Lawyer Adam Cohen in the New York Times (formatting his):
[T]he administration has been strangely successful in pushing its message that the scandal is at worst a political misdeed, not a criminal matter.It is true, as the White House keeps saying, that United States attorneys serve “at the pleasure of the president,” which means he can dismiss them whenever he wants. But if the attorneys were fired to interfere with a valid prosecution, or to punish them for not misusing their offices, that may well have been illegal.
[…] 1. Misrepresentations to Congress. The relevant provision, 18 U.S.C. § 1505, is very broad. It is illegal to lie to Congress, and also to “impede” it in getting information. Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty indicated to Congress that the White House’s involvement in firing the United States attorneys was minimal, something that Justice Department e-mail messages suggest to be untrue.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales made his own dubious assertion to Congress: “I would never, ever make a change in a United States attorney position for political reasons.”
[…] 2. Calling the Prosecutors. As part of the Sarbanes-Oxley reforms, Congress passed an extremely broad obstruction of justice provision, 18 U.S.C. § 1512 (c), which applies to anyone who corruptly “obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so,” including U.S. attorney investigations.
[…] 3. Witness Tampering. 18 U.S.C. § 1512 (b) makes it illegal to intimidate Congressional witnesses. Michael Elston, Mr. McNulty’s chief of staff, contacted one of the fired attorneys, H. E. Cummins, and suggested, according to Mr. Cummins, that if he kept speaking out, there would be retaliation. Mr. Cummins took the call as a threat, and sent an e-mail message to other fired prosecutors warning them of it. Several of them told Congress that if Mr. Elston had placed a similar call to one of their witnesses in a criminal case, they would have opened an investigation of it.
[…]4. Firing the Attorneys. United States attorneys can be fired whenever a president wants, but not, as § 1512 (c) puts it, to corruptly obstruct, influence, or impede an official proceeding.
That should help explain why somebody leaked to US News and World Report about panic and paralysis at the DOJ.
The fear that virtually any piece of communication will have to be turned over has paralyzed department officials’ ability to communicate effectively and respond in unison to the crisis, as has the fact that senior Justice officials themselves say they still don’t know the entire story about what happened that led to the crisis. So they are afraid that anything they put down on paper could be viewed as lies or obfuscation, when in fact, the story is changing daily as new documents are found and as the Office of Legal Counsel conducts its own internal probe into the matter.
Depending on your reading one might feel tempted to sympathize, David Broder-like, with the mess in which Gonzales and his appointees have found themselves. If that in fact was the article’s intent, it is hard to imagine a more thorough dereliction of the basic principle of causality and personal responsibility.
Revisit this sentence: senior Justice officials themselves say they still don’t know the entire story about what happened that led to the crisis. Plainly either senior officials know full well the story behind how eight of their US Attorneys got fired, or else we have one of the most dysfunctional Departments of Justice in US history. The message is either a steaming pile of damage control or yet one more indictment of our current government.
Of course the two possibilities hardly exclude each other. Senior managers routinely overrule career lawyers in politically charged cases, suggesting that the DOJ’s role as a neutral arbiter of justice subsumed to the Republican policy agenda long ago. By now we should recognize that when political considerations win out in a federal department, dysfunction follows like water flows downhill.
So of course DOJ is in disarray. The DOJ has been in disarray since the president appointed his own lawyer to the Attorney General job, and probably since Ashcroft (or not?). Like the rest of government they seem to have believed their own rhetoric and felt that Republican Congressional majorities would go on blocking oversight forever.
Again, none of this should be the least bit surprising. Removing accountability always leads to lax behavior. People cut corners, fudge reports and miss filing requirements because human nature does not include a drive to keep up with time-consuming crap unless some punishment exists for not doing it. Political hacks always do a worse job than career professionals because their career doesn’t advance on doing the job right, it moves forward if the results have the right political odor. Mix accountability-free government with political hackery of the first degree and the question of government functioning without screwing up, wrecking protocol and breaking the law becomes a mathematical impossibility.
Take this anecdote for example. In a meeting with skeptical Senators Gonzales at first dismisses them entirely, then loses his nerve and ends in a state of near panic. It might be the first time that Gonzales has experienced real accountability and he has no idea how to deal with it.
Document dumps like today’s emails will cause particular heartburn for the DOJ because the relevant actors didn’t even conspire to break a specific law. At least in that case they would know their own potential jeapordy. Instead Gonzales and his appointees merely acted as if the law (or at least the less obvious laws) didn’t exist. So in a sense it may be perfectly true that they have no real idea what kind of trouble they’re in. Try to understand if my first reaction is to point and laugh.
***
As a sidebar, don’t miss this story about the great vote fraud case on which Washington US Attorney Tom McKay supposedly lost his standing with the DOJ. It’s pretty funny.
pharniel
Millons of dollars and thousands of man-hours later….and they loose 4 votes.
now that’s typcial government.
ThymeZone
This is starting to look like a major implosion.
What a complete surprise, that these guys would fuck things up so badly.
This could never have been anticipated.
Zifnab
So, if I’m to read this correctly, the DOJ doesn’t know the exact degree of shit their in because they are not familiar enough with the laws that they have broken.
There has to be a better word for this than Irony. Something more explose, the sort of phrase you’d see in a blockbuster movie title, that explains the hilaritude this encompasses.
Dreggas
Inconceivable!
– The princess bride
Dreggas
My bad I saw this as a movie quote.
As for a movie title:
Lie Hard
It was an administration on the edge. Filled with lackeys and cronies and up against an implacable Foe…the Subpoena they wouldn’t just roll-over and Lie they’d Lie Hard.
Quiddity
I agree with ThymeZone. This is looking really bad. It’s not clear where this is headed, though. What would be interesting to see, is if any of the current USAs start speaking out. So far, they’ve all been mum.
curtadams
The real problem is not even the US Attorney business but the many *other* things DOJ has undoubtedly done illegally or to obstruct justice. Want to bet there’s other pressuring of US attorneys in some of the emails? How about plans for illegal wiretapping and God knows what else that been done under “signing statements”. They were wiretapping for a reason – are all the illegal wiretaps excluded from email? Not likely. When you have an operation as corrupt as this, every question answered will raise two new questions.
Jon H
Ha – it’s like they made the mistake of trying to operate like a banana republic dictatorship, but forgot that we still have functional laws in place.
Zifnab
Hey, its an easy mistake to make. For the past 6 years I honestly wasn’t sure if we did said laws did in fact function.
Zifnab
haha. That actually kinda works.
Jon H
Gonzales is really doing his ethnic group any favors. Put him in power, and he acts just like the dictators of Latin America.
I’m somewhat surprised he didn’t adopt a military uniform as AG.
Jon H
“*isn’t* doing his ethnic group any favors”, that is.
JoeTx
K A R M A
Pb
Now here’s a remarkable coincidence…
Punchy
Fixed.
monkey boy
It’s only a matter of time before there’s a signing statement from Bush, in which telling the truth under oath to Congress will just be ‘advisible’ and ‘subject to considerations of national security and/or the Republican party’
BTW, Johnny Marshall’s been a one-man wrecking crew with the story. The guy deserves a Peabloggy, or however you combine blogging and Peabodys…
Tlaloc
“There has to be a better word for this than Irony.”
Hyper-rony? Ironius Maximus? Phantasmagorical?
Yeah, I like “phantasmagorical.”
Jon H
This is what happens when the Rapture runs late.
You just know Bush is on his knees, praying “C’mon Jesus! You told me you’d be back by now!”
Jake
Gigli?
Dude. Please. Shut the fuck up. This is America, where anyone with enough money, power or will to fuck, suck and cajole his way to the top, can be a filthy fucking pig.
Richatd Bottoms
Actually it’s looking great. Pass the popcorn.
I think secretly John may be pleased we told him George Bush was a fucking liar and gigantic dickhead back in late 2003.
He got so pissed at us that when the truth became obvious, his disappointment with the GOP was quite profound, and he has mostly abandonded the party. That seems like a very smart move now.
Though he still posts silly shit about how Hillary is so exasperating ( think Miguelito Loveless ) for reasons that can’t quite be stated, it is becoming quite clear the Republicans are heading for a giant steaming crater in November 2008.
Darrell
This story on McKay is more telling and fact filled. Pretty clear he didn’t do his job.
Darrell
Nah, couldn’t be that. Just keep ignoring all facts and stick with the Bush ‘lackey’ narrative.
KCinDC
Clearly the DOJ needs to be taking tips from the drug crews on “The Wire”. Maybe use beepers to contact each other and discuss things only face to face, never on the phone, and certainly never put anything in writing.
Face
Really??!? (re-checks credit card bill, applies chapstick, grabs condoms…)
Otto Man
I came here just to see how Darrell would spin his way out of the story. The answer? A local blogger says it’s not so! In a post that cites his own writings as evidence! Case closed!
You know, Darrell, when posts here are tagged “Republican Stupidity,” that doesn’t mean you absolutely have to make a post to illustrate the concept.
srv
Another local replies to the Darrell Conspiracy Theory:
I’m sure they were all conspiring so they could become the darlings of the King County establishment.
Darrell
Hey, I knew you lowlifes are predisposed to ignore all facts to the contrary, despite the fact that in this case, the “local blogger” provided extensive citations and photocopies to back up the allegations. No, you don’t dispute his facts, you just make personal smears.
But because so many of you truly are sacks of sh*t, you’ll just piss on any evidence and all facts no matter how valid, if they conflict with the narrative that you’re pushing. It’s dishonest to the core, but it’s who so many of you are.
ThymeZone
Is this where John comes in and says that this vomitus on the blog is my fault?
Just trying to figure out the protocol.
Darrell
srv, the problems are centered around King County’s corruption, as none of the data presented in that link was presented or even known during the trial.
But you’re dishonestly trying to make it as wingnuts accusing some grand conspiracy, when it boils down to sandbagging discovery requests and stonewalling public records requests until it was too late to obtain those facts in the trial.
No giant conspiracy. Just a very corrupt King County Democratic run establishment.
Tsulagi
Actually, since McKay declined to bring the case, the Republican party and their candidate had to pay the millions they spent. Which is probably the real issue they had with McKay. Not having the federal government pick up the Pub tab makes you a bad apple.
The Other Andrew
If you think the public is entitled to documents from the government, shouldn’t you not be a big fan of the current administration, then?
Tim F.
Not true. The writer focused on King County without giving any attention to whether other counties had similar irregularities. If the other counties had a similar level of errors/fraud/whatever then it suggests what we already know – voting is a messy process and rife with errors. Would that it weren’t so, but no county in America has an unblemished voting record.
If the author could show that King County was unusual for similar counties, or that a specific allegation of partisan vote corruption had any basis whatsoever, then you would have a point. He’s not there yet.
Dreggas
Looks like the admin is sticking the knives in before the turkey is fully cooked
Choice bit:
Imagine the fun that will be had with these 2.
RSA
Funny, this sounds like a description of a very recent trial that resulted in multiple felony convictions. And as Tim F.’s post suggests, the Republicans’ case was carefully considered.
So conspiracy theorists have to blame more than McKay: a Superior Court judge and the FBI are in on it, too.
Jackmormon
In all seriousness, why the hell are they conducting themselves so sleazily when all of their emails are being recorded? Either they never learned the appropriate laws and ethical standards, their ability to obey those laws and standards atrophied under a Republican Congress, or they don’t believe there will ever be consequences for their behavior.
Jeez, these assholes have so little imagination for what can go wrong.
Dreggas
They tried which is why TPM as well as CREW have pointed out that they were using non-official email addresses in official communications, of course they even screwed that up because someone sent the emails from the unofficial addresses to an official address.
Incompetent even when it comes to corruption.
Ted
I love it when he starts shrieking like a banshee.
Bubblegum Tate
Ironically enough, by avoiding judical activism, he became a Librul Activist Judge(tm).
Tsulagi
Easy to see why they’ve pushed “voter fraud” cases. Also loyalty. Loyalty as defined by this admin. That might have played some factor in USAs opening investigations on Dem politicians in a 5:1 ratio compared to Pubs.
Those kind of cases generate headlines and news items for months. Even if they ultimately and quietly go nowhere or are bogus, people remember the headlines. Like the supposed WA voter fraud that stole an election wingnuts still cite even though a court called bullshit.
Plus, and just as importantly, you make the other guy spend his money. On the US Attorney side, the government picks up the tab. Drain the other guy’s resources so he has less money to do things like say win elections. It’s all good.
Jackmormon
Dreggas, yeah, I read about that, but I thought that the unofficial email stuff was few in number and that the official email stuff was already enough to hang them. Anyway, they needed Stringer Bell to sort out their security: too late now.
RSA
You have to wonder. But consider this line in an email from Kyle Sampson to Harriet Miers:
They seem to take care when it comes to the really incriminating stuff.
DougJ
Why do any of you bother responding to Darrell? Why? Why? Why?
Rusty Shackleford
Don’t poke the jackalope!
Pooh
I think we are seeing, first-hand, an
evolutionintelligentre-design of the Darrell playbook. Step one, cite to an obviously shoddy and/or partisan and or non-existent source. Step two, wait five minutes for 7 or 8 commenters to call shennenigans on the, you know, obvious shennanigans. Step 3:Which of course brings us to the final act, the touchdown dance if you will, at the end of any well-executed play.
Another chance to bash, en masse. Well-played, in a it’s own way.
Pooh
Obviously, ignore the second strikethrough above…
ThymeZone
You aren’t serious, are you Dougster?
Ted
To hear the pet bark on command.
jake
A tip: Hang out in or near the Executive Washroom.
Good luck!
Tulkinghorn
It is a good measure of how the discourse machine a/k/a ‘mighty wurlitzer a/k/a blastfax talkingpoints system is working. It is a rare, clear window into how the Bushies consider the severity of their problems:
If D comes up with logical but irrelevant points, you know the administration is making a big rhetorical push in order to deflect an issue for a few news cycles, e.g.: “no underlying crime”.
If D comes up with shamelessly tendentious and intellectually dishonest argument, it means there is no good defense to be had, and they hope the press false for the false equivalence fallacy, and gives their nonsense equal time.
If D comes out slinging the rhetorical feces, then it means they know they are screwed, screwed, screwed. The anger, bitterness, petty and not-so-petty viciousness are revealed. This is when the rest of us should watch out, as the assholes may do something rash, like getting a gun or invading a country.
But this is the trick: D rarely slips into stage 3 early on, so you need to poke the sick dog a few times to see if it will throw up, pee on the floor, or poop itself as a reaction. Then you know how sick it really is.
Krista
For the same reason people pick at scabs. You know it’s not a good thing to do, you know it’s going to just make things worse, and you know that afterwards, you’ll be thinking, “why did I not just leave it alone?” But at the time, it’s like a horrible compulsion. Subconsciously, you think that things will be different this time.
Don’t the Chinese define insanity as doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result? I guess we’re all completely insane, then, as we keep thinking that maybe…just maybe…if presented with enough evidence, fact and reason, Darrell will smack his forehead and say, “My God, you people are right! What I just said didn’t make any sense! I am a contrary douchebag who delights in nothing more than throwing anybody who disagrees with me into a convenient little mental file cabinet titled “The Left”. I need serious help!”
srv
Nicely said.
Darrell
It was a vote decided by 129 votes, where extreme Dem corruption like in King County made the difference. Do you care about honest vote counts Tim? Seriously. You seem far more eager to discredit legit sources rather than seek truth. That’s the mark of a committed hack.
Darrell
Hey, I’ve made valid points here today. Because the majority of you are such extreme hacks, you ignore and piss upon valid evidence because it conflicts with your narrative. sorry that I find such blatenty dishonesty on your parts collectively to be dishonorable. If you want to refute those facts, please do so. None have so far. Which tells me that most of you truly are dishonest to the fucking core. Not sure how you live with yourselves. No doubt you tell yourselves how “good” you are. Pathetic, and delusional as hell.
Darrell
Here is where you dishonest lowlifes descend into your comfort zone. Facts don’t matter, truth doesn’t matter. I’m sorry, but most of you are pure f*cking moral scum. Doubt me? Read your own words.
Tom in Texas
Can’t speak for everyone, but as for me, I offer the same excuse I offered my roomate in college when I brought home a freeway sign 7 feet across to hang on our wall:
“It seemed like a good idea after 6 or 7 beers.”
DougJ
You’ve convinced me.
Darrell
Leftists here, having presented zero objection over the stolen election in Washington where the dead were caught voting Dem with 900 convicted in King County alone. Any one of you vermin who approve of what happened in WA but scream at the FL vote recount which was thoroughly investigated by state officials, Feds, US civil rights commission, the media and DOJ.. those of you who screamed over FL but show zero concern over WA are pure f*cking 100% moral scum.
Oh I’m sure you’ll object to this characterization, but it fits, and so many of you vermin know it.. deep down in your black hearts.
Ted
You’re operating under the assumption that your “facts” are worth the time responding to. Since they’re not, you’re missing the real reason why no one will engage your bullshit.
Darrell
900 convicted felons caught voting in King County alone
Zifnab
For some reason part of my brain told me that it would get me laid. That has yet to bear out, but by god my neighborhood has alot fewer freeway signs.
Darrell
If you scumbags who bitched over the 200 FL elections had even one ounce of honor, you would be demanding an investigation into the stolen election in Washington. But truth is, note one soul here has an ounce of honor, and for that reason you don’t raise one eyebrow of objection over what happened in Washington, facts be damned. That’s why I call you scum. Is there really any honest doubt that someone who screamed over FL (thoroughly investigated, zero fraud) but ignores WA where serious voter fraud occurred is anything but scum? What else to call them? Do decent and honorable people act like that?
Hell no they don’t.
Darrell
Obviously, 2000 FL elections
srv
He must have made his mommy cry alot as a kid. Probably got beat up alot after insisting Eisenhower, MacArthur and all those Admirals were moonbats for not thinking nuking Japan was necessary.
srv
No, moral scum is someone who would have done something completely different if Bush v. Gore had ended up 600 votes the other way. You didn’t care about what happened in FL or OH, so what makes you consistent about caring for WA?
Hey Darrell, re “moral”. I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
ThymeZone
Same here, but it was a condom machine from the bar down the street. Two friends ripped it off the wall and I volunteered to put it up in our room.
demimondian
Look, Darrell, the “editor” of _Sound Politics_ is a recent graduate of the High School one of my kids attends. He’s eager, enthusiastic, and loyal to the Party.
It’s just that…well, he’s not very *smart*. Does that in itself make his report wrong? Well, just so you’ll have something to misquote, no, it doesn’t. It makes me skeptical, but it’s hardly evidence against the report’s accuracy.
However, the fact that he ignored the allegations of racially targeted voter harassment in the Eastern part of the state, intended to suppress the Democratic vote over there, that he ignored the fact that the Republican Party lost every subsequent appeal, and the fact that the Republican Secretary of State wouldn’t touch the case…those do disqualify his report.
Some of us live in Washington State, and while you may be able to hope to fake out people who don’t know anything about Washington politics, you aren’t going to be able to fake us out.
Now, go outside and play.
demimondian
You know, that’s not fair. It’s not that he’s not smart, but rather that his judgment is not mature yet. He’s a good kid, likable, and all that, but…he’s just a kid, and he still makes a kid’s mistakes.
Andrew
You mean, like having a US Attorney and the FBI electoral fraud task force investigate?
sglover
Jay-zus H. Key-rist, “darrell” — in my neck of the woods, whenever there’s sleazy tactics come up in an election, it’s almost invariably an operation designed to suppress Democratic votes. For instance, last November, (heavily Democratic) Baltimore saw mysterious flyers popping up all over town, listing the date of the ballot a day or a week later than it was.
By the way, fuckwit — if this Washington election is really so scandalous, why aren’t your elected GOP tools trying to get more mileage out of it? God knows it usually takes a lot less to get them lathered up. How come they’re not rushing to the aid of poor Alberto, twit?
RSA
See, government just doesn’t work [when Republicans are in charge]. It make you wonder why they want so much to be running the show. Well, not really. There is influence to be peddled, after all.
Darrell
In the overwhelming number of cases involving voter fraud, whether it’s dead indians voting Dem, Philadelphia fraud, Wisconsin, etc. it’s almost ALWAYS Dem voting fraud, not Republican. But I’m not surprised in the least that you were too stupid and too ignorant to know the facts. It’s what keeps so many voting Dem.
Darrell
Except that King county, as well as the state of WA, is run and controlled by corrupt DEMS
garyb50
Even the dead hate Republicans.
Darrell
He’s a degreed computer engineer. If you “know” what you’re talking about, how old are you alleging that S. Sharkansky is? Or will this be like usual, where demi, when called on his bullshit, slinks away as usual, without ever admitting how full of shit he is
demimondian
They tried. They tried desperately. Then, they failed. Miserably.
The Republican party is in turmoil here. Maria Cantwell was widely seen as vulnerable, and yet she won in several normally-Republican counties in Eastern Washington. They barely held on to Reichart’s seat in Bellevue, which had been viewed as Republican-by-right for half a century. They’re terrified that they’ll lose more city councils in Eastern Washington, and there’s a real chance that they might lose Doc Watson’s seat on the Olympic Peninsula in 2008.
In a way, Christine Gregoire’s victory in 2004 is the best possible evidence of that. She was a wretched candidate, who did her level best to lose to Dino Rossi, who was the best Republican gubernatorial candidate in fifteen years. If they couldn’t win then, they’re in a death spiral.
RSA
That would make a nice horror movie.
Darrell
Hey demi you’re a proven lying sack of shit. Here is a photo of S. Sharkansky. Look at him. That’s him standing up. He’s no kid, he’s at a minimum mid-30’s, probably closer to 40. Some high school “kid” like you said, huh?
You’ve been busted being a lying asshole again demi. Busted completely. But you’re such a scumbag, like so many other leftists you’ll never own up to your lies as usual. You’re scum, you’re busted. Not much else to say about you, except no wonder someone like you votes Dem.
Darrell
Oh my, whata surprise that demi the lefist would lie his fucking ass off again. Most of you really are pure scum. No honor code, zero integrity, lie whenever convenient.. just pure scum. This is BJ leftist example #46,889
Punchy
Darrell, what are you talking about? Since when does a felony conviction disqualify you from voting?
Oh yeah, it doesn’t. Next?
ThymeZone
Welp, whoever is writing the failed Darrell character is now in complete meltdown.
John, Tim, behold your “policy” and its product.
Good job, really.
Jimmy Mack
Bullshit, moonbat fuckhead. I didn’t ay anything about disqualifying felons. I said.
Why don’t you try reading Darrell’s posts instead of just pulling nonsense out of your ass? Oh, wait, you can’t because you’re a moonbat.
sglover
But I’m not surprised in the least that you were too stupid and too ignorant to know the facts. It’s what keeps so many voting Dem.
Heh. Wasn’t so long ago that hiveminders like you were talking about the “permanent Republican majority”. Suddenly everybody turned stupid? Why do you hate the American people so, lickspittle?
Oh, and I was talking about actual events in my own state, fuckwit. You’re in no position to talk to ANYBODY about “facts”, lickspittle. I know the fever dreams seem awfully vivid, but that doesn’t make them real.
Now shut the fuck up, asshole.
Punchy
Then explain, Mr. Spoof, what’s so suspicious about 900 fels voting? What, exactly, is the basis of voting fraud charge vis-a-vis fel voting?
sglover
Time to check those meds, eh, sockpuppet?
Darrell
In most cases in WA state? Yes
Lookie here at what Dem vermin have done in 2005, too little too late:
Really, where are the principled Dems who are willing to stand up to real voter fraud? As has been proven beyond a shadow of doubt here at BJ, most of the leftists here are moral vermin who object to voter fraud ONLY if it can help Dems. If through fraud a Dem is elected, not a peep. Moral scum no question.
sglover
Time to check those meds, eh, sockpuppet?
ThymeZone
In Arizona, the felon can get his voting rights back once he has completed his sentence and complied with all its terms. Convicted felons vote legally here.
Punchy
WTF??? Prove it with a link. I just showed you that in WA, you can vote post-incarceration. Show us the link that says otherwise.
Or else I’ll just assume you’re making up shit.
ThymeZone
It’s a continuous, ongoing process. In my county, we remove hundreds of names from voter registration rolls every month. Cleanup never stops. A very tedious job that is never finished.
AkaDad
With the current ratio of Republican to Democratic felons, I’d conclude that 850 of those 900 felons were Republicans. =]
Jimmy Mack
Bite me, you Troskite scum. I never said that. Check the comments if your Kos-addled braiin still has enough brain cells to read.
Pb
So… how ’bout that ongoing US attorney scandal. I hear they released more documents and stuff.
Richard 23
I’d be interested in seeing a link to an article about those 900 dead people who were convicted for voting Dem in King County. Seems like a waste of resources. Were any of them thrown into county lockup?
If so, are they still rotting in jail? Yuck.
ThymeZone
Best line of the day, by far.
Fruitbat
Wait a minute. Something odd happened back at the 10:56pm mark of this thread. Jimmy Mack tried to refute something Punchy said by quoting an earlier Darrell post. But in JM’s post, he seems to refer to himself as the author of the post he quotes from Darrell.
Is this an unintentional admission that Jimmy Mack and Darrell are the same person? It might explain why there are two posts back-to-back (at about 10:33) labeled “Darrell” which seem to say the exact same thing for no discernable reason.
Of course, if it’s already been established that the same person posts under both names, then my bad for missing it. When you have so many posts by the two of them fit to ignore, you tend to lose track of piddling details like who’s spoofing whom.
ThymeZone
Might be. I think the liklihood of Darrell being spoof is fairly high. As for Jimmy, he could be just deliberately trying to throw people off. He is a righty, and they’re notoriously devious.
The spoof rate here is high and getting higher as time goes on. Always a good idea to keep one’s eyes and ears open!
Pb
Wait a minute. Who is this ‘Fruitbat’ character–a gay moonbat, perchance? I’m betting it’s Richard 23, as written by scs, in the basement, on the powerbook (ca. 1998–good year!).
srv
Let’s see. 3.2M registered voters in WA. 8.8K deceased voters cleaned…
Hey, Darrell Einstein, in your own state, what is the mean alacrity of decedent voter registrations being removed?
Your wingnut link shows an estimated 170 (that’s like 0.00005% of registered voters) of “fatal pending” (unregistered, he provides no dead voting registered numbers – ha).
Really, we’re just getting too good for the current level of spoofdom. You really need to step it up some.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
There used to be due process in the system. That is to say, you were considered real until proven a spoof by a jury of your blogger-peers. Nowadays, however, the spoof rate has forced us into a state of blog-martial law. One is now considered a spoof until proven real by a tribunal of blog-owners. Warrantless IP searches are also condoned, and hearsay evidence is now admissible in spoofer courts.
We are living in a police state. But if we’re ever going to apprehend a spoofer like DougJ, we have to accept some circumscriptions on our liberties. The bottom line is, we are winning the War on Spoof. We have the spoofers on the run, now most of them have gone off to spoof threads discussing the Iraq War. The flypaper strategy is working, but we still have a few domestic spoofs to worry about. An additional concern is the threat of spoofers harbored in blogs discussing the invasion of Iran. They’ll also have to be dealt with, as blogs discussing Iran are a safe haven where spoofers operate with impunity for the time being.
Don’t forget the ramifications of a spoof on a major American blog. Everyone needs to watch what they do, what they say.
jake
Oddly enough, this is what Darrell’s biological father said the morning after lil’ Darrell was conceived.
Ryan S.
I love how Darrell get worked up over the most silly things. Of course there’s voter fraud, just like there’s theft. Some people will game the system just because its there. The truth of it is no matter how hard you crack down on fraud there will always be some, whether intentional or through confusion, mechanical difficulties and human error. The reality is when an election is that close it becomes decided by the statistical foam. It becomes what is essential a coin toss, and what was exactly the suspected rate of voter fraud in King County compared to other counties of similar size I have not seen those numbers and so any speculation of voter fraud is simply that speculation.
Show us the numbers. Notice in the link you provided the “expected” numbers none of which were higher, and most were so dead on that I’m sceptical. You need to show somthing that is beyond the expected rates.
RSA
Here’s a little bit of the backstory. Basically Republicans were arguing that in order to get your voting privileges back (now there’s fucked up idea in itself; usually we talk about voting rights) you need to finish your sentence or pay a fine, and re-register. And Republicans found hundreds of votes in Gregoire-leaning counties that apparently didn’t pass that test. For what it’s worth, Democrats appear to have found a comparable number of votes in their search of other counties.
The real issue on the “900 felons” is this, though: Republicans found those illegal 900 votes mostly in King County and other counties that went for Gregoire. But because ballots are secret, they couldn’t present direct evidence that those illegal votes were for Gregoire. They were arguing for a statistical reduction: if you have x illegal votes in a county, throw them out, with a proportional reduction taken from each candidate based on the overall voting pattern in that county. So if there were 1,000 illegal votes in a county that went 55% Gregoire, 45% Rossi, Gregoire would lose 550 and Rossi 450.
The judge said this was not justifiable for two reasons. First, you’d need to show that illegal felon voters vote the same as everyone else in the county they live in, on average. Second, the Republicans didn’t review every county, but mainly the ones that went for Gregoire. I think the Republicans could have proceeded if they’d been able to call all those voters to court and ask how they voted, but that’s pretty impractical. The Democrats did find four felons in other counties who claimed to have voted for Rossi, which is what changed the vote totals in the end.
A final note: I find it ironic that Republicans would argue for the use of sampling techniques in this case because of their opposition to the same techniques when it comes to the census. Voting and census laws and regulations don’t mention sampling, to my knowledge, but it’s certainly easier to justify in the latter case compared to the former.
jenniebee
There was an investigation. It came up empty. The judge, charmingly enough, refused to be an “activist” judge and make shit up, at which point the results were certified and it was appropriate to let the matter go; harrassment justice; never has, never will.
I think it’s funny that Darrell throws Occam’s Razor out the window the way he does. After all, there’s no end to the amount of corruption, cronyism and cowardice that comes out of this administration, but Darrell’s explanation for it is that none of it is true, it’s simply that hundreds, nay thousands of otherwise unrelated people (hey, at least with the “vast right-wing conspiracy” there was a single common denominator by the name of Richard Mellon Scaife) are all driven by strange and dubious motives to throw egg on GWB’s face. In his mind, he has made Arbusto a true genius by inventing a Confederacy of Dunces against him. Brilliant!
Tulkinghorn
Voter fraud is a major talking point for the right wing spin system. Not only is it a good way to rile up the base, but is a necessary excuse for all manner of GOP dirty tricks. ‘Hey, we would not have to lie, cheat, and steal for our power and profit if only those nasty Democrats would allow for fair elections!’
The other important role that the alleged voter fraud does is to allow for a nice, neat tautology that keeps the base in a proper righteous fighting mood. The base thinks that they are the authentic Americans, and that they represent a silent majority. Now we know it is closer to 30%, but how can you claim to be the majority when you are clearly not so? Well, by claiming those voting differently are inauthentic Americans – radical minorities, commies, traitors, illegals, etc. The claim of massive voter fraud is critical in maintaining the pretense that in spite of being a diminishing minority, they are actually the rightful rulers over a putative democracy.
Tulkinghorn
As a separate factual issue, anyone with a Green card who votes in any election will make themselves ineligible for citizenship. Even just registering to vote may violate the law that makes this the case.
Since the registration rolls, and in some states, whether or not someone has voted, is public record, then it is a simple matter to run the voting database against the INS Resident Alien database in order to locate all these alleged fraudulent voters. Those folks then would not be able to renew their green cards, and be at risk of deportation. Why is this never done? Could it be that all these US Attorneys are dumber than I am, or is it more likely that they have checked and are not finding a significant number of fraudulent voters?
Maybe Darrell would have a theory about this. I am not sure I want to hear it, though.
Tim F.
One what planet does that qualify as a response to what I wrote? Then you spend the rest of the thread pissing on people for not bowing down to your weaselly non-response. Sad.
CJ
Is there any evidence that the 900 felons actually voted as opposed to simply being registered on the rolls? There seems to be a logical jump here, but then I’ve not looked into this.
CJ
chopper
quiet, you’re ruining darrell’s meltdown.
RSA
When all the wax melts away, will we see Jimmy Mack?
Pb
Surely some did, but I question the 900 number; also, some felons can vote, but the law in Washington state was somewhat screwy on this point, making them jump through hoops to get back their vote (and not always tracking this process properly). That being said, when it comes to voting problems, I’d be hard-pressed to think of a smaller one. In 2004, in Washington state alone, 19,681 provisional ballots weren’t counted, and that’s just the tip of the spoiled ballot iceberg.
Tulkinghorn
Maybe Stormy70 or TallDave reappear in a puff of smoke.
Zifnab
Tim, I don’t suppose you can ban him instead?
ed
I don’t care why people respond to Darrell, I want to know why he chooses to spend so much time with lying scumbags for whom he clearly has no respect. He sounds more and more like Michael Savage, including the obsession with gays. Darrell, are you really Dr. Weiner??
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
They’re off fighting spoofers on other blogs, so we don’t have to fight them here.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
Darrell has learned the real lessons of 9/11. America can no longer afford to ignore spoofs, or to treat them as a nuisance as we did under Clinton. We are engaged in a war for our nation’s existence. Should the spoofers succeed, they will establish a veritable Caliphate of deception, controlling the export of facts with an iron fist. Currently, we rely on corrupt-yet-friendly agencies like CNN and wikipedia for our facts; under spoofer domination, such outlets would probably cease to exist in their currently recognizable form.
I don’t think I need to tell you the ramifications that would have for Balloon Juice, the Internet, or America herself. Suffice it to say, we must fight spoofery wherever it rears its treacherous head!
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
You outspoof the spoofers with the talking points you have, not the talking points you wish you had.
Cyrus
I wondered about that myself. Jimmy Mack appears out of nowhere about a hundred comments down a thread, responding directly (partly in the first person and partly in the third person, which is even more odd) to something asked of Darrell? Huh? What I really noticed, though, was the language. Jimmy has always seemed like a concern troll, superficially polite even though he’s as partisan a Republican as anyone. But here, we get “Bullshit, moonbat fuckhead.” Bizarre. Not to be overly concerned with civility myself — I guess I’ll interject “sockpuppeteers are sad motherfuckers” apropos of nothing, to establish my non-Broderite bona fides — but it’s easy to notice.
Otto Man
Fixed!
monkey boy
So if Gone-zo does stay, isnt he effectively worthless? Isn’t his power completely neutered? I mean, everything he does….everyone he meets with…every single major or minor policy will be scrutinized to the absolute fullest. This guy wont get a ounce of “benefit of doubt” on anything for 21 more months.
It’s been pretty well established that he’s corrupt, crooked, a liar, and a crony. He doesn’t make a single phone call nowadays without someone asking “to whom?” Why would the ever-planning, ever-coniving Admin want such scrutiny on everything?
Temple
Ok, this is serious now. (not really) I view this blog as self-correcting in very many ways. But I’m tired of it. Tired I tell ya.
The jeapordy in the headline is s’p’s’d to be JEOPARDY!
Intergrammatical transpositions are partisan hacks. ;-)
– temple
RSA
You’re not the only one, Temple; I just have more self-control. :-)
Steve
What kind of an idiot do you have to be to believe that the presence of dead people on the voter rolls means there was “voter fraud,” let alone “Democratic voter fraud”?
Seriously, here’s a tip, for anyone who is that stupid. Sometimes, before people die, they are alive, and they might even register to vote.
And if you believe that, where fraud exists, it just has to be Democrats doing it, because Republicans don’t do that stuff… you just might be partisan to the point of sheer insanity.
timeisart
Zifnab Says:
There has to be a better word for this than Irony.
anticipated
Why waste time being incredulous over anything this administration does? It’s been the status quo for some time now that if we scratch the surface of any Bush Republican, we will get lies, incompetence, ignorance, illegality, arrogance and criminal behaviour, the most horrible of which is treason.
And remember, two years from now someone will have to open investigations against the current crop of Democrats. Power’s debilitatinig perfume is whiffed by all who are privy to it.
timeisart
“Mix accountability-free government with political hackery of the first degree and the question of government functioning without screwing up, wrecking protocol and breaking the law becomes a mathematical impossibility.”–Tim F
The same can be said of deregulation of private enterprise. Has it been anything but another tool used by the conservative rich to pry more capital from the middle class? Government, with diligent oversight, usually does business better for the greatest number of Americans than private enterprise. I hope I never see police and fire privatized.
JNagarya
Perhaps I’m a political neophyte. (Perhaps not.) I don’t understand this:
Someone above said there were (still are?) 8,800 dead people on the voter rolls in WA. And that that is evidence of voter fraud. How do dead people get to the polls to vote? And why do poll workers not notice that they’re dead?
And why do they vote Democratic?