This is exceptional:
Buying Time…
…but not much. Rasmussen’s latest survey suggests that the administration has convinced most Americans that we should wait until General Petraeus reports in September before deciding on any change of course in Iraq: 51% hold that view, compared to 38% who disagree.
That’s good, I guess. The problem is that September is right around the corner. How realistic is it to expect conditions in Iraq to change enough in the next eight or nine weeks to convince Americans, most of whom are now pessimistic, that a corner has been turned? If the Democrats were smart, they would have joined with the administration in identifying September as the key date, rather than trying to undermine the surge from the opening gun. In September, it won’t be hard for them to argue that any improvements are modest and the surge, having been given a fair chance, should be terminated.
You see- things are going badly because the DEMOCRATS ARE UNDERMINING our efforts. Just last week, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi were spotted placing IED’s near Baghdad.
You will have to forgive Hinderaker for this one. First, he is an idiot and can not control himself. Second, let’s face it- with Bush guttered out at 26%, any time they see a poll number over 50% they are going to get a little full of themselves.
ConservativelyLiberal
And Bill Clinton was spotted nearby holding a cellphone…
There, I got the ‘Clinton did it’ out of the way right from the start…
Anything over 50% makes them ‘get a little full of themselves’? Hell, according to them, polls are rigged unless they are in their favor.
Right now, soldiers are dying in Iraq, as are innocents caught up in the middle of this mess. And BushCo are out on the town enjoying steak dinners and collecting campaign $$$$.
Bring back the draft. Lets see what shared sacrifice is all about, and how long it would take the rest of the public to wake up…
tBone
I don’t know; that post seems eminently reasonable by Hinderakerian standards. For instance:
I mean, the guy practically comes out and says that Iraq isn’t going that well. Why does the Hinderocketeer hate America?
Chad N. Freude
John, you didn’t quote enough of the drooling idiot’s posting.
If that isn’t proof that Bush is the most beloved president ever, with the most popular policies ever, I don’t know what it would take to convince you Bush-haters who twist every positive Bush accomplishment into a failure.
Dave
Nor did you Chad.
Last I looked Bushie had been mired in the sub 30s for quite a while.
ThymeZone
John, your commentary on the war is about 1000 times better than Assrocket’s. I’d rather read yours than his.
Less Hinderaker, more Cole.
Psycheout
That’s actually pretty dumb. I have to agree with you, John. Even Senator Brownback recognized that the “surge” was not the solution. He didn’t support it. His recommendation is for a political three state solution, something like the “United States of Iraq.”
If Hinderaker was in favor of the surge and was shouting down those who did not, he’s got an incentive to cover his behind. Not too surprising, actually.
And Powerline was Time’s blog of the year…!
Chad N. Freude
Point taken. I guess this is a surge.
Chad N. Freude
Henry Luce would be thrashing about in his grave if he had been just a teeny bit less of a Republican.
When they published that, it certainly persuaded me that they were at the forefront of Web 0.2.
Rome Again
How many lives that are extinguished between now and Petraus’ September report is Hinderaker willing to be held personally accountable for?
jake
F’ed.
Hindscraper commits heresy when he suggests the President pay any attention to whatsoever to the polls. Has the anti-John forgotten the President is guided by God? Bush is aware that the
Romansvoters don’t like him andthe PhariseesCongress is grumbling against him, but he knows that is a sign that he is doing God’s bidding.Eric
From what you’ve quoted, I don’t think Hinderaker is saying that the Dems are to blame for the problems in Iraq. I think he’s saying that the Dems should have gone along with a September deadline for results because (1) it’s not that far away; a month or two wouldn’t make a big difference in the grand scheme of things, and (2) it would have put them in a better political position — they would have looked somewhat magnanimous and would have opened themselves up to fewer attacks of wanting the surge to fail. Whether this is a valid point or not, I reserve comment.
paradox
You sho wized up, boy.
Rome Again
How many American lives is that? How many Iraqi lives? I’ll bet those who will die would now think it makes a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.
John Cole
Nonsense. HE is laying the groundwork to state that the Democrats are the reason the surge failed, when the reality is that the Democrats have given Bush and the Pentagon EVERYTHING they have asked for and stopped nothing.
Go ask the far left- they are pissed at the Democrats for capitulating.
Never underestimate the hubris from these folks
Quiddity
I see there is a “filed under” category of John Hinderaker Is A Total Idiot.
Love it.
Tony J
Christ, John. Looking at the polls it’s pretty clear that being pissed with the Dems for picking up the White House’s soap is as centrist and moderate as Mom’s Apple Pie. Far Left my hairy arse.
ConservativelyLiberal
I just watched the five clips of the Bill Moyers PBS show on impeachment. Bruce Fein and John Nichols are speaking some powerful words of truth, however painful it is to hear, that our politicians are not acting as leaders but rather as politicians. If you have not seen it, I heartily recommend doing so right now. The hair was standing up on my arms by the end of the last clip, and when it finished all I could say was ‘whoa’.
Impeachment is not the creation of a constitutional crisis, it is the solution for one. Their assessment that our politicians treat the public like children is on target. That the country can’t take the stress of impeachment hearings is just bullshit. Having people give up American Idol and whatever else would somehow traumatize them.
Someone needs to sit our politicians down, glue their eyelids open, stuff gags in their mouths and MAKE them watch this. If they do not agree to start impeachment hearings immediately afterward, then they are not fit to serve our nation.
As was pointed out in the show, our founding fathers mentioned impeachment six times as they knew it was a necessary part of what our constitution is all about. That there would be times that the executive would over reach, and that there needed to be a way to put them back in their place. That we are a nation of laws, not men (or women, may I add).
Their discussion about the fourth estate (the press) was on target too. The founding fathers probably never thought that the control of the press would be in the hands of so few, that there would always be objectors in the press to stand up and give some backbone to our politicians that would force their hand into action. Or that there would be a few politicians who would stand up and do the right thing. Sadly, there are none, and our politicians are only in this for themselves. To hell with the constitution and the people it is supposed to protect.
Our politicians are neglecting their oaths of office. They are only interested in their political fortunes. They are not serving us, they are self serving in the worst way. Their allegiance is to party, not to the nation, its people and its constitution.
After watching this, I am disgusted and angry. Bush and Cheney are bad enough, but the enablers in our legislative branch are even worse. They have let this happen to us. They are the ones to blame, not just Bush and Cheney.
I really do not know what else to say, I am just sick and frightened for what the future has in store for us. The referral to the fall of the Roman Empire on the show was probably right. We may be seeing our own version of that happening right now.
This is not just Bush and Cheney, this is a total failure of our government. Total, abject failure.
VidaLoca
Conservatively,
Fucking aye.
If you haven’t seen the Moyers special the link is here. (see “Tough Talk About Impeachment”). I’m only part of the way through it but I’d say you’re right, it’s powerful stuff. Cliff notes and some commentary here.
ConservativelyLiberal
I souuld have specified that I saw it at YouTube. Here is the link to part one, and the other parts will be listed to the right of the clip.
Thanks for the prompt there VidaLoca :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyFeRjt3Rs&mode=related&search=
ConservativelyLiberal
I should have specified that I saw it at YouTube. Here is the link to part one, and the other parts will be listed to the right of the clip.
Thanks for the prompt there VidaLoca :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyFeRjt3Rs&mode=related&search=
VidaLoca
And of course the only people who don’t get this is the stumbling, bumbling Democrats.
John, since you brought up this “far left” business: we’re in a mess — domestically, internationally — of historic proportions. You don’t deny any of that, in fact you’re sounding a lot like one of the DFH’s these days. So relative to what, exactly, is “far left”? The Democrats?
RSA
Not realistic at all. Of course, we have the Bush administration and Republicans in Congress all saying, “It’s premature to judge progress in Iraq; wait until September.” War supporters want to have it both ways: Don’t criticize the surge now, because we don’t know enough to judge, but don’t expect any significant improvement in the near future either. Just keep on beating the war drums.
Jay C
And so what do you expect John Assrocket’s comments are going to be when polls in September show that the “change of course” most Americans will favor is a massive charge to the nearest exit? With one-way tickets to The Hague for Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld?
Zifnab
I doubt the polls will significantly change in September. Anyone who hasn’t made up their minds on this already – after eight or nine Friedmans of this crap – will keep beating that war drum dill the drum sticks break and the head caves in. There is nothing now that anyone could say short of “all our troops are dead” that would break the keyboard commandos’ resolve.
John Cole
Sometimes you all make me want to fucking scream.
Where do you read the most vocal, most vehement, and most constant outrage about these issues?
Far left/progressive websites.
You guys just get all pissy and sensitive whenever the name far left is used, even when used innocuously.
Davebo
Welcome to our world…
Chad N. Freude
I wouldn’t bet on that. I don’t have a lot of confidence in the thoughtfulness and logical consistency of my fellow Americans, at least the ones that the pollsters poll. They seem to view the war, and international politics in general, as a major league baseball game. When our team is winning, we fill the ballpark and cheer like mad. When the team is losing, they’re bums and we have no interest in watching them abase themselves. Petraeus is playing umpire here, and if he calls a potential win, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see a surge in the polls bigger than the surge in Iraq.
(My apologies to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Metaphors.)
Chad N. Freude
And what exactly are the distinguishing characteristics of the far left? Of progressives? Are they the same? John, do you consider yourself far right/conservative?
I consider myself a progressive but not a member of the far left. Am I inconsistent? Confused? Schizoid?
chopper
but the surge was a stupid idea right from the start. i mean, it’s been years of crap in iraq and the president is all ‘a few thousand more troops will fix everything’, i mean that’s just inane. the stupid idea deserved undermining from the opening gun.
ConservativelyLiberal
The far left does not have a lock on the right answer, nor the far right. In fact, I believe that both sides are distracting from the reasonable people stuck in the middle of this mess between the two sides.
You want to say far left, go ahead. Same with far right. After all, they are only words and words can only hurt if the recipient gives them the power to. Me? I can care less just for that reason. All I care is that you want what is right for our nation and the people in it. All I want to hear is that you believe that we are a nation of laws, and that our constitution is the last word in the matter. That no man, woman, business or party are above it.
We all make mistakes John, it is just that some people get a twisted sense of joy of rubbing it in just to score some points that I have no idea of who is keeping track of. You have said that you no longer support this administration and what it is doing. You are taking both sides to task, as it should be. That is good enough for me, as it should be for anyone else here.
Peace.
cleek
“far left” is a Republican slur. it’s a way to preemptively discredit an opponent by claiming he’s so far out of the mainstream that he’s dangerous and probably a card-carrying al-Quommunist. and by the same token, it’s way of pretending that you are right in the reasonable center.
Chad N. Freude
They can misdirect, confuse, and distract from the real point of the discussion.
“When I use a word”, Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
Davebo
When Andrew Sullivan and Rod Dreher are members of the “far left” one wonders how long we have to wait for another post on Cindy Sheehan.
ConservativelyLiberal
When I hear a word, it means what what I choose it to mean. No more or no less…
Me…
The Other Steve
Actually I think the Democrats should go along with the September timeline.
I’ve noticed that the assrockets of the world have been engaging in mostly taunting of the Democrats, trying desperately to get them to pull out the soldiers now.
Why? I think it’s clear, that their subconsciousness now realized Iraq is lost. They’re just clapping harder, because they are afraid to admit they were wrong.
They recognize that there is nothing we can do in Iraq to turn it around. It’s lost. But again, they are afraid of admitting that and losing the argument.
So they’re desperately looking for a way out, and they want to blame the Democrats.
This whole thing is pretty pathetic. I hate the fact that our soldiers are over there dying for Bush’s unwillingness to admit a mistake. But I’m more than willing to let Bush and his cronies hang themselves with the rope they made.
The Other Steve
I should add… While I think the Democrats should wait for September, because of the political implications. I think they should also be honest and forthright, and say so.
“Fine, we’re going to wait for September. Why? Because this thing ain’t going to go any better, and we want you to look like fucking asshats.”
Set it up, so that after September there will be no more friedman units. Start talking about it now.
Chad N. Freude
ConservativelyLiberal –
If the speaker and the listener choose to give different meanings to the same words, we end up with talk radio. Without agreed meaning we have misdirection, confusion, and distraction. But I repeat myself.
Zifnab
Excuse my mild confusion, but do we know of any political websites that don’t post vocal, vehement, and constant outrage on a regular basis?
I mean, no offense, but unless its an Open Thread or commentary on your cat, I think I can count the number of soft-spoken, mild-mannered, and congenial posts on one hand.
The terms “far-left” and “liberal” are flung around like insults by these guys, as a way to dismiss your opinion. So when Conservative Commentator A says, “You only say that cause you are far left” and Reality-Based Commentator B says, “Move out of your mom’s basement and catch up with the times,” it’s not because B just happens to be in a vocal, vehement, or outraged fringe section of society. If you’re not vocal, vehement, and outraged by now then frankly, there’s something wrong with you.
The Other Steve
Dan Riehl and the 26%ers…
Seriously, you should start listening to them. They’re running around like chicken little talking about how everybody who points out Iraq is a bad thing hates America.
So maybe on one side you have people accusing you of being an unfeeling bastard. But on the other side you have people accusing you of treason.
Which do you think is worse?
ConservativelyLiberal
I have been called far left by those on the right, and I have been called far right by those on the left. Which is it? In the way that either side defines things, I can be one or the other, but not both. Yet I am both according to these two sides.
Therefore I can care less about words that are meant to demean, insult or intimidate me. Hell, I toss liberal, conservative, moonbat and wingnut around in a salad bowl and what do I get? People.
When you let others define you, you box yourself in. It is like the old line ‘Have you stopped beating your wife?’. You can’t win, so I just ignore it.
Words have the power you give them, no more or no less. In politics, certain words have become insults yet in the end they are only words. Maybe I listen to too much George Carlin. He can say it a hell of a lot better than I can, that is for sure. In the end, both sides are just as much of a problem as all they care to do is promote themselves by comparing how much better they are than those they craft their words to insult.
I guess that is what makes an independent person like myself. I have never cared to let anyone define me. I define myself, and I call bullshit on anyone who tries to define me.
Sacred cows, meet slaughterhouse… ;)
cleek
or, as Jerzy Kosinski put it, in The Painted Bird, (paraphrase from memory): When people claim to know me, I can no longer act freely.
Chad N. Freude
I hate to say this, guys, but this sounds a lot like G. W. Bush.
ConservativelyLiberal
I respectfully disagree Chad. You know a person by their words and actions. George Bush is known, is he not? Now regarding myself, you only know of my words, you know nothing of my actions. How can I let you define me with only my words to go on?
You do not know me, do you? Nice try though… ;)
Also, you have to have a brain that functions to consciously not care what someone says about you. George is blissfully oblivious to what everyone says about him. He could have a lobotomy and he would only get smarter…
Maybe not. I guess they have to find the brain first to do the lobotomy. Oh well, I tried…
Rome Again
While I don’t consider myself to be “far left” per se, I am pissed at Dems for capitulating, and I changed my affiliation from Dem to Independent as a result (before the 2006 election); so, yes, while I don’t like your language, I have to agree with your statement.
ThymeZone
I saw the show, and it was profound. I have changed my mind on impeachment …. I am now for it.
I don’t think I’ll see it, but I support it, and I am going to write my congresscritters and tell them so.
Every sentient citizen should see this Moyers episode. It’s one of the most powerful political arguments you will ever hear.
“Moyers on Impeachment” link. Watch and listen.
Cyrus
Being mad at the Democratic leadership of Congress for not having started impeachment proceedings is a trait still limited to the far left, yes. Probably, at least, but I won’t say definitely. However, being mad at, or at least disappointed in, the Democratic leadership of Congress for not having defunded the war is very close to the majority, mainstream, consensus opinion. If the blogs complaining about it self-identify with the left, well, there are very few political blogs that are centrist and nonpartisan in both name and in fact, so what would you expect?
Rome Again
I would have to agree with that.
D. Broder
Democrats would do well to heed Mr. Hinderaker’s words; if they want political success in the future, it is clearly not in their best interests to hinder in any way their opponents’ policy failures. Should President Bush’s policies break the army, abandon veterans, destroy American cities, and hasten a domestic health care crisis, Democrats will see themselves in a very strong political position as long as they avoid being perceived as sharing responsibility for these tragedies by having lent less than their total support for the policies that brought them about.
Jake
? This is a far left blog? I hope the gnomes of Underpants Media don’t get angry.
Rome Again
Being in support of the unitary executive would be far right then? And by “right” I don’t mean correct.
Define “far left” as completely as you can, Cyrus, and if you can give some examples of people who fall in that category. I’m interested to see what and who that includes.
Rome Again
So it’s better to gain political advantage by allowing policies to fail for the sake of political scoring then it is to care that the policies themselves are working? You’re fucking screwy man. Stop with the politics and start caring about your country, dammit.
Rome Again
That should have read “policies are or aren’t working”… same thing.
Chad N. Freude
Rome –
Your satire detector is failing. “D. Broder” is skewering the real D. Broder.
jg
Keep up the good work John. Just do it LOUDER!!!
Dreggas
This is my new tagline, LOVE IT. Of course I get the same treatment, I am called a righty by the left and a leftie by the right so I just piss everyone off.
Oh and Cindy Sheehan is not far left (egads I am defending her) just look at what she wants to do to taxes etc. She’s ron paul with tits.
To me far left includes members of PETA, those who think Hugo Chavez is the second coming and that Michael Moore is god (I like some of his stuff, most just irritates me). Those who want to ban all firearms (don’t trust those bastards for a minute) and in general those who claim “the man” is always out to get them and that all corporations are TEH EVIL! To be far left is to pretty much be in every single item above. So really there are few on the far left.
The far right really only has one pre-requisite, no brain, that way one can be indoctrinated and fed a steady diet of Kool-aid and war-porn while getting their jesus on.
Cyrus
Well, I think so, yes.
I think you read me wrong. In the process of disagreeing with Bush, Hinderaker and the surge, John Cole referred to (some types of) that disagreement as “far left,” and people proceeded to complain about it. I’m trying to be all conciliatory and shit here, by pointing out that some criticism of Congress comes from the far left, but a lot of it also comes from the center. Maybe I should have quoted his 8:12 a.m. comment instead of just addressing my comment to no one, or chosen a different example of “far left” than impeachment.
Um, just in case this is serious, I think the post you’re replying to wasn’t. The commenter was commenting under the name “D. Broder” and linked to a blog with only one post, by someone with a familiar name. You’ve been DougJ’ed.
Rome Again
It doesn’t matter who or what I was replying to Chad, what matters is the point I made.
jg
I think John’s point was that even the far left, which like the far right can normally be counted on to go along with anything the party says, is upset at the Dems in congress. Its not just the sane folks like us in the middle who are pissed.
Rome Again
Spectral changes happen at the edges first jg.
Rome Again
You know what Cyrus? I don’t consider it my job to wade through fact and fiction and separate the two. Spoof or not, the point was made, and I added my thougthts. Don’t like it? Tough cookies.
Cyrus
Well, if you want to to criticize arguments no one around here believes in and add your thoughts to points that didn’t have too many in the first place… go wild. Personally, I’d consider it a waste of time, but to each his own.
Unless you were taken in but are now embarrassed to admit it? Don’t worry, we’ve all been there. I was fooled several times by spoofs. Or, alternately, you’re only pretending to care about it yourself, and this is all an act?
This blog was so much less confusing when there were still some zealous right-wingers around.
Barry
Chad N. Freude Says:
“Petraeus is playing umpire here, and if he calls a potential win, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see a surge in the polls bigger than the surge in Iraq.”
Petraeus is playing the coach here – his dictates have no meaning for the other side(s), except so much as his team can back them up on the playing field.
I do believe that he’ll call a potential (heavily spun, fraudulent and never to actually happen) win in September, and that there will be at least an uptick in the polls.
However, over the next several months, as it becomes clear that the surge was same old promises of victories which never play out, I expect Bush’s numbers to decline some more.
Tony J
Right here, on your blog. And on Carpetbagger Report, HuffPost, TPM, Glenn Greenwald, Matt Yglesias, Froomkin’s White House Watch columns in the WP, etc, etc. All of which could be honestly described as ‘Progressive’, but none of which could be described as ‘Far Left’ without viewing them through the same distorted lens as used by the Malkins, Coulters and Hannitys of the world, and why would anyone with an ounce of integrity want to do something as stupid and self-defeating as that?
No, John, the real Far Left are pissed off with the Democrats for being a slightly-less-repellent-than-the-GOP tool of Corporate Capitalist Imperialism with no interest in or concern for the welfare of the Working Classes. At least, that’s what I assume they’re saying given that I’ve never actually been on a Far Left blog-site.
Oh put a fucking sock in it, will you. Ascribing anger over the Democratic Party’s capitulation to White House spin on Iraq to the ‘Far Left’ isn’t innocuous, it’s lazy bordering on dishonest.
That’s because ‘we’ tend to be right about a lot of things that you’d rather we’d been wrong about. N’est pas?
Chad N. Freude
That’s Bush’s strategery, poll numbers be damned: Drag it out until the end of his term, then, the moment the next (Dem) president’s hand leaves the swearing-in bible, blame him/her for the mess. We can’t let this go on for the next several (=19) months.
Rome Again
I’m sure I’ve been taking in by spoofs around here more often than not. I get pretty sick of having to watch where I step my foot down, so I don’t. Got it? I’m not afraid to admit I’ve been caught in the spoof-o-rama around here. We all have, I just really don’t fucking care!
ThymeZone
Umpires call plays. Wins are determined on the scoreboard.
We’ve seen the scoreboard. Game over.
ThymeZone
Exactly right, and one of the positive effects of spoof.
When spoof blends in, as it does here, then the characters represented by the handles fade and the content stands out.
It’s a good thing, actually. One of the reasons why I promote spoof (behind the scenes, whereas officially here I am anti-spoof, which is, of course, spoof).
Get it? I know Rome does, but I am not sure about some others here.
jenniebee
Whoops!
Special to Rome: what, did you not read the whole thing before commenting or something?
Rome Again
Jennie, did you not read my post where I addressed this? I already commented on this.
Tax Analyst
Well, there it is…39% IS 50% MORE THAN 26%. 50% & when you ad Joe Liebermann that’s 50% + ONE…So it’s settled, the Nation loves Bush and wants more, more, more of the same, same, same. Surge On, Me Hearties!
THEN –
fixed…
I can’t help it, I’m in a blockquote & paste/strikethrough mood.
OH…and yes, John Hinderhacker is a Total Asswhole (sic)…
Dreggas
fixed.
Tax Analyst
Hmmmm…That IS better…Thanks!
Dreggas
Most welcome.
ConservativelyLiberal
Damn Dreggas, you sound just like me (viewpoint wise). The ‘Sacred cows, meet slaughterhouse…’ was something that came to me the moment I wrote it here, but it states exactly how I feel about it. I am glad you can relate to it too…lol
Being in the middle is tough at times. You kinda feel like the adopted kid in a tight knit family. Tolerated, but not really loved like the rest of the kids are.
I have no problems relating to real conservatives or liberals, but the extremists on either side are complete turn offs. With both parties veering to the extreme, I am finding that there are more people like us out there than there are extremists in either party.
Problem is that both parties are being led around by making the mistake of trying to appease their extremists, and it is only driving more people into the middle. In my opinion, we are ripe for a third party to step in that represents people like us. Not a Green party, not a Socialist party, but a true middle ground party that recognizes that governance is a balancing act, and that compromise is not just a word to spit at.
I like people who agree to disagree, and can be congenial about it. Not run around like the end of the world is imminent. Real Republicans and Democrats used to be able to do this, but they have lost that fine art. Watching the Moyers show on impeachment drove that point home to me. I love my country, warts and all, and I want what is best for it, not for me. I stand for what I want, but if it is not to be, then so be it. I will live on.
I guess that is why I am not offended by the terms wingnut, moonbat, liberal or whatnot. They are only labels that some use to compartmentalize or dismiss others, usually those that they disagree with. In other cases, they are used as hateful slurs. Either way, they do not affect me one bit. They are just words. For some reason, the fact that they do not faze me seems to frustrate those who like to use them. I like that. It puts the power, so to say, back in my hands.
No sacred cows here, just beef…lol ;)