Could Someone Please Explain

One of the things that I am really, really not getting about the right-wing freak-out over John McCain is how they have managed to COMPLETELY convince themselves that McCain is not a real conservative, yet Mitt Romney is a bonafide conservative. Mark Levin:

Let’s face it, none of the candidates are perfect. They never are. But McCain is the least perfect of the viable candidates. The only one left standing who can honestly be said to share most of our conservative principles is Mitt Romney. I say this as someone who has not been an active Romney supporter. If conservatives don’t unite behind Romney at this stage, and become vocal in their support for him, then they will get McCain as their Republican nominee and probably a Democrat president. And in either case, we will have a deeply flawed president.

For as long as I can remember, McCain has been anti-abortion, for fiscal conservatism and balanced budgets and against wasteful spending, and an avowed and committed hawk and ardent military supporter. By my count, that is, or at least used to be, the trinity for the modern GOP. Those were the issues that, at a glance, defined conservatism, and McCain was on the “right” side of every one of them. Mitt Romney, not so much.

So how is it that these lunatics have so completely convinced themselves that Romney, who will say ANYTHING to get elected, is the actual conservative? It is becoming clearer and clearer that Mitt Romney is little more than the Manchurian Candidate for the oligarchy, and the notion of their puppet figure losing to someone who will occasionally tell them to go fuck themselves has them in a real tizzy.

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246 replies
  1. 1
    cleek says:

    shhh! not so loud!

    don’t make them reconsider!

  2. 2
    Wilfred says:

    It is becoming clearer and clearer that Mitt Romney is little more than the Manchurian Candidate for the oligarchy,

    That’s perfect, John – better copyright that one fast.

  3. 3
    Grand Moff Texan says:

    These are the people who thought George Bush was the next Churchill. You expect this shit to make sense?

    Some crackwhores babble on buses. Others write for the National Review.
    .

  4. 4
    rawshark says:

    So how is it that these lunatics have so completely convinced themselves that Romney, who will say ANYTHING to get elected, is the actual conservative?

    You answered your own question. Its about winning and Mittens will do or say anything to get elected. They respect that kind of mental illness. Plus since Mitt is one of the rich who has been receiving handouts these past years so its likely he’ll continue them. Balanced budgets? Its one of the drugs the republicans feed us to make us think they give a crap about the peasant classes. That’s why regular folks like McCain but inner party members like Mittens.

  5. 5
    JGabriel says:

    John Cole:

    One of the things that I am really, really not getting about the right-wing freak-out over John McCain is how they have managed to COMPLETELY convince themselves that McCain is not a real conservative…

    Because real conservatism is about power, and the funding to maintain that power. McCain/Feingold threatened that funding mechanism. Therefore, McCain is not a real conservative.

    QED.

  6. 6
    Zifnab says:

    Bush was a born-again Christian Combat Hero. Iraq is a complete and total victory in the War on Terror. Democrats are ruining our economy by running for office. And Mitt Romney is the only conservative in the race for President.

    Sure, it doesn’t make sense in your head, but in your gut you know its right.

  7. 7
    Jake says:

    Two words: Man. Crush.

    Romney is teh hot, McCain is teh not.

  8. 8
    Ninerdave says:

    is how they have managed to COMPLETELY convince themselves that McCain is not a real conservative, yet Mitt Romney is a bonafide conservative. Mark Levin:

    Because they don’t think, they are simply told what to think. Authoritarianism defined.

  9. 9
    Raenelle says:

    Isn’t a respectful deference to authority part of conservatism? And isn’t the willingness to tell the oligarchy to fuck themselves, even occasionally, evidence of a radical frame of mind. If you can challenge anything, then you can challenge, well, anything. That’s why, for example, the first Great Awakening (c. 1740) was proto-democratic–people looking to themselves for spiritual answers rather than to trained authorities. Conservatives could trust his values, but they rightfully sense that they can’t trust his temperament.

  10. 10
    Nikki says:

    From what I’ve been able to glean on the wingnut intertrons, McCain supports an immigration policy that contains a path to citizenship. Mitt does not. Hence, Mitt gets the conservative bonafides.

  11. 11
    Grumpy Code Monkey says:

    Two words: Man. Crush.

    Romney is teh hot, McCain is teh not.

    We’ve seen enough examples of latent homosexuality among middle-aged Republican men over the last year for this to have some real merit.

  12. 12
    ThymeZone says:

    Well, I am not going to try to analyze the thinking of people who thought Terri Schiavo was one feeding away from finishing her PhD thesis.

    And don’t forget, when it comes to saying anything to get elected, John McCain has a proven track record and has the experience over Romney. McCain has been lying through his teeth to voters for 25 years or so. The man is an ethical train wreck, and he (like Bush, by the way) wants you to confuse stubbornness with character.

  13. 13
    lutton says:

    >>McCain/Feingold

    That and the immigration thing…which cost Mittens the primary in FL. (non-Hispanics evenly split; Hispanics 54% for McCain, 14% for Romney, delivering virtually the entire 95,000 vote margin of difference – http://www.ndnblog.org/node/1846

  14. 14
    kwAwk says:

    The answer is very simple. The definition of ‘Conservative’ in a political sense has been allowed to be corrupted by lazy and imprecise people who think right wing and conservative are synonymous.

    So if fact in their minds ‘conservative’ which should mean resistance to radical change by dictionary terms, now means the opposite in their minds. The more conservative one is now means the more radical change they want, rather than the more resistant to change they are.

    Part of this is the fact that conservatives have been handed their asses repeatedly politically over the past 120 years. Advocating against FDRs reforms was very conservative in 1933. It isn’t conservative to try to reverse FDR in 2008 though. They’re so far behind they think they are ahead as you might say.

  15. 15
    RSA says:

    McCain has been anti-abortion, for fiscal conservatism and balanced budgets and against wasteful spending, and an avowed and committed hawk and ardent military supporter.

    The second is no longer a plank in Republican platform, having been replaced by tax cuts now and tax cuts forever.

    And as others observe, there are a few modern Republican practices McCain has not paid sufficient attention to, at least until recently: kissing up to evangelicals, removing restraints on campaign financing, and preventing brown people from coming in to the country.

  16. 16
    Grumpy Code Monkey says:

    By my count, that is, or at least used to be, the trinity for the modern GOP.

    Except this isn’t the modern GOP; this is the post-modern GOP, and their trinity is xenophobia, paranoia, and dissembling.

  17. 17

    About the only way I’ve ever seen McCain not be conservative was about 7 years ago when he had the temerity to take on the religious whackjobs in his own party, and he’s spent the last five years trying to make up for that, humiliating himself in ever more degrading acts of obeisance. Not conservative enough? That’s some Grade-A stupid at work there.

  18. 18
    Grand Moff Texan says:

    We’ve seen enough examples of latent homosexuality among middle-aged Republican men over the last year for this to have some real merit.

    And they really don’t relish the thought of having to take McCain’s diaper off before … you know.

    *

    Mmmmmm … relish!
    .

  19. 19
    Zifnab says:

    What is amazing me is that Romney isn’t winning despite all the screaming and whining and nashing of teeth from the DC punditry. The Republican party base just isn’t getting in line like it is supposed to do.

    I can only hope and pray that we will see primary roll voter purges and suppression tactics used against those uppity independents and liberals that keep casting their hats to McCain. Nothing builds a party like a big kick in the ass to new members.

  20. 20
    LiberalTarian says:

    JC, if you can figure out what the hell gone wrong in the Republican party you can probably solve all the Middle East crises.

    Good luck with that.

  21. 21
    jenniebee says:

    Goldwater Republicans are like, so pre-1980. And McCain is a Goldwater Republican, no matter how much he tries to make nice with the movementarians.

  22. 22
    Faux News says:

    We already scrapped off 911iulian’s face from the Victory Gin bottle. Hopefully after next Tuesday we can scrape off either Mitten’s or Walnut’s (McCain)face off of the gin bottle.

    Doubleplusgood that.

  23. 23
    TLB says:

    Is there another candidate besides McCain who’d do something like this? A staff member doing outreach to U.S. voters on McCain’s behalf is a dual citizen who’s a former top official with a foreign government. So, perhaps it’s because of things like that.

  24. 24
    just sayin' says:

    The mistake you’re making is taking their arguments at face value. When they say “Conservative” they don’t mean “a person who adheres to conservative principles as traditionally understood,” they mean “the person our power structure wants to win.” Bush was a “Christian” in the same way. They objected to Bill Clinton’s marital foolishness with the same level of sincerity.

    It’s been said before – someone needs to explain to them that 1984 wasn’t supposed to be an ideal to aspire to.

  25. 25
    NonyNony says:

    What is amazing me is that Romney isn’t winning despite all the screaming and whining and nashing of teeth from the DC punditry. The Republican party base just isn’t getting in line like it is supposed to do.

    What? The “base” was supposed to line up and vote for a slick, flip-flopping, rich, pretty-boy politician from Taxachusetts? In what UNIVERSE was this supposed to happen? They pre-crucified Mittens in 2004 when John Kerry was running – as far as the “base” is concerned they might as well be the same person. And Hell – the most “reliable” voting block of the base considers his religion to be a “cult” – not the case you want to make to those “values voters.”

    Making a U-turn that tight was going to take more cognitive dissonance than even the GOP base is capable of mustering – and I don’t make that claim lightly.

    McCain is all they got left. What actually surprises ME is that the right-wing pundits haven’t seen the writing on the wall and aren’t scheduling meetings with ole Straight Talk to prostrate themselves and his is ring (or ass, or whatever he wants kissed) and beg for forgiveness for speaking out against them. Because Straight Talk is known for a couple of things in DC, and a volatile temper and the ability to hold a grudge for a loooong time are near the top of the list.

  26. 26
    Dread says:

    Pretty simple:

    1. McCain thinks maybe we shouldn’t round up and shoot the Mexicans.

    2. McCain thinks maybe a great society shouldn’t have to resort to torture.

    3. McCain forged a deal on judges that let Bush get mostly what he wanted while weeding out some of the real whack jobs and hacks. But, you know, denying the president anything means your scummy Nazi librul slimewad.

  27. 27
    Caidence (fmr. Chris) says:

    Could Someone Please Explain

    how they have managed to COMPLETELY convince themselves that McCain is not a real conservative

    Because these people have led themselves to believe that “conservative” means whatever they want.

    They think conservatism is relative to what they want or what the people they don’t like want. They don’t believe it has anything to do with philosophies of years past.

  28. 28
    RSA says:

    Goldwater Republicans are like, so pre-1980.

    Good point. I think even an reincarnated Ronald Reagan might have a tough time getting the nomination these days. He had the “right” views on drugs, race, welfare, immigration, and religion, but he did raise taxes and had some fishy results with appointments to the Supreme Court. . .

  29. 29
    TR says:

    Because real conservatism is about power, and the funding to maintain that power. McCain/Feingold threatened that funding mechanism. Therefore, McCain is not a real conservative.

    Exactly. McCain is solid on the issues, but he threatened to bring down the moneymen who control the movement and that’s all that mattered. Rush and company were given their marching orders, and the sheep fell in line.

  30. 30

    “Fiscal Conservatism” hasn’t been a plank of the Republican party for years. Certainly not since George Bush II came into office and not really before that either. Oh sure, they still give it lip service (laughingly), but its really been replaced by the the “Lower Taxes” principle.

    The Republican party is obsessed with taxes. Cutting them is ALWAYS the solution to every problem. McCain opposed tax cuts. Therefore he is not a Republican (at least in the eyes of the modern GOP)

  31. 31
    Ned Raggett says:

    Actually, this post over at the Corner might be the funniest one yet. It says so much.

  32. 32
  33. 33

    @Zifnab:

    I can only hope and pray that we will see primary roll voter purges and suppression tactics used against those uppity independents and liberals that keep casting their hats to McCain. Nothing builds a party like a big kick in the ass to new members.

    Of course! How could I have been so blind? It’s plainly the substantial illegal vote, all those illegals risking deportation so that they can come out and propel McCain to victory.

    Better clamp down on that, GOP. Maybe you can disenfranchise masses of primary voters, reminding them of what you stand for in plenty of time for the general election.

    Man, that would remind me of the Alabama Democrats’ stupidity in the 1986 Bill Baxley-Charlie Graddick mess that taught Alabamans they could vote Republican without the world caving in.

  34. 34
    Jake says:

    I also have to wonder, and I’m only wanking and hacking here but when I think of the average fRightWingy, one thing that doesn’t come to mind is Military Service.

    I haven’t seen a whole lot of respect for people who have served in the military from WingerVille so I suspect McCain is regarded as too stupid (or alarming or brave) for comfort. They want a guy who can talk tough but isn’t actually tough.

  35. 35
    Neal says:

    Ronnie Reagan wouldn’t get elected in the modern GOP. They’ve turned him into a myth.
    Let’s see…

    He signed the Therapeutic Abortion Act in California as governor. He essentially legalized abortion. Baby killer.
    Supreme Court? They’d cry foul over O’Connor. We saw that at the debate the other night.
    Signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act as president.
    His wife is pro stem cell research.
    He sold arms to IRAN!
    He was divorced!

    Honestly, they think McCain’s bad, they should look up that Reagan fella.

  36. 36
  37. 37
    Rld says:

    I think this, from The Corner, explains it best.

    “Summed Up In A Phrase [John Hood]
    For those who don’t comprehend why many conservatives are so hostile to John McCain, I’d call their attention to how The Wall Street Journal quoted him today, in response to Mitt Romney touting his business credentials:

    “I did not manage, I led … And I didn’t manage for profit, I led for patriotism.”

    McCain can certainly sound fiscally conservative when he wants to, but this is a revealing quote. At his core, McCain just doesn’t display much of an affinity for free-market capitalism. He thinks government service is far more noble, more socially beneficial, than serving one’s fellow man through creating economic value in the marketplace. He’s wrong, importantly wrong, and it’s that kind of sentiment, coupled with his record, that makes a good chunk of the GOP coalition nervous and distrustful.”

  38. 38
    The Other Steve says:

    So how is it that these lunatics have so completely convinced themselves that Romney, who will say ANYTHING to get elected, is the actual conservative?

    Reminds me of the people who thought John Edwards was an actual liberal.

  39. 39
    eastriver says:

    Now Playing at the Presidential Multiplex…

    Alvin and the Chipmunks, featuring Dennis Kusinich

    No Country For Old Men, featuring John McCain

    There Will Be Blood, featuring Hillary Clinton

    Over Her Dead Body, featuring Barack Obama

    Atonement, featuring Bill Clinton

    Sweeney Todd, featuring Rudy Giuliani (also seen in 27 Dresses)

    Mad Money, featuring Ron Paul

    First Sunday, featuring Mike Huckabee

    Juno, featuring John Edwards

  40. 40
    Pb says:

    They think conservatism is relative to what they want or what the people they don’t like want.

    Ding, ding, ding!

    Shorter McCain: I’d like to do whatever I want, but there are still a few laws and stuff I have to follow, even as President.

    Shorter Romney: As President, I can do whatever I want!

    Thus, Romney is the real “conservative” in the race, following in Bush’s footsteps.

    …and thank you very much Cyrus, for linking to that Boston Globe survey earlier…

  41. 41
    MJ says:

    Jonah Goldberg and Victor Davis Hanson both address some of this at The Corner.
    So not everybody on the right is freaking out over McCain.

    McCain has done a fair amount to piss off the right wing establishment over the years. Although he’s solid on a lot of the important issues they aren’t so quick to forgive his past transgressions. Assuming McCain wins the nomination and if Hillary wins the nomination for the Dems, the Clinton hate syndrome will kick in too. The idea of Hillary being in the oval office for 4 or 8 years I think will be enough for them to back McCain and not stay home or back a third party candidate.

  42. 42
    qwerty42 says:

    There seems to be a kind of hysteria that those voting in the Republican primaries are not following their instructions. It’s almost a mutiny (maybe something along the lines of the scene in Dr Zhivago when the replacements encounter the regulars who are “voting with their feet” to leave the front). At any rate, McCain is being called all sorts of really odd things (“liberal” — really?). This will pass. they will need to issue new orders to their followers to do whatever they were going to do anyway. the end of empire is hard.

  43. 43
    Dreggas says:

    So how is it that these lunatics have so completely convinced themselves that Romney, who will say ANYTHING to get elected, is the actual conservative?

    You answered your own question. What you forget is that to be a conservative these days means you must suck the collective cock of the punditocracy and kiss Heir Bush’s ring. McCain, while doing the latter woudln’t do the former. Therefore since he won’t do anything and say anything to be elected he is not a conservative.

  44. 44
    crw says:

    By my count, that is, or at least used to be, the trinity for the modern GOP.

    Silly John, modern conservatism is now about torturing brown people, antagonizing libruls, cuttin’ taxes no matter what, and using the Old Testament as our law book. Or did you forget why you’re no longer a Republican?

    See, Jonny Mac’s real flaw is he actually wants government to work effectively at a few things, and he’s willing to talk to..gasp…Democrats if that’s what it takes. Modern conservatives just can’t abide that, because it would completely eliminate their raison d’etre.

  45. 45
    JGabriel says:

    Faux News:

    We already scrapped off 911iulian’s face from the Victory Gin bottle. Hopefully after next Tuesday we can scrape off either Mitten’s or Walnut’s (McCain)face off of the gin bottle.

    Why would we want that? Think about it.

    The more time Mittens and St. John face off, the more money they spend and the more damage they do to each other before the general election. And the more fractured the Republicans become. Because, when you’re always right, it’s treason to vote for the other guy.

    Also, how much fun is it watching Mittens spend his kids and grandkids inheritence? I mean, seriously, that never gets old.

  46. 46
    Jen says:

    George W. Bush moved the party leftward and/or damaged the image of the GOP in many respects precisely because he was given the benefit of the doubt by conservatives who saw him as “one of us.”

    Jonah Goldberg. Wrong about every fucking thing in the universe.

  47. 47
    MJ says:

    Jonah Goldberg. Wrong about every fucking thing in the universe.

    So then you feel that George W. Bush didn’t damaged the image of the GOP in many respects?

  48. 48
    Jen says:

    [Godwin warning, but justified because never has an argument been made in such detail or with such care.]

    I would say that is true in the same sense that Hitler damaged the image of the Nazis in many respects.

    Indeed, that is central to my point.

    The Doughy Pantload is just a gift that keeps on giving, ain’t he?

  49. 49
    Garrigus Carraig says:

    This struck me:

    If conservatives don’t unite behind Romney at this stage, and become vocal in their support for him, then they will get McCain as their Republican nominee and probably a Democrat president.

    That doesn’t sound right. Not that polling is everything, but Rasmussen has Walnuts beating Hillary and the Pony. It’s certainly possible. Grumble.

  50. 50
    Svensker says:

    McCain is a fascist, always has been. In policies, except for torture, he’s no different than Georgie. Some “conservatives” don’t like him cuz he’s against torture, but otherwise, I don’t get the beef. He loves big government when its helping rich people and big business, not so much if it’s doing something for middle class or poor, he loves war, and he’s perfectly OK with getting rid of the constitution except for the 2nd amendment — isn’t that pretty much “conservatism”‘s new face? Oh, forgot, anti-abortion and not too fond of teh gay, either.

    If one of the right wingers could explain the difference between Bush and McCain — and why they LOVE the one and HATE the other — I’d be very curious.

  51. 51
    Caidence (fmr. Chris) says:

    Did anyone else read that Levin article John posted? MY GOD WHAT A TODDLER!

    Shorter Levin: Don’t vote for McCain! He has contempt for Romney!!

    I kid you not. Read the article.

    Longer Levin: Don’t vote for McCain! He has contempt for Romney!

    He put out attack ads on him!

    He panders to POOR people, even though he’s rich! A

    nd he made bi-partisan bills! And he was in the Gang-of-14, stopping us from rewriting the rules on filibusters to favor the Republican party!

    He believes in rule of law. Can anyone say ACLU??

    Yes, he supported the Surge. But he wasn’t loud enough when Bill Clinton cut defense spending!

    People say the independents vote for him. They show polls. Ignore the polls! They mean nothing! They’re wrong! You know how I know?? Nancy Pelosi is the Speaker of the House! How did THAT happen? Because the Republicans didn’t care to vote in their own Speaker!!

  52. 52
    JGabriel says:

    Ok, I don’t like McCain, but even I will say that this is ridiculous.

    Svensker:

    McCain is a fascist, always has been. In policies, except for torture…

    That’s a pretty big exception there. Fascism’s pro-torture bent, whether through the state or party-affiliated thugs, is de riguer definitional of fascism. Nor does he have an immigration stance that appeals to bigotry or calls for ‘purity’.

    McCain’s definitely conservative, a warmongerer, and authoritarian, but let’s save the ‘fascism’ or ‘proto-fascism’ tag for the people who really deserve it.

  53. 53
    Cassidy says:

    who will say ANYTHING to get elected, is the actual conservative?

    Just answered you’re own question.

  54. 54
    JC says:

    Did you guys see the Coulter freakout?

    Insane. The Clintons are radical communists liberal killers…and McCain is worse.

    Unbelievable.

  55. 55
    p.lukasiak says:

    One of the reasons that McCain is so despised by the right is that he dared to question Dear Leader on a number of issues — like torture, Iraq policy, etc. The fact that his votes never swayed from the Rubber Stamp format doesn’t matter — McCain became the “liberal media’s” poster boy for Republican apostasy.

    Rudy was slated to be the “conservative” candidate, but he ran into stiff opposition from the Christian Supremacists. So, out of thin air, Fred Thompson was created as the conservative savior. Unfortunately, it turns out that as an actor, Fred Thompson never delivered a long speech (without cutaways) in his life, never acted on stage, and never did any improvisation — and what voters got in the real “Fred Thompson” was so remote from their image of him that within days of his entering the campaign, his polling numbers started to go down. Then Huckabee emerged as a genuine Christian Supremacist, and Thompson was over.

    Mitt is all they have left. McCain is an apostate, and Huckabee shows signs of governing like a real Christian (taking care of the poor and all that), so Mitt is it!

  56. 56
    Faux News says:

    Also, how much fun is it watching Mittens spend his kids and grandkids inheritence? I mean, seriously, that never gets old.

    Excellent point JG. I never even thought of that. Didn’t Mittens just write himself a check for $18 mil?

  57. 57
    Zifnab says:

    Did you guys see the Coulter freakout?

    Insane. The Clintons are radical communists liberal killers…and McCain is worse.

    Unbelievable.

    At least she’s not voting 3rd Party. I think I would lose faith in the 3rd Party system.

  58. 58
    Jen says:

    Salon:

    First, there was an e-mail from former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney’s campaign, trumpeting the news that “Romney for President totals over $27 million in total receipts for the fourth quarter.” Now, that sounds pretty good, and in any other election it would have been, but keep in mind that Obama took in $5 million more than that just in January. (To be fair, given the actual action in primaries in January, we’re not really comparing apples with apples here.) The number is also much less impressive once you get past the headline and discover who Romney’s biggest contributor was — namely, one Mitt Romney. In fact, of the $27 million Romney’s campaign is claiming, $18 million came directly from Romney’s own pocket; only $9 million was from actual contributions.

    He’s the conservative choice, he got $9mil for the *quarter*, and Obama got $32mil in January.
    Go, pony, go.

  59. 59
    MJ says:

    Non sequiturs and bad nazi/fascist comparisons isn’t really a gift Jen but some just keep on with the giving it. For the intellectually lazy it might be red meat.

  60. 60
    JGabriel says:

    Did I miss a memo? When did people start calling Obama ‘Pony’? Why?

  61. 61
    Jen says:

    For the intellectually lazy it might be red meat.

    Are you, sir, calling the Doughy Pantload intellectually lazy?

    Seriously, either devote yourself full-time to trolling so you can give it what it deserves, or drop out of the race. You’re kind of embarrassing yourself.

  62. 62
    Caidence (fmr. Chris) says:

    Did I miss a memo? When did people start calling Obama ‘Pony’? Why?

    Apparently you did. It means you haven’t been checking this site every 5 minutes, begging for threads to yap at each other in.

    I’m not going to tell you what it’s about, because I’m a pathetic individual and I like knowing something you don’t.

    Also, it’s dumb.

    And the pony I’m riding on tells me not to tell you. I dunno why, but I don’t question the Pony.

  63. 63
    MJ says:

    Jen do you expect praise for your astounding jack ass posts? Calling me a troll doesn’t improve them.

  64. 64
    Caidence (fmr. Chris) says:

    begging for threads to yap at each other in.

    Apparently, you have multiple personalities that argue (yap) at each other.

    I dunno how I knew this.

  65. 65
    les says:

    So how is it that these lunatics have so completely convinced themselves that Romney, who will say ANYTHING to get elected, is the actual conservative?

    Not to bandwagon too much, but what’s the surprise? That’s the definition of modern American conservatism.

  66. 66
    myiq2xu says:

    One problem for the modern GOP is that authoritarianism doesn’t deal well with succession. It usually only takes place when the top guy dies (with or without “assistance”) and almost always is accompanied by purges.

    After Lenin’s death Trotsky fled Russia but they still hunted him down and killed him in Mexico.

    Another problem is that rigidity of thinking and moral certitude. Crtitical thinking isn’t a highly regarded quality in Wingnuttia.

    It can’t be “conservatism” that failed, it had to be individual conservatives. And since you can’t be “too conservative” then the failure is due to not being conservative enough.

    The funny thing is that McCain is an old-fashioned Goldwater-conservative. Even Ronnie Raygun raised taxes, compromised with Democrats and made deals with the Communists.

    There is a word for what’s going on in the GOP.

    Schadenfreude

  67. 67
    tBone says:

    George W. Bush moved the party leftward and/or damaged the image of the GOP in many respects precisely because he was given the benefit of the doubt by conservatives who saw him as “one of us.”

    Shorter Pantload: no matter how fucking stupid and/or shameless you already thought I was, I will always manage to surprise you.

  68. 68
    shaker o salt says:

    Well, because wingnuts are not generally known as the “reality-based” community, John.

    I think the right-wing freak out is hilarious, the gift that keeps on giving.

    What’s really funny is these people still think they have any kind of influence.

  69. 69
  70. 70
    Jen says:

    Jen do you expect praise for your astounding jack ass posts? Calling me a troll doesn’t improve them.

    You’re new at this, aren’t you?

  71. 71
    gypsy howell says:

    When did people start calling Obama ‘Pony’? Why?

    Reference to the Magical Unity Pony that Obama is riding into town.

  72. 72
    Stoic says:

    What is it that they say about Authoritarian Followers? As long as their Dear Leader says exactly what they want to hear they’ll follow him even if they suspect (or know) he’s lying to them.

  73. 73
    myiq2xu says:

    From what I’ve been able to glean on the wingnut intertrons, McCain supports an immigration policy that contains a path to citizenship. Mitt does not. Hence, Mitt gets the conservative bonafides.

    Who was it that signed the last immigration reform bill? the one that gave a bunch of illegals undocumented aliens amnesty?

    St. Ronnie

    Another fact for the memory hole.

  74. 74
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    This just points out the bind that Republicans are in. They have to go through the entire campaign without mentioning the name “Bush” (Neither 41 or 43) instead, they must back through time to “Inherit the Mantle of Ronald Reagan.” While doing this they can in no way advocate anything other than the failed policies of Bush 43 – a President whom all but 28% of America views as a dismal failure.

    It must be like being seasick and having lockjaw at the same time.

  75. 75
    Jen says:

    JGabriel, are you on the pony? Caidence is, but he keeps skipping a groove so I’m not sure he’s going to make it. Myiq is fighting the pony and the rest of us are fighting him. JC is snarky about the pony but he is secretly on it. Punchy, sadly, hasn’t been seen all day. That’s pretty much where we are right now.

  76. 76
    Stoic says:

    Heh, Glenn Greenwald wrote about John Dean’s book, Conservatives Without Conscience…

    “Dean contends, and amply documents, that the “conservative” movement has become, at its core, an authoritarian movement composed of those with a psychological and emotional need to follow a strong authority figure which provides them a sense of moral clarity and a feeling of individual power, the absence of which creates fear and insecurity in the individuals who crave it. By definition, its followers’ devotion to authority and the movement’s own power is supreme, thereby overriding the consciences of its individual members and removing any intellectual and moral limits on what will be justified in defense of their movement….”

    McCain may be a crazy fucker, but he’s has moments of independent thinking which makes him dangerous to the movement.

  77. 77
    myiq2xu says:

    Myiq is fighting the pony and the rest of us are fighting him.

    Real ponies don’t oink or wear lipstick

  78. 78
    Stoic says:

    Oooops, forgot to close the tag.

  79. 79
    Jen says:

    Real ponies

    It isn’t a real pony, it’s a magical unity pony, remember? He transcends lipstick.

  80. 80
    OxyCon says:

    Leftists are embracing Obama because he says he will play nice with the Repubs and we can all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
    While right wingers hate McCain’s guts because he dared to actually reach across the aisle once or twice.
    See what Obama is in for? As soon as he tries to play nice with the Repubs, they are going to hand him his ass on a platter.

  81. 81
    Zifnab says:

    See, I used to think that Republicans really did have a visceral, unexplainable, deep-seated hatred of Hillary Clinton. But after Coulter’s non-endorsement endorsement, I get the feeling that the entire party has jumped the shark. The Republican Establishment endorsing Hillary Clinton over John McCain would be the equivalent of the Nazi Party endorsing Jon Stewart over Tom Tancredo.

    After literally decades of angst and grief over how horrible a person Clinton is and how terrible she would be for the country, to turn and claim the runner-up for Republican President in 2000 is worse than the Party Appointed Boogywoman absolutely has to make rank-and-file Republican heads explode. How do you take anything anyone in the establishment says seriously anymore?

  82. 82
    myiq2xu says:

    Leftists are embracing Obama because he says he will play nice with the Repubs and we can all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
    While right wingers hate McCain’s guts because he dared to actually reach across the aisle once or twice.
    See what Obama is in for? As soon as he tries to play nice with the Repubs, they are going to hand him his ass on a platter.

    Careful with that talk, they’ll call you a Hill-Troll.

  83. 83
    Jen says:

    I have a novel theory about Mann Coulter. I think that she, in some way, is interested in media publicity focused upon herself. I think that some of the things she says just might be calculated to be outrageous so that people will pay attention to her. And that once she has run out of outrageous things to the right, she works her backwards so that the contradictions become outrageous, because that’s all that’s left.

    It is sure to be a controversial, revisionist, theory, but indeed, that is central to my point.

  84. 84
    JGabriel says:

    Gypsy Howell:

    Reference to the Magical Unity Pony that Obama is riding into town.

    Thanks, GP.

    Umm, not to get all super-sensitive here, but there are potential racial connotations in calling a black man ‘Pony’.

    Y’all might want to reconsider that meme.

    (And, no, I didn’t see any racist intent in the way people were using it, and I’m not calling anyone a racist. JC’s original post was clearly derived from Atrios’s awarding a pony every time Bush’s approval ratings sink. But when you separate it from the original context, there could be misinterpretations. Just a suggestion.)

  85. 85
    Neal says:

    myiq2xu, I did a post up there about Ronnie. It’s amazing how much he did and was that would be anathema to these wingnuts. Kinda funny really. Abortion, immigration, supreme court, you name it.

    As for me, I’m a Ponyboy. I love the pony. I can’t quit him.

  86. 86
    NonyNony says:

    JGabriel –

    Also, how much fun is it watching Mittens spend his kids and grandkids inheritence? I mean, seriously, that never gets old.

    Ayup. But, on the bright side, if he spends it all on advertising for a failed presidential run then his kids won’t have to worry about that skeeery “Death Tax” that the Republicans are so afraid of.

    And, as a bonus, he’s apparently stimulating the economy! The more money he spends the better off we all are, or so I’ve been told. So SPEND, MITT! SPEND!

  87. 87
    Jen says:

    The Repubs cannot find their own ass at this point. Finding and severing anyone else’s ass is far beyond their capabilities.

    This is not to say that McCain might not beat either Hillary or Obama, because he very well might. But it will not be due to the competence and might of the 2008 Republican party.

  88. 88
    Neal says:

    Christ, JGabriel, it’s funny.

  89. 89
    Jen says:

    Yeah, if the Balloon Juice Commentariat got the kind of press that the Big Dog gets, I might worry about the pony name.

    No, wait, I wouldn’t.

  90. 90
    myiq2xu says:

    One of the things that I am really, really not getting about the right-wing freak-out over John McCain is how they have managed to COMPLETELY convince themselves that McCain is not a real conservative, yet Mitt Romney is a bonafide conservative.

    This kind of thing wouldn’t happen on the left would it?

    Hillary has enemies on the left because they think she’s too conservative.

    So they support Obama because he will reach out to conservatives to bring about bipartisan unity.

    2008 – The Year of Cognitive Dissonance

  91. 91
    Andrew says:

    We’ve seen enough examples of latent homosexuality among middle-aged Republican men over the last year for this to have some real merit.

    Latent? I think you mean actual man-whore and underage boy sexing, with bonus wetsuit-dildo fetishes.

  92. 92
    JGabriel says:

    Christ, JGabriel, it’s funny.

    Just a suggestion, Neal. Think about it. How would you feel if you were a black man, and a white man called you ‘Pony’?

  93. 93
    Neal says:

    Magical Unity Pony – Racist.
    Clinton Derangement – Sexist.
    Disagreement with AIPAC/Israel – Anti-semitic.
    Thinking that lady from NOW that freaked out on Ted Kennedy is batshit insane – Sexist.

    You see what I’m getting at?

    Sometimes the liberal thought-police really irritates me.

  94. 94
    HyperIon says:

    MJ Says:

    Jonah Goldberg and Victor Davis Hanson both address some of this at The Corner.

    so i went and read….

    JG: It’s not obvious to me that having a more transactional relationship with a Republican president would be altogether bad for the country, the party or the conservative movement.

    so WTF does this mean? transactional?

    and VDH:
    If McCain gets the nomination, I would have to believe that the Republican sit-out would only last midsummer until they could not take Sen. Clinton no more, and thus like Lancelot at Camlan belatedly enter the fray.

    Grammar error (not take…no more) and lousy punctuation (and thus COMMA like Lancelot at Camlan COMMA) aside, he still manages to work in an obscure reference that no one will get until they google Camlan. what a tool.

  95. 95
    Jen says:

    We’re not calling him a pony. We’re saying that he has a Magical Unity Pony. It has also sometimes been called a unicorn, but that’s not a phallic thing so don’t feel inferior. And I’m going to go out on a limb and say that if Barack Obama were to take offense at his admirers on a third tier blog saying he has a Magical Unity Pony, well, he may not be ready for campaign season with either Hillary or the Republicans after all.

    Okay, myiq, you don’t have to read my links, but here’s one person’s interpretation of what you were talking about:

    Obama makes a distinction between bad-faith, implacable enemies (lobbyists, entrenched interests, “operatives”) and good-faith ideological opponents (Republicans, independents and conservatives of good conscience). He wants to court the latter and use their support to vanquish the former. This may be improbable, but it crucially allows former Republicans (Obama Republicans?) to cross over without guilt or self-loathing. They are not asked to renounce, only to join.

  96. 96
    Neal says:

    I like ponies. I just called myself ponyboy up there.

    Dropping the N-bomb? Not cool at all.
    Pony? I’m not seeing it.
    Maybe I’m ignorant here.
    Jen? Help me? Anyone?

  97. 97
    myiq2xu says:

    It is sure to be a controversial, revisionist, theory, but indeed, that is central to my point.

    Stephen Colbert made comments indicating he thinks her schtick is basically satire that the wingnuts don’t get.

    I sometimes wonder if O’Reilly and Limbaugh are more “personas” (or spoofs as TZ calls them) rather than true believers. It sure has been profitible for them.

    Dennis Miller has tried to cash in by joining them, but he just can’t get his head around it. His brand of humor depends on pointing out the absurdity, not defending it.

  98. 98
    t jasper parnell says:

    Santorum says
    :

    Well, number one, John McCain will not get the base of the Republican Party. I mean, there was a reason John McCain collapsed last year, and it’s because he was the frontrunner, and everybody in the Republican Party got a chance to look at him. And when they looked at him, they wait well, wait a minute, he’s not with us on almost all of the core issues of…on the economic side, he was against the President’s tax cuts, he was bad on immigration. On the environment, he’s absolutely terrible. He buys into the complete left wing environmentalist movement in this country. He is for bigger government on a whole laundry list of issues. He was…I mean, on medical care, I mean, he was for re-importation of drugs. I mean, you can go on down the list. I mean, this is a guy who on a lot of the core economic issues, is not even close to being a moderate, in my opinion. And then on the issue of, on social conservative issues,
    you point to me one time John McCain every took the floor of the United States Senate to talk about a social conservative issue. It never happened. I mean, this is a guy who says he believes in these things, but I can tell you, inside the room, when we were in these meetings, there was nobody who fought harder not to have these votes before the United States Senate on some of the most important social conservative issues, whether it’s marriage or abortion or the like. He always fought against us to even bring them up, because he was uncomfortable voting for them. So I mean, this is just not a guy I think in the end that washes with the mainstream of the Republican Party.

  99. 99
    Ned Raggett says:

    Best yet on the Corner today!

    One problem Romney has, which I was acutely aware of the other night, is that he comes off just a bit too effete.

    If only he weren’t the gay.

  100. 100
    Jen says:

    A Magical Unity *Zebra*, that would be problematic.

  101. 101
    myiq2xu says:

    Umm, not to get all super-sensitive here, but there are potential racial connotations in calling a black man ‘Pony’.

    Are you implying that black men are hung like . . .um, ponies?

  102. 102
    JGabriel says:

    Jen:

    Yeah, if the Balloon Juice Commentariat got the kind of press that the Big Dog gets, I might worry about the pony name.

    Look, when a girlfriend calls me ‘pony’ or compares me to a horse, it’s pretty flattering. But if someone not a ‘significant other’ called me that, I’d be perplexed at the least, and, depending on the context, possibly offended.

    Using ‘pony’ as a meme for unity politics *is* funny, and I’m not complaining about that.

    But when it migrates from that to becoming a metononym for Obama himself, especially to an audience that might not be aware of the metononymic origin, you risk offense.

    Franly, I think only moron would be unable to understand or concede that point.

  103. 103
    JGabriel says:

    Jen:

    We’re not calling him a pony. We’re saying that he has a Magical Unity Pony.

    Once more, just to be clear, I don’t have a problem with that.

    But I see it migrating into a nickname for Obama himself – you’ve done it in this very thread, Jen – and it’s not cool.

  104. 104
    Jen says:

    Well, as soon as Obama tells me that it’s not cool, I’ll stop.

    Until then, I’ll assume he is sufficiently thick-skinned to cope with bizarre mythical ponies discussed on a blog he never looks at by people with nothing better to do.

  105. 105
    Jen says:

    And sometimes? A pony is just a pony.

  106. 106
    HyperIon says:

    JGabriel,
    I am unfamiliar with the negative connotations of “pony”. could you please elaborate?

    and metononym? please explain because google says:

    Your search – metononym – did not match any documents.

    Franly I am confused.

  107. 107
    myiq2xu says:

    They are not asked to renounce, only to join.

    Since when did Hillary demand that everyone denounce the GOP?

    They hate her, not the other way around.

    And as of yesterday, the official wingnut meme is that Obama is more liberal the Hillary.

    I’m sure that if he is elected the wingnuts will forget all that Barack HUSSEIN OSAMA stuff and start singing Kumbayah.

  108. 108
    NonyNony says:

    Stephen Colbert made comments indicating he thinks her schtick is basically satire that the wingnuts don’t get.

    I sometimes wonder if O’Reilly and Limbaugh are more “personas” (or spoofs as TZ calls them) rather than true believers. It sure has been profitible for them.

    Coulter – possibly. I’ve long thought that she was some “performance artist” who started up a schtick long ago and found herself trapped in it. Bill Maher has made some comments that make me think she might have at least started it as a schtick anyway.

    Limbaugh – he’s not a true believer in anyone but Rush H. Limbaugh and his Rush H. Limbaugh Media Empire (TM). He latched onto the conservative gasbag thing back in the 80s when he realized there was an under-served market for conservative gasbags on the radio. Now, he’s a true believer in the pieces of the Republican plank that intersect with his own goals (he likes those tax cuts, for example), but his allegiance is to his own narcissitic ass and his wallet more than any ideology.

    O’Reilly, OTOH, seems to be authentic. His mouth moves faster than he can think, and his beliefs are that bizarre meld of things that have come to be the trademarks of “post-Reagan conservatism” (e.g. “I got mine so FU”, “Get the government out of my gun cabinet and into your bedroom”, “No regulations on businesses ever, except for the ones that I think should be regulated”, etc.), but he actually seems to have beliefs. Unlike the other two who seem to just have self-interest and a schtick.

  109. 109
    JGabriel says:

    Jen:

    Well, as soon as Obama tells me that it’s not cool, I’ll stop.

    Your call. I’m just suggesting to you that it’s open to misinterpretation.

  110. 110
    Jen says:

    But when it migrates from that to becoming a metononym for Obama himself, especially to an audience that might not be aware of the metononymic origin, you risk offense.

    Franly, I think only moron would be unable to understand or concede that point.

    But, thanks for sucking all the fun out of the room and calling us morons at the same time. Personally, I don’t use as a guiding principle for humor whether or not the intended audience will be aware of the [whatever that word means] origin of words that I didn’t even come up with means.

    I don’t know if you’d find “offensensitivity” in google either, but it’s from Bloom County.

  111. 111
    myiq2xu says:

    and metononym? please explain because google says:

    Try “metonymy” on wiki

  112. 112
    JGabriel says:

    HyperIon:

    JGabriel, I am unfamiliar with the negative connotations of “pony”. could you please elaborate?

    It could be seen as playing on the stereotype of the ‘well-hung black man’.

    and metononym? please explain

    Here’s a definition from a glossary of poetry terms:

    Metonymy: A figure of speech in which one word is substituted for another with which it is closely associated. For example, in the expression The pen is mightier than the sword, the word pen is used for “the written word,” and sword is used for “military power.”

    Still confused?

    Do you need to have anything else spelled out for you?

  113. 113
    Grumpy Code Monkey says:

    Just had a thought about Coulter…

    Imagine if Ann started campaigning for Hillary in earnest. What would be the first thing going through a rational person’s mind?

    “What’s wrong with Hillary that Ann Coulter would support her?”

    Agent provocateur, anyone?

  114. 114
    JGabriel says:

    Jen:

    But, thanks for sucking all the fun out of the room and calling us morons at the same time.

    Sorry, Jen, but I wasn’t the one making an ass of myself by nonchalanty tossing around the term ‘pony’ for a black politician.

    If you want to continue, feel free. As I said, it’s your call.

  115. 115
    NonyNony says:

    Not to detract from the whole discussion on ponies, but apparently Malkin has joined Coulter in saying she “may not” vote for McCain even if he’s up against Clinton.

    I seriously don’t get what they hope to gain out of all of this. Is this the TV pundit equivalent of holding their breaths until they turn blue? Will they bolt and endorse the “Constitution Party” candidate instead of McCain? What the hell is the end-game for these people?

    Or is it just an immense amount of narcissism? Do they believe their own hype and think that if they issue their commands their loyal followers will jump and vote for who they’re told to vote for?

  116. 116
    myiq2xu says:

    O’Reilly, OTOH, seems to be authentic. His mouth moves faster than he can think, and his beliefs are that bizarre meld of things that have come to be the trademarks of “post-Reagan conservatism”

    He isn’t a complete phony (gasbag-yes, but he believes most of what he says) he just plays it up for the audience.

    Watch BillO on Oprah or the Colbert Report and you’ll see him dial down the theatrics and rhetoric.

  117. 117
    Neal says:

    My Pony is sad.

    Anybody ever see that picture on the interweb of the little girl crying and the heading says “NO, YOU CAN’T HAVE A PONY!”? Underneath it shows a picture of a pony and it says: “NOT YOURS!”.

    Yeah, I feel like that little girl right now.

  118. 118
    HyperIon says:

    Do you need to have anything else spelled out for you?

    not spelled out, just spelled correctly.

    It could be seen as playing on the stereotype of the ‘well-hung black man’.

    i suppose it COULD be taken that way. it never would have occured to me.

    thanks for prompt answer.

  119. 119
    merciless says:

    Very interesting thread, thanks everybody. Now one of you smart-aleks out there answer me this, because I really can’t figure this out.

    I read every day how McCain is going to win the presidency, partly because even dead republicans will rise from the grave to vote against Hillary, but also because McCain is so beloved by the mainstream media that they will give him a free ride to the White House.

    I’m not hearing the love. Where’s this invincible msm manlove?

  120. 120
    Jen says:

    There *could* be more tiresome travails down Politically Hypersensitive Boulevard, but I’m having a hard time thinking of them. “Personhole cover”, perhaps? “Chalkboard good, blackboard no”?

    Am I singlehandedly in charge of the snark, now? It’s not 5:00 yet, where are you guys?

  121. 121
    JGabriel says:

    Grumpy Code Monkey:

    Imagine if Ann started campaigning for Hillary in earnest. What would be the first thing going through a rational person’s mind?

    “What’s wrong with Hillary that Ann Coulter would support her?”

    Agent provocateur, anyone?

    Heh. Good one.

    Although I confess to liking Jen’s earlier observation: that Ann Coulter has gone so far to the right, that she needs to go left now to mainain her outrageousness.

  122. 122
    Sasha says:

    But I see it migrating into a nickname for Obama himself – you’ve done it in this very thread, Jen – and it’s not cool.

    Use Pony as a proper noun (capitalized) or the the full name (Magical Unity Pony) and there should be no confusion between it being seen as a nickname as opposed to a comparison to an animal.

  123. 123
    Sasha says:

    But I see it migrating into a nickname for Obama himself – you’ve done it in this very thread, Jen – and it’s not cool.

    Use Pony as a proper noun (capitalized) or the the full name (Magical Unity Pony) and there should be no confusion between it being seen as a nickname as opposed to a comparison to an animal.

  124. 124
    JGabriel says:

    Hyperion:

    thanks for prompt answer.

    Your welcome. Sorry my response was so curt. I was just getting annoyed with being criticized for what seemed, to me, a fairly unobjectionable observation.

  125. 125
    Cassidy says:

    Are you implying that black men are hung like . . .um, ponies?

    They’d be offended you didn’t say horse.

    O’Reilly, OTOH, seems to be authentic. His mouth moves faster than he can think, and his beliefs are that bizarre meld of things that have come to be the trademarks of “post-Reagan conservatism” (e.g. “I got mine so FU”, “Get the government out of my gun cabinet and into your bedroom”, “No regulations on businesses ever, except for the ones that I think should be regulated”, etc.), but he actually seems to have beliefs.

    Give O’Reilly some credit. He’s not into the whole “in your bedroom” thing either. At most, he’s a Libertarian, not a social conservative.

  126. 126
    jcricket says:

    Porch Monkey! I’m taking it back!

    Any racial overtones from calling Obama a magical unity pony is nothing compared to the whole “Canadian” as substitute for “n*gger” thing that the racists down south are apparently doing.

    We lefties just can’t do the code-word, dog-whistle speak as well as the nut jobs on the right. Our heart’s not in it. Steven Colbert and General JC Christian (Patriot) are about the only ones who can really pull it off :-)

    And in the end does it really matter if Coulter, O’Reilly, Savage, Limbaugh and Hannity believe what they say or not? It’s like the “Party” in 1984 or V for Vendetta – with enough power, it doesn’t matter what you do in private, just the damage you do with the power you have to enforce your propaganda. So let’s not give the gasbags any kind of pass because they “might” be different in private.

    They have succeeded at moving the “debate” so far to the right in this country that completely sensible policies (don’t cut taxes without spending cuts, nationalized healthcare is cheaper and better and covers more) are basically “left-wing-nut-job-fantasies”.

    We need to start taking the Republicans at face value and oppose them at all cost. Being partisan is exactly what we need know, because we are right and they are so very, very wrong.

  127. 127
    myiq2xu says:

    Sorry, Jen, but I wasn’t the one making an ass of myself by nonchalanty tossing around the term ‘pony’ for a black politician.

    Let’s all be PC and drop any language in reference to Obama that connotes strength, power or sexuality, especially if associated with animals.

    Jeebus! Is everything racist now?

  128. 128
    Neal says:

    I think it’s here. I’m at work and this PC sucks.

  129. 129
    jcricket says:

    I’m not hearing the love. Where’s this invincible msm manlove?

    You need to go through Bob Somersby’s archives at the Daily Howler. I’m not arguing that St. McCain will get a free ride, but his “independent” and “maverick” labels are far from deserved, yet continue to apply to him in almost every article I read in the MSM.

  130. 130
    Caidence (fmr. Chris) says:

    Caidence is, but he keeps skipping a groove so I’m not sure he’s going to make it. Myiq is fighting the pony and the rest of us are fighting him.

    I’m not long for this world. The choices I’m being given make me reach for the downers. Like heroin.

    I’m still mad that myiq hasn’t stated his argument for Not-Obama (he keeps telling me to read shit), so I might take him out before Super Cinco-de-Febrero. That way, it’ll all even out.

  131. 131
    Cassidy says:

    Jen, but I wasn’t the one making an ass of myself by nonchalanty tossing around the term ‘pony’ for a black politician.

    Would you prefer Magical Unity Oreo? I bet they taste better than double stuffed and help poor people…sweet!

  132. 132
    LiberalTarian says:

    Re Pony:

    A pony is what Holden gets when GW Bush’s popularity drops to a new low, which is why Atrios is always giving Holden ponies.

    Ponies have apparently, through use and misuse, become allegorical for a political movements on Balloon Juice. I haven’t read Holden, Scout, Tena or Athenae for a while (although I will forever love ferret blogging and it was very sad when Stripe died), but maybe Holden got a new Magical Unity Pony for Christmas because GW Bush screwed up the country so bad.

  133. 133
    tBone says:

    Sorry, Jen, but I wasn’t the one making an ass of myself by nonchalanty tossing around the term ‘pony’ for a black politician.

    No, you’ve come up with an entirely different way of making an ass of yourself, and it’s working very well. Congratulations. You win today’s Sandy Vagina award.

  134. 134
    Jen says:

    there should be no confusion

    There really wasn’t ever any confusion. It was a potential, as-yet-unoccurred, extraordinarily-easy-to-correct, absolutely-no-evidence-to-suggest-that-John-Cole-was-pondering anyone’s-endowment-when-he-coined-the-M.U.P., and-most-of-us-were-unaware-that-there-even-were-racial-undertones-to-ponies, misunderstanding, resulting in a thoroughly tedious discussion, which I tried to enliven with humor, to no avail whatsoever. But I appreciate the support, Sasha!

  135. 135
    Neal says:

    Super Cinco-de-Febrero

    So you hate Latino people now, Caidence?

  136. 136
    Cassidy says:

    Do you think ponies say amongst themselves “hung like a black man”?

  137. 137
    tBone says:

    Give O’Reilly some credit. He’s not into the whole “in your bedroom” thing either.

    Unless there’s falafel involved.

  138. 138
    myiq2xu says:

    I’m still mad that myiq hasn’t stated his argument for Not-Obama (he keeps telling me to read shit), so I might take him out before Super Cinco-de-Febrero. That way, it’ll all even out.

    I gave it in detail the other day but apparently you were on the nod. I’ll go back and look for it.

    You want to take me out? Dinner, or just drinks? I gotta warn you, I don’t put out on first dates unless I’m really drunk.)

  139. 139
    JGabriel says:

    NonyNony:

    Not to detract from the whole discussion on ponies, but apparently Malkin has joined Coulter in saying she “may not” vote for McCain even if he’s up against Clinton. I seriously don’t get what they hope to gain out of all of this.

    Malkin and Coulter are ‘entertainers’, first and foremost. Their core audience is thuggish or bullying hardcore right-wingers.

    In order to keep thier respective audiences, they must continue to confirm that audience’s biases.

    So that’s what they hope to gain out of it: brand loyalty.

  140. 140
    Cassidy says:

    Unless there’s falafel involved.

    Worth expanding on…

    O’Reilly and McCain both had decent reputations prior to Bush. O’Reilly was a liitle nuts, but on the right side of a lot of issues and McCain really was a “maverick”. Think they should sue for damages?

  141. 141
    myiq2xu says:

    If Magical Unity Pony is racist, what about “Princess Sparkle Pony?”

  142. 142

    See what Obama is in for? As soon as he tries to play nice with the Repubs, they are going to hand him his ass on a platter.

    A lot of people don’t seem to understand the Magical Unity Pony. They seem to think that its magic is for everyone. Barack Obama encourages this sort of thinking, because what’s the point of touting your Magical Unity Pony if it isn’t a Universal Magical Unity Pony. He’s against mandates to love the pony, though.

    In reality, the Magical Unity Pony is about spreading its pixie dust on 5-7 people. When the 2008 elections are over, there will likely be a Democratic president, and 53-57 Democrats in the Senate. I’m doing the math, and both 53 and 57 are less than the 60 votes it takes to achieve cloture on a bill in the Senate.

    If the Democratic president wants to get anything done, he or she will need to get to 60 votes in the Senate. Unless there is a ridiculous blowout in the Senate races, that means that you are going to have to get some Republicans to vote for cloture. Obama and Clinton have different ideas about how to get there. I’ll set aside Clinton’s approach for the moment. I think that it’s less likely to be a success, and do more damage to a lot of people, but that’s not to say that it couldn’t work.

    The Magical Unity Pony is about getting enough Republicans to accept that Obama is worth doing business with. As far as the Magical Unity Pony is concerned, as many as forty GOP Senators can go rot in hell, but the pony is too nice (read “politically astute”) to say so. I think that there is a pretty good chance that, without any real leader at the top of the party, you can find the small number of Republican Senators needed to get to 60 by playing nice. Whatever is left of the Repulbican Senate in New England has Lincoln Chaffee fresh on its mind. There won’t be anyone around to browbeat Arlen Specter. There are a couple of others.

  143. 143
    NonyNony says:

    I read every day how McCain is going to win the presidency, partly because even dead republicans will rise from the grave to vote against Hillary, but also because McCain is so beloved by the mainstream media that they will give him a free ride to the White House.

    I’m not hearing the love. Where’s this invincible msm manlove?

    You’re reading two different things in two different parts of teh Intertubes.

    If you read the left-wing blogs what you will hear is “Oh noes! The press lurves John “Straight Talk” McCain and hates Mdm. Hillary. Look at how MSM stalwart Chris Matthews swoons over John “Straight Talk” McCain’s body odor and straight talkin’! Look at how no one in teh mediaz will ever call him out when he’s lying. Doom! Despair! Disaster! We can’t nominate teh Hillaryz as our candidate because then John “Straight Talk” McCain will demolish her! Vote for Obama!”

    If you read the right-wing blogs what you will hear is “Oh noes! The press lurves John “Straight Talk” McCain and hates Mitt Romney. Look at how MSM stalwart Chris Matthews swoons over John McCain and won’t tell the truth about his love for illegal immigrants and hatred of God-fearing Christians. Doom! Despair! Disaster! Our partiez iz being infitrated by liburalz because John McCain will be our candidate and he’s more libural than Hillaryz! Vote for Romney!”

    To see the MSM lurve you actually have to visit the MSM – watch some Chris Matthews or some Tim Russert when McCain is on. You’ll see the man-love.

  144. 144
    Cassidy says:

    Not manly enough…how about naming it after the “cat” in He-Man?

  145. 145
    LiberalTarian says:

    Why are people always picking on Jen? Jen seems perfectly fine to me.

    I realize I do not completely understand the troll mindset, although I admit I am not really trying.

  146. 146
    Jen says:

    Princess Sparkle Pony

    clearly undermines the black man’s power by trivializing and feminizing him. Also, you’ve still got that “pony” in there.

  147. 147
    Caidence (fmr. Chris) says:

    Sorry, Jen, but I wasn’t the one making an ass of myself by nonchalanty tossing around the term ‘pony’ for a black politician.

    Let’s all be PC and drop any language in reference to Obama that connotes strength, power or sexuality, especially if associated with animals.

    Jeebus! Is everything racist now?

    Man, that Obama sure is good at running in electoral races. eh? EH?

    If a black man can get elected President, then black men can let go of this PC shit. “Hillbilly”, “Redneck” keep getting used regarding the couple from Arkansas and Dubya, and I don’t see why Obama’s blackness is more important than that.

    The Pony stays. He transcends eviction.

  148. 148
    JGabriel says:

    Merciless:

    Where’s this invincible msm manlove?

    Hardball with Chris Matthews.

    Even the title gives away the homoeroticism.

  149. 149
    LiberalTarian says:

    Oh, by the way … why are those wingnutty weirdos saying they’d vote for HRC over McCain?

    There’s a thin line between love and hate …

    They’ve shaped HRC as much as anyone, and they know they have power with her. Sad, I think, but arguably true.

  150. 150
    Cassidy says:

    Completely OT, but speaking of PC…

    Anyone seen the Robot Chicken episode where She-Ra has her “visitor”?

  151. 151
    Neal says:

    If Magical Unity Pony is racist, what about “Princess Sparkle Pony?”

    racist AND homophobic.

  152. 152
    Jen says:

    Why are people always picking on Jen? Jen seems perfectly fine to me.

    Thanks! To be fair, I did voluntarily step in to assume the role of Pony-defender.

    Inco, I have *no* idea what’s going with her. She appears to find me threatening, but she also appears to have a personality disorder of some sort. MJ appears to have exhausted all his good comebacks and left.

  153. 153
    Caidence (fmr. Chris) says:

    So you hate Latino people now, Caidence?

    NO NO. I LURV Latinos. Didn’t you get the Press Release from the Obama camp?

    In the drive to court Latino voters, that’s the new name for Super Tuesday: Super Cinco-de-Febrero.

    The “Super” part stays because of laws saying English must be included in the advertisement.

  154. 154
    Cassidy says:

    racist AND homophobic.

    Magical Unity Soulja?

  155. 155
    Jen says:

    Oh, and J. Michael Neal, that was good.

  156. 156
    Jen says:

    Speaking of hating Latinos, did you hear Glenn Beck has decided to bust out with “Juan McCain”?

    That man needs to go back in for ass surgery, because whatever they were doing, they didn’t finish.

  157. 157
    Darkness says:

    myiq2xu Says:

    Another problem is that rigidity of thinking and moral certitude required by religion. Crtitical thinking isn’t a highly regarded quality in Wingnuttia religious institutions.

    It can’t be “conservatism” God that failed, it had to be individual conservatives believers. And since you can’t be “too conservative” trust God too much, then the failure is due to not being conservative religious enough.

    Here in wetware land last night were were discussing the role Christianity plays as a prep-school and programming camp for the current republican mindset. This absolutism keeps these people from fixing serious internal problems (even pedophiles in their ranks) or acknowledging that there may be practical skills needed to do a job beyond demonstrating a strong belief in an ethereal credo (Browny, and pretty much everyone else hired into every federal agency in the last seven years). There is no room for debate, and debate itself is traitorous.

    They don’t have the individual and group mindsets to fix anything, including the GOP itself, and certainly not the country. They are waiting for a savior to take control of the situation from the top and tell them all what to do. When that happens they will be revitalized, shockingly fast. Until that happens they will flounder, internally believing their own unworthiness is the problem. That’s why they latch onto just the vague notion of a savior so fiercely, their self-esteem and life purpose rides on it.

  158. 158
    Caidence (fmr. Chris) says:

    Why are people always picking on Jen? Jen seems perfectly fine to me.

    Thanks! To be fair, I did voluntarily step in to assume the role of Pony-defender.

    Sigh… Girls and their ponies. (I WENT THERE! OH YEAH)

    Inco, I have no idea what’s going with her. She appears to find me threatening, but she also appears to have a personality disorder of some sort.

    It’s called “being a blog commenter”. We’re like Nascar fans. We show up to enthusiastically cheer something that’s already happened 243 times previously: Politicians running in circles trying to show they’ve got the neatest machine (stock car/campaign) ever. Without which, they couldn’t perform in this competition (500 laps/presidential office) in the slightest

  159. 159
  160. 160
    NonyNony says:

    In reality, the Magical Unity Pony is about spreading its pixie dust on 5-7 people. When the 2008 elections are over, there will likely be a Democratic president, and 53-57 Democrats in the Senate. I’m doing the math, and both 53 and 57 are less than the 60 votes it takes to achieve cloture on a bill in the Senate.

    Your math is off. The Magical Unity Pony needs to hit more than 5-7 people. He’ll need a dozen or more.

    5-7 Republicans – the rest Democrats who will to some degree, if history is any indication, be more instrumental in stonewalling the sitting Democratic President than the Republicans.

    Plus those 5-7 Republicans will have full knowledge that to kill a second term for Obama all they have to do is stand their ground. Stonewall, stonewall, stonewall. If they keep a united front, the Republican nominee in ’12 can come out swinging about the acrimony in D.C. and how Obama has failed in his promise to put an end to it.

    The GOP nowadays is actually stupid enough to attempt the “brownshirt” method of politics with Obama. Bank on it – he’ll need a giant bag of pixie dust just to get those 5-7 Republicans to help him out. Especially if one of the ones he’s hoping to help ends up being the guy he beat out for the office.

  161. 161
    Svensker says:

    JGabriel, I am unfamiliar with the negative connotations of “pony”. could you please elaborate?

    It could be seen as playing on the stereotype of the ‘well-hung black man’.

    I thought ponies were small and cute and usually came with long purple manes and tales for little girls to comb, and am gobsmacked to find out that calling Obama the MUP is racist.

    And, sorry if calling McCain a fascist upsets anyone, but I’ve always thought so. He may be against torture, but he is a militarist, likes a strong government, and thinks laws should be what he likes — not what the constitution requires. Call him a gentlemanly fascist, if you like, but he is pretty boiler plate right wing statist (what I would call a fascist) with an occasional “maverick” idea thrown in there.

    Except for the torture thing, how is he different from GWB? Bush, you may recall, is not particularly anti-immigrant either (one of the few problems the right has with him), and I would not hesitate to call Bush a fascist. Actually, there is another difference — I think McCain is more sincere, which, to my mind, actually makes him more dangerous than GWB. Pat Buchanan, paleocon, called McCain “George Bush on steroids.”

  162. 162
    Neal says:

    Speaking of hating Latinos, did you hear Glenn Beck has decided to bust out with “Juan McCain”?

    Oh Jesus H Christ…

    sigh…

  163. 163
    JGabriel says:

    Jen:

    That man needs to go back in for ass surgery, because whatever they were doing, they didn’t finish.

    If you finished removing the ass from Glen Beck, you’d have nothing left.

  164. 164
    Caidence (fmr. Chris) says:

    Here in wetware land last night were were discussing the role Christianity plays as a prep-school and programming camp for the current republican mindset. This absolutism keeps these people from fixing serious internal problems (even pedophiles in their ranks) or acknowledging that there may be practical skills needed to do a job beyond demonstrating a strong belief in an ethereal credo (Browny, and pretty much everyone else hired into every federal agency in the last seven years). There is no room for debate, and debate itself is traitorous.

    Easy there. There’s a lot more dynamism in that model than you realize.

    1.) Christianity teaching doesn’t prep for MPP (modern pachyderm programming), it’s the other way around
    2.) MPP is fleeting, and about to self-destruct
    3.) Corruption keeps pedophiles in their ranks
    4.) Christianity has nothing to do with corruption. Maybe the church leaders do…
    5.) Corruption is a feature of MPP.
    6.) (See point #2)

    I’m sure there’s more, but I have to clean up here, it’s my bitday an imma gonna get fat an drunk.

  165. 165
    Jen says:

    It’s called “being a blog commenter”.

    Yeeeeeahhhh….she’s got a different kind of personality disorder. She wanted some of us to take her puppies. I thought maybe she should’ve maybe tried a more localized outlet, since they probably don’t ship too well, and really, would you trust the people on this blog with a puppy, anyway? That’s just the tip of the iceberg, really.

    Do you think JC is so quiet on this topic because he really was pondering other men’s endowments when he came up with the M.U.P.?

  166. 166
    merciless says:

    To see the MSM lurve you actually have to visit the MSM – watch some Chris Matthews or some Tim Russert when McCain is on. You’ll see the man-love.

    Ugh. Must I? I’ve heard about the orgies, but never chose to actually watch.

    But this is a good point, nony. So it’s the left versus the right versus Chris Matthews and Tim Russert.

  167. 167
    Caidence (fmr. Chris) says:

    Speaking of hating Latinos, did you hear Glenn Beck has decided to bust out with “Juan McCain”?

    That man is a gift to society.

    If it weren’t for him, I wouldn’t be able to remember what my friends were like in high school: tone deaf, smirking, self-confident White people with no sense of reality or capability.

    Thank you Glenn Beck, you are a prize to society

  168. 168
    myiq2xu says:

    And, sorry if calling McCain a fascist upsets anyone, but I’ve always thought so. He may be against torture, but he is a militarist, likes a strong government, and thinks laws should be what he likes

    Yeah, Johnny Mac is against torture, but then he signed off on Chimpy’s torture bill.

    I’m sorry, “enhanced interrogation.”

  169. 169
    JGabriel says:

    Jen:

    Do you think JC is so quiet on this topic because he really was pondering other men’s endowments when he came up with the M.U.P.?

    JC’s MUP was clearly a reference to Atrios’s usage of ‘pony’ to celebrate drops in Bush’s approval rating.

    Jen, you can continue to misrepresent my argument, but I clearly said that MUP as a comment on unity politics wasn’t objectionable, several times.

    It’s when ‘pony’ migrates to a metonym or nickname for Obama, that it becomes problematic.

    Obviously, you find that observation objectionable. You’ve certainly objected vociferously.

    Maybe you should give it some consideration, instead of reactively attacking it.

    If you can’t defend your position without resorting to misrepresenting mine and ad hominem accusations of being overly PC, maybe it’s because your position really isn’t very defensible.

  170. 170
    Rick Taylor says:

    I don’t understand the right wing, but it seems that immigration is really important to them.

    I remember having dinner with my extended family about a year or two ago, conservatives all. I was happily surprised to hear they were becoming disillusioned with Bush. About time, I thought to myself. I asked them what he’d done, and they talked about immigration. I kept my mouth shut, but I was boggled. Let’s see, war under false pretenses, a never-ending occupation, abandoning the Geneva conventions, mounting debt, and what’s really turned around is. . . immigration?

  171. 171
    Jen says:

    I’m not misrepresenting your argument, I’m mocking it. And everyone else is too. So let’s move on already.

  172. 172
    libarbarian says:

    If one of the right wingers could explain the difference between Bush and McCain—and why they LOVE the one and HATE the other—I’d be very curious.

    Im not a right winger but this will take a little while because, right now, I think the difference is so blindingly fucking obvious that I cant even understand where to begin putting it into words.

  173. 173
    JGabriel says:

    Jen:

    I’m not misrepresenting your argument, I’m mocking it. And everyone else is too. So let’s move on already.

    Ok, fair enough. Onward, then.

  174. 174
    myiq2xu says:

    If you can’t defend your position without resorting to misrepresenting mine and ad hominem accusations of being overly PC, maybe it’s because your position really isn’t very defensible.

    Thank you for your concern, but alleging that you are being overly PC is not an “ad hominem” accusation.

    It’s an accurate observation.

    Now let’s discuss real racist terms like “kid” and “fairy tale.”

  175. 175
    Xenos says:

    Now let’s discuss real racist terms like “kid” and “fairy tale.”

    Are you suggesting reverse ageism and homophobia are not a crisis? You clintonite thugs!

    /MUP defender

  176. 176
    myiq2xu says:

    When Kennedy endorsed Obama come commentators called Teddy the “Lion of the Senate.”

    I just realized that was a racist dig.

    See, lions come from Africa, and the lion is called the “King of the Jungle.”

    Since Kennedy is a senior senator and a white man, those commentators were clearly implying that Kennedy is superior to Obama, an African-American, whose father is from Kenya, AFRICA.

    wOW! I never realized how pervasive racism is among liberals.

  177. 177
    Garrigus Carraig says:

    OK oddly I was the first to trot out ‘pony’ in this particular thread, and I myself am a descendant-of-slaves. I obv. didn’t see the offense potential that JGabriel pointed out, because I’m dense like that? So anyway I did some pony research.

    1. Calvin and Hobbes, 13-Jan-1987. “…and as long as I’m dreaming, I’d like a pony.”
    2. John Holbo, of John & Belle, 6-Mar-2004. “You just wish for the thing, plus, wish that everyone would have their own pony!”
    3. There used to be a Poor Man Institute for Freedom, Democracy, and a Pony, but there’s not anymore.
    4. Wingnuts call Edwards “Silky Pony”. Related? I dunno. Still funny.
    5. Here are some pictures of ponies. Pony! Pony!

  178. 178
    Jake says:

    Not manly enough…how about naming it after the “cat” in He-Man?

    “Cringer” is is even less manly.

    Yeah, I remember what the cat was called, so whut?

  179. 179
    John Cole says:

    OK oddly I was the first to trot out ‘pony’ in this particular thread, and I myself am a descendant-of-slaves. I obv. didn’t see the offense potential that JGabriel pointed out, because I’m dense like that? So anyway I did some pony research.

    1. Calvin and Hobbes, 13-Jan-1987. “…and as long as I’m dreaming, I’d like a pony.”
    2. John Holbo, of John & Belle, 6-Mar-2004. “You just wish for the thing, plus, wish that everyone would have their own pony!”
    3. There used to be a Poor Man Institute for Freedom, Democracy, and a Pony, but there’s not anymore.
    4. Wingnuts call Edwards “Silky Pony”. Related? I dunno. Still funny.
    5. Here are some pictures of ponies. Pony! Pony!

    I thought everyone knew Pony came from that Belle Waring post.

  180. 180
    Jen says:

    Well, the Great Pony Discussion was kind of fun, actually, and I think we have a new meme to riff on. I appreciated the pony research. But now, I am off to a wine tasting. And as Obama fanbois are sometimes called “wine track Dems” in more sophisticated blogs, we have come full circle. Y’all have a good weekend.

  181. 181
    John S. says:

    I find all this pony talk truly bizarre.

    I mean, I seriously fail to see how referring to someone as a ‘pony’ could possibly have any kind of racial overtone. I just don’t see it. The only animal reference I could ever see as being racially charged is ‘monkey’, and that is for obvious reasons.

    So until somebody starts calling Obama the Magical Unity Monkey, I don’t see anything to fuss over.

  182. 182
    Zifnab says:

    Add another Google Scalp to the site, John.

  183. 183
    JGabriel says:

    myiq2xu:

    Thank you for your concern, but alleging that you are being overly PC is not an “ad hominem” accusation. It’s an accurate observation.

    You’re right, Myiq2xu. Apparently, I’m the only person in this entire thread who thinks some people might find it objectionable to compare a black man with a pack animal.

    No way could anyone ever be offended by that. It’s just joshing around (no offense intended to any of the Joshes out there).

    Jonah Goldberg must be right. I’ve become a politically correct liberal fascist.

    Now that I can see the wisdom of Jonah Goldberg, everything makes sense, and the world is set aright.

  184. 184
    John S. says:

    Apparently, I’m the only person in this entire thread who thinks some people might find it objectionable to compare a black man with a pack animal.

    If that’s your twisted logic, then I guess nobody should ever refer to a black man as ‘dog’, because they are pack animals, too!

  185. 185
    Jake says:

    I mean, I seriously fail to see how referring to someone as a ‘pony’ could possibly have any kind of racial overtone.

    It doesn’t. Anyone claiming it does is either fucking with ya or mentally ill.

  186. 186
    Zifnab says:

    Jonah Goldberg must be right. I’ve become a politically correct liberal fascist.

    Don’t even get me started on grammar nazis.

  187. 187
    Punchy says:

    John McCant wins the preznitsee, and promptly bombs Iran and Syria. Levin commences the dick sucking asap…

  188. 188
    myiq2xu says:

    You’re right, Myiq2xu. Apparently, I’m the only person in this entire thread who thinks some people might find it objectionable to compare a black man with a pack animal.

    Umm, not to get all super-sensitive here, but there are potential racial connotations in calling a black man ‘Pony’.

    Franly, I think only moron would be unable to understand or concede that point.

    Jen, but I wasn’t the one making an ass of myself by nonchalanty tossing around the term ‘pony’ for a black politician.

    Yeah, it’s us, not you. We’re “morons” and Jen “made an ass” out of herself.

    Thank you for your concern.

  189. 189
    Svensker says:

    libarbarian Says:

    If one of the right wingers could explain the difference between Bush and McCain—and why they LOVE the one and HATE the other—I’d be very curious.

    Im not a right winger but this will take a little while because, right now, I think the difference is so blindingly fucking obvious that I cant even understand where to begin putting it into words.

    Well, if it’s bf obvious, then it should be easy to put into words. But I’ll be happy to wait while you struggle. Seriously, I am interested.

  190. 190
    Grumpy Code Monkey says:

    <Cosell> Look at that pony run! </Cosell>

    Nope, not seeing it. Having grown up around some dyed-in-the-wool, hardcore racists (who would affectionately call Houson Oilers quarterback Warren Moon “Coon Moon, the Bayou Bullet”), I can honestly say that I’ve never seen, heard, nor imagined that “pony” could be used as a racist slur.

    I share everyone else’s confusion on this.

  191. 191
    Darkness says:

    When Kennedy endorsed Obama come commentators called Teddy the “Lion of the Senate.”

    I just realized that was a racist dig.

    No, no, it’s a brutal fascist dig, since it refers to Richard the Lionheart.

    Or, is it a reverse-sexist dig because lions sit on their ass all day and expect the female lions to do all the hunting?

    You’re right, Myiq2xu. Apparently, I’m the only person in this entire thread who thinks some people might find it objectionable to compare a black man with a pack animal.

    I’m with John S and others. I don’t see anything racist in this, unless you are really digging and want to see racism in it. In which case, you could see it in anything. Grand tradition in digging for ponies, true. I mean, come on, their all trying out for King Donkey aren’t they? I’d take Pony over Donkey. Ponies are objects of affection and much dreamed about by girls as one of their few socially acceptable expressions of power. As opposed to most beasts of burden, they are in a balanced relationship with their companion person, carrying a light load and getting lots of attention in return. Unlike draft horses, they get the easy life.

    You’re making me find Colbert’s otherwise annoying penchant to “not see race” as meaningful for the first time because I feel like I need to make that plea to be left with any reasonable outlet for expression that isn’t immediately battered down by some -ism. AND you are making me understand Coulter who IS intentionally provocative to piss off people with ultra -ism disease. For the first time, you are making me realize they may deserve it.

    Pony racist? Oh please. I’m been pushed over the edge on this crap, as of now.

  192. 192
    Grumpy Code Monkey says:

    Dammit, what’s the point in having a preview feature if it lies to you?!

    There should be fake “Cosell” HTML tags surrounding the “Look at that pony run!” line above.

    At least a couple of people here should be old enough to get the reference.

  193. 193
    The Other Steve says:

    I thought everyone knew Pony came from that Belle Waring post.

    Oh come on… everyone and their pony knows it comes from Calvin & Hobbes.

  194. 194
    ThymeZone says:

    I sometimes wonder if O’Reilly and Limbaugh are more “personas” (or spoofs as TZ calls them)

    Oh dear, no. Spoof and persona, entirely different things.

    I am a persona. I am not a spoof. A spoof is doing a joke version, a satirical version, of some other point of view.

    My point of view is entirely authentic.

    There are more personas here than spoofs.

    Not all spoofs are trolls. There is the spooftroll, and there is the spoof, and there is the troll. If you are going to play on a stage with all these different kinds of theatrics going on, it pays to know who is who, and what is what. It takes some paying attention and it also helps to be on the mailing list. We haven’t recruited for a while, maybe it’s time to do that again.

  195. 195
    jcricket says:

    I can honestly say that I’ve never seen, heard, nor imagined that “pony” could be used as a racist slur.

    And I could never imagine that Canadian (while a perfectly good slur about socialist ilberals) would be used as code-speak for those “nasty ol’ black folks”. But apparently it is.

    Strange times, my man. Strange times.

  196. 196
    rawshark says:

    Few people know that N.W.A. originally called themselves Ponies With Attitudes.

    ‘Fuck tha Police
    Ren said it with authority
    because a Pony on the street is a majority…..’

  197. 197
    Jake says:

    Jen, but I wasn’t the one making an ass of myself by nonchalanty tossing around the term ‘pony’ for a black politician.

    !OMG! I can’t believe you called Jen an ass! CLEARLY this is thinly veiled reference to “piece of ass” because you only think of women as sex objects you sexist pig!

    Call the Objectification Polizi!11hundret

  198. 198
    LiberalTarian says:

    Eh, methinks the guy who thought pony was a slur is a newbie to the blogosphere, cuz he shore ain’t a lurker. Good fun though, wot?

    The one that has me curious is the “Godwin,” but I have been too lazy to investigate. I need to go look up the Belle post, too. Someday I suppose.

    Sigh. That’s why I never got the A+, always the A-.

  199. 199
    Bruce Moomaw says:

    While we’re on the subject of the Bushite Right utterly losing it over McCain’s nomination, consider the new example that Brendan Nyhan has discovered.

    Notwithstanding the fact that I think McCain would be an utter disaster as President — and that, in some ways, he might very well manage to be even WORSE than Bush-Cheney — I cannot deny my absolute delight that, when push came to shove, a landslide majority of regular rank-and-file GOP voters — judging from today’s GOP primary polls — has apparently decided to tell these malignant fruitcakes where to go. (Fox News’ poll today shows him beating Romney 62-29 in a 2-man race.) The Europeans, I gather, had pretty much written off the American people as a whole as Neanderthals before the 2006 elections — but we American Democratic Party members were still writing off all Republicans as Neanderthals, and it now looks as though that’s not true either. Thank God! Neither the Torture Auction nor the denial of global warming nor the spectre of the Brown Hordes were winning issues even in the GOP primaries, and that is a benison I would never have dreamed possible at the start of this year. It also indicates that the Reformation of the GOP may be a lot faster than I had ever imagined — and while that may not be good news for the Democratic Party, it is unqualified good news for the nation as a whole.

  200. 200
    myiq2xu says:

    Now that I can see the wisdom of Jonah Goldberg, everything makes sense, and the world is set aright.

    I really hope that was sarcasm, otherwise we’ve lost another to the dark side.

  201. 201
    JGabriel says:

    JGabriel:

    If you finished removing the ass from Glen Beck, you’d have nothing left.

    Apparently, I objectified Glen Beck too. Which says all kinds of things about me that I don’t ever want to think about.

  202. 202
    JGabriel says:

    Myiq2xu:

    I really hope that was sarcasm, otherwise we’ve lost another to the dark side.

    They have cookies!

  203. 203
    myiq2xu says:

    Apparently, I objectified Glen Beck too. Which says all kinds of things about me that I don’t ever want to think about.

    Let’s not even go into the ass = donkey = pony thing.

  204. 204
    myiq2xu says:

    They have cookies!

    We have brownies!

    (the really good kind. Is it 4:20 yet?)

  205. 205

    […] I am not the only one asking such questions. Sphere: Related ContentAnd yes, I know it means “Republican in Name Only” [↩] Filed under: US Politics,2008 Campaign | | […]

  206. 206

    Plus those 5-7 Republicans will have full knowledge that to kill a second term for Obama all they have to do is stand their ground. Stonewall, stonewall, stonewall. If they keep a united front, the Republican nominee in ‘12 can come out swinging about the acrimony in D.C. and how Obama has failed in his promise to put an end to it.

    You are making the assumption that the completely ahistorical monolithic unity of the Republican Party is going to continue. Quite aside from the fact that no party in American history has managed that sort of unity for very long, you obviously aren’t paying attention to what’s going on the Republican Party at the moment. They are on the verge of tearing themselves apart. If they don’t have an obvious center to hold things together, which requires having either the Presidency or at least one house of Congress, things aren’t going to hold together.

    A fair amount of what has kept everyone in line is the fear of crossing the party line. If there’s nothing holding that leadership together, there isn’t going to be any fear. If you are, say, Susan Collins, what is going to strike terror into your heart? Is it the things that the Senate Minority Leader might do to you, or is it the spectacle of the electorate in next door New Hampshire having just obliterated the career of John Sununu? The Magical Unity Pony offers you a face saving way out of that dilemma.

    As for the Democrats, sure. There’s going to be some issues. See Will Rogers on the unified nature of the Democrats. Still, there is a huge difference between having a Democrat in the White House and George Bush in the White House. Just exactly who do you think is going to be able to propose bills to Congress in a way that backs them into a corner?

  207. 207
    Darkness says:

    Grumpy Code Monkey Says:

    Dammit, what’s the point in having a preview feature if it lies to you?!

    I concur.

    John Cole, please tell webmaster to fix. Thanks.

    The javascript preview is more up to date than the filters that engage when the posting goes through. For example & c e n t ; (with the spaces removed, gets double filtered and the & a m p ; is itself absorbed into a special character string, which it shouldn’t be. Hard to explain this, since I have to take the filter’s bad behavior into account just to illustrate the problem.

    Second problem is the special character set on the javascript preview works across the board but the filters replaces the ones it doesn’t recognize with & a m p ; and it has fallen behind the times. So, in the preview I see a nice 1/2 sign for ½ but after posting it prints out as you see there as the raw special character string, and I suspect it does that for all the new special character additions.

    Not sure if this is the same problem Grumpy Code Monkey had.

    I think your webmaster will understand this all.

  208. 208
    Bruce Moomaw says:

    I presume everyone has already heard about this, but I couldn’t resist Comedy Central’s last line.

  209. 209
    JGabriel says:

    That is a great last line. Thanks for linking it, Bruce.

  210. 210
    ThymeZone says:

    Persons interested in the mailing list should contact me, my email address is thinly disguised and in more or less plain view from here. I will leave it up for a little while. If you miss the window, you can always ask me for it later.

  211. 211
    LiberalTarian says:

    Wow. Look at Coulter go.

    Dude. I don’t think I can see out of my right eye anymore!! My eye, my eye!!

  212. 212
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    You’re right, Myiq2xu. Apparently, I’m the only person in this entire thread who thinks some people might find it objectionable to compare a black man with a pack animal.

    Or for shit’s sake, I suppose that If I say that Obama is a great man there will be someone who will say that men are boys first so I was calling Obama “boy.” I think that we can trust the regular posters here to call a spade a spade.

  213. 213
    LiberalTarian says:

    You said spade!! Bad you!!!! ;)

  214. 214
    tBone says:

    I think your webmaster will understand this all.

    Ha ha! Good one.

    AFAIK this is a fairly vanilla WordPress install that John maintains himself. (He hasn’t been part of the vast leftwing conspiracy long enough to warrant his own team of Uberl33t Liberal Code Ninjas.) So I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for a solution to fiddly little problems like you described.

    Apparently, I’m the only person in this entire thread who thinks some people might find it objectionable to compare a black man with a pack animal.

    Yep. Let go of the pearls and back away from the fainting couch.

  215. 215
    JGabriel says:

    LiberalTarian:

    Wow. Look at Coulter go.

    I just watched that video again, and after listening to Coulter’s voice… For the life of me, I don’t see where anyone who likes Ann gets away with calling Hillary shrill.

    I have to go now. My ears are ringing.

  216. 216
    LiberalTarian says:

    JGabriel Says:

    I have to go now. My ears are ringing.

    Yeah, I know what you mean. I think I need a shower. I feel kinda dirty. Um, not in a good way. :D

  217. 217
    Zifnab says:

    Not all spoofs are trolls. There is the spooftroll, and there is the spoof, and there is the troll. If you are going to play on a stage with all these different kinds of theatrics going on, it pays to know who is who, and what is what. It takes some paying attention and it also helps to be on the mailing list. We haven’t recruited for a while, maybe it’s time to do that again.

    Nope. Fail. Too much thinking for Friday afternoon. I reject.

  218. 218
    myiq2xu says:

    […] I am not the only one asking such questions. Sphere: Related ContentAnd yes, I know it means “Republican in Name Only” [↩] Filed under: US Politics,2008 Campaign | | […]

    Is it just me, or did this post make sense to someone besides the poster?

    Did it make sense to the poster even?

  219. 219
    myiq2xu says:

    A fair amount of what has kept everyone in line is the fear of crossing the party line. If there’s nothing holding that leadership together, there isn’t going to be any fear. If you are, say, Susan Collins, what is going to strike terror into your heart? Is it the things that the Senate Minority Leader might do to you, or is it the spectacle of the electorate in next door New Hampshire having just obliterated the career of John Sununu? The Magical Unity Pony offers you a face saving way out of that dilemma.

    How does Obama offer a face-saving way out?

    I’m serious, please explain it to me.

    Right now Chimpy’s approval ratings are flatlined at Nixonian levels and the GOP his headed for another likely pimp-slapping in Novemeber, but the GOP is acting like the Jews at Masada. “Death before Surrender” seems to be their motto.

    How is that going to change if Obama wins in November?

  220. 220
    ThymeZone says:

    Too much thinking for Friday afternoon.

    There is an open bar in the lobby.

    See you there.

  221. 221
    myiq2xu says:

    Not all spoofs are trolls. There is the spooftroll, and there is the spoof, and there is the troll.

    But are all trolls spoofs?

    Trollspoofs?

  222. 222
    HyperIon says:

    Oh dear, no. Spoof and persona, entirely different things.

    I am a persona. I am not a spoof. A spoof is doing a joke version, a satirical version, of some other point of view.

    ya know, i was going to correct myiq2xu then i got distracted by the whole pony thing. but i was pretty sure you’ld show up and set him straight. now if you could just get him to shut up….

  223. 223
    Zifnab says:

    How does Obama offer a face-saving way out?

    I’m serious, please explain it to me.

    Right now Chimpy’s approval ratings are flatlined at Nixonian levels and the GOP his headed for another likely pimp-slapping in Novemeber, but the GOP is acting like the Jews at Masada. “Death before Surrender” seems to be their motto.

    How is that going to change if Obama wins in November?

    If Hillary wins the nomination, angry movement conservatives will have a conservative movement in their pants over all the horrible things they’ve told themselves would happen when Empress Hillary ascends her royal throne. Rush Limbaugh will wake up in cold sweets, awaiting Vince Foster’s fate. Sean Hannity will regularly piss himself during broadcasts and spastically check over his shoulder for the Clintonista goon squad coming to drag him off to prison. And Newt Gingrich will bemoan the death of the 2nd Amendment and sane fiscal policy quietly, hidden away under his bed. Republicans will turn out in droves to “save the nation” from their own paranoid delusions.

    If Obama wins the nomination, Republicans will do the exact same thing, except that they’ll be aiming all their pants-wetting fear at John McCain, because they hate John McCain for stuff, and McCain’s got a reputation for fucking over people who get in his way.

    Obama gives Republicans a chance to play the “we’re not racists” card as he becomes every movement conservative pundits new black friend. They get to tell themselves he’s not really a liberal, because he transcends political ideology. David Broder, Chris Mathews, and Tim Russert get to smoke cigarettes together after tag-teaming two candidates they can’t bring themselves to splodge over enough, while Rush Limbaugh and FOX News try desperately to control their racist impulses as they throw backhanded compliments at everyone running. Youth turnout explodes, and four years from now everyone gets to run around worshiping Barak Obama like he’s the New Reagen, even though he doesn’t perform much better than the Original Kennedy. Regardless, we get our political realignment, and maybe pull this country out of the crapper a little faster because everyone’s riding the Unity Pony.

  224. 224
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    You said spade!! Bad you! ;)

    I was hoping that someone would get it.

  225. 225
    AkaDad says:

    As the President of Republicans for Hillary, I like how she’s willing to accept money and advice from corporate lobbyists.

  226. 226
    LiberalTarian says:

    Hm. Re trolls, spoofs, spooftrolls and trollspoofs. Hm. spooft rolls sound kinda tasty. But, I digress.

    I am something of a goof. I admit it. If there is something random out there in the ‘verse I will be drawn to it like lint to a black wool overcoat.

    I distinguish myself from trolling though, cuz I may not make people happy with my randomness and occasionally bizarre opinion, but I never intentionally try to mix it up with anyone.

    I just like to comment. I comment elsewhere, too, but this is my favorite place right now. You know, kinda like the outatowner who stops by the local watering hole and gets piss drunk with the locals.

  227. 227
    myiq2xu says:

    One of the problems for the wingnuts is the lack of honest feedback. The “bubble-boy” phenomena is not exclusive to Chimpy.

    Wingnuttia intentionally cut itself off from differing viewpoints. Information and policy travel in one direction (downward) and speaking truth to power is not only discouraged, it’s heretical.

    (Here on the left we have the opposite problem – we believe in the equality of opinion and never agree on anything.)

    If this were the dictatorship Chimpy wishes it was, this struggle for succession would be bloody and the losers would be executed or marched off to “reeducation” camps.

    Eventually someone will seize the reins of power in the GOP and everyone else will fall in line or be branded as apostates.

    It’s already happening.

  228. 228
    myiq2xu says:

    ya know, i was going to correct myiq2xu then i got distracted by the whole pony thing. but i was pretty sure you’ld show up and set him straight. now if you could just get him to shut up….

    Personal attacks are not argument. If you don’t like what I have to say, just skip to the next comment.

    Or kiss my ass.

  229. 229

    Wasn’t McCain one of the Keating Five? What does that make him?

  230. 230
    ThymeZone says:

    Wasn’t McCain one of the Keating Five? What does that make him?

    A crook, actually. His co-crook, Dennis DeConcini, Democrat, had the good grace not to seek reelection to the Senate after smoking the Keating bone.

  231. 231
    myiq2xu says:

    His co-crook, Dennis DeConcini, Democrat, had the good grace not to seek reelection to the Senate after smoking the Keating bone.

    Out here in Big Smoggy, we hsd one of the others, Alan Cranston, who decided to retire and was replaced by Barbara Boxer.

    Johnny Carson joked that Cranston had “charisma bybass” surgery.

  232. 232
    HyperIon says:

    Personal attacks are not argument.

    is saying that i would like you to shut up a personal attack?

    If you don’t like what I have to say, just skip to the next comment.

    back at you.

  233. 233
    Darkness says:

    Eventually someone will seize the reins of power in the GOP and everyone else will fall in line or be branded as apostates.

    It’s already happening.

    Ever notice how they seem to rise up strongest right after they seem the most hopeless and disorganized? All of a sudden, like a ray of sunshine, the marching orders come down, everyone stops sniping and takes aim in the same direction. People want to count them out. Don’t ever count them out. Top-down political regimes when they are executing in lock-step and have identified the enemy, move quickly. By the time the Dems have decided which coffee house is PC this week to hold their meeting at (you know, because a third think shade grown is most important, half think fair trade, and the others want Himalayan tea to help support the struggle there) the Repubs have taken over congress again.

  234. 234
    empty says:

    Top-down political regimes when they are executing in lock-step and have identified the enemy, move quickly. By the time the Dems have decided which coffee house is PC this week to hold their meeting at (you know, because a third think shade grown is most important, half think fair trade, and the others want Himalayan tea to help support the struggle there) the Repubs have taken over congress again.

    Hello Darkness my new friend.

    Had to say that.

  235. 235
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Houston, we have a problem.

    The ‘Magical Unity Pony’ could be an insult to Obama, the ‘Magical Unity Horse’ could be a ‘bigger’ insult, and the ‘Magical Unity Unicorn’ has that phallic thingy going on (seems like the damn penis is always causing trouble!). So how about the ‘Magical Unity Donkey’? Obama is a Democrat, so he obviously is a donkey. And a donkey is famous for its ability to work hard (though they can be stubborn!), so that should be a compliment.

    Or would the ‘Magical Unity Donkey’ piss off the immigrant voters from South America (Juan Valdez and his donkey come to mind).

    Jeez, being pc is so damn tough to do. That and it is sooooooo early 90’s.

    Obama HAS a Magical Unity Pony. He is obviously not a pony in any way, shape or form. It is obvious that he buys his shoes from a shoe store, not a blacksmith. So that should be cleared up.

    Still, I think everyone is being far too quiet about the fact that the Magical Unity Pony shoots rainbows and candy out of its ass.

    That makes me suspicious.

  236. 236
    LiberalTarian says:

    Well, I know I have not been here since the world began, but I thought Obama was the Magic Unity Pony. Sorry.

    I didn’t realize he was just riding it.

  237. 237
    Darkness says:

    Hello Darkness my new friend.

    Had to say that.

    Yup. I’m standin’ here beneath the halo of a streetlamp. It’s damp, although, not particularly cold. There’s another rainbow. Fifth one today. Now I know that damn pony’s to blame for them, so that’s good.

    I found my 12 year old nephew listening to that song one day. He was really digging it, which after such rap and hip hop exposure he’s had, I was quite surprised by.

  238. 238

    […] I’m tempted to say that John’s question is its own answer: completely plastic mendacity is the core principle of “conservatism” today. (Meaning, NRO/Weekly Standard conservatism. Bushism.) But the truth is, as numerous people have pointed out, McCain can reel off whoppers with the best of them. […]

  239. 239
    Steve J. says:

    Honestly, they think McCain’s bad, they should look up that Reagan fella.

    They also don’t recall that St. Ronnie raised taxes in 1982 and 1983 and closed some loopholes for the top 0.1% in 1986.

  240. 240
    dslak says:

    Regarding myiq2xu’s claims of Internet Republicans being more insular than Democrats, that’s actually not true, as you can see here and here. There’s some links to journal articles in those pieces, but they’re behind a subscriber firewell.

  241. 241
    dslak says:

    I posted faster than I typed. Those pieces show that myiq2xu is right. Damm you, Scott Beauchamp!

  242. 242
    dslak says:

    Err, I posted faster than my brain. I’ll shut up now.

  243. 243
    myiq2xu says:

    I posted faster than I typed. Those pieces show that myiq2xu is right. Damm you, Scott Beauchamp!

    I nominate for POTD!

  244. 244
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Yup. I’m standin’ here beneath the halo of a streetlamp. It’s damp, although, not particularly cold. There’s another rainbow. Fifth one today. Now I know that damn pony’s to blame for them, so that’s good.

    Yeah, but did you find the candy? Everyone else keeps beating me to it, so I have no idea if it is any good.

    Five rainbows in one day eh? The Magical Unity Pony must have been real close by!

  245. 245

    It isn’t conservative to try to reverse FDR in 2008 though.

    Good point kwAwk:

    They’re fighting a ghost.. That can’t be healthy. Even their alleged hero Ronald Reagan never went that far; no surprise considering Ronnie was an ardent New Dealer back in the day.

    I don’t think they want to stop at just one Roosevelt either. TR was one of those liberal radicals too.

  246. 246

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] I’m tempted to say that John’s question is its own answer: completely plastic mendacity is the core principle of “conservatism” today. (Meaning, NRO/Weekly Standard conservatism. Bushism.) But the truth is, as numerous people have pointed out, McCain can reel off whoppers with the best of them. […]

  2. […] I am not the only one asking such questions. Sphere: Related ContentAnd yes, I know it means “Republican in Name Only” [↩] Filed under: US Politics,2008 Campaign | | […]

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