A follow up to John’s post about the cop who tasered a motorist for not signing a speeding ticket. The investigation has now “sped up” as a result of the motorist posting the video on YouTube.
Authorities are expediting an investigation of a state trooper who zapped a motorist with a Taser after video of the incident was posted on YouTube, the Utah Highway Patrol said Wednesday.
“It definitely put a little bit of conflict out there. We definitely have received a lot of feedback on it, calls and e-mail,” said Trooper Cameron Roden, a spokesman for the highway patrol. […]
Utah Highway Patrol Spokesman Sergeant Jeff Nigbur told Smith that he could not comment on whether the trooper’s conduct in the video was standard operating procedure. “We have an internal review process happening right now,” he said. “We are going to look into whether the officer’s actions were appropriate or not.” […]
“I can’t speculate on what was happening in the trooper’s mind,” Roden said. “We have an internal investigation going on. … With it coming out on YouTube, we have expedited the investigation.” […]
Signing a speeding ticket is not an admission of guilt, Roden said. He described it as a promise that a motorist “will take care of the citation.”
Well, that answers the question about whether or not signing the ticket was an admission of guilt. As for what was going on in the officer’s mind? I don’t know. Maybe, “I’ll show this motherf***er that he ain’t gonna screw with a Poh-leeece officer” Just my opinion.
An editorial from the Salt Lake Tribune here.
Added: Call me a cynic, but when I heard that the investigation was being “expedited,” I read it as “Oh, now that people have seen the video, maybe we should actually start an investigation!”
jake
I believe your assessment of the officer’s “mind-set” is depressingly accurate, but I’m glad to hear there’s an investigation. Here in DC we have tons of different police forces and you start to wonder where the various agencies are finding so many people mentally and physically qualified to uphold the law and all that involves.
And then you watch some methed-up uniform screaming at some hapless schmuck because he set his backpack down to take a picture of the Capitol Building and you realize the various agencies either have really lax hiring practices or one of the questions on the app. is “Did you bully other kids when you were in school?” and they’re hiring everyone who checks “Yes.” And we won’t even discuss the zillions of losers and fuck ups serving as un-armed security guards around this place.
I say again: Thank God for camera mounted cop cars. Next we need camera mounted cops.
maxbaer (not the original)
From the editorial:
Maybe I’m just a lazy-ass, but if I’m the cop, I just write refused to sign on it and say have a nice day.
slippytoad
But you’re not a phallicly-challenged moron with the IQ of a brick, and you probably get your jollies some other way than humiliating and intimidating people.
r€nato
Regarding the UHP mouthpiece’s explanation, I always thought that the point of signing the ticket, is to acknowledge receipt of it – just like being served with court documents. That’s why one of the ways to dodge a photo radar ticket is to throw it in the trash. If you don’t acknowledge receipt in any way, the city is forced to hire a process server to serve you with the citation.
It’s more convenient for the cops if you sign the ticket. That’s why, generally, they try to talk/bully citizens into signing it though really it makes little to no difference in whether you’ll be found guilty. It’s just a little bit of insurance so that in case the citizen is one of those litigious types, he/she can’t claim they never received it, forcing the cop to attend the hearing.
FWIW, I don’t trust the cops for shit, and I’m an upper middle class white dude. Yes, if my home is being robbed then I want them here. Otherwise, I want nothing to do with them. I have had several first-hand experiences with bad cops and what fucking pricks they can be. Bullies with a badge and a gun.
r€nato
…Just a quick story about one of my experiences with an asshole cop. Back in my 20s, I lived in the asscrack of the valley of the sun, Mesa AZ. I had a male roommate – both of us straight, FWIW. Had an incident with an asshole apartment neighbor who blasted his shitty music at near-lethal levels and of course since he paid his rent on time, the mgmnt didn’t give a shit plus it was Saturday evening so no one was around to do anything anyway. Went to his door to ask for some consideration, dude was obviously an ex-con. Prison tattoos, over twice my size. Dude was drunk and didn’t like being told what to do, even politely. Came to my door and began pounding on it and threatening to kill me. Called the Mesa PD.
CopsFucking donut gobbling pigs show up and begin giving US a hard time. Seriously. As if we had started the whole thing and alleged that I had threated the ex-con. Cop would not listen to any reason whatsoever, including my side of things. I was young and didn’t figure out until later that the ex-con had talked to the cops first and very likely told him that we were a couple of faggots, which naturally appealed to the pig’s inner bigot.So, I had the naivete and temerity to write a letter of complaint about this asshole cop and the whole incident. Well, when you go down to the Mesa PD HQ, the ‘clerk’ or whoever greets the public sits behind glass panels and is perched at least a full foot-and-a-half to two feet over your head. You know, just to rub it in that you are just a lowly citizen and the only thing that stands between you and a jail cell for whatever trumped-up charge they can think of, is that all the paperwork involved would take away from precious donut-gobbling time. Of course, nothing came of my complaint. They’ve always got an excuse for anything they do. They are infallible unless caught on tape.
To this day I won’t spend a dime in Mesa, and as far as I am concerned all cops are assholes until they prove to me otherwise. Just because cops deal with assholes all day long – and I don’t deny that it’s a very tough job – it doesn’t mean everyone they come into contact with is an asshole, yet that’s how many of them behave.
r€nato
…as opposed to the usual sweep-it-under-the-rug “investigation”.
Catsy
I still have yet to see any of the news articles about this point out the stunningly obvious point that someone in the previous thread did: that the video clearly shows the cop pulling over to block the speed limit sign with his car. There’s a reason the guy didn’t see it.
I have almost no faith in our injustice system. It is not designed to arrive at the truth of the matter, it is designed to process the matter with a minimum of taxpayer dollars spent.
Michael D.
r€nato: I had a pretty crappy experience with a Fulton County cop when I first moved here as well. I was driving down Peachtree-Dunwoody road through a construction zone. I knew I was going about 5-10 miles over the speed limit. As I passed the cop, I said “Oh, shit!” The lights came on.
Of course, I couldn’t pull over, because there was nowhere to do it. I would have hit someone, so I kept driving slowly till I could safely pull over.
Anyway, thje cop gets out of his car and totally goes ape-shit on me for not pulling over right away. I apologized and explained to him that I wanted to pull over safely. I really could have hit someone if I had pulled over right away.
He yelled at me that he was chasing someone else and I kept him from doing it. I think that was total bullshit, by the way. But it didn’t matter either way. I had a female friend in the car and her jaw just dropped at the attitude of this guy. I had been living in Atlanta for only 3 months, and I still had my Canadian driver’s license. I know I should have changed it within a month as per the rules, but the cop took it as another excuse to tear me a new one.
It was my first experience with cops in Atlanta, and it really didn’t make me feel too good about having to use their services in the future. Fortunately, I did need them a couple years later, and the Atlanta City Police treated me great. BUT…..
Michael D.
I just got a new tenant here. He is from Nashville. Last Saturday Night/early Sunday, he was carjacked. Someone got in his truck at a light and pulled a knife on him demanding money.
Lewis just gunned the truck thinking a cop would pull him over. He got to an intersection ans started driving in circles. Eventually the city police stopped him and got him out of the truck, cuffed him, and put him on the ground. Lewis obviously understood that they would do this, he was driving erratically, but explained that the guy in the truck had a knife, and explained what he was doing trying to attract attention.
The cops kept yelling at him, and would do nothing to help him.
I know this sounds hard to believe, but the guy in the car was still in the passenger seat and STILL HAD THE KNIFE OUT.
The cops actually MADE Lewis give the guy $20, and they let the other guy go and didn’t even take his knife away.
The next morning, I wondered why Lewis was in his room till 4:00pm. I knew he was out late, but I didn’t think he’d be in bed. He told me he was up since 11am, but was too upset to come downstairs.
Here’s the kick. Lewis is black, and he thinks that this is the reason he was treated so unfairly. It might surprise you to know that in Atanta, African American police officers can be racist towards black men.
Lewis told me that the two white cops (there were two white cops, and four black cops) were nice to him, although only barely. He told me that the black cops treated him like crap, and as it was his first experience with police officers in Atlanta, he was extremely upset by the situation. I calmed him down and told him I would take care of it. I know a couple city councillors, and I am dealing with it. I know some Atlanta cops, and they are great, but this is ridiculous. Lewis doesn’t have an aggressive bone in his body, and would NEVER disrespect a cop. I know him well enough to know that this was entirely a cop thing.
RSA
You’re lucky they didn’t send you to Information Retrieval.
r€nato
Oh, I have another story about cops. Friend of mine was being chased by road-raging assholes in a van. it all started because they were tailgating her because she wasn’t driving fast enough for their taste (happens frequently here, Phoenix drivers can be rather rude). Friend is a small woman, short, about 24. These people were trying to force her into oncoming traffic, at stop lights they came up to her car and pounded on it, etc. The way she described it, it sounded rather harrowing and it went on for at least 10 minutes. There was no police station nearby and even though she was near her home, she certainly didn’t want to show them where that was.
Obviously she called 911 from her cellphone. They told her to go to such-and-such intersection, where a patrol car was waiting. Friend goes there, cop yanks her out of her car and puts her in the back seat of patrol car (for her protection). Crazy roadraging motorists get pulled over.
Well, even though there were witnesses to the behavior of the road-ragers, the cops were treating my friend like she was equally at fault (as if that’s any excuse to try to run someone into oncoming traffic, or to get out of the car and go to someone else’s car, beat on it and threaten their life), and they were going to let the road-ragers go free – regardless of the fact that they had two witnesses – until they searched the van and found drugs. At that point, they arrested them not only for possession but also for the reckless driving.
This happened less than two weeks ago. I’m sorry about your experiences, Michael. I understand that it takes a certain kind of person to be a cop, but really if they can’t learn to distinguish between criminals and citizens, then they are nothing more than thugs with legal sanction.
RSA
Doubtless with the permission of the owner–oh, wait, that’s not necessary any more in George Bush’s America.
RSA
(I didn’t mean to make light of your friend’s situation, r€nato, in case it came out that way. Sounds terrible.)
Michael D.
I should say that, although the police force in Atlanta IS corrupt, there are DEFINITELY some wonderful police officers here. I’ve dealt with them. I know they exist. Unfortunately, all it takes is a few jerks to ruin it for everyone.
It’s like any business. I work for a phone company. I know most of the people in the call center are happy in their job. If you call in and get someone who is an idiot, that is an anomaly. But you judge the whole company based on it.
Same with the police force. Unfortunately, the police can have a much more severe effect on your life.
D. Mason
I think the wife would have been justified in putting two in that cops melon. I bet the investigation into that would be well underway instead of just getting started.
r€nato
no prob RSA. Anti-Bush snark always A-OK with me.
Look, I know there are good cops. I have actually had experiences with them, about two or three times. I am FAR from the type of person who is always having run-ins with the law. I don’t live ‘on the edge’ so to speak, I am a white guy in a nice neighborhood.
No, I don’t mean that as, “I deserve special treatment.” It just makes me wonder, if so many everyday citizens like me keep running into bad cops or cops having a bad day or whatever… maybe it’s more than ‘a few’ bad apples. Every time some cop is caught on tape busting some guy’s head for no good reason, it makes you wonder how many times that happens when it’s NOT on tape, and it gets completely swept under the rug.
As for call centers, Michael you’ll be delighted to know that I am ALWAYS nice to CSRs until they waaaaaay cross over the line with me. I know that a call center CSR can really help you, or make sure you get no help at all. It’s a tough job that doesn’t pay nearly well enough for the crap they take from the general public (and the bosses), so I always treat them nicely, just like I always treat the waiter/waitress well.
Michael D.
Wow! That is the craziest comment I have ever seen here.
r€nato
Yeah, I think Sgt. Nigbur could have phrased that bit more artfully than, “Shit, we can’t cover this up now that the whole world can see it!”
I wonder if the powers-that-be at UHP will quietly lobby the Utah Legislature to make public disclosure of cop-cam videos illegal…
AnonE.Mouse
The driver(who seems like kind of an asshole,which is not against the law-yet) of the SUV acted like I’ve cautioned my kids not to in police encounters.The deck is stacked,and the trump card if one has the misfortune to find themselves in court is the lying that is second nature to many cops.
I worked EMS years ago,and while there were many occasions where I was truly grateful for the presence of the police,there were too many where cops like the clown in the video escalated the situation needlessly.I’m of the opinion he was baiting the guy to pass him.I would bet he was driving 10-15 miles below the speed limit before reaching the 40mph sign(which he purposely pulled to the right to obscure)with the SUV driver impatiently riding his ass.The driver then accelerated(as I would have) entering the 40mph zone to pass and get in and out of the oncoming lane as quick as possible.Hooked.
Having the driver exit his car was stupid for a couple of reasons.First and foremost is the danger of being a pedestrian with traffic flying by.I used to hate the exposure of accident scenes,which could be somewhat mitigated by the positioning of a vehicle(in my case,a large clearly marked ambulance with bright flashing lights).Despite that,there were occasions where the drunk,inattentive,or just plain stupid noticed too late.In the case of the video,the cop was obviously in an unmarked car,making it less likely to be noticed.
Secondly,if that driver had really been a badass,inviting him out of the car reduces a single cop’s odds considerably.Keep him sitting behind the steering wheel where he is much less of a threat until backup arrives,which it did a few minutes later.
Anyone know of any websites where people can display their cellphone or camera videos of Cops Behaving Badly?
D. Mason
Really? That’s cool. If a determination to protect someone I love from being possibly killed on the side of the road by a power-tripping psychopath with a badge makes me crazy then sign me up. I don’t believe a badge entitles someone assault people who give you attitude. That cop is a criminal thug and deserves to be treated accordingly.
r€nato
Anon, I am amazed the cop had him get out of the car if he didn’t plan on arresting him or if he was not planning on searching the car (which he wasn’t at the time). I’ve been pulled over a few times for speeding (but not in the last six years!!), and in EVERY instance, they do NOT want you getting out of the car. They want you to stay where you are, preferably with both hands in full view.
This cop was just running a classic speed trap and clearly he thought he owned the fucking highway. He’ll get a slap on the wrist (two weeks paid admin leave), which is more than he would have gotten if the video had never been posted.
r€nato
we have a justice system, not a blood vendetta system.
I think you can tell by my comments that I’m not an automatic cop-backer, but really… you would shoot a cop over something like that? Spending life on death row, how exactly would that help defend your pregnant wife?
Michael D.
I would rather see a cop in jail than a dead cop.
D. Mason
A vendetta would be if she had shot him after the fact. What I described would have been defense of a loved one.
Over assaulting someone I love to the point that they’re laying in an oncoming traffic lane, writhing in agony and continuing to be electrocuted? Yes I sure would shoot anyone over that and not feel a moments regret. I don’t assume you’re a cop-backer but you seem to have misunderstood my statement perhaps. No matter what the law says, that cop willfully endangered that mans life for his own convienience and at that moment I think someone would be justified in doing whatever it took to stop that.
Davis X. Machina
I would expect little help from the courts.
See Atwater v. Lago Vista for the state of play for routine traffic stops .
Incertus (Brian)
Then you’d wind up in jail, and deservedly so, especially if you used deadly force.
Mr Furious
Interesting link I found on the “Peelian Principles” which are often cited as the foundation for a model, ethical police force…
Obviously, that is only a philosophy, but it should be the philosophy hammered home as a starting point—not just to cops, but to the public.
This is supposed to be a free country, here people are innocent until proven guilty, and all are equal before the Rule of Law. Despite what this asshole cop thinks, it is no still the Wild West under the Rule of Lawmen.
Mr Furious
D. Mason. you ar not the only guy who thinks that… From my source on the Peelian Principles…
Now, I don’t quite agree with you or this writer that she would be “justified”, or that she should retaliate—but given the circumstances, the potential danger to her husband and her pregnant, hormone-flushed state with another baby in the car, I would NEVER convict her if she had laid that cop out.
That cop had crossed the line and became not only the instigator, but the criminal.
John's Minions
Goodness, this particular issue seems to be making a lot of people say things that they’ll likely feel a little silly about should they re-read these posts down the road…
AnonE.Mouse
Many of the comments on this and the previous thread address the issue of the expectation of our blind submission to authority.
D.Mason points out that there are those who would put their money where their mouths are when witnessing their loved ones experience an assault and battery by rogue law enforcement,particularly when those actions(which include the occasional murder of unarmed citizens)are unlikely to go punished by the courts or agency.
Different people have different thresholds of provocation.
ed
Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that anyone who routinely uses the term “bad guy” is one.
Mr Furious
I mentioned at the end of the previous thread that expanded on this incident, so head over if you like, and then bring the conversation back here. Skip past the recounting of the event if you like, but I include a transcript of the encounter in the comments, plus links to some even more appalling taser incidents…
D. Mason
I actually have a high threshold for provocation, I just don’t give any quarter to a violent thug simply because he has a badge. If a non-badge wielding citizen were doing what that cop was doing to my significant other I would react the same way. If the cop had acted inappropriately in a non life endangering way (roughing the guy up in the traditional sense for example)then I would say he should be dealt with in a much less harsh fashion. Speaking personally when someone I love is endanger of being murdered I really don’t give a shit about the law, sorry.
Mr Furious
Yup. In my non-online persona, I’m actually pretty non-confrontational, to say the least. It’s difficult for me to imagine ever being violent. But I will confess, since having kids, I have had plenty of moments when I don’t doubt that adreneline and the protective instinct would allow me to take actions I wold never foresee or premeditate.
I like to think that my natural, more diplomatic approach (yes, I’m serious) with a cop would have prevented this scenario from playing out with me, but who knows?
I would likely have refused to sign the ticket as well, and Officer Asshole might well have handled it exactly the same way—asking me out of the car so he could (surprise!) arrest me.
How would I react to a gun in my face? It’s happened to me one time in my life* and my reaction was to back away slowly—not unlike this motorist. I might well have been tased as well.
This situation was handled so poorly by the cop from the outset, that even the most polite, law-abiding citizen might well have ended up writhing on the pavement too.
*Different situation. I walked in on an armed robbery with my daughter—and my only thought was protecting her, no matter what. I placed her behind me, and backed us right back out the door. Should we just have hit the floor as instructed? Perhaps, but the situation happened so fast it was “fight or flight” time.
The same thing happened to this motorist. This cop drew a weapon on him without warning, tohis complete and utter surprise. He wasn’t thinking, rationally, “I better get on my knees like they do on tv.” He was fearing for his life.
RSA
Traffic laws differ in every state, and my understanding is that the boundary between a traffic infraction and a traffic misdemeanor is different as well. (I once had some asshole cop threaten me with a misdemeanor charge because I’d misinterpreted a traffic situation–I had no idea about where the boundary was, even in my own state, driving two blocks from my house.) I think most people would be surprised to be arrested solely for a traffic offense.
OxyCon
Since the video obviously came from the police cruiser, I wonder how it even got posted to youtube.
Enlightened Layperson
If Mrs. Massey had shot the cop, she would certainly have been put on trial for murder. The kind of seige mentality that leads to police brutality in the first place would have been reinforced. And my bet is public opinion would mostly have been on the side of the cop. Putting the video on YouTube — well, can you say Rodney King Part II.
Sometimes the pen really is mightier than the sword.
RSA
I wondered about that, too. It turns out that Massey put it up.
numbskull
Try clicking through to the editorial. If the video didn’t convince you to stay far, far away from Utah, the crap thinking in that editorial sure will.
Mr Furious
Massey got the video via FOIA request and put it up after two months of no response from UHP.
Conservatively Liberal
The Taser has become the weapon of first choice with cops. It is supposed to be ‘non-lethal’, but for some reason people are dying from getting hit with one. But they say it is non-lethal, so just forget about those who died. They are of no consequence.
I have far too many tales of personal experiences with bad cops to even begin relating here. Giving assholes like them a Taser is just asking for trouble. Power trip is right, some cops are on power trips due to their perceived power over us mere mortals. They are ‘The Law’.
The Blue Line will hold, and the cop will get away with it. I have seen cops get away with murder, so this is no big deal.
The Other Steve
I’m sorry, but I have a hard time getting outrated about this.
The asshole in the car was clearly an asshole and escalated the situation. He was provoking the cop, and he got what he wanted out of the deal.
It’s hard to call him a victim.
The Other Steve
It’s a good editorial, and a fair point. It’s a waste of time to arrest someone for a traffic ticket.
Incertus (Brian)
That’s the most ridiculous reading of those events possible. It’s dumb enough to make me question your ability to breathe without constant reminders.
D. Mason
You must have been watching some other video … this guy wasn’t being an asshole in my opinion, he was asking a fairly reasonable question when being ticketed for speeding. “How fast was I going?” doesn’t seem like an asshole question in that context.
Bob In Pacifica
Police And Thieves, written by Junior Murvin
Police and thieves in the street, oh yeah
Fighting the nation with their guns and ammunition
Police and thieves in the street, oh yeah
Scaring the nation with their guns and ammunition
From Genesis to Revelations
The next generation will be hear me
All the crimes committed day by day
No one tried to stop it in any way
All the peace makers turn war officers
Hear what I say…
+++
When I was a kid the group of people who were the bullies, the borderline psychopaths, etc., had the choice of either going into a life of crime or becoming a cop.
Subsequently I’ve met some fine people in law enforcement, but I’m sure that there is always going to be an element who is attracted to the profession in order to push, shove, swagger and cause pain in ways that they won’t let you if you work at the paint department at the hardware store.
Randolph Fritz
Well, maybe this video, and others like it, will start us on the road to police reform. It’s long overdue–like, a century or so.
jcricket
Unless the cop is in imminent risk of physical danger (or someone else is), tasering is not the appropriate fucking response to “someone being an asshole”. And without the whole “he was reaching for his pocket” BS (which was the go-to excuse for a while in NYC whenever the cops blow’d up an innocent black person) no one was in any kind of danger that required tasering.
This wasn’t even like that kid in Florida (?) who was tasered after being wrestled to the ground by a bunch of security guards. This guy was walking away, and he wasn’t appropriately warned.
The police are supposed to be trained to handle things like this, and this cop clearly failed that part of the course. I don’t think it’s any kind of indictment of the larger police force, just a really bad judgment call on one the part of one over-zealous trigger happy cop.
Psycheout
You people obviously have no proper respect for authority. It’s smart alecs who seem to think it is their duty to mouth off to the police, fine people who are doing a difficult and often thankless job, who create and worsen the sometimes confrontational relationship between those who protect and serve and mouthy punks who don’t respect their authority.
And I think it’s funny that some people try to make themselves sound all tough in a comment thread about how they’d confront this police officer, perhaps even using deadly force. Heh. More likely you’d be wetting your collective pants in fear. How “honest” of you. But it’s what one comes to expect from the unhinged leftists how gather here to howl at the moon.
Psycheout
Now “how” is an anagram of “who.”
LiberalTarian
Tell you what, you see that cop beat up that waitress in MA? Remember seeing Rodney King beaten to a pulp? Have you seen the police decked out in riot gear for peaceful marches lately? Did you see the people who were fired on (with rubber bullets) at the Oakland Port demonstration?
The Police are not our friends folks. People who not afraid of the police are fucking morons. Is it right, just? Hell no.
Are there good cops? Of course. Are there fucking nutcases carrying badges? Of course. How exactly can I tell the difference?
numbskull
“proper respect for authority”
Psycheout, I guess the definition of “proper” is key here.
As for “fine people who are doing a difficult and often thankless job”, well, assholes like the cop in the video will always have the slavish praise from people like you.
Try doing a couple of ride-alongs with police. I guarantee your outlook will change. Or, maybe not. You’re pretty far gone.
Psycheout
But you’re the “numbskull,” not me.
Svensker
Hey, I hear they’re hiring in Utah, you’d fit right in.
Gotta get the people to Obey, doncha know.
LiberalTarian
Psycheout Says:
“But you’re the ‘numbskull,’ not me.”
Power to the Sheeple!! Give ’em a good bleating, Psy baby!
demimondian
Psicko, please. I see that you’ve shut down B4B, so I realize you’re sad and distressed, but, really. You shouldn’t project you signal successes (there are two of them, right? Actually, is there even one of them?) on the rest of the world.
Psycheout
B4B has shut down? News to me!
D. Mason
That’s not news it’s trivia.
konrad
Pyscheout, I popped over to your website to experience your wonderful insights and your latest post kept going about LFO’s. What the heck is an LFO? A Law Forcement Officer? Coppers on cop sites generally refer to themselves as LEO’s, but your view of the world is a letter off I guess (to put it mildly).
Psycheout
Hmmm, I must have been thinking about synthesizers….
Actually dyslexia can be quite annoying. Thanks for pointing it out. I’d never have noticed that even after rereading it several times.
The Other Steve
What fucking right do you have to question my ability to breathe!?
You are going to shut the fuck up.
The Other Steve
I suppose one might consider it reasonable behavior if you suffer from asperger’s syndrome and OCD.
demimondian
Actually, Psicko, I think that you are properly constituted authority.
And I assure you that I accord you all the respect you’ve earned, and more.
Much, much more.
The Other Steve
He saw the cop pull the taser, who then ordered him to put his hands above his head, whereby he told the cop to fuck off.
And you seriously want to claim there was no warning?
Guys, this incident isn’t at all like how you are describing it.
Psycheout
Here’s how it should have gone:
Officer pulls over driver, writes citation, suspect signs and goes home. Signing the ticket is essentially bonding out instead of going directly to jail.
The place to argue over a citation is in court, not at the side of the road.
Use some common sense, people.
Mr Furious
Wrong. Here’s how it should have gone:
Officer pulls driver over, tells the driver what the infraction is. When the driver starts giving him crap, cut him off and tell him “you were going sixty in a forty (or whatever), you were speeding.” Write the citation. Explain what the signature means when the driver objects, “This is not an admission of guilt, it is a promise to appear or pay the fine.”. If the driver still refuses to sign, the cop writes “refuses to sign” on the ticket and hands it to the driver. “Slow down, Have a nice day.” Everybody goes home.
Use common sense and professional training and courtesy, Officers.
Mr Furious
Ah, crap, blew the formatting there, but you see what I’m saying…Even you psychout…
Mr Furious
You sure? I’ll let the incident speak for itself…
[02:10] Cop: “I’m giving you a ticket…what you’re gonna do—”
Motorist: “You’re giving me a ticket? Why? First, tell me why? I want to look at where that sign is.”
[02:17] Cop: “You’re gonna sign this first.”
[02:19] Motorist: “No, I’m not signing anything.”
[02:22] Cop: “Okay, hop out of the car.”
[02:27] Driver exits, follows cop back towards patrol car, is pointing back toward the signs.
Cop: “Turn around, put your hands behind you back!” [Already moving towards taser] “NOW!”
[02:30] Taser drawn, raised, aimed.
[02:33] Motorist: “What is wrong with you?”
[02:34] Cop: Turn around!”
[02:36] Motorist (backing away): “What the heck is wrong with you?”
[02:37] SNAP! Taser fired.
[02:40] Motorist screams in pain, collapses flat onto his back to the pavement. Screams/crosstalk, Shock lasts about 3 seconds.
The Other Steve
Go back to a 1:10… There you find the officer asking how fast did he think he was going. 68 miles per hour he says. The officer then says it’s a 40 mph zone. The guy claims he saw no signs. The officer says there’s one just back there, and another back another mile or so. At this point the guy starts arguing that there are no speed limit signs.
You keep claiming he didn’t tell him he was speeding, and yet it’s right there in the video. It’s the first words out of the cops mouth at 40 seconds in.
I don’t understand, why do you feel you need to purposefully misrepresent the video?
Psycheout
You left out the most important part, Furious guy.
How honest of you. Argue that. So the next time you’re pulled over, argue about it with the trooper, I dare you. See how far it gets you.
The officer on the scene is under no obligation to say pretty please. Presenting the suspect with a ticket which he can sign and go on his merry way is a courtesy. A courtesy which this mouthy, twitchy moron should have happily accepted. But no, having seen one too many tv shows, he fancied himself a “roadside lawyer.”
A guy who acts as his own attorney at the roadside during a traffic stop has a fool for a lawyer. And people who whine about it are idiots like you obviously are. Don’t like the law, try to get it changed. Until then, spare the rest of us the melodramatics.
Like this:
The idiot kept on arguing immediately after his “ride” at the business end of a taser. No harm done. But I suppose you’d have prefered another pig end up bleeding and left for dead on the highway. Your kind makes me sick.
Obey the law and don’t mouth off to the police who point out when you break it. Is that so much to ask?
Psycheout
What TOS said. I hate arguing with an idiot who’s intentionally being obtuse, but the moment the jerk was told to step out of the car, he was being arrested. The cop commanded him to put his hands behind his back. This obviously meant that the moron was under arrest. The trooper wasn’t trying to see how big the guy’s boobs were, was he?
The idiot then walked away from the cop, dismissing the fact that he was under arrest. That’s resisting arrest. At that point the police officer is required to do whatever it takes to get the offender into custody. After all, the guy could be going for a weapon or intending to flee the scene in his car or use it as a weapon against the officer.
Would you prefer that he wrestle the guy to the ground with no backup and another sympathetic adult, the moron’s wife, free to grab a shotgun and give him both barrels?
You probably would. I’m arguing with an idiot.
Psycheout
Because this pig’s behavior obviously proves we’re living in a police state. /sarc
When you have to make crap up to support your loony position, you only make yourself look bad.
OniHanzo
Fucking A, Psych…
between your knee-jerk apologism for Bush and your tongue up the ass of an officer that’s being investigated as a DIRECT RESULT of public outcry over this video… is there anything about unchecked power in an official capacity you won’t fellate?
FACT: The officer, under Utah law, is required to warn a suspect that he will tase them BEFORE he does so. Witness the disparity between what he NEGLECTED to say to Massey and what he tells the other arriving officer:
You will find the officer penalized for resorting to his taser far too soon. Mark my words.
Second, do you honestly think this is a good use of resources? Tasing individuals that don’t sign traffic tickets? It’s not like it’s the only copy or that “refused to sign” can’t be written on the signature line by the officer. They have his vehicle information. His record WILL be impacted and the fine levied appropriately, whether he speeds off or not (as if THAT contingency’s never happened in the history of traffic violations).
Instead it turned into a battle of egos… and frankly that kind of a pissing contest has no business on the side of the road, especially if the officer prides himself on any level of professionalism.
The idea is to use your weapon and/or pain compliance tools if you need them. Whipping it out early and unnecessarily just belies an officer who shouldn’t be out there to begin with. For his own goddamn safety if for no other reason.
It’s the love affair you knuckle-draggers have with pseudo-masculinity and state action without oversight that continues to fascinate. ‘Cause tasing people over misdemeanors… that’s what a real man would do.
Thank god you idiots live at the margins.
OniHanzo
And in addition, I particularly like Psycheout’s macho swagger that screaming after being zapped by a taser is melodramatic:
You armchair John Wayne types would shrug off a tase for the mosquito bite it is, singlehandedly defeat Virginia Tech from shooters and fight the entire Middle East with your tanned pythons and your lantern jaws, if we sissy faggots who, y’know, read and shit would just get out of your incredibly manly way. Ain’t that right?
Comedy gold.
bernarda
As someone comments at the SlcTrib site, the cop lied to his colleague. He said that he had warned the guy he would taser him. In fact, he gave no such warning. That cop has a god complex.
capelza
The cop lying to his colleague…the cop knew his actions were wrong right away and was already covering his butt…apparantly tnot thinking that there was a visual record or that it would never see the light of day.
You can parse it all you want, defenders of the UHP cop, but HE lied on tape. And apparantly taking a “ride on the taser” attitude does not bother anyone defending the cop? Or that the ashole threatened to taser the guy’s pregnant wife, or tasered to guy onto the highway…in the line of traffic…
Really, have we come to the point where a citizen has to be meek to an officer, one that is the citizen’s motherfucking EMPLOYER. Do not allow cops to become “above” the citizens they are paid to protect. I can’t believe some of the stuff I’ve read here…
capelza
I meant EMPLOYEE, not employer…
The Other Steve
He pulled the taser, and said “Put your hands on top of your head.”
For people who are not stupid, that’s a warning.
The Other Steve
You know, after reading some of the stupid comments here, I’ve come to the conclusion that maybe cops should come with warning labels.
I’m obviously out of touch with the stupid side of America, where we need warning labels on coffee warning that the contents might be hot, or the one I saw yesterday… a warning sign on an escalator warning people to wear shoes.
That was an impressive sign, it was larger than the sign that said “DOWN ESCALATOR”.
capelza
TOC…I did see the video. That you think this cop was even remotely legit scares me.
The point for me, is that we aren’t here to serve the police, they are here to serve us. Jared Massey may have been mouthy, but then he isn’t paid to “serve and protect”. The dude with the taser in his pants is.
More professional police please…and please move beyond the mindset in this country that the police are justified in what they do because they have a badge. If they can’t do the job without resorting to the kind of behaviour I saw then they should lose their jobs.
D. Mason
I agree! Because right now they’re labeled “to serve and protect” – that’s clearly not accurate.
louisms
Because cops are vested with more legal power than civilians, they ought be held to higher standards of behavior. Yet, as in this case, the opposite is generally true. Authoritarians like Psycheout (assuming he isn’t just an attention-seeking spoof) will always slavishly support virtually anything the boys in blue do, unfailingly faulting the civilian.
Clearly, the guy that cop stopped was a fool to behave as he did. But the cop was supposed to be a trained professional, Defusing the situation would have been easy, yet he chose instead, as cops so often do, to engage in a pissing contest with the perp.
LiberalTarian
The Other Steve and Psycheout are are fairly common archetype–they argue for the attention, the commendation. They are perpetual victims, because no one understands them, or respects them, or listens to them. So, they get their jollies being authoritarians, aligning behind a movement bigger than themselves. They ride those coattails to draw the distinction of power to themselves, just like any brownshirt enforcer.
They are not going to get, understand, comprehend or assimilate the notion that the public should not be afraid of the police. Public antagonism of the police endangers both the public and the police.
I hope that man loses his job because he tasered a man over a traffic citation. That police officer clearly has no sense of proportion. He felt powerless in the situation, so by God he whipped out his taser. He felt powerless because a man walked away from him? His manhood felt threatened because someone had no respect for his au-thor-i-tie? When did the police turn into Cartman?? Sometimes a person has to change jobs to retain their sense of self. It is time for that man to be a former police officer.
Psycheout
The intentional idiocy displayed here is astonishing.
You can second guess this cop all you want, but it’s an exercise in stupidity. You weren’t there, he was. You don’t deal with twitchy people who’d happily shoot him and leave him bleeding at the side of the road. He does.
You can claim he’s your employee all you want, but that doesn’t make you his superior.
If nothing else, I hope people take away this one important lesson: argue a citation in court, not at the roadside. Please?
Psycheout
I give up. You’re retarded. It’s cute how intentionally obtuse you are. Idiot.
capelza
LiberalTarian..even though I disagree with The Other Steve strongly here, he is NOT the same as the wingnut trolly crazy person that Psycheout is.
Please, know your posters before you lump crazy wingnut neo-con lapdaog with TOC.
Psycheout
Thanks capelza. Oh wait…
Attack the person rather than what they say, how very nice. How “tolerant” of you.
AnonE.Mouse
As I alluded to in an earlier comment,I worked EMS in a large metropolitan area where belligerent customers weren’t uncommon.It also wasn’t uncommon to beat PD to the scene.One didn’t have to be a genius to quickly assess who was dangerous and who wasn’t.Virtually always,the situations that raised hackles and/or spiralled out of control involved the intoxicated or psychotic,two groups who are usually pretty clearly labeled.Otherwise,it generally wasn’t too difficult to defuse volatile situations.Situations that escalated did so because some cowboy-acting-cop wanted it to.
To suggest that the cop in that video really felt threatened by Massey,it would have to follow that he’s probably too much of a pussy to be working highway patrol and making solo traffic stops.Otherwise,he should have used the same skills everyone else has to rely on 100 times a day to smooth a rough patch.
Experience has also taught me that defenders of this type of excessive force,like Psycheout and TOS,cry and whine as loud as anyone else when them or their own are the (unfair,of course) victim.
Psycheout
Yeah, your experience gives you delusions. I’d never argue with a police officer about a citation at the side of the road. I’d argue it in court. So I’m not going to be a “victim” like the idiot in this video.
So let me get this straight: do you recommend that people act like “roadside lawyers” like this moron did and ignore very clear commands from police officers? See how far it gets you the next time you go 25 mph over the speed limit. Good luck.
AnonE.Mouse
As I wrote previously,I thought Massey was acting the asshole.I’ve also counselled my kids on how to act during traffic stops,i.e.hands on steering wheel,ignition off,announce every movement,etc. to avoid over-reactions by assholes who happen to be wearing a badge.
But frankly,if you don’t think that hundreds of cops a day don’t control more chaotic situations than Massey’s by simply using their wits and words,you have a generally lower impression of the police than most of us here who are critical of the poor law enforcement skills displayed in the video.
Jess
Absolutely. People get silly when they’re being given tickets. And this guy was definitely being silly, but then again, he probably never researched what to do in a situation like that. It’s probably something all of us should do as a part of being responsible citizens, but the larger burden is on the cops, who are paid to know how to handle emotionally fraught and potentially dangerous situations professionally. Massey was clearly not a threat, and the cop was not in physical danger. But he was in danger of losing face when Massey refused to cooperate, and so he tasered him. He even said that repeatedly–“you should have followed instructions.” Massey was a fool, but the cop was unprofessional and should face appropriate consequences–when you have a badge that allows you to use weapons against unarmed civilians, you need to live up to certain professional responsibilities. Such as defusing rather than escalating situations.
And Psychout, I am perfectly willing to agree that the place to argue about tickets is in court, and that the guy should have signed the ticket and not gotten confrontational with the cop. Now are you willing to consider that cops have a responsibility to defuse rather than escalate situations, treat people with courtesy rather than bullying them, and use potentially lethal force only as a last resort? And that a cop who can’t manage to give a speeding ticket without turning it into a pissing contest, and can’t explain what happened without lying about it, is not honoring his profession, to say the least?
Jess
And another thing–the reason so many of us are harder on the cop than on Massey, is because a guy arguing about a ticket is not a threat to civilized order. But out-of-control cops and a lack of accountability for using weapons against unarmed citizens is a big threat to all of us. Even white Christian suburbanites. A part of self-governance is to monitor those with power, so we’re just doing our job here (unlike the cop). It’s a freedom-loving thing–some of you might not understand.
OniHanzo
Attack the person rather than what they say, how very nice. How “tolerant” of you.
How the hell you guys conflate tolerance with “categorical immunity for what assholish remarks I make” is something I’d love to see studied.
I do not think it means what you think it means.
AnonE.Mouse
Yeah,exactly the kind of thing I was referring to when I wrote of the Psychos crying and whining as loudly as anyone when they perceive themselves as victims,whether it’s defenders of police brutality who find themselves on the wrong end of a baton,advocates of tort reform becoming plaintiffs in civil suits,or commenters on blogs who refer to someone as “retarded” and then call foul when their own feelings are hurt.
Delia
In Eugene, OR a little over a year ago parents called the police one night because their bipolar 19 year old son was having a psychotic, suicidal breakdown. He was outside at 2 a.m. threatening to kill himself with a kitchen knife. The mom asked them to come without lights or sirens and talk him down. They came with lights and sirens blazing, ordered him to drop the knife, fired rubber bullets at him, and when he didn’t respond, killed him in a hail of real bullets. Now these weren’t Eugene hippies. The family is upper-middle class Mormon, and quite prominent in town. The father took the high road. He said he understood that the police didn’t know how to respond to mental health emergencies, but he hoped his son’s death could be the beginning of crisis intervention training for the police, and he’s tried to lead a task force to that end.
The law enforcement response? Well, the EPD added tasers to their arsenal, as a less-lethal alternative weapon(!) And just this week the Oregon Peace Officers Association awarded a medal of valor to the cop who fired the lethal shots into the boy for his role in the crisis. He accepted it and said some things which just reignited the anger in the whole town over the kid’s death.
So, draw your own conclusions. Too often it looks like the police no longer are interested in seeing themselves as part of the community of ordinary citizens and are more interested in their ability to intimidate and rule.
The Other Steve
I couldn’t have said it better, myself.
Thank you, Psycheout, for standing up for goodness and righteousness.
The Other Steve
Damn, and here I thought it was just because I was bored.
Psycheout
Well I hope it has opened your eyes just a little, TOS. You go against the echo chamber around here and you’re automatically labelled an authoritarian.
Arguing with knee-jerk extremists is like banging your head with a rock: it hurts your head and makes you look like an idiot. Nothing good comes of it.
numbskull
” You go against the echo chamber around here and you’re automatically labelled an authoritarian.”
Waah! Waah!
It’s hilarious how you just can’t help yourself and so yet again prove the point(s) of about a dozen posters here.
Look, dumbass, just because 19 out of 20 people tell you you’re wrong and your mama dresses you funny doesn’t mean that you’re not wrong and that you’re mama doesn’t dress you funny.
You are and she does.
The cop shouldn’t have tased the jerk. Period.
Get. Over. It.
MonkeyBoy
I think the main problem was the cop is fucking stupid, with a contributing factor of being arrogant and macho.
The cop probably understands the mechanics of a traffic stop and the process of how the ticket works. But as common with fucking stupid people, he assumes that everything he knows is known by everybody else. Thus there is no need to answer questions or explain anything because the motorist should already know such things and any confusion on the motorist’s part is really a sham to avoid obeying and respecting the cop’s authority, and may be a sign of suspicious or dangerous intents.
steve
I work at a coffeeshop in Chapel Hill and cops are always coming in. I heard about this story yesterday and so when a cop came in today, I asked if she’d ever done traffic stuff, worked in a car. “Sure” she said. “What would you do if somebody refused to sign a ticket?” “They do sometimes,” she said, “So I just write ‘copy given’ on my copy and that’s that.”
AnonE.Mouse
I never called you an authoritarian,Psycheout.Your worship of power and eagerness to please suggest you have more submissive qualities.
louisms
Actually, submissiveness is one of the earmarks of an authoritarian. Most authoritarians are followers, not leaders. And, even among those who enjoy exercising power in their own domain, there is generally a willingness to submit to higher authority from above. So Psycheout fits the profile.
Delia
The authoritarians who don’t have anyone to kick in the public sphere are the ones who will go home to kick the dog.