Thursday Open Thread

Couldn’t sleep last night, so I ended up listening/watching/trying to fall asleep while watching the reruns of the Democratic Debate (normally I use C-Span on a 20 minute auto-timer shutoff on the tv, but the debates were on, so I said what the hell). Some observations:

1.) Kucinich has no chance at winning.
2.) Obama is not ready for primetime.
3.) Edwards seems almost to be trying too hard to be the outsider.
4.) It would not surprise me at all to hear Gavel, at some point in a future debate, yell “GET OFF MY GRASS.”
5.) I still like Dodd and Richardson.
6.) Biden came off better than usual last night, and had several moments of straightforward honesty (one thing he said that stuck me as true was when he was talking about Hillary having problems getting things done because she is Hillary and comes with all her baggage from the 90’s).
7.) Nothing is going to stop Hillary.

Consider this an open thread.






68 replies
  1. 1

    Tim,

    Do you think after the show put on this past week with regards to our glorious saviors, the donks, that being the “outsider” or attempting to stake out that turf is such a bad tactical plan?

    Richardson looks worse and worse everytime he gets in front of a camera without a script, which is sad, because as an American of Latino heritage, I would love to see him go all the way, especially with the resume he brings to the table…Dodd is looking mighty good to me as well.

    *sigh* Hillary…

  2. 2
    Amuzon says:

    Apparently Obama was feeling ill last night, which could explain his lackluster performance. I noticed he started strong (his first 2 or maybe 3 answers), but faded dramatically by the end.

  3. 3
    scarshapedstar says:

    More Gore, please.

  4. 4
    Zifnab says:

    Ok, I’m sorry, but did you hear Hillary Clinton laugh when she was questioned by Kucinich(?) That bitch is EVIL!

    Seriously, though. Clinton is the most practical of the bunch, with the exception, perhaps, of Richardson. The fact that she constantly refers to her winning the White House as a forgone conclusion tickles me. I still think Obama has the numbers to give Clinton a run for her money. And I still think Edwards has the ability to make the early plays in NH and Iowa, pulling a Howard Dean-style take-off. But, as it stands, you’re right. Obama just doesn’t look like he’s ready for Prime Time. And if Edwards did take off, he’d just pull a Howard Dean face-plant a primary later.

    The rest of the candidates aren’t honest contenders, but they are doing an excellent job of keeping the Big 3 honest. Nothing like Dodd to play the voice of reason. If this was any other election but this election, I’d big a big Dodd supporter too.

  5. 5
    wasabi gasp says:

    Vote Republican!

    There is so much shit yet to fuck up.

  6. 6
    ThymeZone says:

    7.) Nothing is going to stop Hillary.

    Agree. I, for one, welcome our bitchy lesbian manhating overlords.

    j/k

    (or am I?)

  7. 7
    Punchy says:

    Hillary wins the primary, grabs Obama as her running mate. Jungle fever comments burst out of Powerlie and Rudestate on a daily basis. Sales of white pillowcases and scissors soar in MS and ‘Bama. We’ll see terms like “Over the Hill-ary”, and “She’ll be P’illoried” and “Hillary-O(?)ama ’08” on FoxNews. Everything including cracks in sidewalks and antibiotic resistant bacteria will be suddenly traced back and blamed on Bill Clinton. The location and occupation of Lewinsky will be nightly fodder.

    And Clinton-Obs will take 58% of the vote and 340+ electoral votes. Rout.

  8. 8
    ThymeZone says:

    And Clinton-Obs will take 58% of the vote and 340+ electoral votes. Rout.

    Hopefully, yes. But somewhere in cablehell yesterday, Matthews I think, they were talking about the GOP “strategy” of fluffing up Hillary, hoping for a blowback reduction in lost GOP seats next year, and big blowback of regained seats in 2010. In other words, they are conceding the White House as a way to try to get back seats on the Hill.

    Thoughts?

  9. 9
    Billy K says:

    7.) Nothing is going to stop Hillary.

    God, I hope you’re wrong.

  10. 10
    LITBMueller says:

    I was struck by the complete unwillingness of the top 3 contenders to say “Yes, I WILL get our young men and women out of the Bush fiasco that is Iraq within the 1st year of my presidency.” I wasn’t struck because that they think that way. I was just struck that they aren’t playing the antiwar base more, because in this primary, those voters will make or break you. Iraq is the issue that creates the most passion.

    I’m definitely NOT struck by the fact that the top 3 are perfectly willing to keep our troops in Iraq. Anyone thinking that whoever succeeds Bush will end our foreign entanglements, restore habeus corpus, respect Constitutional balance, roll back domestic spying, fix FISA, or bring back fiscal responsibility are just dreaming.

    The cat’s out of the bag…

  11. 11
    Billy K says:

    Hopefully, yes. But somewhere in cablehell yesterday, Matthews I think, they were talking about the GOP “strategy” of fluffing up Hillary, hoping for a blowback reduction in lost GOP seats next year, and big blowback of regained seats in 2010. In other words, they are conceding the White House as a way to try to get back seats on the Hill.

    I think the only thing now that can save the GOP for the next 3 generations is a disastrous Clinton Presidency. And let’s be honest here – chances are very good it’d be disatrous. She’s not “Progressive” enough for Moonbats, she’s 180-degrees opposed to Libertarian doctrine, and of course the Right is gonna invent a wholly new category of hatred for her.

    Nobody wins. The Right sabotages her term, Democrats don’t back her, the failure proves that Democrats aren’t “for real” and the scumbag, money-grubbing, bedroom-snooping, war forever GOP is back in the game.

    At least that’s what worries me…

  12. 12
    John S. says:

    I’m really starting to like Dodd, too. He is actually the candidate most in touch with the base as far as what he says and how he votes. I mean, he was one of the only candidates up there willing to commit to a full pullout of Iraq by 2013.

    Unfortunately, somewhere in the great Beltway collective mind, they have decided that he isn’t a ‘serious’ candidate (even though somehow McCain is).

  13. 13
    ThymeZone says:

    The cat’s out of the bag…

    It’s a complex set of political dynamics right now. You have the country in thirds: KoolAid Kids, Muddle of the Roaders, and Lefties.

    You also have the primary vs. general election dynamics. Things that can Pomp.You.Up in the primary can kill you in the general.

    You are watching a big game of chicken on both sides of the aisle these days, and to my reckoning, the Clinton machine is the grand master at this game. Remember, Clinton is the guy who stood up to the impeachment, and said Fuck You. And scored big. And he is now Political Advisor Number One. The guy could have been elected to a third term. And I wish he had been.

  14. 14
    Zifnab says:

    In other words, they are conceding the White House as a way to try to get back seats on the Hill.

    Thoughts?

    Yeah, this sounds like a brilliant strategy. “We’ll cede them the forts, the treasury, the troops, and the high ground. And then we strike!”

    Republicans are operating under the assumption that everyone still hates the Democrats as much as they do, and it’ll keep costing them so long as they continue to believe they have any credibility. I’m loathe to say this – for so many reasons – but Gingrich has taken the only viable Republican stance. Assume contrition. Rechant your evil ways (in name, at least). Distance yourself from the President and his policies. And start over as the reform party underdogs.

    Few of the Republicans want to take that stand, however, because we’re in a life-or-death struggle against the forces of Islamofascinistaliberalcommiehealthcarestremism.

  15. 15
    rawshark says:

    I think the only thing now that can save the GOP for the next 3 generations is a disastrous Clinton Presidency.

    The right wing noise machine will make sure that no matter what happens, a disastorous Clinton presidency is exactly what some people will think is reality. You know what I mean even if I wrote it like that.

  16. 16
    craigie says:

    If the Dems nominate a cheese sandwich, and the GOP nominates Jesus, I’ll be voting for the snack. But saying that, I regard hillary more and more as just GWB-lite. We need a revolution in this country, and she’s the very last person who’s going to give it to us.

  17. 17
    Punchy says:

    Thoughts?

    I don’t see this. I think this country has been so tramatized by Republican tyranny (has the “color thing” been changed even ONCE since Bush was re-elected??) that it will not take long for Americans to realize what they SHOULD have had in ’04. They will welcome the Dems and their sane policies. Blowback? No way. The R’s have SO fucked up their party that they’re gone for a long while.

    Remember, even after the Dems own the gov’t, all the investigations into the last 12 years of R rule continue. They’ll be grand-jurying Rs for years down the road.

  18. 18
    kchiker says:

    I REALLY like Dodd.

    But damn, would it make my day for Gore to just watch up to the podium during one of these debates, bitch-slap Kucinich out of the way and announce ‘OK…let’s face it –if these candidates emptied out their pockets they still could not make the change. I am THE experience and THE change.’

  19. 19
    cleek says:

    The right wing noise machine will make sure that no matter what happens

    exactly. look for a widespread outbreak of Hillary Derangement Syndrome.

    or, maybe the sheer outrage overload will cause the Noise Machine to overheat and seize up.

  20. 20
    John S. says:

    I REALLY like Dodd.

    It seems to me that from reading several progressive blogs that Dodd is a favorite of a LOT of people.

    If that is so (and I realize blogoers aren’t representative of the general population), then why isn’t Dodd considered a viable candidate? Is it simply a matter of the MSM not labeling him as a ‘front-runner’ or does he just not resonate with the general public, and if so, why not?

  21. 21
    John Cole says:

    I can not stand Hillary. Yo may call it an irrational loathing, but when I have been ranting and raving over the past few years about the Republican oversteps and executive powergrabs, I consistently said to Republicans, hoping they would come to their senses, “Think about what president Hilary Clinton would do with this.”

    When I look at Hillary, I see someone who is more than willing to throw aside principles to accomplish something SHE thinks is what the nation needs. I don’t think she is as bad as the folks in the WH, but I do think she will do whatever is convenient to achieve her goals. The only thing that is different is that right now, her goals are not as bad as the goals of this administration.

    Dodd really is the best candidate. I will not vote for a Republican in 2008, no matter who the Democratic candidate is. That does not mean I will vote for Hillary- I simply do not think I could pull the lever for her right now, particularly since I think she is more than willing o capitulate and roll with the status quo- as long as it is helping her. And before we forget, let’s note that most of the stuff in the patriot Act was stuff suggested by the FIRST Clinton administration yet rejected by Republicans when they were a touch more sane (though not completely sane).

    I don’t see Hillary overturning the abuses, I don’t see her setting things right, and I see a bunch more years of pointless acrimony while those with money and power continue to do whatever the fuck they want.

  22. 22
    whippoorwill says:

    7.) Nothing is going to stop Hillary.

    I’d been trying not to think of the real prospect of voting for Hillary in the general election, but after her performance on Fox News Sunday, I may not have to hold my nose and vote for her. The look on Chris Wallace’s face after Hillary’s belly-laugh at his first stupid question was just priceless. He looked like a little boy who just got his lolly-pop stole by a little girl. Even Brit Hume got a kick out of it. She just doesn’t appear like the cold hearted shrew she once did.

  23. 23
    Billy K says:

    “Think about what president Hilary Clinton would do with this.”

    I can’t believe this thought doesn’t stop them – or at least slow down their Presidential power grab. I think these people truly believe they have a lock on the Presidency. It’s the only thing that explains their behavior. They are certified mental. Then again, they DO have The Math…

    I see someone who is more than willing to throw aside principles to accomplish something SHE thinks is what the nation needs.

    I know this is shallow htinking, but if she were to throw aside her principles in order to 1) get us out of Iraq, 2) Balance the budget and pay down our debt, and 3) fix health care…well I wouldn’t give a damn.

  24. 24
    capelza says:

    Trying to destroy a Clinton presidency has been tried before.

    Not that I’m big Hillary fan, but between her and her husband they have survived murder accusations and a fucking impeachment. I wouldn’t write them off too quickly. Bill will be front and center, as First Gentleman, First Dawg whatever…some people I kno wwil vote for Hillary, just to get Bill back in the WH. And one of them is a Republican! The past 7 years have really put the shine to the Clinton era.

    The people I’m talking about are not internet denizans. Outside the tubes, people are pretty miserable. And some really hate Hillary, but not as many as before.

    That Chris Wallace thing was fantastic…I’ve never heard her laugh before.

    And whoever, especially Rudi, tries to drag Lewinsky into this will be reminded that they are attacking the wrong person. Mrs. Clinton stayed in her marriage. Rudi, not so much.

    I like Dodd, too.

  25. 25
    jenniebee says:

    When I look at Hillary, I see someone who is more than willing to throw aside principles to accomplish something SHE thinks is what the nation needs. I don’t think she is as bad as the folks in the WH, but I do think she will do whatever is convenient to achieve her goals.

    Well, shoot – I’d like to pull the lever for somebody who’s shown that they think deeply about government in general and democracy in particular, and who eschews jingoism and other kinds of mindless responses to complex questions, and who has studied ethics and understands that a democratic society that does not strive towards equality of opportunity for all its citizens is a de facto plutocracy any way you cut it, and who values and prioritizes the preservation of democratic principles above all others of America’s Great Causes.

    I’d like to vote for that person, but Al Gore isn’t running this year. Besides, he’s fat.

  26. 26
    "Fair and Balanced" Dave says:

    Count me among the Dodd supporters.
    1. He voted against the stupid Rethug MoveOn ad resolution.
    2. He voted against the (IMO) dangerous Leiberman/Kyl Amendment which the Bushites may yet use as a pretext to attack Iran.
    3. He bitchslapped Bill O’Reilly in an interview during Yearly Kos

    One final thought, as a debate moderator Tim Russert sucks only slightly less than Wolf Blitzer.

  27. 27
    Punchy says:

    I think she is more than willing o capitulate and roll with the status quo- as long as it is helping her.

    You’re completely ignoring the insane popularity of her husband. There have never been a more influential First Spouse in the history of the US, as he alone would be a de-facto SecState. Other leaders still love and respect him. President Hillary could get so much foreign policy accomplished simply by sending him overseas.

    Nobody else, especially a R, could regain the repect of the US as quickly or as genuinely.

  28. 28
    Wilfred says:

    Nobody else, especially a R, could regain the repect of the US as quickly or as genuinely.

    Right. All he has to do is visit the Iraqi refugee camps and everybody will love America again.

    The US has lost more than respect, it’s lost the mystique that came with having at least a remnant of moral authority. It’s just a colonial power these days, one that can re-write Blackwater contracts but can’t let the Iraqis prosecute its employees for murder.

    We pissed in too many faces to ever go back. Stop dreaming about it.

  29. 29

    I think these people truly believe they have a lock on the Presidency.

    The other morning I caught Bill Kristol on Dr. Bill’s show and they are both confident that the Reps will retain the presidency. Kistol was all ‘look at the field of candidates, successful mayor, one of the most successful businessmen in the country, war hero, and Thompson’s successful at whatever he’s doing. It’s in the bag!’

    It was stunning to listen to.

    As far as the Dems go, I split my money and time between Edwards and Richardson. Some days one says/does something that makes me hopeful and then other days one or the other makes me say “what were you thinking?”

  30. 30
    Jake says:

    The right wing noise machine will make sure that no matter what happens, a disastorous Clinton presidency is exactly what some people will think is reality.

    Even if they have to keep blaming the first one.

  31. 31
    Jackmormon says:

    How good is Dodd on foreign policy?

  32. 32
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Nothing is going to stop Hillary.

    From getting the Dem nomination? Looks like it.

    From winning the White House? I think the not-insubstantial amount of blistering Hillary Hatred could derail the victory train. Which would mean another Gooper president. Which would suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

  33. 33
    "Fair and Balanced" Dave says:

    I think the not-insubstantial amount of blistering Hillary Hatred could derail the victory train.

    Right now I think people in the country hate George W. Bush a lot more than Hillary. No matter who gets the GOP nomination, the disaster that is the George W. Bush Presidency will be hung around his neck.

  34. 34
    Teak111 says:

    Be very intersting to see the Swiftboat action on Hillary starting next year. For my wind, there has to be backlash from the general public for Swiftboating candidates and I imagine we will see it. As I understand, the Hillary Haters have it worse then BDS.

  35. 35

    From winning the White House? I think the not-insubstantial amount of blistering Hillary Hatred could derail the victory train. Which would mean another Gooper president. Which would suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

    Maybe if the Republicans had a candidate that wasn’t well known as a nutcase. But that’s just not the case.

  36. 36
    whippoorwill says:

    will not vote for a Republican in 2008, no matter who the Democratic candidate is. That does not mean I will vote for Hillary-

    Well John, that gives we moonbats about a year to fully corrupt you and finish the deprogramming process. Resistance is futile!

  37. 37
    Rick Taylor says:

    When I look at Hillary, I see someone who is more than willing to throw aside principles to accomplish something SHE thinks is what the nation needs. I don’t think she is as bad as the folks in the WH, but I do think she will do whatever is convenient to achieve her goals. The only thing that is different is that right now, her goals are not as bad as the goals of this administration.

    I’m not voting for Hillary in the primaries, but one thing I’ll say for her is after years of being on the receiving end of the Republican slime machine, she knows how to fight. I liked both Gore and Kerry, but both of them were caught flat footed when the attacks came in. If Republicans’ are unhappy at Democrats choosing an ambitious Machiavellian power hungry schemer, well, maybe they shouldn’t have set up things so that such a candidate had the best chance to win. And I do really want to win this election, especially if Giuliani turns out to be the nominee. Giuliani is perhaps the only candidate that I think might make me look back fondly on the Bush presidency if elected. I would vote for any Democrat if Giuliani is running against them. And almost any Republican.

  38. 38
    Pug says:

    (has the “color thing” been changed even ONCE since Bush was re-elected??)

    You know, I hadn’t even thought about the old threat level color, or whatever the hell it was called, but you’re right. Now that I think of it, it has not only not been changed but I don’t think it has even been mentioned since the 2004 election. Strange that.

    I’m afraid so many Dems would love to vote for ole Bill they’ll make the mistake of voting for Hillary. She loses another close election to the GOP because just over half the country won’t vote for her. Period.

    Way too many of us who want to vote for the Democrat feel exactly like John Cole. Won’t vote for a Republican but might find it physically impossible to punch Hillary’s name.

  39. 39
    Teak111 says:

    Exactly, if Hitlery becomes president, the right will stop at nothing to drill her into the ground. It will be ugly, ugly. Hope she is one tough bastard, thinkin she is.

  40. 40
    kchiker says:

    One thing you have to hand to Hillary. When the Repugs go after her, she’s going to hit back. And hard. And she’ll be laughing. And so will I.

  41. 41
    teak111 says:

    “ambitious Machiavellian power hungry schemer”

    Excellent point, current political climate has “evolved” this type of candidate.
    Hitlery certainly has the needed skills to counter the attack machine.

    …This is the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny, good guys bad guys and explosions as far as the eye can see….who win and survive I wonder who it will be, the utlimate destiny…

  42. 42
    D-Chance. says:

    The big winner last night was Bill Clinton on Anderson Cooper’s 360 program. Another excellent interview performance where he laid the the leather to the GOP over the MoveOn issue. If Hillary doesn’t go bat-shit crazy and lays low, her future First Gentleman (why First Husband when it’s not First Wife?) will carry her to the House.

  43. 43

    Does anyone else think that she pulls a fast one, and nominates Bill as her VP?

    …might just sweeten the pot. LOL

  44. 44
    Tax Analyst says:

    Wilfred Says:

    Nobody else, especially a R, could regain the repect of the US as quickly or as genuinely.

    Right. All he has to do is visit the Iraqi refugee camps and everybody will love America again.

    Going OT but speaking of refugee camps, I noticed that Paris Hilton has announced her intention to visit Rwanda to highlight the plight of the children there after she finishes her upcoming movie role. I’m figuring with the continued dumbing down of the American Voting Public, avoiding future adventures involving Law Enforcement and several years of honest attempts at Humanitarian Conduct Ms. Hilton would be just about right for a Presidential run when she passes the requisite age of 35. Dumbness wouldn’t seem to be a problem…I’m not so sure she couldn’t hold her own against someone like Dubyah if she could get past the pictures and read the words in some books. She’d only be 34 by 2016, so mark your calenders for 2020. “President Paris – Peace is HOT!”.

    Could it be any more frightening, frivolous or ridiculous than the current Republican Party?

    Trying to get serious for just a moment, Hillary might not be everyone’s (or maybe anyone’s) “First Choice”, but perhaps that will serve as a tonic dose of realism in some ways. Some kids once said, “You can’t always get what you want…but if you try sometimes, you get what you need”. Of course, they are just a bunch of old farts now. Anyway, I don’t see “Hitlery” when I listen to her, I see someone who has taken the time and effort to learn the issues and is trying to be pragmatic about them. I read a lot of criticism of her that she is “too calculating”. I’ve said before that if the “calculating” is in the service of improving the overall lot of the folks in this country I’ve got no problem with it…if it’s simply for personal political positioning or gain that’s a different story. But right now we’ve got “calculating” morons running this ship and they’re running it right into the fucking ground. Anybody who can’t see the difference needs to pull their head out of their ass. Additionally, it IS good and gratifying to see a Democrat willing to push back and push back HARD against slimey and phoney-assed accusations and innuendo…I just couldn’t bear another Gore, Kerry spectacle of “above-it-all” wimpishness in the ’08 Election. I don’t advocate sinking to the level of the Refuglicans, but I want my candidate to defend themselves with as much vigor and righteous anger as they can honestly muster up when they are confronted with the inevitably outrageous and out-of-proportion shit-throwing of the RW Noise/Swift Boater’s crowd. I’m pretty sure Hillary is prepared to do this and I think a little display of backbone could go a long way this time around.

    But what do I know??

  45. 45
    laneman says:

    Obscure book reference Scar Night written by Alan Cambell (who was one of the genitors of theGrand Theft Auto series) has a an evil crazed character (an angel) that needs a sould every scar night to live and fights like a demon.

    This is how I think hillary will respond to attacks on her.

  46. 46
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Does anyone else think that she pulls a fast one, and nominates Bill as her VP?

    …might just sweeten the pot. LOL

    Plus, it would make wingers go absolutely apeshit, which would be fantastic.

  47. 47
    Krista says:

    I like “First Dawg”. :) That would suit Bill to a “t”.

  48. 48
    PeterJ says:

    “Think about what president Hilary Clinton would do with this.”

    With the powers given to the president during Bush II, Clinton II will now be able to send Clinton I to Gitmo.

    Payback’s a bitch.

    I like Dodd too btw.

  49. 49
    Stooleo says:

    Trying to get serious for just a moment, Hillary might not be everyone’s (or maybe anyone’s) “First Choice”,

    Certainly not my first choice, but what really bothers me is having Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton, for 4 consecutive administrations. And what really nailed it home for me was after the debate listening to Mathews and Russert talk. Paraphrasing here, so Mathews tells Russert that there is no way Edwards can go the distance, because the “Washington Insiders” (read Democratic Comittee) don’t like him, and Russert agrees.

    What pisses me off about this is, I don’t the idea idea that a candidate is doomed without the blessing of the Washington elite, and pricks like Mathews and Russert accepting this load as common knowledge. I’m probably being naive (yes), but I thought this was a national election, not a popularity contest conducted by the elite denizens of D.C. So to get back to my original point, Hillary getting elected just perpetuates this same group of elites. I would really like to see somebody new come into town and clean house.

  50. 50
    John S. says:

    So, from looking at this thread, a lot of people do seem to like Dodd.

    If that is the case, then why the fuck is Dodd not considered a viable candidate?

    I am totally perplexed.

  51. 51
    Brian says:

    But damn, would it make my day for Gore to just watch up to the podium during one of these debates, bitch-slap Kucinich out of the way and announce ‘OK…let’s face it—if these candidates emptied out their pockets they still could not make the change. I am THE experience and THE change.

    So, you see Gore as the Pinhead from Hellraiser Candidate? (LOL). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEUzsEof9Kk

  52. 52
    Wilfred says:

    If that is the case, then why the fuck is Dodd not considered a viable candidate?

    Because the fix is in. Clinton will get elected and become like LBJ: “They let me have the Great Society in exchange for Vietnam”. Clinton will get universal health care, protect Roe vs Wade and bring back multiculturalism while the Christian Zionists pave the Middle East with incinerated Muslims – then both sides are happy.

    Look at her recent votes and read her speech to Aipac.

  53. 53
    John S. says:

    Because the fix is in.

    I guess that really is what it boils down to.

    The dittoheads of the MSM all dismiss Dodd because they are too busy getting breathless over reliving the potential scandals of the Clinton years. Meanwhile, John McCain has no cash on hand, his campaign is in constant disarray, but he’s making a comeback!

    I really despise our media.

  54. 54
    ThymeZone says:

    why the fuck is Dodd not considered a viable candidate?

    Viability is measured in dollars and poll numbers.

    Of course, Dodd himself says …

    U.S. Sen. Chris Dodd said low poll numbers and fundraising figures have not derailed his presidential campaign.

    So, you can believe what you like!

  55. 55
    Cain says:

    Does anyone else think that she pulls a fast one, and nominates Bill as her VP?

    I was thinking about that too. In fact it makes a lot of sense. He’ll make a pretty good VP or a Secretary of State.

    sri

  56. 56
    Cain says:

    I’m very sad to hear that John thinks Kucinich has no chance. Our country needs to come together and having a hot first lady is one of those ways.

    cain

  57. 57
    capelza says:

    Cain, speaking for 50% of the country, having a hot first lady isn’t a big priority for me.

    Bill Clinton in some foreign policy job in his wife’s administration? The planet would thank us. They might actually start listening to us again, without that “oh fuck, what are the Americans going to pull next” feeling.

  58. 58
    Wilfred says:

    keeping up with Blackwater, here’s an immensely interesting and timely report:
    http://www3.brookings.edu/fp/r.....200709.pdf

    The executive summary is damning in itslef.

  59. 59
    Ted says:

    Yo may call it an irrational loathing, but when I have been ranting and raving over the past few years about the Republican oversteps and executive powergrabs, I consistently said to Republicans, hoping they would come to their senses, “Think about what president Hilary Clinton would do with this.”

    And the typical responses you’ve been getting from these Republicans to this question are? I’m quite curious how they respond to this, or if they just consider a Democrat winning the WH to be an impossibility now.

  60. 60
    Soliton says:

    All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptable. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted. -Frank Herbert

    I can envision a day when you will have to have proof of health insurance to get a job. -Hillary Clinton

    Does anyone *really* believe that Hillary is going to “fix” the health care system?

    If so, then I have a bridge to nowhere in Alaska that I can let you have cheap.

  61. 61
    Tax Analyst says:

    I would really like to see somebody new come into town and clean house.

    “New” can be good if “competent” and “able” are accurate descriptions that are part of the candidate’s make-up. It can also be shit if they are not. Now I haven’t said that Hillary is my first choice, but she’s certainly acceptable to me, especially when matched up against any Republican candidate. I would have to question anyone who wants to toss their vote to a third-party choice if they would be satisfied if the votes going to that third choice ended up being a factor and resulted in one of the Republican candidates taking the oath of office in January,2009. As far as a Hillary Clinton presidency can be considered I think fears that she would be act in a dictatorial fashion are overblown. She has worked and played well with Republicans while serving in the Senate and generally steered a centrist path…albeit a bit more centrist than I would personally have preferred. I wouldn’t say she’s my first choice, and I’m not thrilled that she expects we will need to have a presence in Iraq but I’m not sure anyone entering office in 2009 is going to be able to extract us any quicker or better. The idea of just pulling up lock, stock and barrel on Inauguration Day is certainly very appealing, but it’s just not going to happen. That said, there is an urgent and critical need for some measure of competency and an ability to process information logically and intelligently…if someone can supply that perhaps we’ll come out of this miserable, sick tragedy at least somewhat less damaged than the current game of pointless “whack-a-mole” is likely to deliver.

    God, I’m so disgusted with that mindless, corrupt, incompetent, nasty little piece of snot that currently occupies the White House.

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    Tax Analyst says:

    Soliton Says: Does anyone really believe that Hillary is going to “fix” the health care system?

    Well, fair enough…I don’t think ANYONE can “fix” our current Health Care System during a term in the White House. The question then becomes, “Is the present system satisfactory in addressing the health needs of this country’s citizens?” If not, then folks have to come up with ideas that WILL do a better job. You want it “FIXED”? Christ, do you know just HOW fucked up it really is right now? Would you believe me if I told you I don’t think anybody out there has a “Magic Bullet” to “Fix” American Health Care? So we need ideas and we need a full and honest debate on those ideas and anyone who puts forth a legitimate plan built on feasible concepts deserves to have their ideas considered. Can we expect an “honest debate” on those terms? Right now I’m not encouraged, but maybe the 2008 Elections will force a few hands and heads to at least honestly try. If we’ve gotten to the point where it’s all about partisan control for one side or the other and the opposition will not earnestly work for fair compromise they we should just throw our cards in and settle for a constant erosion of our Freedoms and the opportunity to rise above however humble our original situation might have been.

    I still think there are at least a few people wandering around Congress & the Senate who give a flying fuck about the future, but I’ll admit it’s damned hard to tell exactly who they might be sometimes. I really don’t think there are too many with “R” after their names, though.

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    I’m still not into the ’08 campaign, but would like Dodd or Richardson to both move up.

    Ms Clinton is just more of Bush although much more sane. Still, she’ll end up killing many more Americans.

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    jake says:

    Since this is an OT, I’m pleased to report Afghani opium farmers are turning to alternative crops.

    Progress!

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    Cain says:

    Cain, speaking for 50% of the country, having a hot first lady isn’t a big priority for me

    While my post was somewhat tongue in cheek there is a bit a truth to that. If you recall JFK’s wife, Jackie really made JFK look good and she received a lot of attention during his presidency (and continued to even after his death)

    cain

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    Beej says:

    Will someone please explain to me where all this Hillary hatred comes from? The woman is not only extremely intelligent (already a welcome change from the current occupant of the White House), but she is politically and diplomatically savvy and very knowledgable about both foreign and domestic policy issues. Both Clintons have been described as “policy wonks” and I doubt that has changed much. She’s calculating? Well, my God, let’s boil her in oil! Was there ever anyone more calculating than, say, FDR? Try reading a bio or 2 about him. She’s power hungry? Nobody runs for President of the United States unless they like power and think they know how to use it. She’s cold? Sharply analytical people often appear that way, and women of Hillary’s(and my) generation often learned to wear a blank, “strictly business” face for every occasion in the workplace. We knew that virtually any show of emotion would prompt talk that “women are just too emotional” to rise in the organization. After some of the experiences Hillary had in Arkansas and in Washington, I imagine that “strictly business” look and attitude seemed a lot safer than letting anyone see the real person. I think it speaks volumes that she has been able to overcome that and even laugh out loud at the likes of Chris Wallace and answer Russert’s question about torture-as-policy the way she did last night.

    This is turning into a long post, but the carping about Hillary reminds me of one of my law professors. At the time I was in law school, she was the only female professor on the law faculty. She had a lot of “high negatives” with both male and female law students. She was arrogant. She was cold and demanding. She was condescending. She was driven. You get the idea. The thing was, most of the male professors had exactly the same qualities! The difference was that they were MALE. We expect and applaud many of those qualities in men. We criticize them in women.

    Isn’t there at least a touch of this in the Hillary hatred that seems so prevalent? I would prefer to vote for a different Democratic candidate simply because I’ve had my fill of the dynastic presidency. But if Obama can’t show me he has the chops in hard, specific policy, I’m probably going to vote for Hillary because she has the brains and the experience to get at least a few things done.

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    7) you all need to stop for a second and do the math, Hillary polling in the upper 30s doesn’t make a nomination. Those numbers won’t get it. There will be delegates committed to any candidate above the delegate threshold vote and the candidate tells them what to do with their vote. If you’ve got H -35, O – 30, E – 25, etc – 10, you’ve got some horse trading going on, and H isn’t necessarily the winner in that scenario. Those numbers are 9/07 guesses, but there’s way too much inevitability talk. There are all kinds of outcomes possible, but nobody (MSM) talks about it, I wonder why…

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    Johnny Pez says:

    Does anyone else think that she pulls a fast one, and nominates Bill as her VP?

    Pretty sure that would be unconstitutional. If you’re not eligible to be president, then you’re not eligible to be VP.

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