Dilemmas

The Edwards/Marcotte flap (and yes, it is a flap now) continues on, leaving me in a bit of a pinch:

The Catholic League, a conservative religious group, is demanding that Mr. Edwards dismiss the two, Amanda Marcotte of the Pandagon blog site and Melissa McEwan, who writes on her blog, Shakespeare’s Sister, for expressing anti-Catholic opinions.

Mr. Edwards, a former North Carolina senator, is among the leading Democratic presidential candidates.

Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League, said in a statement on Tuesday, “John Edwards is a decent man who has had his campaign tarnished by two anti-Catholic vulgar trash-talking bigots.”

Mr. Edwards’s spokeswoman, Jennifer Palmieri, said Tuesday night that the campaign was weighing the fate of the two bloggers.

The two women brought to the Edwards campaign long cyber trails in the incendiary language of the blogosphere. Other campaigns are likely to face similar controversies as they try to court voters using the latest techniques of online communication.

Ms. Marcotte wrote in December that the Roman Catholic Church’s opposition to the use of contraception forced women “to bear more tithing Catholics.” In another posting last year, she used vulgar language to describe the church doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.

She has also written sarcastically about the news media coverage of the three Duke lacrosse players accused of sexual assault, saying: “Can’t a few white boys sexually assault a black woman anymore without people getting all wound up about it? So unfair.”

I mean, on one side, you have the disgusting Bill Donahue and the Catholic League running around attempting to impose their values on everyone and taking great umbrage at anything that doesn’t portray their beliefs as if they should be everyone’s beliefs. If you have never seen Donohoe before, he is a balding, pompous, in-your-face loudmouth who I can only describe as thoroughly contemptible. The miserable and insufferable oaf was at the center of the Terri Schiavo affair, and has also been a featured speaker at Just Us Sunday. Some sample quotes from the Schiavo nonsense:

WILLIAM DONAHUE, PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC LEAGUE: OK.

Well, since Al has been so good about correcting you on some things, let me correct Al. Four times, he said the woman is brain-dead. That is flatly wrong.

She is brain-damaged, sir. And if she were brain-dead, then she would be, in fact, dead, because that’s the definition of being dead in this country, is to be brain-dead.

FRANKEN: Well, she is brain-dead.

DONAHUE: “The New York Times” made the same mistake in October of 2003, had to run a correction on it.

If you take a look at today’s “San Francisco Chronicle,” you will see a medical doctor says that she’s not even comatose, because she’s—to be a persistent vegetative state is not the same thing as a coma.

FRANKEN: Comatose has nothing to do with anything.

DONAHUE: So, let’s get it straight here.

The woman is disabled. She’s not dead. And the question before us today is this.

And on her death, there was this:

“The let-her-starve crowd has finally seen its death wish for Terri Schiavo become a reality. But they didn’t walk away unscathed. For example, after the presidential election, many of those not associated with the pro-life community said they wanted to reach out to them. Well, they had their chance to speak up, but decided instead to run. Their silence will not be forgotten.

“The Schiavo case brought to the surface many questions that should long ago have been addressed. In this regard, the teachings of the Catholic Church on end-of-life issues is a model of clarity compared to that of all the other religions. It’s time that all world religions more forthrightly tackled these issues before it’s too late. And by that I mean before the secular bioethicists rule the day, for many of them don’t know the difference between a hamster and a human.”

Yeah. He is one of them. Another crusader who thinks his religion should be your religion and his religion should be your politics.

On the other side, you have Amanda.

And I really do not know who to root for in this mess. My gut instinct is to treat this as a Browns/Cowboys Superbowl, in which I would root for injuries.

Your thoughts?

*** Update ***

A fair point in the comments:

If you strip this down to its bare bones, all this was ever about, no matter how much allegedly high-minded bullshit the echo chamber wants to layer on it, was to get Amanda fired from a job she hadn’t even started yet. It was meant to fuck up her life. It was to get her fired.

It’s a shame that it’s probably going to work, because you’re going to see witch hunts like this more frequently down the road and they won’t just be directed at bloggers who take jobs with political campaigns. Every poliblogger’s employment is going to be fair game. You can bet on it.

As much as I loathe Amanda, this bothers me. If this were an issue of someone trying to get her fired from a job totally unrelated to blogging, I would, without question, be supporting Amanda (and the way that is phrased makes it sound like I support Amanda being fired from this gig- I don’t. I am just gleeful at the whole situation, and of the attitude this couldn’t happen to a nicer person). As it is though, she is hired as a blogger because of her blogging, so holding her to account for her blogging seems fair.

The author of the comment is right, though- anything you say can and will be used against you in the future.

*** Update ***

And this is just silly:

Does John Edwards Condone Hate Speech?

A bit of a tempest is brewing over the strident and profanity-laced writings of John Edwards’ official campaign “blogmaster,” Amanda Marcotte. She joined the Edwards campaign last week, and she’s already gotten a lot of attention.

Amanda Marcotte is mean, nasty, unpleasant, blind to any idea that does not fit her rigid ideology, and she has mistakenly confused fighting back against the right with being an obnoxious and offensive troll. For some reason, she thinks that anyone who disagrees with her opinions is a misogynist. She is a lot ofthings I deem unpleasant, but I don’t think she engages in what we would call hate speech. That is an unfair smear of Amanda. A quick primer:

Hate Speech: “‘Unless we get medically lucky, in three or four years, one of the options discussed will be the extermination of homosexuals.” – Dr. Paul Cameron, 1985 Conservative Political Action Conference

Amanda Being Stupid and Crass: “Q: What if Mary had taken Plan B after the Lord filled her with his hot, white, sticky Holy Spirit? A: You’d have to justify your misogyny with another ancient mythology.”

Hate Speech: “Not only is homosexuality a sin, but anyone who supports fags is just as guilty as they are. You are both worthy of death (Romans 1:32),” Fred Phelps quoted by State Press (Arizona State University), March 11, 1998.

Amanda Deciding that Her Role as Supreme Feminist Overrides any sense of Decency and Respect for the American Legal System: “I had to listen to how the poor, dear lacrosse players at Duke are being persecuted just because they held someone down and f***** her against her will–not rape, of course, because the charges have been thrown out. Can’t a few white boys sexually assault a black woman anymore without people getting all wound up about it? So unfair.”

There is a difference there. Just because someone is an asshole does not mean they are engaging in Hate Speech.

Share On Facebook
Share On Twitter
Share On Google Plus
Share On Pinterest
Share On Reddit

117 replies
  1. 1
    dslak says:

    My gut instinct is to treat this as a Browns/Cowboys Superbowl, in which I would root for injuries.

    Except the players in such a case wouldn’t be as responsible for their circumstances or deserving in the same way that these two are.

  2. 2
    Catsy says:

    Given the choice between noxious theocon gasbags, and a blogger who makes liberals look bad by saying stupid shit, it’s pretty close to a toss-up–but I think the theocon needs to lose. If Marcotte loses her job over this, the theocons will be insufferably smug and claim victory, and that’s bad not only for Edwards but for the sanity of the Republican party as well.

    As painful as it is, you should be rooting for Amanda.

  3. 3
    John Cole says:

    Catsy- I fear you may be right.

  4. 4
    les says:

    I think it’s great. If Edwards caves, I can quit thinking about him as a candidate and the RC wingnuts will have a safe corner to congregate in without, hopefully, annoying the rest of us too much. If he doesn’t, well, the “race” stays more complicated, but still the Donahue types will have a focus to rage over.

  5. 5
    demimondian says:

    There isn’t a conflict, John. You loathe Amanda Marcotte for how she has behaved towards you, personally. That’s a reasonable way to feel. You loathe Bill Donahue for philosophical reasons, based on what he has done to the society at large.

    In this case, he’s trying to repeat his past crimes; she’s not trying to repeat her past offenses. You can oppose his attempt to make her “go away”, thinking it’s particularly dangerous to form common cause with him at this time, and still want her to go away.

  6. 6
    Andrew says:

    I say lock Donahue and Amanda in a small room together. After 20 minutes, Donahue would be dismembered and Amanda would be so pissed that she would say something disqualifying when she emerged.

  7. 7
    RSA says:

    The woman is disabled. She’s not dead. And the question before us today is this.

    Jesus, Donahue is doing the dead parrot routine.

  8. 8
    John Cole says:

    There isn’t a conflict, John. You loathe Amanda Marcotte for how she has behaved towards you, personally.

    Oh, there is much more about Amanda Marcotte to loathe than just her personal behavior towards me. She is a throroughly contemptible person through and through, and her beliefs are just as apalling at times as Donohue’s. Cripes, that Duke Lacrosse quote of hers and her subsequent refusal to pardon them as the evidence mounts is enough for most sane people to recognize the odious nature of her beliefs.

  9. 9
    chopper says:

    edwards should replace her. with someone who blogs at least 1/3 of the time on how donahue is an ass.

    solved.

  10. 10
    Faux News says:

    Jesus, Donahue is doing the dead parrot routine

    I was also waiting for Donohue to say Terri was merely “pining for the fjords”!

  11. 11
    Zifnab says:

    And I really do not know who to root for in this mess. My gut instinct is to treat this as a Browns/Cowboys Superbowl, in which I would root for injuries.

    Hey. I root for the Cowboys. Screw you!

    Furthermore, you’ve said a few incendiary things on this blog as has Donohue. If a blogger or a right-wing foul-mouthed pundit decides to shoot his or her mouth off and say something stupid, that’s probably because its in the job description.

    John Edwards has appeal with the conservative base. He’s the last white hope for the Dixiecrats, because every other serious candidate hails from the north. This isn’t a question of whether or not Edwards can afford to keep Marcotte – if he drops her, the right-wing-o’-sphere will just go blathering on about something else – but whether Marcotte is the turf Edwards thinks he can beat back or simply ignore slimeballs like Donahue on.

    It’s Deal or No Deal and Marcotte is the big red button. Does Edwards think defusing this firecracker will clear the way for a bigger or smaller “scandal” down the line? And does he think backing down to “Being Catholic Makes My Penis Bigger” Donahue will win him any praise in his own party? (The answer is “no” btw). That’s the only math behind this. As it stands, Marcotte is such a non-issue, I say let the right-wingers wail. If this is the best they can come up with, the Dems have ’08 all locked up.

  12. 12

    Like I said on a previous thread, I think this whole blogger-hiring thing might be short-lived. Blogging is best when it’s shoot-from-the-hip.

    Gleen Greenwald notes that McCain has hired a blogger who’s engaged in light-to-moderate assholery.

  13. 13
    Pb says:

    Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League” has no room to talk about:

    “vulgar trash-talking bigots.”

    …that is, unless he’s working on his autobiography.

    And incidentally, it’s probably worth mentioning that the “Catholic League” we’re talking about “is a large right-wing Roman Catholic civil rights organization in the United States […] Founded in 1973 by Jesuit Father Virgil C. Blum SJ, it is a lay organization funded by individual donations”, and “other positions put them squarely at odds with the Vatican, such as their pro-capital punishment stance.”

    …so he also has no room to talk about “anti-Catholic” positions–because apparently, he and his organization hold a few of their own.

    You heard it here first, folks: Bill Donohue, anti-Catholic vulgar trash-talking bigot and right-wing operative.

  14. 14
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    attempting to impose their values on everyone and taking great umbrage at anything that doesn’t portray their beliefs as if they should be everyone’s beliefs.

    Like a Bizarro World Snicker’s-Gate.

    And talking of “Pinin’ For The Fjords,” there’s no way Marcotte gets out of this shoddy “cover-your-tracks-via-the-delete-button” episode with a job. The New York Times picked up the story today, and the campaign says they are contemplating her fate, so she’ll be canned quietly over the weekend, whining all the way.

  15. 15
    Dug Jay says:

    I think one can despise Amanda without accepting equally noxious statements from Donohue. Here’s a few of Amanda’s comments, as reported by ABC News, who characterize some as arguably forms of hate speech:

    ON THE CATHOLIC TEACHINGS ON BIRTH CONTROL:

    Last year, Marcotte blasted the Catholic Church’s position on birth control: “Q: What if Mary [Cheny] had taken Plan B after the Lord filled her with his hot, white, sticky Holy Spirit? A: You’d have to justify your misogyny with another ancient mythology.” (Side note: Would there be a different reaction if John Edwards “blogmaster” had insulted Islam to this degree? Is it “okay” to trash Catholicism–but not Islam?)

    ON THE DUKE RAPE CASE:

    “I had to listen to how the poor, dear lacrosse players at Duke are being persecuted just because they held someone down and f***** her against her will–not rape, of course, because the charges have been thrown out. Can’t a few white boys sexually assault a black woman anymore without people getting all wound up about it? So unfair.”

  16. 16
    Zifnab says:

    Like a Bizarro World Snicker’s-Gate.

    Longer EEEL: “I hate teh ghez so I don’t see anything wrong with this.”

    there’s no way Marcotte gets out of this shoddy “cover-your-tracks-via-the-delete-button” episode with a job.

    Excellent investigative reporting there. I can see why you’re a lawfirm. After indepth analysis, it’s been revealed that dozens of posts “went missing” over an extended period of time. Has Marcotte been planning to become Edward’s blog for years? Could it really be legitimate network and server issues? Or is this really an incidious attack by the same vandals who downed Joe Lieberman’s blog by making him sign up with a shitty broadband company?

    Waxman is grilling contractors, the Libby trial is in full swing, and we may or may not be going to war with Iran whether America likes it or not. Please take your non-scandals elsewhere.

  17. 17
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    vulgar trash-talking bigot

    Yes, those are very negative characteristics. Isn’t that right, vulgar, trash-talking bigot Bill Donohue?

    “Hollywood is controlled by secular Jews who hate Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular … Hollywood likes anal sex.” (JON STEWART: “Hollywood doesn’t like anal sex…it loooooves anal sex!”)

    “I’m saying if a Catholic votes for Kerry because they support him on abortion rights that is to cooperate in evil.”

    “The fact of the matter is the media elite have an aversion to religion. Some of them even have a phobia and some of them are obviously anti-religion. … They want Tom, Dick, and Harry to get married. They want “under God” out of the pledge of allegiance. They don’t want anybody to see The Passion of the Christ. It’s all tied together. ”

    “Name for me a book publishing company in this country, particularly in New York, which would allow you to publish a book which would tell the truth about the gay death style. There are certain things that the left won’t tolerate. They are censorial at heart.” (Projection alert in that last sentence.)

  18. 18
    Mary says:

    There’s a fair bit of confusion about deleted or missing posts at Pandagon. Some ass accused Marcotte of deleting various posts over the years, and it turns out that gaps were the result of server hiccups. Thus, “many deliberately deleted posts” = myth.

    On the other hand, the “deleted” Duke post was actually an edited post: the post is still there, but the original text has been replaced with a new statement. Thus, “Duke post deleted” = original text of Duke post deleted.

    I think deleting the original text/editing the post was a mistake. Own your words or go home. But Donahue is truly disgusting and more powerful than Marcotte (who just pisses me off and makes me roll my eyes from time to time), so I’m rooting for her.

  19. 19
    demimondian says:

    […]that Duke Lacrosse quote of hers and her subsequent refusal to pardon them as the evidence mounts is enough for most sane people to recognize the odious nature of her beliefs.

    Fair enough, seeing as how I felt she was wrong about those things. I confess that both FDDD and I believed the dancer initially; we’ve both certainly seen that kind of abuse enough in the past to believe the victim implicitly. That said, you’re right that she should have formally apologized, since that’s what grown-ups do.

    I still feel that this is a comparison of apples and oranges. Marcotte is a fruitcake who contributes no more to any discussion than demi-as-a-clown. Still, it’s far more dangerous to the rest of us if Donahue wins this battle. I’d prefer to focus on the short-term battle, and then get her to either grow up or be driven out.

  20. 20
    Jimmmm says:

    Back Marcuntte today with the expectation that she’ll walk through dogshit sometime in the very near future, thereby necessitating that TeamEdwards fire her.

    Win/Win.

  21. 21
    dreggas says:

    boy that is a tough one John. Personally if I had a choice between the Religious Zealot douche bag and the Femi-nazi douche bag I would have to bite the bullet and side with the femi-nazi (and on a side note those comments about being filled with the lords hot sticky white whatever was funny as hell to me) sinc I can’t stand the religious nut-jobs.

    While Marcotte may be irritating and may not like to accept evidence that is contrary to her own beliefs, the religious nut-jobs are the same way but to the tenth power and whereas Marcotte might be a really loud voice that few pay attention to the religious nut-jobs are a growing group (mainly because of that whole go forth and multiply nonsense) and are much more dangerous.

  22. 22
    ThymeZone says:

    Ms. Marcotte wrote in December that the Roman Catholic Church’s opposition to the use of contraception forced women “to bear more tithing Catholics.”

    Chuckle. What did they think that opposition was for? The protection of precious sperm and eggs? Life begins at ejaculation, sayeth the Lord? What the fuck?

    Of course the church wants more babies and more Catholics. The church has always been about organization and control, just look at their org chart. And you can’t have control if you don’t manufacture new controllees.

    Give me a fucking break. I am so sick of people who live in fantasy worlds of bullshit and superstition. Fuck them very much. Muslim, Catholic, or whatever, I don’t care.

  23. 23
    tBone says:

    Mr. Edwards’s spokeswoman, Jennifer Palmieri, said Tuesday night that the campaign was weighing the fate of the two bloggers.

    Translation: don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, ladies.

    The Edwards campaign will bail and Donohue will waggle his necksack in self-righteous victory. Most Americans ignore the entire affair because they’re already getting their weekly fix of revolting freaks from American Idol. The world continues to spin.

  24. 24
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    Longer EEEL: “I hate teh ghez so I don’t see anything wrong with this.”

    Of course, you would dumb it down until it registers on your three functioning brain cells, Zif. I never expected any more from you.

    After indepth analysis, it’s been revealed that dozens of posts “went missing” over an extended period of time.

    Yeah. Right. Nice spin. “Went missing.” A very short “extended period of time” — one horribly idiotic Duke lacrosse post (now magically deleted!) was from two whole weeks ago. Good luck with all that.

    Waxman is grilling contractors, the Libby trial is in full swing, and we may or may not be going to war with Iran whether America likes it or not. Please take your non-scandals elsewhere.

    Thanks for deciding what topics John can post about on his own blog. John, please take down all posts that do not relate to subjects that Zif finds palatable for us. Don’t worry, this will all be over when Amanda gets the gate.

  25. 25
    Overlawyered says:

    Marcotte’s regrets

    I wouldn’t even go so far as to say there’s things I “regret”. There are comments I’ve made that tone-deaf wingnuts don’t understand, sure. — John Edwards official campaign blogger Amanda Marcotte, or someone posing…

  26. 26
    DAN says:

    she should be fired due to the overwhelming evidence of her idiocy.

  27. 27
    Pb says:

    she should be fired due to the overwhelming evidence of her idiocy.

    Hah! If the world actually worked like that, then we never would have had President George W. Bush, for one.

  28. 28
    Kevin K. says:

    If you strip this down to its bare bones, all this was ever about, no matter how much allegedly high-minded bullshit the echo chamber wants to layer on it, was to get Amanda fired from a job she hadn’t even started yet. It was meant to fuck up her life. It was to get her fired.

    It’s a shame that it’s probably going to work, because you’re going to see witch hunts like this more frequently down the road and they won’t just be directed at bloggers who take jobs with political campaigns. Every poliblogger’s employment is going to be fair game. You can bet on it.

    The future: “I wonder if the company that [insert blogger name here] works for would like to know what s/he really thinks about corporate Amerikkka.”

    This shit’s going to spiral out of control.

  29. 29

    Who gives a shit what Republicans think?

  30. 30
    Punchy says:

    Who the fuck is Amanda Marcotte??

    And TZ…

    Life begins at ejaculation, sayeth the Lord?

    If this were true…I’d need a school bus to drive my kids around town…(yeah, I said it).

  31. 31
    Myrtle Parker says:

    The Edwards campaign should fire her ass with all do haste. Amanda is not someone they need to associate themselves with. Let her rant her vitriolic rhetoric elsewhere. No need to taint the campaign with that kind of crap.

    This really doesn’t speak well of the Edwards campaign. This isn’t the battle they need to be fighting. I want a President to be _effective_ for the progressive movement. Not one that is going to let misplaced loyalty get in the way of actual progress.

  32. 32
    Tulkinghorn says:

    Last year, Marcotte blasted the Catholic Church’s position on birth control: “Q: What if Mary… had taken Plan B after the Lord filled her with his hot, white, sticky Holy Spirit?

    How is this anti-Catholic? Does Donohue think he owns Christianity? In calling this anti-Catholic he insults all the protestants and orthodox, as well as Muslims (who accept Jesus as a prophet, too), so to hell with him.

    We desperately need people who will tell off creeps like Donahue, and for any supporter of reproductive rights, whether you like Amanda or not, she is fighting the good fight.

  33. 33

    The Edwards campaign should fire her ass with all do haste.

    Mr. Edwards should tell Mr. Donohue to go fuck himself.

  34. 34
    Myrtle Parker says:

    If you strip this down to its bare bones, all this was ever about, no matter how much allegedly high-minded bullshit the echo chamber wants to layer on it, was to get Amanda fired from a job she hadn’t even started yet. It was meant to fuck up her life. It was to get her fired.

    It’s a shame that it’s probably going to work, because you’re going to see witch hunts like this more frequently down the road and they won’t just be directed at bloggers who take jobs with political campaigns. Every poliblogger’s employment is going to be fair game. You can bet on it.

    So?

    Seriously. Look at it a certain way, all Democratic politics is about getting _someone_ fired. At least for incumbents. Amanda wrote her ridiculous rhetoric and is responsible for it. That kind of crap is not what any campaign should be willingly associating itself with. I’m sure Amanda can find work outside of a frontpage poster for a _presidential_ campaign.

    Either way, this is going to be a huge distraction for Edwards and does not show good hiring decisions. Not a smart move. Look at what he’s done? He fires her now and he’s dashed all the progress he’s made with the netroots. Atrios’ and others are going to the mat for Amanda for $DIETY knows what reason. If he doesn’t fire her, his campaign gets to be tarnished with _legitimate_ charges of hiring an anti-Catholic.

    Say what you will of Amanda, but I hardly think it is unfair to call her anti-Catholic. She just is. By her own words.

  35. 35
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    Mr. Edwards should tell Mr. Donohue to go fuck himself.

    That’d be fun to watch. Ahhhh, if only Edwards were completely batshit insane!

  36. 36
    Pb says:

    Tulkinghorn,

    Actually, I think the original posts on Pandagon go a long way to providing some context: Pandagon goes undercover the lazy way on a Catholic anti-contraception seminar, and Part II — no wonder Donohue is pissed at her, she called them out!

  37. 37
    Myrtle Parker says:

    Is Donahue right that Amanda is anti-Catholic? Forget what you think of Donahue, his charge, IN THIS INSTANCE is legitimate and fair. I suspect that Amanda would admit as such were she not in her current position. But let’s look at her actual words, shall we:

    Q: What if Mary had taken Plan B after the Lord filled her with his hot, white, sticky Holy Spirit? A: You’d have to justify your misogyny with another ancient mythology.

    So, she goes for the graphic image of the lord’s ejaculate. Not anti-Catholic per se, but it certainly doesn’t show sympathy towards catholic beliefs.

    To say the least.

    Now look at what she says just after this, “You’d have to justify your misogyny with another ancient mythology.” Ahh, so the Catholic church hates women and is just another ‘ancient mythology’. Tell me, how on earth can any sentient person say that is anything other than anti-Catholic. It certainly isn’t pro-Catholic. Ha ha. Ha.

  38. 38
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    Either way, this is going to be a huge distraction for Edwards and does not show good hiring decisions. Not a smart move.

    I don’t know. He’s a distant third right now, so he’s got to do something to pull column inches from Hillary and Obama. It’s all in how he spins the inevitable firing. Can he pull off a clever nod-and-wink to the nutroots with a “They made me fire her — I was completely comfortable with her misogynistic idiocy, but a guy’s gotta get elected before he can do Amanda’s Work for her”? I mean, it’s pretty transparent (and ultimately doomed), but he’s got to try to fool some voters fast or he’s dead in the water.

  39. 39
    pharniel says:

    it’s not exactly anti-catholic, it’s anti-immaculate conception, one of the tenants of faith of the Nicene convention.
    She was mocking any of the many NIcene sects of chrstianity, including luthrans and episcopalians.

    and it’s a really good line i have to say.

  40. 40

    That’d be fun to watch. Ahhhh, if only Edwards were completely batshit insane!

    He doesn’t have a prayer of winning so why not?

    Barring a meteor hitting the Democratic convention with Edwads as the sole survivor it’s Hllary, Obama, or Gore. Everyone else is running for VP.

    As for the Republicans, I don’t know why they even bother except that they have to run someone just for appearance sake.

  41. 41

    Mary wrote: Some ass accused Marcotte of deleting various posts over the years, and it turns out that gaps were the result of server hiccups. Thus, “many deliberately deleted posts” = myth.

    This ass (Moi) is complaining because she deleted my comments regarding the Duke case and left only those that adhered to incredibly biased belief that people are guilty because of their sex, class and gender. No server hiccup there. I don’t particularly care that she deletes her own offensive posts now that someone outside her clubhouse is paying attention. Her original posts about the Duke case, especially her incredibly ignorant “waiting at the airport” one, should be embarrassing to her.

    I still don’t buy Domino’s pizzas. The question is whether anyone will want to buy Edwards with Marcotte involved in the campaign.

    Mary, read the facts of the case. Start with the amended complaint filed by the North Carolina State Bar that describes close to three hundred citations of District Attorney Nifong’s violation of ethics in this case (all to prepetrate a demonstrably false prosecution). Then come back and say that Marcotte is right on in her commentary on the subject.

  42. 42
    Myrtle Parker says:

    “They made me fire her—I was completely comfortable with her misogynistic idiocy, but a guy’s gotta get elected before he can do Amanda’s Work for her”?

    NO way. If he fires her now he’ll be dead to the leaders of the netroots. They are circling the wagons on this one. Atrios is telegraphing this very overtly by saying he might as well give up the campaign if he gives in to Donahue. Greenwald is desperately trying to change the subject to McCain’s bloggers.

    No, Edwards stepped in it with this one. You know what might be the best thing he could do? If Amanda will go along for it, she should repudiate her truly stupid remarks and mea culpa for such stuff as the duke rape case. Then Amanda should go right back to blogging on the same subjects as before. I assume that is why he hired her.

    Edwards and Amanda can have the courage of their convictions or not.

  43. 43
    cd6 says:

    Bloggers need to realize that the majority of Americans don’t give a crap about bloggers. The entire blogosphere was an incredibly overinflated opinion of itself.

    The wingnuts need to accept that Joe Voter doesn’t give a crap who Edwards has as his “campaign blogger” because they aren’t going to read his campaign blog. Additionally, Joe Voter doesn’t know about her incendiary comments because they don’t read her blog and they don’t read any of the blogs pointing out her incendiary comments and shrieking ‘fire her!’

    Candidates care about blogs only because they raise money. Thats it. The only people that a campaign blog would “get the message out to” is other bloggers, who already know the message.

  44. 44
    Krista says:

    It’s Deal or No Deal and Marcotte is the big red button. Does Edwards think defusing this firecracker will clear the way for a bigger or smaller “scandal” down the line? And does he think backing down to “Being Catholic Makes My Penis Bigger” Donahue will win him any praise in his own party? (The answer is “no” btw). That’s the only math behind this. As it stands, Marcotte is such a non-issue, I say let the right-wingers wail. If this is the best they can come up with, the Dems have ‘08 all locked up.

    I agree. I think it was a mistake for him to hire her in the first place. And if he had fired her prior to Donohue “demanding” that she be fired, then he would have rather taken the wind out of their sails. But, when you have pricks like Donohue “demanding” that you do a certain thing, even if it’s something you wanted to do anyway, it’s really not a good idea to cave in to his demands. For starters, Edwards would lose a lot of respect within his own party for caving to that asshole. And as well, with jerks like Donohue, instead of being gracious, they’d just crow their victory far and wide and make Edwards look like a patsy. So, if Edwards decides to get rid of Marcotte, he’s now going to do it really quietly, and will have to wait until Donohue’s guns are pointed elsewhere.

    It would be awfully lovely, though, if Edwards could just tell Donohue to KMBY…

  45. 45
    Myrtle Parker says:

    it’s not exactly anti-catholic, it’s anti-immaculate conception”

    Hah. Nice parse. She was mocking one of the central tenets of the Catholic faith. Rightly or wrongly people can argue. But it is not going out on a limb to say that her remarks were anti-Catholic.

    It is really chicken-shit cowardly to mock someone else religion and then quibble when said members of religion call you out.

  46. 46
    Mr. Grouchypants says:

    Actually, it’s not anti-immaculate conception. The immaculate conception was the conception of Mary, not Jesus.

  47. 47
    pharniel says:

    it’s not exactly anti-catholic, it’s anti-immaculate conception”

    Hah. Nice parse. She was mocking one of the central tenets of the Catholic faith. Rightly or wrongly people can argue. But it is not going out on a limb to say that her remarks were anti-Catholic.

    It is really chicken-shit cowardly to mock someone else religion and then quibble when said members of religion call you out.

    I was actually pointing out that she was mocking quite a bit more than catholics and instead a whole swath of christian sects.

    and yes, they were offencive, but funny.
    she needs to do more mohammad work, maybe throw in a wootan joke or two. equal oppertunity hate.

  48. 48
    carpeicthus says:

    I’m not a big fan of Amanda, but the right has gotten really stupid over this, unsurprisingly. So … go Amanda, I guess.

  49. 49

    The wingnuts need to accept that Joe Voter doesn’t give a crap who Edwards has as his “campaign blogger” because they aren’t going to read his campaign blog.

    Word.

    The only thing that matters for 2008 is that 5,000 troops dead, the military decimated, trillions in debt, and the Republicans responsible for all of it.

    I know 13 years is a long time to live in political fear, but the modern Republican party and conservatism is done. These bastards did it to themselves.

    Who gives a shit what Republicans say or who they run.

  50. 50
    Dave Ruddell says:

    it’s not exactly anti-catholic, it’s anti-immaculate conception, one of the tenants of faith of the Nicene convention.
    She was mocking any of the many NIcene sects of chrstianity, including luthrans and episcopalians.

    The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary, not Jesus.

  51. 51
    Myrtle Parker says:

    “I was actually pointing out that she was mocking quite a bit more than catholics and instead a whole swath of christian sects.”

    True. True. But the ire of her remarks was clearly directed towards the Catholic church in this instance.

  52. 52
    Pooh says:

    What, exactly, did Shakes (McEwan) do wrong?

  53. 53
    Myrtle Parker says:

    Right. She was mocking the virgin birth.

  54. 54
    Catsy says:

    The whole “anti-Catholic”, et al formulation is problematic, because it implies hostility towards the person rather than disdain for their beliefs. Now, to some people that’s going to be a distinction without difference–but a distinction it is, and an important one.

    I’ve known many people in my life who were very religious for whom I have nothing but respect. I can respect the decency with which they live their lives and their goodness as a person and still think that their religion contains some truly batshit insane medievalism.

  55. 55
    pharniel says:

    sorry, don’t know where the immaculate conception charges came from.
    i’m mixing up articles.

    but seriously, it’s really not that big a deal.

  56. 56
    demimondian says:

    it’s anti-immaculate conception, one of the tenants of faith of the Nicene convention.

    Actually, no, the immaculate conception of Mary is a uniquely Roman doctrine. It was added as doctrine in the last century or so.
    .

  57. 57

    […] A fair point in the comments: […]

  58. 58
    Mary says:

    Mary wrote: Some ass accused Marcotte of deleting various posts over the years, and it turns out that gaps were the result of server hiccups. Thus, “many deliberately deleted posts” = myth.

    This ass (Moi) is complaining because she deleted my comments regarding the Duke case and left only those that adhered to incredibly biased belief that people are guilty because of their sex, class and gender. No server hiccup there.

    The ass I was referring to was some journalist whose name I forget and who has since apologized for not asking Marcotte. If she’s deleting comments now, as well as posts, then I don’t call that a server hiccup, either.

    Mary, read the facts of the case. Start with the amended complaint filed by the North Carolina State Bar that describes close to three hundred citations of District Attorney Nifong’s violation of ethics in this case (all to prepetrate a demonstrably false prosecution). Then come back and say that Marcotte is right on in her commentary on the subject.

    I’ve already researched the case, and I am already of the opinion that Nifong should be dumped for his actions. And I have never claimed that Marcotte’s commentary was right, just that if she wrote something that inflammatory, she should have owned it and left it up. Because as Nixon could have told her, it’s the cover-up that will fuck you over. Better yet, I would have hoped that she would have told the Edwards campaign that she had written something she was thinking she should edit, and offering them the option to just not hire her instead. Her case of whiplash affects Edwards badly now, too.

  59. 59
    Myrtle Parker says:

    The author of the comment is right, though- anything you say can and will be used against you in the future.

    [snark]Oh god. Poor Misha! How on earth will that guy ever run for President when people are unfairly using his words against him?[/snark]

  60. 60

    I can respect the decency with which they live their lives and their goodness as a person and still think that their religion contains some truly batshit insane medievalism.

    True.

    Like Scientology.

    Or snake handlers.

    Or those folks who believe the world is only 6,000 years old.

    Come on, you know you REALLY think their beliefs are stupid and that they are being conned by their leaders. But so what, no skin off your nose as long as their batshit ideas don’t get put into law.

    You know, like outlawing contraceptives.

  61. 61
    Vladi G says:

    Yeah. Right. Nice spin. “Went missing.” A very short “extended period of time”—one horribly idiotic Duke lacrosse post (now magically deleted!) was from two whole weeks ago. Good luck with all that.

    That’s not what was being referred to, dipshit. There was an accusation that she deleted posts from around the time that Jesse Taylor went to work on the Strickland campaign. The period in question covered about a month. It was determined that they were lost due to server problems (Movable Type?), which is the same reason that virtually all of the archives from the Jesse and Ezra days are gone as well.

    I don’t believe Amanda ever claimed that the Duke post “went missing”. She admitted that she deleted it. I think she shouldn’t have done that, and her reasoning was pretty weak, but she didn’t blame that on anything. She took responsibility for it.

    You might want to do some basic research before you pop off.

  62. 62
    Vladi G says:

    You can read more on it here.

  63. 63
    Myrtle Parker says:

    The whole “anti-Catholic”, et al formulation is problematic, because it implies hostility towards the person rather than disdain for their beliefs.

    I don’t know. First, I think anti-Catholic implies hostility against certain beliefs, not hostility against a singular person. Second, when you have disdain for someones beliefs it is hard to say you don’t have disdain for that person… at least in some respect.

    This sounds a lot like, ‘Love the sinner, hate the sin.’

    Which is great and all until your relatives insist on praying every night that you’ll renounce your sinful, hell deserving, satan spawned, homosexual ways.

  64. 64

    Her case of whiplash affects Edwards badly now, too.

    It would if anyone gave a damn about him running, since his only hope is Obama and Hilary get struck by lightning while they are patting Al Gore on the back.

  65. 65
    Kimmitt says:

    In a fight between lying theocratic fascists bags of shit and a person I disagree with (not to imply that I often disagree with Amanda Marcotte), it’s not a tough call.

    Really, dude, you have to let go of this vindictive side of yourself. It’s the main reason you allowed the Republicans to own you for as long as they did.

  66. 66
    Myrtle Parker says:

    ALTERNATE UNIVERSE:

    I can respect the decency with which they live their lives and their goodness as a person and still think that they are sinners doomed to hell unless they repent.

    True.

    Like Homosexuals.

    Or pro-choice mothers.

    Or those folks who believe we descended from monkeys.

    Come on, you know you REALLY think their beliefs are ungodly and that they are being conned by Satan. But so what, no skin off your nose as long as their sins aren’t made legal.

    You know, like allowing unpunished abortion.

  67. 67
    Cyrus says:

    Catsy Says:
    The whole “anti-Catholic”, et al formulation is problematic, because it implies hostility towards the person rather than disdain for their beliefs. Now, to some people that’s going to be a distinction without difference—but a distinction it is, and an important one.

    I’ve known many people in my life who were very religious for whom I have nothing but respect. I can respect the decency with which they live their lives and their goodness as a person and still think that their religion contains some truly batshit insane medievalism.

    Seconded, and I agree it’s important. The so-called “anti-Catholic” comment demonstrates militant atheism — if anything! Even that is debatable.

    But by mocking a belief comment to pretty much all Christianity, it definitely has nothing to do with bigotry against Italians or Hispanics, irrational fears that a candidate will be overly influenced by the Vatican, unfair accusations of sexual impropriety by Catholic clergy, and so on.

    Anti-Catholicism is a specific thing with a specific history. Militant atheism is a specific different thing. If William Donohue was both intelligent and honest, he would be complaining about Edwards having a spokeswoman who was either an atheist or a feminist. But making a big deal about a campaign blogger being an atheist or feminist would put him squarely in the Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell stable of nutcases (not that that’s bothered him before now, but anyways), so he’s trying to play the aggrieved minority card. It’s idiotic if not just bullshit.

  68. 68
    Myrtle Parker says:

    Cyrus, read your own link. The wikipedia article talks about many different groups as anti-Catholic for widely differing reasons. It talks about lesbian and gay groups as anti-Catholic. It talks about the Da Vinci code author as anti-Catholic. It talks about the entertainment industry as anti-Catholic.

    Call her remarks militant atheism. Ok. They were still anti-Catholic. Not all atheists get off on mocking other people’s beliefs. Some do. But the ones that do mock Catholic beliefs can be fairly described as anti-Catholic. So what.

  69. 69
    BadTux says:

    There’s a reason I post as a penguin. It’s easy enough to find out who I ‘really’ am, but I’ve never mentioned my employer anywhere on the Internets so you’d have to actually use some shoe leather to find out where I work. Using your real name on the Internets nowdays is just too dadburn dangerous.

    -Badtux the Pseudonomynous Penguin

  70. 70

    The more I hear William Donohue speak, the more anti-Catholic I become.

    How did he get hired as a spokesperson by the Catholic Church when his results are opposite of the stated goal?

  71. 71
    Krista says:

    There’s a reason I post as a penguin. It’s easy enough to find out who I ‘really’ am, but I’ve never mentioned my employer anywhere on the Internets so you’d have to actually use some shoe leather to find out where I work. Using your real name on the Internets nowdays is just too dadburn dangerous.

    Yeppers. Wish I’d thought of that, but when I first commented here, I thought it’d be a one-time thing. (Rueful grin…) I might still consider changing to a nom-de-plume anyway. The old regulars will figure out who it is soon enough, but at least it might provide a bit of a barrier against any newcomers who might have nefarious motives.

    And I know perfectly well what a certain contingent of you (ahem…Pooh…) would suggest as a pseudonym, and you can just forget it.

  72. 72
    Pooh says:

    And I know perfectly well what a certain contingent of you (ahem…Pooh…) would suggest as a pseudonym, and you can just forget it.

    What did I say?

  73. 73
    Pb says:

    The Other Steve,

    How did he get hired as a spokesperson by the Catholic Church

    A: He didn’t? I posted about that above, too.

  74. 74
    Pb says:

    Myrtle Parker,

    I think the point here is, there’s a difference between actually hating Catholics, and just disagreeing with them–and “anti-Catholicism” generally has to do with the former and not the latter, much like anti-Semitism, racism, anti-Communism, nativism, homophobia, etc., etc.

  75. 75
    Myrtle Parker says:

    Greenwald is reporting that Salon is reporting that the Edwards campaign has just in fact fired Amanda. Apparently some in the Edwards camp are denying this.

  76. 76
    Sirkowski says:

    What I think?

    I think Amanda is cool and Catholics need to stop fucking children. Bad! Bad Catholics! Stop fucking those kids!

  77. 77
    BadTux says:

    Hmm, if we Catholics who disagree with William Donohue are engaging in “anti-Catholicism”, does that make us “self-hating Catholics”? Funny, I haven’t noticed myself hating myself lately…

  78. 78
    JK says:

    Well, Myrtle, let’s put it this way. If you are in fact Catholic, I think that many of your church’s beliefs are ridiculous (as are many of the beliefs of other religions as well), and will not apologize for that opinion, which I have just as much right to hold as you have to hold your beliefs.

    On the other hand, that doesn’t mean I believe that you should have to drink from “separate but equal” water fountains, suffer violence or be unable to get a job because of your beliefs, or be able to live only in segregated Catholic neighborhoods. Get it now? The former is disagreement with a belief system, the latter would be “anti-Catholic bigotry.”

  79. 79
    MNPundit says:

    Oh c’mon, Amanda’s abrasive and I’d like to see her answer to some of criticisms of her (perhaps she has and I have not found it) but she’s no Jane Hamsher. If it was Jane Hamsher than I WOULD have had trouble picking a side. But I’d say let Marcotte perform and see if she does anything while on the job that merits the dismissal. I have few problems with political appointees and patronage appointments if they are actually good at the job and not at serving the interests of those who hired them.

    Disclaimer: I am very glad Jane Hamsher is not dying of breast cancer.

  80. 80
    Catsy says:

    What makes this additionally special is that Amanda picked up and moved out there specifically to take this job. If the Edwards campaign cans her for what amounts to being an asshole on her blog before she was even employed by him, (oh noes! a blogger said stupid stuff!), I will lose a mountain of respect for him.

  81. 81
    Punchy says:

    The immaculate conception Reception was the conception of Mary Franco Harris, not Jesus.

    Fixed for Johnny Cole. Close enough, at least.

  82. 82
    cleek says:

    Salon is reporting that the Edwards campaign has just in fact fired Amanda

    FWIW, i found that Salon piece a little less than totally convincing.

  83. 83
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    I don’t believe Amanda ever claimed that the Duke post “went missing”. She admitted that she deleted it.

    Is that true? If so, what was her stated rationale?

  84. 84

    Is that true? If so, what was her stated rationale?

    Who cares. Meanwhile five US helicopters have been shot down in Iraq less than three weeks. I suspect we have more to worry about than this nothing burger.

    Amanada who?

  85. 85
    Zifnab says:

    If the Edwards campaign cans her for what amounts to being an asshole on her blog before she was even employed by him, (oh noes! a blogger said stupid stuff!), I will lose a mountain of respect for him.

    Honestly, in hindesight, Edwards could have picked a better blogger. But fuck Donahue and fuck the Republicans. FOX News. Michael Savage. Rush Limbaugh. And they’re not even blogs. Get your own glass house in order before you start throwing rocks at someone else’s.

  86. 86
    grumpy realist says:

    1. So the Catholic League squawks and insists that Edwards fire Amanda. Is Edwards going to cave in on everything that someone pitches a hissy fit about? Gives the impression of having the backbone of a jelly fish.

    2. Didn’t someone do “due diligence” on Amanda before hiring her? Didn’t they read what she had written (after all, Pandagon has all these archives available)? Result: gives the impression of not preparing.

    Well–ok. So Edwards has shown himself to a) not do due diligence or b) be willing to cave in to anyone who makes a big enough stink. Do I really want this sort of person in charge of the US?

    Guess I know at least ONE person I’m not voting for.

  87. 87
    Tsulagi says:

    Well, if Edwards wimps out canning Marcotte out of lust toward wooing the prized militant Catholic vote, maybe you could offer her a guest blogging spot here. Blogger camaraderie, spirit of bipartisanship, new blood and all that.

    That could be fun. Skimmed a quick look through some of the comments of an old post you recently linked. Hair styling by chainsaw, huh? LOL Can’t we all just get along?

  88. 88
    Cyrus says:

    Well—ok. So Edwards has shown himself to a) not do due diligence or b) be willing to cave in to anyone who makes a big enough stink. Do I really want this sort of person in charge of the US?

    In his defense, he hasn’t, yet. As I understand it, Greenwald says that the campaign denies the Salon article he linked to.

  89. 89
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    Who cares. Meanwhile five US helicopters have been shot down in Iraq less than three weeks. I suspect we have more to worry about than this nothing burger.

    I can think about at least two subjects at the same time. I know, it’s easy for me. I’m a genius. But you can try it, too!

  90. 90
    Punchy says:

    maybe you could offer her a guest blogging spot here.

    Yeah, the same day John “Now that I look back, that Mojito kinda tasted like roofies” Cole has a noisy sticky three-way with Jane Hamsher and Cindy Sheehan.

    Dont even attempt to find eye bleach strong enough for that.

  91. 91
    Vladi G says:

    Is that true? If so, what was her stated rationale?

    Do you need your mother to dress and feed you as well? Good Christ, it’s not that hard to find. Stop being such a lazy asshole.

  92. 92
    Myrtle Parker says:

    What makes this additionally special is that Amanda picked up and moved out there specifically to take this job. If the Edwards campaign cans her for what amounts to being an asshole on her blog before she was even employed by him, (oh noes! a blogger said stupid stuff!), I will lose a mountain of respect for him.

    Agreed. He should have hired her in the first place with due diligence and known she was a bomb thrower. If that is the case he should be the first person out defending her and her past statements.

    Otherwise he shouldn’t have hired her at all and firing her now makes him look like:

    1. An asshole.
    2. Lazy.
    3. Craven to the political winds.

    I suspect that he had no idea of her bomb throwing and someone on his staff let him down big time.

    You can’t have that when hiring a public spokesperson.

  93. 93
    Pb says:

    John,

    Nice update. I’d also like to thank Glenn Greenwald for pointing out that Terry Moran’s brother is Rick Moran of Right Wing Nut House–somehow I had forgotten that fact. And of course they covered Terry Moran’s piece over on the Daily Kos: “Does ABC News Condone Hate Speech?“.

  94. 94
    Bruce from Missouri says:

    At risk of being called a Feminazi, am I the only one to notice that the first 2 left bloggers to be singled out by the wingnutosphere for firing are women? Nobody went after Jesse Taylor’s job, or the MyDD guys. Misogynist much?

    Meanwhile, right bloggers get hired specifically for their bad behavior, like the bloggers for Thune.

  95. 95
    John Cole says:

    At risk of being called a Feminazi, am I the only one to notice that the first 2 left bloggers to be singled out by the wingnutosphere for firing are women? Nobody went after Jesse Taylor’s job, or the MyDD guys. Misogynist much?

    Meanwhile, right bloggers get hired specifically for their bad behavior, like the bloggers for Thune.

    I don’t know if I agree with that- Marcotte’s choice of targets and over the top rhethoric might have more to do with it than her being female. I would also look at the fact that ultimately this is a pre-emptive strike against Edwards. Marcotte and this other woman are just pawns.

  96. 96
    Myrtle Parker says:

    I would also look at the fact that ultimately this is a pre-emptive strike against Edwards. Marcotte and this other woman are just pawns.

    Grass is green.

    The sun will rise.

    etc, etc.

  97. 97
    Jimmy Mack says:

    I would also look at the fact that ultimately this is a pre-emptive strike against Edwards. Marcotte and this other woman are just pawns.

    Paranoid much? If the liberal bloggers can’t learn to speak like adults, then it’s time for them to head back to the sandbox — to low traffic sites that no one cares about, save extremist fellow travelers. That’s how the marketplace of ideas works. Always has.

  98. 98
    Serenity Now says:

    One of Marcotte’s erased Duke comments included this gem:

    “In her part of the country, both women and black people are seen as subhuman objects to be used and abused by white men.”

    That isn’t “hate speech”?

  99. 99
    Myrtle Parker says:

    That isn’t “hate speech”?

    No. It isn’t.

    This has been another addition of simple answers to simple questions.

  100. 100
    Serenity Now says:

    Myrtle, would this count as hate speech:

    “In the Islamic world, both women and unbelievers are seen as subhuman objects to be used and abused by Muslims.”

  101. 101
    cellar door says:

    Serenity – No. The way women are treated in a variety of Islamic countries makes it a reasonable opinion for someone to hold.

  102. 102
    ThymeZone says:

    That’s how the marketplace of ideas works

    Marketplace of ideas? WTF are you smoking, dude?

    Where is this place? I’m afraid to ask since you pulled it out of your ass.

  103. 103
    Richard 23 says:

    [snark]Oh god. Poor Misha! How on earth will that guy ever run for President when people are unfairly using his words against him?[/snark]

    Hmmm. Misha seems pretty level headed and not prone to hyperbole. He would make a great blogger/spokesman for Guliani or Brownback or any of the other fine GOP candidates.

    As far as Misha running for president, if that’s what you meant, I think he needs to establish his credibility on domestic and foreign policy issues first.

  104. 104
    Tulkinghorn says:

    Hmm, if we Catholics who disagree with William Donohue are engaging in “anti-Catholicism”, does that make us “self-hating Catholics”? Funny, I haven’t noticed myself hating myself lately…

    According to the self appointed inquisitor Donahue, you are. As an Epsicopalian I would gladly acknowledge that the virgin birth is a crock of Hellenistic skata that was opportunistically grafted onto the Gospels in order to compete with other emerging cults, such as that of Apollonius of Tyana. Maybe that makes me anti-Anglican, or somesuch. We are getting our own self-appointed defenders of dogma too, unfortunately.

  105. 105
    Fledermaus says:

    If the liberal bloggers can’t learn to speak like adults, then it’s time for them to head back to the sandbox

    “Bring it on”

    “Dead or Alive” (How’s Osama doin’ these days anyway?)

    “[NY Times reporter Apple] is a major league asshole”

    So to conclude:

    “Go fuck yourself”

  106. 106
    rachel says:

    Tulkinghorn Says:

    […] As an Epsicopalian I would gladly acknowledge that the virgin birth is a crock of Hellenistic skata that was opportunistically grafted onto the Gospels in order to compete with other emerging cults, such as that of Apollonius of Tyana. Maybe that makes me anti-Anglican, or somesuch. We are getting our own self-appointed defenders of dogma too, unfortunately.

    I don’t think so; as Episcopalians, don’t we get to vote on stuff like that?

  107. 107
    demimondian says:

    as Episcopalians, don’t we get to vote on stuff like that?

    If you can wangle an appointment to the next House of Delegates, yes.

    Now, rachel, how many days of General Convention do *you* want to sit through?

  108. 108
    The Other Steve says:

    I don’t think so; as Episcopalians, don’t we get to vote on stuff like that?

    No.

    That would be the Church of Scotland.

  109. 109
    The Other Steve says:

    It’s amazing how blatant ABC is getting with their bias lately. Ever since that hokey 9/11 film

    The fact that Terry Moran is nearly as Moranic as his brother is not surprising though.

  110. 110

    Blogswarm Tsunami Drowns Edwards’ Bloggers:

    Today the Edwards Campaign predictably dumped their besieged bloggers after a blog-initiated and fed firestorm of criticism went mainstream and then, just as predicitably, cycled back into the Blogosphere for more fuel. The Edwards’ bloggers first sin…

  111. 111
    Sirkowski says:

    And what’s about conservatives being offended by the word ‘fuck’ and swearing in general? What a bunch of wusses, isn’t swearing something real men do (or liberated women)?

  112. 112
    Tulkinghorn says:

    It is the liberated women part. The Bushes, for example, like there women educated yet so compromised by privilege and by nepotism that they are remarkably tame. See, Bush, Barbara; Cheny, Mary.

  113. 113

    It is the liberated women part. The Bushes, for example, like there women educated yet so compromised by privilege and by nepotism that they are remarkably tame.

    Women, like children, should be seen and not heard?

  114. 114
    Vladi G says:

    Today the Edwards Campaign predictably dumped their besieged bloggers after a blog-initiated and fed firestorm of criticism went mainstream and then, just as predicitably, cycled back into the Blogosphere for more fuel. The Edwards’ bloggers first sin…

    Oops! Hey, is that Ayatollah dead yet?

  115. 115
    mere mortal says:

    Oh, this is precious.

    You have sympathy for Amanda, because the poor, poor dear might lose a job she is about to take on? Terrible people have taken it upon themselves to smear her for her statements and beliefs.

    Fine.

    She herself, however, had no difficulty, no compunction about piling on an attempt to ruin the lives of three innocent Duke students, with her unfounded (in fact disproven), casual allegations of rape. Allegations she has yet to retract and for which she has not apologized.

    Sorry, I can’t square that circle. Wrong is wrong, and whatever vile motives and behavior Donahue and his ilk have exhibited, Marcotte’s are yet more vile.

  116. 116
    mere mortal says:

    A small retraction. When I wrote:

    “Wrong is wrong, and whatever vile motives and behavior Donahue and his ilk have exhibited, Marcotte’s are yet more vile.”

    I had not perceived the vile depths of Donahue. He wins going away.

    Marcotte was and is still wrong about the rape libel, though. It irritates me to see my allies in policy preferences fail to stand up for what is right in this case.

  117. 117

    Donahue is an idiot. Why does MSNBC give him a microphone and let him on the air? They know he’s a bigot and a raving lunatic, yet they throw his bible-thumping arse up there all the time.

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. Blogswarm Tsunami Drowns Edwards’ Bloggers:

    Today the Edwards Campaign predictably dumped their besieged bloggers after a blog-initiated and fed firestorm of criticism went mainstream and then, just as predicitably, cycled back into the Blogosphere for more fuel. The Edwards’ bloggers first sin…

  2. […] A fair point in the comments: […]

  3. Overlawyered says:

    Marcotte’s regrets

    I wouldn’t even go so far as to say there’s things I “regret”. There are comments I’ve made that tone-deaf wingnuts don’t understand, sure. — John Edwards official campaign blogger Amanda Marcotte, or someone posing…

Comments are closed.