“What a fucking disgrace this man and his journalistic lackeys are”

Sullivan’s reaction to the news that K-Lo and company went to a private briefing with the Deciderer, where they learned that “the president’s view the attack on Petraeus as ‘an attack on men and women in uniform.'”

I used to subscribe to the National Review. Can I get a retroactive refund? Hacks.

94 replies
  1. 1
    Gold Star for Robot Boy says:

    One of many reasons I enjoy reading Sully is his civility. (No offense, John.)
    So to see cursing was quite a shock.
    I imagine all of us, no matter how civil, have been overcome a time or two by the same rage.

  2. 2
    Andrew says:

    But… Hillary! See, I can freeze Sullivan in his tracks.

  3. 3
    Rick Taylor says:

    Still think the MovOn org was uncalled for, John? I remember reading Digby when it came out saying it was “absolutely necessary.” I didn’t get it then, but I’m beginning to now. Someone had to cut through the incredible bull, and polite words weren’t going to do it.

  4. 4
    Rick Taylor says:

    Whoops, sorry, the link in my last post is broken. Let’s try again. There.

  5. 5
    Gold Star for Robot Boy says:

    But… Hillary! See, I can freeze Sullivan in his tracks.

    I wish Sully would get past that.

  6. 6
    Wilfred says:

    There was a lot of ground covered, and the president was in a serious but confident mood — clearly sending the message that this administration is not close to over

    That’s right, this administration is way past over. Now the NRO has jumped the shark, too, although buffoonish hero worship of this self-promoting gasbag is par for the conservative course, witness MacArthur and Luce. The next thing will be to elevate Petraeus to symbolic representation of Homelandia itself. 1/20/09

  7. 7
    LITBMueller says:

    Leave General Petraeus ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!! He’s got medals on his chest…He’s done stuff! And you don’t care!!!

  8. 8
    Dreggas says:

    Gold Star for Robot Boy Says:

    One of many reasons I enjoy reading Sully is his civility. (No offense, John.)
    So to see cursing was quite a shock.
    I imagine all of us, no matter how civil, have been overcome a time or two by the same rage.

    I second that, it was quite a shock to see someone usually very calm go off. Then again it’s about fucking time Andy!

  9. 9
    whippoorwill says:

    I guess when you’ve been locked into a 30 % approval for more than a year right wing hack journalists are all you have, that and cowering behind the troops. Pathetic and scary at the same time.

  10. 10
    VidaLoca says:

    Sullivan:

    Excuse my language. But I can’t take this any longer. We’re at war; and he’s still playing Rove’s game.

    … still doesn’t get that war is Rove’s game, and the only game Bush has left.

    Still a day late and a dollar short.

  11. 11
    qwerty42 says:

    Sully has posted a followup that goes further into his thoughts on this.

  12. 12
    Brian says:

    If we are “At War” why did Sully never call for a “Declaration of War” as required by the Consitution?

  13. 13
    alphie says:

    This will cost the Republicans votes next November, so who cares?

  14. 14
    Gold Star for Robot Boy says:

    From Sully’s update:

    We can pray that somehow, out of this dark, long tunnel, something might be salvaged. But even if it is, it will never detract from the fact that this administration made the most colossal intelligence mistake since Pearl Harbor, ended two centuries of moral leadership by the United States on the treatment of prisoners of war, sunk what may soon be more than a trillion dollars into creating anarchy in a region where vital interests are at stake, and cost the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent men, women and children in an occupation of such fathomless negligence it is close to a war crime in itself.

    And that’s just what Bush did in Iraq.
    Domestically, I’ll never forgive this administration for playing post-9/11 idealists as suckers.

  15. 15
    Tsulagi says:

    “What a fucking disgrace this man and his journalistic lackeys are”

    In related news, planet Earth circles the Sun, not Jesus.

    So our Decider Man is now mad? Ooooo, bet the air quality in the Oval Office is really going to suffer now along with his aides.

    The guy is a fucking joke. Bush pimps Petraeus to be his surrogate. The admin has him do a shitload of streetwalking on the Hill outside of hearings and on the Fox Fluffer channel. Why? Because the overwhelming general consensus is that The Pimp is either A) A Liar, B) Too Retarded, or correct answer, C) Both. No one on either side of the aisle wants to think of Bush in charge of the adventure in nation building called OIF.

    So yeah, you can see why he might pout about the “Betrayus” thing. In his mind he’s Petraeus, a warrior winning the war single handed. Unless it doesn’t go well, then he’ll make it clear he isn’t Petraeus. He’s a decisive decider like that.

  16. 16
    Jake says:

    the president’s view the attack on Petraeus as ‘an attack on men and women in uniform.’”

    Right. The same President who doesn’t like the idea of giving the soldiers an extra .5% pay raise or letting them come home before they’re wounded.

    He must have an extra set of men and women in uniform squirreled away some where because he sure as hell isn’t doing squat for the ones I see.

    I wish I could say that his use of the word “attack,” didn’t worry me but who knows what this crazy mother fucker might do? Never mind Iraq (and Saudi Arabia) we’ve got to go after those Libruls who keep attacking our soldiers.

  17. 17
    Rick Taylor says:

    And I keep repeating this, but the Swift Boaters didn’t just call Kerry a nasty name; they smeared his service, even going so far as to imply his war wounds were self-inflicted. So his hypocrisy hear is had to take, or would be if by now it wasn’t just par for the course.

    “The attacks on him by MoveOn.org in ad space provided at subsidized rates in The New York Times last week were an outrage.”
    — Cheney

    “It’s disgraceful, it’s got to be retracted and condemned by the Democrats, and MoveOn.org ought to be thrown out of this country.”
    — McCain (later amended to say he meant such remarks have no place in the debate)

    “And I frankly don’t understand why Hillary Clinton hasn’t repudiated MoveOn.org at this point. And I’m afraid the truth is that MoveOn.org has purchased the Democratic Party, if you will. That it’s funding, and the status of this 527, and the voice it has in the Democratic Party is so powerful that it’s now calling the shots. And that Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama and John Edwards are afraid to repudiate an ad and an organization which has taken a disgusting course against a great American.”
    –Mitt Romney

    “What I don’t think should happen in political discourse is the kind of character assassination that MoveOn.org participated in in calling him General Betray Us, that The New York Times gave them a discount to do and that Hillary Clinton followed up on with an attack on his integrity.”
    –Rudy Giuliani

    The Hill:
    Rep. Tom Davis (R-Va.) asked committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) Tuesday to convene a hearing on the issue, saying that any rate change “for political advertising could constitute an unlawful campaign contribution.”

    (If only Repubican’s had been as committed to oversight of the administration as they are of an ad in the New York times, maybe things would be better in Iraq)

    What’s scary is I’m not cherry picking crazy quotes from zany right wing web sites. These are the front runners in the race for the Republican nominaion for President (and the current Presidend and Vice President). The party has been taken over by the nuts.

  18. 18

    Wow, back in 2003 when I was supporting General Clark for the nomination, we were all preparing for the eventuality he got the nominee and had to endure the Republican onslaught on his military record. So we were collecting articles and other information as part of a rapid response database.

    What was curious was that most of the material the right-wing had up to that point, had come from Communist propaganda around the time of Kosovo. But they were using it, they didn’t care the source.

    I expect when General Petraeus writes his book about how inept Bush was, the right-wing will be using this moveon.org ad to attack him.

  19. 19
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    the president’s view the attack on Petraeus as ‘an attack on men and women in uniform.

    Wait, the troops–you know, the people who started the whole “Betray Us” thing–hate the troops?

    Well, I guess if you’re a wingnut, circular logic is just par for the course.

  20. 20
    Rick Taylor says:

    Ack, sorry, I forgot to add to the first paragraph of the last post, Bush was unwilling to condemn the Swift Boaters, to his position of condeming Democrats now is hard to take.

  21. 21
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    Sounds like CinderSully’s just mad that his invitation to the ball got “lost in the mail.” Oh my lawwwd, the Prez took an hour to talk to bloggers — the horror! Get Sully his fainting hanky!

  22. 22
    Z says:

    No EEEL-

    The prez took some time, that he should have been spending trying to figure out how to get out of the many messes his pathetic presidency has made, to make sure those worshipful bloggers know the right things to say to his base. All he cares about (or has ever cared about) is how his policies LOOK to his base. Whether his policies are effective? Not so important to the man.

  23. 23
    Evilbeard says:

    EEEL = Daryl?

  24. 24
    Rick Taylor says:

    I see the same thing with Sulivan I see with John. He woke up recently enough that the outrage and horror is still fresh.

  25. 25
    Face says:

    In related news, planet Earth circles the Sun, not Jesus.

    /blinks thrice in disbelief, consults Bible, pounds table

  26. 26
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    What’s scary is I’m not cherry picking crazy quotes from zany right wing web sites… The party has been taken over by the nuts.

    Please. None of the GOP’s reaction to the MoveOn ad (save McCain’s “throw them out of the country”) is half as nutty as Hypocrite Hillary telling Obama to give back David Geffen’s money because he called her and Bill mean names. I mean, what game does she think she’s playing?

  27. 27
    ThymeZone says:

    Well, yes, NR is a GOP house organ, has been for a very long time.

    I mean, what game does she think she’s playing?

    “Watch me move back into the White House, and Kiss My Entire Ass.”

  28. 28
    Evilbeard says:

    Please. None of the GOP’s reaction to the MoveOn ad (save McCain’s “throw them out of the country”) is half as nutty as Hypocrite Hillary telling Obama to give back David Geffen’s money because he called her and Bill mean names. I mean, what game does she think she’s playing?

    How does one have anything to do with the other? Seriously, are you incapable of discussing the topic at hand?

  29. 29
    Brian says:

    Some of us could care less what Hillary Baba is talking about, given that she is nothing more than a Republican in sheep’s clothing.

  30. 30
    Zifnab says:

    I mean, what game does she think she’s playing?

    I believe the game is called “Politics”. It’s the game everyone in the Presidential Race is playing.

    That said, EEEL is right about one thing. Sully is so late jumping on this bus, I’m surprised why he’s even bothered. It’s 2007 and Andrew is just now realizing how outrageously panderlicious our Dear Leader has become? Give me a fucking break. The only thing more pathetic than Sully’s eleventh hour conversion from Fundie-mentalism to mainstream common sense, is his church lady sense of verbal decency. Once again, if you haven’t started swearing at the President until just today, you might as well save the explicatives for the next round of Republican contenders.

  31. 31
    Gold Star for Robot Boy says:

    Sully is so late jumping on this bus, I’m surprised why he’s even bothered.

    He’s despised Bush for a long while, but never used profanity to do so. That’s what makes his outburst today notable.

  32. 32
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    The prez took some time, that he should have been spending trying to figure out how to get out of the many messes his pathetic presidency has made, to make sure those worshipful bloggers know the right things to say to his base.

    Whatever. You’re entitled to your opinion… but yeah, I’m sure that hour was crucial. Do you need a fainting hanky, too?

    Seriously, Bush no doubt sees US public opinion about rebuilding Iraq as important to its success. He knows that Big Media isn’t going to say much of anything about the successes in Iraq, because it hurts The Narrative, so he’s going to people in the conservative Alternative Media who also feel that way. He did it last week with an hour for the MilBloggers, too. Obviously, it’s part of a (seemingly sound and transparent) strategy to get out some of the good news that otherwise gets ignored, in order to show that Iraq isn’t the lost cause that the left/media says it is.

    The mil-blogger sessions have been transcribed, as I’m sure today’s session will be. They weren’t secret, by any means. If you can find a part where he told bloggers (who disagree with him on many issues including his handling of Iraq — but they’re still “worshipful,” right?) what to say, have at it. I haven’t read any such thing.

  33. 33
    capelza says:

    I am just glad when anyone finally sees the “light”.

    People could stay pissed at someone who didn’t before, but get over it.

    Last night, one of our crewmen spent the night before the boat went out this morning. Politics came up and as we are known “liberals” he sheepishly and with great sadness admitted he voted for Bush even though now he understood. I wish you could have seen how embarrassed he was. He was waiting to be ripped into for being “stupid”. What good would that have done?

    He knows NOW. What he does in the future is determined by that. Beating him about the head for past mistakes would only drive him away.

    Save the rotten fish to beat NRO and all the war cheerleaders about the head and neck.

  34. 34
    Gold Star for Robot Boy says:

    Obviously, it’s part of a (seemingly sound and transparent) strategy to get out some of the good news that otherwise gets ignored, in order to show that Iraq isn’t the lost cause that the left/media says it is.

    Give. Me. A. Break.

  35. 35
    Jake says:

    Rep. Tom Davis (R-Va.) asked committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) Tuesday to convene a hearing on the issue, saying that any rate change “for political advertising could constitute an unlawful campaign contribution.”

    Heh. Leaving aside what a blistering ass this man is, I bet someone on Tom’s side of the aisle tells him to StFu. Clearly he hasn’t thought … This out:

    1. The NYT open its books for every single political ad (and have fun defining that one!) they’ve run.

    2. The records will show that ads placed by Republican/Conservative organizations also got a cut.

    3. The NYT (after taking its 50 lashes) stops offering discounts to any organization, period.

    4. Tom discovers a lot of his contributors are cranky and suddenly there’s no RNC funding available for his next campaign.

    5. I get to laugh at another ass hat. Keep up the good work Tommy.

  36. 36
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    How does one have anything to do with the other? Seriously, are you incapable of discussing the topic at hand?

    I find it staggering that someone seriously thought that being offended by the Petraeus “Betray Us” ad was a sign of being “crazy,” as the poster said. As if perfectly sane people couldn’t be offended by full-page allegations of treason against a military leader during a war. Hell, I’d even say that such offense would be the norm.

    I just think we should have a higher standard for “crazy,” and Hillary’s bizarre demand of Obama was the craziest (recent) thing I could recall by a major candidate.

  37. 37
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    Give. Me. A. Break.

    You. Got. It.

  38. 38
    Zifnab says:

    Heh. More disgraces.

    On the Webb bill, that would mandate soldiers receive equal time at home for the time they spend in the field.

    RNC Chair Mel Martinez: “I think we would demean their service if we were to say to them that there had to be a parity between the time in service out of the country and the time at home.

    Senator Warner (R-VA): I endorsed it. I intend now to cast a vote against it.

    McCain said he and Sen. John Warner (R-VA) have teamed up to put together a “sense of the Senate” amendment to express “very clearly that we all want all our troops home and we understand the stress and strain that’s been inflicted on the men and women in the military and the guard and reserves.”

  39. 39
    capelza says:

    Zinfab..have you ever heard more weasel words than Martinez’?

    And of course this makes it all better. Rolls eyes.

    McCain said he and Sen. John Warner (R-VA) have teamed up to put together a “sense of the Senate” amendment to express “very clearly that we all want all our troops home and we understand the stress and strain that’s been inflicted on the men and women in the military and the guard and reserves.”

    At least my GOP Senator voted for it. Smith confuses me, but the guy does try. Some might think it’s only because of politics, but I have talked to the guy. He’s trying to represent ALL of his constituents, not just those of his party.

    I must be feeling charitable today.

  40. 40
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    He did it last week with an hour for the MilBloggers, too.

    And these manly-men milbloggers all caught the vapors and giggled like teenieboppers. This thing today was painfully lame (and fully expected); the milblogger episode was just plain pathetic. “OMG OMG OMG i tlkd to prezbsh!”

  41. 41
    Zifnab says:

    Zinfab..have you ever heard more weasel words than Martinez’?

    Sure. Just listen to Bush. The only thing worse than speaking for the troops like Martinez did is verballing hiding behind them like President did.

  42. 42
    Rick Taylor says:

    Sully is so late jumping on this bus, I’m surprised why he’s even bothered. It’s 2007 and Andrew is just now realizing how outrageously panderlicious our Dear Leader has become?

    Actually, that’s one of the things I like. As I said before, the people who were outraged from he beginning have become jaded. Yeah, yeah, worst Presdent, a permanent blot on America, torture, war of aggression, it’s hard to get worked up after at least four years. His anger is still fresh. And frankly, I don’t give a damn when someone wakes up, the important thing is they do; we need as many people who see what’s happening and are appalled by it as we can get.

  43. 43
    Tulkinghorn says:

    As if perfectly sane people couldn’t be offended by full-page allegations of treason against a military leader during a war.

    betrayal /= treason

    And arguendo, what is offensive about an accusation of treason against a military leader?

    ‘Betrayal’ alone is serious business, sure, but so is the charge leveled against him, of mis-stating the facts regarding the surge, and of allowing himself to play an explicitly political role while in uniform? If true, these things are criminal, and most certainly a profound betrayal to the troops he leads, even if they are not technically treason.

    The Bushies are not offended for the sake of the honor of the good General, they are royally pissed about being called out for dirty pool.

  44. 44
    Dennis-SGMM says:

    He knows that Big Media isn’t going to say much of anything about the successes in Iraq, because it hurts The Narrative,

    He knows that Big Media isn’t going to say much of anything about the successes in Iraq, because it hurts The Narrative…

    Iraq has 65% unemployment, tens of thousands dead, sectarian cleansing, a totally ineffective and corrupt police force, a largely unready national army, a central government with no power outside of the Green Zone, 2.2 million refugees, and increasing cases of cholera, to name a few.

    On the other hand, the President was able to land unannounced at a desert airport with a seventeen mile security perimeter. He shook hands with a phony sheik who was later blown up. Now that’s success.

    If Air Force One could land at Baghdad International Airport, announced or not, and the President could drive the ten miles to the city I’d say that there was some success. Otherwise, you’re just pissing in the wind.

  45. 45
    chopper says:

    the president’s view the attack on Petraeus as ‘an attack on men and women in uniform.’”

    isn’t this the same guy whose party handed out purple band-aids at his convention to ridicule a decorated veteran?

  46. 46
    jrg says:

    “It is one thing to attack me — which is fine,” the president said. But the president’s view the attack on Petraeus as “an attack on men and women in uniform.”

    Bush is so right. Moveon has no right to attack his mouthpiece. He’s hiding behind Petraeus fair and square.

    In other news, returning fire coming from a mosque is actually an attack on Islam, and questioning the scientific soundness of “intelligent design” is actually an attack on Christianity.

    I’m going to buy a black hand puppet and use it curse out my boss. When I get fired, I’ll sue for racial discrimination.

  47. 47
    Rick Taylor says:

    Please. None of the GOP’s reaction to the MoveOn ad (save McCain’s “throw them out of the country”) is half as nutty as Hypocrite Hillary telling Obama to give back David Geffen’s money because he called her and Bill mean names. I mean, what game does she think she’s playing?

    *blinks* Hee. Look! Clinton!!! It’s like a caricature of how the right wing argues.

    I usually try to avoid campaign trivia, what with there being a war on and all, but since you brought it up, I looked it up. I’d agree the Clinton campagins response was kind of dumb, and I thought Obama’s initial response was classy: “”It’s not clear to me why I’d be apologizing for someone else’s remark.”

    And what Evlibeard said. An intercine squablle between Hillary and Obama is hardly comparable to all the major Republican candidates and the President and the Vice President engaging in public full throated denunciations of a newspaper ad complete with demands upon the Democrats to denounce it and the suggestion by some that Hillary’s mildly critical questioning of Petaeus was somehow beyond the pale (character assassination, according to Guiliani). There was a time I would have though conservatives would be more troubled by this sort of thing. it’s boardering on the suggestion that questioning certain people in authority is out of bounds.

    As if perfectly sane people couldn’t be offended by full-page allegations of treason against a military leader during a war.

    There were no allegations of treason in the ad. Seriously, if you haven’t read it, I’d encourage you to do so. And it wasn’t just that they “were offended.” NR says the President is “going to war” over it, Giuliani was calling Hillary’s questioning of Petraeues character assassination. . . dang, I’m repeating myself, it’s all in the original post.

    Seriously, Bush no doubt sees US public opinion about rebuilding Iraq as important to its success. He knows that Big Media isn’t going to say much of anything about the successes in Iraq, because it hurts The Narrative, so he’s going to people in the conservative Alternative Media who also feel that way. He did it last week with an hour for the MilBloggers, too. Obviously, it’s part of a (seemingly sound and transparent) strategy to get out some of the good news that otherwise gets ignored, in order to show that Iraq isn’t the lost cause that the left/media says it is.

    Seriously, this just stops my mind. After four years, there are over four million Iraqi refugees, the Sunni’s have left the government, defacto ethnic cleansing has turned Baghdad into a city where he majority if neighborhoods are Shia, the educated classes including most imortantly doctors have had to flee the country because of the violence, and conservatives still think it’s all a plot by the media not to report the good news!?!? If someone had told me four years ago Iraq would be the way it is now, as pesimistic as I was, I don’t think I would have believed them. How bad exactly does it have to get before conservatives admit, actually, the media is reporting bad news because, well, things have been going really badly? I’m stunned.

  48. 48

    I find it staggering that someone seriously thought that being offended by the Petraeus “Betray Us” ad was a sign of being “crazy,” as the poster said. As if perfectly sane people couldn’t be offended by full-page allegations of treason against a military leader during a war.

    I think the fact that the “offense” is so over the top speaks for itself on the crazy scale.

  49. 49
    RSA says:

    But the [P]resident‘s view[s] the attack on Petraeus as “an attack on men and women in uniform.”

    Couldn’t help fixing some basic grammar. One thing jumps out at me, though, especially given what Tony Snow and Laura Bush have said about the President’s feelings about this war: Bush has no idea what he means when he uses the word “attack”.

  50. 50
    Wilfred says:

    Bush and his kind are the posterity of the Republicans who did everything to smear Gen. Smedley Butler, a man whose career and service makes Petraeus look like a cub scout. Look him up, we could use him today. The double-dealing of the right is a thing to behold.

  51. 51
    Rick Taylor says:

    I find it staggering that someone seriously thought that being offended by the Petraeus “Betray Us” ad was a sign of being “crazy,” as the poster said.

    What the Other Steve said.

    And just to clarify, I don’t believe they’re crazy (with the possible exception Guiliani). I’m more cynical than that. They’re pushing on this because they have nothing else, because they have no coherent strategy for Iraq, nothing but slogans. All they can do is try to take peoples’ attention off Iraq by going after MoveOn. If things we’re going well in Iraq, or even if they were willing to be honest about and had some strategy for what to do beyond slogans, there wouldn’t have been any need to turn into a war against MoveOn.

  52. 52
    JR says:

    Well, I view an attack on Democrats as a terrorist attack on New York. Can I send Bush to Gitmo now?

  53. 53
    Rick Taylor says:

    In other news, voting on cloture to restore Habeas Corpus:

    Democrats 49 to 0 in favor
    Republicans, 42 to 6 against

    Can’t get much more stark than that.

  54. 54
    John Cole says:

    I guess what gets me is that on a daily basis, we are told how tough the republicans are (witness Goldfarb’s tasing bullshit yesterday), but the minute you say something remotely critical, they screech like a stuck pig.

    What a bunch of whiny pricks.

  55. 55
    Wilfred says:

    Lieberman (Lik-Isr) voted with the Republicans. Imagine if Gore had become President, he would be unstoppable now.

  56. 56

    Little Georgie hiding behing General Betrayus is just another pathetic ploy by this wretched president designed to keep this wretrched war going for a little while longer.

    Bush started this war, and now he can neither win or end it.

  57. 57
    Rick Taylor says:

    Damn, the Webb amendment just went down on a party line vote, and another Republican filibuster. How I wish the Democratic leadership in the senate would actually force them to do a real filibuster. They’ve gotten to abuse it for far too long. Let them get up explain to the American people for hours on end how we can’t possibly give our soldiers sufficient rest and recovery time between deployments.

  58. 58
    Jess says:

    Sully has been a critic of this administration and of the neocons for quite some time now. He actually supported Kerry in 2004. He says plenty of things I find idiotic, but has been pretty fair-minded and thoughtful on the whole, even though occasionally deluded. I read a part of his book, The Conservative Soul, and was struck by both his naivety and his sincere attempts to Do the Right Thing. Like a lot of true conservatives, he’s been stoned on the Red Scare weed, but he’s trying to sober up. What else can a conservative do? John, you’re in the same boat–do you think he should be doing something more?

  59. 59
    John Cole says:

    What else can a conservative do? John, you’re in the same boat—do you think he should be doing something more?

    I have been railing against these guys for at least 2-3 years, am a complete outcast as far as the right wing blogosphere is concerned, voted for Democrats in 2006, will vote for them again in 2008, and am not sure what else I can do.

  60. 60
    stickler says:

    Capelza, what?

    At least my GOP Senator voted for it. Smith confuses me, but the guy does try. Some might think it’s only because of politics, but I have talked to the guy. He’s trying to represent ALL of his constituents, not just those of his party.

    Gordon Smith may have told you “he’s trying to represent ALL of his constituents,” but it’s really striking how he suddenly discovers HOW TO VOTE THE WAY HIS OREGON CONSTITUENTS WANT HIM TO approximately every fifth year. The rest of the time (i.e., when he’s not running for re-election), he’s a reliable vote for the batshit craziest crap the Texas GOP shovels up in the Senate. He’s George Bush’s boy all the way (except in 2002 and 2008, when he’ll vote against ’em once in a long while). The man is an empty Mormon suit.

  61. 61
    Andrew says:

    I have been railing against these guys for at least 2-3 years, am a complete outcast as far as the right wing blogosphere is concerned, voted for Democrats in 2006, will vote for them again in 2008, and am not sure what else I can do.

    Drink?

  62. 62
    JWW says:

    John,

    I read the ultrafine research you’ve spent hours on. You are such a surface cleaner, maybe you should patent the method you use. Your usefulness for real information may have been passed on to the “switchboard operators of the 20’s”. They at a minimum were hearing conversations in first person. You on the other hand, end up with the gossip portion of it. Like I have said in the past, seek details, truth, lies, anything you want. Don’t ape, seek.

  63. 63
    Jess says:

    not sure what else I can do.

    I think you are doing all you can, but do you think Sullivan is doing a decent job of sorting out a valid form of conservatism from all the bullshit? I’m curious about how you see your fellow disillusioned conservatives.

    I’ve known so many good and honorable people that identify themselves as conservatives, and it’s clear that they really got taken for a ride by the more corrupt elements in the party. But like a lot of critics, its hard for me to excuse them despite my sympathy because it’s our job as members of a democracy (republic, whatever) to question authority and to try to maintain a balance of power. Their purity demanded that they turn a blind eye to abuses of power that have been going on for generations, not just recently, and other people paid a huge price for that.

  64. 64
    tBone says:

    As if perfectly sane people couldn’t be offended by full-page allegations of treason against a military leader during a war.

    Full-page allegations of treason? Golly, that is serious! Someone should demand an immediate investigation to root out the troops that originally hung that tag on Petraeus. My guess is that Scott Beauchamp was one of ’em.

    I read the ultrafine research you’ve spent hours on. You are such a surface cleaner, maybe you should patent the method you use. Your usefulness for real information may have been passed on to the “switchboard operators of the 20’s”. They at a minimum were hearing conversations in first person. You on the other hand, end up with the gossip portion of it. Like I have said in the past, seek details, truth, lies, anything you want. Don’t ape, seek.

    Can we have a “no posting after you’ve spent the entire evening huffing paint” rule?

  65. 65

    JWW – I’m curious. What do you have to gain?

  66. 66
    rawshark says:

    So the troops came up with the name Betray-Us which is a slur against the troops?

  67. 67
    JWW says:

    John,

    Have you ever assured your readers,”I have looked at all the facts I could find” here is are my thoughts on the subject. No, you answer. I only look for what I know will sate you,”that you can feed on”, all else is a lie. Well, a lie as far as I can see, but don’t worry “your bottle will be warm and I will feed you”. Most of you seem to credit yourselve’s as scholars, fine by me. Why don’t you act as such. When you were a baby, mom fed you peas, you spit them out. Mom fed you carrots, you smiled. Do you think mom went and wasted more money on peas. No, she learned, later in life you may have grown up and loved peas. But you would have never known your history of peas, until your mom passed it on “you know, when you were a baby you hated peas”. That’s what moms are for. Passed history and the study of current times is what will form the future. John, you have not passed the nurture stage when it comes to the history beyond your life{only your life, in its personal selfishness}.

  68. 68
    demimondian says:

    JWW…are you drunk, or merely stupid? Or at you both stupid and drunk?

  69. 69
    Rick Taylor says:

    not sure what else I can do.

    All I can think of is putting more constructive pressure on our Democratic representatives to show more spine. I don’t understand why they aren’t forcing the GOP to pay the price for filibustering popular legislation. Since the 2006 elections, it’s just become a given that any bill requires 60 votes in the Senate to pass. Force them to come out and publicly argue for hours on end not to bring back Habeus Corpus, or not to allow our troops a decent period of rest between deployments. Either a few more moderates will cave and we’ll pass the legislation, or they’ll be forced to tie themselves even tighter to the Bush administrations unpopular policies.

    I remember the Republican’s played hardball politics when they were in control. Holding the vote open on the medicare bill for hours, then suddenly closing it right when they had the boats. I don’t think the Democrats can or should go that far, but the have to play harder than they are now. They’ve improved some, but not nearly enough.

  70. 70
    JWW says:

    Other_Steve,

    I am not looking to gain. I am only looking, and seeking to seperate what is BS and what is not. John, searches very hard the point of”what fits, the way I think”. John, as I have stated before, has twenty, maybe thirty loyal followers. He seems too rag on the same writers, which don’t mean sh*t to me, I don’t read them. He loves too jump on Jimbo{Black Five} that’s okay. Jimbo is a portion of the site. You have never, or at least while I have read this blog, heard a word of his posted BS about what Michael Yon, Michael Totten, GreyHawk has to say. I figure the main reason why, if he brings those names too the forefront, his readers may stray. Like I said, it seek the truth. Easy to say but hard to do. Think of it this way, if your child was accused of a wrong doing, you would question your child first. But you would also question all the children involved.

  71. 71
    JWW says:

    Other_Steve,

    You may not want or maybe should not ask me reasonable questions. I am both insane and addicted to some sort of{beer, herion, cocain, lithium}, not sure which, I can’t afford them all. But, research is free.

  72. 72
    Fledermaus says:

    And it wasn’t just that they “were offended.” NR says the President is “going to war” over it,

    Given how well Bush’s wars have gone so far I doubt anyone if quaking in their boots over his threat.

  73. 73
    grumpy realist says:

    We’re in the hands of an idiot president who has never had to be competent at anything in his life. What’s scary is the present swath of Republicans running for office. The sanest-sounding one of them is Ron Paul–which gives you an idea how batshit loony the rest are.

    When did the Republican party turn into such a collection of squirrel food?

  74. 74
    John Cole says:

    JWW…are you drunk, or merely stupid? Or at you both stupid and drunk?

    Both.

    And if I bother to respond, he will once again tell me that I was a shitty soldier and my service was worthless (which he does about every night) because I now refuse to be a keyboard commando with him.

    He can go fuck himself. I ban him every night, but he comes back with a new IP. Which means that they must have dynamic IP’s at his asylum.

  75. 75
    rachel says:

    When did the Republican party turn into such a collection of squirrel food?

    When they went a-courtin’ the JWW vote.

  76. 76
    Cain says:

    This whole blackwater thing worries me. We have what 30 thousand people who seem to have carte blanc to do whatever the hell they want including murder? I’m worried about them coming back here. God knows what kind of mental state they have with being able to murder at will. Freaking scary man. Real freaking scary. All of us as citizens in the U.S. should be concerned.

    I suppose at least a couple of them will be bodyguards here in the U.S. to Congressmen.

    cain

  77. 77
    Rick Taylor says:

    Still looking for sane Republicans here. I like senator Lugar. He’s actually able to talk coherently about the situation in Iraq and what we need to do Link.

    . . . Bold and creative regional diplomacy is not just an accompaniment to our efforts in Iraq, it is a precondition for the success of any policy. We cannot sustain a successful policy in Iraq unless we repair alliances, recruit more international participants in Iraq, anticipate refugee flows, prevent regional aggression, generate new basing options and otherwise prepare for future developments. If we have not made substantial diplomatic progress by the time a post-surge policy is implemented, our options will be severely constrained and we will be guessing at a viable course in a rapidly evolving environment.

    That’s more clear than most Democrats. Unfortunately, he opposes all time tables and seems to think the only way to proceed is to appeal to the President to see reason. Can’t he see by now that’s never going to happen? He argues eloquently for actions this President will never carry out. We liberals make fun of Democratic wimpiness, but the Democrats are veritable he-men compared to Republican moderates.

    We desperately need some more moderate Republicans to take a stand and not keep enabling this administration. They need to take their party back; we liberals can’t do that. I don’t like the way the country is being divided; I’d really like to see a return to sanity on the part of some Republicans, but if that’s going to happen, someone over on that side of the aisle who has some sense has to get up and lead.

    Why isn’t there at least one responsible moderate Republican candidate for the Presidency like Lugar? Even if he were to loose, I’d feel a little less desperate about the Republican party.

  78. 78
    TenguPhule says:

    We desperately need some more moderate Republicans to take a stand and not keep enabling this administration.

    We could also wish for a pony while we’re at it.

    Face it, the ‘moderates’ are Fucking Republicans to the Core and have to be dealt with the same way.

    Kick them in the nads until they go away.

  79. 79
    TenguPhule says:

    Obviously, it’s part of a (seemingly sound and transparent) strategy to get out some of the good news that otherwise gets ignored, in order to show that Iraq isn’t the lost cause that the left/media says it is.

    -Irony of the Day, by EEEL

    The stupid, it burns!

  80. 80
    liberal says:

    Cain wrote,

    God knows what kind of mental state they have with being able to murder at will. Freaking scary man. Real freaking scary. All of us as citizens in the U.S. should be concerned.

    Nah. Difference is that here we have something called “rule of law.” They can get away with that crap in Iraq, but they do that here, they’re either going to fry, or be stuck in jail for quite a long time.

  81. 81
    Face says:

    Most of you seem to credit yourselve’s as scholars, fine by me. Why don’t you act as such. When you were a baby, mom fed you peas, you spit them out. Mom fed you carrots, you smiled. Do you think mom went and wasted more money on peas. No, she learned, later in life you may have grown up and loved peas.

    OJ=====>monitor

    John, PLEASE dont ban this guy. This schtick is as funny as it gets. EVery post is Birdzilla grammar + Cassidy Concern Troll rant + Darrell off-topic ramblings. It just doesn’t get better comedy than this.

  82. 82
    Zifnab says:

    Nah. Difference is that here we have something called “rule of law.” They can get away with that crap in Iraq, but they do that here, they’re either going to fry, or be stuck in jail for quite a long time.

    Tell it to OJ.
    Or to Paris Hilton, for that matter.

    These Blackwater guys are going to come back to a handful of wacko southern states like Georgia and the Carolinas, Mississippi and Alabama, and Texas (shudders), and they’re going to be banking from their five years of mercenary service in Iraq. They’ll move into some small towns with an affordable local government, and do whatever they damn well please. I won’t be surprised if today’s Blackwater mercenary is tomorrow’s David Koresh. I totally expect today’s Blackwater mercenaries to become tomorrow’s Swiftboating Bob Perry. Guys like this will be a stain on our country for a generation to come.

  83. 83
    Uncle Kvetch says:

    Forgive me if I can’t get too excited about Sullivan’s righteous rage. He’s angry that what could have been a perfectly splendid little war of choice was botched by the Bush administration. It’s going to be that much harder for he and his fellow keyboard kommandos to get the next war on, and this infuriates him.

    If Hillary gets into office, Sully and his buds will be baying for her to send US tanks rolling into Teheran tout de suite, and screaming “CHAMBERLAIN!” if she doesn’t comply.

  84. 84
    Punchy says:

    These Blackwater guys are going to come back to a handful of wacko southern states

    Put them all in Mississippi. Then seal the border. Then sell to China.

    Problem solved.

  85. 85
    tBone says:

    EVery post is Birdzilla grammar + Cassidy Concern Troll rant + Darrell off-topic ramblings.

    Wonder Troll powers, activate!

  86. 86

    JWW – You didn’t answer the question.

    What do you have to gain? Why would you continue to just blindly support stupidity, unless you had something to gain from it.

  87. 87
    Jake says:

    Which means that they must have dynamic IP’s at his asylum.

    Nah. Somewhere librarians snarl: “Oh shit, not that whack job again!” when he walks through the door.

  88. 88

    […] It takes a dip into the text in the article accompanying the graph to figure out what is going on: this was a poll of Iraqis, not Americans. So now it all makes sense; as unpopular as our military efforts are here at home, it’s nothing like the scorn that we receive from the country we are purportedly saving. Admittedly, closer scrutiny did provide clues that the poll might not have been sampling Americans: the question referred specifically to the escalation “in Baghdad and surrounding provinces,” rather than just “in Iraq,” a distinction that is rather too fine for most Americans to fret about. And there were six different forms of the question, addressing levels of detail that again would not be foremost of the minds of anyone who saw things in terms of supporting vs. attacking our brave men and women in uniform. Like the President. […]

  89. 89
    Gus says:

    EEEL, do you really think that chatting with National Review bloggers is going to get the word out to the American people about anything? He’s given up on all but the true believers. If anything, it shows that he has to go out of his way to keep the base on board. Not a good sign for the 28 percenters.

  90. 90
    Justin says:

    Let it be known which party is the party of “Oh my god, that’s politically incorrect! You can’t say that!”

  91. 91
    grumpy realist says:

    (Hmm–the comments about the library reminds me of my stint at the Warburg, which aside from being a remarkably fine research institution also happens to have loads of stuff from Aleister Crowley. Which means every now and then we would get a wanna-be “occultist” wandering through the door…..)

  92. 92
    CalD says:

    I think they they call their blog “The Corner” because that’s where they used to make the dunces sit.

  93. 93
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    Rick, since I dealt with your notion of Hillary’s “mildly critical questioning of Petaeus” (calling him either an incompetent, a liar, or a traitor — mild, hardly noteworthy stuff like that) on the other thread, I’ll skip down to:

    How bad exactly does it have to get before conservatives admit, actually, the media is reporting bad news because, well, things have been going really badly? I’m stunned.

    You’ve changed my argument to suit your rant, of course. The criticism isn’t that the media reports bad news, it’s that they don’t report the successes. Most days, all we get on the networks is “X number of soldiers/civilians died in Iraq,” which is not only totally negative, but is the laziest form of “journalism.” It’s like saying the score to the game was “Steelers 21.”

    Whether that’s pure laziness by Big Media, or “if it bleeds, it leads,” or institutional liberal bias is irrelevant. The President has seen for 7 years how the media works, so it’s obvious to me why he’s taken a couple hours to talk to conservatives who have an outlet to disperse the news of the improvements in Iraq.

  94. 94
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    I think the fact that the “offense” is so over the top speaks for itself on the crazy scale.

    The oldest rule in politics: When it benefits your party, it’s a big deal. When it benefits the other party, it’s over the top and blown out of proportion. The MoveOn New York Times ad has clearly hurt the Democrats.

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] It takes a dip into the text in the article accompanying the graph to figure out what is going on: this was a poll of Iraqis, not Americans. So now it all makes sense; as unpopular as our military efforts are here at home, it’s nothing like the scorn that we receive from the country we are purportedly saving. Admittedly, closer scrutiny did provide clues that the poll might not have been sampling Americans: the question referred specifically to the escalation “in Baghdad and surrounding provinces,” rather than just “in Iraq,” a distinction that is rather too fine for most Americans to fret about. And there were six different forms of the question, addressing levels of detail that again would not be foremost of the minds of anyone who saw things in terms of supporting vs. attacking our brave men and women in uniform. Like the President. […]

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