Where Have You Been, Peter Wehner?

Another shocked evangelical conservative:

Some of us — in my case, a political conservative and evangelical Christian — are getting a queasy feeling when it comes to the presidential campaign of former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, and much of it has to do with his use of faith in this political campaign.

Many who don’t know Huckabee were initially impressed with him, me included. He comes across as authentic and likable, humorous and self-deprecating. He is an excellent debater and a first-rate speaker. But if you look closely, a disturbing pattern emerges.

In Iowa, Huckabee advertised himself as a “Christian leader.” A few months ago, when speaking to a large gathering of social conservatives in Washington, he told them, “I think it’s important that the language of Zion is a mother tongue and not a recently acquired second language.” When asked to explain his surge in the polls, he answered, “There’s only one explanation for it, and it’s not a human one. It’s the same power that helped a little boy with two fish and five loaves feed a crowd of 5,000 people.”

These people make me want to scream. Where were you when the Bush administration and their allies in Congress were pushing the Schiavo legislation? Where were you for the Just Us Sunday series? Where were you when your shock troops were waging their insipid and idiotic “War on Christmas” bullshit. Where were you when Bush was setting back Stem Cell research a decade? Where were you folks during the hundreds of documented abuses over the past decade? Where were you when every time someone pointed out these abuses, they were smeared as anti-Christian or evil secularists? And so on and so on.

Oh, that is right. You were in the Bush administration. STFU and enjoy your creation, Dr. Frankenstein.

And happy Saturnalia, you putz.






107 replies
  1. 1

    Just like criminals “find” Jesus in jail, it appears, evangelicals “find” a perverted form of secularism when the right kind of evangelical isn’t looking to be President.

    STFU, indeed.

  2. 2
    Randy Paul says:

    I’m a regular mass-attending Roman Catholic, but I have little patience with those who attribute every single event to “God’s will.” For example

    1.) I don’t buy the notion that it’s God’s will that young children get cancer.

    2.) I don’t buy the notion that if you are the quarterback/pitcher/center, etc. of a championship winning team that God was why you won. God is not rooting for your team to win, nor is God picking the other team and the points.

    3.) One year at a place where I worked, an evangelical christian was saying “God is so good” because the salary increase ranges were pretty good. The next year, when the company continued to do well, the rates were less than half of the previous years. I told her that God must not have been very good then.

    God all too often has more important things to worry about than your team or your salary ranges.

  3. 3
    borehole says:

    Hey, that’s not fair. The Monster drowned that little girl by accident, and he never would’ve thrown her a purity ball.

  4. 4
    El Cruzado says:

    It’s hard to deal with people who consider cognitive dissonance a feature and not a bug.

  5. 5
    RSA says:

    The establishment GOP position seems to be a faux incredulous “You didn’t really think we were serious about all that religious shit, did you?”

  6. 6
    myiq2xu says:

    Don’t judge Jesus by those who claim to be His followers. They obviously don’t know him very well.

    They wage war in the name of the Prince of Peace. They claim to love Him but hate most of His children.

    He said not to pray on the street corners but to go into your closet and pray in secret. They want to make prayer in school mandatory.

    He said don’t worry about the mote in your neighbor’s eye, worry about the beam in your own. They want to legislate morality and spy on everyone.

    He said “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” They want to execute more people than we already do, and make it happen faster.

    He said to love your neighbor and to turn the other cheek. They want to bomb Iran.

    I quit going to church when I realized that Jesus (the real one) would never be welcome there.

  7. 7
    Dreggas says:

    I quit going to church when I realized that Jesus (the real one) would never be welcome there.

    That was one of the many reasons I converted to paganism.

  8. 8
    ThymeZone says:

    I’ll withhold the Where Were You recital that is begged here, since I promised not to say anything, you know, rotten, about you, and since it’s, you know, Baby Jesus’ Birthday, and everything …. but ….

    I think we do better to encourage the people who are finally waking up to the Beast that is the Republican side of the political country, and welcoming them to the world of reality and stuff.

    Just saying.

    And let’s get on this, everybody. Article 6 says no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office for a friggin REASON, and we would be wise not to ignore it.

    Huckabee is a liar, and he fully intends to be your Jesus President. Don’t make the mistake for a second of thinking otherwise.

  9. 9
    Eural Joiner says:

    I really liked what I heard on the “The Young Turks” a few weeks back concerning our current spat of evangelical/political “christians” – it’s the only movement that requires you to support actions and policies that are the opposite of what the founder preached and taught.

    That about sums it up for me right there.

  10. 10
    Andrew J. Lazarus says:

    Unfortunately, I suspect for many of the Republican Remnant the real (as opposed to pretextual) problem with Huckabee is his stopped-clock opposition to torture,

  11. 11
    Vladi G says:

    Some of us—in my case, a political conservative and evangelical Christian—are getting a queasy feeling when it comes to the presidential campaign of former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, and much all of it has to do with his use of faith in this political campaign. the fact that he’ll get slaughtered in the general election.

    Fixed that for him. See, when he says he’s having second thoughts, what he’s really saying is “please don’t nominate the Huckster, because if you do, we’re going to get drilled.”

    And John, if the Schiavo mess, or the Just Us crap, or any of that other stuff came up again, rest assured they’d be right back where they were. These people aren’t questioning the marriage of politics and religion. They’re trying to torpedo Huckabee because his loss will sink their cause. It would be a reason for old-style conservatives to say “look how these idiots cost us the election”.

  12. 12
    jcricket says:

    I think we do better to encourage the people who are finally waking up to the Beast that is the Republican side of the political country, and welcoming them to the world of reality and stuff.

    We need a two-fold strategy. Support and encourage Republicans to embrace their jesus-freaks. Republicans thrive on secrecy, code-words, dog-whistle politics. It’s all fine and good when it’s a wink and a nod, but they’ll lose majority support (at least on the big scale elections) when their true face comes out.

    And saying “Hey, lookie over here. Those ooga-booga Democrats aren’t so bad. Take a second look and you’ll realize everything Republicans said about us is a lie.”

  13. 13
    RSA says:

    I quit going to church when I realized that Jesus (the real one) would never be welcome there.

    A long-haired sandal-wearing hippie preaching love, tolerance, and understanding? Who hangs out with prostitutes and diseased people? Who says we should give up the rat race and live like the lilies of the field, because rich people will never get into heaven? Not a good pitchman for 21st century Americans.

  14. 14

    I really liked what I heard on the “The Young Turks” a few weeks back concerning our current spat of evangelical/political “christians” – it’s the only movement that requires you to support actions and policies that are the opposite of what the founder preached and taught.

    You mean Jesus didn’t support torture?

    That’s not what my sunday school teacher told me.

  15. 15

    Fixed that for him. See, when he says he’s having second thoughts, what he’s really saying is “please don’t nominate the Huckster, because if you do, we’re going to get drilled.”

    Vladi G nailed it. I think it was Mark Crispin Miller (though he certainly wasn’t alone) who noted how well Bush spoke the code to evangelicals during the 2000 primaries and general election, as well as after 9/11. The fact that he had to speak in code is telling–the smarter people on the religious right know that they’re outnumbered by sane christians, and so you have to speak in code. Huckabee doesn’t do that–he says it straight out, and that makes the people who aren’t comfortable with a theocrat in power nervous, especially now that we’re had King George the Lesser in power for all this time.

  16. 16
    Dreggas says:

    And John, if the Schiavo mess, or the Just Us crap, or any of that other stuff came up again, rest assured they’d be right back where they were. These people aren’t questioning the marriage of politics and religion. They’re trying to torpedo Huckabee because his loss will sink their cause. It would be a reason for old-style conservatives to say “look how these idiots cost us the election”.

    In other words because the result would be the abortion of that marriage and the offspring it attempted to create?

  17. 17

    I quit going to church when I realized that Jesus (the real one) would never be welcome there.

    As my mother told me about why she stopped going to church.

    “I came to realize that those people needed help a lot more than I did.”

  18. 18

    Actually, I look at Huckabee and think Scudder, and that worries me a lot.

  19. 19
    ThymeZone says:

    it’s the only movement that requires you to support actions and policies that are the opposite of what the founder preached and taught the founders wrote into the Constitution.

    A subtle, but important, distinction.

  20. 20
    horatius says:

    Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas.

  21. 21

    The establishment GOP position seems to be a faux incredulous “You didn’t really think we were serious about all that religious shit, did you?”

    How many fables are there about the boy who harnesses the power of a demon, only to find himself surprised when the demon consumes him in the end?

    What on Earth did they think those fables were about?

  22. 22
    Wilfred says:

    It’s the same power that helped a little boy with two fish and five loaves feed a crowd of 5,000 people

    Little boy? In the Gospel, Jesus is a grown man with disciples when he did that. Pretty odd thing for a preacher to say, no?

  23. 23
    ThymeZone says:

    How many fables are there about the boy who harnesses the power of a demon,

    Nah, those folks don’t believe in fables!

    If I’m wrong, may lightning strike me de*##$

    { connection lost }

  24. 24
    Wilfred says:

    “I think it’s important that the language of Zion is a mother tongue and not a recently acquired second language

    What the fuck is this stupid motherfucker talking about? Can he mean this language of Zion?

    Israeli military prosecutors have decided not to take any legal action over Israel’s use of cluster bombs during last year’s war in Lebanon, the army said Monday, closing an investigation into a practice that has drawn heavy criticism from the U.N. and international human rights groups. The investigation determined that Israel’s use of the weapons, which open in flight and scatter dozens of bomblets, was a “concrete military necessity” and did not violate international humanitarian law.”

    What a relief.

  25. 25
    myiq2xu says:

    I remember when here in California at least once a year the Legislature would pass a bill outlawing abortion (or cutting off Medi-Cal funding for it) and our Republican governor would sign it into law.

    Planned Parenthood would promptly file suit in federal court and it would just as promptly be declared unconstitutional. Everybody knew that it was just for show. It was all a kabuki dance so the conservatives could look good for the fundie crowd. Politicians in other states did it too.

    They stopped doing it when it began to look like SCOTUS might reverse Roe v. Wade. As long a Roe is the law of the land, it acts as a firewall. Conservatives can talk about outlawing abortion without dealing with the consequences.

    Right now abortion is an issue that motivates the fundies but not the liberals. As long as abortion is legal, liberals worry about other stuff. If Roe were overturned, liberals would suddenly care about the issue, and so would a lot of other people. People who vote.

    The GOP strategy to win the fundie votes was to push issues like abortion, gay marriage and prayer in schools. The GOP didn’t really mean it, they just wanted the votes. After they won the elections, they went back to lining their pockets and giving away our country to their corporate masters.

    The fundies didn’t think it was just a game, they were serious.

    Schadenfreude baby!

  26. 26
    A different Matt says:

    Thymezone says:

    I think we do better to encourage the people who are finally waking up to the Beast that is the Republican side of the political country, and welcoming them to the world of reality and stuff.

    As other commentors (Vladi G) have noted – nobody’s waking up to anything. This is strictly about not wanting overt Christian themes exposed as political losers.

    Hardcore Christianity doesn’t really fit in with our consumptive commercial ways.

  27. 27
    jcricket says:

    What on Earth did they think those fables were about?

    Liberal Fascism? How the mean liberals took Christmas away? Why liberals make the baby Jesus weep? How liberals and terrorists play the Nintendo Wii Tennis as training for their Jihad?

    Take your pick.

    They think they’re going to win, and win it all. So what’s the difference if you trample on people to get to the top? When there’s no reckoning but the one the lord gives you in the afterlife (and you’re already convinced you’re doing his work) who the fuck cares about anyone you fuck over in this life?

  28. 28
    myiq2xu says:

    Actually, I look at Huckabee and think Scudder, and that worries me a lot.

    The Reverend Nehemiah Scudder! (aka The First Prophet)

    RIP R.A.H.

  29. 29
    pharniel says:

    and don’t forget the monster of the single issue voter.
    You created an entire class of people who vote simply on one issue and don’t activly care about the rest, and you now are in the unsurprising position of having tons of single issue voters…..who’s single issues are now incompatable.

    escpaically now that things are headed south (despite what the captian’s craptacular econimic analysis says. I do wish he’d Read Calculated risk and the right-wing econ blogs they point to. just because wallstreet is up and the investor class is doing well doesn’t mean joe average is doing well, let alone joe six-pack who’s been seriously fucked the last few years.) people are starting to realise how much the ceo’s and such are getting paid to FAIL, let alone what they get paid to succede, and well……..it’s just a matter of time before ‘lifestyles of the ritch and famous’ get’s dusted off as a battle hymn.

  30. 30
    pharniel says:

    A differnt matt says

    Hardcore Christianity doesn’t really fit in with our consumptive commercial ways.

    Or the GOP’s boydiddlin, wife cheatn’, stealing and corruption. let’s face it, a hard core tehocrat would happily behad most of the current GOP along with that poor gay SOB.

    they’d also just lash, or let go a good chunk of the prison population, thus destroying that sweet-heart industry, as well as a host of other things, such as overurning the 14th amendment.

    so it’s alot more than “Hardcore Christianity doesn’t really fit in with our consumptive commercial ways.”
    Hardcore christianity doesn’t really fit well with our nation and current system of government, even in it’s current weakened state.

    but hey, at least ron paul can do the ‘cross of gold’ speach and get a chuckle from the audiance.

  31. 31

    The Reverend Nehemiah Scudder! (aka The First Prophet)

    RIP R.A.H.

    Wow. Who’s geekier, you, for recognizing the reference, Kirk for offering it, or me, for thinking, “No, not really the right parallel. Scudder was a parody of Smith, and his church was a parody of the LDS. Wouldn’t Heinlein think Romney was the one to worry about?”

  32. 32

    at least ron paul can do the ‘cross of gold’ speach and get a chuckle from the audiance

    Except the Cross of Gold speech was in favor of inflated fiat currency. It was the bankers who wanted to retain the gold standard and unwind the Civil War Era inflation.

  33. 33
    myiq2xu says:

    “No, not really the right parallel. Scudder was a parody of Smith, and his church was a parody of the LDS. Wouldn’t Heinlein think Romney was the one to worry about?”

    Not really a parody. Bob was using fiction to describe what would happen if we lost the separation between church and state.

    When Scudder gets elected President, the United States enters a dark age (and Woodrow Wilson Smith decides to spend some quality time off Earth.)

  34. 34

    Woodrow Wilson Smith decides to spend some quality time off Earth.

    Sorry, I meant Joseph Smith (first Prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints). I’d forgotten that other Smith.

    In short, you win.

  35. 35
    myiq2xu says:

    Sorry, I meant Joseph Smith (first Prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints). I’d forgotten that other Smith.

    In short, you win.

    I understood which one you meant, I was just using Lazarus Long’s real name to highlight my geekiness.

    FIAWOL

  36. 36

    I always wondered whether what Heinlein was trying to do when he named his all time hero after Woody Guthrie, who shared almost none of Heinlein’s ideals, and who, tragically, died young.

  37. 37
    Margaret says:

    Actually I’m laughing at the Cheney’s and Roves and Coulters and the rest of the secular republicans who have been pretending to be superstitious in order to defeat the Democrats. What they have created has come home to roost and I. am. loving. it. I soooo hope that cHuckabee gets the nomination, it will be an object lesson to those around these days who may be tempted to try that again in the future. As for the religious folks, I’ve never faulted anybody for having genuine faith, even though I don’t share it. That being said, you get what you deserve for playing the dupe to that transparent exploitation of your belief structure for cynical purposes. It’s my turn to laugh and I am.

  38. 38
    Ivan Renko says:

    Then you’d remember his mama Maureen and his “daughters” Lapis Lazuli and Lorelei Lee, right?

    So (geektest!) did he or did he not carry a Remington Mark XX blaster in a thigh holster under that kilt?

  39. 39

    It’s the repeated tragedy of American religious wakenings. Seriously — they start out on the left, widely supported for fighting for things that matter to all of us, then get coopted by their nativist leanings, and become hateful and exclusivist. For a long time, this increases their power, as people discover that it’s Godly to hold shameful views. Eventually, they get powerful enough that they try to challenge the secular powers that be, get kicked in the teeth, hard, and retreat into their kennels whimpering about the triumph of Satan.

    In the end, the religious themselves are as much responsible for their own defeat as the secularists who try to exploit them. If religious parties actually asked people to live up to their standards, then the folks who join up because they can feel good about being bad would never join. As a result, the people who take power in the nascent reawakening are the Babbit’s the Lewis wrote about — hollow hypocrites in the grand tradition of Amie Semple MacPherson and Pat Robertson.

  40. 40
    myiq2xu says:

    I always wondered whether what Heinlein was trying to do when he named his all time hero after Woody Guthrie, who shared almost none of Heinlein’s ideals, and who, tragically, died young.

    I never really put any thought into why Heinlein wrote what he did, but maybe I should.

    Heinlein is considered by many to be the father of the science fiction genre, and even though some of his early stories are now outdated, they are still fun to read.

    He basically predicted the creation of the Internet in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, he invented the waterbed and predicted cell phones.

    His politics seem to be a mix of old school conservative and libertarian, (kinda like Barry Goldwater) but Doughy Pantload would probably call him a librulfascist.

  41. 41
    laneman says:

    So (geektest!) did he or did he not carry a Remington Mark XX blaster in a thigh holster under that kilt?

    Please, let us not think of what worn under a kilt.

  42. 42
    myiq2xu says:

    Then you’d remember his mama Maureen and his “daughters” Lapis Lazuli and Lorelei Lee, right?

    So (geektest!) did he or did he not carry a Remington Mark XX blaster in a thigh holster under that kilt?

    Let’s not forget Adorable Dora! Laz & Lor were his sisters, not daughters, and RAH musta had some issues cuz he spent a lot of time talking ’bout incest.

    I believe there was a blaster under there along with a knife, but I never peeked.

  43. 43
    pharniel says:

    demimondian Says:

    at least ron paul can do the ‘cross of gold’ speach and get a chuckle from the audiance
    Except the Cross of Gold speech was in favor of inflated fiat currency. It was the bankers who wanted to retain the gold standard and unwind the Civil War Era inflation.

    heh. didn’t take that from the speech when we listened to it. STory we got was that they wanted to maintaint he silver standard because…well yha, alot of things.

    so maybe ron can do the “cross of MBS”? or a cross of bailouts for the MBS?

    also someone recently described teh activities of teh investment class as accross the board ‘sociopathic’, specifically new century execs, most of wallstreet and credit card companies.

    huckabie is as much a threat to them, as he’d prolly take seriously usery. while he might not dismantle modern backing he’d prolly be easy to convince that 33% intrest rate when the fed is at 5 something is ussery and aught not to be allowed.

  44. 44
    ThymeZone says:

    It’s the repeated tragedy of American religious wakenings

    It’s a repeated cycle of demagoguery and exploitation of these people. It doesn’t take much Rovism to scare or rouse them into a lather over something that makes them lose track of their real interests.

    Defense of Marriage? A sudden interest in an immigration situation that hasn’t changed much in 75 years?

    The morons don’t come up with this stuff on their own, it has to be manufactured for them.

  45. 45
    laneman says:

    Heinlein is considered by many to be the father of the science fiction genre, and even though some of his early stories are now outdated, they are still fun to read.

    Edgar Rice Burroughs

    Edward Smith

    Heinlein is classic, but not a progenitor of the genre.

  46. 46
    Buck says:

    myiq2xu @ 1:04pm,

    Very well put!

  47. 47

    Yeah, I’d vote for E. E. “Doc” Smith (Edward Smith) as the progenitor of the modern “hard SF” genre. But I’d accept a nomination of Jules Verne.

  48. 48
    libarbarian says:

    And happy Saturnalia, you putz.

    I don’t you should be discriminatory Prof. Cole :-). Dec. 25th was celebrated by many cultures because it was the winter solstice from IIRC about ~2200-200 BCE. It may be true that Christmas is celebrated then just because the Pagans were already used to it, but it also may be true that the Solar symbolism of Christianity always existed from its creation and was not, and did not need to be, added later for the Pagans. I personally think the Pagan symbolism in Christianity was in there from the beginning.

  49. 49

    Oh, and interesting sidelight, which makes the whole Scudder thing more amusing: Doc Smith was a Mormon, and a lot of his imagery is explicitly drawn from or directly influenced by the rituals of the LDS.

    SO, R.A.H….maybe just a bit of professional jealousy there?

  50. 50
    ThymeZone says:

    Green Bay officials approved putting a Festivus Pole at City Hall. The pole was requested by Sean Ryan of the Green Bay area

    Goddam! Sometimes we are just proud to be Americans!

    { courtesy DKos }

  51. 51

    More than that, Ryan is a active Catholic. That makes me even prouder — somebody who understands that we are better served by a wall between the institutions to protect both than we would be a fortress build around both of them from the world.

  52. 52
  53. 53
    Dug Jay says:

    Why are you discussing this load of crap when important issues are out there? For example, John Kerry has been pressuring cable companies and the NFL to reach an agreement so that more people could see Saturday’s possibly history-making game between the undefeated New England Patriots and the New York Giants. Taking a leaf from the Schiavo affair, he is threatening to get Congress into the act to open up the NFL game to people living in his home state and elsewhere.

  54. 54
    Dreggas says:

    ThymeZone Says:

    Green Bay officials approved putting a Festivus Pole at City Hall. The pole was requested by Sean Ryan of the Green Bay area

    Goddam! Sometimes we are just proud to be Americans!

    { courtesy DKos }

    We have a wall at work that everyone was invited to put little paper shapes on (tree’s etc.) with christmas sayings in their various cultures (we have many) everyone did the obligatory “Merry Christmas” and bible verses and of course the other cultures and languages, I posted Happy Fesitvus.

  55. 55
    myiq2xu says:

    It may be true that Christmas is celebrated then just because the Pagans were already used to it, but it also may be true that the Solar symbolism of Christianity always existed from its creation and was not, and did not need to be, added later for the Pagans.

    If the Book of Matthew is correct, Jeebus wasn’t born on or even near December 25th, because the shepards were supposedly in the fields keeping watch over their flocks by night. Not likely at that time of year.

    BTW – His name wasn’t even Jesus, it was probably something like “Yeshua.”

  56. 56
    Dreggas says:

    Dug Jay Says:

    Why are you discussing this load of crap when important issues are out there? For example, John Kerry has been pressuring cable companies and the NFL to reach an agreement so that more people could see Saturday’s possibly history-making game between the undefeated New England Patriots and the New York Giants. Taking a leaf from the Schiavo affair, he is threatening to get Congress into the act to open up the NFL game to people living in his home state and elsewhere.

    Why do republicans hate football and by extension America?

  57. 57
    myiq2xu says:

    Festivus was yesterday. Saturday was National Orgasm Day, I hope everyone donated.

  58. 58
    Dug Jay says:

    Coke Jihad asks: why isn’t Dreggas locked up at Guantanamo?

  59. 59
    myiq2xu says:

    undefeated New England Patriots

    As a die-hard Raiders Fan let me say FUCK the Patriots, FUCK Tom Brady and FUCK THE MOTHERFUCKING “TUCK” RULE!!!!

    Okay, I feel better now.

  60. 60
    myiq2xu says:

    Coke Jihad asks: why isn’t Dreggas locked up at Guantanamo?

    Because he’s using a laptop somewhere along the border between Pakistan and Afganistan. Or is it Wonderland and Neverland?

  61. 61
    alphie says:

    Isaac Newton, a very pious man, figured all organized churches were just another test of true faith that God placed on earth.

    If you still believed after realizing how corrupt and stupid the folks who “Christian” churches are, you’re a real Christan.

    He also thought the anti-Christ would come from an organized church…

  62. 62
    Dreggas says:

    myiq2xu Says:

    Coke Jihad asks: why isn’t Dreggas locked up at Guantanamo?

    Because he’s using a laptop somewhere along the border between Pakistan and Afganistan. Or is it Wonderland and Neverland?

    Or it could be somewhere on the border between california and Mexico but what can I say? Not like any of these asshats knows geography anyway.

  63. 63
    Dreggas says:

    alphie Says:

    Isaac Newton, a very pious man, figured all organized churches were just another test of true faith that God placed on earth.

    If you still believed after realizing how corrupt and stupid the folks who “Christian” churches are, you’re a real Christan.

    He also thought the anti-Christ would come from an organized church…

    Of course he will. How else do you think he’ll get enough sheep following him? I mean if you are cynical and grounded firmly in reality are you going to believe the next nut who comes along promising a bunch of crap then delivering only lies? Of course not, but if you have faith and believe people like Benny Hinn or the pope or that guy up in the pulpit every sunday then you’ll be led one after another like lambs to the slaughter.

  64. 64
    myiq2xu says:

    Not like any of these asshats knows geography anyway.

    They don’t like science and they don’t like the “Liberal Arts” either.

    They must get their degrees in basket weaving or underwater BB stacking.

  65. 65

    I think that Dreggas is hiding out somewhere in the wild, largely lawless region between Mexico and Canada.

  66. 66
    myiq2xu says:

    Of course he will. How else do you think he’ll get enough sheep following him?

    Why go to the trouble of starting your own church when you can take over somebody else’s?

    Sheep rustling?

  67. 67

    They must get their degrees in basket weaving or underwater BB stacking.

    They have degress in mercury vapor breathing. All of them.

  68. 68
    myiq2xu says:

    I think that Dreggas is hiding out somewhere in the wild, largely lawless region between Mexico and Canada.

    Which state? Confusion or Intoxication?

  69. 69
    Dreggas says:

    myiq2xu Says:

    I think that Dreggas is hiding out somewhere in the wild, largely lawless region between Mexico and Canada.

    Which state? Confusion or Intoxication?

    On a good day I linger in the border town of confused intoxication.

  70. 70

    There are a lot varieties of Christianity and to lump the religious proponents of Civil Rights, etc with the Religious Right is simply silly. A large percentage of Democrats are religious, it may be a different flavor of religion, but it is still primarily Christianity.

    BTW, while immigration has not changed by a material percentage of population over the last 75 yrs, illegal immigration expanded after RR’s amnesty, grew even more post NAFTA, and exploded under GWB. Thymezone may not be in an affected class, but there a lot people who are. When the rug gets pulled out from under the bottom the middle begins to slip as well.

    I’d like to see the Huck win the Primary, I don’t know that the Rs would learn anything other than to not run one of him again, but a person can hope. The Religious Right is not going to go away, they’ve been given a taste of faux power and now they want the real thing. Whether they stay with the Rs or not is open to question, but when they smell a chance they vote. Voting demographics show that in their primary economic strata they are the big voters. Probably you could attribute some of that to the belief of the rest of that strata that their vote doesn’t count. (demonstrably true).

    Democrats have pushed some voters, notably gun owners, into a Party they do not, in great part belong. It isn’t much wonder the R is such a mess of conflicting vote interests. I’m getting as much enjoyment out of watching them thrash as anybody else.

    Oh well, Merry merry and all that shit

  71. 71
    Dreggas says:

    myiq2xu Says:

    Of course he will. How else do you think he’ll get enough sheep following him?

    Why go to the trouble of starting your own church when you can take over somebody else’s?

    Sheep rustling?

    Of course, hell why reinvent the wheel? It’s not worth the effort when there are enough willingly blind supplicants to follow you. I always said the anti-christ wouldn’t stand a chance on earth in general because human beings can’t agree enough on shit to follow one person, thus the inherent illogical presumption that an anti-christ would be able to unite the world and the need to call all other religions heretical/satanic etc.

  72. 72

    There are a lot varieties of Christianity and to lump the religious proponents of Civil Rights, etc with the Religious Right is simply silly

    Not really, Chuck.

    I’m positing a pattern: each “Great Reawakening” starts with a push for reform in one group of churches, and ends up in a crushing defeat after it’s taken over by the bad guys. That was certainly the case in the Reawakening in the mid-19th through early twentieth century, and (it appears) in the mid-20th through early 21st century.

  73. 73
    Cain says:

    Some guy here in Oregon is protesting christmas by having scene where Santa is crucified. I’m not sure what he’s trying to say there. Maybe that Santa will rise from the grave on the next coming Sunday? I’m sure the kids were impressed. They might never look at the cross the same again.

    cain

  74. 74
    Dreggas says:

    Cain Says:

    Some guy here in Oregon is protesting christmas by having scene where Santa is crucified. I’m not sure what he’s trying to say there. Maybe that Santa will rise from the grave on the next coming Sunday? I’m sure the kids were impressed. They might never look at the cross the same again.

    cain

    Nah, there’ll be eggs hidden in and around the crucifixion scene placed there by a cute little bunny.

  75. 75
    Dreggas says:

    oh My personal fav of fuckin wit the fundies is watching them go off on Santa being an anagram for satan or some such along with the red suit – > devil.

  76. 76
    RSA says:

    Do they explain why “live” is an anagram for “evil” by way of Original Sin?

  77. 77
    myiq2xu says:

    Do they explain why “live” is an anagram for “evil” by way of Original Sin?

    Don’t forget that “God” is “dog” spelled backwards. But I’m guessing He ain’t no bounty hunter.

  78. 78
    Stoic says:

    That’s Rev. Putz to you, m*th*rf*ck*r.

  79. 79
    Dug Jay says:

    Let’s make this an “equal opportunity” anti-religious thread…and Fuck Muhammad and the horse he rode in on.

  80. 80
    myiq2xu says:

    Let’s make this an “equal opportunity” anti-religious thread…and Fuck Muhammad and the horse he rode in on.

    Don’t forget Brahman and Cthulu and Zoroaster.

    Fuck ’em all and let . . .them sort ’em out.

  81. 81
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Unfortunately, I suspect for many of the Republican Remnant the real (as opposed to pretextual) problem with Huckabee is his stopped-clock opposition to torture

    Also, the fact that he raised taxes, which pretty much makes him the personification of pure evil to them.

  82. 82
    Dreggas says:

    myiq2xu Says:

    Let’s make this an “equal opportunity” anti-religious thread…and Fuck Muhammad and the horse he rode in on.

    Don’t forget Brahman and Cthulu and Zoroaster.

    Fuck ‘em all and let . . .them sort ‘em out.

    Leave Cthulu out of this, at least he’s clear in his motives and will devour everyone without a care for religion, sex, sexual orientation, party affiliation, race, or any other subtypes.

  83. 83
    myiq2xu says:

    This should really help him in the South:

    (via TPM)

    Ron Paul said on Meet the Press yesterday that the American Civil War was a mistake (brought on by a power-hungry Abraham Lincoln) and came out for so-called “gradual emancipation.”

  84. 84
    Robert Johnston says:

    Leave Cthulu out of this, at least he’s clear in his motives and will devour everyone without a care for religion, sex, sexual orientation, party affiliation, race, or any other subtypes

    Not true. Cthulu has a special place in his cold, unbeating heart for the batshit crazy. Which kinda means that he cares about religion and party affiliation a great deal. Wingnuts beware!

  85. 85

    Yeah, myiq — I was wondering what truths FDDD had learned about American history when she attended high school — in Arkansas contemporaneously with Mr. Huckabee. Apparently they teach different facts in different parts of the state; she learned about the South attacking Fort Sumter, just like I did.

    Guess those librulfascistkristhatorz didn’t get the story rewritten everywhere, eh?

  86. 86
    Jen says:

    Dance with them that brung you, Repubs! Merry Christmas, but a very sad new year. :(

  87. 87
    myiq2xu says:

    The Repugnants are in the position of a guy who sows wild oats and then prays for a crop failure.

  88. 88
    Darkness says:

    Randy Paul Says:

    I’m a regular mass-attending Roman Catholic, but I have little patience with those who attribute every single event to “God’s will.”

    Christianity has to do a lot of contorting to cater to what appears to be a human penchant/instinct for a “personal” god. I just spent a month in India where a far more copious pantheon provides every individual (with some traditions based on caste or job) to select a god that matches their needs. That certainly would help make things “personal”. The invention of the saints was a half-way measure along these lines, giving cities, industries, and individuals access to a divinity a little closer to earth and human experience. Crediting the Big Guy with such small tweaks to one’s existence, catered just to you, smacks of ego too big to contemplate, really. Come on, you are that freakin’ important to the cosmos that YOUR reality has been twisted around (often to the deficit of someone else) to make your life better? By the creator of the universe Himself? Wow. And your head hasn’t swelled too big to fit inside your car?

    This woman in my town was misfortunate enough to have a crane cable fall on her car while driving by a construction site. She reported that “God had saved her” and I thought, helloooo, if you believe that, you also have to believe that “God threw a thousand pound cable onto your car”. Doesn’t sound as nice that way, and you’d probably not want to leave your house if you believed that, but it’s either both or neither.

  89. 89
    Dreggas says:

    This woman in my town was misfortunate enough to have a crane cable fall on her car while driving by a construction site. She reported that “God had saved her” and I thought, helloooo, if you believe that, you also have to believe that “God threw a thousand pound cable onto your car”. Doesn’t sound as nice that way, and you’d probably not want to leave your house if you believed that, but it’s either both or neither.

    Oh no, you see the devil did that *nods like a wing nut*

  90. 90
    Stoic says:

    Oh no, you see the devil did that nods like a wing nut

    And God, being infinitely more powerful than (and the creator of) Satan is therefore responsible for all the evil in the world. (Swish)

  91. 91
    alphie says:

    Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opiate of the people.

    — A very smart man

  92. 92
    myiq2xu says:

    And God, being infinitely more powerful than (and the creator of) Satan is therefore responsible for all the evil in the world. (Swish)

    It wasn’t negligence either – it was intentional. After all, isn’t God omniscient? Doesn’t he know everything that is, was and will be? He knew what was gonna happen before he even said “Let there be light.” When you take an action, the law presumes you intend the foreseeable consequences of that action.

    That means the motherfucker planned this mess we’re in.

  93. 93
    craigie says:

    I just watched Pitch Black, and Riddick says the same thing. The holy man starts giving him all this God will save us stuff, and Riddick snorts, and the holy dude says I know you don’t believe, and Riddick says “Oh I believe in God. And I hate the motherfucker.”

  94. 94

    After all, isn’t God omniscient? Doesn’t he know everything that is, was and will be? He knew what was gonna happen before he even said “Let there be light.” When you take an action, the law presumes you intend the foreseeable consequences of that action.

    Dreggas, do you want our resident amateur theologian to answer you? C’mon, man, you know we space-ghost followers aren’t that stupid — d’you think we don’t have an answer for that question?

    If you’re interested, I’ll try to answer — but if you’re just venting, then I won’t bore you.

  95. 95
    myiq2xu says:

    If you’re interested, I’ll try to answer—but if you’re just venting, then I won’t bore you.

    Lemme guess, your explanation will be one of those rationalization wildcards like “God works in mysterious ways.”

    BTW – it was me, not Dregs, I’m an amateur gyhecologist, not theologian, and if by “venting” you mean “farting” then you’re 1 for 3.

  96. 96
    TenguPhule says:

    Let’s make this an “equal opportunity” anti-religious thread…and Fuck Muhammad and the horse he rode in on.

    Dug Jay, not only Pro-Gay, but Pro-Beastiality too.

  97. 97
    TenguPhule says:

    What a relief.

    Yes, the Israelis have lowered themselves to the level of Palistinians…truly dissappointing.

  98. 98
    myiq2xu says:

    Yes, the Israelis have lowered themselves to the level of Palistinians…truly dissappointing.

    Jesus might have been a DFH, but God must have been a neocon.

    He “gave” the land of Canaan to the Hebrews, and told them to drive out or kill the people who happened to already be living there.

    I guess the Canaanites were the children of a lesser god.

  99. 99
    McMartin says:

    myiq: I’m an agnostic, but my preferred answer to the Problem of Evil is “immutable natural laws are a sufficient good to outweigh pretty much everything else.”

    Of course, that also requires throwing out miracles that break the laws of physics, and if you apply it to the kinds of evils that humans do to one another, it also throws out souls (at least as determinants of behavior). So it goes.

    It’s easier to just throw out omnipotence, since even five-year-olds can point out the paradoxes caused just by the concept.

  100. 100
    myiq2xu says:

    Since Jesus was Jewish, do bigots refer to him as a “Christ-killer?”

  101. 101
    myiq2xu says:

    It’s easier to just throw out omnipotence

    I used to think I was omnipotent, but it turned out I didn’t hear the doctor correctly.

    He gave me a prescription for Viagra, so it’s okay now.

  102. 102
    Punchy says:

    Where were you when Bush was setting back Stem Cell research a decade?

    Why is this in the past tense?

  103. 103
    ViVeLaMe says:

    BTW, while immigration has not changed by a material percentage of population over the last 75 yrs, illegal immigration expanded after RR’s amnesty, grew even more post NAFTA, and exploded under GWB.

    Well, yeah. Globalization anyone?
    We have to fleece them over there so they won’t oh wait…

  104. 104
    Richard Bottoms says:

    I think we do better to encourage the people who are finally waking up to the Beast that is the Republican side of the political country, and welcoming them to the world of reality and stuff.

    And I say fuck ’em.

    They’ll be gone as soon as the next Republican candidate comes along who can hide the fact that he is batshit crazy a little better than the current crop of assholes.

  105. 105
    Cyrus says:

    BTW – His name wasn’t even Jesus, it was probably something like “Yeshua.”

    This is one bit of historical accuracy that I don’t hold against anyone. Names get translated and transliterated — it happens. It’s nice knowing the etymology of stuff, but that’s about it. “Cyrus” is the Greek version of the name of a Persian king who called himself something more like “Kourosh,” I think, but I’m not obligated to learn whatever the language of Persia was in the fifth century B.C. to find out how I’m supposed to pronounce my own name.

    Since Jesus was Jewish, do bigots refer to him as a “Christ-killer?”

    As I understand it, based on something or other I read at Orcinus, the really philosophical anti-Semites are ambivalent at best about Christianity because it was founded by a Jew. They believe in, I don’t know, Odin or something.

  106. 106
  107. 107
    Svensker says:

    So (geektest!) did he or did he not carry a Remington Mark XX blaster in a thigh holster under that kilt?

    Hah, back to Lazarus Long. NO, he DID NOT carry a blaster under that kilt. He had a knife strapped to his hairy thigh, thought that a machine would make one too dependent on technology working right to risk survival.

    Actually, that could be Heinlein’s First Law: Minimal Weaponry Skillfully and Thoughtfully Used Outweighs Big Macho Guns Every Time.

    Do I get the geek prize? Do I, huh? Do I?

    (I still enjoy re-reading Heinlein, specially his early stuff, but have to admit every time one of his male characters slaps a redhead on the butt, it makes me twitch. Not in a good way.)

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