The drips continue:
Three advertisers — office supply chain Staples Inc., Bigelow Tea and Procter & Gamble — said late yesterday that they would stop placing ads on the show out of dismay over Imus’s comments. Any further defections could significantly erode economic support for a program heard in about 70 radio markets, including Washington. CBS Radio, which syndicates Imus, has not announced how it will fill the time slot when Imus’s suspension begins on Monday. MSNBC said it would program expanded news coverage during the time.
Imus has gone past the edges of propriety many times during his long career, but nothing has approached the storm that now swirls about him.
Not only are advertisers pulling out, but it is all the bobbleheads on cable are talking about. That is never good.
Personally, if I were Imus, I would hold a press conference in which I expressed contrition for my remarks, acknowledge they were truly inappropriate and hurtful, and then tell everyone to go fuck themselves, I am retiring.
Maybe I am on my own with that approach, but that exit certainly seems more dignified than grovelling for two weeks before being fired.
*** Update ***
You have to give Ana Marie Cox credit- she knows how to insert herself into a story:
I’ll have some more fleshed-out thoughts on the matter in the magazine this week, but for now, since many people have asked: No, I won’t be going on Imus anymore. Having said that, it’s not like they’ll be inviting me back.
I, too, will boldly proclaim that after his behavior the past two weeks, I will refuse to appear on Imus in the Morning.
Myrtle Parker
That’s moronic. If only America had a tradition of true personal responsibility…
If Imus were a _man_ and wanted people to have some kind of respect for him he would give a statement of contrition, submit his resignation as a direct consequence for his actions and start looking for another job.
This is as obvious as the day is bright and every child knows it.
mia
it really is up to the market to take care of imus. if he is to be fired it shouldn’t be because others demand it. i read a great column that takes imus and jackson and sharpton all to task.
check it out
http://joeleonardi.wordpress.com/2007/04/11/don-imus-is-a-jerk-whats-new/
Rome Again
Agreed! I like your idea better.
chopper
spokesperson for Jeri-Curl?
Tim in SF
I don’t get it. Imus has been saying stupider shit for years and no one has said anything. Hell, I can find far more racist crap oozing out of Rush Limbaugh, Neal Boortz, Mike Savage, or any of those other blowhards on any given day. Why Imus? and why now?
There’s something else at play here.
DougJ
I’m so sick of this story already.
Redleg
Call me naive, but “contrition” and “go fuck yourself” don’t seem to go along with each other.
Myrtle Parker
Who gives a flying fuck? Seriously! Who really cares if Imus is singled out? What he said was abhorrent entirely on its own. It was completely uncalled for and really should be something he’s fired for.
Does this infringe his free speech? Good god, NO! He’s perfectly capable of mouthing off all the racist crap he wants and apparently does whenever the microphone is off.
Does the fact that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are hypocrites mitigate Imus? Good god, NO! Who gives a flying fuck what they say. Just because Al Sharpton is an asshole and a prick doesn’t mean Imus isn’t a racist scumbag who doesn’t belong on the public airwaves.
“But Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage and the rest say far worse!”
Yah, so they should all be fired. A decent society would refuse to listen to them and market forces would make sure they were off the air. We are not a decent society. However, decent people living in this indecent society should like to see it restored to something decent. Hence Imus, Rush, and Savage should all be fired.
I don’t understand why this is so hard.
OTOH, if NBC wants to keep an old racist prick on the air so he can insult other complete strangers with sexist and racist banter, then it really isn’t any worse than Clear Channel and all the rest who regularly support Rush, etc, etc.
Our public discourse sucks thanks to Rush, Imus, Savage, Hannity and the rest. They should all be canned, yes, but if they are all not fired en masse it is unfair? Or some such stupid thing??
Come on!
John Cole
Again, just me, but I think it is entirely possible to display contrition to those you have offended while extending a prominent middle finger to Al Sharpton.
Tim in SF
Myrtle, you’re a fucking idiot. Nowhere in my post does it say Imus should be excused. And your quotation of me (the one ending with an exclamation point) is nowhere on the page except your post, so I guess that makes you a liar, too.
Go back and read what I wrote. I *asked* why Imus is being singled out when the three rightards I mentioned say far worse nearly every day. I *said* I didn’t understand why Imus and why now, either.
If you’re going to quote people and flip out on them you should at least do so accurately.
Bitch.
Krista
Possible, but it would take something special to be able to carry off a credible air of contrition while flipping the bird.
neil
I don’t care if Imus stays on the air, but it is really indicative of a sickness among the political and journalistic class that they love to go on his show so much that they’re willing to stick up for the guy. When it comes to, y’know, matters of life and death, McCain and Lieberman have no integrity at all, but when it comes to their rich white media buddies losing some of their influence, they’re willing to make the hard choices and put their own reputations on the line.
Cowards.
FAP
“There’s something else at play here.”
Yeah people who profit on racial politics see a moron who said something incredibly stupid and will use the situation to increase their own profile.
Myrtle Parker
Try not to be such a fucking tool, Tim. The only time I addressed you specifically is when I quoted you precisely in the first blockquote and answered your moronic question with: “Who gives a flying fuck? Seriously!”
The bit that got your panties in a knicker wasn’t quoting you. It was just echoing the idiotic sentiment from some around these parts.
John Cole
Tim-
Was the “bitch” remark entirely necessary?
Mr Furious
John, Tim was expressing his inner-Imus.
Tim in SF
No, the “bitch” part is not, technically, necessary. Sorry Myrtle.
Rome Again
John is making an effort to police his blog… I like it.
Tim in SF
Heh.
Actually, here in PC San Francisco, it’s one of the words in frequent usage, though almost exclusively by gay guys in references to their gay guy friends and sometimes female friends, and nearly always to ones’ face in response to minor incursions of politesse.
For example: “you BITCH” for taking the last piece of bacon on the brunch platter.
Myrtle Parker
I don’t consider ‘bitch’ any worse than calling someone an ‘asshole’. I called Sharpton an ‘asshole’ in this comment thread and I’d like to reserve the right to continue calling people ‘asshole’ as I see fit, so I can’t really quibble if Tim does the same.
Tsulagi
Sometimes it does. Like in some foods. Sort of a sweet and sour thing.
Tim in SF
I think “asshole” is much worse than “bitch.” Not sure I can explain why.
mrmobi
Above from the Mia’s linked article, emphasis mine.
Once again, Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton has sent John Cole off the deep end.
John, you make it sound like he has some ground to stand on, and, in my opinion, he does not.
For you, if Jackson and Sharpton are involved, the perpetrator of this smut must be defended. You appear to be suffering from Cindy Sheehan syndrome. Of course, this has diverted attention away from the wonderful young women who were the target of this vile attack. It has also ruined what should have been a great moment in their lives. They are the victims here, not Imus, and it has nothing to do with Rev. Jackson or Al Sharpton.
Again, from Mia’s linked article.
Yeah, that’s the ticket, let’s brush it off and have more of the same, because it’s just not worth the effort. Brilliant, we should also pay no attention to pundits advocating for camps for illegal aliens, killing Supreme Court justices etc., it’s just not worth the effort.
I can’t believe that people think that it is Imus who has been wronged here, not 10 young women who just achieved something for themselves and their school that should make all of us proud.
But no, we must protect the rights of crabby old white guys to be racist and sexist on the airwaves, because, you know, they’re old!
Jesus General has a post up with photos of the team. Go on over there and look at those faces and tell me they deserved to be vilified and have their achievement tarnished by this worthless old coot.
Imus is a racist pig and he should resign or be fired, after first apologizing in person to the team. This argument about whether Imus should be fired is such a bunch of bullshit. We, as a society get to decide what crosses the line on the public airwaves, and this does.
jeff
I would for once like someone, anyone who gets on Sharpton and Jackson’s bad side for something they said to reply with a comment that they are sorry but they are not going to take advice or care about the opinions of a racist liar (Tawana Brawley) and an anti-semite (hymie town).
ThymeZone
I have to side with John here. I personally don’t care for Imus at all, never have. But his little gaffe, and it was a gaffe, is nothing compared to the torrent of shit that pours from the broadcast media daily and gets no attention at all.
Imus provided a soapbox for his brother-in-asholiness, Sharpton, and here we are. But Limbaugh and Coulter and their imitators are fouling the air with offensive shit every hour of the day and we don’t see an outcry.
Imus is basically a fool who apparently never considered that his gravy train could be derailed by crossing this type of line, and if the train goes away, well, so be it. He had a nice ride at the expense of all the people he insulted gratuitously over the years. But so what? It’s America, it’s a free country. Imus himself states that he has no problem with people calling for his head. He is also correct in stating that he has a defense and should be allowed to make it. Whether his defense prevails or not, I couln’t care less.
VidaLoca
Like Krista and some others, I’m wondering how that would actually work. “Well, I may be a bigot, and I may be sorry, but Sharpton’s a bigot and a hypocrite too so fuck all of you” doesn’t really seem to get him to where he would want to be.
Yes. The actually classy thing to do.
“New and improved accountability(tm) — now with consequences!”
keatssycamore
I don’t get it. Imus has been saying stupider shit for years and no one has said anything. Hell, I can find far more racist crap oozing out of Rush Limbaugh, Neal Boortz, Mike Savage, or any of those other blowhards on any given day. Why Imus? and why now?
There’s something else at play here.
I think it’s possible that people got really upset because Imus insulted particular and identifiable young women. Young women who, far from being “ho’s”, actually seem to exemplify much of what we would want from our young women. I think alot of people imagined (I know I did) how much being insulted on NATIONAL RADIO because of physical appearance would crush our sister, or daughter. Especially, in such a bitterweet time as immediately after being on the threshold of achieving one’s dream and coming up short. I think it’s the intensity of the personal indignity (which is specific and relatable) that made this the zeitgeist.
Now whether Jesse and Al may, or may not, genuinely feel the same mixture of anger and sorrow as other people (or, perhaps, even more so), or are simply exploiting what they know to be the strong feelings “on the ground” for their own personal aggrandizement is, I suppose, an open question. Regardless, I think calling for his job has an unnecessary air of sanctimony. But press conferences calling out sponsors and asking people to change the dial? I think that’s needed and deserved.
mrmobi
Yep, TZ, it was a gaffe, and it does pale in comparison to the rightwing shitstorm happening on a daily basis.
In fact, I’m willing to say that if he had called Gwen Ifill a “nappy headed ho” I would agree that it was out of line, but Gwen is a grown up and a celebrity, she is more than capable of brushing off old cowboy hat wearing white guy insults. I wouldn’t like it, but my reaction would be tempered.
But that’s not what happened here. He picked on kids. Kids who we should be celebrating.
numbskull
Imus gravely insulted some people. He did it for a cheap laugh, which means, given his profession, he did it for money.
I think a lot of people get that. Imus ruined what should have been a great day and a huge accomplishment for some young ladies that never did him any harm. And he did it for money.
Setting race issues aside, setting gender issues aside (neither of which should be set aside, but rhetorically doing so to make a point), I think people really “get” that Imus has deeply hurt some innocent young women and their families and he did it very publicly and quite thoughtlessly and he did it for money.
It really is that simple. I think people are realizing that fundamentally this is what this guy does for a living: He’s paid to be cruel and it disgusts people who heretofore hadn’t thought much about it or didn’t know about the Imus show.
Someone asked why Imus and why now? Well, really, why not? I mean, it’s a good start. It has fairly clear participants (Imus as asshole, players as innocent victims) and the sports, race, and gender aspects allows it cross several media nodes (news, sports, human interest, etc.).
But still, I think it boils down to people being disgusted with an old asshole picking on several bright young faces and doing it for money. Fuck ‘im. Who needs that? Toss ‘im over the side. And if this rubs off on other media assholes, so much the better.
Richard Bottoms
We know the difference between a gaffe and offensive. Black folks always know. This was no more a gaffe than Mel Gibson’s ani-jew tirade.
Imus would not consider such an insult against a championship baskeball team made up of blode white girls as remotely funny, but black women are easy targets for such an insult. And that’s the point.
Nikki
Thank you, mrmobi. I have been trying to express your sentiment ever since it happened. Thank you for doing it so eloquently.
ThymeZone
Uh, well I don’t defend the gaffe in any way. I think it’s a shocking exposure of an undercurrent of not just racism, and meanness, out there, and now integrated into the entertainment media and the infotainment media …
However, I am pathologically allergic to phony bathos. And this whole “the poor tildren” thing here is enough to gag a horse. These aren’t “kids” to me, they are strong, educated, articulate, high-achieving women, who are not served by treating them as though they are helpless little girls who can be actually injured by the mean old man in the hat. I think they stand up for themselves best by saying, hey, to hell with you, Imus. You’re an ignorant prick, and we are the future, not you and your 4-decades-too-late brand of insulting humor. I think we “celebrate” by standing tall, not acting like hurt puppies. I think that can be done without giving up the complaint that Imus’ remarks are hurtful. If they weren’t hurtful, then this wouldn’t be an issue today.
I just don’t like bathos, it is the stuff of crass manipulation. The bathos that goes around, comes around. In this aspect, I actually prefer Sharpton’s approach, which is basically the same as the TZ approach: Fuck you.
I’m not shedding a tear because you called me a bad name, I’m standing up and saying that you are the one who is going to get injured by it, not me. Sharpton, of course, is a theatrical guy, and in this case, the idiot Imus just dealt him a royal flush.
mrmobi
You are welcome. Yesterday, Richard Bottoms was pretty eloquent himself on this issue in another thread. He mentioned MLK, and it made me think of how different our national dialogue on race might be if Dr. King was still on the scene.
ThymeZone
Of course it was a gaffe. Check your dictionary.
I think you are trying to make a different point, which is that Imus’ claim that he isn’t a racist, or is above racist language, is valid. I don’t buy either claim, actually. His history and his general use of language are the stuff of good old boy rednecks.
If Imus were just some construction worker shooting his mouth off on his lunch break …. who’d care? But a man in his position has a responsibility to be more careful with language. It’s the same thing I said about Bill Bennett’s fuckup: The “whoops” defense doesn’t cut it. If you are going to represent yourself as some kind of public figure and get paid a ton of money for doing it, then you are duty bound to avoid this kind of thing, and if you fail, then you should pay the consequences.
If Imus avoids this train wreck by avoiding the bad language even though he himself uses it in private, then …. that’s his privilege. I happen to think that what he did here was mistakenly cross that line (a classic gaffe, actually) and reveal himself for what he is: Not a racist, necessarily, but a fool, and a fool who has such a huge ego he thinks he should get away with it. Just like Bill Bennet, and for the same reason.
Thoughts?
John Cole
If being 67, a millionaire several dozen times over, and with a wife you love who just so happens to be several decades younger than you does not entitle a man to stand up and say “Fuck you, I am retiring” to his detractors, I don’t know what does.
Don’t confuse being in the right with what I would do. They are not always the same. If I were in his position, I would say to hell with it all and go lie on a beach while drinking fruity drinks and watching my kid grow up. Piss on the whole lot of you.
Rome Again
enhanced!
mrmobi
Actually, I saw the coach and one of the players this morning, and both of them lived up to what you just said.
However, I believe this is also true:
VidaLoca
numbskull nails it.
Imus injured himself — grievously, drastically. He still possibly could have recovered, though, just as he’s recovered before. That’s what all the calling in of chips from his friends over the past couple of days was about.
What was new this time out is that somebody (Sharpton, or someone around Sharpton, I gather) had the insight to realize that Imus had in this particular case hurt himself much worse than previously, and that these people had the juice to go out after Imus and bring him down. Local variables have a lot to do with this — Imus’ exposure in the New York/New Jersey media market, Imus’employment by NBC/GE, growing support for Sharpton in the NYC black/other minority/labor movement in the wake of the protests against killings of civilians by cops — in other words a “perfect storm” of circumstantial conditions that leads to “why Imus, why now?” Because they could, that’s why.
That’s how it’s done, people. You don’t have to like or respect Sharpton, you don’t have to think Imus is the devil, you don’t have to think it’s “fair” in the sense that there certainly are worse actors out there (think of it like wolves going after caribou if you want: the wolves don’t go after the biggest one or the strongest one, they go after the injured one).
Bottom line, if it makes the other caribou clean up their act out of fear of the wolves, for the rest of us who are getting pretty sick of the caribou schtick it’s a Good Thing.
Rome Again
What’s that got to do with anything? His ability to say “fuck you” comes from the fact that he’s a crass old man who made his mark in the business and won’t lose anything by walking away.
John Cole
You clearly have never watched or listened to Imus.
mrmobi
Nicely put, Vida.
“caribou schtick” sounds like a dance.
mrmobi
Ahhhh, the old “shit rolls downhill,” or “he who has the most gold makes the rules” canards.
ThymeZone
Well, his audience would EXPECT that he’d say something gratuitous about how their boobs were bouncing to his delight in the fourth quarter. That’s …. him.
That’s why people listen to him. To hear him cross those lines of correctness.
So, the old tightrope walker fell off the rope, just like Karl Wallenda. For basically the same reason, just made a bad judgement.
Thus do we now see Imus’ outline in the hood of a car below.
Too bad. I won’t miss him much.
tBone
Why? Idiocracy proved that flipping the bird is a perfectly acceptable way for conveying respect and great affection.
So nice to see people work out their differences in a mutually satisfactory way. Group hug!
Rome Again
Actually, he’ll gain me as a fan if I see him walk out the door… you know what they say, some people make others happy by leaving.
John Cole
I am n ot sure if I am not being clear or if you are just in a nitpicky mood (probably both, actually), but Imus doing what I have stated would in no way exonerate him for his remarks, and would not make him a better man, or any of that.
I am just telling you whatI would do. Extend my apologies to the young women I insulted, and then extend my middle finger to Al Sharpton and all the people calling for my head, and then extend my other middle finger to my corporate bosses, who reaped the benefit of me being edgy and saying very similar obnoxious shit for years, and now acting like I was somehow out of line.
And then I would go live a very, very comfortable life somewhere.
VidaLoca
Well obviously something’s amiss. Maybe they both ended up on the wrong blog or something; at any rate that’s not the way we handle disagreements here at Balloon Juice. Where’s the “leftist filth”? The “dishonest lying whackjobs”? The “speaking truth to power”?
grumpy realist
This also seems to have been the proverbial “straw that broke the camel’s back” because although Imu has been saying similar things for years (and getting called on the carpet for it), somehow…because of the young women involved, their obvious innocence, the racio-gyno-classist confabulation of the abuse….well, it was just a bit too much.
Over the line. A Perfect Storm.
And it couldn’t happen to a more deserving person. How many do you pull the “ha ha, just joking–won’t do it again” schtick before people cotton on to the fact that you’re never going to clean up your act?
Richard Bottoms
For the same reason I never gave a shit about Howard Stern.
Juvenille white boy humor is generaly of little appeal to black men.
gringoman
“Imus would not consider such an insult against a championship baskeball team made up of blonde white girls as remotely funny, but black women are easy targets for such an insult. And that’s the point.”
=============================================================
I don’t remember who made the comment above. But whoever it is, would they mind passing on their special knowledge of Imus to his blonde trophy wife, Deirdre? He calls her a “green ho'”. On the air.
Rome Again
Depends, are you a Democrat, or a Republican?
Richard Bottoms
Imus on PBS anchor Gwen Ifill circa 1995:
Fuck Imus, and anyone else who thinks he’s just a misunderstood crummudgen.
Jackie
Have any of you listened to the words in some Rap songs? Or hip-hop? Or so called “gangsta music?” Black artists demean women DAILY over the airwaves and no one blinks. The phrase Imus used is mild compared to some of the lyrics in todays music. I don’t condone what Imus said, and I don’t condone the verbiage used against women in much of today’s music. But I think Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson need to look within their own culture and see how many Black musicians verbally abuse women. It all sickens me.
Richard Bottoms
I’m sorry, was that the Imus in the Morning show or the Snopp Doog in the Morning show? I’m pretty sure it was Imus who made the comments and he will pay the price.
Jackie
I’m sorry, but are you saying Snoop Dog is allowed to demean women? Why?
Myrtle Parker
Hmm, all of you desperately clinging to the notion that Imus would have insulted a group of blondes just as handily as he did these young black women…
Why didn’t he insult the other team?
Why didn’t he insult the other team?
Why didn’t he insult the other team?
Why didn’t he insult the other team?
Why didn’t he insult the other team?
Why didn’t he insult the other team?
The Other Steve
So that makes it ok?
Last I checked Sharpton and Jackson aren’t rap artists… So how is it that this is their culture?
Is that just because they are black?
Stereotypes are wonderful, aren’t they? And false sincerity drips like poison.
The Other Steve
Because they won?
Richard Bottoms
Free Speech.
Imus is toast because the advertisers say so, not because the government says so.
I know it burns some folks to know that black people can say things white people can’t. But then, Elie Weisel can probably say things about Jews that I can’t.
We have an ethnic stew in this country that manages its outrages generally by demanding the economic head of the offender as opposed to his real head.
And, it works both ways:
That’s fine with me.
Rome Again
Awesome post RB.
Yup, and as long as people buy rap records demeaning women, rappers will keep making them. Don’t like it? Tough shit. By the way, I’m female, so don’t try any gender-baiting on me Jackie.
mrmobi
Howard Stern, another sad excuse for a human being.
As far as juvenile white boy humor, that’s pretty much of no appeal to anyone but juvenile white boys. Having been one once myself, I can’t say I cared much for it then, either.
I also find a lot of rap music pretty disgusting, Jackie, but whatever else that can be said about Sharpton and Jackson, I don’t think you can accuse them of misogyny. Just as I don’t believe they needed to come to the defense of these young women, It’s hardly their responsibility to try to change rap music.
mrmobi
I get you, John. And yes, I am kind of persnickity today.
Evorgleb
The whole thing with Imus is crazy. I honestly have very mixed feelings on the whole thing. One of the guys over at Highbrid Nation who actually worked with Imus at WFAN for years wrote a good article talking about Imus’ views on race from the perspective of a minority that was around him every day. You should check it out if you get a chance.
DougJ
I think “asshole” is much worse than “bitch.” Not sure I can explain why.
Because you’re a homophobe. A typical San Francisco homophobe.
RobR
Having worked as a broadcaster, allow me to say that the realities of broadcasting at Imus’s level are that he’s working under an iron-clad contract that, quite probably, exposes him to “damages” to CBS Radio in the event he breaches it, even if CBS intends to cancel his show anyway. So if he quits, he could owe money to CBS for depriving them of the income from his show. It’s very possible that a failure to follow orders to apologize on command could constitute a breach of contract.
And I guarantee you that there’s a strong non-compete clause and severability clause in the contract, which means that if he were to breach the contract, CBS would claim that the remainder of the contract is enforcible, and use the non-compete to sue him to keep him off the air at another broadcasting outlet. So a simple “Fuck you, I quit” is probably out of the question for him.
If Imus is smart, he’s got an Opie and Anthony clause in his contract that very specifically states under what circumstances CBS can breach the contract and fire him flat. If he does, CBS can cancel him, but he will continue to be paid for the remainder of his contract term. Of course, that would also mean he’d be unable to work for a cometing company during that term, which at 67 might effectively end his career.
Jackie
My comment about Sharpton and Jackson wasn’t to imply they are responsible for changing rap culture, but by not condemning the abuse of black women, they are condoning it.
I totally agree Imus shouldn’t have said what he said. But why is he being attacked more than Rush Limbaugh mocking Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s Disease? Or Ann Coulter calling Al Gore, John Edwards, Bill Clinton “faggots” or the equivalent? They are still doing “their thing” with no “two week time-out.”
I hate it when anyone is disrespectful to anyone else. I hate ethnic bashing. I hate gender bashing. I hate sexual orientation bashing. I would just like to see the outrage be consistent for all.
Richard Bottoms
Next.
Who says he is? The difference is black folks don’t give a shit about Limbaugh or Coulter. Also those two are not on NBC television.
Plus Gore, Edwards, and Clinton are millionaires quite able to defend themselves.
VidaLoca
Jackie,
Imus made a huge strategic error: in attacking the wrong set of victims he went over a line. He did so in an economic and political context in which he was vulnerable to a counter-attack. And finally (and probably most importantly) someone saw they had the juice to take a calculated risk in going out to nail his hide to the barn door.
Absent any of these three factors, Imus does his thing of apologizing and keeping his job. The combination did him in. I think we agree that that’s A Good Thing, but it’s not minimized in any way by the failure of others to Get Theirs: either they will change (not likely, since their behavior up to now has made both them and their sponsors a great deal of money) or they will screw up and then someone may have the opportunity (and note well, it does not happen automatically) to take them down. With Limbaugh, it will be drugs. With Coulter, it will be her constant need to trump her last performance with her big, braying mouth.
Not to disagree with you here, but free-floating outrage does not accomplish much.
Dulcie
What makes you think that Sharpton and Jackson don’t talk about the misogyny in rap music? I’ve head both of them talk about how some rap music demeans women. Both of them have been outspoken critics of the abuse of black women in our society.
Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter were attacked for their comments all over the MSM and right here on this very blog. The difference is that both Rush and Ann attacked public figures. The players from Rutgers are college students. I’d be offended by what Imus said if he’d attacked the Tennessee team. It’s not appropriate, and it’s not acceptable.
Yep, he’s done this before, but this was one time too many, IMHO.
I don’t care if he gets fired or not. The power of the purse (or wallet) will be what decides whether he stays or goes, and I think that’s as it should be.
Buck
I don’t know. They were black and he said they looked nice. Maybe it had something to do with the tattoos?
What kind of humor is generally appealing to black men?
Richard Bottoms
Something usually along the lines of ‘What is wrong with white people?’ Subjects also include girlfriends, wives, families, jobs. You know, life.
Picture Woody Allen, but with no insecurities about being able to fuck because, well you know…
Mostly doesn’t include farts and toilet humor, though. (Are white folks just unable to deal with the fact that people have to shit?)
Jackie
So it’s the all mighty dollar that rules. What’s new? I’ve been told repeatedly that I’m too idealistic for today’s world. That’s probably true. But, I will continue to raise my children to aim and vote for idealism. Maybe someday..
ThymeZone
Sorry, that was just too good a straight line to pass up, Richard.
grumpy realist
Jackie, let me explain a bit about the situation. All the people you mentioned have demonstrated on TV, print, or air their racism/sexism/stupidity/whatever. By a confluence of circumstances, the whole thing added up to a Perfect Storm for Imus. He has gotten to be too much of an embarrassment, as witnessed by the advertisers yanking their campaigns.
The others just haven’t had their Perfect Storm moments enough, although they do seem to keep trying to push themselves over the line. (I mean, what’s left for Ms. Coulter? About the only next thing I can see her do is call Barack Obama the N-word.)
And yeah, it’s all a Kabuki dance anyway. Shock jocks get listened to because their audiences like listening to them say outrageous things…which means advertisers want to put ads on the shows. But if it’s too outrageous, their being connected with the show backfires on the company. So they’re trying to find the sweet spot of a “controversial” character who pulls in listeners/viewers….but not too outrageous so as be tainted with the image of the controversial character.
So if you want to get Coulter, O’Reilly, etc. off the air, make a fuss, kick up a stink, write letters to the companies that have ads on their shows or in the newspapers that carry Coulter et al….how is just sitting there patting yourself on the back about being “too idealistic” and going to fix the situation, hmm? Bewailing the power of Mighty Mammon may be a nice feedgood reaction, but it’s people writing letters saying “I won’t buy your products if you continue to associate yourself with this racist sexist slob” that will get changes happening.
Dulcie
Thanks, Grumpy – that’s exactly the point I was trying to make.
VidaLoca
Jackie (and everyone else) —
For a rather nicely done takedown on Imus, see here: “He Hoped He Was Funny … And Failed”. To add to grumpy’s point above, the current situation proves that these people are vulnerable — and offers one roadmap to exploiting their vulnerabilities. Will it be the same in all cases? Of course not. But if there’s a way to get at one of them, there will be a way to get at another of them.
Also (all) — while you’re there leave some love for Gilly.
Richard Bottoms
Imus is off MSNBC effective immediately.
Snap!
Richard 23
Looks like the other Richard beat me to it.
MSNBC drops simulcast of Don Imus show.
Judy
As a momma, who loves her sons dearly, after watching the Rutgers girls yesterday, I was envious of their parents. Rap music might say HO but not pertaining to the basketball team at Rutgers. Imus should not pick on someones child.
John Cole
So MSNBC dumped Imus, and the world will not change one bit. Well- Sharpton and company will be a touch more insufferable. The funny thing is that yesterday, Richard said something really quite interesting:
Imus is canned, and the cause of civil rights was not advanced one bit. Kinda sad to see people sell themselves out for such marginal ‘victories.’ I guess if it makes a few people feel better.
Richard Bottoms
I think the Rutgers team would disagree.
Who knows, perhaps the excesses of rap might get a fresh look, at least at the major labels.
Even a stopped analog clock is right twice a day.
Anyway, Sharpton, Jackson, and Imus and old men whose time has passed.
What 16 year old gives a damn what any of them think?
John Cole
The best case scenario for advancing civil rights in this current imbroglio would have been less Sharpton, and more of those girls speaking for themselves.
They were pretty god damned impressive.
As it is, Imus is gone, attitudes have not changed at all and the only thing that has happened is maybe shock jocks will be a touch morecareful with masking their slurs. Or since, far worse offenders never get called to their carpet and are still in good standing, maybe not even that.
Richard Bottoms
You just don’t get that Rev. Al is only important to the white folks he irritates. He’s a bogeyman just like Farrakhan was and Jesse Jackson before him.
In an age where Snoop Dogg tells Bill O’Reilly to suck his dick on TV in Europe do you really think these old like preachers matter?
You think some young black MBA at Stanford gives a hoot in hell about Al Sharpton, Twana Brawley, or whatever warmed over racial incident sticks in your craw? Last I heard, he lost in court and the man Sharpton slandered was vindicated.
Get over it.
Judy
MSM puts on Sharpton, but he’s not the story, nor is rap music because I’m not sure there is one song mentioning the Rutgers basketball team as being ho’s; but it’s we have lost our true values as a nation. It’s not Janet Jackson’s boobs but it is for respect for ourselves and our country men.
Buck
Had it not been for Sharpton those girls would have never even known what Imus said. Hopefully now they can go back to enjoying their second place finish.
As for me I guess I’ll have to find another program to wake up to in the mornings.
Does Sharpton do any AM radio?
Bombadil
I have long thought that Imus was a jerk, but never paid much attention to him. I wasn’t surprised by what he said, and wondered why everyone was so upset this time.
I understand why the upset now.
VidaLoca
John,
They were impressive indeed. As was their coach. But you have to give Sharpton some credit too, because no matter your opinion of him, if he does nothing the girls in all probability go down as more victims in the string of victims. Like Gwen Ifill. Like the Williams sisters. Building up the public outcry, embarrasssing the sponsors and prying them off, getting NBC to cancel — takes organization, experience, and leadership that just does not pop up spontaneously overnight.
Imus was a target of opportunity — he made a disastrous blunder, he was on thin ice with his meal ticket because of his past history of similar blunders, he was vulnerable in his market. Sharpton saw an opening and moved to take him down. Imus wasn’t the biggest, or the worst of the offenders — he was the weakest. So moving on him first made perfect sense.
Sharpton’s success in doing so increases his clout in the next fight he chooses. More importantly it provides a specific model for anyone else choosing to take on a similar fight and it provides a basis for optimism among everyone else who wants to take up this fight, that such an effort can be successful.
VidaLoca
Yes. It’s commonplace to talk about the successes of MLK and the Civil Rights movement but the interesting part of Richard’s point was in suggesting a vision of how history might have gone had King never lived.
One of the most provocative comments I’ve read at BJ. Thx Richard.
Captain Avatar
Having been born in the seventies, I never agreed to any such pact. So if you’re really prepared to follow up on your not-so-subtle threat of physical violence, let’s dance motherfucker.
The thing is though, having grown up in a mixed neighborhood, I’m not sure if Mr. Bottoms is bluffing. I distinctly recall as a teenager having a black guy, who was the younger brother of an actual gang banger, put a 22 pistol to my head and threaten to kill me. Obviously that was terrifying as I had no way of knowing that this was apparently what the guy did for kicks. He enjoyed terrorizing white guys.
I also remember going to a barber shop, which was frequented and run by blacks, to get my hair cut. I went there because it was convenient and the guy who cut my hair did a good job. One day, an older black man called me white trash. My barber was obviously embarrased and uncomfortable, but he said nothing. I can’t say I blame him, it is evident to me that plenty of blacks such as Mr. Bottoms believe that white people are not entitled to respect and should just be happy blacks don’t start a race war.
I don’t much care whether some silly old guy who I never listened to is just a stupid jerk or a scourge on society threatening to bring down The Republic. I won’t miss him. On the other hand, if any of busybody communist pricks fuck with Dave Chappelle, Howard Stern or Snoop… it’s on. You get to read/listen to your left wing hippy bullshit, so don’t fuck with my gansta lean.
The whole black/white thing is always blamed on “whitey”. But I think there’s perhaps a bit of responsibility for this on the hands of folks like Mr. Bottoms, who believe (and this is rarely challenged in polite company) that they are entitled to treat white people like shit until the end of time because people in Memphis let a bad man be Mayor 10 years before I was born.
Captain Avatar
A follow up, and this should really go without saying…
I’ve met plenty of totally badass black people in my thirty odd years on this planet who aren’t in the least bit interested in scoring political points off of racism or anything else. Some of them sometimes admit that black people can be their own worst enemies.
But of plenty of white people are stupid dickheads and they have to deal with that bullshit all the time. They don’t tolerate it and they shouldn’t et cetera.
Guilt trip politics are tiresome. And ultimately counterproductive.
Richard Bottoms
>One of the most provocative comments I’ve read at BJ. Thx >Richard.
No problemo.
Some folks just take for granted we were never going to be Bosnia or Algeria. But there’s a reason Emmett Till was hung.
As one other poster pointed out, the reality of my suffering a similar fate in 1965 was pretty miniscule, but it didn’t feel that way to me at 10 years old. The Klan was a bogeyman that existed and there were pictures to prove it.
Terrorism works.
So in 1965 when a group of strong black men came along saying we’ll show you how to ensure that shit doesn’t happen to you, it is no surprise a lot of us said hell yeah.
Fortunately for the country MLK suggested another path, non-violent resistance.
He saved us. He saved us all.
BTW, if you want to know why 20 million people despise the Republican party you have only to remember the debates leading to making Martin Luther King’s birthday a holiday.
It wasn’t until that point that I swore I would rather eat glass before voting for the GOP for anything. Ever.
Imus is one of those embarassments that pop up on our side of the political fence now and then. Well he’s gone now.
(Also once Robert Byrd kicks the bucket the Dixiecrat era will be fully buried. We have no love for him but there is a place for reconcilliation.)
Meanwhile America’s Mayor (that is the part of America that doesn’t look like Amadu Diallo) is contorting himself around the Confederate Flag issue.
Heh. Heh.
Daniel DiRito
Frankly, we are fast becoming the epitome of a Jerry Springer society. It seems to have become more important to have an audience and notoriety when confronting conflict than it is to attain resolve and mutual respect. That model seems to serve the needs of the exploited and those who seek to exploit; reinforcing all that relegates objectivity to the outhouse while making the frailty and imperfection of the human condition a spectacle that harkens back to the Coliseum.
This situation isn’t and shouldn’t be about whether liberals or conservatives, this race or that race, hip hop or honky-tonk, one group or another, are more offensive and therefore more responsible for all that is wrong with America. I am not capable of judging the whole of Don Imus nor am I capable of crafting a recipe to fix all of America…and neither are the countless pundits and partisans who have sought to frame it so.
I’m not a religious person…but I often find kinship with the imagery surrounding the portrayal of one called Jesus and his teachings of understanding and forgiveness. For all the banter I hear about the Bible and Christian values, it certainly seems to me that we are fast abandoning what many view as the sacred “tablets” in favor of the sacrosanct tabloids. If I’m right, all I can say is heaven help us.
Read more about the dynamics that lead a situation to become larger than the sum of its parts…here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
Newport 9
Shorter John Cole: Man, I hate being on the same side as Al Sharpton.
BTW, John, I applaud your ability to put “Ana Marie Cox” and “insert” in the same sentence in a non-anal-sex-related context.
mrmobi
Well, this white person didn’t get that from his posts at all.
Hmmm, a spoof and a fake black person, cool!
Nice reduction of the Civil Right Movement to one bad mayor there, skippy. For someone who lived among blacks you don’t seem to have learned anything about them.
You seem to have a problem with the fact that there are some racist black people. News flash, there are racists of all stripes. Just because someone black pitches you some attitude, it does not follow that it necessarily comes from racism. You might, for instance, be a prick, or a racist yourself.
You know, it is a free country. In private, Don Imus is allowed to say whatever the fuck he wants to. On the airwaves (which are owned by us) he isn’t. Calling him on his foul remarks is not “guilt trip politics” it’s common decency. I have no particular hatred of Imus, I don’t have to watch or listen to him, but when we passively accept the string of insults, hatred and, yes, racism, that talk radio is, we lower ourselves. It’s good to see people take a stand.
KCinDC
John, the complaint in the update makes no sense unless you’ve actually been on Imus’s show in the past, as Cox has been on multiple occasions.
mrmobi
I also will not appear on Imus. And, I am Spartacus.
Captain Avatar
So you have to have dark skin to have a gangsta lean?
Chris Rock is right, black people are the most racist people in the world.
.
Since my ancestors were slaves of the Roman Empire, I am deeply offended (scared for life, actually) that you make jokes about that dark abhorrent practice. I think you could use a little sensitivity training.
Tim in SF
Hmmm. My gay S.O. of four years would probably get a kick out of that.
Actually, now that I think about it, I don’t know if I’ve even met a single homophobe since living here. Any ‘phobes who live in the City are probably smart enough to keep their mouths’ shut. Perhaps you have some private definition you’re not sharing.
As for why “asshole” is worse than “bitch,” I think I’ve figured it out: “asshole” is a conversation ender. “Bitch” is not.
The b-word liberally spices many of the conversations between my friends and me. It can be used interchangeably with “touché,” to express exasperation, or also in the traditional sense of a female (or a gay guy friend) who is exhibiting “asshole” like behavior.
Well… at least in my neighborhood. Your mileage may vary.