Arise, Wingnuts, Arise!

Michelle sends out the distress signal to Greater Wingnuttia, and, predictably, it is she who is the victim yet again:

On Monday, I did something that has everyone from King Kos on down to the dregs (a short traveling distance, to be sure) screaming “Stalker!” What did I do? I went up to Baltimore and interviewed a tenant at health-care poster parent Halsey Frost’s place of business and drove past the Frost home. That’s not “stalking.” That’s not “harassing.” It’s reporting.

This is stalking.

Why did I take the time to go to Baltimore? Because bloggers raised questions about the Frosts’ financial situation and made specific reference to these pieces of real estate. I did not “harass” the Frosts. I simply reported what the tenant told me and described what I saw after driving by their home. My basic reporting rebutted some impressions left by other bloggers on the right who haven’t been to these sites and assumed they were high-end luxury properties. They’re not. Moreover, I corrected the mistake that some of these bloggers made in overvaluing the house at $400,000-plus. It’s closer to $300,000.

The bottom line remains:

This family made choices. Choices have consequences. Taxpayers of lesser means should not be forced to subsidize them.

Meanwhile, others are shifting the smear machine into neutral before most likely making a quiet exit from this debate:

Bloggers who helped circulate financial information about the family over the weekend backed off a bit Tuesday. “It’s the difference between Google and journalism,” said Rick Moran, who penned a piece for The American Thinker. “It’s been proven that the family was means-eligible.” His editor, Thomas Lifson, said, “It’s just more complicated than might have appeared in the first round of investigation.”

Both said the Frosts became fair game by putting their family in the political arena. They questioned Democrats’ decision to use a 12-year-old as their spokesman. “It just smacked me as being unfair,” Moran said. “You cannot criticize the program without being accused of going after the boy.”

And finally, if you want to know how crazy, and how stupid, and how destructive this latest flare-up in Wingnuttia has been, think of it this way- THEY LOST AJ STRATA:

Much of what I have to say is based on information in my first, long post from yesterday. A lot also came from reading the blogs left and right yesterday. The Frost family is of very modest income for the area they live. They make $45K a year in an area where the medium income is about $86K a year. To qualify for S-CHIP in MD they cannot make over $61K. They are not rich by any standard. And liquidating all they own an becoming totally destitute would not cover the medical costs of two kids with serious injuries and a long road to recovery. The folks whining about their choices need to start from the facts and the fact is they needed to get help for their kids and help was available to them.

They are self sufficient entrepreneurs who try to give their kids the best. They supposedly paid their taxes, which in my mind gave them the right to access those government programs. They have 6 wonderful children and they have stayed together as a family. As one leftwing site noted yesterday they are really a poster family for the GOP. And that is what should have been leveraged instead of the low-brow attack mode some have lazily come to rely on for political discourse.

Heckuva job, nutters.

And remember the Malkin creed: CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

The Frost’s chose not to sell their modest home to cover what would have been a fraction of their medical bills and become homeless, and therefore it is every patriot’s obligation to shit all over them every chance we get.

*** Update ***


The Frost elders, luxuriating on the front porch of their palatial mansion. (Sun photo by Barbara Haddock Taylor / October 9, 2007)

Big profile on the enemy in The Baltimore Sun. And check out the size of that pumpkin- it had to cost at least 15 bucks. Someone get Malkin and Riehl on that shit- choices, you know.

*** Update #2 ***

The Newshoggers:

Basically, she doesn’t approve of the choices that this family has made. Doesn’t approve of their jobs. Doesn’t approve of their home. Doesn’t approve of what the schools where they send their children. So she strongly, vehemently believes that the state of Maryland should have forced them to sell their home, burn through the profits and any savings they may have on medical bills, and then, once they were really poor, I guess we could talk about whether, as Michelle repeatedly states, “Taxpayers of lesser means should…be forced to subsidize them.” (Sorry, her statement is a more of a commandment, that taxpayers should not be forced to subsidize them.)






88 replies
  1. 1
    Billy K says:

    Did Strata really write “medium?” I can only assume he meant “median.”

  2. 2
    PK says:

    So do you think any of them are going to apologise to the family for smearing its name all over the internets the last few days?

  3. 3
    Focality says:

    Choices do indeed have consequences, Michelle.

  4. 4
    Bombadil says:

    And the Cole Theorem holds up once again!

    6.) “and then offer a meek apology a few weeks later.”

    “It’s the difference between Google and journalism,” said Rick Moran, who penned a piece for The American Thinker. “It’s been proven that the family was means-eligible.” His editor, Thomas Lifson, said, “It’s just more complicated than might have appeared in the first round of investigation.”

    OK, it was days, not weeks, but let’s not quibble.

  5. 5
    Buck says:

    And she has a following… WHY???

  6. 6
    whippoorwill says:

    His editor, Thomas Lifson, said, “It’s just more complicated than might have appeared in the first round of investigation.”

    To Moran’s editor,

    And your more stupid than you appear in any round of investigation.

  7. 7
    jenniebee says:

    Please note from that picture that Mrs. Frost has economized by giving up her brassiere luxury items.

  8. 8
    John S. says:

    AH HA!

    After a thorough photographic investigation (using Photoshop CS3 and my Dell Dimension 5500) I have determined from the tattoo on Mama Frost’s left foot she is clearly a welfare-queen liberal. She chose to spend at least $100 on that crude tribal piece of artwork, which is money she could have used to pay for 1/12 of a month’s health insurance premium. If she wasn’t high from smoking dope (or the tattoo ink circulating in her bloodstream), then she wouldn’t have hit that patch of black ice that caused her to crash her vehicle and give her children head injuries. Being a liberal has consequences, indeed.

    /wingnut

  9. 9
    Tim F. says:

    Would you describe Moran’s position as quietly backing away from another baseless circlejerk? Just asking.

  10. 10
    yet another jeff says:

    Sounds like an accurate description, Tim F, but that still holds to the Cole Theorem.

    So, it doesn’t matter who you are, if you disagree with the GOP party line, you will be called out in public.

  11. 11
    libarbarian says:

    What a bunch of hippies!

    They probably only need SCHIP because they spent all their money on pot.

  12. 12
    Bombadil says:

    Would you describe Moran’s position as quietly backing away from another baseless circlejerk? Just asking.

    I would have used the word “skulking”.

  13. 13
    Xanthippas says:

    I read AJ’s piece and he’s quite…reasonable. I still think he’s a fool to think that the free market can solve the health care conundrum, when the free market has had twenty years to do just that. But I agree completely with him about the WAY we should be talking about it.

    That being said, this has been a chance to read some really great blog posts here and at Sadly,No!, Ezra Klein, et al., as well as a chance to bait the maroons over at places like Riehl World View and Protein Wisdom.

  14. 14
    bs23 says:

    “It just smacked me as being unfair,” Moran said. “You cannot criticize the program without being accused of going after the boy.”

    WTF? I’m pretty sure Bush did exactly that. I certainly don’t agree with him, but the argument was pretty straightforward (it did fit on the teleprompter, after all): the government shouldn’t be in the healthcare game. Of course, that stance looks retarded coming after the Medicare expansion he signed off on, but nevermind.

    Moran should spend less time whining and more time making the argument if he thinks it’s a good one.

  15. 15

    Also, they’re wearing actual clothes, instead of barrels with suspenders … who do these moochers think they’re kidding?!?

  16. 16
    Bombadil says:

    “It just smacked me as being unfair,” Moran said. “You cannot criticize the program without being accused of going after the boy.”

    Especially when you do, in fact, go after the boy.

  17. 17
    John S. says:

    “You cannot criticize the program without being accused of going after the boy.”

    Besides quietly slinking away from another wingnutosphere episode, Moran is also entriely full of shit.

    It is quite easy to discuss the merits and flaws of this S-CHIP legislation without mentioning the fucking Frosts. It’s just that the wingnuts don’t really have a strong position for being against this legislation, therefore they choose to focus on the Frosts. Ezra Klein has already challenged Stalkin’ Malkin to a debate on the matter – without involving this family – because Michelle is, like, so concerned about making a “good-faith argument”.

  18. 18
    libarbarian says:

    Would you describe Moran’s position as quietly backing away from another baseless circlejerk? Just asking.

    Thanks for the mental image :)

    Rick Moran is walking by when he sees a bunch of guys standing in a circle, pants around their ankles, furiously wanking away. A surge of adrenaline hits him and without thinking he runs towards the group while clumsily attempting to unbuckle his pants. Upon arrival he drops them and begins furiously spanking away with the group. A few moments later however sanity returns and he looks up from his weiner, sees the others around him still manically pumping away, and it begins to dawn on him exactly what he is participating in. Slowly he reaches down, pulls them up, and begins to buckle them while backing out of the circle. “DAMN!” he thinks to himself “I have GOT to stop rushing in to those things!”.

  19. 19
    Bombadil says:

    Jeez, libarbarian, it’s bad enough you have these mental images — you don’t need to share them!

    Although, it is an excellent description of Moran’s modus operandi.

  20. 20
    cleek says:

    quietly backing away from another baseless circlejerk

    because he’d finished early ?

  21. 21
    Pug says:

    I went up to Baltimore and interviewed a tenant at health-care poster parent Halsey Frost’s place of business and drove past the Frost home. That’s not “stalking.” That’s not “harassing.” It’s reporting.

    No, Michelle, that’s stalking and the phone calls from your minions were harassing.

  22. 22
    jnfr says:

    Reporting requires you to get your facts right, which she didn’t. “Guesstimates” do not make for journalism, and calling down the wrath of your readers on some working family is not “reporting”. It’s rabble rousing and hate-spewing, and that’s all it is.

    I agree with Malkin on one point though – taxpayers of even lesser means than the Frosts shouldn’t have to subsidize them (I suspect most families of six making less than 45k a year don’t pay a lot in income taxes anyway). People who make more, especially those who are very wealthy, should be helping to cover health care for people like the Frosts. I’m not wealthy, but my husband and I have a good bit more income than the Frosts do, and I don’t grudge my tax dollars going to help them out.

  23. 23
    KCinDC says:

    I see that Malkin, perhaps having stumbled across some actual facts somewhere, has revised the value of the house down to $300,000. Of course the “half-million-dollar house” is already well established in the talking points (not that even that price is particularly high in Baltimore). I imagine it plays well to wingnuts who don’t live near big cities. For them, a half-million-dollar house is something very different.

  24. 24
    Punchy says:

    How can they criticize Mrs. Frost? She’s barefoot, which means she’s halfway to “barefoot and pregnant”, the orgasmic goal of every Republican I know.

    And I know how Mr. Frost can make some extra scratch–become easily the highest-paid John Denver impersonator in history. Just learn guitar, and not change a damn thing else.

  25. 25
    jcricket says:

    If it’s impossible for you to criticize “the other side” without resorting to ad hominem attacks, you have already lost the debate before it’s even started. But since the titular leaders of the Republican gangs/wolf-packs these days are Coulter, Goldberg, Malkin, Rush and Savage, it’s no surprise. All of these mouth-breathers have built their careers on baseless smears and ad hominems as the fundamental building block of the Republican party’s “logic” – just look at the titles of any of their books, for examples (let alone the actual writing).

    John – as a former Republican, don’t you think it all comes back to “psychological projection” – Republicans accuse people of being deranged, unhinged, angry because Republicans are those things. Republicans think everyone else wants to destroy us because they want to destroy everyone, etc.

  26. 26
    gypsy howell says:

    Funny, even when AJ is trying to get it right, he still gets his facts wrong. They have 4 children, not 6. Minor and inconsequential to the story of course, but kind of hilarious that he can’t even get that right. I guess fact-checking is an acquired skill and he is, after all, still pretty new at it.

  27. 27
    Xanthippas says:

    How can they criticize Mrs. Frost? She’s barefoot, which means she’s halfway to “barefoot and pregnant”, the orgasmic goal of every Republican I know.

    And I know how Mr. Frost can make some extra scratch—become easily the highest-paid John Denver impersonator in history. Just learn guitar, and not change a damn thing else.

    Ha. If only it were possible to rep the commentators on the blog. “Orgasmic goal” is my favorite new phrase.

  28. 28
    D-Chance. says:

    As spot-on as Mr Cole’s predictions as to the actions of certain right-wing bloggers (namely: Rick Moran) have been, it is also noteworthy that Michelle Malkin is also reverting to one of her most noted habits in all this… from bulldog to puppy dog.

    Yes, she’s hellfire and brimstone and frothing at the mouth and as big a public brat as any little girl can possibly be… until she’s called out on it. Then, it’s off to the Daddy’s Little Princess act, where she runs behind the protective pantslegs and looks up at Daddy with those tearful puppy-dog eyes whining, “They’re all being MEAN to me, Daddy!” And Daddy (her sycophants and fellow right wingnuts) will pat her on her little head and tell her, “there, there, it’s all right, Michelle, because you’re our Little Princess”.

    And off she’ll go, searching for the next big mischief-making event in her life.

    BTW, this Mr Lifson and his “It’s just more complicated than might have appeared in the first round of investigation”… isn’t that what one would call your classic ‘weasel statement’?

  29. 29
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Taxpayers of lesser means should not be forced to subsidize them.

    And as we all know, The Malkin and Her Flying Monkeys care deeply and profoundly about “taxpayers of lesser means.”

  30. 30
    D-Chance. says:

    KCinDC Says:

    I see that Malkin, perhaps having stumbled across some actual facts somewhere, has revised the value of the house down to $300,000. Of course the “half-million-dollar house” is already well established in the talking points

    It has to be. Including the word “million”, even with the “half” qualifier, makes the house seem like a mansion and the family seem wealthy to the average listener or reader. It’s wordsmithing to sell the story.

  31. 31
    jcricket says:

    People who make more, especially those who are very wealthy, should be helping to cover health care for people like the Frosts. I’m not wealthy, but my husband and I have a good bit more income than the Frosts do, and I don’t grudge my tax dollars going to help them out.

    At this point, whether people realize it or not, we’re all subsidizing the uninsured and underinsured, ineffectively (both in terms of cost and outcome). Every time people use the emergency room or free clinics because they can’t afford regular preventative care, it comes out of taxpayers pockets.

    If you added up all that we spend on public healthcare programs and our private insurance, and instead redirected it to something like a single-payer system, we could cover everyone in America and have 100s of billions leftover to spend. Basically, your actual healthcare spending (taxes + what your company reduces your salary for + your premiums + out of pocket costs) could easily be reduced by 50% or more and you’d get better care. Choose whatever doctor you want, switch jobs at any time, start a small business – you keep your care. Have a pre-existing condition? no problem.

    Or, we can keep overall spending the same, and redirect the extra 100s of billions to invest in basic science research.

    Up to you.

  32. 32
    Zifnab says:

    I agree with Malkin on one point though – taxpayers of even lesser means than the Frosts shouldn’t have to subsidize them (I suspect most families of six making less than 45k a year don’t pay a lot in income taxes anyway). People who make more, especially those who are very wealthy, should be helping to cover health care for people like the Frosts. I’m not wealthy, but my husband and I have a good bit more income than the Frosts do, and I don’t grudge my tax dollars going to help them out.

    Which is perhaps the final joke in a rofl-fest of epic proportions. Show me a family of 8, making 45k who pays a freak’n plugged nickle in income tax and I’ll show you someone who has never submitted a tax return. Six kids? Assuming 4 of them are under 17, they’re sitting on a $4k refundable tax credit. And if he runs his own business, he easily has thousands of dollars in write-offs. Odds are, at the end of the year, the government pays him.

    The idea that people poorer than him are somehow leveraged with his burden is just moronic. Of course, in Malkin-world, “people of lesser means” translates to “people who want another epic Bush tax cut”. Remind me again who got the brunt of the last tax cut? I can’t recall, but I’m fairly confident it wasn’t people making less than $45k / year.

  33. 33
    jcricket says:

    Including the word “million”, even with the “half” qualifier, makes the house seem like a mansion and the family seem wealthy to the average listener or reader.

    I live on a street with million dollar homes. Yet the old people who live on my block are hardly rich. First of all, they bought their homes 50, 60 or even more (seriously) years ago, when the cost was $10,000. Second, almost all of them have homes that are either structurally unsound or in serious need of repair. Third, if they moved, it would cost just as much for them to live anywhere as what they pay now (maybe even more). I would hardly think of the old people living in these run-down homes on a gentrified (by the likes of my generation) street as “wealthy”).

    But let’s not get facts stand in the way of Republican smears. Never have, never will.

  34. 34
    Jake says:

    “It’s just more complicated than might have appeared in the first round of investigation.”

    Yep. We have acheived the Passive Voice. On to the next debacle.

    Reading the drivelings of the same unhinged twats who were 100% dead certain that Jamil Hussein was a fig newton of the Left Wing Liberal Media Engine(TM) does not count as investigation. In this instance five seconds of research would have blown the intial “esitmates” out of the water. This should have called the rest of the “reporting” into question. No, I’m wrong. The fact that Intrepid Reporter gave an estimate, said it was “high,” but didn’t follow up should have been a warning to any real journalist that the actual story was “Wing Nuts After Blood Again,” which isn’t really news now that I think of it.

    The only question that remains is how many stinging defeats they can take before they shut up. Someone here (?) suggested Larry Craig has a fetish for being publicly humiliated. I’m starting to think he could start a club for his fellow fetishists at noon today and have a thousand strong membership by 12.30.

  35. 35
    dingo says:

    Michelle Malkin:
    I went up to Baltimore and interviewed a tenant at health-care poster parent Halsey Frost’s place of business and drove past the Frost home.

    Hmm. I guess that offically makes Ms. Malkin a member of the drive-by media?

  36. 36
    Ninerdave says:

    As one leftwing site noted yesterday they are really a poster family for the GOP

    **snicker** that was you Cole, you leftwinger you!

  37. 37
    glasnost says:

    Hey John.

    A counterargument, and from someone who really dislikes most of the rightosphere. But since intellectual inconsistency brings weakness, it’s best to shoot down bad arguments even when they are targeted at people we don’t like.

    So seriously: what’s the difference between ‘harassing’ a family of people and just asking questions about the story? If the NYT was doing what Malkin was doing, would it be harassment?

    In order for this to be harassment, wouldn’t Malkin have to be threatening these people, or lying about them, saying insulting things, or trying to get other people to say/do nasty things to/about them?

    I think Malkin has a point, and simply checking on reported facts in a newspaper isn’t neccesarily harassment. It could easily become that, but… is there any actual harassment behavior? Here? In this case?

    Just curious.

  38. 38
    D-Chance. says:

    Word to the unwise (namely Mrs Malkin): “It’s militant leftist bloggers who wouldn’t know a good-faith argument if it bit them in the lip.”

    Ezra Klein is ready. You DON’T want to do this.

  39. 39

    […] –John Cole notes how a 12-year-old’s verbal attackers now say they are victims and seemingly “backing off” in some areas. […]

  40. 40
    jcricket says:

    The only question that remains is how many stinging defeats they can take before they shut up

    Ooh, I know. Is the answer “infinity”?

  41. 41
    chopper says:

    It has to be. Including the word “million”, even with the “half” qualifier, makes the house seem like a mansion and the family seem wealthy to the average listener or reader. It’s wordsmithing to sell the story.

    can you believe that the frosts get government assistance?they’re frickin’ thousandaires!!

  42. 42
    Jon H says:

    No Republican in good standing can support the detestable “lifestyle choice” of entrepreneurship (spit).

  43. 43
    Jon H says:

    “. It could easily become that, but… is there any actual harassment behavior? Here? In this case?”

    Well, the cowardly skulking doesn’t say much about Malkin’s character. Why ‘drive by’? Why just talk to someone in the vicinity of the workplace?

    Why not talk to the family? That’s what a reporter would do.

    Is that not allowed because they’re on the other side?

  44. 44
    Jon H says:

    “—become easily the highest-paid John Denver impersonator in history. ”

    With a possible sideline as John Fogerty.

  45. 45
    Krista says:

    That being said, this has been a chance to read some really great blog posts here and at Sadly,No!, Ezra Klein, et al., as well as a chance to bait the maroons over at places like Riehl World View and Protein Wisdom.

    You’re smarter than I — you walked away from Riehlworld early. I’m still trying to reason with them, and the levels of FYIGM are starting to make me nauseous. It’s like some sort of visual poison.

  46. 46
    Jimmmmm says:

    “You cannot criticize the program without being accused of going after the boy.”

    Wasn’t that what Mark Foley said when he was asked to comment on congressional pages?

  47. 47
    TenguPhule says:

    My basic reporting rebutted some impressions left by other bloggers on the right who haven’t been to these sites and assumed they were high-end luxury properties.

    Shorter Michelle Malkin: I can lie through my fucking teeth without having to take Republican Dick out of my mouth!

  48. 48
    RSA says:

    I think Malkin has a point, and simply checking on reported facts in a newspaper isn’t neccesarily harassment. It could easily become that, but… is there any actual harassment behavior? Here? In this case?

    Just curious.

    I think that Malkin has to have some idea about the reaction of her readership, which will be much different from that of the readership of a newspaper. By analogy, if I posted some information about my family doctor on my blog, there’d probably be no harm done. If I posted the same information with a slightly different spin on an anti-abortion blog, I should expect a different reaction, harassment being a distinct possibility.

  49. 49
    The Populist says:

    Last time I checked being a shill for a party does not make you a “journalist.” Even when a journalist is trespassing and asked to leave they do.

    She is stalking. No question about it.

  50. 50
    pharniel says:

    what’s FYIGM?

    Also, a ‘real’ reporter would have called for an interview, talked to a few of the proponents and called ahead for interviews with co-workers etc.

    much like the sun article which notes that he DID shut down his buisnes and took up a job with someone else, and works ont he side. basically everything that redstate said he should be doing.

    also most papers wouldn’t have published an address at all, nor phoen #’s, like mr.s milken’s source3 did.

    in short, she was a salking asshole.

  51. 51
    John S. says:

    I think Malkin has a point, and simply checking on reported facts in a newspaper isn’t neccesarily harassment. It could easily become that, but… is there any actual harassment behavior? Here? In this case?

    Option 1: Real Journalism

    1. Call the Frosts to verify the details about them.
    2. Call the agency that handles S-CHIP in Baltimore to find out their situation.
    3. Talk to anyone else that can independently verify the Frost’s situation (i.e. doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.).
    4. Publish the facts.

    Option 2: Wingnutosphere Journalism

    1. Show up at the Frost’s house unannounced and spy on them.
    2. Guess as to what the Frost’s situation is based on their car, the value of their house and some Google searches.
    3. Talk to neighbors and co-workers to get the inside dirt on the Frost’s (do they throw lavish parties?).
    4. Publish their personal information along with your opinion of their situation and invite further scrutiny from the general public based on misinformation.

    Ya, that shit looks identical to me. Nothing like a private citizen setting out to destroy someone’s credibility based on theory and conjecture in the name of TRUTH! to bring out the concern trolls.

  52. 52
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Yep. We have acheived the Passive Voice. On to the next debacle.

    Heh, excellent point. What’s interesting, though, is that the move to passive voice also indicates that “the Frost family is filthy rich but still want its health care to be gub’mint subsidized!” is now an official Wingnut Known Truth.

  53. 53
    John S. says:

    what’s FYIGM?

    The official libertarian motto:

    Fuck You I Got Mine.

  54. 54
    jcricket says:

    I think that Malkin has to have some idea about the reaction of her readership,

    Oh, she knows full well what she’s doing. Dave Neiwart and the Souther Poverty Law Center have been chronicling the rise of the “lone wolf” (think Eric Rudolph) among right-wing extremists/terrorists for years. The “lone wolf” acts alone when he blows something up, but is inspired by the constant rantings of the talking heads and their support groups. This allows the talking heads to claim free speech protection, while continuing to incite their minions to attack in ever more ferocious ways.

    This is why Dave (at Orcinus) calls them “proto-fascists”. Same tactics, earlier stage. Limbaugh, Malkin, Savage, Coulter, Goldberg – all playing by the same playbook, just at a “simpler’ level.

  55. 55
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    what’s FYIGM?

    “Fuck You, I Got Mine”

  56. 56
    pharniel says:

    thanks. i think i now have one of my groom’s man gifts (nice enough guy, just sometimes heads towards big L ism from time to time)

  57. 57
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Last time I checked being a shill for a party does not make you a “journalist.” Even when a journalist is trespassing and asked to leave they do.

    Malkin’s pathetic claims that she is a “journalist” have long been destroyed. She’s about as much a journalist as I am an Olympic gold medalist.

  58. 58
    pharniel says:

    also, just noticed the aquateen reference.

    does that mean there’s the ULTRA MEGA WINGNUT out there?

  59. 59
    Bombadil says:

    My god, the Great Orange Satan his own self links approvingly to our Mr. Cole! Twice in the same post!

  60. 60
    scarshapedstar says:

    Speaking of consequences, shouldn’t Michelle “Anchor Baby” Maglalang be deported? You know, as a consequence to her parents’ illegally entering the country to spawn her.

  61. 61
    grandpa john says:

    I imagine it plays well to wingnuts who don’t live near big cities. For them, a half-million-dollar house is something very different.

    Well yes to anyone who has spent most of their life in a doublewide anything built on a foundation and not have axles and a tongue would probably seem rather palatial

  62. 62
    glasnost says:

    Well, posting addresses and phone numbers is probably a strike in the harassment camp.

    I think John S’s list is a helpful clarification of what’s actually going on. Still, some of those things on list 1 aren’t all that different from some things on list 2. (“Talking to neighbors” vs. “talking to… other people who would know things.”) Except for the personal info, I don’t think this would be all that out of line. I think J.C. is too quick to conflate Malkin’s general nastiness with the specifics of the situation.

    Concern troll, eh? Screw, buddy. You don’t know a thing about my political views. I just like clear rules of good vs. bad conduct.

  63. 63
    OxyCOn says:

    I find it very odd how “anchor baby” Malkin goes from one extreme to another at the drop of a dime.
    Something ain’t right here.
    One minute she’s a batshit crazy, raging, rabid dog leading a lynch mob of hate on a scorched Earth mission of destruction, the next she’s sweet, lovable, adorable Pollyanna, who is so misunderstood and who’s intentions are oh so f*cking pure.
    I’m thinking that from a very young age she learned how to be a manipulative bitch, playing her parents like cheap violins to get whatever she wanted. She really is the whacked out bitch, the Pollyanna act is to get what she wants. I bet Bill O’Reilly loves using the falafel on the Pollyanna Malkin.

  64. 64
    capelza says:

    glasnost…I have no problem with a respectful and earnest review of the family’s siutation.

    However…where was it?

    Now AFTER the big fucking freakout and harrassment and Malkin’s posting a direct link to the Free Republic poat that had the famiy’s personal info and such gems as this from RedState 9suppossedly a “grownup” in the rightie blogosphere):

    “Hang ’em. Publically, Let ’em twist in the wind and be eaten by ravens. Then maybe the bunch of socialist patsies will think twice.”

    A dainty, “Well, we should perhaps have some clarification of the rules here” seems faint protest. And why make them the focus of the anger at the bi-partisan approval of SCHIP? That they were ever the focus needs to be asked daintily as well.

    I still see people defending the behavior of these thugs because a boy made a radio broadcast and it is the parent’s fault or the Dems’ fault..because, well, because THEY MADE US DO IT!

  65. 65

    Both said the Frosts became fair game by putting their family in the political arena. They questioned Democrats’ decision to use a 12-year-old as their spokesman. “It just smacked me as being unfair,” Moran said. “You cannot criticize the program without being accused of going after the boy.”

    BWAAA HAHAHA!!!!

    Rick Moran bravely runs away.

    And it’s all our fault, because we called him mean when he went after the 12 year old kid. Well no shit sherlock, if a program is about children’s healthcare, taking it away is going to effect children.

    But in Rick Morans deluded world, he is the victim here.

  66. 66

    […] This is just one of many monumental structures Monsanto owns and operates. The bottom line remains: This company made choices. Choices have consequences. Taxpayers of lesser means should not be forced to subsidize them. […]

  67. 67

    One minute she’s a batshit crazy, raging, rabid dog leading a lynch mob of hate on a scorched Earth mission of destruction, the next she’s sweet, lovable, adorable Pollyanna, who is so misunderstood and who’s intentions are oh so f*cking pure.

    You had me at ‘batshit crazy’.

  68. 68
    D-Chance. says:

    Bubblegum Tate Says:

    Last time I checked being a shill for a party does not make you a “journalist.” Even when a journalist is trespassing and asked to leave they do.

    Malkin’s pathetic claims that she is a “journalist” have long been destroyed. She’s about as much a journalist as I am an Olympic gold medalist.

    Adding to the “she’s not a reporter” pile-on… Larisa Alexandrovna. Think anyone on the right can tell the difference? Even now, Malkin refers to the NYTimes piece as being more fair and balanced than she thought it would be… imagine that; a legit newspaper having its FACTS straight before publishing, as opposed to a blogger spewing propaganda. This nuance stuff can be so hard.

  69. 69
    Tax Analyst says:

    Zifnab Says:

    Which is perhaps the final joke in a rofl-fest of epic proportions. Show me a family of 8, making 45k who pays a freak’n plugged nickle in income tax and I’ll show you someone who has never submitted a tax return. Six kids? Assuming 4 of them are under 17, they’re sitting on a $4k refundable tax credit. And if he runs his own business, he easily has thousands of dollars in write-offs. Odds are, at the end of the year, the government pays him.

    Actually Zif, if the Frost’s 45K was all from Mr. Frost’s Self-Employment and was Net (which I would HOPE is the case…if it’s GROSS they are really hurting), their Tax situation, assuming 4 kids, all under age 17 at the end of Tax Year 2006 is not all that rosy. I’m going to assume no estimated payments made, because that really doesn’t affect what their actual tax liability was. I just ran a little sample (perks of the gig) and I’m assuming they DON’T itemized deductions, which would really depend on how big their Mortgage Interest & Real Estate Taxes are…not to mention if they have any Medical deductions (which if covered by the State program they could not deduct anyway). They probably qualify for Child And Dependent Care Benefits, certainly for the kids injured in the accident, but only if the wife also works or is a student or disabled…blah, blah, blah…so I won’t factor that in. Anyway, we’ll go with the Standard deduction for a Married couple filing jointly and then 6 exemptions (the couple + 4 kids). Leaves them a taxable income of $11,721 and a tax of $1,173 (10% bracket). Now they DO get the Child Tax Credit and it offsets that liability down to zero, BUT if that $45K net is all from Mr. Frost’s SE business he’s got some bad news in on line 58 (Self-Employment Tax) to the tune of $6,358! SE Tax is what you would pay in the Social Security and Medicare PLUS what an Employer would pay in, less 7.65% on that total (6.2% + 1.45% x 2) x (.9235). there’s an adjustment for 1/2 of that on page one of 1040, but that’s already in the mix. At $45K the Frost’s made too much to qualify for Earned Income Credit, so that’s out, but they DO qualify for Additonal Child Tax Credits of $2,827, which is placed in the “Payments” section (line 68), so they count as money, but in this case do not generate a refund due to the SE Tax. Long story, but to cut to the bottom line they would still owe about $3,500 (less if Mr. Frost made timely Estimated Payments, as Self-Employed persons are generally required to do). That’s not exactly cashing in on the Tax System. Now they may have other deductions since I don’t know their exact situation, but that SE tax ain’t going away if that $45K was Frost’s NET SE income. No charge for this amazing, almost life-like simulation.

    PS, if we use 6 six kids they would end up owing about $1,700 less. Still no windfall or bonanza for these folks. If some of the 45K was from a regular W-2 Wage job for the Missus then they would get slugged a bit more lightly and also have the Child & Dep. Care Benefits plugged back in.

  70. 70
    John S. says:

    Still, some of those things on list 1 aren’t all that different from some things on list 2. (“Talking to neighbors” vs. “talking to… other people who would know things.”)

    Um, there is a HUGE difference between talking to an accountant and talking to a neighbor to determine someone’s financial picture. One is called fact and the other is called conjecture. You should understand there is a difference between the two.

    Concern troll, eh? Screw, buddy.

    If it walks like a concern troll and it talks like a concern troll…

    But hey, if you claim otherwise, then that’s fine with me.

  71. 71
    Tax Analyst says:

    Krista Says:

    That being said, this has been a chance to read some really great blog posts here and at Sadly,No!, Ezra Klein, et al., as well as a chance to bait the maroons over at places like Riehl World View and Protein Wisdom.

    You’re smarter than I—you walked away from Riehlworld early. I’m still trying to reason with them, and the levels of FYIGM are starting to make me nauseous. It’s like some sort of visual poison.

    Yeah, I saw you over there this morning…save your breath and fingers. I made a couple stabs at real gentle reasoning and at least didn’t get called a “traitor”. I just asked them to consider whether it was possible to have a better Health Care system than what currently passes for one here and if so would they at least think about how that ought to look. You know, “here’s what we’ve got, does it really meet our needs as a Society?”. I’m afraid to go back and look at the responses, but I’ll guess I’ll drag my ass back over for a look-see in a while.

    A whole lotta FYIGM, for sure.

  72. 72

    You know, some days I wonder how these Snidely Whiplashes of the fringe would feel if someone posted their personal information on the Web. Or visited their neighborhoods, asking questions about them.

    But really, the best thing to do is throw pies at them. I’m sure that as soon as her face made contact with a plate full of lemon meringue, Michelle Malkin would run away crying.

    In the meantime, I hope the Frosts go to the police and file a restraining order. I also think that people of conscience should show their support for this family.

    Who else agrees?

  73. 73
    rawshark says:

    If the gov’t managed to rid the country of entitlements would it really have much effect on the tax burden of average citizens? Given the high cost of gov’t without those items I figure I’d still be paying roughly the same amount every two weeks. A small group will be much better off of course but to me, and maybe I’m wrong, the whole ‘taxpayers of lesser means’ argument is baseless pandering.

  74. 74
    Xanthippas says:

    Yeah, I saw you over there this morning…save your breath and fingers.

    Indeed. I really don’t like troll-ish behavior, but those people over there are only good for baiting.

  75. 75
    libarbarian says:

    Option 1: Real Journalism

    1. Call the Frosts to verify the details about them.
    2. Call the agency that handles S-CHIP in Baltimore to find out their situation.
    3. Talk to anyone else that can independently verify the Frost’s situation (i.e. doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.).
    4. Publish the facts.

    Option 2: Wingnutosphere Journalism

    1. Show up at the Frost’s house unannounced and spy on them.
    2. Guess as to what the Frost’s situation is based on their car, the value of their house and some Google searches.
    3. Talk to neighbors and co-workers to get the inside dirt on the Frost’s (do they throw lavish parties?).
    4. Publish their personal information along with your opinion of their situation and invite further scrutiny from the general public based on misinformation.
    .
    .
    .
    … there is a HUGE difference between talking to an accountant and talking to a neighbor to determine someone’s financial picture.

    Exactly. Who shows their neighbors their billing statements and check-stubs?

    Its a perfect example of Wingnut idiotic hypocrisy.

    1. Get OUTRAGED because TNR “didn’t fact-check” the accounts of Scott Beauchamp and published some details that turned out to be somewhat innacurate (like saying an event happened in Iraq when it really happened in Kuwait).

    2. Applaud Malkin for passing on neighborhood gossip and idle conjecture based on less-than-compelling evidence (his neighbors house sold for $400k so his house must be worth $400k…). Fact-checking? No time for that when one needs to journalize!!!

  76. 76

    […] From the comments, to address the screeching about Citizen Journalism: […]

  77. 77
    Chris Johnson says:

    You get to only report net? That would be neat o_O

  78. 78
    markg8 says:

    Back to the policy issue: President Bush encouraged 9 states to cover not only kids but poor adults too, mostly poor parents under SCHIP when Republicans controlled congress. Now he’s cynically playing politics trying to look fiscally “responsible” by scuttling the whole program. That won’t happen but it will cost Illinois alone an extra $75 million to push these adults into Medicaid according to the Chicago Tribune, by far a more expensive program to both Illinois and federal taxpayers than SCHIP.

    That makes no financial sense at all. But then our whole hodge podge healthcare system which is twice as expensive as most other countries in the world doesn’t either. Hopefully it will make no political sense either when the American people kick the Republican party to the curb next year.

  79. 79

    […] And as for Michelle’s “journalism?” Meet Balloon Juice commenter John S.: Option 1: Real Journalism […]

  80. 80
    Tax Analyst says:

    Chris Johnson Says:

    You get to only report net? That would be neat o_O

    NO, NO, for GOD SAKE’S NO! For Self-Employed folks: You Report EV-ER-Y-THING…and then report ALL your legitimate expenses to reduce it to your Net. But in the final analysis you are, indeed, only taxed on your Net.

    Just to clarify, the “Report Everyting” rule goes for EV-ER-Y-BODY…with the exception of certain non-taxable incomes(Worker’s Compensation, for example). No “Mulligans”. I get calls from Tax Preparer’s asking me that…no shit…”Does my client have to report everything?”

  81. 81
    whippoorwill says:

    The Truffle,

    You know, some days I wonder how these Snidely Whiplashes of the fringe

    That be Snively Whiplash, Truffle

    R.I.P. Jay Ward. Best cartoonist ever.

  82. 82
    Bruce Moomaw says:

    I hope for Malkin’s sake that she doesn’t refer to herself as the victim of a witch hunt. The reply is just a bit too obvious.

  83. 83

    Why Policy Matters

    WHY POLICY MATTERS….The latest dispatch from George Bush’s America: richer dentists, but more untreated cavities. You can’t make this stuff up. And speaking of healthcare, have you been keeping up on the latest in the Graeme Frost wingnut frenzy? F…

  84. 84
    anonymous says:

    I love this whole idea that using kids who are directly affected by an issue to illustrate said issue is somehow a totally unfair kind of dirty play the Democrats invented, and it can only be countered with Republican dirty play.

    I mean, they’re called “poster children” for a reason!

    If there’s a goddam NAME for this political phenomenon, how frigging rare is it?

    Also, as has been pointed out trillions of times, when President Bush hugs a little girl and then uses her in a commercial, there is not a coordinated left-wing effort to harrass and smear her family. Likewise, no witchhunt for those damn snowflake babies. And if anyone pulled crap like that, they’d be marginalized by the left–AS THEY SHOULD BE BY ALL CIVILIZED HUMAN BEINGS.

    Thuggery. That’s all the modern Repubican party is. Just stupid, vicious, mean, brute thuggery.

  85. 85
    shnooky says:

    Sorry Whipporwhill, it is indeed Snidely Whiplash. You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.

  86. 86
    Big LD says:

    You know, really, all this boils down to a very simple premise, one of which you either base the way you live your life upon, or you don’t. It’s called compassion.

    Yes, we all make choices, and certainly every choice brings with it a certain consequence. First off, before even touching on anything else…hello! Who has not ever made some really poor choice at some point in their life? Last time I checked, we were all human. Whatever happened to “judge not lest ye be judged”, and “love thy brother as thyself?” Two fairly renowned sentiments from The New Testament that it seems “Christians” would attempt to live by…since after all, they are supposedly walking in the path of Christ and all…but apparently have been disregarded by many Republicans, ironically…and replaced by a doctrine of sheer callousness and spite. We are all average beings…how can any of us be so smug and pious to turn our noses up to those who do fall on hard times? And perhaps even more importantly, who are any of us to judge what “hard times” are? Why is it so incredulous to understand that even if you live in “a nice neighborhood”, have a “nice home”, and even a “decent income”, you could end up in a situation where you are financially unable to keep your head above water…not because you are a “crappy person” who just didn’t plan effectively, but simply because life throws you one hell of a curveball you just didn’t expect.

    It happens all the time in this country, to very nice people who are good citizens. People who pay their taxes too. Folks who aren’t criminals or alcoholics or crackheads. All it takes is one unexpected illness or one accident…like this family experienced. Or an unexpected layoff. These scenarios can literally bankrupt you and potentially leave you homeless. I know, because it happened to my family. Having a health care system in place to provide a safety net for those in crisis in our nation should be something we all should be willing to work towards…because you just never know when you might need a little of that help yourself. The “just pick yourself up by the bootstraps and deal with it” mentality is just narrow-minded and short-sighted. I know it’s cliche, but there is a difference between a hand-out and a hand-up.

    Medical costs today are so exorbiant and repulsive, and are inflated due to corruption and greed in the health care industry, ranging from the drug companies to insurance…which of course is no new news to any of us. Why should any family have to sell their home, sell all their belongings, essentially deplete and pawn anything and everything they have worked their entire lives for in order to pay for the treatment of a devastating accident or illness they had no control over? Shouldn’t we, as a nation of people who are supposedly more civilized, want to do more to help all of our citizens protect what is supposed to be the “American Dream”, and help them keep the lives they worked so hard to establish, rather than just allow it to be stripped away in a moment of tragedy?

    I know that this is not probably the deepest or most insightful commentary, but to me, it’s all pretty simple. How can your hearts not go out to these people? How can one not see that although these people aren’t on food stamps, they certainly aren’t The Hiltons. Medical costs can easily engulf even those who have come to aquire Upper-Middle Class suburban bliss. I just don’t understand why in other countries there is a model for health care in place that strives to call for all people,and it pretty much works. Why is that so scowled upon in our country?

    Right now, this sort of travesty is happening to my elderly parents, who were self-employed, successful, responsible, saved. Now they both are seriously ill, have had multiple surgeries, are on expensive maintenance treatments (including dialysis 4X per week), and medications totalling well over $1000 a month. Their savings have been depleted, credit cards have been maxed, they have mortgaged off the equity in their home to pay their medical and living expenses…and now they have nothing. Not exactly what they planned on spending their retirement nest egg on. But hey, I guess they deserve it, right? They’re just bad people who can’t pull their own weight in life, and I guess should just die if they can’t afford to live.

  87. 87
    whippoorwill says:

    shnooky Says:

    Sorry Whipporwhill, it is indeed Snidely Whiplash. You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.

    You are certainly right Shnooky, it is Snidely. There’s no excuse for me missing that, although it’s been awhile since I’ve watched Moose and Squirrel and friends. Am going to order a CD of at least one season tomorrow. signed Super Chicken

  88. 88

    […] It also means not being shoddy and impugning people using false ‘facts’. The Frost debacle was first and foremost a lot of people jumping to disparaging statements about the Frost family on bad information. In fact, much of it was pure speculation. I note this comment from a post on the matter at John Cole’s Balloon Juice, a comment that I actually read on a leftwing site: Option 1: Real Journalism […]

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] It also means not being shoddy and impugning people using false ‘facts’. The Frost debacle was first and foremost a lot of people jumping to disparaging statements about the Frost family on bad information. In fact, much of it was pure speculation. I note this comment from a post on the matter at John Cole’s Balloon Juice, a comment that I actually read on a leftwing site: Option 1: Real Journalism […]

  2. Why Policy Matters

    WHY POLICY MATTERS….The latest dispatch from George Bush’s America: richer dentists, but more untreated cavities. You can’t make this stuff up. And speaking of healthcare, have you been keeping up on the latest in the Graeme Frost wingnut frenzy? F…

  3. […] And as for Michelle’s “journalism?” Meet Balloon Juice commenter John S.: Option 1: Real Journalism […]

  4. […] From the comments, to address the screeching about Citizen Journalism: […]

  5. […] This is just one of many monumental structures Monsanto owns and operates. The bottom line remains: This company made choices. Choices have consequences. Taxpayers of lesser means should not be forced to subsidize them. […]

  6. […] –John Cole notes how a 12-year-old’s verbal attackers now say they are victims and seemingly “backing off” in some areas. […]

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