Making It Simple

Wiser folks have said this already, but it is worth reiterating, but the reason this is so damaging to the Republican party is that it resonates with people, pure and simple.

There are a lot of facts to this case we don’t know, and the Republicans and the spinmeisters are going to do their level best to muddy the waters with ambiguity and uncertainties. We really don’t know who “WHINTERNOW” is and why the website that leaked the emails exists or whether it was a hit job or a dirty trick.

But it doesn’t matter.

We really don’t know what exactly the House leadership knew and when they knew it, and I am sure that will all be sanitized and put in the best possible light over the next few weeks.

But it doesn’t matter.

We really don’t know if there was anything the House leadership could have done to stop him based on the vague emails- my guess is there was, but that will be spun away over the next few weeks.

But it doesn’t matter.

We really don’t know if Foley actually had sex with any underage teens.

But it doesn’t matter.

But what we do know, and what the American public now knows, is that the party that has spent the past few years demagoguing safety and security and law and order is now known as the party that has screwed up the Iraq war, that has codified torture, that has been filled to the rim with criminals and crooks fleecing the treasury (and who knows what else), and is now known as the party that at its most basic can’t be trusted, because they are the party that has middle age perverts trying to bugger your kids. And even better, the Republican House Leadership didn’t give enough of a shit to do anything about it because it might get messy or it might get in the way of their desires for power and actively hid the information from the oppostion party and the puBlic (or, as we might say, PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE DONE THE RIGHT THING).

And that matters. People understand that. You can’t get around it, like you can the other issues. Iraq is complicated, and there can be some leeway for mistakes. National security is important, and you can talk away some of the distastrous decisions made by the GOP as simple disagreements. People are jaded and cynical, and when you point to Abramoff and Cunningham and other crooks, people are inclined to throw up their hands and say “All politicans are crooks.”

But when it comes to messing with people’s kids, it is a whole different ball game. It is hard for voters to get past the idea that their kid might be upstairs on his computer getting perved on by middle-aged Republicans while the leadership of the party (the party of values, mind you), informed of this man’s predilections, was just too busy to be bothered. Ask your neighbor what they think of the party that harbors a man who, in his spare time, spends hours IMing teenagers to measure their penis.

People understand that, and it should scare the shit out of the GOP.

*** Update ***

And people are going to laugh at these repeated attempts to claim ABC news is the real criminal. Maybe if Foley had been hitting on a fetus, these folks would get it.

*** Update #2 ***

Maybe rather than trying to blame ABC news for not coming forward sooner (with information they didn’t have, btw), Red State should wonder why as late as Friday the GOP was trying to STIFLE information:

On Friday afternoon, a strategist for Rep. Mark Foley tried to cut a deal with ABC’s Brian Ross.

The correspondent, who had dozens of instant messages that Foley sent to teenage House pages, had asked to interview the Florida Republican. Foley’s former chief of staff said the congressman was quitting and that Ross could have that information exclusively if he agreed not to publish the raw, sexually explicit messages.

“I said we’re not making any deals,” Ross recalls. He says the Internet made the story possible, because on Thursday he posted a story on his ABC Web page, the Blotter, after obtaining one milder e-mail that Foley had sent a 16-year-old page, asking for a picture. Within two hours, former pages had e-mailed Ross and provided the salacious messages. The only question then, says Ross, was “whether this could be authenticated.”

The house of cards is falling…






190 replies
  1. 1
    scarshapedstar says:

    But what we do know, and what the American public now knows, is that the party that has spent the past few years demagoguing safety and security and law and order is now known as the party that has screwed up the Iraq war, that has codified torture, that has been filled to the rim with criminals and crooks fleecing the treasury, and who knows what else, is now known as the party that at its most basic can’t be trusted, because they are the party that has middle age perverts trying to bugger your kids, and the House Leadership didn’t give enough of a shit to do anything about it because it might get messy or it might get in the way of their desires for power.

    Please, John. Wait ’till all the facts are in.

  2. 2
    Ben says:

    Wait ’till all the facts are in….. after the election. Then it’ll be far worse than anyone imagined. That’s par for the course with the G.O.P.

  3. 3
    Ugh says:

    Shrill!!

  4. 4
    Nicholas Weaver says:

    Worse: Its something people pay attention to…

    How many Americans can even find Iraq on a map, or understand the subtlties of international terrorism. Who can actually tell you what waterboarding actual entales. Or pay attention to white collar crime. Anyone who’s really paying attention should be royally pissed with the current Republican leadership. But most people aren’t paying attention.

    But child molesters? DEM FOLKS EVIL, AND SHUD BE CASTRATED!

    At least Foley wasn’t giving the kids Jesus Juice. (At least not that we know of, we hope)

  5. 5
    Halffasthero says:

    This is summed up very nicely. I don’t see any way that this can be spun to exonerate the House leadership – much less, the individual member. The Republicans are going to get their heads handed to them on a platter and no one to blame but themselves.

  6. 6
    Tsulagi says:

    People understand that, and it should scare the shit out of the GOP

    Yep. The Roves and Mehlmans know to keep it simple. Fling shit at your opponent and then point and talk about his attempts to wipe it off.

    A little payback wouldn’t be too bad a thing. Dump them into this big Foleygate pile of shit and talk about their feverish attempts to find the pony.

  7. 7
    RSA says:

    DEM REPUBLICAN FOLKS EVIL, AND SHUD BE CASTRATED!

    Fixed.

  8. 8
    Mike S says:

    The reason I no longer call myself a Catholic is not because of the abuse so much as it is the way they covered it up for decades. They had to “protect” the church and were more conserned with that than they were with protecting the children.

    That seems to be the direction this is moving in and if that was all the GOP leadership was interested in then they are far more horrid than I ever imagined.

  9. 9
    Pb says:

    First, they said that all the facts weren’t in. Then, it wasn’t time for criticism. Then, they weren’t going to play the blame game. Later, they said that they could not comment on an ongoing investigation. And finally, they said it was old news.

    Incidentally, Rep. Brad Miller nailed it a while back:

    “I know that this administration thinks that accountability is an ephemeral thing. If there is an attempt at accountability too soon, it’s finger pointing. If there is an attempt at accountability too late, then it’s something you should get over. There is just a moment for accountability.

    “Mr. Speaker, tell me when that moment will be. Tell me precisely when the moment will come for accountability for the failures of our response, for the failures of our planning that have led to the devastation and the hardships that we are seeing now.

    “And Mr. Speaker, tell me where the line forms to ask hard questions. I yield back the balance of my time.”

  10. 10
    Jason JL says:

    ummm…John? shouldn’t you have a tag for “Republican Corruption”? This goes quite beyond “stupidity.”

  11. 11
    Krista says:

    First, they said that all the facts weren’t in. Then, it wasn’t time for criticism. Then, they weren’t going to play the blame game. Later, they said that they could not comment on an ongoing investigation. And finally, they said it was old news.

    Yep. And pray tell, why have they been allowed to set the terms like this? Why has the media swallowed this horse-doody and played along?

  12. 12
    Punchy says:

    We need to get a firm, sweaty grasp on a good scandal name here. “Foleygate” is bland and uninspired. DougJ hit a ground rule double with:

    Operation Enduring Pedophile

    Not knowing we could go outside the “gate”, I now propose a few more, to be either voted on by BJers (pun intended, I guess), or deleted by a disgusted Sir Cole:

    We could go meta–Friend, or Foley?
    We could go Bob Seger–Turn the Page (hell, “Like a Rock” works, too)
    We could try Navy–Jump Onboard, and enjoy the Seamen!
    We could go word manipulation–Congressio-anal page
    We could go academic–Foley’s School: BYU…Bang ’em Young Uni.
    We could go stupid–Washington D(i)C(k)

    Carry it away. I’ve queered the thread, so I apologize, but we really do need to hammer down a good moniker

  13. 13
    jg says:

    Why has the media swallowed this horse-doody and played along?

    Because if they don’t they’ll be labelled liberal and no one will watch their news shows or read their articles. This suppresses ad dollars. Can’t have that.

  14. 14
    Mr Furious says:

    Why is this such a problem for Republicans? In a big fucking nutshell…

    Earlier this year a Republican-sponsored Act was signed into law making clearly illegal the exact behavior Foley engaged in. The “Adam Walsh Child Protection Act of 2006.”

    Statements by key Republicans at the time [compiled by Gleen Greenwald]:

    Hastert: “At home, we put the security of our children first and Republicans are doing just that in our nation’s House. We’ve all seen the disturbing headlines about sex offenders and crimes against children. These crimes cannot persist. Protecting our children from Internet predators and child exploitation enterprises are just as high a priority as securing our border from terrorists. . . That’s why today we passed the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006.”

    John Boehner: “House Republicans have a record of working to strengthen our communities and protect American values. So far this year, House Republicans have approved legislation that protects our children from Internet predators and violent criminal offenders; improves communications capabilities of first responders and emergency personnel; and guarantees Americans’ freedom to display the American flag and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.”

    [Greenwald] As much as anything else, that is what this scandal is about — GOP House Leaders prancing around as the Protectors of our nation’s children from Internet Predators while, at the same time, apparently knowing that there was such a predator in their midst. And they not only failed to do anything about it, but they actively worked to conceal the behavior (by, as noted below, ensuring that all Democrats — including even the Democrat on the House Page Board — were blocked from learning about these accusations). As Hastert put it at the top of his Press Release (emphasis in original): “At home we put children first, and Republicans are doing just that in the House.”

    George W. Bush, President of the United States, when he signed the Act into law: “And the bill I sign today will strengthen federal laws to protect our children from sexual and other violent crimes, will help prevent child pornography, and will make the Internet safer for our sons and daughters. . . .

    Protecting our children is our solemn responsibility. It’s what we must do. When a child’s life or innocence is taken it is a terrible loss — it’s an act of unforgivable cruelty. Our society has a duty to protect our children from exploitation and danger. By enacting this law we’re sending a clear message across the country: those who prey on our children will be caught, prosecuted and punished to the fullest extent of the law.”

    Or, they’ll be carefully covered for because he raises lots of money and sits in a “safe” House seat. One or the other.

  15. 15
    t. jasper parnell says:

    At least once a year I teach Nazi Germany and when dealing with the Nazi leadership, I always point out that devoted father and family man Goebbles killed his kids before taking his own life. It seems to bring home to the kiddies, who are often not so young, the degree of just flat out evil awfulness of the bunch. I hope that this event has that affect.

    All signs point to pre-existing knowledge and cover-up in the service of ever expanding power, lies, dissimulation and general mopery. If properly handled, this event will function or could function like an analogical argument for the gross malfeasance and whatnot of the boobocracy that this sect of criminals and anti-American louts have foisted on us all.

  16. 16
    Mike S says:

    Baby Hewy Hewitt

    Democrats’ shrill charges that the GOP leadership knew about the Foley IMs as opposed to the original e-mail also telegraph what their return to the majority in either House would mean: Endless hearings into fever swamp scandal-mongering. The voters got a preview of that sort of D.C. this weekend, as the left’s deep unbalanced approach to politics unfurled itself not just with regard to Foley’s very likely criminal behavior but also by the collective seizing on the Woodward book as “new and important.”

    Think about that for a minute. Baby Hewy doesn’t think it should be investigated. A prime example of the so called “morals” people in the GOP. “Fuck the children, we need to hold onto power.”

    Not to mention the asshattery of this statement about the Dems.

    Endless hearings into fever swamp scandal-mongering.

    From the party that demanded that Clinton’s dick be photographed that is one hell of a statement.

  17. 17
    ThymeZone says:

    the party that has spent the past few years demagoguing safety and security and law and order is now known as the party that has screwed up the Iraq war, that has codified torture, that has been filled to the rim with criminals and crooks fleecing the treasury, and who knows what else, is now known as the party that at its most basic can’t be trusted,

    Hmm. Yeah. And the blogger that saw Cindy Sheehan, who lost her son in that war, camped out in Texas and courageously saying a lot of those same things, and made merciless and constant fun of her to the extent that it became and remains a standing joke now in these quaters, now wants to don the robes of piety and preach moral outrage at the bad behavior of Republicans.

    I’m sorry, I just can’t get myself to buy into this today. I’m going to need a little more chest thumping to really get into the spirit.

  18. 18
    Pb says:

    It was already a great post, John, but…

    Maybe if Foley has been hitting on a fetus, these folks would get it.

    ROFL… An even better update!

  19. 19
    Mike S says:

    Great update. Standard Redstate/GOPundit fare. Find anyway possible to deflect it too the media and the cultists of the party will jump right on board with it.

  20. 20
    ThymeZone says:

    Find anyway possible to deflect it too the media

    What did we think they were going to do? Roll over and do a mass resignation?

    You are dealing with the inner circle of power in Washington DC, where they play every day with live ammunition. Not only will they deflect that stuff, they will also try to use the churn about it to deflect from still other stuff. They will employ every piece on the board to their advantage if they can.

  21. 21
    Pb says:

    Entirely appropriate too:

    Oh, I don’t think that should have been                                                by kowalski

    I don’t think that would have been much of a concern. If you were an aid and you really wanted to make the story public you could have found a million ways to do it. I don’t think the aids themselves really wanted to make it public, though. It was too much fun! And Rep. Foley knew that he was “protected” by that wall of internal silence.

    Think about what you just said for a second: you’re a Congressional aide or page and you have firsthand knowledge about how a Congressman is quite deliberately soliciting male minors. And you are one of the recipients. Do you like the attention? In some cases, I think you would. I think some of the people in this case didn’t come forward because they thought it was frankly innocuous conduct.

    Sick sick sick sick sick!

  22. 22
    Krista says:

    UnderagePageGate.

    It has that nice rhyming factor in it, and isn’t too esoteric as to be lost on your general public.

  23. 23
    tBone says:

    From a comment in that RS thread:

    In fact, the FBI should be seizing all of the computers at Melanie Sloan’s office over at CREW and investigating what she knew, and when.

    Jesus wept.

  24. 24
    Tsulagi says:

    “Foleygate” is bland and uninspired.

    Agreed, Foleygate is too bland a title for this page turner. I’m really looking forward to TDS and Colbert tonight for some better suggestions for the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Congress. BTW, a nurse yesterday at a party mentioned the catheter inserted into a penis is called a “Foley” catheter. Don’t even want to think about that one.

  25. 25
    ThymeZone says:

    BTW, a nurse yesterday at a party mentioned the catheter inserted into a penis is called a “Foley” catheter. Don’t even want to think about that one.

    The GOP tried to ride Bill Clinton’s penis to fame and fortune, and ended up boosting his popularity by overplaying their hand. If eligible, Clinton probably would have won a third term. And they had all the facts on their side. Al Gore, not a voter-friendly candidate, ended up getting more votes than Bush despite the two-year-long scandal in his White House.

    This is not the simple dynamic that you think it is.

  26. 26
    Punchy says:

    Maybe if Foley has been hitting on a fetus, these folks would get it.

    Or a bed-ridden, brain-dead vegetable.

  27. 27
    tBone says:

    This is not the simple dynamic that you think it is.

    Boss boinks secretary: sleazy and disgusting, but basically none of our business.

    Boss trying to boink teenage boys: get out the pitchforks!

    As John said, this hits people on a visceral level in a way that Monicagate never did.

  28. 28
    ThymeZone says:

    As John said, this hits people on a visceral level in a way that Monicagate never did.

    Amazing. Monicagate was THE STORY in the news and on the talk circuit for a very long time. Not A story, THE story.

    NBC News declared it “The end of the Clinton Presidency.” Not on a Sunday talk show, in prime time.

    It was by far the story of the decade. Bigger than the Gulf War. Bigger than the attack on WTC. Bigger than Waco. It trumped EVERYTHING.

    Christ. I give up, you guys are just senseless over this thing.

  29. 29
    Richard Bottoms says:

    Christ. I give up, you guys are just senseless over this thing.

    Is that a promise?

  30. 30
    Richard Bottoms says:

    I am going to personaly bitch slap any Democrat who moans about how uncomfortable winning this way makes him feel. And a double backhanded slap for anyone who wishes St. McCain could help clean up all this mess. Fuck him.

    Not only is it time to turn up the heat, but after we take a rehtorical lead pipe to the GOP’s head, we need to make sure every slimey, dishonest thing they have ever done by any Republican in the last six years is the personal reponsibility of any Republican running anywhere.

    They are now all Foley Republicans.

  31. 31
    ThymeZone says:

    Is that a promise?

    No.

  32. 32
    Proud Liberal says:

    The GOP tried to ride Bill Clinton’s penis to fame and fortune, and ended up boosting his popularity by overplaying their hand.

    TZ now gives us the Britt Hume defense. Give me a FUCKING BREAK. Clinton having an extra marital affair with an adult and then lying about it might strike a chord with one or two Americans. But a 53 year old Congressman trying to seduce male page after male page entrusted into his care is a tad different. Or, perhaps you don’t think so? Never did give me that answer on NAMBLA, perhaps you don’t think what Foley did was wrong as long as they were over the age of consent. Is that it TZ?

  33. 33
    capelza says:

    Liveboygate.

    There were a few people at Red State I thoght still had some brains and or decency…well now..not so much. I have linked to them more in the last couple days that I have for months. Please stop… ;)

  34. 34
    tBone says:

    It was by far the story of the decade. Bigger than the Gulf War. Bigger than the attack on WTC. Bigger than Waco. It trumped EVERYTHING.

    Yeah. And despite all that, despite the media feeding frenzy, Clinton walked away from it with an approval rating in the 60s. Why? Because at the end of the day people didn’t care that much about a consensual affair involving adults.

    Do you think that maybe, just maybe, the story would have had a different ending if he had been caught IM-sexing a 16-year-old?

    The situations aren’t comparable.

  35. 35
    Steve says:

    Monicagate was THE STORY in the news and on the talk circuit for a very long time. Not A story, THE story.

    The issue isn’t the level of media coverage. The issue is whether it will resonate as a voting issue in a way that Monicagate, while titillating, did not.

    If people come to believe that the Republican leadership shielded this guy just like the Catholic Church, that’s going to hit home with a LOT of people. Keeping your kids safe is a voting issue.

  36. 36
    ThymeZone says:

    Never did give me that answer on NAMBLA,

    I am not going to answer a jerk who tries to insinuate a NAMBLA connection because I won’t agree with him.

    I have made a rather simple political assertion here, and so far I have been called a Republican in disguise, a NAMBLA member, “scs”, and a host of other names, including “stubborn” for apparently refusing to knuckle under to the adversaries who outnumber me.

    What is the matter with you?

    And you are politically dead wrong about the Foley case. The Foley crimes are off the table, the man has resigned and gone away in disgrace. The only thing you have now is the “coverup” case and the GOP is going to rope a dope you on that unless you have something else to reveal. Without a smoking gun, I don’t see that story going anywhere at this point, unless Hastert’s opponent can turn it into a House seat. I doubt that he can but I’d love to be proven wrong.

  37. 37
    Richard Bottoms says:

    There were a few people at Red State I thoght still had some brains and or decency

    That’s your problem right there.

    There are no bad Democrats.

    Thre are no good Republicans.

    Victory 2006. Victory 2008.

  38. 38
    Proud Liberal says:

    Stephenopoulous gets it:

    Right now it’s a category 3 hurricane and it’s picking up steam. Republicans all across the country are getting questions about it. But here’s the key question: Did any Republican leaders know about those x-rated emails? If they did, it’s game over. The leadership will have to resign. It will cost Republicans control of Congress. As one top GOP aide told me this morning, ‘the place will burn down.’

    nah….. according to TZ this is just a storm in a teapot, lets get back to talking about a phased re-deployment of troops over the horizon, that’ll get us elected.

  39. 39
    capelza says:

    Richard. I’m a Dem..hell I’m a proud liberal, but I just can’t bring myself to get the pom poms out for THAT sentiment.

    Linciln Chaffee voted against the torture bill, 12 Democrats did not.

  40. 40
    ThymeZone says:

    If people come to believe that the Republican leadership shielded this guy just like the Catholic Church

    Steve, you have only a few weeks to make that happen, and the GOP is not going to cooperate with you.

    And you have to do that while taking focus away from the things that are already winning you the House.

    I’d have predicted a week ago that we gain 16-18 seats in the House, before I ever heard of Foley. To each his own prediction, but we’re not desperate.

    Your opponents are going to manage the news cycles and make this into an isolated case of deranged behavior, and a surprised, shocked leadership that “couldn’t have anticipated” the real story here. Even if they only do that successfully for a month, you lose. Especially if you take your energy away from the winning issues already at hand, and end up losing the House as a result.

    You are advocating taking a huge gamble. I’m advocating backing off.

  41. 41

    The Republican responses to this are just fucking pathetic.

    – That email was CREEPY. That should have clued someone off right then and there. Maybe if they’d investigated it then instead of trying to hide it, the IMs would have shown up.

    – Quit shooting the messenger. The victims are not the ones who are a problem, it’s the guy trying to line up young boys for sex. I mean how fucking pathetic are you to blame the victim?

  42. 42

    […] Also — Balloon Juice has some wonderful posts up about this incredible political explosion.  This is my favorite. […]

  43. 43
    Proud Liberal says:

    The only thing you have now is the “coverup”

    Two words: Richard Nixon

  44. 44
    DougJ says:

    Look, TZ, GOP leadership has to give us some straight answers on why they did nothing and why they didn’t even tell the other members fo the page board.

    How can you possibly disagree with that? As long they’re still obviously obfuscating, they deserve to be nailed to the wall.

    I don’t even care about the politics of it. When you have a chance to make political leaders tell the truth, you do it. That’s why democracies function relatively well for the most part. Because it’s possible to do that.

    I don’t care what the issue is — if I’m being lied to, I don’t like it. And if I’m in a position to turn up the heat and end the lying I do it. We don’t have that opportunity with most things and we never will. We have it here and we need to take advantage.

    And when I say “we”, I mean the American people. I’m sick of being lied to — not as a liberal, but as an American. That’s what this is about. If we lose the election trying to make them tell the truth, I can live with that. If we lose by backing off and acting like wusses, I can’t.

  45. 45
    Andrew says:

    The RedStaters are demanding that the FBI sieze Chuck Schumer’s computers. Really. They are that bat shit insane.

  46. 46
    Pb says:

    The Other Steve,

    Yep. And their ridiculous suspicions have been unfounded and proven false time and time again:

    He says the Internet made the story possible, because on Thursday he posted a story on his ABC Web page, the Blotter, after obtaining one milder e-mail that Foley had sent a 16-year-old page, asking for a picture. Within two hours, former pages had e-mailed Ross and provided the salacious messages.

    Remember back when Patrick Fitzgerald was *secretly* going after the *real* culprits–Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame?

  47. 47
    Mr Furious says:

    Not to go all RedState, but if it’s discovered that prominant Dems held this info til October, it will weaken a lot of this…

  48. 48
    Steve says:

    Steve, you have only a few weeks to make that happen, and the GOP is not going to cooperate with you.

    And you have to do that while taking focus away from the things that are already winning you the House.

    It’s already out there. We knew from day one that Republican leadership knew about this last year, and now it’s emerging that they may have known for much longer than that. People are already asking the questions. The pressure is pretty much on Hastert to explain it away at this point.

    There’s going to be tremendous focus on this story no matter what Dems do. The choice is between ratcheting up the pressure on the Republican leadership, and saying “let’s wait for all the facts to come in, right now I have another speech about outsourcing to make.”

    If the Dems had the power to dictate the topic of the national conversation, we probably wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with. They don’t. All they can do is not fumble the opportunity to talk about something big. Because if they sit back and let the GOP have 100% control over the spin of yet another issue, it’s going to be a crying shame.

  49. 49
    Tsulagi says:

    The GOP tried to ride Bill Clinton’s penis to fame and fortune, and ended up boosting his popularity by overplaying their hand.

    Yes, Clinton kept his popularity. But net result for Democrats as a whole? The Pubs rode his penis to expanded control of Congress and then a president on family values, honor and integrity. Plus used that to put bible thumpers on the bench.

    What you seem to fail or wish not to recognize is that the Pubs have sold themselves to an electorate as the Party of Big Dicks and has been rewarded for it. It wouldn’t hurt to point out one of them fiddled with his as Iraq burned and leadership lacking honor and integrity tried to put a curtain around him (Foley) and pages while he continued to do so.

  50. 50
    Richard Bottoms says:

    Linciln Chaffee voted against the torture bill, 12 Democrats did not.

    He is a Republican. His seat helps them keep a majority. For that reason alone he needs to be defeated. And not just defeated but destryed. We want the Republicans to put up their most divisive Right-Wing nutjobs as possible so we can defeat them.

    Any other thinking from a Democrat is foolish.

    The Republicans understand this. You do not toss out your guys and give the other side a seat. You keep the seat and then work behind the scenes to first cripple them politically, then replace them in your party’s primary.

    As for the 12 Dems. We do exactly the same thing.

  51. 51
    Proud Liberal says:

    TZ:

    I have made a rather simple political assertion here, and so far I have been called a Republican in disguise, a NAMBLA member

    no, you’ve made more than just a political assertion. These comments concern me:

    First of all, there’s a sex police quality to the story that I find troubing. A little too much glee at the outing of a gay guy. A sixteen year old can marry in a few states in this country, including the one I live in.

    so then they are “fair game”?

    and then there is this:

    As for the wider “scandal,” I see it as having legs only if there are laws being broken and the crime is covered up. If it is just man on man action being covered up, frankly, I don’t give a shit, I don’t think it’s any of our business.

    Sorry TZ, I STRONGLY disagree with you. It is VERY MUCH OUR BUSINESS if a Congressman is hitting on 16 year old pages sent to Congress. You’re not thinking so is not just a “political assertion” it’s a bizarre perspective that I find rather disturbing.

  52. 52
    ThymeZone says:

    Bay Buchanan vs Paul Begala on CNN, on this topic, within the quarter hour. My very short paraphrase:

    Begala: Hastert can’t be trusted with leadership, he failed to protect the kid. Not because he is bad, but because he has been in Washington too long and forgets the real concerns of real people.

    Buchanan: Hastert was wrong, but he is doing the right thing by calling for an investigation. What we need now is investigation.

    I think there you have the battle lines at this date and time. Hastert was wrong, but he is doing the right thing. He isn’t bad, he just goofed.

    The focus will be spun into the need for more investigation, and one will have to sound shrill and unreasonable to ask for heads on sticks (no pun intended) until the investigation is complete.

    Just like I said they would, I think. And I think this works for them given the time frame. The time frame works for them two ways. One, it puts pressure on Dems to make a clear case while facts are still not in, which means they have to raise their voices, which means they aren’t talking about better stuff. Two, it runs out the clock for the other side. You can already see the gears in their heads turning while the people on our side are just a little to happy to be foaming at the mouth. Big mistake.

    Also, this:

    Begala: (asked whether Dems should focus on this issue WRT to the midterms): I don’t know.

  53. 53
    Steve says:

    Yes, Clinton kept his popularity. But net result for Democrats as a whole? The Pubs rode his penis to expanded control of Congress and then a president on family values, honor and integrity.

    Actually, the Republicans didn’t gain seats in the House or Senate in either the 1998 or 2000 elections. The only gains they made in Congress came after 9/11.

  54. 54
    ThymeZone says:

    It is VERY MUCH OUR BUSINESS if a Congressman is hitting on 16 year old pages sent to Congress.

    On that point, I agree with you. At time that I wrote the blurb you reference, I did not know that the explicit IMs were to pages. Knowing that, I fully agree with you.

  55. 55
    Richard Bottoms says:

    Not to go all RedState, but if it’s discovered that prominant Dems held this info til October, it will weaken a lot of this…

    Oh please.

    ABC says them simply put out feelers it there was more to the story and go the IM’s.

    CREW got hold of the so-called ambiguous emails in July and propptly notified the FBI.

    The GOP leadership shut the Democrat member of Page oversight out of its actions. A move they now regret.

    Why are our guys so afraid to pull out the big guns when the other side keeps dropping bullets everywhere.

    Destroy Hastert and his buddies, stop fretting about it. I assure they would have no such qualms on the other side.

  56. 56
    Pb says:

    Mr Furious,

    if it’s discovered that prominant Dems held this info til October

    First, that’s technically impossible, but more seriously, there’s no evidence of that, and much evidence to the contrary. Actually, it seems that other *Republicans* on the page board didn’t know about this either, and no Democrats. But if unfounded speculation is the name of the game, I can play that as well. What if it’s discovered that Laura Bush knew about this all along, and told her husband, but he wouldn’t do anything? I mean… what if, man, *what if*?

  57. 57
    ThymeZone says:

    Look, TZ, GOP leadership has to give us some straight answers on why they did nothing and why they didn’t even tell the other members fo the page board.

    How can you possibly disagree with that? As long they’re still obviously obfuscating, they deserve to be nailed to the wall.

    Yes, but you are making a value statement whereas I am making a political practicality statement.

    Even if they only rope the dope for twenty-thirty days, they win the game on this. Long term, they probably lose big time, but if House seats are their concern, they only have to run the clock down. Hastert is doing it today as we speak, making his high-sounding speeches and being outraged.

  58. 58
    Steve says:

    I think there you have the battle lines at this date and time. Hastert was wrong, but he is doing the right thing. He isn’t bad, he just goofed.

    All you did is underscore why Paul Begala is an idiot. I mean, here you have Republicans saying that the Democratic Party wants to get you killed by terrorists, and guys like Begala fight back by saying “Hastert isn’t a bad guy, he’s just out of touch.” What a stupid message. Fortunately, very few people get their news from Paul Begala.

    The reason why I think this works for Dems – in a way that, say, the Downing Street Memo would not – is because, to most people, the Republican leadership ALREADY looks dirty on this. Especially if you’re Catholic, it hardly takes a stretch to believe there was a cover-up, and that pisses people off. The Dems don’t have to make an affirmative case; the GOP gets to play defense for once, because everyone believes they’re guilty. You’re treating this issue like it’s something Democrats have to sell from scratch, which isn’t the case.

  59. 59
    Steve says:

    Actually, it seems that other Republicans on the page board didn’t know about this either, and no Democrats.

    There are only three people on the Page Board: the Republican chairman (who knew), Rep. Shelly Moore Capito (R-WV), and Rep. Dale Kildee (D-MI). Just to clarify.

    Kildee said this today:

    In my 21 years as a Member of the House Page Board, every decision has been made on not just a bi-partisan basis but on a non-partisan basis, with our main concern always being the safety and wellbeing of the young teenagers who serve the U.S. House as pages.

    I was outraged to learn that the House Republican leadership kept to itself the knowledge of Mr. Foley’s despicable behavior toward the House Pages.

    I am now equally outraged to learn that Republican House Speaker Dennis Hastert announced today that there will be changes in the policies of the House Page program. Once again, I was not informed of the meeting today, nor was I consulted in any way about any proposed changes.

    And once again, the House Republican leadership is following the same pattern of unilateral decision-making that caused this problem in the first place in the Mark Foley issue. Speaker Hastert’s announcement this afternoon is yet another example of the House Republican leadership being more concerned with finding political cover for themselves than with the safety and wellbeing of the House pages.

    Kildee, incidentally, is not exactly a partisan bomb-thrower… but he does represent Michael Moore’s district. :)

  60. 60
    ThymeZone says:

    What a stupid message. Fortunately, very few people get their news from Paul Begala.

    It’s a weasel message, and all of these people are weasels.

    But that’s part of the problem: They are all weasels, and the public sees them all as weasels. The politicians, the pundits, all of them.

    That’s why I fear that the Pubs stir up the “Some say” dialogue for a little while and end up not only dodging this bullet, but taking away the energy in other bullets.

    We play into their evil hands by overreacting. No?

  61. 61
    ThymeZone says:

    You’re treating this issue like it’s something Democrats have to sell from scratch, which isn’t the case.

    I think you are assuming a fact not in evidence (cough lawyer talk cough) … namely, that “people” will see this as tarring Republicans, as opposed to tarring politicians and Congressmen sort of in general a little they are all crooks can’t trust any of ’em etc.

    I think the desire to see this tarring Republicans in particular, and in the heads of the desired demographic which is middle-road voters, is based more on wishful thinking than anything else.

    Nothing would please me more than a poll next week that says “Foley case clinches House win for Dems, Polls Say.”

    With that I will bake and eat a Crow Pie and send you the pictures. And I will be happy as can be to win the House even if Foley is the only issue that makes it happen.

  62. 62
    Tsulagi says:

    Actually, the Republicans didn’t gain seats in the House or Senate in either the 1998 or 2000 elections. The only gains they made in Congress came after 9/11.

    Really? Without looking it up I thought they might have picked up a few seats then. My bad. Still, the family values, honor and integrity initially got them a presidency. After 9/11 they transitioned to the Party of Big Dicks, the GI Joes/Jack Bauers defending the country over there while fighting the Nazi appeasers here.

  63. 63
    Steve says:

    I think you are assuming a fact not in evidence (cough lawyer talk cough) … namely, that “people” will see this as tarring Republicans, as opposed to tarring politicians and Congressmen sort of in general a little they are all crooks can’t trust any of ‘em etc.

    A lot of the points you’re making are completely valid in other contexts. Look how difficult it was to sell the Abramoff scandal as a Republican scandal, for the love of God, and Abramoff was about the most partisan Republican you’ll ever find.

    But on this specific case, I have a different judgment. This one is really getting hung on the Republicans and their leadership. In fact, I wonder how many people, as a result of following this story, will realize for the first time that the Republicans control Congress.

    It’s possible the GOP spin-meisters will find a way to murk up the issue – but it’s going to have to be more clever than the Redstate “whoever exposed this is equally guilty!” angle.

  64. 64
    ThymeZone says:

    It’s possible the GOP spin-meisters will find a way to murk up the issue – but it’s going to have to be more clever than the Redstate “whoever exposed this is equally guilty!” angle.

    Well, they have to put that angle out there for the Macs and the Darrells, so that they can understand it. Let’s be fair.

    But what worries me is that the evil of the Pubs knows no bounds. If they see a way to leverage overreaction into cover for themselves, they will do it without blinking an eye. And the foam-at-mouth reaction plays right into that.

    —//

    This just in … new GOP candidate in Foley’s district appears on CNN, says he thinks he can win against Mahoney.

  65. 65
    Mr Furious says:

    Richard, Pb–

    I’m not saying it should weaken the message or that there is any reason to hold back. I just want to point out that the biggest attack we have here is that the Repukes held on to this for political reason, and if the Dems did likewise, it’s hpocritical, and I am hoping it is not true.

    I still think they should fucking hammer theses guys. TZ is wrong and so is Begala.

    This shit will resonate. This is a real fear parents have for their kids.

  66. 66
    Punchy says:

    Not to go all RedState, but if it’s discovered that prominant Dems held this info til October, it will weaken a lot of this…

    Fury, from everything I’ve read today, this just isn’t the case. The Rs went so far out of the way to hide it, that they only informed the R’s pages about Foley.

    THAT, to me, is a fucking disgrace. It’s like only telling white people about a car’s brake defect, becuase one hates Black people. Holy fuck….

  67. 67
    Proud Liberal says:

    On Hardball Howard Fineman made the point that I have been trying to make all along, this Foley mess is a missle aimed right at the republican base. The “values” voters. The ones that came out because of the shrewd strategy of the gay marriage initiatives in many states. This will depress that vote big time.

  68. 68
    ThymeZone says:

    Fury, from everything I’ve read today, this just isn’t the case. The Rs went so far out of the way to hide it, that they only informed the R’s pages about Foley.

    Are you sure about that? That the pages are assigned to members by party?

  69. 69
    Pb says:

    Hopefully this will work… if you’re interested in browsing the Congressional Record, you can see what Foley has had to say to the departing pages on several occasions. He was quite involved, and it sounds like he’s kept in touch with pages going back ten years or more.

  70. 70
    Proud Liberal says:

    from ABC

    Pages report to either Republican or Democratic supervisors, depending on the political party of the member of Congress who nominated them for the page program.

    .

  71. 71
    HyperIon says:

    What if it’s discovered that Laura Bush knew about this all along, and told her husband, but he wouldn’t do anything? I mean… what if, man, what if?

    as someone said on a different thread a few days ago, can we stay on planet earth for this discussion?

    and RichardB, regarding

    There are no bad Democrats.
    There are no good Republicans.

    you keep writing this and i cringe every time i read it.
    life is not that simple.

  72. 72
    Proud Liberal says:

    Greenfield “gets it”:

    What’s the relevance? Well, consider the role of social conservatives, like those who attended the recent Family Research Council gathering in Washington. They fill the ranks of GOP turnout operations at election time. Some, like James Dobson of “Focus on the Family,” have already expressed disappointment in how Republicans have treated their priorities, like gay marriage and abortion.

    As the earlier scandal shows, such conservatives are particularly likely to punish sexual misbehavior. And if they conclude that top Republican leaders did not pursue such behavior when they learned of it, the political consequences — diminished enthusiasm, lower turnouts — could be severe.

  73. 73
    OnTheOther Hand says:

    Glenn Greenwald speculates that Congressman Reynolds’ Chief of Staff (Kirk Fordham) tried to cut the deal with ABC and was in possession of the IMs. If so, Reynolds is history.

  74. 74
    Pb says:

    HyperIon,

    I think you missed the point that I was making. However, you partially made up for it by making the same point, I guess…

  75. 75
    Richard Bottoms says:

    you keep writing this and i cringe every time i read it.
    life is not that simple.

    Yes, but elections are.

    – You vote for our guys and against theirs. Always.

    – You vote for your guys even when they are a problem and replace them through retirement or challenge in primaries.

    – You never, ever compromise with them unless you absolutely have to, and then you attack them for compromising.

    I may have a beer with a Republican and be social friends with them, but politically they are to be challenged, defeated, destroyed if need be at all levels of government from dog catcher to president.

  76. 76
    sglover says:

    Proud Liberal “gets it” that Greenfield “gets it” — again, this scandal goes right to heart of the most faithful and disciplined group that Rove’s got. Not demoralizing them, not even attempting to, would be the height of incompetence.

  77. 77
    DougJ says:

    It really pains me to say this, TZ, but you are starting to sound like a concern troll. I say that not to be mean, but because it’s the truth.

  78. 78
    Richard 23 says:

    I read a couple of Free Republic threads last night and was surprised to see a certain amount of talk about how Hastert should go, the GOP deserves to lose the House and even at least one poster claiming that this scandal and leadership’s apparent coverup discouraged the poster from voting this year.

    Others were slapping down the idiotic commenters bringing up Clinton, Frank and Studds. I think it’s sinking in. It’s a scandal even mouthbreathers understand.

    When you’re losing some of the FR faithful you’re in trouble.

    Free Republic comments, at least what I was reading, were more sensible than what I have been seeing over at Just One Minute (about the big Soros/ABC sCREWjob).

  79. 79
    HyperIon says:

    I think you missed the point that I was making. However, you partially made up for it by making the same point, I guess…

    was my snark detector sensitivity set too low? sorry, then.

    these days what with all the spoofing, irony (intended and unintended), snark, missing commas, and typos (e.g., leaving out NOT, something i am prone to), it is sometimes very hard to figure out where anyone is coming from…except TZ…because he is so relentless in expressing his opinions.

    and, no, i am not suggesting that others imitate his relentlessness.

  80. 80
    ThymeZone says:

    Pages report to either Republican or Democratic supervisors, depending on the political party of the member of Congress who nominated them for the page program.

    In the course of their work, do they work for only members of “their” party?

    I’m having no luck with Google finding this out.

  81. 81
    ThymeZone says:

    except TZ…because he is so relentless in expressing his opinions.

    I respond in kind.

    That’s “relentless?” In other words, I don’t roll over and play dead when debated or challenged.

  82. 82
    ThymeZone says:

    but you are starting to sound like a concern troll

    I guess the fact that you sound half the time like a drunk is reason for me to call you a drunk, then?

    WTF, man? Really, WTF?

  83. 83
    Steve says:

    I think TZ sounds like a concern troll in the same sense that bin Laden sounds like Michael Moore.

    Now, if that statement doesn’t advance the discussion, I don’t know what will.

  84. 84
    ThymeZone says:

    It really pains me to say this

    I don’t believe you.

    I think you can’t score a point against me in debate, and you have to resort to crap like this.

    So far, I have been a NAMBLA member, a concern troll, clueless, weak, and “scs” — all because I am making an unpopular political point.

    What’s next? At this point I am embarassed to be on the side as you, honestly. I’ve been nothing but deferential to you here. What the hell are you doing?

  85. 85
    DougJ says:

    I know you aren’t a concern troll, TZ! I’m just telling you that you sound like one on this particular issue.

  86. 86
    DougJ says:

    I”m actually not trying to score a point at all. I was just listening to Air America and I now see what you’re talking about with overplaying this. But the way you’re phrasing things sounds too concern trollish.

  87. 87
    DougJ says:

    You’ve helped me calibrate my rhetoric before when I’ve gone overboard — more than once. That’s all I mean to do here.

  88. 88
    ThymeZone says:

    I’m just telling you that you sound like one

    Thanks, man. Really.

  89. 89
    ThymeZone says:

    But the way you’re phrasing things sounds too concern trollish.

    Yeah, it must be my cleft palate.

    I’ll work on it.

  90. 90
    Richard 23 says:

    For what it’s worth I think ThymeZone is neither a NAMBLA member, a concern troll, clueless, weak, nor scs. Stubborn maybe. But he’s on the right side. He wants the GOP to lose power. I may not agree him all the time, but he’s on my side.

  91. 91
    DougJ says:

    I take it back, TZ. I see that you’re responding to some irrational exuberance about OEP. I had in mind that you were responding to more moderate approaches to it and I felt like you were just jumping on everything anyone said about it. But that isn’t really the case when I look through the comments more carefully.

  92. 92
    Proud Liberal says:

    CNN’s viewers “get it”:

    Quick Poll: Do you believe that anyone who knew about former Rep. Mark Foley’s alleged inappropriate behavior with congressional pages, and did nothing, should be required to resign from office immediately?

    Yes:95%
    No: 5%

  93. 93
    ThymeZone says:

    I think we all “get it”, PL.

    Anyone who agrees with you “gets it.”

    Those who don’t agree with you are clueless members of NAMBLA.

    How … Republican … of you.

    Get off it. Self selected polling on Lou Dobbs’ show?

    Next to using a Ouija Board, that’s about as low as we can go.

  94. 94
    DougJ says:

    I don’t think volunteer polls are a great way of taking the public’s pulse.

  95. 95
    ThymeZone says:

    I take it back, TZ.

    Me too.

  96. 96
    Proud Liberal says:

    TZ… I’m just stating my opinion, if you don’t like it I don’t quite give a shit. What bothered me TZ was that from the very beginning of this scandal you attacked the Dems and not the Republicans. The dems were making too much of this. The Dems were getting in the gutter. The Dems are too gleeful about this, etc. etc etc. How REPUBLICAN of YOU. You know what you sound like, you sound like one of those Fox liberals that always agree that the Dems are too angry or too extreme.

    I never said you were a member of NAMBLA, I had asked, if you agreed with their philosophy after you said this:

    As for the wider “scandal,” I see it as having legs only if there are laws being broken and the crime is covered up. If it is just man on man action being covered up, frankly, I don’t give a shit, I don’t think it’s any of our business

    I know you have since taken that statement back but that was the reason I asked if you thought that adult men having sex with young boys is something that you don’t have a problem with. I thought (and still do) think it a reasonable question based on your absurd comment.

  97. 97
    Proud Liberal says:

    and of course I don’t put a lot of weight on online or cable news “polls” but it can you give you some idea if a story is resonating out there. And this one is. Big time. With libeals, conservatives, professional politicians, man on the street, mothers, evangelicals, etc. Everyone, it seems, but the lofty and high minded TZ.

  98. 98
    ThymeZone says:

    Mr. Mahoney, the Dem running against Foley until Friday, and running against Negron as of today, said this on Matthews’ show today:

    “We were winning this race before Mark Foley resigned.”

  99. 99
    DougJ says:

    PL, I think you’re taking the anti-TZ snark too far. He certainly doesn’t purport to be lofty and high minded. Insults are fine, but let’s stick to ones that are accurate.

  100. 100
    DougJ says:

    I doubt that’s true, TZ. Foley had 2.8 million bucks. That means he probably would have won.

  101. 101
    ThymeZone says:

    What bothered me TZ was that from the very beginning of this scandal you attacked the Dems and not the Republicans. The dems were making too much of this. The Dems were getting in the gutter.

    What a numbskull. I’m a Dem, probably before you were born. If I see Dems fucking up, I am going to say “That Dem is fucking up.” I would expect any good Dem to do the same for me.

    If you want a party where everybody nods and says the same crap, join the GOP.

  102. 102
    ThymeZone says:

    He certainly doesn’t purport to be lofty and high minded

    I am white trash, all the way, and proud of it.

  103. 103
    ThymeZone says:

    “In every one of the states we looked at, Iraq was the number one issue driving this election.”

    Steven Thomma, McClatchy Newspapers.

    Matthews, today.

  104. 104
    Richard 23 says:

    Nobody could have anticipated a breach of the Levi’s.

    ::ducks::

  105. 105
    Proud Liberal says:

    Republican congresswoman who oversees the Page program “gets it”:

    Rep. Shelley Moore Capito, R-W.Va., says she was not told about suggestive e-mails that a Florida congressman sent to a 16-year-old former Capitol page, even though she is one of three representatives who oversee the page program. […]

    Several high-ranking House Republicans have known about the e-mails for months, including Rep. John Shimkus, R-Ill., chairman of the House Page Board.

    Late last year, Shimkus met with Foley about the e-mails. But Shimkus never told Capito or the board’s other member, Rep. Dale Kildee, D-Mich., about them until Friday, according to all three.

    “There’s only three of us on the page board. I feel that we should have been informed,” Capito said. “I’m absolutely disgusted by what I’m hearing. I was caught totally unaware.” […]

    Capito said she would have been very concerned if she had read those e-mails.

    “I don’t think it would pass the sniff test,” she said. “Even asking those questions — that is not normal between a 52-year-old adult and a 16-year-old. It’s not like they’re family friends or anything. I think it would raise some serious questions. But I wasn’t given that opportunity.”

    Late last year, Shimkus and former House Clerk Jeff Tandahl met privately with Foley to talk about the e-mails, but did not tell the other House Page Board members or launch an investigation.

    Coverup

  106. 106
    ThymeZone says:

    Oh, and Thomma’s point that got him on the show?

    The Dems are poised to take BOTH HOUSES of Congress.

  107. 107
    Steve says:

    Mr. Mahoney, the Dem running against Foley until Friday, and running against Negron as of today, said this on Matthews’ show today:

    “We were winning this race before Mark Foley resigned.”

    Well, everybody always claims to be winning. The fact is that in the lists of competitive House races, this one consistently clocked in at around 50th. Not impossible, but certainly not a prime takeover opportunity.

    If you’re the Dem in this district, obviously you’re not going to say “wow, this was totally a gift.” You’re going to say “it makes no difference, the people in this district agree with our message, yadda yadda.” But that doesn’t make it true.

  108. 108
    Proud Liberal says:

    What a numbskull. I’m a Dem, probably before you were born. If I see Dems fucking up, I am going to say “That Dem is fucking up.”

    and at a time when we have by anybody’s standards a huge GOP scandal unfolding, you only see Dems fucking up? Like I said, you could get a job tomorrow on Fox News. Great diversion. Lets not talk about the GOP scandal lets talk how the Dems are mishandling it, overreacting to it, being happy over it, etc.

    Yeah TZ I know you have been a dem for a long time. You said you shook the hand of Eleanor Roosevelt. Seeing that she died over 40 years ago, I would have to imagine that you have been a dem for a long long time. Perhaps that is the problem. Times have changed TZ. And not for the better. I wish it were not so, but it is. The GOP doesn’t play by the same rules as they did 40 years ago. And you still want us to. Sorry not going to happen with this Dem (btw, I’ve been an active member of the Democratic party for over 35 years so I don’t take a back seat to anyone on that score)

  109. 109
    DougJ says:

    I like the breach of Levis joke.

    The thing is, though, the warnings only said that the Levis would overtopped.

  110. 110
    Proud Liberal says:

    oh, TZ is impressed because a candidate said he was going to win his race? Can you please show me where a candidate says that he thinks he is going to lose the race? lol.. and you call me naive?

  111. 111
    DougJ says:

    Come on, take it down a notch, Proud Liberal.

  112. 112
    ThymeZone says:

    If you’re the Dem in this district

    We take away different things.

    I saw a confident Dem who was not eager to put his arms around a sex scandal, who wanted to stay focussed on the issues, which he counted off for us.

    A guy who sounded like …. me. A real candidate, not some guy on some blog.

  113. 113
    tBone says:

    I take it back, TZ.
    Me too.

    I’m glad you guys made up. I thought I was going to have to suggest that you strip down and get relaxed.

  114. 114
    ThymeZone says:

    And you still want us to.

    Heh. I want us to not act like a bunch of damned fools.

    Ergo, our disagreement.

  115. 115
    tBone says:

    I had in mind that you were responding to more moderate approaches to it and I felt like you were just jumping on everything anyone said about it.

    Me too. The difference being, I’m too lazy to go back and read the whole thread.

  116. 116
    ThymeZone says:

    I thought I was going to have to suggest that you strip down and get relaxed.

    Absolutely terrible.

    But Jesus … it’s funny. I spit my fried rice all the way to the wall unit.

  117. 117
    Proud Liberal says:

    Even conservatives “get it”

    Conservative activists have come out strongly as well against those who knew about the emails early on. David Bossie, president of Citizens United, a conservative advocacy group, told the right-wing magazine Human Events, “Speaker Hastert had knowledge of Congressman Foley’s inappropriate behavior and chose to protect a potential pedophile and powerful colleague over a congressional page.”

    He went on: “This inaction demonstrates a lack of leadership on Speaker Hastert’s part, and calls into question both his judgment and character. If Speaker Hastert was willing to sacrifice a child to protect Rep. Foley’s seat and his own leadership position, then he surely does not share our American and conservative values… Speaker Hastert’s calls for an investigation are too late; he has already failed in his duty to investigate and prosecute this matter before it became a public relations problem. This lack of leadership is not only morally repugnant, but it may cost Republicans the House in November. Mr. Hastert should resign immediately.”

    His thoughts were echoed by colleague Michael Reagan, radio host and adopted son of President Ronald Reagan, who cited his own victimization at the hands of a child predator when calling for Republican resignations: “Any member of Congress who was aware of the sexual emails and protected the congressman should also resign effective immediately. I was sexually abused by a day camp counselor at age eight and also made to be part of child pornography.”

    ya think this might depress the turnout of “values” voters? hmmm?

  118. 118
    ThymeZone says:

    You said you shook the hand of Eleanor Roosevelt. Seeing that she died over 40 years ago, I would have to imagine that you have been a dem for a long long time

    Okay, she was dead at the time. I could get in a lot of trouble for it.

    No seriously, I was at the 1960 Democratic Convention, and I literally ran into her coming out of the rest room. I was stunned. I looked at her and said, “You’re Mrs. Roosevelt!” She laughed and said “Yes I am!”, shook my hand, and dashed off.

  119. 119
    Steve says:

    I saw a confident Dem who was not eager to put his arms around a sex scandal, who wanted to stay focussed on the issues, which he counted off for us.

    I get what you’re saying, but it seems to me you’re underthinking this.

    Of all the Dems in the country, the guy who least needs to pin a rap on the Republican leadership is Foley’s actual opponent. He’s already been handed everything he needs. He’s right there, in Foley’s district, where Foley’s name is still going to be on the ballot. He doesn’t need to make any more hay out of it than that.

    Other candidates, outside the district, of course need to make individual judgment calls. But if they want to make something of the scandal, they can’t make it just about Foley himself, they need to make it about the leadership who shielded him. That’s a road Foley’s opponent doesn’t need to go down.

  120. 120
    Proud Liberal says:

    Ok.. I’m done with TZ. We can agree to disagree and I do know we both want the same thing in the end but disagree on tactics. I strongly believe that we have to learn how to play this game as well as the GOP plays. If we don’t, we wont’ win and if we don’t win we can’t make the changes necessary to get this country back on course.

    And part of what we have to do is be merciless when we detect a vulnerability in our opposition. We have to exploit it for all it is worth. We should never lie or misrepresent facts, in that way we will be different from the GOP, but we should hammer them on stuff like this. They say we “coddle” terrorists but we can’t say they’re protecting a pedophile? sorry, I don’t turn the cheek anymore and I don’t plan to.

  121. 121
    ThymeZone says:

    it seems to me you’re underthinking this.

    I know. Brilliance looks like underthinking. I can’t help it. It’s a burden I live with every day.

    That’s a road Foley’s opponent doesn’t need to go down.

    Too bad we can never prove it, but I’d bet money that the Dems win at least one, if not two, houses without a Foley scandal at all.

  122. 122
    ThymeZone says:

    I strongly believe that we have to learn how to play this game as well as the GOP plays.

    I agree, but there’s no time for that between now and Nov. 7, man. Let’s win the House and then plan our next victory.

  123. 123
    tBone says:

    Absolutely terrible.

    But Jesus … it’s funny. I spit my fried rice all the way to the wall unit.

    I live to serve.

    But enough about that. What are you wearing?

  124. 124
    t. jasper parnell says:

    Again, this scandal represents the whole of the curent administration’s method of governance and if properly presented will expose them for what they are. It the Democratic Party stands and points and says SEX SEX SEX things go nowhere, if they suse this as evidence as an example of what business as usual is among this gang of thieves, then the Foley incident cannot but help to further undermine the confidence of the American people in the administration. The sole means open to the Republicans to counter this narrative would be (as they are inching toward) a kind of all politicians are scum message. Try getting elected on that in time of war.

  125. 125
    Steve says:

    Too bad we can never prove it, but I’d bet money that the Dems win at least one, if not two, houses without a Foley scandal at all.

    Sure, me too. However, you can always improve your chances, and you can always win more seats.

    Fact is, I still think a non-Foley win would have been more about GOP incompetence than the magical power of Democratic ideas or anything like that. So I don’t really care how we win, I just want to maximize it.

    Movement conservatives are going apeshit over this. Michael Reagan has apparently called for Hastert’s resignation. I just don’t want to adopt the same old Democratic stance, like on Harriet Miers, like on the torture bill, etc., etc., where Dems sit back and say “isn’t it awesome to watch them fight amongst themselves?” You miss opportunity after opportunity thinking like that.

  126. 126
    ThymeZone says:

    Woodward: Pres. Bush says “I don’t keep company with people who talk about no WMDs in Iraq. I don’t talk about that. That would mean our policy was wrong.”

    Woodward: Kissinger advises Bush that “winning is the only viable exit strategy” in Iraq.

    This stuff is gold. If we can avert our eyes from Mark Foley’s penetration strategy for a moment …. we have gold right in our lap.

  127. 127
    Proud Liberal says:

    Let’s win the House and then plan our next victory.

    I plan to. And.. I do agree we were heading in the right direction. A recent poll in ten close senate races has the Dems ahead or even in all ten. NOT IN ONE Senate race did the Republicans have a lead. I agree, we were making progress, but there is nothing in the Foley scandal that will “hurt” the Dems in my opinion. The malfeasance of the GOP house leadership will be the story, not the Dems reaction to it. What parent is going to be upset with the Dems being upset about Foley hitting on kids? Really don’t see the downside at all.

  128. 128
    ThymeZone says:

    What are you wearing?

    Just a little crown of thorns.

    And a thong.

  129. 129
    ThymeZone says:

    we have gold right in our lap.

    Just to clarify, that’s a figure of speech.

  130. 130
    ThymeZone says:

    don’t want to adopt the same old Democratic stance, like on Harriet Miers

    This is a lot better than Harriette Miers. This would be like finding out that Bush sent nasty IMs to Harriette Miers.

  131. 131
    Proud Liberal says:

    Ok… I said I wasn’t going to respond to TZ. I lied. Sorry, can’t help it. I need a seven step program to ignore him but I just have to comment on this:

    Woodward: Kissinger advises Bush that “winning is the only viable exit strategy” in Iraq.

    This stuff is gold. If we can avert our eyes from Mark Foley’s penetration strategy for a moment …. we have gold right in our lap.

    .Please, give me a break. You think that Bush adopting a policy of “winning is the only viable exit strategy” is gold? You don’t have a clue as to how the electorate makes decision. After all that has come out about the Bush administration do you really think the fact that Bush is talking to Kissinger about winning in Iraq is a smoking gun? I bet that 75% of those eligible to vote could not even tell you who Kissinger was and what role he played in government.

  132. 132
    ThymeZone says:

    Really don’t see the downside at all.

    I hope you are right. I would rather be wrong and win the House, than right and lose the House.

    The House is the grail.

  133. 133
    Krista says:

    Just a little crown of thorns.

    And a thong.

    Just don’t ask him which head the crown of thorns is on.

  134. 134
    Krista says:

    The House is the grail

    The grail? Ah yes, we have one of those…it’s quite nice.

  135. 135
    ThymeZone says:

    You think that Bush adopting a policy of “winning is the only viable exit strategy” is gold

    Yes I do. I think the people are way out in front of the lunatic Bush on this.

  136. 136
    Steve says:

    This stuff is gold. If we can avert our eyes from Mark Foley’s penetration strategy for a moment …. we have gold right in our lap.

    Right. Instead of running with unproven allegations that Hastert knew about Foley, we should run with quotes from Bob Woodward’s book! Heh.

    In all seriousness, I think Iraq is clearly the #1 voting issue out there, but if I can sum up the mindset of most people who are reachable on this issue, it’s like “Omigod, Iraq is such a mess, when are we going to get the heck out of there?!” Although blog readers like me eat this Woodward stuff up, I really think the public’s appetite has been exhausted when it comes to even more evidence that Bush lied, the intelligence was doctored, there was no plan for the insurgency, etc.

    As far as undecided voters, I think the way to win them is by showing that the Dems will bring new leadership on Iraq, will force the administration to change course and implement a better plan, and so forth. I think bringing up the history just plays into a “we’ve heard it all before” mentality and doesn’t really excite anyone new.

    As far as rallying the base, I think the way you do that is by showing that you’ll hold the Republicans accountable. People in this category really don’t need to be reminded that Bush is bad, or shown new evidence from Bob Woodward, they just want to hear that you’re going to do something to derail the Bush/Cheney agenda if you get in.

    So that’s my take. In all seriousness, although I started this post on a light note, it really does seem to me that jumping all over Woodward’s allegations is problematic for many of the same reasons that you think jumping all over the Foley story is problematic.

  137. 137
    ThymeZone says:

    I need a seven step program

    The first step is admitting that you have a problem ;^ |

  138. 138
    Krista says:

    Nobody could have anticipated a breach of the Levi’s

    Punchy beat you to it on the Scandalpalooza thread, my friend.

  139. 139
    Steve says:

    I bet that 75% of those eligible to vote could not even tell you who Kissinger was and what role he played in government.

    A few years back, I was dining out at this famous steakhouse in New York, the kind of place where you have to “know someone” to get in. I don’t know anyone, but my client in this case did. Even so, we had to wait like a half hour before they found a table for us.

    While we were waiting, this big party shows up, with some dumpy old man at the helm, and they get shown right to their table. “Who does that guy think he is?” muttered my boss. He had a twinkle in his eye that suggested he was making a joke, so I asked who it was. He was positively shocked that I hadn’t recognized Henry Kissinger.

    Of course, at least I knew who Kissinger was, which gives me a leg up on my wife (who is a few years younger). I do think the sort of people who used to hobnob with Eleanor Roosevelt could probably be fired up by hearing that Bush is getting advice from Kissinger, although most people who think of Kissinger as the embodiment of evil were probably pulling the lever for the Dems already.

  140. 140
    ThymeZone says:

    People in this category really don’t need to be reminded that Bush is bad, or shown new evidence from Bob Woodward, they just want to hear that you’re going to do something to derail the Bush/Cheney agenda if you get in.

    My assessment has more to do with the idea that voters are ready to vote against Bush, than with Woodward. They want to vote against Bush.

    Here’s an anecdotal example fer ya: Arizona, Senate race, Kyl v. Pederson.

    Kyl is the Republican incumbent. Until a year ago, unbeatable under any circumstances. Now, the seat is considered “in play” (Pederson is a long shot, but he has a shot). Pederson has been hammering Kyl on being a Bush rubber stamp.

    Kyl is now running an ad in which he points out — with his own face and voice, not an announcer — votes he made against Bush bills, particularly on energy. “I’m not a rubber stamp.”

    When a rubber stamp, coattail guy like Kyl comes out and says “I’m not a rubber stamp and my opponent is a meanie for saying such a thing” you know that Pederson is drawing blood. And you know that running against Bush is working.

  141. 141
    ThymeZone says:

    which gives me a leg up on my wife

    { thud }

  142. 142
    Proud Liberal says:

    The first step is admitting that you have a problem

    Ok, I acknowledge that you have a problem. What do I do next?

  143. 143
    Steve says:

    Another point is that the GOP always seems to close well in election season, and they even adjourned Congress a week early to let everyone go home and campaign. The effect of this issue dominating the news cycle, if nothing else, may simply be to preserve the Democratic lead against pushback from Republicans who were hoping to talk lots and lots about how Democrats heart terrorists.

    So if nothing else, it probably benefits Democrats to do what they can to help keep this scandal in the headlines.

  144. 144
    ThymeZone says:

    What do I do next?

    Send me your credit card numbers and expiration dates.

    I will take care of everything.

  145. 145
    Proud Liberal says:

    Bush’s cherry picking of intelligence has been discussed ad nauseum for months. His crediblity of lack thereof likewise. The failure of Iraq apparent for quite some time. People positions on these issues have had a long time to solidify. Can we peel off a few more former Bush supporters by talking about Woodward’s book? Sure. But I think the mother load is the Foley scandal. Why? well it goes directly to Bush’s base. Did you hear Bey Buchannan on the Situation room today? she was outraged. I do believe that enough right wing values voters will sit this election out as a result of this sad event. They may not vote for the Dems but if they sit out that is almost as good.

    Don’t watch what the liberals are saying about this, listen to what the conservatives are saying. And a lot of them are saying pretty harsh things about the house republican leadership. This is good for Dems. This is VERY GOOD for Dems.

  146. 146
    tBone says:

    Just don’t ask him which head the crown of thorns is on.

    It would explain the crankiness, though . . .

  147. 147
    Proud Liberal says:

    The coverup continued:

    It’s confirmed. Congressman Tom Reynolds’ (R-NY) chief of staff, Kirk Fordham, tried to broker a secret deal last Friday to get ABC News to cover up the worst part of the Foley child predator scandal, the lurid five-plus-page instant message chat in which Foley asked a child to measure his penis and then led the child into a detailed discussion of masturbatory techniques.

  148. 148
    Perry Como says:

    He was positively shocked that I hadn’t recognized Henry Kissinger.

    I’ve always thought he was easy to spot. Just look for the guy with the pool of blood and pile of bones surrounding him.

  149. 149
    Proud Liberal says:

    Is the Republican party imploding? Glenn Greenwald seems to think so:

    And then there is the outburst today from numerous right-wing bloggers vowing that they will not vote for the Republicans in November, with some even committing to vote for Democrats*, because Republicans have abandoned all of the “principles” that got them so excited in the first place. The straw that broke the Bush followers’ back today is this truly bizarre statement from Bill Frist that the U.S. military is incapable of defeating the Taliban in Afghanistan and should therefore invite the Taliban to join the government we are over there defending (though Frist is now trying, not too successfully, to retract the comments, claiming that they were taken out of context).

    For the most insightful comment on all of this, I think it is necessary to return to Joe Scarborough’s commentary, who referred to the GOP as “Mark Foley’s party.” Five weeks before the election, the Republicans have indeed become the party of Mark Foley and it is a party whose leaders protected and defended Foley and, even now, seek to minimize his conduct. Whether justified or not, there has to be some degree of discomfort — and even shame — with associating oneself with that brand. Every time the Republican Party is mentioned, it evokes images of Mark Foley’s IMs and the party leaders who concealed his activities. That can’t be very good for energizing the base, and it is clearly fueling serious fissures at the worst possible time (for them).

  150. 150
    ThymeZone says:

    It’s confirmed. Congressman Tom Reynolds’ (R-NY) chief of staff, Kirk Fordham

    I would have to say Reynolds is toast. A staffer would not do that without the Congressman’s knowledge and authority.

  151. 151
    ThymeZone says:

    For the most insightful comment on all of this, I think it is necessary to return to Joe Scarborough’s commentary, who referred to the GOP as “Mark Foley’s party.” Five weeks before the election, the Republicans have indeed become the party of Mark Foley and it is a party whose leaders protected and defended Foley and, even now, seek to minimize his conduct. Whether justified or not, there has to be some degree of discomfort—and even shame—with associating oneself with that brand. Every time the Republican Party is mentioned, it evokes images of Mark Foley’s IMs and the party leaders who concealed his activities. That can’t be very good for energizing the base, and it is clearly fueling serious fissures at the worst possible time (for them).

    Good for Scarborough. I never liked him much, but he has been using his power for good and not evil lately.

  152. 152
    Proud Liberal says:

    The Washington Times will call for Hastert’s resignation in tomorrow’s editorial according to Drudge.

  153. 153
    mjb says:

    Maybe if Foley had been hitting on a fetus, these folks would get it.

    Made me laugh, thanks!

  154. 154
    terry chay says:

    Keep one eye on IEM I suspect that the impact of this will be felt a lot.

    As John Cole points out, it resonates and the details do not matter.

  155. 155

    The words that will live in infamy: “don’t forget to measure”.
    These words cannot be spun or misinterpreted. There they are, in all their salacious lip-smacking bug-eyed sweaty-browed smarminess. No parent can read these words and not shudder.

  156. 156
    terry chay says:

    I mentioned the above because the CW here (and elsewhere) seems to be that the Republicans were going to lose the House but not the Senate. But the people gambling with their dollars didn’t feel this way at all.

    Until this scandal hit, the Republicans were likely to lose seats but retain hold of both. Today the markets are shifting. Tomorrow?

  157. 157
    Matthew says:

    Let’s see, possible NAMES for this SCANDAL:

    POWER-pedophile-GATE

    REPUB-BOY-TOY-GATE

    IM-HORNY-GATE

    SICK-O-GATE

    NARCISS-0-GATE

    now it’s time to put out the garbage before it rains.
    ciao!

  158. 158
    Bob says:

    Ken Mehlman’s gay, too, isn’t he?

  159. 159
    r€nato says:

    We need to get a firm, sweaty grasp on a good scandal name here. “Foleygate” is bland and uninspired.

    Masturgate.

  160. 160
    Joe Riehl says:

    Predatorgate.

  161. 161
    Pb says:

    PreadatorGate is good. I was thinking maybe ‘TeenagePageGate’.

  162. 162
    Pb says:

    Congratulations, John–Glenn Greenwald‘s excellent post on this topic just recommended your excellent post on this topic!

    UPDATE V: John Cole has a truly superb post on the Foley matter and the unfolding Republican demise. Nitpick if you wish with some of the words he uses, but he really does capture the essential truth of this whole matter.

  163. 163
    carpeicthus says:

    TZ, your central premise is deeply flawed. There is no “rope-a-dope” on this issue. Dancing around avoids a *conclusion*. That keeps people talking about it. Do you really think it’s a win if people keep talking about this for weeks and the story morphs to continued stalling? All this has to do is stay in the air. It’s like trying to rope-a-dope oxygen.

  164. 164

    Soliciting gay underage sex and the leadership not investigating the charges and treating it just as a political issue that might affect campaigns for relection…

    This resonates with voters and on top of all the other stuff this looks like a change election. They will want all the other stuff liberals have been throwing out there looked at as well. Hubris.

    Jailbate?

  165. 165
    Moses says:

    scarshapedstar wrote:

    Please, John. Wait ‘till all the facts are in.

    ROTFLMAO. We have enough facts to make an informed judgment. Crime. Cover-up. The GOP doing ANYTHING to keep power, no matter how repugnant.

  166. 166
    t. jasper parnell says:

    So, will this scandal play in Peoria?

    “We need to admit that this was done on our watch,” Mr. LaHood said. He added that when he arrived home after Congress adjourned early Saturday, the page program was what constituents asked about.

    “The first three questions I was asked when I arrived in Peoria,” he said, “were not about immigration, the war or taxes. It was, ‘What are you going to do about the page program?’ ”

  167. 167
    Lee says:

    I know the thread has long gone past this question but I thought it was important:

    In the course of their work, do they work for only members of “their” party?

    I had to call a good friend of mine that worked at the Heritage Foundation back in the late 80’s. She knew some of the pages back then.

    In the late 80’s pages were assigned by party.

    Old data, but still some data.

  168. 168
    Ed says:

    Ignoring all the red flags pre-9/11 and Iraq incompetence and pork-barrel spending with raging deficits, inaction on Immigration and the Katrina response and Abramoff/K-Street and now being more concerned about protecting a Republican majority than protecting a minor.

    Had enough?

  169. 169
    Fred says:

    I would like to think that the American public will “get it” on this particular incident. Unfortunately, when it comes to the truth, the American public’s record of performance is hardly better than the Republican party.

    All due respect, I think I’ll hold off on that election celebration for now.

    Perhaps it’s a good time to remind ourselves that while these people are running screaming from Mark Foley they are still comfortably in bed with Diebold. And on that regard we already know that the American public is too cowardly to stand up against electoral fraud.

    People who make torture legal would have no qualms or hesitation in hijacking an American election.

    Foley, or not, this game is far from over, and far from reaching the full extent of its depths.

  170. 170
    ThymeZone says:

    TZ, your central premise is deeply flawed. There is no “rope-a-dope” on this issue. Dancing around avoids a conclusion

    That’s an alternative view. AS it turns out, the whole question appears moot WRT to my rant.

    It appears that the story is advancing pretty much without Dem involvement at all. The Republicans are the ones really trying to move out Hastert at this point. This surprises me, but there it is.

    Dems really don’t have to do anything here but get out the popcorn and watch, as somebody said yesterday.

    AT this point I have no idea what the GOP is going to do next, they seem to be unraveling on this.

    If the story moves and Dems don’t have to do anything, that works for our side AFAIC.

  171. 171

    […] From Republican blogger John Cole, on the attempts of other pro-Bush bloggers to ignore/downplay/divert attention from the metastasizing Mark Foley scandal: Maybe if Foley had been hitting on a fetus, these folks would get it. […]

  172. 172
    Proud Liberal says:

    Well, its good to see that TZ has seen the light. And to show that I can agree with some of his points, let me echo his hope that the Dems don’t overplay this. Like TZ said, the story is advancing without Dem involvement. Let the media be the ones banging away. ABC is supposedly ready to do a report saying who know what and when.

    One caveat however. ABC also says they have IM’s going back as far as 5 years and some from other congressmen as well. It is not inconceivable that there might be a Dem or two involved. So the Dems should keep the focus on what the house leadership did or did not do to protect pages rather than Foley.

    Like most scandals, I think there will be a few twists and surprises along the way, but I can’t imagine anything that will change this from being very bad news for the GOP if only to depress the christian “values” voters. Lots of squawking going on in that corner. But hey, lets not forget that one talent the Dems have is to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

  173. 173
    Charles says:

    Speaking as a member of the Opposition to the GOP, the explosion of arrogance and self-indulgence was predictable. The reckoning has been a long time coming. The punishment will probably not be strong enough to cleanse the Republican Party. The question is whether the Republic as we knew it will stand when all this is done.

    The media have ceased to perform their role. Consider that it took the press five years to shake out the news that Condoleeza Rice perjured herself to the 9/11 Commission on a matter of national importance. Had a dogged, well-funded Special Prosecutor been assigned to the task of learning why the Administration failed to protect the nation, what else do you think he would have found?

    And please, don’t answer me with attacks on Clinton: it has been through such dodges that the Republican Party has become so corrupt. Look at Bill Frist wriggle away from his words. Does anyone really believe he was misquoted? No more than anyone believes that Denny Hastert doesn’t remember having been told that Foley was soliciting pages.

    In another age, this might be called realipolitik, a recognition that Islamists are a major part of the population in places like Afghanistan. But the Republican Party, desperate to escape responsibility, cannot in any manner admit defeat, and has therefore brought the entire American Army to the breaking point, the point where enlistment standards drop, where men are conscripted into extended service, and eventually where discipline starts to break down.

    I won’t defend the Democratic Party. Most of them have stood down from performing the role of the Opposition. A few have been staunch. But the Republican leaders… can anyone look at them without a sense of shame that these people call themselves Americans?

  174. 174
    scarshapedstar says:

    The words that will live in infamy: “don’t forget to measure”.
    These words cannot be spun or misinterpreted. There they are, in all their salacious lip-smacking bug-eyed sweaty-browed smarminess. No parent can read these words and not shudder.

    Nonsense. Let’s all take a cue from ThymeZone and surrender. Now. Resistance is futile. Repblicans are going to go on the talk shows and spin things their way and try the average American voter gets all their news from Inside The Beltway. We’ve already lost. Shit, our party is finished. Foley was the ultimate poison pill. Give up now.

  175. 175
    scarshapedstar says:

    TZ, don’t give in to hope! The Republicans won this scandal before it ever began. Shit, this was Rove’s most brilliant poison pill to date. No matter how much we Democrats try to hide in the shadows, we’re going to get stuck with this tar baby. We must simply give up and surrender. Hell, our best option at this point is to have every Democrat in Congress resign in shame.

    All hopes for the Democratic party’s future died when Masturgate began. Kneel before Zod. Resistance is futile.

  176. 176
    scarshapedstar says:

    I seem to have a bad habit.

  177. 177
    MB says:

    Mastur-gate

  178. 178
    A Hermit says:

    MB Says:

    Mastur-gate

    We have a winner, I think!

    ——

    I’ve been saying for a long time that the Republicans won’t be in trouble until there’s a juicy sex scandal to hit them with. Lobbyists and corruption and greed? Too complicated. Lying about Iraq/bungled war on terror? No one wants to admit they were stupid enough to get fooled.

    But a good sex scandal gives people a focus for all the other misgivings they may not have been willing to face up too. Doesn’t mean you stop harping on those other things; keep pointing out the incompetence, the dishonesty, the graft, but be grateful to have something like this to crystallize people’s doubts about the Republicans and don’t be afraid to use it.

  179. 179
    Tony says:

    Punchy Says:

    We need to get a firm, sweaty grasp on a good scandal name here. “Foleygate” is bland and uninspired. DougJ hit a ground rule double with:

    Operation Enduring Pedophile

    Not knowing we could go outside the “gate”, I now propose a few more, to be either voted on by BJers (pun intended, I guess), or deleted by a disgusted Sir Cole:

    We could go meta—Friend, or Foley?
    We could go Bob Seger—Turn the Page (hell, “Like a Rock” works, too)
    We could try Navy—Jump Onboard, and enjoy the Seamen!
    We could go word manipulation—Congressio-anal page
    We could go academic—Foley’s School: BYU…Bang ‘em Young Uni.
    We could go stupid—Washington D(i)C(k)

    Carry it away. I’ve queered the thread, so I apologize, but we really do need to hammer down a good moniker

    How about, “No Page left behind”
    or Jon Stewart’s “Foley Erected”.

  180. 180
    big dave from queens says:

    Republicans in Congress tried to cover up for Foley.

    Emphasize the coverup. Also, point out how child abuse is almost exclusively a conservative behavior. http://www.armchairsubversive.com

  181. 181
    Aqualung says:

    Mandatesboygate?

  182. 182
    MW says:

    Representatives John Shimkus, Tom Reynolds, Rodney Alexander, Roy Blunt, John Boehner and Dennis Hastert must resign immediately!

    Yours,
    MW

  183. 183
    grandpa john says:

    I followed the link to the red state site, they have to be the biggest collection of moral degenerates I have found.

  184. 184
    Mike says:

    I don’t know how to do the blockquotes but:

    [Proud Liberal]
    and of course I don’t put a lot of weight on online or cable news “polls” but it can you give you some idea if a story is resonating out there. And this one is. Big time. With libeals, conservatives, professional politicians, man on the street, mothers, evangelicals, etc. Everyone, it seems, but the lofty and high minded TZ.

    Proud Liberal, does Diebold “get it”?

  185. 185
    Slaw says:

    He was positively shocked that I hadn’t recognized Henry Kissinger.

    I’ve always thought he was easy to spot. Just look for the guy with the pool of blood and pile of bones surrounding him.

    Really? When I see that dude, I still won’t know if it’s Kissinger, Cheney, Rumsfeld, or Child-eater John Engler (those from Michigan know exactly what I’m talking about).

  186. 186
    Stephennnn says:

    LOL….Defender’s of the Republican House of Rogues ask that we wait for all of the facts are in before we cast judgements. Hell, I heard that same theme from my Repugnant friends after the invasion of Iraq….”Just wait, we will find those WMDs”

    LOL

  187. 187
    Archtype says:

    As much as I would like for this to adversely effect the Republicans, you just know it won’t make a dent. Hell, Bill O’reilly already took care of his admirers by showing the banner under Foley that read “House Republican D-FL”

    All that is required is tell the idiot public that it was a Dem, not a Republican. Believe me, the idiot public will swallow something that cheap. Somehow, this will end up helping Republicans, not hurting them. Its been happening for that way for many years. Every new scandal involving Republicans gets forgotten within a couple of days. And this will prove no different.

  188. 188
    Janus Daniels says:

    I have got to stop drinking at my PC.
    “Maybe if Foley had been hitting on a fetus, these folks would get it.” Thanks John, for a fine conflation of outrage, invective, and wit. Then, the first post, “Please, John. Wait ‘till all the facts are in.”
    I don’t believe anyone can follow that up, but I now expect the best thread ever.

  189. 189
    Major Dick says:

    I like the new motto of the Republikklans…

    “The party that wants to bugger your kids!”

    They may as well, they’ve already buggered the rest of US & the whole world too.

  190. 190
    Freedom Fighter says:

    You talk about Republicans blaming ABC for their troubles. The next thing you know, they will be hiring the ACLU to clear them, because they will blame profiling! “The liberal media only came after me because I was an evangelical Republican. I was very discreet in my child buggering and meth buying”.

    Here’s hoping the Republicans GO DOWN in a few days.

    “Go Down” by losing in the election
    “Go Down” straight to you know where for violating the very values they claim to support
    Just don’t try to “Go Down” on my teenage son!

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] From Republican blogger John Cole, on the attempts of other pro-Bush bloggers to ignore/downplay/divert attention from the metastasizing Mark Foley scandal: Maybe if Foley had been hitting on a fetus, these folks would get it. […]

  2. […] Also — Balloon Juice has some wonderful posts up about this incredible political explosion.  This is my favorite. […]

Comments are closed.