When Rhetoric Meets Reality

I was talking to Tim via AOL IM, and I decided it was probably worthwhile to bring this up for everyone. One of the things that is so surprising (for me, at least) about the whole Graeme Frost episode is that rather than make their case against this program with their vicious assault against this family, they Malkin/Freeper/Limbaugh brigade are doing just the opposite. Rather than expose this family as a bunch of frauds and lazy slackers and welfare queens, they are making the family’s case.

If you look through this family’s dossier, it appears they are doing everything Republicans say they should be doing- hell, their story is almost what you would consider a checklist for good, red-blooded American Republican voters: they own their own business, they pay their taxes, they are still in a committed relationship and are raising their kids, they eschewed public education and are doing what they have to do to get them into Private schools, they are part of the American dream of home ownership that Republicans have been pointing to in the past two administrations as proof of the health of the economy, and so on.

In short, they are a white, lower-middle-class, committed family, who is doing EVERYTHING the GOP Kultur Kops would have you believe people should be doing. They aren’t gay. They aren’t divorced. They didn’t abort their children. They aren’t drug addicts or welfare queens. They are property owners, entrepeneurs, taxpayers, and hard-working Americans. I bet nine times out of ten in past elections, if you handed this resume to a pollster, they would think you were discussing the prototypical Republican voter. Hell, the only thing missing from this equation is membership to a church and an irrational fear of Muslims and you HAVE the prototypical Bush voter.

They are, however, not without fault. They are unable to afford insurance through normal means (and now that they have pre-existing conditions, probably couldn’t get traditional insurance anyway), and managed to get several of their family members injured in a traumatic accident. And, it appears, those are the big blind spots for compassionate conservatism. That, and the real big sin- allowing themselves to advocate for a policy that the Decider was going to veto. Here it is, so you can see their grievous sin that requires they be destroyed:

“Hi, my name is Graeme Frost. I’m 12 years old and I live in Baltimore, Maryland. Most kids my age probably haven’t heard of CHIP, the Children’s Health Insurance Program. But I know all about it, because if it weren’t for CHIP, I might not be here today.

“CHIP is a law the government made to help families like mine afford healthcare for their kids. Three years ago, my family was in a really bad car accident. My younger sister Gemma and I were both hurt. I was in a coma for a week and couldn’t eat or stand up or even talk at first. My sister was even worse. I was in the hospital for five-and-a-half months and I needed a big surgery. For a long time after that, I had to go to physical therapy after school to get stronger. But even though I was hurt badly, I was really lucky. My sister and I both were.

“My parents work really hard and always make sure my sister and I have everything we need, but the hospital bills were huge. We got the help we needed because we had health insurance for us through the CHIP program.

“But there are millions of kids out there who don’t have CHIP, and they wouldn’t get the care that my sister and I did if they got hurt. Their parents might have to sell their cars or their houses, or they might not be able to pay for hospital bills at all.

“Now I’m back to school. One of my vocal chords is paralyzed so I don’t talk the same way I used to. And I can’t walk or run as fast as I did. The doctors say I can’t play football any more, but I might still be able to be a coach. I’m just happy to be back with my friends.

“I don’t know why President Bush wants to stop kids who really need help from getting CHIP. All I know is I have some really good doctors. They took great care of me when I was sick, and I’m glad I could see them because of the Children’s Health Program.

“I just hope the President will listen to my story and help other kids to be as lucky as me. This is Graeme Frost, and this has been the Weekly Democratic Radio address. Thanks for listening.”

Pretty strong stuff. I can see why this rabid dog needs to be put down with the full force of the wingnutosphere. And it just goes downhill from there. We learn from our intrepid “reporters” on the right that $45,000 is now rich, which is news to me and everyone else who remember mocking Democrats when they tried to claim $100k combined income was considered rich. You righties do remember that, don’t you?

At any rate, let’s look at some of the pithy advice offered from the right for how the Frost family should deal with millions of dollars of medical bills:

I think the property was valued at around $225,000. I dunno, I have no sympathy for them. Looks like they have more than enough money for luxuries they won’t sacrifice, yet they expect everyone else to sacrifice for them. My family had to sell our house because we couldn’t afford to keep it, have one used minivan and a clunker my husband uses to get back and forth to work, and until this past weekend we didn’t have a television because it was a luxury we couldn’t justify spending on. No private schools for my 3 kids- can’t even afford daycare. Yet we manage to afford health insurance, keep our rental home comfy, and have food on the table. I’m content with what I have and certainly don’t want anyone else paying for what I can afford, after cutting out the luxuries.

And:

15 years ago, when my then-wife and I discovered we were going to have a child – I had a job with no health insurance.

I changed jobs – period. I was stupid and willing to go without insurance for myself – but with my child there was no way I was going to risk it.

These parents have the same opportunity.

They chose not to find jobs that offered health insurance – and they chose to spend their money elsewhere.

Then, when tragedy strikes, they’re held up as models of “what’s wrong with this country”.

Sorry – but they should be held up as models of “What’s wrong with many Americans”.

My bad- they don’t have any advice other than “SUCKS TO BE YOU” or “SELL YOUR HOUSE” or “GET ANOTHER JOB.” Because, as we all know, the hallmark of responsibility is making your children homeless so they can maybe get healthcare. Nobody even pointed to the numerous charities that we conservatives are supposed to expect to fill the gap so the government doesn’t have to pay for things. Instead, it was taunts, catcalls, contempt, and jealousy (because these folks are in SUCH an enviable situation).

I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune.

I’m registering Independent tomorrow.

*** Update ***

They have even pissed off Joe Gandelman, which I didn’t think was possible. The harshest language I have ever seen him use is “drat,” or “shoot.”

231 replies
  1. 1
    Andrew says:

    It’s too bad that they don’t own a $25 million farm or yacht or mansion or something, because then the right wing would be trying to help them avoid paying any estate taxes.

  2. 2
    Andrew says:

    Oh, awesome post, btw.

  3. 3
    The Populist says:

    Yep, we saw the kind of hate the new right spews in the previous thread. They can’t argue a point without whining about how overtaxed they are (Not).

    Funny how they don’t whine about this war and the nasty damage it’s doing to America’s image and treasury. Noooooo….we need to vilify living kids since the only kids they care about are foetuses.

    I try to debate them and they can’t debate the points.

  4. 4
    Andrew says:

    Also, the SCHIP program has been basically fantastically successful at providing health insurance and the subsequent healthcare to children since it was enacted a decade ago.

    It’s of trivial cost compared to the horrible medicare part d (to say nothing of the Iraq fiasco), and actually targets poor and middle class children without huge giveaways to business. Bush and most of the Republican presidential candidates all support plans to give tax breaks for healthcare, which would create a far larger budget hole than SCHIP ever will, and the rich would stand to benefit significantly.

  5. 5
    Rick Taylor says:

    I concluded the right wing were mostly frauds after it became obvious the administration had exposed a cia agent, because her husband had written an editorial about them they didn’t like. Before then, I’d felt we just had different values and emphasized different things. They were for national security, I more emphasized individual liberty, they were hell bent against leaks that endangered the US and supported agencies like the CIA, liberals were concerned about their excesses. But no, actually, it turned out burning a CIA agent is no big deal if you’re getting payback against her husband who wrote an editorial you didn’t like. The disconnect with their purported values and what they were actually doing was to big to ignore. That once incident changed the way I look at a lot of people on the far right.

  6. 6
    Teak111 says:

    Attack attack attack is what Rush/MM/et all do. But freepers eat it up. Dittoheads everywhere are crashing the phones to get it amd MM cheerleader vid is probably #1 in youtube. What bout a coherant arguement about whether schip is good policy or bad. And what fricking country are they in where 45k is enought to live on. Couldn’t wipe my ass on 45K. Can barely wipe my ass on 85K. Is this what’s in store for the coming Hillary compainge because if so, theres finally going to be backlash.

  7. 7
    whippoorwill says:

    That, and the real big sin- allowing themselves to advocate for a policy that the Decider was going to veto. Here it is, so you can see their grievous sin that requires they be destroyed:

    BULLSEYE !!

  8. 8
    Teak111 says:

    But hey, it works, right. Worked on Dan Rather, worked on Moveon and the NYTs, might work on the Frost kid. And its excellent for ratings. Where is Ann Coulter or would that be piling on?

  9. 9
    The Populist says:

    Didn’t Tweety Matthews opine about Dick Cheney calling his bosses to get him taken off the air? According to him and David Shuster, Cheney didn’t like what Matthews was talking about with regards to the pre-Iraq invasion talk.

  10. 10
    Gus says:

    They’re worried that people will see the success of the SCHIP program, the relative success of Medicare, and the relative success of VA health care and want evil socialism to replace their current horseshit healthcare system.

  11. 11
    The Populist says:

    I have a question – why don’t we ever see Bush in a church?

  12. 12
    Zifnab says:

    I concluded the right wing were mostly frauds after it became obvious the administration had exposed a cia agent, because her husband had written an editorial about them they didn’t like.

    Honestly, I concluded the right wing was a bunch of hypocritical douchebags the day after I heard about Pat Robertson / Jerry Falwell / James Dobson et al. And the more you learn about Texas politics, the worse everything smells.

    That said, I just assumed there was this gulf between southern politicos and northerners. Northern politicians would prick you with a smile. Southern politicians would slit your throat and spit on your corpse.

    Comforting to know that Rethugs in New England and California can be just as vile and out-of-touch as the idiots down here.

  13. 13
    Bombadil says:

    If you look through this family’s dossier, it appears they are doing everything Republicans say they should be doing- hell, their story is almost what you would consider is a checklist for good, red-blooded Americans Republican voters: they own their own business, they pay their taxes, they are still in a committed relationship and are raising their kids, they eschewed public education and are doing what they have to do to get them into Private schools, they are part of the American dream of home ownership that Republicans have been pointing to in the past two administrations as proof of the health of the economy, and so on.

    In short, they are a white, lower-middle-class, committed family, who is doing EVERYTHING the GOP Kultur Kops would have you believe people should be doing. They aren’t gay. They aren’t divorced. They didn’t abort their children. They aren’t drug addicts or welfare queens. They are property owners, entrepeneurs, taxpayers, and hard-working Americans. I bet nine times out of ten in past elections, if you handed this resume to a pollster, they would think you were discussing the prototypical Republican voter. Hell, the only thing missing from this equation is membership to a church and an irrational fear of Muslims and you HAVE the prototypical Bush voter.

    None of that matters, specifically because they aren’t Bush voters. This has nothing to do with values, Republican, Democrat or otherwise. This has everything to do with Dear Leader. The Frosts committed the mortal sin. They are not Bushists. Party is everything. All else is evil and must be destroyed.

  14. 14
    Focality says:

    Teak111: I thought the righties liked Hillary!

    If anything, it’ll give them something to do for a while. They can relive the Clinton years all over again! I wonder if Hillary getting elected will only aid the Repubs in the long run…

    This Frost situation is yet another case of base behavior and armies of straw man arguments.

  15. 15
    The Populist says:

    Why are the right so against this Frost fella running his own small business? So basically the same party that cries “LEAVE ME ALONE” thinks it’s okay to tell this poor man to find a new job that carries health insurance?

    Pray tell how does he go about just closing up his small business and finding a job in a matter of weeks (or days)?

  16. 16
    Xanthippas says:

    One of the things that is so surprising (for me, at least) about the whole Graeme Frost episode is that rather than make their case against this program with their vicious assault against this family, they Malkin/Freeper/Limbaugh brigade are doing just the opposite. Rather than expose this family as a bunch of frauds and lazy slackers and welfare queens, they are making the family’s case.

    You know, I thought the same thing after I read more about it this morning. These guys are doing nothing but helping to make the case the hard-working, honest and patriotic Americans NEED health coverage and can’t get it without the help of the government, no matter how hard they try. Honestly, combine their wingnut jack-assery with the fact that all their jack-assery just undermines their own point, and it’s a perfect storm of ignorance, moronic stupidity, hatefulness, deceit and lack of self-awareness. It’s just incredible that people can be so stupid, but there you go.

  17. 17
    Bombadil says:

    OK, I have to stop skimming through these things so I don’t repeat stuff that was in the original post.

  18. 18
    Pooh says:

    I concluded the right wing were mostly frauds after it became obvious the administration had exposed a cia agent, because her husband had written an editorial about them they didn’t like.

    Right, the disconnect between their stated goals and their actual actions has always been in plain sight for anyone willing to look.

    Great post John. One would hope that Cole would have enough bonafides to be able to make this critique and have it stick, but John has already been severely beaten with the ‘closet liberal’ stick, and probably has a book to sell, so he will be dismissed by the people who most need to hear this message.

  19. 19
    Justin says:

    John, I’m with you. I’m actually still registered Republican, and under normal circumstances would oppose S-Chip. (I hate children, you know.)

    But uh, this current group of Republicans has gone crazy. And frankly, I just want to see them drag their party down in flames.

  20. 20
    Jill says:

    John…Your party has been acting like this since Reagan, it didn’t just “become” this horrible entity.

  21. 21
    Bombadil says:

    I’m registering Independent tomorrow.

    Wait — after all this time you’re still registered Republican?

  22. 22
    The Other Andrew says:

    The common denominator of the various strains of modern conservatism (economic, religious, racial) is self-interest. That’s why tax cuts have been their bread and butter. But wait–middle-class people are starting to realize that the demon of SOCIALIZED MEDICINE may be in their self-interest. There’s a growing disconnect between Bushesque “The economy is doing great!” and Dobbsesque “The middle-class is under tremendous strain!” They rely on the villifying “welfare queen” narrative, if regular people get over the stigma of going to the government for help, it’s all over, for them.

  23. 23
    Rick Taylor says:

    Andrew wrote:

    Also, the SCHIP program has been basically fantastically successful at providing health insurance and the subsequent healthcare to children since it was enacted a decade ago.

    Good point. It’s not about success, it’s about ideology. IF SCHIP is as succesful as you say, that’s a point against it if you’re ideologically opposed tot he program; it means people might see something positive and appreciate th program, and they might be tempted to expand it. Before you know it, socialized medicine.

    Social Security is the perfect example of this phenomana. So much sincere hostility from the Bush administration, even when it’s clearly a political looser and costing them political capital and getting them nothing in return. And it’s all arrayed against a program that has very little overhead and that does what it was meant to do. Sometimes the free market solution isn’t the best. Sometimes it is, but sometimes introducing competition is simply inefficient. But that’s just anathema to the right wing, government intervention is always the problem (unless it’s keeping your brain dead spouse on life support, or preventing you from getting an abortion; then it’s great), the free market is always the solution. In Iraq, instead of bringing in people with expertise in that area of the world, they brought in free market zealots. It’s all about ideology.

  24. 24

    I don’t think you realize this, John… but a hallmark of post-Reaganism was for Republicans to pretend to not be Republicans so that people would vote for them, and then they could pass Republican stuff.

    That is, say one thing, do another. This was probably the influence of Newt Gingrich. Certainly the Contract on America was the prime example. Compassionate Conservatism was another good example.

    Well, The next generation of Republicans… the Malkinites, they don’t like that. They’re tired of hiding. They want Republicans to come right out and say what they mean.

    It’s a case of be careful what you wish for.

  25. 25
    The Populist says:

    Justin, I am an independent but still lean to Republicans who embrace the ideals of Goldwater.

    I don’t LOVE SCHIP but like Ron Paul said, there is a way to do this and if that is what Americans want, so be it.

    I love how my old party has changed into this rigid monolithic thing that won’t find compromise. It’s either 100% or nothing.

    That is sad since the founding fathers designed the system to be a place where compromise could succeed.

  26. 26
    John Cole says:

    Wait—after all this time you’re still registered Republican?

    I was holding out hopes of helping to rebuild.

  27. 27
    dagon says:

    another registered independent here.

    here’s the think john, this isn’t what the republican party has become recently. they’ve been like this for years which is why some of us were on to that “compassionate conservative” bs from the start and frankly, haven’t bought a thing that they have said for many a moon.

    it began with the “southern strategy”. all bets were off after that. i’m just shocked that more people weren’t hip to these clowns long ago.

    we’ve got a lot of damage to repair.

    peace

  28. 28
    g-rant says:

    The Frosts are the reason libs like the idea of a social safety net. It’s not because “Government = good!”. It’s because it allows people to actually change their lives and improve their social position if the government takes on certain risks that an individual can’t (like health care). I think that’s the big reason for the freak out: the traditional conservative arguments are wrong.

  29. 29
    The Populist says:

    Dagon,

    I noticed a wholesale shift in the party right around the time Reagan left office. They became so enamored with taking both houses that they sold their soul to the highest bidder.

    Then came the strategists like Rove and the rise of the new South. Argh.

  30. 30
    Wilfred says:

    it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune.

    They’re ideologues, and any time a real world situation comes around to contradict ideological purity such people have two choices: bend or become aggressive in defense of that ideology, to the point of the behavior your describe.

  31. 31
    Punchy says:

    You nailed the most important point, but let’s recap:

    They couldn’t get insurance even if they were upper-middle class. Even if they made $75K. THEIR KIDS HAVE LIFE-LONG INJURIES. THEY ARE UNINSURABLE. The gov’ts assistance is all they can get, as far as I know.

    Anyone know if Malkin has kids? What about Limbaugh? I’m pretty sure Coulter doesn’t. Doughy Pantsload? I see a trend here….

  32. 32
    dagon says:

    populist

    I noticed a wholesale shift in the party right around the time Reagan left office. They became so enamored with taking both houses that they sold their soul to the highest bidder.

    yeah, i totally agree. what i’ve never been able to figure out is what the base gets out of this. the power brokers are simply using the most cynical means necessary to retain power but the base can’t really be this ignorant and hateful. can they?

    i think a bigger question is, “what the hell is wrong with the american psyche”? particularly those of us who still cling to the fantasies that the modern “right” is shilling.

    peace

  33. 33
    Faux News says:

    I was holding out hopes of helping to rebuild.

    Cheer up John. You can still help rebuild AOL.

    :-)

  34. 34

    I know this is pretty far out there, but at times like this, I really wish we had either a parliamentary system, or at least a much larger number of members of the House, just so that there were more than 2 parties out there.

    Because people like John should be able to advocate for small government and a humble foreign policy, and not have the deranged Malkinites thwarting them. The two-party system gives rise to this stupid “us or them” thinking, and principles and even policy preferences get tossed aside. That hurts America, makes us look stupid to the rest of the world, and empowers people like Michelle Malkin.

    I could be talked out of this pretty quickly, but it sure seems like a two-party system is vulnerable to polarization and capture by extremes in a way that other systems might not be.

  35. 35
    Bombadil says:

    I was holding out hopes of helping to rebuild.

    That’s sweet. Sad and pathetic, too, but sweet.

  36. 36
    Zifnab says:

    I noticed a wholesale shift in the party right around the time Reagan left Nixon entered office.

    Fixed for historical accuracy.

  37. 37
    ChristieS says:

    Even if they made $75K. THEIR KIDS HAVE LIFE-LONG INJURIES. THEY ARE UNINSURABLE

    It may also be that, subconsciously, the Malkanites know this. And if they’re uninsurable as children, they will still be uninsurable when they become adults. This is what the far right is afraid of: more people who suffer from being “uninsurable” will demand that the government begin to cover their healthcare needs. This situation is what is going to propel universal or single payor coverage.

  38. 38
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    I’m registering Independent tomorrow.

    Welcome to the club, John. You’ll be much happier when you aren’t linked to a party.

    Anyone know if Malkin has kids?

    She does. A guy on a message board I frequent posted how The Malkins had hired his girlfriend to be a French(!) tutor for the Li’l Malkin. The girlfriend quit fairly quickly after hearing the Malkins’ rather deplorable views on race/politics/the poor/etc., and also after figuring out that by “French tutor,” the Malkins meant “nanny.”

  39. 39
    laneman says:

    They couldn’t get insurance even if they were upper-middle class. Even if they made $75K. THEIR KIDS HAVE LIFE-LONG INJURIES. THEY ARE UNINSURABLE. The gov’ts assistance is all they can get, as far as I know.

    Punchy, don’t obscure the diatribes and mouth-breathing/frothing with silly things like facts.

    facts are for people who take, uh, I don’t know, think. And we know these people don’t.

  40. 40
    Alan says:

    I thought the whole argument was against the expansion of the program to families earning $60K to $80K. Yet the right attacks a family that had already qualified under current levels?

  41. 41
    Rick Taylor says:

    This brings to mind a post Kevin made at Washington Monthly a little while back. I wish I could find it now, but he was describing how a union was striking for better health insurance, and how people were grumbling about how they had no sympathy for the union; they didn’t have health insurance or it cost them a bundle, so why should the union? Kevin was arguing we need national health care, becase competition is turning us into such small hearted resentful people.

  42. 42
    Doug says:

    A couple of observations:

    First, once again, it appears that Republicans are pretty keen on rights before birth and after brain death, but no so much in between.

    Second, it seems that the “get a job that has insurance” remark might reveal some underlying motivations for some conservatives. And g-rant alluded to this with his comments about the freedom one has to change one’s life and improve one’s social status if there is a social safety net.

    I think there is some resentment in the right wing at the idea of the rabble being free from employer control. An arm’s length transaction between labor and employer is intolerable. God forbid the laborer simply be able to walk away if the terms are unfavorable. And, furthermore, the scions of the rich are really the only ones who ought to be entrepreneurs. Erik Prince and Blackwater: All praise the free market! Joe Uninsured: You irresponsible schmuck: get to a low wage, high hour job with insurance but no pension.

  43. 43
    Tax Analyst says:

    Hey, if teh Frost’s were REAL AMERICANS Mr. Frost wuld have quit hiz piddly-assed “home buziness” and joyined up with Blackwater so’s he culd EARN hiz money by pertrecting hiz famly and all us other REAL AMERICANS frum those BROWN peeple with funny names who hate us becuz we have a bedder way of life then they duz. They shuld juzt be gudd sitizns and STFU and be prod of are Prezidant, if yew no what I meene.

    Say, Can summone ‘splain that stuff I keep reedin heer about teh “Southern Stradgedy”? I’m not shure, but I think I’m beein insultuated in thare summwhar.

  44. 44
    Alan says:

    Anyone know if Malkin has kids? What about Limbaugh? I’m pretty sure Coulter doesn’t. Doughy Pantsload? I see a trend here….

    That trend has not gone unnoticed. Of anyone who can afford kids is Rush. And yet he hasn’t even adopted one during any of his marriages. …Pro-life, family values, BS….

  45. 45
    sparky says:

    Another nail in the coffin of Rove et al as geniuses. As said above, the Rovers sold the party to the 28%ers because they vote reliably. That plus various lies and shenanigans, plus the chronic inability of Americans to pay attention, was supposed to equal permanent GOP majority (remember that?). Someone (yoo hoo, Karl and Grover) forgot that even if you hate government, it still matters what you do with it. I can’t say whether they are cretins or credible tools who believed their own snake oil.

  46. 46
    The Populist says:

    i think a bigger question is, “what the hell is wrong with the american psyche”? particularly those of us who still cling to the fantasies that the modern “right” is shilling.

    Agreed, I don’t understand this idea that to pay one’s fair share (not overpay, mind you) is such an evil thing. We all like parks, roads, etc but I don’t understand this concept of privatizing all of it. We own the infrastructure and if the right wants to sell it off, they need to hold a vote.

    I guess people have this fantasy that maybe one day THEY will be rich and that is why they buy into the idea of tax cuts for the rich. I also believe everybody wants society to have a set of core values but unfortunately you cannot LEGISLATE morality. The only way that works is if our leaders LEAD by example. Lately that is becoming rarer by the day.

    What got me to abandon the party most was this idea that James Dobson and Pat Robertson could influence things so much. I did NOT elect these people. They can have opinions and share them with the press, but they have no business buying influence and dictating how the party should be run.

  47. 47
    qwerty42 says:

    Rick Taylor Says:

    Good point. It’s not about success, it’s about ideology.

    A while back, someone (Matt Yglesias, I think) wrote something along the lines of “… well, if (some program) didn’t work, most liberals would back off and look for something that did.” He had concluded that on the Right (as it has come to be), no matter how ineffective or inefficient or wasteful some program was, as long as it conformed to theory, they would stick with it.
    I believe some of the writers on the Right (maybe NRO) were a bit miffed about this suggestion they were so other-worldly, but could not actually counter it. This was all a while back, so I don’t have the links (and heck, my memory …), but the ideology requires a belief in the theory.

  48. 48
    The Populist says:

    Doug,

    Good points. I feel that the reason the right hated Bill Clinton so much is that very thing you mention. He dared to break their stereotype of a liberal and govern from a middle ground. He took their straw men and made them fair to all.

    He made welfare reform happen without taking away the social safety net.

    He balanced the budget.

    He was small business friendly.

    All the things the right claimed that the left weren’t, he seemed to be. I am not a Clinton fan, but I do admire that he didn’t pander to his base the way this president does his.

  49. 49

    […] It is not often John Cole over at Balloon Juice and I agree, but today we do so mark it on your calendars: they [the Frosts] own their own business, they pay their taxes, they are still in a committed relationship and are raising their kids, they eschewed public education and are doing what they have to do to get them into Private schools, they are part of the American dream of home ownership that Republicans have been pointing to in the past two administrations as proof of the health of the economy, and so on. […]

  50. 50
    Rick Taylor says:

    Doug wrote:

    I think there is some resentment in the right wing at the idea of the rabble being free from employer control. An arm’s length transaction between labor and employer is intolerable. God forbid the laborer simply be able to walk away if the terms are unfavorable. And, furthermore, the scions of the rich are really the only ones who ought to be entrepreneurs. Erik Prince and Blackwater: All praise the free market! Joe Uninsured: You irresponsible schmuck: get to a low wage, high hour job with insurance but no pension.

    I think this misses something. Sure, a much of the right wing response comes from people like Limbaugh who are richer than you or I will ever be. But there aren’t enough people like that to get a political movement going.

    Some of the people John quote’s above sound like they’re not necessarily well off themselves. It’s the politics of sewing resentment, divide and conquer. I had to sell my house to get insurance, why should that kid have it any better than I did. Again, that supports the post of Kevin’s I mentioned above.

  51. 51
    The Populist says:

    By the way, the right are the very elitists they decry the left to be.

    THAT is another reason why I left this party. Tax cuts for the rich but not the middle class? Bankruptcy reform that stings the middle class, poor and small businessman.

    This is elitist behavior and it’s a shame that the evangelical sheep buy into this crap. Jesus won’t hate them for voting their conscience. Why vote for somebody that could care less about your life?

  52. 52
    Pb says:

    I have a question – why don’t we ever see Bush in a church?

    The ground is consecrated there? The Pope was right? He’s a huge hypocrite? His personal life is none of our… hey, wait a minute… get Michelle Malkin’s Truthy Squad to investigate!

  53. 53

    Alan Says:

    Anyone know if Malkin has kids? What about Limbaugh? I’m pretty sure Coulter doesn’t. Doughy Pantsload? I see a trend here….

    That trend has not gone unnoticed. Of anyone who can afford kids is Rush. And yet he hasn’t even adopted one during any of his marriages. …Pro-life, family values, BS….

    October 9th, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    That isn’t true. Rush adopted some underage Dominicans for a few evenings the last time he traveled to the Dominican Republic with his stash of magic boner pills.

    What I’m trying to say is that Rush Limbaugh is a child rapist. Limbaugh’s fans don’t care that Limbaugh is a child rapist because Limbaugh rapes children in third world nations and Limbaugh’s fans don’t consider Limbaugh’s rape of third world children to be a crime because they hate children, especially third world children raped by Rush Limbaugh.

  54. 54
    Focality says:
    Anyone know if Malkin has kids? What about Limbaugh? I’m pretty sure Coulter doesn’t. Doughy Pantsload? I see a trend here….

    That trend has not gone unnoticed. Of anyone who can afford kids is Rush. And yet he hasn’t even adopted one during any of his marriages. …Pro-life, family values, BS….

    In the case of Limbaugh, he doesn’t have children because he’s a pederast.

    In the case of Coulter, she is really a “he.”

    In the case of Malkin, they hate their children, which is why they act as they do and do as they do.

  55. 55
    Doug says:

    The rich can get by pretty well if they can manage to hire half of the poor to stand ready to kill the other half.

  56. 56
    PK says:

    Having insurance is not a guarantee that every thing will be covered. Many policies have a million dollar lifetime coverage. If the kids have severe injuries that will run out very soon if it has not done so already. But no argument or logic will convince these idiots.
    I honestly don’t understand this level of support for Bush. Because it is only for Bush. The bill is bipartisan, so many republican senators have signed on to it. What is the downside to helping poor uninsured kids get health care?

  57. 57
    Rick Taylor says:

    Alan:

    I thought the whole argument was against the expansion of the program to families earning $60K to $80K. Yet the right attacks a family that had already qualified under current levels?

    Huh. That is a good point. Why didn’t the right wing come back with, Bush supports the program, he just doesn’t want to expand it to people who don’t need it. He’s vetoing this one, but only to force congress to bring one to his desk he can sign. That’s much more effective, assuming I have it right. They support what the President is arguing for, they get to sound compassionate as of course they want to help this kid, they tag the Democrats with making a dishonest argument, and they avoid the character assassination thing. Sounds like a complete win to me. Unless they dislike the whole SCHIP program at any level, and despite Bush’s position they can’t bring themselves to support it even for anyone.

  58. 58
    libarbarian says:

    $45,000 is now rich

    I was already making $54,000 when I was a single 21 yr. old fresh outta college. $45,000 is NOT rich – especially for a family of 6 – and the people peddling this shit know it because they all make a whole lot more.’

    Michelle Malkin is rich. The Frosts are not.

  59. 59
    Tisse says:

    I’m thrilled to see anyone come to their senses about these monsters, and I can only hope there’s a million more like you jumping ship with each new disgusting low these creeps find.

    That sort of gets to what has been the biggest mystery for me in this particular ordeal. Why they do it is pretty clear by now (they’re mosters), but I guess I always thought they were monsters with a cause, an end goal. So while I find their tactics repugnant, I got what they were trying to do anyway, and who they were talking to. In this case, though, WHO are they talking to? I don’t get it.

    How many people who read Malkin et all every day, are reading this story and for once, finally, feeling the smack in the face, the venom of their own peeps being used against them? That’s gotta hurt. (even more than it hurts my pansy progressive ass to read this swill). There is just nothing in this story for your average, middle-america repub to cling to. The details, no matter how you shape em, all describe to a tee so many families out there in red america. When I think of a standard 30%er, I think of a lower middle class, white, hardworking parent trying to get by.

    I always thought that was why they were so pissed off, actually, so afraid of everything (brown people, terrorist, The Gays)… because they are struggling and straining, most of them, to keep their own families’ head above water and they’re scared. So, now, these blogger lunatics are punching them in the face too? Their own people are punching them in the face!

    I am so confused by it all, I can barely articulate my confusion. What the hell are these freaks thinking calling attention to this, making it a spectacle and attacking this family??? This one alienates their very own people! Ultimately it further proves the insularity of the righty blogosphere and how it’s only a big circle jerk, but still, I sense it’s some sort of jumping the shark. When you’ve turned right on your own readers, so unabiguously, so harshly, what happens next?

  60. 60
    sashal says:

    John, I am a long time reader, posting the first time.
    Like your blog very much.
    Since I immigrated from the Eastern block in 1994 I was automatically drawn to Republican party, thinking that this is the most distant political entity from the experience of the socialism rule. Plus I had an nostalgia and naive appreciation of Reagan as a helper and facilitator to the changes which had occurred in the old country.
    But reality as always is less glorious as fantasies.
    The last straw was unprovoked war with Iraq, which I recognized immediately as unnecessary waste of lives and treasure( plus the propaganda and behavior of the establishment was so similar to our once enemies in the USSR- so I admit it was easier for me to decipher the simple puzzle of war mongers, Utopian neoconservative ideologues, liberals hawks, etc, etc).
    My attitude towards the USA foreign policy is probably best described in this post in much superior English:

    Iraq war would not be worth it even if we could win

    But if only the foreign policy was the issue, things could still look quite optimistic for republicans( after all there are many dems who share many interventionist ideas with the republicans).
    The latest examples of the craziness from the attack dogs of GOP and their mindless 29% fans ( which you describe so excellently in your blog), disgusts me to the point, that I almost see no difference in their behavior to the once their proclaimed to despise from the communists.
    Oh , well. I will vote for the dem this time again( as in 2000 and 2004), even if they will run HRC or my cat in the presidential elections

  61. 61
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    A while back, someone (Matt Yglesias, I think) wrote something along the lines of “… well, if (some program) didn’t work, most liberals would back off and look for something that did.” He had concluded that on the Right (as it has come to be), no matter how ineffective or inefficient or wasteful some program was, as long as it conformed to theory, they would stick with it.

    I remember seeing a little debate between Jonathan Chait and Jonah Goldberg a few years ago that was sort of similar. They were talking about tax policy, and Chait was making the point that for folks like Goldberg, tax cuts for the rich are not a means to an end, they are then end itself. Which is why it can often be so bizarre dealing with a supply-sider: Most people tinker with the tax code in order to achieve some sort of goal. If the changes don’t bring the goal to fruition, then you try something else. But supply-siders don’t have any particular goal beyond “tax cuts.” Which is why tax cuts are recommended for each and every financial situation–boom, recession, whatever.

    That attitude does seem to spill over into other areas for ardent wingnuts. It’s more about sticking to the doctrine than achieving some sort of measurable goal.

  62. 62

    Even if they made $75K. THEIR KIDS HAVE LIFE-LONG INJURIES. THEY ARE UNINSURABLE.

    Strictly speaking that’s not true. If the kids were to go get jobs with a company that offered health insurance, they would perhaps have to wait a year before their pre-existing condition were covered.

    But that’s better than nothing.

    So kids. Go get a job!

  63. 63
    Jake says:

    their story is almost what you would consider is a checklist for good, red-blooded Americans Republican voters

    Which is one reason Stalkin’ Malkin is rummaging through their garbage. The Frosts can’t be dismissed as “those people” (as in “Of course those people are on welfare”) and it drives the residents of Freeperville, RS crazy.

    Crazier.

  64. 64
    jenniebee says:

    Sounds a lot like what Atrios had to say:

    It should be noted that the great “bwa ha ha” that the assholes have come up with is that, yes, it’s very possible to a) own house which has appreciated quite a bit since it was purchased and b) have a modestly successful small business and still be unable to afford health insurance in America. Combine that with a major medical event of some sort and you’re pretty screwed.

    Welcome, John, to the loony left. Your propeller beanie, joy buzzer and big floppy shoes are in the mail.

    BTW – could someone mention to the folks who are complaining about being in dead-end jobs making less money than the Frosts and not wanting to have to pay for the Frosts, that it isn’t Democrats who want to make them pay for this stuff, it’s the flat taxers who want to do that? Progressive tax codes ftw, kthxbai!

  65. 65

    I was holding out hopes of helping to rebuild.

    I don’t think Sherman is done with Atlanta yet.

  66. 66
    jenniebee says:

    Just re-read this:

    My family had to sell our house because we couldn’t afford to keep it, have one used minivan and a clunker my husband uses to get back and forth to work, and until this past weekend we didn’t have a television because it was a luxury we couldn’t justify spending on. No private schools for my 3 kids- can’t even afford daycare.

    Am I reading too much into this to understand that the writer is a stay-at-home mom? How is that not a “luxury” – and a substantial one at that – in this day and age? I don’t get to retire from my paying gig to play with kids and clean a house.

  67. 67
    Z says:

    Its not ideology. Its tribalism pure and simple.

  68. 68
    Billy K says:

    here’s the think john, this isn’t what the republican party has become recently. they’ve been like this for years

    And what pisses me off is those of us who saw this and said something simply YEARS AGO just got ridiculed or ignored.

    It’s kind of like this whole Blackwater thing. None of it is new or shocking information to those of us who have been paying attention. Yet the people who brought this kind of stuff to light YEARS AGO were ridiculed or ignored, and still are. Even if we were right, it doesn’t matter because we’re not the “right kind of people.”

  69. 69
    stickler says:

    Elvis Elvisberg asks a good question upthread:

    I could be talked out of this pretty quickly, but it sure seems like a two-party system is vulnerable to polarization and capture by extremes in a way that other systems might not be.

    Um, no, on several levels. For one thing, many parliamentary, multi-party systems are unstable (see, for example, here for a spectacular example). For another, our system has coalesced around two major parties partly because that’s what has worked, and because the system is rigged to ensure it.

    More importantly, regarding Bush and the GOP’s ability to gridlock the system, that’s another legacy of the inherently conservative Constitution we have. Really: why should South Dakota have as many Senators as California? Because Jefferson and Madison feared the growing power of cities and distrusted the mob (that is to say, you and me).

    As far as this particular kerfluffle is concerned, I am convinced that it is a clear sign of the impending implosion of the Citizen Journalist Jingoist Right. But man, watch out when the bill comes due next fall. Their intellectual forebears brought us Eric Rudolph and black-helicopter paranoia. Expect the same next time around, once Hitlery takes the oath of office. Hell, they’re practicing their stalking and intimidation techniques right now. They will become violent. And that violence must be met with vigilence. This time, the broad mass of the citizenry has to play by Chicago rules. Do not pretend that these modern Brownshirts will listen to reason or respect the law. They must be dealt with on their own terms.

    Crush them.

  70. 70
    Pb says:

    According to those idiots, $45,000 is now rich, but $168,000 isn’t — just ask Tony Snow!

  71. 71
    lutton says:

    My family had to sell our house because we couldn’t afford to keep it, have one used minivan and a clunker my husband uses to get back and forth to work, and until this past weekend we didn’t have a television because it was a luxury we couldn’t justify spending on. No private schools for my 3 kids- can’t even afford daycare. Yet we manage to afford health insurance, keep our rental home comfy, and have food on the table.

    Wow! That GOP agenda is really working out for you!

    What’s the Matter with Kansas?

  72. 72
    Bombadil says:

    My family had to sell our house because we couldn’t afford to keep it, have one used minivan and a clunker my husband uses to get back and forth to work, and until this past weekend we didn’t have a television because it was a luxury we couldn’t justify spending on. No private schools for my 3 kids- can’t even afford daycare.

    I guess the internet connection and computer that allowed her to post wasn’t a “luxury” either. Odd that they’d keep that but not the television, especially with three kids.

  73. 73
    PK says:

    Tisse
    Your post echos my feelings exactly! I cannot understand why the right wingers are they going after this family. It achieves nothing for them. I think we need to resurrect Freud to explain the right wing psyche.

  74. 74
  75. 75
    Bombadil says:

    sparky Says:

    OT (forgive me), but this kinda sorta made my head explode.

    Apparently American racism discriminates against white folks so the only fair thing to do is discriminate against the non-white folks.

    Apparently the staff of the Colbert Report is working at DOJ.

    The preceding announcement was produced by The Foundation to Save the Non Sequitor.

    Perhaps a link so we’d know wtf you’re talking about?

  76. 76
    Billy K says:

    One other thing this sorry incident brings to mind – the Radical Right hates people who are somehow imperfect. They don’t like people who have been injured, or children born with medical conditions. They don’t like people with disabilities or the homeless. They really don’t like mentally ill, and they don’t like people with funny accents.

    They like people who are somehow “perfect.” Maybe it’s shades of Rand. Maybe it’s that imperfect people cost money. I don’t know. But it always makes me think of German propaganda posters from WWII with the idyllic homefront and beaming children. That is pretty much all the Right’s interested in. If you’re not unblemished, get out of their America.

    (And no, I’m not calling them Nazis; just saying they think like Nazis.)

  77. 77
  78. 78
    Doug says:

    I don’t think Sherman is done with Atlanta yet.

    Not by a damn sight. We’re gonna have to wait until the flames die down so we can get the fields salted. Then, maybe. Just maybe.

  79. 79
    Bombadil says:

    Linky.

    Ah, that’s different! Now we have justifiable outrage!

    See, that’s why O’Reilly and Limbaugh are all about context.

    (And, yes, it made my head explode too.)

  80. 80
    sparky says:

    Bombadil–
    Also brought to you by the Erratic Typing Patrol (keeping our links to ourselves, dagnabit!).

    Contributions Welcome!

  81. 81
    Tsulagi says:

    I’m registering Independent tomorrow.

    Welcome to the ranks; they are growing.

    A fair number of the saner Pubs I know are now little “r” Republicans. Took him a while, but even my father is disgusted with them. But like some others, he likes to think the Bush years are an aberration. That somehow when Bush leaves office, the party will get back to its roots. So he’ll likely find a reason to vote the Pub candidate in 08.

    Good luck with that, dad. This party is not your father’s Republican party. It’s been transformed into the Party of Bush with the corrupt, lying, incompetent, retarded lunatic fringe calling the shots. With lapel pins and Purple Heart bandaids of course to prove they’re patriots.

  82. 82
    Focality says:

    From Orcinus:

    The right’s eagerness to reshape itself as a torch-bearing mob now manifesting itself in the campaign to “expose” young Graeme Frost has forged a whole new level of wingnuttery. It’s really something to behold.

    Now aspiring wingnuts can ascend to a special level of nastiness by going after children, families, and in general private citizens who make the mistake of advocating progressive positions. They freely abuse the media power they’ve been handed in order to harm people in their private lives for the public positions they take.

    It’s uniquely unAmerican. Indeed, it has all the earmarks of fascism. But it also marks a special level of inhumanity and soullessness.

    Michelle Malkin pioneered this new sphere of affairs last year by kicking off a campaign to attack a group of college antiwar protesters with their home addresses and phone numbers.

    It was, of course, unusually reminiscent of what went down in Rwanda during ethnic strife there, where radio announcers would give out the home addresses of intended victims. But this hasn’t just happened in Rwanda: we’ve seen similar tactics here in the Northwest used against environmentalists.

    Malkin has continued to expand on the concept with her “John Doe” campaign, which urges paranoid Americans to take action against anyone they suspect might be a terrorist, no matter how fevered their imaginations.

    What she and her torch-bearing cohorts are tapping into, of course, is the right’s innate eagerness to form ugly eliminationist mobs bent on purging anyone who opposes their agenda. Indeed, the ease with which they form bands of flying monkeys — even when the story isn’t just false but an embarrassing mistake — has also been duly noted.

    Now the Graeme Frost mob is being led not just by Malkin but by Rush Limbaugh, with Mark Steyn taking up the rear and a whole host of other wingnuts in between.

    This isn’t simple wingnuttery, though, which while noxious enough in its own right is at least a little laughable. This goes beyond wingnuttia.

    As Atrios says, these people are assholes. Flaming nuclear assholes.

    So for those wingnuts who have ascended beyond mere kookery and have begun using their media powers to attack and harass private citizens in their private lives for the mere affrontery of taking a non-conservative political position, we should have a new designation.

    Can we just call them the assholosphere and be done with them?

  83. 83
    ninerdave says:

    will be dismissed by the people who most need to hear this message.

    I think all the people who were capable of “hearing” the message have long since heard it and have distanced themselves from the screaming horde. All that’s left is the 28%ers, who will lynch you for telling them sky is blue if their leaders say it’s green.

  84. 84
    Not the Senator says:

    Now aren’t these caterwauling flying monkeys of the right the same people who were absolutely outraged that MoveOn dared to attack General Petreaus?

    Let me see:

    A 4-Star General who writes Op-Eds and testifies on policy to Congress vs a 12-year old brain injured child?

    Oh, I understand. Obviously, the 12-year old is the one it’s all right to attack. We can’t allow the General’s feelings to be hurt while a 12-year old brain injured child is being allowed to get SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!

    They don’t call ’em Values Voters for nothing!

  85. 85
    Patrick Carroll says:

    Offered without comment:

    http://www.riehlworldview.com/.....ats-e.html

  86. 86
    Rick Taylor says:

    Ecccccccch. This is off topic, but I was just reading about El Masri, the German citizen we kidnapped, beat up, and sent to a CIA prison. After realizing we had the wrong man, we dumped him on a hillside in Albania.

    So I go to Captain Ed’s sight, who John Cole tells me is one of the more reasonable right wing bloggers, and what do I see?

    Supremes To El-Masri: Tough Luck

    Masri may well have had a good case for his lawsuit, under other circumstances. If, as he claims, he has no connection to terrorism and got abducted by the CIA in Macedonia and held for almost half a year of interrogation, he should be due some compensation. Unfortunately, with the kind of war we’re fighting, we have to err on the side of our safety — and we have to learn from our mistakes, too.

    Nope, American intelligence simply couldn’t function if we couln’t kidnap people, beat them up, dress them in diapers, and send them off to secret prisons with no oversight and no recourse whatsoever, whenever we thought we had a good reason, to be dumped in Albania whenever we thought we’d made a mistake.

    I guess Captain Ed really is one of the more reasonable right wing bloggers, because at last he admits Masri deserves compenation and hopes he’ll get it through the State Department. And in a follow-up post, he admits he was “glib” with the “tough luck” comment. You think?

    And of course he thinks the attacks on this family’s house and private school are all fair game.

    Are there any reasonably right wing sites out there? Ones I can read, to broaden my outlook, without just getting disgusted?

  87. 87
    qwerty42 says:

    Bubblegum Tate Says:

    I remember seeing a little debate between Jonathan Chait and Jonah Goldberg a few years ago that was sort of similar. They were talking about tax policy, and Chait was making the point that for folks like Goldberg, tax cuts for the rich are not a means to an end, they are then end itself.

    Thanks; thinking about it, I’m pretty sure it was Jon (well, it was a while back). Matt provides a link to Jon’s op-ed in todays NYT on the matter of tax cuts.

  88. 88
    Jonquil says:

    I’m registering Independent tomorrow.

    I am sorry for your loss. It must be very painful to have come to this point. (Lifelong Democrat myself; giving up on that would be hard.) Great post.

  89. 89

    John, I’m completely with you in regards to the Malkins who decided that it’s perfectly fine to go after a 12-year old, but I think that those who point out that the Democrats and Graeme’s parents shouldn’t have put him out there have a good point as well.

    Politics is for adults, not children.

  90. 90
    Vladi G says:

    One other thing this sorry incident brings to mind – the Radical Right hates people who are somehow imperfect. They don’t like people who have been injured, or children born with medical conditions.

    Unless they’re hooked up to a feeding tube.

  91. 91

    […] UPDATE: John Cole is making sense: If you look through this family’s dossier, it appears they are doing everything Republicans say they should be doing- hell, their story is almost what you would consider is a checklist for good, red-blooded American Republican voters: they own their own business, they pay their taxes, they are still in a committed relationship and are raising their kids, they eschewed public education and are doing what they have to do to get them into Private schools, they are part of the American dream of home ownership that Republicans have been pointing to in the past two administrations as proof of the health of the economy, and so on. […]

  92. 92
    LITBMueller says:

    Perhaps the Frost family should file stalking charges against Stalkin’ Malkin. How about harassment? Libel? I’m sure the ACLU or some other organization would take the case.

    Of course, they would have to do it pro bono, or Wingnuttia would explode with, “They can afford a lawyer but not health insurance for their kids?!?!?”

  93. 93
    Rick Taylor says:

    More about El Masri here. Evidently he went on a hunger strike for over a month to try to gain his release, before he was force fed. Malnourished, he was literally dumped in Albania, without any explanation or money to get home. His wife had returned to Lebanon because she had no idea what happened to him. Tough luck. Ah well, he deserves some compensation, $75,000 sounds about right.

    What is it with right wingers? Do they make you check in your heart or something before you can join?

  94. 94
    Punchy says:

    Punchy, don’t obscure the diatribes and mouth-breathing/frothing with silly things like facts.

    facts are for people who take, uh, I don’t know, think. And we know these people don’t

    I had to read that 4 times to realize you weren’t slamming me.

    A guy on a message board I frequent posted how The Malkins had hired his girlfriend to be a French(!) tutor for the Li’l Malkin. The girlfriend quit fairly quickly after hearing the Malkins’ rather deplorable views on race/politics/the poor/etc., and also after figuring out that by “French tutor,” the Malkins meant “nanny.”

    FWIW, I just got done tutoring the daughter of a Republican Presidential candidate, and I was amazed at how well-rounded and “normal” she is, compared to what I expected based on the rantings of her father. Met the man, too. Just insanely nice. Couldn’t get over the disconnect between what they say in DC and how they act at home.

  95. 95
    Sock Puppet of the Great Satan says:

    “I was holding out hopes of helping to rebuild.”

    Ah, I’d still stay in. You can either vote in the primaries for a candidate who either stands for what you want the GOP to be (maybe Ron Paul), or vote for the craziest douchebag (say Guiliani or Keyes) possible to err, heighten the contradictions and speed the way for the self-immolation of the GOP so that something less repulsive will rise from the ashes.

  96. 96
    laneman says:

    Maybe it’s shades of Rand.

    as far as I have been able to glean, rightwingnuttospheria all claim to say that Ayn was a whack-job

  97. 97

    Isn’t this whole thing clearly the fault of the Democrats?

    If they’d just learn their place, and shut up about policy, we’d all get along great.

  98. 98
    laneman says:

    way to cloase the blockquote, maroon

  99. 99
    whippoorwill says:

    Oh , well. I will vote for the dem this time again( as in 2000 and 2004), even if they will run HRC or my cat in the presidential elections

    Welcome to America SASHAL,

    Sounds you’ve become what’s called a “Yellow Dog Democrat
    except to use HRC or your cat.

  100. 100
    ninerdave says:

    I think that those who point out that the Democrats and Graeme’s parents shouldn’t have put him out there have a good point as well.

    Oh bullshit. Don’t even start to justify this crap, there is absolutely no defense for what the nutjobs have done and are doing.

    Might I remind you of the snowflake kids? Kids and adults get trotted out as props all the time in politics.

  101. 101
    John S. says:

    Offered without comment:

    http://www.riehlworldview.com/.....ats-e.html

    Offered with comment:

    Dan Riehl is a fucking moron.

  102. 102
    Rick Taylor says:

    I’m registering Independent tomorrow.

    You could register as a Democrat; that would give you a vote in the primaries to help save us from Hillary. :)

    Seriously, I think at this point sensible conservatives have a much better chance of influencing the Democratic party from within than the Republican.

  103. 103
    lou says:

    John, I’m completely with you in regards to the Malkins who decided that it’s perfectly fine to go after a 12-year old, but I think that those who point out that the Democrats and Graeme’s parents shouldn’t have put him out there have a good point as well.

    Politics is for adults, not children.

    So Michael, you of course objected when Bush hauled out this 9 year old to support his social security campaign. And you of course objected to all the snowflake babies sharing the stage with Bush.

  104. 104
    Tax Analyst says:

    Rick Taylor Says:

    Ecccccccch. This is off topic, but I was just reading about El Masri, the German citizen we kidnapped, beat up, and sent to a CIA prison. After realizing we had the wrong man, we dumped him on a hillside in Albania.

    So I go to Captain Ed’s sight, who John Cole tells me is one of the more reasonable right wing bloggers, and what do I see?

    Supremes To El-Masri: Tough Luck

    Masri may well have had a good case for his lawsuit, under other circumstances. If, as he claims, he has no connection to terrorism and got abducted by the CIA in Macedonia and held for almost half a year of interrogation, he should be due some compensation. Unfortunately, with the kind of war we’re fighting, we have to err on the side of our safety—and we have to learn from our mistakes, too.

    Nope, American intelligence simply couldn’t function if we couln’t kidnap people, beat them up, dress them in diapers, and send them off to secret prisons with no oversight and no recourse whatsoever, whenever we thought we had a good reason, to be dumped in Albania whenever we thought we’d made a mistake.

    I guess Captain Ed really is one of the more reasonable right wing bloggers, because at last he admits Masri deserves compenation and hopes he’ll get it through the State Department. And in a follow-up post, he admits he was “glib” with the “tough luck” comment. You think?

    And of course he thinks the attacks on this family’s house and private school are all fair game.

    Are there any reasonably right wing sites out there? Ones I can read, to broaden my outlook, without just getting disgusted?

    Yeah, the SCOTUS said we’d have to reveal “Strategic Secrets” to let El Masri have his day in a U.S. court. They must mean the secret that this guy was totally innocent of any wrong-doing, was kidnapped by agents of the United States Government (guys & gals working for you and me, right?), drugged, blind-folded, gagged and chained up on a plane and flown out of the country to be tortured at the hands of some of our less scrupulous “allies”? Do they mean THAT National Secret? Or maybe they mean George Tenet’s ludicrous denials of the entire incident? The shame is that this news article passes with little or no comment that I can see. Maybe Captain Ed is doing us a favor by mentioning it at all.

    I guess it finally has reached the point where we hear of this crap and are just numb to what it really means.

  105. 105
    whippoorwill says:

    John S. says

    Dan Riehl is a fucking moron.

    I keep wondering how low these vultures can go. After reading Riehl’s post I expect we got a ways to go before reaching the bottom of their pathetic hatefulness.

  106. 106
    John S. says:

    I keep wondering how low these vultures can go.

    I try not to wonder how much lower it can go than beating up on a 12-year-old kid with brain damage.

  107. 107

    John, I’m completely with you in regards to the Malkins who decided that it’s perfectly fine to go after a 12-year old, but I think that those who point out that the Democrats and Graeme’s parents shouldn’t have put him out there have a good point as well.

    Politics is for adults, not children.

    Then why are Republicans acting like children? Shouldn’t they behave like adults, and talk about the policy, good or bad, instead of going after a kid trying to discredit him?

  108. 108
    Rick Taylor says:

    You’re right, Tax Analyst, Captain Ed at least deserves credit for addressing an issue that’s obviously not comfortable for him.

    El Masri’s statement is here. I’m tempted to clip and post the whole thing, but it’s long. I’d strongly encourage people to read it. This is what we do now, without apology.

  109. 109
    Tax Analyst says:

    Just went over to his blog…boy,is Dan Riehl an ASSHOLE.

  110. 110
    laneman says:

    Just went over to his blog…boy,is Dan Riehl an ASSHOLE.

    I am going to stop making ‘post of the (whatever) time’ comments, because rightwingnuttosphereia keeps topping itself and I hate to kill innocent electrons.

  111. 111
    The Populist says:

    Hypothetical for anybody being harassed by a Malkinite:

    1) If you see a weirdo looking into your windows, walk out calmly and ask what the F— they think they are doing (if you wanna be nice, ask them “Can I help you?”).

    2) If they start asking you pointed questions about your lifestyle ask them to get off of your property. If you live in an Apartment, dial 911. If you live in an HOA Condo type setup, call 911.

    3) If you find them in a tree looking down in your backyard or into your house, call the cops.

    4) Go outside and yell at them. If you can’t shame them into leaving, remind them that they are now trespassing.

    5) If they persist, goad them into admitting who they work for. THEN threaten them with the cops.

    6) Once the cops arrive and the coward vacates, report him/her to the cops and ask them to file a complaint and request paperwork for a restraining order.

    7) Visit a competent ambulance chasing lawyer to see what can be done to hit them where it hurts.

    8) Send them the restraining order as well as a cease and desist if they post or link to any personal information being sent out on the web. Remind them that if anything happens to your property or you get harassed, they will be held responsible (take screenshots!).

    9) Make sure you send your paperwork to any media outlets that you think would love to post the info. BTW, if you go after a Malkinite or the queen bee herself, she will have to provide an address for the record. THAT in itself becomes public record.

    The goal here would be to put all of this into the public record as well as extracting some monetary damages from the offending parties. They would NOT DARE violate the restraining order and would have to remove your personal info as well as offer a public retraction.

    Wash.Repeat.Rinse.

  112. 112
    Tax Analyst says:

    Rick Taylor Says:

    You’re right, Tax Analyst, Captain Ed at least deserves credit for addressing an issue that’s obviously not comfortable for him.

    El Masri’s statement is here. I’m tempted to clip and post the whole thing, but it’s long. I’d strongly encourage people to read it. This is what we do now, without apology.

    Yeah, I used your link. I had read about this horrible story before, but it was a useful reminder of just how low we have gone. I wish that SCOTUS would enumerate on exactly which “State Secrets” were at risk in allowing El Masri to attempt to clear his name and receive compensation for being abducted at gun-point and spirited out of the country (“renditioned” I couldn’t think of the word earlier) to be tortured in a secret prison. I came across another piece on-line a short while ago where the author pointed out just how far Americans seem willing to use their “Innocence” to avoid facing things done in our name. At a certain point the “Innocence” begins to look a whole lot like the Bullshit our “Leader’s” lay on us in thick doses with great regularity these days. I guess until we are willing to acknowledge and accept these things done in our name we will continue to enable the unscrupulous above us to continue with more of the same. At best, it’s sorry denial, at worst it’s willful acquiescence.
    After “sickening” the next reaction is just sadnes.

  113. 113
    The Populist says:

    Roberts, Alito, Scalia & Thomas are the modern day equivalent of royalists. They are not constitutionalists, they are not open minded (I dare one conservative to explain to me why a judge has to be rigid) and they are activists.

    If I ever hear the words ACTIVIST JUDGE again I’ll scream.

  114. 114
    binzinerator says:

    Because, as we all know, the hallmark of responsibility is making your children homeless so they can maybe get healthcare.

    Thank you for pointing that out, John Cole. I realized this the other day, that that’s what it would mean if what these ‘personal responsibiity’ asswipes were saying was followed to its conclusion.

    I was too angry to spit when I realized that.

    They cloak their selfish, mean, vindictive, petty, cruel and jealous intent under words that sound moral and righetous.

    I recall someone once said that conservatism has been the never-ending search to justify pure selfishness.

    That would explain why a chunk of these people are so jealous. They nurse that resentment that someone — even a brain-damaged kid, like this boy’s sister — got something — anything — instead of themselves.

    Why should a brain-damaged child whose father makes $45,000 get a doctor when some wingnuts got no television to watch Fox News on? The injustice of a Fox-News-free wingnut must be like sore that can never heal.

    The unbelievable irony is these stupids who do all this resenting have no fucking clue they’ve been screwed by Bushism too, and are in fact demanding to be screwed by it.

    Look at the quote John Cole included (now with my emphasis):

    My family had to sell our house because we couldn’t afford to keep it, have one used minivan and a clunker my husband uses to get back and forth to work, and until this past weekend we didn’t have a television because it was a luxury we couldn’t justify spending on. No private schools for my 3 kids- can’t even afford daycare. Yet we manage to afford health insurance, keep our rental home comfy, and have food on the table. I’m content with what I have….

    First, like fucking hell she is content. She wouldn’t give a laundry list of privations if she was content with her lot. She wouldn’t be so damn santimoniously jealous either.

    But the big question I have is, Why the fuck is isn’t she hopping mad about how badly and ruthlessly the people she voted for have dicked her and her family over?

    Here’s a wingnut dumbass who supports the very people whose policies have made it impossible for her to keep her home, get a good job with wages that haven’t stagnated, get healthcare with that job, get a good education for her kids at public schools, or daycare at her husband’s employer.

    It blows my mind that people can be this stupid. They’ve insisted on voting themselves out of their own home, out of higer wages, out of job benefits that include healthcare, out of good education, and into the margins of society, and they obviously resent it while pretending they have are satisfied with their ‘personal responsibility’ choice.

    Are 30% of our nation really this stupid, this determined to undermine their own self-interests?

    Yep. As long as they’re told over and over again, with a bible in one hand and a flag pin in the other, “No taxes, no gays, no mooslims, no wetbacks. Jayzus loves ya, God Bless the USA”.

  115. 115

    […] Posted in GOP tagged SCHIP at 12:31 pm by LeisureGuy John Cole is another conservative who believes that the GOP has jumped the track and lost its way. This post about what the right-wingers are doing to the Frost family is right on target, I think. […]

  116. 116
    Jack Moss says:

    Do your homework.

    The Frost family has a combined annual income of about $45,000, said Bonnie Frost. She and her husband have priced private health insurance, but they say it would cost them more per month than their mortgage – about $1,200 a month. Neither parent has health insurance through work.

    $1200 per month for a family of 6 in Baltimore. Really? What are they smoking?

    A check of a quote engine for zip code 21250 (Baltimore) finds a plan for $641 with a $0 deductible and $20 doc copays.

    Adding a deductible of $750 (does not apply to doc visits) drops the premium to $452. That’s almost a third of the price quoted in the article. Doesn’t anyone bother to check the facts?

    Apparently not

  117. 117
    Jay B. says:

    When Bush trots out kids to make his points — usually with more flair and articulation — the Democrats and us nasty liberal types who are on blogs, usually don’t notice the rhetorical upgrade and continue to critique Bush’s plans. We don’t attack the kid, their parents, their lifestyle, their jobs — fuck it’s amazing you think having kids to rebut an infantile Bush veto is somehow beyond the pale. It seems only fair and age appropriate.

    Still, since Democrats and a group of Republicans have been supporting the S-CHIP expansion for awhile now, using adult terms and logic and such, I don’t get your point.

    This kind of thing happens all of the time in things like: Politics, advertising, charities, fundraising, awareness campaigns, school pageants, etc. What doesn’t happen and what we shouldn’t accept, is that it’s OK to attack a kid for speaking in favor of a goddamn goverment program.

    What about this is so hard to understand?

  118. 118
    Katie says:

    $1200 per month for a family of 6 in Baltimore. Really? What are they smoking?

    A check of a quote engine for zip code 21250 (Baltimore) finds a plan for $641 with a $0 deductible and $20 doc copays.

    Adding a deductible of $750 (does not apply to doc visits) drops the premium to $452. That’s almost a third of the price quoted in the article. Doesn’t anyone bother to check the facts?

    Ah, but if you throw in those pre-existing conditions that the kids have, the $1,200/month price tag doesn’t sound out of line. Many of those lower insurance rates only apply if you have nothing wrong with you to start with.

  119. 119
    Jay B. says:

    Jack, you are a pathetic excuse for a human being. There are literally infinite reasons they would pay $1200 a month starting with online quotes may not be accurate and going up from there.

    The better question is: Why do you envy a family who has two kids with disabilities?

  120. 120

    As usual, the left simply ignores the problem and ratchets up the rhetoric.

    Democrats attempted, as usual, to stand up a seeming unassailable “moral icon”–the equivalent of a triple amputee Vietnam war veteran Senator in order to arrest all debate. The depths of perfidy were plumbed by the exploitation of a child to facilitate the power grab.

    As usual, you got caught, and like D-Fens of the movie “Falling Down”, you are out on the pier asking in wonderment, “You mean, I’m the bad guy?”

    Yes, you are the bad guy–you use children like pedophiles and then complain when others reveal that their parents sold them to you like sheep to the slaughter.

    You lied, you got caught. Now you are screaming like stuck pigs.

    Notably, no one of you objected when the left sought voraciously to deconstruct the myth of Pat Tillman. First you assassinated his character, and when you found out he objected to the war in Iraq, you made him a hero.

    Another day of leftist outrage over being caught red-handed, another day of intellectual masturbation.

  121. 121
    John Cole says:

    You lied, you got caught. Now you are screaming like stuck pigs.

    Got caught with what, you fucking moron?

    everything about the Graem story checks out- they are lower middle class, have no disposable income, are living in a house that they paid 55k for, and are barely making it on 45k a year.

    Jesus fucking christ, do you folks work to get this god damned stupid?

  122. 122
    Punchy says:

    $1200 per month for a family of 6 in Baltimore. Really? What are they smoking?

    A check of a quote engine for zip code 21250 (Baltimore) finds a plan for $641 with a $0 deductible and $20 doc copays

    That plan doesn’t exist for two children with serious pre-existing conditions, dumbass. Bet you didn’t think to actually call the company, inquire about the premiums w/r/t these serious medical problems, and THEN have them quote yo a price, did you?

    Pretty sure there ISNT a price. There isnt an insurance company anywhere thats going to take on children with serious head/brain trauma. No fucking way. Uninsurable.

  123. 123
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Jesus fucking christ, do you folks work to get this god damned stupid?

    I think they do. If they were just taking wild guesses about things, then the law of averages says that they would have to be right about something eventually.

  124. 124
    D-Chance. says:

    John Cole wrote:
    I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become.

    As someone who registered “R” in 1979 at the tender age of 18, I can’t, either. This is a far cry from (and, indeed, a mockery of) the vision of the Shining City Upon a Hill.

    Rick Taylor Says:
    Are there any reasonably right wing sites out there? Ones I can read, to broaden my outlook, without just getting disgusted?

    I’m beginning to doubt it. Is there ONE solidly and well-read right-wing blog that has come out to CONDEMN this insanity?

    Right now, I don’t know what to think. The fringe left is still the fringe left, and I can’t/don’t buy into them. But the right has swerved so far over to the right that it’s driving with two all four wheels in the ditch. It’s both maddening and saddening at the same time. I don’t feel at home anywhere anymore…

    “A plague o’ both your houses!”

    John S. Says:

    I keep wondering how low these vultures can go.

    I try not to wonder how much lower it can go than beating up on a 12-year-old kid with brain damage.

    I have the same sick feeling in the pit of my stomache that I had 2 1/2 years ago when they were parading around the corpse of Terri Schiavo. I’ve been uncomfortable ever since, and the last couple of days have all but completely pushed me out the gate.

    God, it feels crappy being so bitter, but how can anyone feel otherwise about the current landscape?

  125. 125
    Jay B. says:

    Yes, you are the bad guy—you use children like pedophiles and then complain when others reveal that their parents sold them to you like sheep to the slaughter.

    Their parents sold them down the river by using an extant insurance program underwritten by the federal government? And those awful Democrats fucked ’em good by letting them get health care, physical therapy and the ability to lead somewhat normal lives.

    Seriously. You are demented.

  126. 126
    SueinNM says:

    Stockinger,

    How did we “get caught” pray tell? Have you read any of the actual facts? Have you called insurance companies to findout what their insurance would be when they have two children with preexisting conditions?

    Of course not. Republicans don’t deal in facts, they deal in innuendo and slander. Win at any cost. That’s the name of the game. And compassion? Doesn’t exist in your vocabulary.

    You are the party of lies … lies after lies after lies, from the bottom on down. Your projection is beyond belief. And you ARE the party of pedophiles.

  127. 127
    les says:

    Well, I checked the Moderate Voice link, which I haven’t for quite a while. Joe may be ok–he never seemed that moderate to me–but just like always, his fans are anything but. The predominant comment is, “why should these people expect to have a house and insurance!!??? And he’s got a Suburban!!” Jesus H. Christ. I’ve done the contractor gig; pretty tough to work out of a Pinto. They have no problem with the idea that you should be homeless and destitute before getting a gov’t benefit. And don’t forget, putting the snowflake babies in an ad was different! Moderate my ass.

  128. 128
    chopper says:

    i love the thread at riehl’s. especially the dudes talking about how their insurance isn’t that much. like yeah, my health insurance is affordable, i don’t understand how this dude with two kids with permanent conditions can’t afford to cover them. what’s the difference?

  129. 129
    chopper says:

    g-rant Says:

    The Frosts are the reason libs like the idea of a social safety net. It’s not because “Government = good!”. It’s because it allows people to actually change their lives and improve their social position if the government takes on certain risks that an individual can’t (like health care). I think that’s the big reason for the freak out: the traditional conservative arguments are wrong.

    god knows how many americans with great ideas and the drive to accomplish anything will never get that revolutionary business off the ground because their wife has cancer or their kids a diabetic. sorry, i gotta forever stick with the job that insures us or we’re screwed.

  130. 130
    John S. says:

    A check of a quote engine for zip code 21250 (Baltimore) finds a plan for $641 with a $0 deductible and $20 doc copays.

    In what land of fantasy?

    I pay $460 a month for my family of three on a HDHP plan linked to an HSA account with an annual deductible of $3000, and that was the best I could find here in South Florida. $640 for a family of four with no annual deductible in an urban area? Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense.

    Never mind that the pre-exisitng conditions those kids have makes them practically uninsurable, but even for people without pre-existing conditions that quote smells like bullshit.

  131. 131
    The Populist says:

    SueinNM, don’t forget they want to be macho men. The GOP has turned into the party of folks that were either victimized by bullies as teens (and grew up to take their issues out on the rest of us) or were the bullies themselves (forever crying war, hate, leave me alone without any sense of community or love for thy neighbor).

  132. 132
    The Populist says:

    Wow, Mick – Pot meet kettle!

    Why do you automatically label anybody you disagree with lefties? Shoot, I used to take that as an insult many years ago (before this damned war started) but guess what? If I am to the left of people like you, I say Hallelujah and Praise Gee-sus. You are wrong since you can’t debate the points outside of labelling your opponent.

    Problem is Liberal isn’t such a dirty word since you folks label 70% of this country as such.

    This is a LIB-ERRR-AL democracy. Stop making the word sound like it’s dirty.

    Sheesh you people are lost.

  133. 133
    The Populist says:

    BTW Stock – Last time I checked the GOP was the party of pervs. I love for children to get every chance to grow up safe and succeed. IT’S YOU that wants them to wallow in some sick vision of how things should be.

  134. 134
    binzinerator says:

    Don’t-know-Jack Moss says:

    Doesn’t anyone bother to check the facts?

    Besides taking issue with your glib game with numbers and your silly use of an on-line quote, I noticed you kinda sorta forgot that two of kids in that family have permanent and severe disabilities that are called pre-existing conditions by every company in the business, and are therefore uninsurable.

    You also kinda sorta forgot to mention any sort of limitations your Acme.Com Miracle WonderPlan has, like, um, exclusions to what it actually will cover and the max amount the policy will pay. Even being self-employed, as Graeme Frost’s father is, can have an impact.

    Private insurance plans have these limitations.

    You didn’t bother to check those facts.

    That, or you don’t even have the most basic understanding of how insurance works.

    All you did is obfuscate, distract, insinuate, and make the meaningless sound meaningful. You played a classic little winger game, ignoring the obvious while pulling shit out of your ass and re-arranging it to “prove” your smear.

  135. 135
    binzinerator says:

    Jesus fucking christ, do you folks work to get this god damned stupid?

    Of course they do. That’s why they have this envy, resentment. They worked their asses off for seven long years to accumulate as much stupid as they could, and now they’ve achieved god damned stupid by any man’s measure, they’re feeling entitled. It’s only their due for success in a winner-take-all economy.

    When you work that hard to get stupid, even the brain-damaged kids in this county owe ya something.

  136. 136
    RSA says:

    For what it’s worth, the wingnut argument is that the parents should have had insurance before the accident. Of course, the realistic response is that millions of dollars of medical treatment is probably enough to zero out any reasonably priced policy, and that people make mistakes, such as going without insurance. Wingnuts seem to believe that such mistakes should be lethal not only for individuals but for their families as well.

    On a different point,

    Hypothetical for anybody being harassed by a Malkinite:

    1) If you see a weirdo looking into your windows, walk out calmly and ask what the F—- they think they are doing (if you wanna be nice, ask them “Can I help you?”).

    etc.

    In my imagination, someone calls their local Homeland Security office to say, “There’s a strange woman looking through our windows. She says something about being opposed to government programs, and she wants to know stuff about my workplace and where my kids go to school. Oh, and she’s not white.”

    I think the average 28 percenter would cheer such a report, until. . .

  137. 137
  138. 138
    HyperIon says:

    several points…

    Well, I checked the Moderate Voice link, which I haven’t for quite a while. Joe may be ok—he never seemed that moderate to me—but just like always, his fans are anything but.

    exactly. i had never read comments there before. those are moderates?

    as for getting a family of 6 covered for

  139. 139
    HyperIon says:

    hmmm, part of my post (which looks OK in preview) got cut off AGAIN so….if this doesn’t work, screw it.

    as for getting a family of 6 covered for

  140. 140
    John Cole says:

    LOL @ Hyperion.

  141. 141
    RSA says:

    Guessing: less than == ampersand lt semicolon == “<“, but for some reason the HTML still generally gets eaten.

  142. 142
    RSA says:

    Hey, the doubled equal sign looked good in preview for my post, but not when posted. Oh, well. As I said, ampersand lt semicolon.

  143. 143
    Wilfred says:

    These are the same people who shrugged off the disappearance of 9 billion in Iraq, no? Not counting the half a trillion already sunk in so that Petraeus can buy tomatoes in Kurdistan. Not counting the 30 billion given to Israel to defend against the thundering Islamofascist hordes of mighty Gaza, a total that spread out over 10 years is only 25% less than the 10 year spread for Schip. That sounds like a pretty good campaign commercial.

  144. 144
    HyperIon says:

    RSA Says:

    Guessing: less than ampersand lt semicolon “

    yes, the less than sign…sigh..and now my brilliance is forever lost! and it was a story about my first post here!

  145. 145
    The Populist says:

    RSA,

    You said, “Wingnuts seem to believe that such mistakes should be lethal not only for individuals but for their families as well.”

    And thus lies the hypocrisy of these folks. I don’t hear them condemning Bush for his lack of forsight on this so-called war? I also don’t hear them clamoring for folks like Tom DeLay to own up to their ethics violations. Or how come they throw Newtie Gingrich out of the club for being a serial Adulterer. Or how about chastising Bob Barr for his mistakes. I know, why not go after folks like Vitter?

    Funniest yet is how they only demand personal responsibility from everyone else, but not from one of their “own.”

  146. 146
    jcricket says:

    This brings to mind a post Kevin made at Washington Monthly a little while back. I wish I could find it now, but he was describing how a union was striking for better health insurance, and how people were grumbling about how they had no sympathy for the union; they didn’t have health insurance or it cost them a bundle, so why should the union? Kevin was arguing we need national health care, becase competition is turning us into such small hearted resentful people.

    Here’s the link to that great post. I’m solidly on the side of universal government funded healthcare (cheaper for everyone, better outcomes across the board, less waste, better patient satisfaction, helps entrepreneurs, what’s not to love?). Despite that, this article really made me think about how Republican succeed.

    They turn us against each other (look at the quote from the malkinite/freeper about how she’s just fine suffering, so you should be too) and hope we don’t notice they’re running away with all the money.

    I’m a fricking broken record on this, but it’s straight out of 1984.

  147. 147
    Mr. M'Choakumchild says:

    The Populist Says:

    BTW Stock – Last time I checked the GOP was the party of pervs. I love for children to get every chance to grow up safe and succeed. IT’S YOU that wants them to wallow in some sick vision of how things should be.

    The misery of children is an integral part of the Horatio Alger scenario (the real Horatio Alger, not the fictional version that skips the sexual abuse or children). The child must be utterly dependant on an unrelated adult to sponsor him, so if there is no free education or social safety net, the pedophile sponsor has no power over the child.

    These pervs need society to fail in order to get their jollies.

  148. 148
    Richard Bottoms says:

    I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune.

    Now you finally understand that to this day I haven’t cut you a break or acknowledged your change of heart. Until to day it wasn’t complete, wasn’t enough.

    Welcome to where I’ve been for about 10 years.

    From now on consider anything said about the GOP to apply to others and not you.

  149. 149
    Zuzu says:

    Well, it’s made the New York Times, finally:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10.....ref=slogin

    Looks like they get most of it right, though they give MM waaay more credit than she deserves…and neglect to mention that she actually stalked, and advocated the stalking of, this family.

    Here’s hoping they get plenty of letter correcting them on that last.

  150. 150
    Patrick Carroll says:

    Hmm. So, the actual text of the child’s speech is posted. Total fact. Beauty. Everyone cries to the heavens for justice. Or socialized healthcare. “Fiat justitia, ruat caelum” as it were.

    (And believe me, when Hillary gets her 1984-style health care, the heavens will fall. You guys will get what you want, good and bloody hard.)

    Then, a bunch of facts about the family is posted, which seem to put the family high on the list of ChimpyBusHitlerMacHalliburton’s chosen ones. Total fact. Beauty. Oh, except that Dan Riehl is an asshat, or somesuch.

    Right. Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

    You haven’t learned from history (Well, how could you, non-educated as you were in government schools?), so you’ll just have to learn from experience.

    Poor sods.

  151. 151
    Zuzu says:

    ack Moss Says:

    Do your homework.

    The Frost family has a combined annual income of about $45,000, said Bonnie Frost. She and her husband have priced private health insurance, but they say it would cost them more per month than their mortgage – about $1,200 a month. Neither parent has health insurance through work.

    $1200 per month for a family of 6 in Baltimore. Really? What are they smoking?

    A check of a quote engine for zip code 21250 (Baltimore) finds a plan for $641 with a $0 deductible and $20 doc copays.

    Adding a deductible of $750 (does not apply to doc visits) drops the premium to $452. That’s almost a third of the price quoted in the article. Doesn’t anyone bother to check the facts?

    Apparently not

    Maybe you should do your own homework instead of copying somebody else’s.

    I’d be interested in seeing a legitimate online “quote engine” that will give you a meaningful quote for health insurance on the basis of only a zip code and family size.

    I have yet to see one that doesn’t ask for gender, age, and health background of each family member.

    But go ahead, show us your research.

  152. 152
    Zuzu says:

    Patrick Carroll says: You haven’t learned from history (Well, how could you, non-educated as you were in government schools?), so you’ll just have to learn from experience.

    ————————————

    You mean your parents actually paid someone to teach you to write like that?

  153. 153
    Fledermaus says:

    When you work that hard to get stupid, even the brain-damaged kids in this county owe ya something.

    Priceless.

  154. 154
    Patrick Carroll says:

    Dear Zuzu,

    Congratulations! You have mastered the Democrat Totalitarian Debating Style (c): attack some perceived stylistic thing, rather than abything substantial.

    Apply now to the Hillary Juggernaut! In a few years, you too could be shredding documents from the National Archives.

  155. 155
    Zuzu says:

    Dear Patrick Carroll:

    And how do you know I was commenting only on your, uh, style?

  156. 156
    The Other Andrew says:

    Patrick–if healthcare can be 1984-esque, surely that means the administration’s use of torture is straight out of Dante’s Inferno, yes?

  157. 157

    […] Amusingly, moonbats are defending the life choices of the Frosts by saying they’re “doing what Republicans espouse.” Well, excuse me, but as Dan Riehl points out, that’s a load of hooey. Yes, the Frost children are victims, but not of conservatives. They look more like victims of a couple of mostly spoiled brats who became parents and never felt compelled to take responsibility for themselves when it came to the bottom line on that. There are poor people in America who need help, particularly as regards Health care. The point is, the family above shouldn’t be and simply aren’t among them. Call Dad next time you want some bucks FH. And kindly leave the rest of America’s collective wallet the hell alone. […]

  158. 158
    The Other Andrew says:

    Also, I remember when conservatives were pro-totalitarian. Ahh, 2006…

  159. 159
    TenguPhule says:

    They look more like victims of a couple of mostly spoiled brats who became parents Registered Republicans and never felt compelled to take responsibility for themselves when it came to the bottom line on that.

    Fixed for the Oxymoron called Common Sense.

  160. 160

    […] The attacks on the Frost family continue, When Rhetoric Meets Reality If you look through this family’s dossier, it appears they are doing everything Republicans say they should be doing- hell, their story is almost what you would consider a checklist for good, red-blooded American Republican voters: they own their own business, they pay their taxes, they are still in a committed relationship and are raising their kids, they eschewed public education and are doing what they have to do to get them into Private schools, they are part of the American dream of home ownership that Republicans have been pointing to in the past two administrations as proof of the health of the economy, and so on. […]

  161. 161
    TenguPhule says:

    You haven’t learned from history (Well, how could you, non-educated as you were in government schools?), so you’ll just have to learn from experience.

    Yes, damn those Canadians and Frenchies with their superior health care systems despite lower technology, what were we thinking?

  162. 162
    TenguPhule says:

    Do your homework.

    Right back at ya, Jack Moss.

    Go to any private health insurer and ask for the premiums to cover two children with brain damage. They’ll kick you out so fast your head might even leave your ass for awhile.

  163. 163
    Halfmad says:

    I read some of those comments this morning, and they made me ill. I especially liked the ones shrieking, “Why did they have so many children if they couldn’t afford to pay for them!” This from the party of the Duggars.

  164. 164

    Goddamit, if we let these Frost moochers slide, why, there’ll be an outbreak of parents intentionally getting into near-fatal car accidents just so’s they can get a piece of that sweet, sweet S-CHIP life! You call it a traumatic head injury … I call it living high on the government hog!

    Malkin and the Stalkers are the Dim Blue Line preventing us all from falling into Godless Communism.

  165. 165

    […] Myself, I shan’t miss a world in which a 12 year old sick boy is stalked and attacked by a mindless, baying mob of supposedly civilised adults led by a woman with no sense of morals or shame but with a bottomless well of viciousness and bile. […]

  166. 166

    […] John Cole’s widely quoted declaration: I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune. […]

  167. 167

    […] John Cole’s widely quoted declaration: I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune. […]

  168. 168
    Joe1347 says:

    I’m registering Independent tomorrow.

    Yeah, I think that it’s about time to also switch parties. Goodbye Republican party.

  169. 169

    […] Republican John Cole, writing on Balloon Juice about the attacks on the Frost family: I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune. […]

  170. 170
    Mike says:

    I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune.

    Why can’t you? Haven’t you been paying attention? It’s been headed this way for decades.

  171. 171

    […] You see, Michelle Malkin decided to go cyberstalking AGAIN, using an anonymous Freeper — ‘icwhatudo’ – as an authoritative source. Moreover, the entire Rightie Blogosmear seems to have swallowed the ANONYMOUS coward Freeper’s “outing” of the 12 year old sick kid uncritically, which does nothing to disprove my old hypothesis: the facts are whatever they want the facts to be — from Bush’s illegal invasion and occupation to the present attacks on the family of a sick 12 year old. […]

  172. 172
    Dennis says:

    The Frost Family is the EXACT reason I am against Universal Healthcare. An Affluent family of educated people that have chosen to live this way. I CHOSE to have 2 Kids. I CHOSE a Job with Health Insurance. A home purchased for 55,000 worth 400K now has 350K in equity. Why no insurance?

  173. 173
    Mike B says:

    I am a Conservative Baby Boomer who actually supports all these programs. From Hillarys Baby Bond to Schip and more. The ignorant youth who usually tend to vote liberal will pay for all of it added to my Social Security. I can’t wait for the whining to begin.

  174. 174

    […] When Rhetoric Meets Reality (by John Cole at Balloon Juice) If you look through [the Frost] family’s dossier, it appears they are doing everything Republicans say they should be doing- hell, their story is almost what you would consider a checklist for good, red-blooded American Republican voters… I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Welcome aboard, John.  Some of us began to notice in the early 90s the takeover of the Republican Party by fifth graders. […]

  175. 175
    The Sleeper says:

    Just figured it out, eh, Jonny boy ?

    Well, Bully for you. Better late than never.

    Perhaps with this newfound revelation it might be time to revisit all those other Republican platitudes and “ideals”.

    Perhaps you will now see that These guys AREN’T who they say they are, and their real core values are actually the the OPPOSITE of what is American. They are Anti-American to the core. But they can’t come out with the truth, now can they ? So they HAVE to lie and distort and “frame” and “swiftboat” and have “Signing Statements” and be secretive AND SO ON AND SO ON…..

  176. 176
    Krista says:

    The Frost Family is the EXACT reason I am against Universal Healthcare. An Affluent family of educated people that have chosen to live this way. I CHOSE to have 2 Kids. I CHOSE a Job with Health Insurance. A home purchased for 55,000 worth 400K now has 350K in equity. Why no insurance?

    Dennis, you’re a raving idiot. They HAVE insurance — it’s called CHIP. You may have heard of it?

    But, I presume that all of the wingers are screaming because the Frosts didn’t have private insurance, so let’s investigate why. First of all, you’re assuming that their house is actually paid off and that they have the full amount in equity. Ever hear of a mortgage? And even if they did decide to sell their home, they’d still have to find someplace to live. So, let’s say that they satisfy the wingers by moving. They find a house for $100K (not easy in Baltimore, but hey, let’s just say they get lucky.) That leaves them with about $250K. What are their medical bills right now?

    And, considering that the kids have pre-existing conditions, do you honestly think any private insurance company would touch them with a 10-foot pole? Even if the dad did manage to find a new job, one with healthcare coverage, the odds of those kids being covered are slim to none.

    And if you think $45K in income a year is “Affluent”, then you’re an even greater idiot than I thought.

  177. 177

    […] I was talking to Tim via AOL IM, and I decided it was probably worthwhile to bring this up for everyone. One of the things that is so surprising (for me, at least) about the whole Graeme Frost episode is that rather than make their case against this program with their vicious assault against this family, they Malkin/Freeper/Limbaugh brigade are doing just the opposite. Rather than expose this family as a bunch of frauds and lazy slackers and welfare queens, they are making the family’s case. […]

  178. 178

    […] But there’s more to this story then the simple fact that the right is lying about the Frosts.  This little smear campaign illustrates perfectly how the radical right has been looking America in the eye and lying about itself, about its purpose, its values, its motives, for decades.  Juan Cole (soon to be an ex-republican) sums it all up pretty well here…  […]

  179. 179
    Willie says:

    I’m glad the right has exposed some of this family’s assets. Because if we’re giving handouts to those making above the national average with houses valued at $300,000, I want to make sure I’m in that line.

  180. 180
    John Spragge says:

    In an insightful and funny post, The Last Days of the Dirk Diggler Administration, Jim Henley writes of the characters in Boogie Nights: “They’ve got no rhetorical gearbox, just a gas pedal. They can’t back up or turn. They can only flood the engine.” He goes on, of course, to suggest that George Bush, like the characters in Boogie Nights, has this inability to make a serious argument: he just repeats his assertions with a slightly puzzled look.

    George Bush’s supporters appear to have decided that their collective behavior should mirror his, but on a grand scale. Here we have the proponents of a profoundly unpopular president, trying to support his rejection of a very popular policy. What do they do? They attack a twelve-year-old and a small businessman. And nobody on the right tries to stop them. I find this more interesting, in a discouraging way, than anything else. Never mind decency or morality; nobody on the right appears to have noticed that declaring a twelve-year-old “fair game”, tends to turn off voters and drive people away from the party. In a democracy, with an election coming up, this has a definite downside. A huge torrent of enraged, self-contradictory attack speech pours out, regardless of logic, decency, or basic political common sense, and where on the right does anybody say: look, John Cole just switched his affiliation to “independent”. Do we really want to go on doing this?

    To the extent that Michelle Malkin et. al. have imposed this style of argument on the right as a whole, they will have helped elect a democratic president and congress.

  181. 181
    Kuvasz says:

    Welcome to the fight Mr. Coles, a lesser man would simply ask, “what took you so damned long to see the base greed and inhumanity that seethes on the Right masquarading as individualism,” nevertheless, roll up your sleeves and wash up, we’ve got a job to do stopping the lesser angels of our nature from destroying this country.

  182. 182
    mediapolitic says:

    Last night I was repacking for storage a couple boxes of mementos from my life — there were a couple Reagan / Bush shirts and stickers and Bush / Qualye stuff and an old Republican-registered voter registration card. And it dawned on me. It was just this kind of Graeme Frost craziness that caused me to leave the party a while ago. Maybe my tolerance for it was lower than others, maybe it’s even gotten worse lately. At any rate, the party left me awhile ago.

    However, it’s gotten worse. The past many years have been filled with a Thing called the Republican Party which is in reality just a grotesque, staggering, groaning, bloodthirsty, unthinking zombie version of the once living thing I used to love. And, as with any of those movies, if, for a minute you think that it is still the same then you too will likely become infected and become part of the monster. It’s best to just stand back, shoot it in the head, and rebuild from there.

  183. 183
    tom fife says:

    Gee,

    A couple of lifetime mooches that live in a 3000 square foot home and have the money to send four children to private schools and own rental property with one of them working part time and the other working intermittently need people to subsidize their choices. Yeah, they chose to not have insurance before the accident as other things were more important. Choosing a couple of self indulgent overage adolescents as your poster family for federal insurance coverage is a winning proposition. I make less money than them, but somehow manage to have health insurance. Yet, you want me to subsidize their bad choices.

  184. 184
    Bombadil says:

    Gee,

    A couple of lifetime mooches that live in a 3000 square foot home and have the money to send four children to private schools and own rental property with one of them working part time and the other working intermittently need people to subsidize their choices. Yeah, they chose to not have insurance before the accident as other things were more important. Choosing a couple of self indulgent overage adolescents as your poster family for federal insurance coverage is a winning proposition. I make less money than them, but somehow manage to have health insurance. Yet, you want me to subsidize their bad choices.

    Yes we do. And we’re willing to grab you by the ankles and shake you upside down to collect the change falling from your pockets. And we’re going to force you to sell off your countertops, divest yourself of all of your property and submit to random interrogation by left-wing bloggers to prove that we’ve taken everything from you that we possibly can.

    Resistance is futile.

  185. 185
    Egilsson says:

    Dennis,

    Haven’t you heard of mortgages? Plus, this family had to refinance in 2005 for money to fix the house to accomodate their injured kids.

    Further, if you tap equity through an equity loan, you have to pay it back. It’s not like free money or something. Tapping housing equity on limited income is pretty dangerous stuff because you have to live somewhere.

    Unless you feel they should first lose their home and become completely improvished.

    That’s a hell of a vision for America. You sicken me.

  186. 186

    […] October 10th, 2007 Ya know, I’ve been following what Malkin, Free Republic, Riehl and the like have been doing to Graeme Frost’s family.  I can’t post much of anything on it, because any honest, no-holds-barred post I write about it right now would probably get me arrested. It’s one of those little things about living in a civilized society — sometimes you have to know where the boundaries are. And yet, there are continual examples of other people that don’t have any boundaries at all. […]

  187. 187
    HyperIon says:

    why do people keep going on about the 3000 sq foot house?

    i know many 2 or 3 person households who have such space. if there are 6 kids and 2 parents, 3000 sq ft doesn’t seem that big to me.

    we are a nation of morons. spoiled morons. but fred thompson had his lapel pin on yesterday. god bless america.

  188. 188

    […] I’d long had John Cole bookmarked as a sort of example of a “sane Republican.” He is now a former Republican and has turned on the conservative movement with a venom that takes you aback: I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune. […]

  189. 189
    JustSam says:

    I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become.

    It gladdens my heart to read this. Sincere conversions – or at least sincere leave-takings from insanity – are the best thing we can hope for as people who take an interest in and work for the betterment of society. Forget the louts on both sides of the political divide who grunt about a brewing civil war. This post is just the kind of thing I love to see.

    I’m happy to extend to you a very warm welcome.

    To 1973.

  190. 190
    dhonig says:

    The truly scary part is the underlying theme- personal loyalty. The Republican attack dogs, Malkin, Limbaugh, Coulter, et al., conflate “George W. Bush” with “America.” Bush does not want to expand SCHIP, therefore it is unamerican to expand SCHIP. There is something deeply and terrifyingly wrong with this point of view, but at its core, this is what is happening.

  191. 191
    HyperIon says:

    oops!

    if there are 6 kids and 2 parents

    should have written 4 kids and 2 parents.

  192. 192
    Foreigner says:

    Maybe this calls for congressional Democrats to condemn Moveon.org again?

    Fuck, I hate you Americans. You are singularly the nastiest people on the face of the Earth today.

  193. 193
    FCYTravis says:

    The Frosts get major scholarship assistance to send their children to private school.

    And yeah, I’d like to join the chorus that’s asking when income of $45k for a family of four became affluence. That’s just a little more than twice the poverty level, for God’s sake.

    The Republican mantra: “Not below the poverty line? Then you’re RICH! You just don’t know it! You really need tax cuts and capital gains and stock investments… just make sure you pay for our silly little overseas military adventures. What? You’re below the poverty line? Then you’re a freeloading welfare cheat who should be put in prison.”

  194. 194
    FCYTravis says:

    Oops, family of SIX! So they’re making less than $20k over poverty line and are now allegedly “affluent.”

    What a crock.

  195. 195
    Michael says:

    “Nobody even pointed to the numerous charities that we conservatives are supposed to expect to fill the gap so the government doesn’t have to pay for things.”

    Those aren’t charities that are getting such a healthy set of donations. Those are churches.

    Think of it as the equivalent of club membership dues, with the bonus being that you can feel good about pretending to do a good thing!

  196. 196

    […] The entire John Cole link is worthwhile.  Here’s my favorite bit: If you look through this family’s dossier, it appears they are doing everything Republicans say they should be doing- hell, their story is almost what you would consider a checklist for good, red-blooded American Republican voters: they own their own business, they pay their taxes, they are still in a committed relationship and are raising their kids, they eschewed public education and are doing what they have to do to get them into Private schools, they are part of the American dream of home ownership that Republicans have been pointing to in the past two administrations as proof of the health of the economy, and so on. […]

  197. 197
    God Dissed America says:

    C’mon, now! Quit your griping. Everybody knows that a crippled 12 year old can hack it more than an Army General.

    Besides, this kid should be sent to Iraq so we taxpayers can get a return on our investment.

    Seriously, though. Thank you John Cole. I’m thinking of joining you as an Independent – from the Democrats. But that’s another story.

  198. 198
    Karen Andrews says:

    NO sense in arguing with these people. The righties are just mean and NUTS. They just need to get the sand kicked in their faces and their asses kicked once they are down. No more cowardly dems, fight them with every nasty trick we have. They have now made children fair game. A bunch of scared, viagra snorting pigs and enabler wives. I am just sick of them and I want them to disappear from the national broadcast mechanism. And if I ever see Michelle Malkin on my lawn, I will personally beat the living crap out of her.

    Signed

    A truly pissed off DEM

  199. 199
    BB says:

    Well it’s about time you dropped the R.

    Why the surprise about this group ot thugs who has shown that they value their leader and party above all principles?

    R’s: where “family values” means enegging in pedophelia, prostitution, and annonymous sex in bathrooms.

    R: where “sensible foreign policy” means lying us into a war run by R cronies (haliburton, blackwater, parsons, bechtel) who spend their time overcharging and stealing everything they can touch.

    R: where “supporting the troops” means not supplying proper body armor (making sure to use only R connected suppliers), making service men and women buy their own, finding ways to avoid giving service men and women health care and GI bill benefits.

    R: Where “free market” means no-bid contracts, encouraging monopolies (Microsoft, the telcoms, energy producers) and giving subsidies to donors.

    R: Where being worried about proliferation of WMD means burning CIA officers who work on the topic (Valerie Plame)

    R: where being in favor of smaller government means just the opposite

    R: where fighting for the “small guy” means lowering Ken Lay’s taxes, raising taxes on working people to “keep social security solvent”, spending the money working people have saved for social security, and then saying social security is too expensive to keep paying for because Ken Lay needs needs another tax cut so he can buy a 10th vacation home.

    R: where “listening to the generals” means overthrowing the Powell doctrine and firing every general who does not parrot the party line.

    R: where principles means pandering to the base and flipflopping on gun control, abortion, etc. (the dude running for president)

    R: where being against “elitism” means having your party run by a guy whose only qualification for anything was being a third generation aristocrat.

    R: Where believing in the “rule of law” means “if the president does it it’s not illegal”

    R: where believing that “they hate us for our freedom” means we should have less freedom.

  200. 200
    God Dissed America says:

    R: Where “If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face–for ever.”

  201. 201
    Jay says:

    I have to laugh at the irony of a bunch of nimrods blubbering like schoolgirls about the big mean Republicans, yet nobody seems to care that the Democrats chose to use this 12 year old boy as a political prop. And John, before you climbed out of your pod, you’d have been one of the first to hit the Democrats right between the eye for pulling a stunt like this.

    They’re going to get their political mileage out of this, but guess what? If the program doesn’t change and this family doesn’t get covered, the same Democrats who weep for this poor family WON’T DO A FUCKING THING FOR THEM.

    Once the tank runs dry on the political gas the Dems get out of this, they’ll say, “Who?” when asked about Graeme Frost afterwards.

    So get the hell over yourselves.

  202. 202
    MARTinNJ says:

    The original blog says that the family might as well be good Republicans. YEAH RIGHT! No where does it say that the father is looking for dick in public bathroom stalls. So how do you figure that they sound like good Republicans? OK? Answer me that!

  203. 203
    John Spragge says:

    Tom Fife wrote:

    A couple of lifetime mooches that live in a 3000 square foot home and have the money to send four children to private schools and own rental property with one of them working part time and the other working intermittently need people to subsidize their choices.

    On the subject of people with “no rhetorical gearbox or clutch, just a gas pedal…” I present a perfect example of the type. Let me explain something to those of you who don’t get it: when someone tells you that only a heartless cretin would say X, saying X over again probably won’t get them to change their mind. Offering serious evidence for X (assuming you have any) might do the trick. Saying Y, where Y gets at what you really want to say in a different and less offensive way might get you somewhere as well. But repeating X like Bill Murray on “Groundhog Day” will only get people more annoyed.

  204. 204
    Innocent Bystander says:

    Mike B Says:

    I am a Conservative Baby Boomer who actually supports all these programs. From Hillarys Baby Bond to Schip and more. The ignorant youth who usually tend to vote liberal will pay for all of it added to my Social Security. I can’t wait for the whining to begin.

    That’s rich coming from a “conservative” who’s party took a $400BB surplus and turned it into a $600BB structural deficit. I’m sure you don’t mind building billion dollar embassies in occupied countries fighting an unwinnable war at the cost of $1BB/day. Excuse the rest of us, if your “conservative” credentials aren’t taken too seriously.

    And, John, welcome to the Dark Side. Despite being a baby boomer liberal McGovern Democrat, I can say that it must be pretty depressing to reach that point where you feel you can no longer stomach the Republican Party label. I know if the tables were turned and it was the Democrats who were the political architects of the past 10 years….I’d have become a Republican a loooong time. Seriously, the Republican Party today is an organized crime syndicate that masquerades as a political party.

    And most of those that are leading the charge of faux outrage against the Frosts?….well, check who’s underwriting their wingnut welfare checks. I’m betting most of the orchestra is deep in the pockets of Big Pharma and the For Profit Healthcare Industry.

  205. 205
    TenguPhule says:

    Jay Says:
    I have to laugh at the irony of a bunch of nimrods blubbering like schoolgirls about the big mean Republicans, yet nobody seems to care that the Democrats chose to use this 12 year old boy as a political prop.

    Shorter Jay: You should expect Rightwingers to behave like rabid dogs who can only be stopped by being put down.

  206. 206
    mclaren says:

    Wow. John Cole is getting some major exposure on this one. You’re all over metafilter. Wonder how long it’ll be before Michelle Malkin starts cruising around outside John Cole’s house and grilling his co-workers about “un-American activities” and “subversion of the government”?

    Thought I’d seen Malkin’s lower depths when she released the Santa Cruz students’ email addresses and phone numbers, but I’ve never seen behavior this batsh*t insane from anyone who wasn’t brainfried on drugs or stone psychotic. So John Cole may want to invest in a bulletproof vest. If Malkin and company are this far around the bend, who knows what they’re capable of?

    Really, this is approaching Kristalnacht territory.

  207. 207
    whipporwill says:

    Jay says

    have to laugh at the irony of a bunch of nimrods blubbering like schoolgirls about the big mean Republicans, yet nobody seems to care that the Democrats chose to use this 12 year old boy as a political prop. And John, before you climbed out of your pod, you’d have been one of the first to hit the Democrats right between the eye for pulling a stunt like this.

    OK. Then what about the “Snow Flake Children” Bush paraded out in front of the cameras as a “political prop” for his stance against embryo stem cell research expansion.

    And how many liberals “investigated” these families to see if they were legitimate. Answer NONE, fucktard.

  208. 208
    Jay says:

    OK. Then what about the “Snow Flake Children” Bush paraded out in front of the cameras as a “political prop” for his stance against embryo stem cell research expansion.

    If, “Well what about Bush…?” is the best you can do to defend the Democrats exploitation of a 12 year old kid and his family (who don’t even fall under the umbrella of the requested expansion of the program), that’s pretty lame.

    “Fucktard.” Whoa. I’m hurt.

  209. 209

    […] 1.) I have noticed a trend regarding those who think it was acceptable to savage this family, and it is best illustrated by a comment from Jay Caruso in the comments section: […]

  210. 210
    whipporwill says:

    jay says

    f, “Well what about Bush…?” is the best you can do to defend the Democrats exploitation of a 12 year old kid and his family (who don’t even fall under the umbrella of the requested expansion of the program), that’s pretty lame.

    My comment was to show the difference between how dems respond to children used as political props compared to republicans. Citing the example of snow flake children was not an effort to justify dems use of G. Frost. It is always fascinating how wingnuts spin everything that crosses their path.

    Anyway, John Cole has described it better than I can in his most recent thread. You ought to read it Jay, you just might learn something.

  211. 211
    Daniel says:

    I couldn’t understand some parts of this article o.us poetry, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.

  212. 212
    LnGrrrR says:

    Here’s my question. All these Republicans are essentially arguing, “These guys have a home that’s worth alot and an expensive-ish vehicle! They should sell those for health insurance!”

    So wait… health insurance is so expensive that people making about 45k a year are expected to sell their house and car to afford it?

    I’ve seen so many of them say, “I live in a trailor to afford health care! I did the responsible thing!” Uhm… wtf? Honestly, you think that’s a POSITIVE thing for America?

  213. 213
    Max says:

    Whoa..Be kind to Jay Caruso..he can’t help but spew forth stupid comments because he’s out of his league. Over 70% of the country has smelled the coffee (and country) burning, and Jay is still offering lame excuses for his razornut party. Jay offers some great insights on his sports page about politics..”it won’t get any better if a Democrat is elected in 2008.” Yeah, go back to your sports.

  214. 214
    Ian says:

    Brilliant article. It is a testament to just how broken our health care system is that a family such as this, that on the surface does not seem that badly off financially and doesn’t fit the typical definition of “poor,” in fact is red-lining when one little variable – health insurance – is inserted into their financial picture.

  215. 215
    Human says:

    Hi John. Welcome to the Independent Club. I was a Dem for 26 yrs ’til Nov. ’04

    Having never read you before, I don’t know your politics, but what are your National priorities and which candidate announced or not, best meets your expectation of goals?

    Peace.

  216. 216

    The Blogs of War, Day 4: Upper Left

    Shaun Dale is a long-time no-apologies Democratic party activist and a Seattle-based populist’s populist. He publishes Upper Left–and at least you know where he’s coming from. He approvingly quotes John Cole, another Blog of War blogger (next week):…

  217. 217
    Kate says:

    I’m confused. I thought conservatives sneered at unions who wanted health insurance. I thought they think that employees who needed health insurance were weak useless and unamerican.

    And now they are creaming people for not having a job that has it? There are less and less companies willing to pay for health insurance anymore and that’s supposed to be good for our economy so our corporations can make more money than the chinese do.

  218. 218

    Jay learn something?

    Please. Don’t make me laugh.

  219. 219
    Tax Analyst says:

    BB Says:

    Well it’s about time you dropped the R.

    Why the surprise about this group ot thugs who has shown that they value their leader and party above all principles?

    R’s: where “family values” means enegging in pedophelia, prostitution, and annonymous sex in bathrooms.

    You left out the part about the double-wetsuits and the condom-covered dildo up the poop-chute.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/a.....cuba1.html

  220. 220
    DavidTC says:

    I’ve very confused at how stupid all the Republicans and some of the Democrats appear to be.

    The girl has brain damage. She cannot, under any circumstances, get privately insured, period, full stop. It does ‘cost’ 400 a month, it doesn’t ‘cost’ 1500 a month, it does not in any way exist at all. It is like arguing how tall Bigfoot is.

    The only way it would be possible for her to get insurance outside of CHIP would be for the family to find a job with health insurance. Of which there are fewer and fewer in certain fields. (Thanks to, mostly, Republican policies)

  221. 221
    Human says:

    I guess that was too hard of a query.
    NEXT!

  222. 222
    KatieB says:

    Why don’t any of these frothy “personal responsibility” types get upset over the socialized medicine provided to our elected officials? It’s like they’re saying, socialism is fine for the rich and powerful, but we should have nothing but cut-throat corporate-run capitalism for the average joe. Hm. Nice.
    John, I honestly don’t know how you made it as a registered Republican this long. A great many of us cannot stomach either party in our 2-party system. You’ve joined the club of the disenfranchised. Welcome.

  223. 223
    A Patriot says:

    I am actually registering for the first time AS a Republican!

    Why? – a certain candidate who actually acts and sounds like a conservative for the first time in decades:

    RON PAUL!

    Now just because the media tells us he’s not a candidate doesn’t make it so.

    Why don’t we show the corporate hacks (with their welfare mentality) that we CAN elect leaders who will kick their ass off the government couch and force them to WORK for a living.

    That’s the kind of effective change we need right now – we simply must ignore the TV propoganda and vote for the candidate who actually serves The People and not some multi-chinned CEO or some Saudi “Daddy Warbucks”

    Nothin’ to it but to do it – or is this country no longer really free?

    I say we’re the Decider!

  224. 224

    […] And John Cole drops out of the republican party in disgust. digg_url = ‘http://suspect-device.com/blog’; digg_bgcolor = ‘cbcab6’; digg_skin = ‘compact’; […]

  225. 225

    […] Okay. I jumped the gun a bit on the Randi Rhodes "mugging" story. My bad. (This is something you’ll never see from a serial liar like Michelle MalKKKin, wingnuts. Pay attention. It’s called responsible blogging. You might want to look into it sometime.) […]

  226. 226

    […] Even Michelle was accused of having hand in this “attack” by the blog JABbering Stooge with the line, “Hey Stalkin Malkin, care to tell us something about this?” Later in the day, stooge posted, “Okay. I jumped the gun a bit on the Randi Rhodes “mugging” story. My bad. (This is something you’ll never see from a serial liar like Michelle MalKKKin, wingnuts. Pay attention. It’s called responsible blogging. You might want to look into it sometime.) […]

  227. 227

    […] I had meant to re-register independent (or as it is known here in West Virginia, “No Party Affiliation”) for the past two weeks after I had finally had enough of the bullshit during the Graeme Frost escapade, but never got around to it (and it really was not that big of a deal, I had made the mental commitment, which is what matters). I had to pick up a registered letter for an unrelated issue, so I went to the Court House to the Voter Registration Office. […]

  228. 228

    […] Re: How The Democratz Have Fallen From: 3831 Dead On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 14:00:54 GMT, YoMomma@home.org (waybackjack) wrote: >Such shitheads we have running every four years for president, >especially the Democrats which have been hijacked by Marxists. > >This ain’t the same party as that of JFK, Scoop Jackson, FDR, or my >family’s hero, the brilliant Adlai Stevenson. > >Yeah, I’m still a registered dem but soooooooo ashamed of it. That’s OK. I imagine the Democrats are pretty ashamed of you, too. > >Would switch to the repubs but they ain’t much better, rubber-legged >pussies. — What do you call a Republican with a conscience? An ex-Republican. http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c) “I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can […]

  229. 229

    […] From: 3921 Dead On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:59:27 -0500, raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:52:33 -0800, Foxtrot <foxtrot@null.com wrote: raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com wrote: Foxtrot <foxtrot@null.com wrote: 3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com wrote: And obsessing about it won’t change that. Another Billy butt-boy who can’t answer the questions! If he’s such an angel, please explain why: 1) Al Grrrr wouldn’t be seen with him in 2000. Because he was recently impeached, and Gore didn’t want to distract from the campaign? Exactly Birdbrain, that’s my point. BJ had just been impeached so Al Grrrr didn’t want to be seen next to him. Because the media would be focused on Clinton, not on the Gore campaign. What’s so difficult to understand about this? It says nothing about Clinton personally, but on how the media would play it. I notice that these days, Clinton has no trouble at all getting invites from nearly every Democrat running for office other than the Presidential race. And why not? He’s by far the most popular and most respected politician in America today. George W? Not so well loved or respected… 2) Ketchup Boy was seldom seen in public with him in 2004. Clinton did campaign for Kerry. Occasionally but not much. That’s why I said seldom. If BJ is so popular, why wasn’t Ketchup Boy constantly stumping with him? When was the last time you saw a departing or former President take a more active role in an election? And why didn’t Ketchup Boy win the election by 20%? Running a terrible campaign, and failing to effectively respond to the Slime Boat Veterans For Outrageous Lies played a far greater role than any involvement by Bill Clinton. Not to mention an array of Rovian Dirty Tricks, including probable vote fraud in Ohio. BTW, what’s your point? You can’t have things both ways: was Clinton a factor in the election for better or worse, or wasn’t he? Your last two questions don’t play well together. 3) He’s heavily campaigning for Battleax He’s married to Hillary. Why wouldn’t he campaign for her? and she’s in trouble. Really? What was the result of the New Hampshire primary? How did she do in Iowa? If Billy is so popular, why isn’t she ahead by 40%? How did Bill do in Iowa? And how was she expected to do in a largely conservative state, where Evangelicals make up a huge voting bloc? You’re spouting nonsense. The truth is that BJ is very popular among partisan Dems because he weaseled his way out of trouble. But beyond that he’s a pariah. What was his approval rating nationwide on leaving office? The Battleax is struggling within her own party because many Dems don’t want 4/8 years of their sleaziness. Of course. Obviously Obama’s Rock Star level of charisma, especially among younger voters, has nothing to do with his ability to give Hillary a run for her money. — “Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to skyscrapers…” — What do you call a Republican with a conscience? An ex-Republican. http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c) “I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can […]

  230. 230
    ilahiler says:

    Okay. I jumped the gun a bit on the Randi Rhodes “mugging” story. My bad. (This is something you’ll never see from a serial liar like Michelle MalKKKin, wingnuts. Pay attention. It’s called responsible blogging. You might want to look into it sometim

  231. 231

    […] abuses moderates like him), Gregg can look forward to the kind of hate that only Jim Jeffords and a sick twelve year old kid can possibly […]

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] abuses moderates like him), Gregg can look forward to the kind of hate that only Jim Jeffords and a sick twelve year old kid can possibly […]

  2. […] From: 3921 Dead On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:59:27 -0500, raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com wrote: On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:52:33 -0800, Foxtrot <foxtrot@null.com wrote: raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com wrote: Foxtrot <foxtrot@null.com wrote: 3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com wrote: And obsessing about it won’t change that. Another Billy butt-boy who can’t answer the questions! If he’s such an angel, please explain why: 1) Al Grrrr wouldn’t be seen with him in 2000. Because he was recently impeached, and Gore didn’t want to distract from the campaign? Exactly Birdbrain, that’s my point. BJ had just been impeached so Al Grrrr didn’t want to be seen next to him. Because the media would be focused on Clinton, not on the Gore campaign. What’s so difficult to understand about this? It says nothing about Clinton personally, but on how the media would play it. I notice that these days, Clinton has no trouble at all getting invites from nearly every Democrat running for office other than the Presidential race. And why not? He’s by far the most popular and most respected politician in America today. George W? Not so well loved or respected… 2) Ketchup Boy was seldom seen in public with him in 2004. Clinton did campaign for Kerry. Occasionally but not much. That’s why I said seldom. If BJ is so popular, why wasn’t Ketchup Boy constantly stumping with him? When was the last time you saw a departing or former President take a more active role in an election? And why didn’t Ketchup Boy win the election by 20%? Running a terrible campaign, and failing to effectively respond to the Slime Boat Veterans For Outrageous Lies played a far greater role than any involvement by Bill Clinton. Not to mention an array of Rovian Dirty Tricks, including probable vote fraud in Ohio. BTW, what’s your point? You can’t have things both ways: was Clinton a factor in the election for better or worse, or wasn’t he? Your last two questions don’t play well together. 3) He’s heavily campaigning for Battleax He’s married to Hillary. Why wouldn’t he campaign for her? and she’s in trouble. Really? What was the result of the New Hampshire primary? How did she do in Iowa? If Billy is so popular, why isn’t she ahead by 40%? How did Bill do in Iowa? And how was she expected to do in a largely conservative state, where Evangelicals make up a huge voting bloc? You’re spouting nonsense. The truth is that BJ is very popular among partisan Dems because he weaseled his way out of trouble. But beyond that he’s a pariah. What was his approval rating nationwide on leaving office? The Battleax is struggling within her own party because many Dems don’t want 4/8 years of their sleaziness. Of course. Obviously Obama’s Rock Star level of charisma, especially among younger voters, has nothing to do with his ability to give Hillary a run for her money. — “Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to skyscrapers…” — What do you call a Republican with a conscience? An ex-Republican. http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c) “I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can […]

  3. […] Re: How The Democratz Have Fallen From: 3831 Dead On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 14:00:54 GMT, YoMomma@home.org (waybackjack) wrote: >Such shitheads we have running every four years for president, >especially the Democrats which have been hijacked by Marxists. > >This ain’t the same party as that of JFK, Scoop Jackson, FDR, or my >family’s hero, the brilliant Adlai Stevenson. > >Yeah, I’m still a registered dem but soooooooo ashamed of it. That’s OK. I imagine the Democrats are pretty ashamed of you, too. > >Would switch to the repubs but they ain’t much better, rubber-legged >pussies. — What do you call a Republican with a conscience? An ex-Republican. http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c) “I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can […]

  4. […] I had meant to re-register independent (or as it is known here in West Virginia, “No Party Affiliation”) for the past two weeks after I had finally had enough of the bullshit during the Graeme Frost escapade, but never got around to it (and it really was not that big of a deal, I had made the mental commitment, which is what matters). I had to pick up a registered letter for an unrelated issue, so I went to the Court House to the Voter Registration Office. […]

  5. […] Even Michelle was accused of having hand in this “attack” by the blog JABbering Stooge with the line, “Hey Stalkin Malkin, care to tell us something about this?” Later in the day, stooge posted, “Okay. I jumped the gun a bit on the Randi Rhodes “mugging” story. My bad. (This is something you’ll never see from a serial liar like Michelle MalKKKin, wingnuts. Pay attention. It’s called responsible blogging. You might want to look into it sometime.) […]

  6. […] Okay. I jumped the gun a bit on the Randi Rhodes "mugging" story. My bad. (This is something you’ll never see from a serial liar like Michelle MalKKKin, wingnuts. Pay attention. It’s called responsible blogging. You might want to look into it sometime.) […]

  7. […] And John Cole drops out of the republican party in disgust. digg_url = ‘http://suspect-device.com/blog’; digg_bgcolor = ‘cbcab6’; digg_skin = ‘compact’; […]

  8. The Blogs of War, Day 4: Upper Left

    Shaun Dale is a long-time no-apologies Democratic party activist and a Seattle-based populist’s populist. He publishes Upper Left–and at least you know where he’s coming from. He approvingly quotes John Cole, another Blog of War blogger (next week):…

  9. […] 1.) I have noticed a trend regarding those who think it was acceptable to savage this family, and it is best illustrated by a comment from Jay Caruso in the comments section: […]

  10. […] The entire John Cole link is worthwhile.  Here’s my favorite bit: If you look through this family’s dossier, it appears they are doing everything Republicans say they should be doing- hell, their story is almost what you would consider a checklist for good, red-blooded American Republican voters: they own their own business, they pay their taxes, they are still in a committed relationship and are raising their kids, they eschewed public education and are doing what they have to do to get them into Private schools, they are part of the American dream of home ownership that Republicans have been pointing to in the past two administrations as proof of the health of the economy, and so on. […]

  11. […] I’d long had John Cole bookmarked as a sort of example of a “sane Republican.” He is now a former Republican and has turned on the conservative movement with a venom that takes you aback: I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune. […]

  12. […] October 10th, 2007 Ya know, I’ve been following what Malkin, Free Republic, Riehl and the like have been doing to Graeme Frost’s family.  I can’t post much of anything on it, because any honest, no-holds-barred post I write about it right now would probably get me arrested. It’s one of those little things about living in a civilized society — sometimes you have to know where the boundaries are. And yet, there are continual examples of other people that don’t have any boundaries at all. […]

  13. […] But there’s more to this story then the simple fact that the right is lying about the Frosts.  This little smear campaign illustrates perfectly how the radical right has been looking America in the eye and lying about itself, about its purpose, its values, its motives, for decades.  Juan Cole (soon to be an ex-republican) sums it all up pretty well here…  […]

  14. […] I was talking to Tim via AOL IM, and I decided it was probably worthwhile to bring this up for everyone. One of the things that is so surprising (for me, at least) about the whole Graeme Frost episode is that rather than make their case against this program with their vicious assault against this family, they Malkin/Freeper/Limbaugh brigade are doing just the opposite. Rather than expose this family as a bunch of frauds and lazy slackers and welfare queens, they are making the family’s case. […]

  15. […] When Rhetoric Meets Reality (by John Cole at Balloon Juice) If you look through [the Frost] family’s dossier, it appears they are doing everything Republicans say they should be doing- hell, their story is almost what you would consider a checklist for good, red-blooded American Republican voters… I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Welcome aboard, John.  Some of us began to notice in the early 90s the takeover of the Republican Party by fifth graders. […]

  16. […] You see, Michelle Malkin decided to go cyberstalking AGAIN, using an anonymous Freeper — ‘icwhatudo’ – as an authoritative source. Moreover, the entire Rightie Blogosmear seems to have swallowed the ANONYMOUS coward Freeper’s “outing” of the 12 year old sick kid uncritically, which does nothing to disprove my old hypothesis: the facts are whatever they want the facts to be — from Bush’s illegal invasion and occupation to the present attacks on the family of a sick 12 year old. […]

  17. […] Republican John Cole, writing on Balloon Juice about the attacks on the Frost family: I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune. […]

  18. […] John Cole’s widely quoted declaration: I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune. […]

  19. […] John Cole’s widely quoted declaration: I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their misfortune. […]

  20. […] Myself, I shan’t miss a world in which a 12 year old sick boy is stalked and attacked by a mindless, baying mob of supposedly civilised adults led by a woman with no sense of morals or shame but with a bottomless well of viciousness and bile. […]

  21. […] The attacks on the Frost family continue, When Rhetoric Meets Reality If you look through this family’s dossier, it appears they are doing everything Republicans say they should be doing- hell, their story is almost what you would consider a checklist for good, red-blooded American Republican voters: they own their own business, they pay their taxes, they are still in a committed relationship and are raising their kids, they eschewed public education and are doing what they have to do to get them into Private schools, they are part of the American dream of home ownership that Republicans have been pointing to in the past two administrations as proof of the health of the economy, and so on. […]

  22. […] Amusingly, moonbats are defending the life choices of the Frosts by saying they’re “doing what Republicans espouse.” Well, excuse me, but as Dan Riehl points out, that’s a load of hooey. Yes, the Frost children are victims, but not of conservatives. They look more like victims of a couple of mostly spoiled brats who became parents and never felt compelled to take responsibility for themselves when it came to the bottom line on that. There are poor people in America who need help, particularly as regards Health care. The point is, the family above shouldn’t be and simply aren’t among them. Call Dad next time you want some bucks FH. And kindly leave the rest of America’s collective wallet the hell alone. […]

  23. […] Posted in GOP tagged SCHIP at 12:31 pm by LeisureGuy John Cole is another conservative who believes that the GOP has jumped the track and lost its way. This post about what the right-wingers are doing to the Frost family is right on target, I think. […]

  24. […] UPDATE: John Cole is making sense: If you look through this family’s dossier, it appears they are doing everything Republicans say they should be doing- hell, their story is almost what you would consider is a checklist for good, red-blooded American Republican voters: they own their own business, they pay their taxes, they are still in a committed relationship and are raising their kids, they eschewed public education and are doing what they have to do to get them into Private schools, they are part of the American dream of home ownership that Republicans have been pointing to in the past two administrations as proof of the health of the economy, and so on. […]

  25. […] It is not often John Cole over at Balloon Juice and I agree, but today we do so mark it on your calendars: they [the Frosts] own their own business, they pay their taxes, they are still in a committed relationship and are raising their kids, they eschewed public education and are doing what they have to do to get them into Private schools, they are part of the American dream of home ownership that Republicans have been pointing to in the past two administrations as proof of the health of the economy, and so on. […]

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