Let The Lessons Begin

As with every American tragedy, we are about to learn all sorts of “lessons” in the aftermath of the VT shootings. And true to form, most of these lessons will be hastily implemented versions of pre-existing agendas, shoddily conceived, and in the long run, more painful than the tragedy itself. It is a uniquely American form of grieving, completely predictable, and equally difficult to stop.

And in case you doubt me, the “lessons” we “learned” from 9/11 have us in Iraq. Think about that for a minute.

Already we can see the wheels turning on some websites, and a thousand bad ideas bloom. To wit, Debbie Schlussel:

Here’s what we know about the murderer of at least 32 students and maimer of at least 28 more at Virginia Tech, today:

* The murderer has been identified by law enforcement and media reports as “a young Asian male.”

* The Virginia Tech campus has a very large Muslim community, many of which are from Pakistan (per terrorism investigator Bill Warner).

* Pakis are considered “Asian.”

* There were 2 attacks at least half a mile apart.

* There have been at least two bomb threats to this campus in the last two weeks.

**** UPDATE: Shootings appear professional, says expert; VTU Alum on school’s “Asian” Population; 2nd Amenment-Free Campus/VTU lobbied against students having guns on campus for personal protection ****

**** UPDATE #2: The shooter has now been identified as a Chinese national here on a student visa. Lovely. Yet another reason to stop letting in so many foreign students. ****

**** UPDATE #3, 04/17/07: The shooter has now been identified as a South Korean national. ****

As if the status of legal immigration was not screwed up enough, it is about to get a whole lot worse. Not to mention the run of the mill racism and xenopohobia that will serve as the basis for a whole lot of new bad ideas “lessons.”

Another bad idea:

THIS IS AWFUL: “At least 20 people were killed this morning at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and University after a shooting spree at two buildings on the campus.” Nobody seems to know much yet on what happened. These things do seem to take place in locations where it’s not legal for people with carry permits to carry guns, though, and I believe that’s the case where the Virginia Tech campus is concerned. I certainly wish that someone had been in a position to shoot this guy at the outset.

I live and work on a college campus. I simply can not express how bad of an idea it is to permit a population of undeveloped and aggressive young males going through tumultuous times in their lives to run around armed to the teeth. In fact, we kind of already saw what happened yesterday, didn’t we? I do not think more gun control would have stopped this yesterday. I really don’t. But only someone with an agenda could look at the massacre yesterday and state that the solution to the problem was “more guns.”

So prepare yourselves. Watch out for the “lessons” coming this week. Make sure you don’t learn them.

*** Update ***

We have a winner:

[Ross] Eugene Volokh wonders how soon is too soon to start the inevitable post-Virginia Tech dialogue about gun control, and Joshua Claybourn chimes in. Obviously, this kind of meta-debate is somewhat academic, since nobody – from the New York Times editorial page to Michelle Malkin – seems interested in waiting even a day before trotting out their hobby-horses. I’m extremely skeptical, though, that there’s actually anything significant to learn about gun policy from yesterday’s violence: Extreme, unpredictable events like this one seem like precisely the kind of thing that shouldn’t dictate lawmaking decisions (though of course they inevitably do). If there’s a case for gun control, it’s in the daily run of shooting deaths that don’t make the front page; if there’s a case against gun control, it’s in the daily run of crimes deterred by an armed citizenry (and in more abstract questions of personal liberty), not in the faint chance that a kid with a conceal-and-carry permit might have taken the Virginia killer down.

Ross Douthat, blogging for Sullivan.






218 replies
  1. 1
    Jake says:

    I just read he was described as a “loner,” and no one knows much about him. Lessons:

    People who like to spend time alone should be forced to engage in social activities. This will make them happy and they won’t hurt anyone.

    People who refuse to socialize should be regarded with deep suspicion and kept under close observation in case they try to hurt someone.

    People who refuse to socialize and object to close observation should be sent somewhere far away a la Brave New World so they can’t hurt anyone.

  2. 2
    Andrew says:

    If Asians are outlawed, only outlaws will have Asians.

  3. 3
    Zifnab says:

    But… but… but… Asians are the good minority.

  4. 4
    Buck says:

    Are armed Professors a bad idea?

  5. 5
    Zifnab says:

    I do not think more gun control would have stopped this yesterday. I really don’t. But only someone with an agenda could look at the massacre yesterday and state that the solution to the problem was “more guns.”

    Ultimately, I have to agree with you. I’m not sure what restrictions anyone could suggest – except perhaps ‘no guns for anyone, anywhere, at any time’ – that would have kept this kid from getting his hands on a piece. I mean, he was a college student, most likely without a criminal record or any detectable level of psychological issues. His slate was clean and there was no way to single him out as someone who shouldn’t be allowed to have a gun, at least before the shootings.

    The real “lesson” that should be learned isn’t “let’s give everyone a firearm” or “FEAR ASIANS!!!” but perhaps a few more cops on campus and a little more public counciling for troubled kids wouldn’t hurt things. Also, perhaps when you’ve got a shooting on one side of campus, you could politely inform everyone on the other side of campus to look out for a guy running around with a gun and nothing to lose.

    Seriously, that’s the real flaw in all of this. They had two hours to get the word out that a gunman was loose in the campus area, and by the time shooting spree #2 happened, people were still epically uninformed.

  6. 6
    The Other Steve says:

    I have the answer! Guaranteed.

    Send Glenn Reynolds to gitmo!

    Granted, I don’t know what it would have done to stop the shooting, but it sure would make millions of Americans feel better.

  7. 7
    The Xsociate says:

    Thus endth the lesson. Great post.

    Andrew: LMAO!

  8. 8
    Pb says:

    Heh. Debbie Schlussel is a pathetic xenophobe.

    * The murderer has been identified by law enforcement and media reports as “a young Asian male.”
    * The Virginia Tech campus has a very large Muslim community, many of which are from Pakistan (per terrorism investigator Bill Warner).
    * Pakis are considered “Asian.”

    Ooo, Paki Muslims, be afraid! Go ace detective Schlussel!

    * There were 2 attacks at least half a mile apart.
    * There have been at least two bomb threats to this campus in the last two weeks.

    TERROR! Paki Muslim terror bomb threats! Ph33r!

    **** UPDATE #2: The shooter has now been identified as a Chinese national here on a student visa. Lovely. Yet another reason to stop letting in so many foreign students. ****

    Ok, so you were totally full of shit on that Paki Muslim scaremongering bullshit… conclusion? Foreigners still bad! Ph33r!

    **** UPDATE #3, 04/17/07: The shooter has now been identified as a South Korean national.

    South Korean? What, not a terrorist or a commie?! Oh well, still a ‘foreigner’, right? Ph33r!

  9. 9
    RSA says:

    Are armed Professors a bad idea?

    Recalling Henry Kissinger’s observation that the reason university politics is vicious is because the stakes are so small, and considering that professors are more likely to have delusions of grandeur than any other group of people I can think of, I’d say yes, it’s a bad idea.

  10. 10
    Remfin says:

    Sooo if you believe the current info coming out (not that it’s been stellar so far…) he may have been a right-wing wacko who bought a handgun legally

    I eagerly await an “*** UPDATE 4: Finally someone is doing something about the liberal problem in this country”, or an equivalent. I mean you absolutely KNOW it will happen at some other sites.

  11. 11
    Andrew says:

    I have the answer! Guaranteed.

    Send Glenn Reynolds to gitmo!

    I can improve on this already good solution:
    Duct tape Jonah Goldberg to Reynolds first.

  12. 12
    The Other Steve says:

    Seriously, that’s the real flaw in all of this. They had two hours to get the word out that a gunman was loose in the campus area, and by the time shooting spree #2 happened, people were still epically uninformed.

    I think that’s fucking bullshit. They did try to spread the word. there was a broadcast that went out about the shooting in the dorm.

    But the first shooting appeared to be a domestic thing… two students. Not a mass rampage.

    When I was in college we had a number of similar things happen. Similar sized campus too. We even had some bizarre mob-style execution killings. We had a professor killed by a student. We had basketball players involved in a shootout at Burger King. None of these resulted in mass rampages across campus.

    you can’t blame the cops. From what I see, they responded in a professional manner.

  13. 13

    Anyone who has a clue would know Pakistanis are not “Asian”. Duh!

    Even some folks who actually qualify as Asians aren’t considered Asian by the Chinese, Koreans, Japanese and others.

  14. 14
    p.lukasiak says:

    well, that’s better John.

    I only have one comment — the “search for meaning” is simple human nature. its been around well before recorded history (“Our crops are failing…the Earth Mother must be angry with us.”)

    But in a modern, rational society like ours, the “normal” reaction would be to search for meaning in this event, realize that it was a senseless massacre by a madman, and move on because there is no “meaning” to be discerned, or lesson to be learned.

    The problem is not the search for meaning itself, its the fact that this tragedy will be exploited to the hilt by the media which is going to fill air time with something — and a large part of that something will be discussions about “meaning” and “lessons” that make no sense. There is no “big picture” here…. nothing substantive to discuss.

  15. 15
    The Other Steve says:

    I can improve on this already good solution:
    Duct tape Jonah Goldberg to Reynolds first.

    That’s not fair to the Duct Tape.

  16. 16
    Jake says:

    To wit Twit: Debbie Schlussel

    Has anyone ever checked to see if DS and Nancy Grace are related? Or is there a factory somewhere that stamps out fair-haired harpies that need to go easy on the Max Factor?

  17. 17
    The Other Steve says:

    Anyone who has a clue would know Pakistanis are not “Asian”. Duh!

    Isn’t Pakistan in Asia?

  18. 18
    Dreggas says:

    I am sure the shooter was also known to listen to Heavy Metal Music and played a lot of Dungeons and Dragons.

  19. 19
    p.lukasiak says:

    you can’t blame the cops. From what I see, they responded in a professional manner.

    sorry, but if there is a shooting in a building, “professional” cops seal the building and find the shooter (or at least the weapon.)

    But it would be wrong to imply some kind of ’cause and effect’ interpretation on the failure of “the cops”. Allowing the killer to escape after the first killings was simple unprofessional and indicative of serious problems in VT’s readiness to deal with security issues — but the massacre itself has to be treated as an entirely separate event.

  20. 20
    JoeBob says:

    Ok, lets look at the real problems here – FOREIGN NATIONALS.

    1. 911 – where where the pilots who flew the planes into the WTC trained? – IN FLORIDA on STUDENT VISA’s

    2. VT – some guy goes nuts and kills 33 people – STUDENT VISA

    3. One of the top Iraqi chemical weapons people – STUDENT VISA trained in the US

    4. American High Tech jobs gone because others do it cheaper – H1B worker Visa

    5. Going to grad school at a State run public institution and can’t get an assistantship even though you pay taxes in that state why, because, and I paraphrase a specific top 30 graduate department office –

    “we need to be diverse and have an international population of student, but the only way to keep them here on STUDENT VISA’s is to show a certain level of income which is provided by the assistantship” as such international students are given priority over US Citizens…

    Drive by your local gas station, see all those people standing around looking for work – ILLEGAL ALIENS…

    When is this country going to wake the f*** up and realize that we are not the melting pot of the 20th century and that all these ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS, H1B’s, and FOREIGN STUDENTS are ruining our quality of life and our country in general. The evidence is there, lost jobs, lost lives, lost wages, lower standard of living.

    We are slowly becoming the third world country where these people are coming from and our leaders will do nothing to stop it. Special interest is dominating Capitol Hill, primarily in the form of big corporations. Big corporations love H1B’a because ith cuts their bottom line by roughly 2/3rds and means more money for them.

    If this country sucks so bad to foreigners, why do they come here for college? Because our colleges are the BEST and they know it. They come here and learn from us and take the information back home an use it against us in the form of terror or taking our jobs. Why can’t people see this?

    If we would simply deny all foreigners immediate access to our education system unless they come here first, establish themselves as a LEGAL part of the community by working for a couple of years and obtaining their Green Card, then, maybe, if they are an outstanding citizen, we let them in to our schools just like any other American. If we force them to submit to the pressure that our own American students have to go through by working flipping burgers to pay for college, maybe thet would think twice about the free rides we continue to give them. This would allow AMERICAN students to get the education they deserve. Maybe this would put us back on top.

    We make it way to easy to come into thic country and get an education which is ultimately used against us. University presidents want diversity, well look where diversity got us at VT.

  21. 21
    Buck says:

    Recalling Henry Kissinger’s observation that the reason university politics is vicious is because the stakes are so small, and considering that professors are more likely to have delusions of grandeur than any other group of people I can think of, I’d say yes, it’s a bad idea.

    Armed janitors maybe?
    I agree that “more guns” are not the answer but it seems to me that one more would have been nice to have.

  22. 22
    jnfr says:

    There will always be some number of crazy people around, and it’s nearly impossible to stop someone who is committed to violence and mayhem. Of course it’s a tragedy, but tragedy is not unusual in life.

  23. 23
    John Cole says:

    Allowing the killer to escape after the first killings was simple unprofessional and indicative of serious problems in VT’s readiness to deal with security issues—but the massacre itself has to be treated as an entirely separate event.

    You are asking for the impossible. There is no university campus that I can think of where someone could not escape after a random shooting in a dorm at 7 am.

    You are simply asking for a level of security that does not exist outside of dorms in major cities. Additionally, you are asking for a level of security that students, faculty, and everyone involved would not accept, particularly on campuses like mine and VT’s.

  24. 24
    dslak says:

    VT – some guy goes nuts and kills 33 people – STUDENT VISA

    Actually, the VT shooter was a legal permanent resident whose family had been living in the US since 1992. Don’t let facts get in the way of your anti-furriner agenda, however. God knows that, if anything, this tragedy proves [insert non-sequitor political agenda here].

  25. 25
    Steve M says:

    JoeBob:

    2. VT – some guy goes nuts and kills 33 people – STUDENT VISA

    Err…I might have misread this, but the kid was not here on a student visa. He was a legal resident and had a Green Card. Grew up outside of DC, I think the Trib piece said.

    And, from what I recall, the majority of mass murders in this country have been committed by citizens..Columbine, University of Texas in the 60’ss, Kansas, etc…

  26. 26
    demimondian says:

    There’s an excellent diary about the virtues of an armed-to-the-teeth society here.

  27. 27
    Jake says:

    2. VT – some guy goes nuts and kills 33 people – STUDENT VISA

    Let’s see. Killer came here in 1992, 15 years ago. He’s 23 so he would’ve been eight.

    Holy shit, you mean Debbie Schussel made a mistake?

    Lesson learned: Don’t rely on “facts” relayed by venom spitting harridans.

  28. 28
    demimondian says:

    JoeBob — Timothy McVeigh. ‘Nuff said.

    (By the way, who are you when you’re using your usual pseudo, and where in heaven’s name did you find that particular piece of xenophobic trash?)

  29. 29
    Wilfred says:

    Schlussel is representative of a great sense of disappointment on the right that the VT shooter was not a Muslim; a Palestinian would have been good – an Iranian, the equivalent of winning the lottery. The letdown is audible – by tomorrow no one on the right will give a shit about this.
    BTW, in England Pakistanis are referred to as south Asians or simply Asians.

  30. 30
    Richard 23 says:

    Lesson learned: don’t turn on the tv (CNN to be specific) when a tragedy like this happens. It was the shallowest, stupidest coverage I’ve ever seen. The nifty seizure inducing “Massacre” graphic, the cheesy, sad music, the unfathomable tangents, the info-free coverage. I rate it at about three barf bags.

    I’d read about the story a couple places on the internet. CNN had nothing more to add other than the crappy music and stupid flashy graffixx.

    Next time: leave the TV off.

  31. 31
    les says:

    4. American High Tech jobs gone because others do it cheaper – H1B worker Visa

    Sorry, JoeBob, but you’re an idiot. H1B’s exist because without foreign techies, there aren’t enough to do the work. Perhaps you think the American high-tech industry should move en mass overseas? The number of foreign born students in science and engineering grad schools is due to the lack of interest and preparation in science in the U.S. “Cheaper?” Lemme guess–you are: creationist? generally anti-science? doubt global warming? think science teaching standards should be determined by polls of idiots like yourself? Congratulations! YOU caused the problem!!!

  32. 32
    Paul L. says:

    Any support for a law that any Foreign National caught in possession of a firearm is automatically deported?

    As for Gun Control, I’ll go as far as banning firearms from English, Black Studies and Woman Womyn Studies majors. I am open to other departments such as Political Science.
    Va. Tech: Gunman student from S. Korea

    Police identified the classroom shooter as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a senior from South Korea who was in the English department at Virginia Tech and lived in a different dorm on campus. Cho committed suicide after the attacks, and there was no indication Tuesday of any possible motive.

    Quote Of The Day

    “Here’s a question for all the damp, limp, hand-wringing ninnies who think guns should be banned on college campuses. If you were in a classroom with Cho Seung-Hui at the door, trying to force his way in so he could shoot you and eight or nine of your friends, would you want a gun or not?

    “Right.”

  33. 33
    ThymeZone says:

    You’ll never guess where I heard the best “analysis” of this event so far.

    From none other than the redoubtable Tucker Carlson, speaking this morning on MSNBC tv.

    Paraphrasing (since I have no transcript), he said basically that what we don’t need right now is pundits and other rushing to microphones to tell us what this event means. What it means is, something terrible happened, and it’s an awful thing. That’s it. The end.

    While the source of this wisdom is surprising to say the least (since Carlson is one of those I would expect to be rushing to tell us what this “means”), I can’t improve on the value of what he said. It’s exactly perfect, and right.

  34. 34
    Zifnab says:

    You are simply asking for a level of security that does not exist outside of dorms in major cities. Additionally, you are asking for a level of security that students, faculty, and everyone involved would not accept, particularly on campuses like mine and VT’s.

    That’s fine, but is it too much to send out email messages and notify as many professors as you can on campus to inform their students? Is it too much to get a few extra squad cars out on campus after the first round of shoots took place?

    I understand you can’t keep a school in lockdown mode 24/7, but when you’ve got a guy with a gun running around near campus, would it hurt to at least try and tighten up security for the day?

  35. 35
    DougJ says:

    What if we outlawed kimchi and karaoke on college campuses? Wouldn’t that put an end to this kind of thing?

    I’m very afraid that this is going to turn into an anti-international student thing.

  36. 36
    JoeBob says:

    I will agree with many of you about the other murders being domestic in nature, and after further reading, yes he was a Green Card – my fault for not having all the facts….

    This still does not negate the fact that our Universities are promoting international diversity at the expense of the American student which in turn hurts the American worker.

    Hell, it doesn’t even need to be on campus. Drive by your local Home Depot at 7:00 am with a pickup truck and watch the Illegals try to climb in

    Wake up america

  37. 37
    ed says:

    Over 80 people are killed by guns in the U.S. every day. Apparently you have to do about a third of them as homicides in one batch just to have a worthwhile story.
    Just as Biblical stoning and female hat wearing no longer meet current religious mores, the well organized militia needs of the 18th Century no longer justify the free access to firearms provided for in the Second Amendment.

  38. 38
    Zifnab says:

    The nifty seizure inducing “Massacre” graphic, the cheesy, sad music, the unfathomable tangents, the info-free coverage. I rate it at about three barf bags.

    Only if you load your barf into garbage bags.

  39. 39
    Pooh says:

    She didn’t really say “Pakis” did she?

    From what I understand, that’s considered something of a slur. Not quite the N word, but more like “darkie” or something like that.

    Stay classy, Debbie.

  40. 40

    Virginia Tech Massacre: The Wild West Mentality

    John Cole: I live and work on a college campus. I simply can not express how bad of an idea it is to permit a population of undeveloped and aggressive young males going through tumultuous times in their lives to

  41. 41
    Krista says:

    Schlussel is representative of a great sense of disappointment on the right that the VT shooter was not a Muslim; a Palestinian would have been good – an Iranian, the equivalent of winning the lottery. The letdown is audible – by tomorrow no one on the right will give a shit about this.

    I have to say, that when the ethnicity of the killer was still unknown, I caught myself thinking, “Christ, I hope it isn’t anybody of Middle Eastern descent, or else certain people will take that and run like hell with it.”

  42. 42
    LITBMueller says:

    Debbie is just a dirty pirate hooker. For example, she wrote in response to someone:

    ALMOST ALL OF THESE SUCH INCIDENTS HAVE BEEN COMMITTED BY MUSLIMS.

    Yeah, Muslims like….Charles Carl Roberts (the guy who shot the Amish school children), Richard Farley (amd other disgruntled employees like him), the Columbine killers (Klebold & Harris), Kyle Huff, Jeff Weise, Michael McDermott, Buford Furrow, Larry Ashbrook, Andrew Golden & Mitchell Johnson, Colin Ferguson, Kenneth French, George Hennard, Ronald Simmons, James Huberty, Edward Allaway, Jim Jones, John List, Richard Speck, and Charles Jospeh Whitman.

    Clearly, the Muslims are behind it all…

    Thanks, Debbie!

  43. 43
    JoeBob says:

    To Les

    You need to get your facts straight…

    I was a “hi tech” worker at one of the largest employers in the world (GE) who was laid off because the companies IT policy was stated by the CIO as no programmer jobs were to be domestic because it was too expensive and that all this work was to be outsourced to India. In addition, we had a rotating door of H1B’s come through to train and go back to their country with out jobs. Prior to the layoff we had 48 people in our department and 12 were laid off. After the layoff we had 52 people in the department of which 14 were in India because their cost was 1/5th of what an American workers costs.

    H1B is a joke. It’s a way for large companies to get cheaper labor at the expense of the American worker and kids today are getting smarter and realizing that there is no future in Computer Science because there are NO jobs to be had since the H1B’s are a cheaper higher than they are. Hence, why get a degree in CS????

    In addition, after the layoff, I went back to Grad School and couldn’t get an assistantship for the reasons stated. Foreign students had PRIORITY over American students. It was clearly stated to me by the Grad School. I had the campus Ombudsman check into it for me and he returned the EXACT same answer. So I have been through this in both the professional and educational realm.

    Now I am sure you will say this is because my work sucks or my grades suck or something along that line. I graduated a 60 hour masters program in 15 months with a 3.85 GPA, I am gainfully employed right now making over 100K per year, and I am 40 years old. So think what you will or say what you will but this is reality pal, and until it hits you, you won’t understand.

  44. 44
    Mr Furious says:

    “Here’s a question for all the damp, limp, hand-wringing ninnies who think guns should be banned on college campuses. If you were in a classroom with Cho Seung-Hui at the door, trying to force his way in so he could shoot you and eight or nine of your friends, would you want a gun or not?

    Somebody do a statistical analysis of the liklihood of that event unfolding during ANYbody’s lifetime versus the chance of a bad outcome when 10 people in any given classroom are packing.

    Fucking idiotic.

    All these douchebags who are fantasizing about vigilante take-downs (none of whom actually probably carry weapons, BTW) have ample opportunity to be armed and shooting people if they want it. It’s called enlisting.

    Who are the “damp, limp, hand-wringing ninnies” now?

  45. 45
    Krista says:

    As for Gun Control, I’ll go as far as banning firearms from English, Black Studies and Woman Womyn Studies majors.

    You were dropped on your head as a child, weren’t you?

  46. 46
    Tsulagi says:

    I do not think more gun control would have stopped this yesterday. I really don’t. But only someone with an agenda could look at the massacre yesterday and state that the solution to the problem was “more guns.”

    I’d say that’s fairly accurate. The idea that yesterday’s incident or future ones at Virgina Tech (or any other university) could be solved by students carrying weapons and all encouraged to do so is insane.

    I own firearms. Even my sister owns weapons. Just about everyone in my family has for generations. And speaking of Ozarks in the previous post comments, there is one branch of my family that has lived in the Ozarks in MO forever. Think there is an insurgency problem in Iraq? Try going into the Ozarks with the intention of confiscating their weapons or probably even just registration.

    Allowing all the students in a school to carry arms would be like giving cars to elementary school children and telling them to drive themselves to school and soccer practice. Way too large of a number of students in a university wouldn’t have a clue about the weapon they were carrying or judgment in using one. They’d be far more knowledgeable about using cell phones.

    Can just see it on a fully armed Virginia Tech (or any college) campus. A dumbass decides to have a little fun in a crowded area. Pops off a round into the air or just makes a loud bang. Everyone pulls their toys. Someone “sees” something bad that they don’t really see. Starts shooting. Someone else starts shooting. Everyone starts shooting. That may solve overcrowding or wait lists for universities, but I think there could be a better way.

  47. 47
    Mr Furious says:

    Broadcast email from the admin at my college where I work:

    Dear Faculty and Staff,
    The tragedy at Virginia Tech weighs heavily on all. The sorrow and concern that we share commingles with questions about our own readiness and approach to any kind of crisis here at WCC. Thursday, at 3:30 in LA 275, we will hold an informal presentation on this matter for any who are available and interested. *********l will lead this presentation. It is our intent to continue to organize future reviews of such procedures.

    Here’s where the cold reality sets in…Do you know what weighs heavily on my mind today? My overwhelming collections of deadlines here at the college and in my freelance work. Knowing my baby might keep me up all night and screw me.

    Worrying about getting shot outside my campus office? Not so much. Overwhelming grief for folks in Blacksburg? Not even. Yeah, when I am thinking about it, it’s a shame. But I have to get on with my already complicated life.

    I suspect my situation is normal, and people who are overly obsessed with this situation are the ones with problems.

  48. 48
    ThymeZone says:

    H1B is a joke. It’s a way for large companies to get cheaper labor at the expense of the American worker

    As a high tech worker at about the same pay grade that you are at, let me ask this question without prejudice, please:

    How does an American company compete when it has to hire workers who make five times what other workers would get paid to do the same work? Other workers who WILL get hired by other companies and perform their work at a discount, and do the work well?

    I have no particular interest in supporting the offshoring of my job …. but I don’t understand how you call this simple economic imperative “a joke.”

    How is it a joke? Do we envision a partitioned world in which some people get x and some 5x for the same work, and everybody is happy? Because I don’t think that world exists any more.

  49. 49
    AkaDad says:

    I think we should provide more security on college campuses by giving Blackwater USA no-bid contracts.

  50. 50
    DougJ says:

    JoeBob, you seem more anti-immigrant than I’m inclined to be. But you’re right that American born high-tech workers are victimized by taking in to many high-tech workers from other countries.

  51. 51
    metalgrid says:

    I am gainfully employed right now making over 100K per year, and I am 40 years old.

    So wait, you’re gainfully employed and making well above the median income. So H1B folks that took your old job to make a lot less than 100k a year didn’t have a negative effect on your career. And you’re complaining about this?

  52. 52
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Wake up america

    America is starting to wake up. See the 2006 midterm elections, for example.

    Meanwhile, Freepers and LGFers are masturbating over this guy’s “kill ratio.” This on top of the usual heap of racism, xenophobia, and “teh terrists–og noes!” hand-wringing from the wingnut masses.

    Fuck all of them.

  53. 53
    Paul L. says:

    All these douchebags who are fantasizing about vigilante take-downs (none of whom actually probably carry weapons, BTW) have ample opportunity to be armed and shooting people if they want it. It’s called enlisting.

    Because no private citizen has ever stopped a criminal with a firearm.
    Mass murderers v. armed citizens
    Armed Citizen

    BTW, I was enlisted in the Navy for 6 years and never had the opportunity to shoot people.

  54. 54
    Mr Furious says:

    I love how a kid who came here from South Korea when he was eight, kept is nose clean, grew up and went to college and majored in English has triggered a debate about high-tech workers and immigration reform.

  55. 55
    Dreggas says:

    the well organized militia needs of the 18th Century no longer justify the free access to firearms provided for in the Second Amendment.

    Bullshit. George Bush is walking proof that the second amendment needs to be preserved.

  56. 56
    Jake says:

    Someone “sees” something bad that they don’t really see. Starts shooting. Someone else starts shooting. Everyone starts shooting.

    Just another day on the NYPD?

  57. 57
    p.lukasiak says:

    You are asking for the impossible. There is no university campus that I can think of where someone could not escape after a random shooting in a dorm at 7 am.

    really? Is it too much to ask that on a campus of that size that doors be locked and a guard posted at that hour when a shooting occurs?

    ( I could accept an argument that shutting the building down presents a greater risk to the students inside… but the idea that the building could not be shut down is pretty lame.)

  58. 58
    Jon H says:

    WHAT NOBODY HAS THE BALLS TO ADDRES IS THIS:

    WHY ARE WE LETTING PAKI SHAOLIN NINJAS IN TO THE USA?

  59. 59
    Richard 23 says:

    This still does not negate the fact that our Universities are promoting international diversity at the expense of the American student which in turn hurts the American worker.

    Hell, it doesn’t even need to be on campus. Drive by your local Home Depot at 7:00 am with a pickup truck and watch the Illegals try to climb in

    You may be right, you may be wrong. What the hell does any of this have to do with the VT shooting?

    Way too large of a number of students in a university wouldn’t have a clue about the weapon they were carrying or judgment in using one.

    Anyone who thinks people are suggesting guns be handed out to students with no experience is crazy or dishonest. You need proper training before receiving a concealed carry permit. The same cannot be said of cell phones or whatever else you were ranting about.

    Woman Womyn Studies

    Wow, Paul L. You really fear and loathe chicks, don’t you?

  60. 60
    Mr Furious says:

    BTW, I was enlisted in the Navy for 6 years and never had the opportunity to shoot people.

    You probably had the good fortune of being in the armed forces during more sensible times.

  61. 61
    ThymeZone says:

    Is it too much to ask that on a campus of that size that doors be locked and a guard posted at that hour when a shooting occurs?

    Are you spoofing today, Paul? “A guard be posted?”

    On a 2000+ acre campus, with a community of around 20-30k people spread out all over town?

    Which doors do you lock? Who locks them? Who controls them? Who are you looking for?

    Your blurb ranks among the absolutely stupidest things I have ever seen posted here, unless I misunderstood it.

  62. 62
    Richard 23 says:

    I’m starting to wonder if Paul L. is a loner like this Korean shooter was. Somebody socialize with him before he snaps. Krista?

  63. 63
    capelza says:

    Don’t know about no lessons.

    A question, though. I live in a gun toting, hard drinking stressful culture. You’d think that you’d hear more about shootings by drunk fishermen (walking down the dock, blowing away anyone they see..or walking into one of the local watering holes and having at it), but you don’t. It’s a very stressful environment, especially now that the government is here to help us…

    Why the schools of this country, all ranges of them, have to suffer this. No lesson, just confusion. Is it the hormones and the culture?

    And, yeah, if I hear “Asian male” one more time…

  64. 64
    cleek says:

    there is no future in Computer Science because there are NO jobs to be had since the H1B’s are a cheaper higher than they are

    that’s bullshit. there are plenty of CS jobs around.

    i started my current job about a year ago (with 13 years programming experience). since i started, we’ve hired four new programmers – not an H1B among them.

  65. 65
    Mike S says:

    Silly librul. Drunken fratboys are the exactly the type of people who should carry guns.

  66. 66
    ThymeZone says:

    I’m starting to wonder if Paul L. is a loner like this Korean shooter was. Somebody socialize with him before he snaps. Krista?

    Meanwhile, to make p. lukasiak feel better, we are posting a guard.

    Somewhere.

  67. 67
    Richard 23 says:

    Which doors do you lock? Who locks them? Who controls them?

    Prisons house their residents in pods with auto-locking doors. Maybe a prison-like dorm setup would make it easier to do a lockdown in such a situation. I’m just brainstorming here.

  68. 68
    Dreggas says:

    capelza Says:

    Don’t know about no lessons.

    A question, though. I live in a gun toting, hard drinking stressful culture. You’d think that you’d hear more about shootings by drunk fishermen (walking down the dock, blowing away anyone they see..or walking into one of the local watering holes and having at it), but you don’t. It’s a very stressful environment, especially now that the government is here to help us…

    Why the schools of this country, all ranges of them, have to suffer this. No lesson, just confusion. Is it the hormones and the culture?

    And, yeah, if I hear “Asian male” one more time…

    It’s real simple, people have no concept of responsibility with firearms. Unlike those of us raised around guns who know damn well what they do, people see them on TV as the great equalizer complete with Dirty Harry shit.

    Rather than learning a gun of any kind is a weapon and is deadly and that there is no do over they just see it as a means of somehow evening the odds in their sick little minds.

    Same goes for kids who find Daddy’s gun in his drawer and “play with it”. Daddy, thinking he was being a good responsible parent, hid the gun but kids, being curious found it and ended up shooting one of their friends.

    Now had Daddy said “Son this is a gun, this is dangerous, this is not a toy, you do not play with this. When you are older maybe I will show you how to fire it but it is a great responsibility” you get the idea, then maybe the kid wouldn’t have touched said gun, unless of course he was a crackpot as well.

  69. 69
    ThymeZone says:

    I’m just brainstorming here.

    You are on your game today, amigo. Some of the funniest shit I’ve seen in a long time. Kudos.

  70. 70
    The Other Andrew says:

    If I were in one of the Twin Towers when the planes were coming at them, I know that I’d want a parachute, so I could jump out the window. This clearly proves that everyone who works in a high-rise should carry parachutes at all times.

  71. 71
    Tom Hilton says:

    BTW, I was enlisted in the Navy for 6 years and never had the opportunity to shoot people.

    Oh, so that’s what this is about. You’re bummed because you never had the opportunity to shoot people.

  72. 72
    The Other Steve says:

    really? Is it too much to ask that on a campus of that size that doors be locked and a guard posted at that hour when a shooting occurs?

    That’s a ridiculous expectation.

  73. 73
    Zifnab says:

    there is no future in Computer Science because there are NO jobs to be had since the H1B’s are a cheaper higher than they are

    I wish someone would have told me that before I got one. Does that mean I’m unemployed and just don’t know it?

  74. 74
    Dreggas says:

    cleek Says:

    that’s bullshit. there are plenty of CS jobs around.

    i started my current job about a year ago (with 13 years programming experience). since i started, we’ve hired four new programmers – not an H1B among them.

    Have to agree with cleek here, I work in CS and IT and have never had a problem finding a job, still get people trying to lure me away from the one I have to boot.

  75. 75

    What if we outlawed kimchi and karaoke on college campuses? Wouldn’t that put an end to this kind of thing?

    What if we outlawed the students themselves? The technology exists for long-distance learning; surely students would be safer if they went to class online, remaining safely physically ensconced within the fortress-like basements and spare bedrooms of their parents’ homes. After that, no more school shootings. Problem solved.

  76. 76
    dslak says:

    BTW, in England Pakistanis are referred to as south Asians or simply Asians.

    If you’re being nice, anyway. The derogatory/racist term for anyone of South Asian origin in the UK is ‘Paki.’

  77. 77

    Prisons house their residents in pods with auto-locking doors. Maybe a prison-like dorm setup would make it easier to do a lockdown in such a situation. I’m just brainstorming here.

    If we send also those students to prison, it might teach them a valuable lesson or two about life. Also, the prison inmates could help them study for their classes.

  78. 78

    VT

    I guess it goes without saying there’s not much I can really add about how unspeakably awful what happened down in Virginia was. I remember when I was a senior in high school, about two months from graduation, when the…

  79. 79
    The Other Steve says:

    H1B is a joke. It’s a way for large companies to get cheaper labor at the expense of the American worker and kids today are getting smarter and realizing that there is no future in Computer Science because there are NO jobs to be had since the H1B’s are a cheaper higher than they are. Hence, why get a degree in CS????

    There’s a lot of jobs out there, and they pay quite well.

    It’s just that having experience in PHP and mySQL doesn’t make you qualified.

  80. 80
    Zifnab says:

    If we send also those students to prison, it might teach them a valuable lesson or two about life. Also, the prison inmates could help them study for their classes.

    Wasn’t this a Simpsons episode?

  81. 81

    I think we should all have to report to a local prison facility. That way, crime would cease to exist outside of prison. Inside prison, you watch your ass. Still, it’s a pretty orderly and well-functioning society that can contain its criminal and non-criminal elements so effectively. (My only concern is if the guards themselves commit crimes, but that can be rectified by confining them to cells as well, when they’re off-duty.)

  82. 82
    Krista says:

    I’m starting to wonder if Paul L. is a loner like this Korean shooter was. Somebody socialize with him before he snaps. Krista?

    I would, but he seems to have serious issues with women womyn, so anything I say might make him angrier.

  83. 83
    The Other Steve says:

    BTW, I was enlisted in the Navy for 6 years and never had the opportunity to shoot people.

    Given your postings here, you really can’t blame your mates for not trusting you to handle live ammunition.

  84. 84

    Wasn’t this a Simpsons episode?

    Was it? Fuck! Those bastards stole my idea, just like the time they had Homer begging everyone in America to send him a small amount of change. (My plan was to ask each and every one of you for a dollar. If only 1 in 100 of you gave me a dollar, I’d accrue 3 million dollars, which would hopefully offset the costs of accosting you all for a dollar via mail, radio, television, telemarketing, and spam.)

  85. 85
    Cyrus says:

    JoeBob Says:
    I will agree with many of you about the other murders being domestic in nature, and after further reading, yes he was a Green Card – my fault for not having all the facts….

    This still does not negate the fact that our Universities are promoting international diversity at the expense of the American student which in turn hurts the American worker.

    So what you’re saying has… absolutely no connection to the Virginia Tech attack, you’re just shoehorning your hateful, reactionary, and completely unrelated agenda into the horrifying incident of the (day/week/month/year). “Hey, everyone, pay attention to me!” Real classy.

    “Here’s a question for all the damp, limp, hand-wringing ninnies who think guns should be banned on college campuses. If you were in a classroom with Cho Seung-Hui at the door, trying to force his way in so he could shoot you and eight or nine of your friends, would you want a gun or not?

    “Right.”

    Yes, because what untrained individuals in the middle of a crowd want in a particular one-in-a-million situation is exactly what we should use to guide public policy. You do realize that “Die Hard” is fiction, right? That a maverick cop never single-handedly took on an entire terrorist organization and won, and if someone had tried, chances are very good it would have been a disaster? Or, to tie it back to the current topic, do you have any argument at all for why the anecdote you made up is any more likely than the one Tsulagi made up? If you do, I really would like to hear it.

    BTW, I was enlisted in the Navy for 6 years and never had the opportunity to shoot people.

    Aww, so this explains it all: Paul L. feels left out and deprived.

  86. 86
    Baby Jane says:

    Wasn’t this a Simpsons episode?

    60 Minutes

  87. 87
    tBone says:

    I have the answer! Guaranteed.

    Send Glenn Reynolds to gitmo!

    I can improve on this already good solution:
    Duct tape Jonah Goldberg to Reynolds first.

    The hell with duct tape. I’m envisioning a huge Katamari-style ball of right-wing pundits.

  88. 88
    poppinfresh says:

    My favorite part of that godawful Schlussel thread is where she repeatedly defends her use of the slur “Paki”, saying its not racist. Whaaaaa?

    What a sad, sad Ann Coulter wannabe.

  89. 89
    dslak says:

    If I were in a running gun battle with terrorists on the streets of a major American city, I would want armories stocked with the latest in personal weaponry and beaucoups of ammo nearby, no matter where in the city I was. Therefore, all major American cities should have such armories widely dispersed and easily available for all.

  90. 90
    Tom Hilton says:

    By the way, PaulL, the people I know who have had to shoot people regarded it more as a necessity than an ‘opportunity’. I’m just saying.

  91. 91
    Wilfred says:

    What if we outlawed the students themselves?

    I’ve brought this up in faculty meetings many times only to be laughed down. Now, however, it has become a safety issue and unless the ‘Arm the Professors Movement’ gets off the ground, I don’t see any alternative.

  92. 92
    Krista says:

    What if we outlawed the students themselves? The technology exists for long-distance learning; surely students would be safer if they went to class online, remaining safely physically ensconced within the fortress-like basements and spare bedrooms of their parents’ homes. After that, no more school shootings. Problem solved.

    Perfect. Or, to go a step farther and keep EVERYBODY safe, we could hook everybody up to a giant computer and feed them via tube, but have them hooked up to something like Second Life. You’d have to really finesse it, though, so that it seems completely and utterly real, and so that people aren’t even aware that they’re NOT in that life. Everybody’d be perfectly and utterly safe and cared for.

    Damn, why does that sound so familiar?

  93. 93
    Jake says:

    Does that mean I’m unemployed and just don’t know it?

    Yes! Illegal immigrants have been putting hallicinogens in the water supply. You only think you’re going to work. In fact you only think you’re using a computer. You only think you’re walking around interacting with other people.
    Welcome to the Matrix.

  94. 94
    Tom in Texas says:

    Anyone who thinks people are suggesting guns be handed out to students with no experience is crazy or dishonest. You need proper training before receiving a concealed carry permit.

    Have you ever lived in a college dorm? They are about the least secure areas on earth. I left my dorm with perhaps half of the possessions I arrived with. The problem, IOW, isn’t necessarily when the guy who knows and understands guns brings one, it’s when his emotionally disturbed neighbor or roommate steals it.

    The entire argument is asinine. I have yet to meet a person in real life who actually agrees that we need to arm students based on yesterday’s events, and I live in Texas. The response from every single person I’ve talked about this with has been:

    “A student shot up the campus.”

    “Why would we want to arm students?”

    The only people advocating more handguns are ideologues and the 1/2 of 1% of the population who care enough to blog obsessively about it. Even (sane) gun rights people realize that now is not an appropriate time to be advocating this.

  95. 95

    60 Minutes

    Bard is for Commie Hippies, though. Every school needs to be doing this, not just the moonbat ones. And not just giving degrees to current prisoners, either. We need to start incarcerating our children when they turn 18, until they get their degrees.

    I, for one, would rather spend 3 or 4 years in jail than pay off my student loans for 30 years, anyway. Financially speaking, you’ve come out way ahead.

  96. 96
    ThymeZone says:

    You only think you’re walking around interacting with other people.

    Welcome to the Matrix Balloon-Juice.

    Heh.

  97. 97
    skip says:

    If some suicidal guys can take down the WTC with judicious use of box cutters, it follows that a sole disgruntled suicidal loon can sure as hell take a 9mm and massacre schoolmates. Prevention would be easy if we knew what was coming— but we don’t.

    Still, they’ll find a Judas Goat to pin it on. Theye always do.

  98. 98

    Are armed Professors a bad idea?

    Depends — do the grad students get guns too?

    And, from what I recall, the majority of mass murders in this country have been committed by citizens..Columbine, University of Texas in the 60’ss, Kansas, etc…

    Not only that, but one of the Columbine shooters was an air force brat. But I guess that puts a kink in the xenophobia-fest.

  99. 99

    If I were in a running gun battle with terrorists on the streets of a major American city, I would want armories stocked with the latest in personal weaponry and beaucoups of ammo nearby, no matter where in the city I was. Therefore, all major American cities should have such armories widely dispersed and easily available for all.

    That’ll also help you guys out in case I get loose and start a massive zombie infestation this Christmas.

    Ho ho ho, you brainy motherfuckers! Flush the milk and cookies down the fucking toilet, this year I’m coming for what’s in your skulls!

  100. 100

    I’ve brought this up in faculty meetings many times only to be laughed down. Now, however, it has become a safety issue and unless the ‘Arm the Professors Movement’ gets off the ground, I don’t see any alternative.

    At least it’s a PLAN to keep our campuses safe! What’s the gun control moonbats’ alternative plan?

  101. 101
    tBone says:

    Also, the prison inmates could help them study for their classes.

    Meanwhile, the prisoners would be learning right alongside the students. Prisoners get a formal education. Students learn useful skills, such as ‘how to fashion a shiv’ and ‘currency conversion using cigarettes’. It’s a win-win!

  102. 102
    Tom in Texas says:

    I for one would like to thank ZSC for taking a day off out of respect for Virginia Tech’s victims yesterday. It was refreshing to see at least one person wait a day before interjecting their personal agenda into such horror.

  103. 103

    Perfect. Or, to go a step farther and keep EVERYBODY safe, we could hook everybody up to a giant computer and feed them via tube, but have them hooked up to something like Second Life. You’d have to really finesse it, though, so that it seems completely and utterly real, and so that people aren’t even aware that they’re NOT in that life. Everybody’d be perfectly and utterly safe and cared for.

    I want to be hooked up to Half Life instead, please. Or GTA: Vice City. I think that’d be a pretty fun way to spend the rest of my life. Then again, I haven’t tried San Andreas yet. Which one is better?

  104. 104
    Dreggas says:

    poppinfresh Says:

    My favorite part of that godawful Schlussel thread is where she repeatedly defends her use of the slur “Paki”, saying its not racist. Whaaaaa?

    Heh, Only time I ever heard “Paki” used was in some really bad jokes that were definitely off color. It’s as racist as using the term jungle bunny or porch monkey.

  105. 105

    I for one would like to thank ZSC for taking a day off out of respect for Virginia Tech’s victims yesterday. It was refreshing to see at least one person wait a day before interjecting their personal agenda into such horror.

    I have an agenda?

  106. 106
    Dreggas says:

    Zombie Santa Claus Says:

    I want to be hooked up to Half Life instead, please. Or GTA: Vice City. I think that’d be a pretty fun way to spend the rest of my life. Then again, I haven’t tried San Andreas yet. Which one is better?

    Forget those (though I think Vice City would be pretty cool even if it was nothing but bad 80’s flashbacks). Stick me in Neverwinter Nights or perhaps Warhammer 40k DoW.

  107. 107

    Meanwhile, the prisoners would be learning right alongside the students. Prisoners get a formal education. Students learn useful skills, such as ‘how to fashion a shiv’ and ‘currency conversion using cigarettes’. It’s a win-win!

    If those students are Young Republicans, those skills will almost certainly come in handy later.

  108. 108
    jg says:

    Have you ever lived in a college dorm? They are about the least secure areas on earth.

    My dorm at Boston University was tighter than Fort Knox. And the campus police force were like ex SWAT or something. Definately not retired cops on pension. Of course since this kid was a student he would have easily got past the security guards by flashing his student ID.

  109. 109

    Forget those (though I think Vice City would be pretty cool even if it was nothing but bad 80’s flashbacks). Stick me in Neverwinter Nights or perhaps Warhammer 40k DoW.

    Baldur’s Gate: SOA would be pretty cool, too. But only if you could keep choosing your character over again; also, if you could play through the TOB expansion pack.

  110. 110
    Dreggas says:

    Zombie Santa Claus Says:

    Baldur’s Gate: SOA would be pretty cool, too. But only if you could keep choosing your character over again; also, if you could play through the TOB expansion pack.

    Definitely a classic though one could go even further back to Eye of the beholder but that was so linear. As for SoA, nah I tend to like to be able to cast a fireball or five in town when the mood strikes. The Amnish (great name) were a bit uptight regarding magic.

  111. 111
    Wilfred says:

    Damn, why does that sound so familiar?

    Because it is. It’s the triumphal expression of the same fantastic paranoid ideology we’ve had to live with since the 1950’s, the one that led to (short version):

    If ‘Nam falls, there goes Asia.

    In order to save the village, we had to destroy it.

    If we leave Iraq, the terrorists will follow us home.

    The level of danger is orange.

    The only way to stop random acts of gun violence is to make sure everyone has a gun.

    I say Arm the Professors Now. Our theme song: To Sir, with Guns.

  112. 112
    Dreggas says:

    Wilfred Says:

    Damn, why does that sound so familiar?

    Because it is. It’s the triumphal expression of the same fantastic paranoid ideology we’ve had to live with since the 1950’s, the one that led to (short version):…

    pssst…I think she was referring to the Matrix…

  113. 113

    Definitely a classic though one could go even further back to Eye of the beholder but that was so linear. As for SoA, nah I tend to like to be able to cast a fireball or five in town when the mood strikes. The Amnish (great name) were a bit uptight regarding magic.

    You just had to bribe that one dude in the city hall. After that, you could fireball to your heart’s content. Fry the whole fucking town; as long as he got his 5,000 gold or whatever it was, you were okay. The invisible hand of the market will control your chaotic evil sorceror who uses townspeople for target practice.

  114. 114
    mrmobi says:

    Bard is for Commie Hippies, though. Every school needs to be doing this, not just the moonbat ones. And not just giving degrees to current prisoners, either. We need to start incarcerating our children when they turn 18, until they get their degrees.

    You know, for a dead guy, you are really on your game. Bard is a Demislamunofacist institution, I’ve been there. Lovely upstate New York.

    ZSC, I think you just proposed a real solution to the problem of higher education in America. Prison for everyone!

    College degree, no debt. I’m forwarding this idea to Senator Obama.

  115. 115
    Dreggas says:

    Zombie Santa Claus Says:

    You just had to bribe that one dude in the city hall. After that, you could fireball to your heart’s content. Fry the whole fucking town; as long as he got his 5,000 gold or whatever it was, you were okay. The invisible hand of the market will control your chaotic evil sorceror who uses townspeople for target practice

    Really? I just said screw it and began killing everyone until the guards showed up and I killed them too. Eventually they begged me to stop and let me use magic within the city. Or I ran out of guards to kill I forget which. It was worth a lot of experience though.

  116. 116
    Tom in Texas says:

    jg:

    was anyone able to smuggle, say drugs or booze in?

    Dormitories can keep strangers out, for the most part, but they cannot keep one student from going into another’s room. With roommates, hallmates etc., there are too many people in a given room every day.

    We knew which kid on our floor had the case of beer in his fridge. We knew who had the pot. Students would know who brought their handguns from home.

    Arming college freshman is a terrible idea on any day, but on a day like today, it is offensive. It is callous to the point of insulting, and those advocating should be made social pariahs until they learn to respect the emotions and feelings of others.

  117. 117
    Jake says:

    ‘Nother lesson learned:

    If people would study the Bible more and science less,these sort of things wouldn’t happen.

    So we have Little Debbie screaming about p^kis, now this, but still no mention of how this all the fault of gays and lesbians. Sheesh.

  118. 118
    Buck says:

    Just read where the University of Oklahoma locked down due to the fact that some guy was walking around campus carrying an umbrella.

    The man was carrying an umbrella, not a weapon, and he later identified himself to authorities, University of Oklahoma President David Boren said in a statement. Boren initially had said the person was believed to carrying a yoga mat.

    “We now consider the matter closed,” Boren said. “We always want to err on the side of caution in a situation like this.”

    Priceless.

  119. 119
    Face says:

    The shooter has now been identified as a South Korean national. **

    Well, they followed us over here because we DID NOT fight them over there.

    Send in the B-52’s. I want Soeul leveled immediately. I want ground forces in South Korea by the end of the day. Wait…hold on a minute….uh…wha….nevermind.

  120. 120

    You know, for a dead guy, you are really on your game. Bard is a Demislamunofacist institution, I’ve been there. Lovely upstate New York.

    Yeah, I’ve been there too. It’s on my route to New York City and Richmond, VA on December 25. Pretty area. That’s near Kingston and shit, right? Off I-87? Man, what a fucking battlefield. Nobody even thinks about it anymore, but the whole Hudson River Valley used to be one of the bloodiest war zones on the planet. It was like Israel is today or something. You had Mohawks, Abenaki, Algonquins, Dutch, French, British, and Americans all hammering away at one another (in shifts) for centuries. Nowadays, it’s a hornet’s nest of leftism, with towns like New Paltz and states like Vermont gay-marrying people left and right.

    Make of that what you will.

  121. 121
    Sam Hutcheson says:

    But in a modern, rational society like ours, the “normal” reaction would be to search for meaning in this event, realize that it was a senseless massacre by a madman, and move on because there is no “meaning” to be discerned, or lesson to be learned.

    This is terribly wrong. Writing it off as “a senseless massacre by a madman” is a cheap moral caliasthenics in lieu of the difficult work of tracking the actual moral implications of the facts. This kid wasn’t a “madman” any more than Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot was a “monster.” He was a human being, brutally similar and comparable to any other angst-ridden senior English major with poor social skills. He wasn’t an abberation or a mutation and treating him as if he was is more of a coping mechanism for survivors/society than it is a analysis methodology.

    We can’t afford to pretend this kid was anything less than perfectly human. We can’t not look for meaning because we don’t like the swampy backwaters of human nature it leads us to. It’s easier if we do, but it fails in total to assist us in stopping the next massacre from happening.

  122. 122
    Dreggas says:

    Lovely upstate New York.

    I used to live there…it had its moments.

  123. 123
    JoeBob says:

    Distance learning – perfect idea…

    They can attend our universities via satellite and stay in their own countries and shoot each other or strap dynamite to the chests in their class rooms. Works for me…

    Plus, it allows the American student a better opportunity to get a well deserved TAXPAYER funded assistantship versus giving it to some dude from who knows where.

    Plus – no out of state Tuition for those people. It’s a cost savings to our Foreign National Friends…

    Sounds like a plan too me…

    I am deeply distraught by what happened at VA Tech, and while unfortunate, it proved that some nut can walk on to a campus and kill a bunch of people. If you don’t think that terror organizations took note of this then you are extremely foolish. What is to prevent some radical of (insert religeon here) to enroll in another American University, walk into a 400 person lecture hall strapped with dynamite and kill even more.

    Yes, Americans are perfectly capable of this too (See the McVeigh, Witman, Gein comments earlier), but I believe there is a higher probability of this happening again if we continue to let students from radical states that do not think much of America into our schools. Alternatively, we here about car and market bombings overseas everyday. Again, what is to prevent this from happening here? Not too much at present, but if we closely controlled our borders and didn’t let everyone in the probability DECREASES. And, as I understand it, isn’t the demographic of the terrorist a early 20’s to mid 30’s male – right around a college students age isn’t it….hmmmmmmmm

    Call me crazy, a conspiracy theorist, a racist, whatever you want, but I’ll bet you that Osama and all his buddies watch CNN too and are thinking of new ways of killing us using these very simple methods.

  124. 124

    Really? I just said screw it and began killing everyone until the guards showed up and I killed them too. Eventually they begged me to stop and let me use magic within the city. Or I ran out of guards to kill I forget which. It was worth a lot of experience though.

    For some reason I never tried that. Usually, at that point in the game my party was still pretty wimpy, and the Amnish guys were able to take me out. I guess I wasn’t persistent enough, though.

    Could you ever hook up with Jaheira? My game wouldn’t let me. I always just ended up sitting in a field with her, waiting for her to let me know it was okay to make the next move. That’s a little too close to real life for a video game, if you ask me.

  125. 125
    jg says:

    jg:

    was anyone able to smuggle, say drugs or booze in?

    Yup. No one was searched on the way in. Show your student id to the guard behind the glass and he buzzes you in. We actually managed to sneak a quarter keg past them by carrying it in a hockey bag. I still can’t believe they didn’t ask why it took two of us to carry a hockey bag that looked like it contained a barrel. LOL

    As long as you had a student ID and weren’t brandishing a weapon you could get in strapped to the teeth. But there was no chance anyone without a student id could get past the lobby.

  126. 126

    Just read where the University of Oklahoma locked down due to the fact that some guy was walking around campus carrying an umbrella.

    That kind of overreaction is pretty normal after a tragedy like this, though. Weren’t they suspending kids for making paper airplanes and whatnot after Columbine, or am I misremembering that?

  127. 127
    jg says:

    I worked in a few Harvard dorms. They had no security whatsoever. If you watch Good Will Hunting theres a scene where Damon waits for someone to leave the dorm and he walks in the door they opened, (“hold the door please”). I actually worked at that dorm and it is that easy to get in. They didn’t have guards at the doors and some dorms left doors wide open if the weather was nice enough. Keep in mind there is no campus, the school, like BU, is spread out across town and regular people live amongst the dorms and school buildings.

  128. 128
    Paul L. says:

    Tom Hilton Says:
    By the way, PaulL, the people I know who have had to shoot people regarded it more as a necessity than an ‘opportunity’. I’m just saying.

    Mr Furious used the word ‘opportunity’. I was mocking him when I used it.

    All these douchebags who are fantasizing about vigilante take-downs (none of whom actually probably carry weapons, BTW) have ample opportunity to be armed and shooting people if they want it. It’s called enlisting.

    Speak of Mr Furious

    You probably had the good fortune of being in the armed forces during more sensible times.

    You would not believe that at the time if you listened to media.
    85-91 Reagan/Bush I.

  129. 129
    Krista says:

    pssst…I think she was referring to the Matrix…

    Yeah. She was. :)

  130. 130

    Distance learning – perfect idea…

    They can attend our universities via satellite and stay in their own countries and shoot each other or strap dynamite to the chests in their class rooms. Works for me…

    Moments like this make me question the whole premise of spoofing. Am I helping the situation by making fun of these guys, or hurting it by giving them newer and crazier ideas to trumpet? Is that, too, helpful? Or is JoeBob a spoof, also? (If that’s the case, well-played, sir.)

    Plus, it allows the American student a better opportunity to get a well deserved TAXPAYER funded assistantship versus giving it to some dude from who knows where.

    Attica, if you take the rest of my proposals as seriously as this one.

    Plus – no out of state Tuition for those people. It’s a cost savings to our Foreign National Friends…

    If we incarcerate all these kids, we can put them to work on road crews and in metal shops when they’re not in class. That’s got to be more socially rewarding than the kind of crap most people did when they were in school.

    I am deeply distraught by what happened at VA Tech, and while unfortunate, it proved that some nut can walk on to a campus and kill a bunch of people. If you don’t think that terror organizations took note of this then you are extremely foolish. What is to prevent some radical of (insert religeon here) to enroll in another American University, walk into a 400 person lecture hall strapped with dynamite and kill even more.

    I don’t know, but just to be on the safe side I think we’d better start rounding up those Pastafarians now. If they walk around dressed as pirates, it’s only a matter of time until radical splinter sects turn to actual piracy as a means of spreading their evil ideology across the nation.

    Yes, Americans are perfectly capable of this too (See the McVeigh, Witman, Gein comments earlier), but I believe there is a higher probability of this happening again if we continue to let students from radical states that do not think much of America into our schools.

    We must strike now, while South Korea is distracted by North Korea!

    Alternatively, we here about car and market bombings overseas everyday. Again, what is to prevent this from happening here? Not too much at present, but if we closely controlled our borders and didn’t let everyone in the probability DECREASES. And, as I understand it, isn’t the demographic of the terrorist a early 20’s to mid 30’s male – right around a college students age isn’t it….hmmmmmmmm

    Good point. Another excellent reason to incarcerate American youths. That way, we can’t possibly have any more John Walker Lindhs strolling out of this country and into the welcoming arms of jihadists.

    Call me crazy, a conspiracy theorist, a racist, whatever you want, but I’ll bet you that Osama and all his buddies watch CNN too and are thinking of new ways of killing us using these very simple methods.

    Call me a spoof, but I agree with you.

  131. 131
    RSA says:

    The only way to stop random acts of gun violence is to make sure everyone has a gun.

    I agree; this would lead to completely predictable acts of gun violence.

  132. 132
    Andrew says:

    I agree; this would lead to completely predictable acts of gun violence.

    We could have some sort of schedule too. I could shoot someone on the first Wednesday of the month, you’d get to shoot on the 2nd Tuesday.

  133. 133
    Dreggas says:

    Zombie Santa Claus Says:

    Could you ever hook up with Jaheira? My game wouldn’t let me. I always just ended up sitting in a field with her, waiting for her to let me know it was okay to make the next move. That’s a little too close to real life for a video game, if you ask me.

    Nah, she got really pissed over the fact that I liked the Drow Chick.

  134. 134
    Mr Furious says:

    My favorite part of that godawful Schlussel thread is where she repeatedly defends her use of the slur “Paki”, saying its not racist. Whaaaaa?

    It’s just an abbreviation! Like when I type “Chink” to save keystrokes instead of “Chinese”

  135. 135
    Wilfred says:

    Boren initially had said the person was believed to carrying a yoga mat.

    In the hands of a merciless terrorist even something as sacred as a yoga mat becomes a lethal instrument of death. Don’t even think about tea doilies, or linen handkerchiefs with starched points. Bastards.

  136. 136

    Nah, she got really pissed over the fact that I liked the Drow Chick.

    That Drow is nuts. Jaheira would make a much better girlfriend. She’s way hotter, too.

  137. 137
    Dreggas says:

    Yes, Americans are perfectly capable of this too (See the McVeigh, Witman, Gein comments earlier), but I believe there is a higher probability of this happening again if we continue to let students from radical states that do not think much of America into our schools.

    Does that mean we can start banning students from the midwest or parts of the south where they believe the Earth is only 6000 years old?

  138. 138
    Dreggas says:

    Zombie Santa Claus Says:

    That Drow is nuts. Jaheira would make a much better girlfriend. She’s way hotter, too.

    Just play Neverwinter Nights 2. Since it was made by some of the same people who worked for black isle back when Baldur’s Gate came out you can definitely see that they were channeling Jaheira when they added the druid elf chick to NWN 2. Of course they also made the “romance” so easy that even if you never took the druid chick with you you still (if your character was male) scored with her before the big battle.

  139. 139
    Pooh says:

    I would, but he seems to have serious issues with women womyn, so anything I say might make him angrier.

    Is that the Canadan spelling?

  140. 140
    Mr Furious says:

    Paul, I wasn’t referring to you specifically when I made that comment, but if the shoe (or boot) fits, feel free to slip it on.

    I am referring to the big, bad dirty Harry wannabes with fantasies of being the hero in a bank hold-up.

    Anybody who thinks that real life will be like a guy walking in to stick up a cop bar, and everybody pulls their piece and foil the plan is a fool. Arming a larger percentage of the population is a disaster waiting to happen.

  141. 141
    RSA says:

    Oh, my God. Derbyshire:

    As NRO’s designated chickenhawk, let me be the one to ask: Where was the spirit of self-defense here? Setting aside the ludicrous campus ban on licensed conceals, why didn’t anyone rush the guy? It’s not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness’ sake—one of them reportedly a .22.

    At the very least, count the shots and jump him reloading or changing hands. Better yet, just jump him. Handguns aren’t very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can’t hit squat. I doubt this guy was any better than I am. And even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage—your chances aren’t bad.

    Yes, yes, I know it’s easy to say these things: but didn’t the heroes of Flight 93 teach us anything? As the cliche goes—and like most cliches. It’s true—none of us knows what he’d do in a dire situation like that. I hope, however, that if I thought I was going to die anyway, I’d at least take a run at the guy.

  142. 142
    Tim F. says:

    I haven’t tried San Andreas yet. Which one is better?

    Vice City was fun, San Andreas is a month-plus of my life that I don’t want back.

  143. 143

    Just play Neverwinter Nights 2. Since it was made by some of the same people who worked for black isle back when Baldur’s Gate came out you can definitely see that they were channeling Jaheira when they added the druid elf chick to NWN 2. Of course they also made the “romance” so easy that even if you never took the druid chick with you you still (if your character was male) scored with her before the big battle.

    If that’s the game I’m thinking of, I didn’t like the way it played as well. You had the overhead, camera-tilting shots of the party, right? I couldn’t get into it. The camera tilts kind of annoyed me. Then again, maybe I’m thinking of NWN 1. Don’t recall which one I played.

  144. 144
    Jake says:

    We must strike now, while South Korea is distracted by North Korea!

    Better strafe Centreville, VA while you’re at it.

  145. 145
  146. 146
    JoeBob says:

    Actually, I was being partially serious…

    I cannot understand why some of you support foreign students over American students – makes no sense to me. You would rather have your tax dollars support putting some person from another country through AMERICAN colleges so he can go back to his country and take AMERICAN jobs instead of supporting a hard working AMERICAN who wants to be educated but can’t so instead they go on WELFARE or UNEMPLOYMENT which you are also funding through your tax dollars. So instead of making this society more producive, you would rather make it a welfare state while increasing the productivity and wealth of other countries.

    OK, that makes sense…

    Oh, then again, you would have to get rid of your $4.00/hr housekeeper and gardener. I am so sorry for the confusion.

  147. 147

    Vice City was fun, San Andreas is a month-plus of my life that I don’t want back.

    I’ll stick with Vice City then. Thanks!

    Better strafe Centreville, VA while you’re at it.

    I’m sure the B-2s can hit it on their way over.

  148. 148
    Mr Furious says:

    And as for the enlistment comment, I mean all these tough guys can sign up right now and they’ll be in Iraq by year’s end with a chance to test their mettle.

    I’ve got no problem with you or your service to our country–and I thank you for it. I was sleeping my way through college at the time. Though I’d personally rather have taken my chances in the Navy during the collapse of the USSR than be in the Army, USMC or Nat’l Guard today.

  149. 149
    Dreggas says:

    Tim F. Says:

    Vice City was fun, San Andreas is a month-plus of my life that I don’t want back.

    I’m looking for a new game…is it really that good?

  150. 150
    Dreggas says:

    Zombie Santa Claus Says:

    If that’s the game I’m thinking of, I didn’t like the way it played as well. You had the overhead, camera-tilting shots of the party, right? I couldn’t get into it. The camera tilts kind of annoyed me. Then again, maybe I’m thinking of NWN 1. Don’t recall which one I played.

    NWN/NWN 2 have the same camera stuff which you can easily change and even disable to some extent in the config (ie unlocking the camera so you can pan as you see fit).

  151. 151
    Focus On Your Own Damn Family! says:

    Are armed Professors a bad idea?

    Depends—do the grad students get guns too?

    I think it should be dependent on getting tenure. There have to be some standards, after all.

    They could make a little ceremony of it: The Presentation of The Glock. Pull those hoods out of the closet.

    …..not *those* hoods, silly. The other hoods!

  152. 152
    Mr Furious says:

    That Derbyshire quote HAS to be tongue-in-cheek. Right? Please?

    Jesus.

  153. 153
    Mr Furious says:

    Alright, gaming nerds, quit threadjacking.

  154. 154
    JoeBob says:

    We agree on something Mr Furious…

    Gaming nerds begone…

    Go play Warcrack

  155. 155
    mrmobi says:

    This is from Ken Ham at “Answers in Genesis”

    We live in an era when public high schools and colleges have all but banned God from science classes. In these classrooms, students are taught that the whole universe, including plants and animals–and humans–arose by natural processes. Naturalism (in essence, atheism) has become the religion of the day and has become the foundation of the education system (and Western culture as a whole). The more such a philosophy permeates the culture, the more we would expect to see a sense of purposelessness and hopelessness that pervades people’s thinking. In fact, the more a culture allows the killing of the unborn, the more we will see people treating life in general as “cheap.”

    I’m not at all saying that the person who committed these murders at Virginia Tech was driven by a belief in millions of years or evolution. I don’t know why this person did what he did, except the obvious: that it was a result of sin. However, when we see such death and violence, it is a reminder to us that without God’s Word (and the literal history in Genesis 1-11), people will not understand why such things happen.

    All rightie.

    First of all, God goes wherever the fuck she wants. You Darwinian Demislamunofascists can’t do a damn thing about that.

    God wishes you all to know that she does not take credit for this wacko Korean dude, ok? You put a fucking guy on the moon and you can’t collect all the handguns! HELLO? Anybody awake down there?

    As far as sin. Please, don’t sweat the small stuff, ok? No sin, and God’s out of a job, as well as Satan. Does anyone down there think anymore? Turn the fucking TV off for a few minutes and play with yourself. Read Kurt Vonnegut.

    “Literal history?” You believe a dude lived in a whale? You are some funny motherfuckers. Besides, if you understood why everything happened, you’d be me, and that just won’t do.

    God has been happy to provide these valuable “lessons learned.” Now, go back to fucking up the planet, you’re getting distracted. Keep your eye on the bees.

  156. 156
    Jake says:

    Setting aside the ludicrous campus ban on licensed conceals, why didn’t anyone rush the guy?

    Wow, we’ve reached Blame the Victim in less than 24 hours after the event. Surely this must be a world record.

    Handguns aren’t very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can’t hit squat.

    Yeah. People don’t miss targets, only guns miss targets. Jesus Christ on a rusty rail car. Even I know enough about guns to say this person purchased a POS piece or he’s crap at firing the gun.

  157. 157
    Tsulagi says:

    Moments like this make me question the whole premise of spoofing. Am I helping the situation by making fun of these guys, or hurting it by giving them newer and crazier ideas to trumpet? Is that, too, helpful? Or is JoeBob a spoof, also? (If that’s the case, well-played, sir.)

    You’re an inspiration. If you didn’t exist, you would need to be invented.

  158. 158

    I cannot understand why some of you support foreign students over American students – makes no sense to me. You would rather have your tax dollars support putting some person from another country through AMERICAN colleges so he can go back to his country and take AMERICAN jobs instead of supporting a hard working AMERICAN who wants to be educated but can’t so instead they go on WELFARE or UNEMPLOYMENT which you are also funding through your tax dollars. So instead of making this society more producive, you would rather make it a welfare state while increasing the productivity and wealth of other countries.

    Well, that’s your take on it. Here’s another one: The problem isn’t teaching foreigners to admire America, or to learn about American society by attending American schools. The problem is the export of manufacturing jobs overseas. Educational opportunities for the working class took a nose-dive when blue-collar laborers lost the decent union jobs and union scholarships that enabled them to afford to send their kids to college without borrowing insane amounts of money at exorbitant interest rates in the process. In effect, one must agree to long-term peonage in exchange for the short-term funding for college.

    The other problem was slashing things like public school budgets to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy, which were then invested where the wealthy could expect a greater return on their investment: overseas.

    I could write a better post about it, but I’m tired and lazy. And I’m not going to convince you anyway. If you’re a spoof, you’re already convinced; if you’re not, nothing is going to convince you.

    Oh, then again, you would have to get rid of your $4.00/hr housekeeper and gardener. I am so sorry for the confusion.

    Yes, I’m sure the average American graduate student seeking forebearances on monthly payments of $300-$700 in student loans is also hiring housekeepers and gardeners. I’m sure the guy with the BA in English who currently works in a restaurant is spending half his salary on his maid. Yep, that’s the way the economy works. Fucking moonbats will spend their last dime on helping illegals fuck over real Americans. They can’t help it; they hate America. It’s who they are.

  159. 159
    Mr Furious says:

    If you don’t think that terror organizations took note of this then you are extremely foolish. What is to prevent some radical of (insert religeon here) to enroll in another American University, walk into a 400 person lecture hall strapped with dynamite and kill even more.

    Um, JoeBob, kumbaya time is over. Are you kidding me with that crap? Do you think OBL and his ilk are sitting around in their caves slapping their foreheads and think, “Crap! Handguns and a college! I never thought of that!” Malls, college lectures, everywhere there is a large group of people is a target, and I’m pretty sure anybody who would think about wreaking havoc on them, has run trough a few scenarios in their head. already. They aren’t taking notes based on yesterday.

  160. 160
    Dreggas says:

    I cannot understand why some of you support foreign students over American students – makes no sense to me. You would rather have your tax dollars support putting some person from another country through AMERICAN colleges so he can go back to his country and take AMERICAN jobs instead of supporting a hard working AMERICAN who wants to be educated but can’t so instead they go on WELFARE or UNEMPLOYMENT which you are also funding through your tax dollars. So instead of making this society more producive, you would rather make it a welfare state while increasing the productivity and wealth of other countries.

    Given what the right wants, that is the bible being taught in schools and the whole young earth bullshit as well as “intelligent” design replacing evolution we won’t have to worry about them coming here to go to our schools. They’ll go elsewhere, you know, to schools that teach reality rather than myth.

  161. 161
    Dreggas says:

    Um, JoeBob, kumbaya time is over. Are you kidding me with that crap? Do you think OBL and his ilk are sitting around in their caves slapping their foreheads and think, “Crap! Handguns and a college! I never thought of that!” Malls, college lectures, everywhere there is a large group of people is a target, and I’m pretty sure anybody who would think about wreaking havoc on them, has run trough a few scenarios in their head. already. They aren’t taking notes based on yesterday.

    Nope, they wrote the book.

  162. 162
    Tsulagi says:

    Handguns aren’t very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can’t hit squat.

    I can believe that.

    Anyone who thinks people are suggesting guns be handed out to students with no experience is crazy or dishonest. You need proper training before receiving a concealed carry permit.

    Don’t know if you’re also in spoof mode or not, but I call bullshit.

    The arguments I’ve seen made is that since Virginia is an open carry state, students should be allowed to carry them on campus. In some states to get a concealed carry permit, you don’t have to prove skill or judgment in using a weapon, just that you have a need, pass a background check, and register the firearm.

    Even with some training large numbers of students carrying weapons could easily be a disaster. Someone I know rode with a colonel in Iraq who was going to watch a training exercise by an “elite” squad of IA. Real commandos.

    The squad was going to clear buildings on a street near the base. The Iraqis knew it was an exercise and that the buildings were all abandoned. Colonel has the bright idea to introduce live fire into the exercise to see how they respond to the unexpected. Sniper puts a round through a window in front of the squad.

    The surprised Iraqis immediately go into a death blossom firing 360 with the only apparent goal seeming to be how fast they could empty their magazines. One guy seeing a vehicle moving away behind them begins spraying it with his RPK, a Russian light machine gun.

    Afterwards that RPK carrying Iraqi was asked WTF he was doing, didn’t he see that was a Humvee? Not to mention carrying a colonel with an elevated heart rate. The Iraqi said he wasn’t sure it was a Humvee. He hadn’t gotten his glasses yet. LOL, I shit you not.

    And you want to arm students in a school? Good luck with that.

  163. 163

    NWN/NWN 2 have the same camera stuff which you can easily change and even disable to some extent in the config (ie unlocking the camera so you can pan as you see fit).

    Meh. Still annoyed me.

    …..not those hoods, silly. The other hoods!

    That’s hilarious on several levels.

    We agree on something Mr Furious…

    Gaming nerds begone…

    Go play Warcrack

    Sorry to get off-topic. Let’s get back to figuring out a way to stop the Pastafarians from detonating suicide car bombs in major American cities. That should be the main issue in the 2008 campaign, but don’t expect Billary or Barack Osama to spend a whole lot of time discussing it.

    This is from Ken Ham at “Answers in Genesis”

    Those guys are awesome. Did you link to them through Scrutator? I think the Brownbackers linked to them, too. Those guys are spoofs, too. I’m pretty sure. Also, the guys at Redstate. They’re letting their guard down a little, nowadays.

  164. 164
    Andrew says:

    First of all, God goes wherever the fuck she wants. You Darwinian Demislamunofascists can’t do a damn thing about that.

    I blame evolution too.

    When God made Adam and Eve, they were white, just like all of His children.

    It was the evils of evolution that led to Asians, their brown skin, and the school shootings.

    (This is actually quite similar to the Book of Mormon, seriously.)

  165. 165

    You’re an inspiration. If you didn’t exist, you would need to be invented.

    You flatter me. Are you angling for that San Andreas game this December? If so, you’ve come to the right zombie.

  166. 166
    Mr Furious says:

    Sorry to get off-topic. Let’s get back to figuring out a way to stop the Pastafarians from detonating suicide car bombs in major American cities. That should be the main issue in the 2008 campaign, but don’t expect Billary or Barack Osama to spend a whole lot of time discussing it.

    Nicely played, I am properly humbled…

  167. 167

    Nicely played, I am properly humbled…

    No offense, I wasn’t aiming at you. I was going after our spoof-troglodyte friend, JoeBob.

  168. 168
    LLeo says:

    The Other Steve Says:

    H1B is a joke. It’s a way for large companies to get cheaper labor at the expense of the American worker and kids today are getting smarter and realizing that there is no future in Computer Science because there are NO jobs to be had since the H1B’s are a cheaper higher than they are. Hence, why get a degree in CS????

    There’s a lot of jobs out there, and they pay quite well.

    It’s just that having experience in PHP and mySQL doesn’t make you qualified.

    H1B is a Joke. It is the indentured servant Joke. I’ve known several H1B’s that feel trapped in their job. The burden is high for another employer to hire an H1B, and if you boss finds out you are looking for another job (an is a dick) you could be going home very fast.

    As for out sourcing IT jobs to India. That is a fact. I know a department in AOL which is bleeding talented programmers because of bad managment. The very same bad management chose not to backfill these positions, and instead closed out the positions and insisted they be filled in India. Further, the India guys SUCK DONKEY DICK! This is not a disparagement of Indians. Many of the top flight guys I’ve known are Indian, especially the ones from IIT (the most exclusive Universities in the world). However, like with all things IT 20 people suck to every 5 that are OK against the 1 good one.

    BTW, I left AOL voluntarily. My position was closed out in the US, it will only to be filled in India. I am far-far-away from PHP and MySQL. If you need a system to manage 10,000 hosts, I am you man. If you need to manage 100 systems I am over qualified.

  169. 169
    Dreggas says:

    Zombie Santa Claus Says:

    Sorry to get off-topic. Let’s get back to figuring out a way to stop the Pastafarians from detonating suicide car bombs in major American cities. That should be the main issue in the 2008 campaign, but don’t expect Billary or Barack Osama to spend a whole lot of time discussing it.

    Actually I bet there will be speculation about how many violent video games this “loner” played. Of course the irony would be if his favorite game was “Left Behind”.

  170. 170
    Jake says:

    Perhaps the “It’s going to happen anyway,” folks are right.
    The mayor of Nagasaki has been assasinated.

  171. 171
    mrmobi says:

    Those guys are awesome. Did you link to them through Scrutator?

    No, ZSC, Digby had a link to Science Blogs, and they excerpted it.
    That Blogs for Brownback site is a hoot, isn’t it? There is enough material to supply the Daily Show for years in there.

    Brownback is my favorite GOP candidate, after Gingrich. I’ve been praying (in my pagan way) that Gingrich declares for POTUS soon.

    He is the only “pre-disastered” candidate. But Brownback would be a high-quality clusterfuck candidacy.

    The other problem was slashing things like public school budgets to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy, which were then invested where the wealthy could expect a greater return on their investment: overseas.

    Things have worked out well for the wealthy, haven’t they?

  172. 172
    mrmobi says:

    Perhaps the “It’s going to happen anyway,” folks are right.

    Oops, sorry, I was wrong. Can we give everyone an automatic weapon now?

  173. 173
    Zifnab says:

    None of this would have ever happened if we hadn’t evolved thumbs.

  174. 174
    MNPundit says:

    Because a confusing 25 way shootout in the dorms would have been SO MUCH SAFER than what happened.

    People are… well mostly idiots. I really don’t think this is an American phenomena, but our media are such more stupid that other countries that it makes it look even worse.

  175. 175
    Tom Hilton says:

    Mr Furious used the word ‘opportunity’. I was mocking him when I used it.

    Sorry, then–I misread. In my defense, though, everything else you said lent support to my misreading (and I have gone back and re-read, just to make sure I wasn’t completely off-base in my response).

  176. 176
    Krista says:

    Pooh Says:

    Is that the Canadan spelling?

    Making fun of my spelling? Those who live in glass igloos shouldn’t throw snowballs, sweetpea.

  177. 177
    Pooh says:

    Douthat’s post is spot on, methinks.

  178. 178
    Pooh says:

    Pooh Says:

    Is that the Canadan spelling?

    Making fun of my spelling? Those who live in glass igloos shouldn’t throw snowballs, sweetpea.

    That was intentional, MB.

    Blame Canadia.

  179. 179
    Zifnab says:

    Blame Canadia.

    It’s aboot time they were held responsible.

  180. 180
    HyperIon says:

    People are… well mostly idiots. I really don’t think this is an American phenomena

    i don’t know about mostly but there are many idiots out there.

    and no, americans are not the only folks to suffer from idiocy; it’s a human thing. but if i get to choose, i would prefer to live in a society that minimizes the chances of the idiot being armed.

    live by the gun, die by the gun. not everybody dies, of course; but somebody dies, for sure.
    the more guns, the more gun violence.

    so, is protecting the right to bear arms the same as “living by the gun”? IMO, yes. if you are going to argue that the right to bear arms is crucial to america, then you MUST accept the collateral damage that flows from the abuse of this right.

  181. 181
    Perry Como says:

    To sum up the media’s take on this, look here.

  182. 182
    srv says:

    That Derbyshire quote HAS to be tongue-in-cheek. Right? Please?

    Why is it that mass murderers never go crazy someplace useful, like at the Weekly Standard or NR?

  183. 183
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Wait, I get it–JoeBob is actually Joe Genero (aka Joe Jack Talcum) of The Dead Milkmen, and this:

    You would rather have your tax dollars support putting some person from another country through AMERICAN colleges so he can go back to his country and take AMERICAN jobs instead of supporting a hard working AMERICAN

    is just the rant at the end of “Instant Club Hit (You’ll Dance to Anything)”

    “You’ll dance to anything by any bunch of stupid Europeans who come over here with their big hairdos intent on taking OUR money instead of giving your cash where it belongs to a decent AMERICAN artist like myself. You’ll dance to anything….”

  184. 184
    ThymeZone says:

    if you are going to argue that the right to bear arms is crucial to america, then you MUST accept the collateral damage that flows from the abuse of this right.

    Of course, this principle only stands up if the “acceptance” literally means a willingness to take a bullet for gun ownership. If you aren’t willing to BE the collateral damage, then your “acceptance” of it is basically just sociopathy. Sure, I don’t mind if you take a bullet for my freedom to own a gun.

    Yeah, thanks but no thanks, I don’t need the kind of freedom that is supported by people who “accept” carnage as a price for it. I’m gonna need something a little more reliable.

  185. 185
    Pooh says:

    Why is it that mass murderers never go crazy someplace useful, like at the Weekly Standard or NR?

    That’s vaguely Coulterish. Not ok.

  186. 186
    Dreggas says:

    live by the gun, die by the gun. not everybody dies, of course; but somebody dies, for sure.
    the more guns, the more gun violence.

    so, is protecting the right to bear arms the same as “living by the gun”? IMO, yes. if you are going to argue that the right to bear arms is crucial to america, then you MUST accept the collateral damage that flows from the abuse of this right.

    So if you believe in freedom of speech then you MUST accept what Don Imus said on the radio.

    Sorry that doesn’t fly.

  187. 187
    Perry Como says:

    Handguns aren’t very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can’t hit squat.

    Derbyshire is a fucking tool. Handguns are quite accurate if you are a decent shot. Perhaps he is confusing a handgun with a blaster from Star Wars.

    On a related note, when I was visiting some friends out in Portland, OR we went to the range one afternoon. Tested out my friend’s 9mm (gas compensator, nice pistol), 10mm, shotgun, .22. Fun afternoon. Portland SWAT was in the bay behind us doing drills. After we were done, we watched the SWAT team for a bit. They were shooting metal targets so it was very easy to see how quick they hit. One officer was 5 feet from the target and popped off a few rounds with his handgun before the target dropped. That guy should have had his weapon confiscated and been dismissed from the force on the spot.

    Some people really don’t need to be firing guns.

  188. 188
    HyperIon says:

    Yeah, thanks but no thanks, I don’t need the kind of freedom that is supported by people who “accept” carnage as a price for it. I’m gonna need something a little more reliable.

    i’m not understanding your objection.

    a willingness to take a bullet for gun ownership

    i’m not willing. but i do think that the probability that i will be a victim of gun violence is larger here that in, say, england or france. that’s why i would prefer to live in a society that minimizes the chances of the idiots one encounters daily being armed…the odds of getting shot are smaller.

    if there are cars, there are car accidents, sometimes because a driver was abusing the rules of the road (i.e., being an idiot). most people will not die in a car accident. most people will not support the elimination of cars to achieve a lower highway death rate. because it seems obvious that much good comes from driving.

    what happened yesterday is inevitable given the foibles of humanity (inability to control rage, etc) and the availability of guns. most of the time it’s one homicide at a time. other times it’s multiple killings, which get much more attention.

    those people who say “pry the gun from my cold, dead hands” have evidently decided that the downside of gun control trumps the downside of idiots having guns.

    so….what would be

    a little more reliable?

  189. 189
    Mr Furious says:

    That’s vaguely Coulterish. Not ok.

    [judge voice] I’ll allow it.

    Derb is asking for it, unlike the NY Times, and “srv” commenting in an obscure blog thread is hardly equivilent

  190. 190
    ThymeZone says:

    i’m not understanding your objection

    I don’t think it could possibly be any clearer.

    Your (generic you, not you in particular) cannot “accept” collateral damage unless you are willing to BE the collateral damage. If your support for the thing is not great enough that you will take a bullet for it, you sure as hell don’t have the right to assume that I should take a bullet for it. If you do, that’s just sociopathy.

    Of course, even if you do accept the bullet, you still don’t have a right to insist that I accept one. I have the right to oppose you, and will. That’s why I, as a gun owner who does not think that gun ownership is a god-given right in a civilized society, say to 2nd Amendmendment fanciers, you better make damned sure that all necessary and appropriate laws, devices, and other protections are in place before you all arm up and start shooting at each other with your wonderful “right” because if you endanger me or my family I am going to oppose you. That’s MY right and I don’t intend to snooze it away while you beat your chest and play with your guns.

    That’s why I think that manfucaturers and distributors of weapons and ammunition should be heavily regulated, and those regulations enforced to the tee. Just for starters.

  191. 191
    Paul L. says:

    Krista Says:
    I would, but he seems to have serious issues with women womyn, so anything I say might make him angrier.

    Don’t worry Krista. I have no problem with most women.
    Just the man-hating ones.

    However seeing Rosie O’Donnell and Nancy Grace on TV has lower my option of the fairer sex.

    Reading pandragon and feministing does not help my opinion either.

  192. 192
    srv says:

    One officer was 5 feet from the target and popped off a few rounds with his handgun before the target dropped.

    That was the marksman.

    For Paul L, and all you nuts – let us know where your kids are going to college and I’ll tell all the gun nuts I know where they should transfer to.

    That’s what you want, right? No? Hypocrites.

  193. 193
    Jake says:

    However seeing Rosie O’Donnell and Nancy Grace on TV has lower my option of the fairer sex.

    Lower your option?

    Must be an euphemism.

  194. 194
    Dreggas says:

    i’m not willing. but i do think that the probability that i will be a victim of gun violence is larger here that in, say, england or france. that’s why i would prefer to live in a society that minimizes the chances of the idiots one encounters daily being armed…the odds of getting shot are smaller.

    Of course then guns would be replaced with knives, or hell cars like we had here in so-cal when another “loner student” tried to run down a street full of college kids. The tool matters little it’s the person with the tool that’s the problem.

    Unless you live in an area plagued with violent crime the odds of getting shot in this country are pretty damn low compared to many other countries. Why? Because the majority of those owning guns aren’t using them to commit crimes.

  195. 195
    ThymeZone says:

    I have no problem with most women.

    We’ll, uh, want to hear from a few of them to substantiate that, if that’s okay with you :)

    A call goes out for “most women” to please step forward and stand up for PaulL.

    We’ll just put this on hold until we, uh, hear from a few of them.

    { time passes }

    Just, uh, waiting here until we …. get some response ….

    { time passes }

    They will surely speak up any time now. Heh.

    { time passes }

    { sounds of snoring }

  196. 196
    Jake says:

    A call goes out for “most women” to please step forward and stand up for PaulL.

    Would Guliani in drag count?

    I’d do it but I broke a heel on my favourite pumps.

  197. 197
    ThymeZone says:

    I’d do it but I broke a heel on my favourite pumps.

    Same here, I don’t have a thing to wear.

  198. 198
    Dreggas says:

    Jake Says:

    A call goes out for “most women” to please step forward and stand up for PaulL.

    Would Guliani in drag count?

    I’d do it but I broke a heel on my favourite pumps.

    ThymeZone Says:

    Same here, I don’t have a thing to wear.

  199. 199
    Dreggas says:

    bah meant to add “Amateurs” to that last reply but hit submit instead.

  200. 200
    HyperIon says:

    So if you believe in freedom of speech then you MUST accept what Don Imus said on the radio.

    Sorry that doesn’t fly.

    i started to address that in my original post but decided to keep it simpler. also i wanted to NOT bring up Imus. *sigh*
    i accept that he said it because he thought it was about his “right” to free speech. but i have no problem with CBS sponsors demonstrating that he was mistaken. but i do accept that the nazis got to have their parade in skokie.

    and i want to retroactively change the term “idiots” to “crazies” since the info coming out now seems to indicate that the shooter was “troubled”.

    so i guess i’m with John Cole:

    Crazy people do crazy things, and sometimes they do crazy horrible things. That is the big lesson.

    jesus said “the poor will always be with you”. as will the crazies. but the horror they can do increases with their weaponry.

  201. 201
    Krista says:

    That was intentional, MB.

    Blame Canadia.

    Intentional. Sure. As Hellen Keller signed everytime she fell down the well, “Fuck you, I meant to do that.”

  202. 202
    Krista says:

    Don’t worry Krista. I have no problem with most women.
    Just the man-hating ones.

    Ah yes. But there’s also your derisiveness towards feminism, based on the erroneous assumption that all feminists hate men. Feminism is about gender equality, not about the superiority of females. Your real beef is with misandry, not feminism. Real feminists, true feminists, are usually quite fond of men (I know I am!) — and do not want to be treated as though they are lesser than men.

  203. 203
    Jake says:

    jesus said “the poor will always be with you”. as will the crazies. but the horror they can do increases with their weaponry.

    Someone tell the meek to hurry up and inherit this place. The swaggering bastards are getting me down.

    As Hellen Keller signed everytime she fell down the well, “Fuck you, I meant to do that.”

    Holy shit. I think that actually caused internal damage.

  204. 204
    skip says:

    The real “lesson” to keep in mind is not to put much stock in early breaking information.

    Virginia gun laws are going to cast an ideological fog over everything.

  205. 205
    skip says:

    Based on experience, I wouldn’t allow VA college males on campus with anything sharper than crayons.

  206. 206
    HyperIon says:

    Unless you live in an area plagued with violent crime the odds of getting shot in this country are pretty damn low compared to many other countries.

    which other countries? south america? colombia? nothern ireland?

  207. 207
    rachel says:

    Ironically, it would have been much harder for him to have committed this crime in South Korea because we have gun control laws here.

  208. 208
    tBone says:

    Actually I bet there will be speculation about how many violent video games this “loner” played.

    Are you kidding? Jack Thompson was on Fox News yesterday afternoon with his “murder simulator” bullshit, before any real details about the shooter’s background had been released.

    Apparently the only thing more dangerous than a Grand Theft Auto player is getting in between Jack and a camera when there’s a gun-related tragedy.

  209. 209

    which other countries? south america? colombia? nothern ireland?

    Well, not Iraq. The murder rate there is far lower than it is in most major American cities, including Anchorage, Alaska and Savannah, Georgia. Iraq is a model of safety, if you can just peek through the media filter and see all the progress going on over there.

    Still, most of Africa is dangerouser than America. South America, parts of Central America that still have minefields (for some reason or other, dum-de-dum-dum), Cambodia, Chechnya, the former Yugoslav states, and that one pub in Andorra where the crazy guy shoots at the wall 18 hours a day are all much dangerouser than America.

    To sum up: Scandinavia>Iraq>America>the Third World>Andorra>the warring city-states of the civilization formerly known as Atlantis and currently known, apocryphally, as R’lyeh.

  210. 210
    Dreggas says:

    Zombie Santa Claus Says:

    which other countries? south america? colombia? nothern ireland?

    Well, not Iraq. The murder rate there is far lower than it is in most major American cities, including Anchorage, Alaska and Savannah, Georgia. Iraq is a model of safety, if you can just peek through the media filter and see all the progress going on over there.

    Still, most of Africa is dangerouser than America. South America, parts of Central America that still have minefields (for some reason or other, dum-de-dum-dum), Cambodia, Chechnya, the former Yugoslav states, and that one pub in Andorra where the crazy guy shoots at the wall 18 hours a day are all much dangerouser than America.

    To sum up: Scandinavia>Iraq>America>the Third World>Andorra>the warring city-states of the civilization formerly known as Atlantis and currently known, apocryphally, as R’lyeh.

    I channeled that through him. Seriously tho, he should know…he visits these places like every year.

  211. 211
    p.lukasiak says:

    On a 2000+ acre campus, with a community of around 20-30k people spread out all over town?

    Which doors do you lock? Who locks them? Who controls them? Who are you looking for?

    Which doors do you lock? Well you can start with the ones in the building where you know bullets are being fired. Or is that too obvious.

    Who locks them?….hmmmm. tough one, especially since I was discussing the campus security forces acting. So I’m just gonna throw out FREAKING CAMPUS POLICE as an answer.

    Who controls them? Wow! another astute question… maybe the SAME FREAKING CAMPUS POLICE who locked them — at least until reinforcements arrive.

    Who am I looking for? Gee…. I don’t know. Maybe THAT’S why I might want to secure the building….so some armed gunman whose identity I don’t know can’t get out.

    I mean, could your questions be any dumber? I ACKNOWLEDGED that this strategy is arguable in that it might actually create more danger for the students in the building. But for some strange reason, you decided to challenge my suggestion by asking the dumbest possible questions imaginable

  212. 212
    ThymeZone says:

    Yeah, Paul, why don’t you go back to your original post, and then correlate your blurb with the published timeline of events at VT, and then explain what the FUCK you were talking about? What door should be locked, and when? By whom, and for what reason? Based on what? Did you even think it through, or were you, as usual, just posting drunk?

    I don’t think you have a fucking clue, but please, prove me wrong. Tell us how your super handling of the situation would have been better. Go ahead, describe the whole Lukasiak Security Company version of the tragedy. Take all the time you need. Be thorough, show the detail.

    Go ahead, Paul, go for it.

  213. 213
    Krista says:

    Holy shit. I think that actually caused internal damage.

    You gonna be okay, man?

  214. 214
    p.lukasiak says:

    Gaz….

    it occurs to me that if you could effectively dispute my post, you’d do so. Something along the lines of (making it up as I go along here solely as an example)….

    there were 23 doors that would have had to be secured after the first armed security officers arrived on the scene. There were only 15 security officers on campus at the time, necessitating a call for back-up from the local police… and there were only 7 of those on the street at the time….Dickwad

    see, that is how you dispute someone. You make them look like an idiot by providing facts that disprove their assertions. You just make yourself look stupid(er) by engaging in adhominem attacks with no facts (or rational counter-theories) to back them up.

  215. 215
    ThymeZone says:

    Are you deaf, asshole? WHAT DOORS? AT WHAT TIME? BY WHOM?
    FOR WHAT REASON?

    Have you given this any thought at all? Clearly not. You have no fucking clue in the world, do you? You just made a stupid rant and now you are trying to paste it over with a bunch of slams at me.

    I stand on my original questions to you, which remain unanswered because you have no idea what the FUCK you are talking about.

  216. 216

    […] John Cole is right on about the VaTech shootings: “…we are about to learn all sorts of “lessons” in the aftermath of the VT shootings. And true to form, most of these lessons will be hastily implemented versions of pre-existing agendas, shoddily conceived, and in the long run, more painful than the tragedy itself.” (Hat tip to JEFF.) […]

  217. 217

    […] UPDATE: Better stated: As with every American tragedy, we are about to learn all sorts of “lessons” in the aftermath of the VT shootings. And true to form, most of these lessons will be hastily implemented versions of pre-existing agendas, shoddily conceived, and in the long run, more painful than the tragedy itself. It is a uniquely American form of grieving, completely predictable, and equally difficult to stop. […]

  218. 218
    Marcus says:

    Debbie Schussel shoots from the lip!

    She has become so paranoid, she now attacks fellow conservatives.

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] UPDATE: Better stated: As with every American tragedy, we are about to learn all sorts of “lessons” in the aftermath of the VT shootings. And true to form, most of these lessons will be hastily implemented versions of pre-existing agendas, shoddily conceived, and in the long run, more painful than the tragedy itself. It is a uniquely American form of grieving, completely predictable, and equally difficult to stop. […]

  2. […] John Cole is right on about the VaTech shootings: “…we are about to learn all sorts of “lessons” in the aftermath of the VT shootings. And true to form, most of these lessons will be hastily implemented versions of pre-existing agendas, shoddily conceived, and in the long run, more painful than the tragedy itself.” (Hat tip to JEFF.) […]

  3. VT

    I guess it goes without saying there’s not much I can really add about how unspeakably awful what happened down in Virginia was. I remember when I was a senior in high school, about two months from graduation, when the…

  4. Virginia Tech Massacre: The Wild West Mentality

    John Cole: I live and work on a college campus. I simply can not express how bad of an idea it is to permit a population of undeveloped and aggressive young males going through tumultuous times in their lives to

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