Hok a Chainik

The blogosphere is abuzz about the revelations that Sen. George Allen has Jewish ancestry, represented best by the coverage at the TPM Muckracker:

One of my failings as a reporter, when I was doing that as my full time gig, was my lack of sufficient cynicism: I remember back in 2001 sitting in the home of a retired ambassador and having him lie to my face. Of course, I didn’t realize it then. I couldn’t get my head around the idea he was just straight out lying to me. (He’d artfully bamboozled me by refusing to talk on the phone or have of conversation recorded — only to insist that what I was asking about had simply never happened.) I found out a month or so later when a major paper broke the story I’d been working on with most of the same information I’d known months before. That reporter finally got the ambassador to ‘fess up.

That said, I might be willing to believe that Allen’s mother never told him her family was Jewish. I’m not silly enough to believe he didn’t know. I’ve learned a few lessons.

Who cares?

Whether he is Jewish, or whether he may have not stated he was Jewish is all water under the bridge. None of that changes that he has some pretty sketchy associations with clearly racist folks, none of that changes that he is beholden to the Chrisianist religious right and parrots their rhetoric comfortably and openly, and none of that changes the fact that he is wrong on torture, wrong on virtually every issue, and shouldn’t be the next President, much less a Senator.

So let’s please keep that in mind and stop the crazy talk.






66 replies
  1. 1
    Doctor Gonzo says:

    Who cares? George Felix Allen cares, that’s who. For some reason that I can’t fathom, he is embarassed about having a Jewish mother. That’s why he said that a question on the subject impugned on the character of his mother. That’s why he has gone to such great lengths to say he is 100% Christian, even saying that he just “ate a ham sandwich.” WTF???

    A normal person would say, “Yes, my mother’s Jewish, I’m not, next question.” There is nothing wrong with having a Jewish mother, or at least there shouldn’t be anything wrong with it. So why is Allen acting like such a kook when it comes to this issue?

  2. 2
    Pb says:

    Actually I think the real story here has less to do with his ancestry and more to do with his reaction to the question.

  3. 3
    Blue Neponset says:

    The story isn’t about him being Jewish the story is about Allen acting ashamed of being Jewish. Is that important news? No, but when did elections become about important shit & stuff?

  4. 4
    snorkel says:

    I find it interesting that Allen’s perception is clearly that being Jewish will hurt him with the “Christianist Religious Right” – they who are supposedly such ardent supporters of the State of Israel.

    By the way, I think you mean “Hok mir nisht kein chainik” – literally,”don’t bang me a teakettle” – better paraphrased as “stop already with the random, annoying noise!”

  5. 5
    Punchy says:

    Who cares?

    You’re kidding, right? Who cares? Only most of his redneck, God-fearing, fag-hating, Conferderate-supporting, racist, rabidly anti-semetic, NRA-supporting, moonshine-distilling voting base. That’s who.

    He can’t admit his Jewish-ness–not b/c he’s “ashamed” of it–but because he’d lose 50% of his Fuck-the-Jews voting bloc. While not gaining any new Jewish voters, GFA would be villified by the ‘necks in western Virginia.

    It’s all about politics to these Republicants.

  6. 6
    Andrew says:

    I think we need to check Allen’s combover for Jew horns. Just to be sure.

  7. 7
    EL says:

    The “ham sandwich” bit was frankly wierd. My parents were Jewish. I’m Jewish. And guess what? Bacon, ham and pork chops were still served. Using that to “prove” his Christianity just shows how ignorant he is about Jews. It’s like using something that Episcopalians don’t do to prove someone not a Christian.

  8. 8
    ats says:

    It all related to the Maccaca comment. That is a slur very specific to the area from which his Jewish mother came (hence his desire to obscure her ancestry). Among her people, Maccaca would have been used like a worse version of “Schwarze” in Yiddish. NOT merely meaning black.

    One cannot finesse away the long odds of Allen just making up expression that accidentally corresponds to a blood libel in his mother’s homeland. Morever, Allen is well known to be a “loomer,” a tall bully in the great tradition of Strom Thurmond. Intimidating minorities is what they do.

  9. 9
    minute says:

    Agreed. It’s alot of background noise. The thing is, Allen seems to have shone some very unattractive traits in this race and I say let it all come out. It’s up to the good people of VA to decide if they want him to represent them in the senate. But if it stops the whackies from pushing another guy who can’t think his way out of a paper bag to be president then good.

  10. 10
    LLeo says:

    Who cares?

    Whether he is Jewish, or whether he may have not stated he was Jewish is all water under the bridge.

    George Allen is Christian because he says he is. His mother apparently is Christian because she practices it.

    George Allen’s weird behavior about this fact about his mother’s father is what is perking everyone’s interest.
    So Mr. Cole, yes the issues matter, but so does character. My best guess is that George Allen knew about his grandfather and doesn’t have any personal problem with it. However, I think George Allen thinks the voters of Virginia, more specifically many of his core voters, will not think well of a “son of a Jew” or “grandson of a Jew”.
    I think George Allen underestimates the voters of Virginia. Even deep religious right conservatives won’t have a problem with his heritage. They apparently have no problem with Torture, high deficits, personal and professional corruption. With core Republican voters you only have to talk the talk, NOT walk the walk.

  11. 11
    neil says:

    Can we at least stop hearing about how Democrats are such big fat anti-Semites now?

  12. 12
    Andrew says:

    The “ham sandwich” bit was frankly wierd.

    I, too, was raised on a combination of pulled pork, smithfield ham, and prosciutto, in Virginia of all places.

    The ham sandwich bit was more than weird; it was very “I’M REALLY NOT THAT JEWY!!!! VOTE ALLEN!”

  13. 13
    Andrew says:

    Oh yeah, what about George Allen beating his sister and brother? Seriously.

  14. 14

    First of all, I know this is utterly unintentional on your part, but may I gently point out that putting “Jew” or “Jewish” in lower caps is considered derogatory? It would be very nice if you’d correct that. Thanks.

    Secondly, I wrote at length about this here, and included video of Allen’s statement (and have also heard back from Jon Henke).

    As it happens, Jews care a lot about whether someone is or isn’t of Jewish ancestry, and we care even more when someone says that asking if someone has Jewish ancestry is an “aspersion.”

    Lastly, the Allen campaign has been subsequently blatantly lying about the entire exchange and reaction, and making ludicrous claims, such as that somehow freedom of religion is at issue, or that Allen’s mother has been attacked, or that his James Webb and his supporters are anti-Semitic, all as an attempt to distract attention from their candidates bizarre response

    Otherwise, I said what I had to say in my post, but if you haven’t seen the video of Allen’s bizarre response, I suggest you check it out.

  15. 15
    scs says:

    I think that macacca comment should finish him off. No coming back from that lapse of judgement.

  16. 16
    Mac Buckets says:

    Can we at least stop hearing about how Democrats are such big fat anti-Semites now?

    Ummm, before we stop hearing about Democratic antio-semitism, maybe Allen’s Democrat opponent should stop running a blatantly anti-Semitic campaign.

    Webb seems to be a single-issue candidate — he put out racist pamphlets against his Jewish primary opponent (whom he caricatured in a comic-book-style pamphlet with an oversized hooked nose and — un-freaking-believably — called “the anti-Christ of outsourcing”), and now his people are pressing the “Allen is a (filthy rotten) Jew!” angle.

    Politics is such a noble profession.

  17. 17
    fwiffo says:

    Josh Marshall is Jewish, IIRC. Must be one o’ dem self-hatin’ Jews.

  18. 18
    Mac Buckets says:

    and making ludicrous claims, such as that somehow freedom of religion is at issue, or that Allen’s mother has been attacked, or that his James Webb and his supporters are anti-Semitic,

    Gary, if you don’t see the anti-Semitism dripping from this Webb primary ad — well, there’s no use to continue that sentence, because you will see it.

    Oversized hook nose? Check.
    Three-piece suit with money stuffed in the pockets? Check.
    “While I count my money” reference? Check.
    “Anti-Christ” reference? Unbelievably, check.
    At least they only called Miller “Killer,” and left the “Christ-” prefix to subtext.

  19. 19
    scs says:

    Jewish grandparents are a slippery lot. I used to have a friend in college who also had a mysterious Jewish grandparent. For years we heard it was a Jewish grandfather. Then she started dating a pretty devout Jewish guy and it suddenly became her Jewish grandmother (apparently there is some Jewish law about being Jewish only if it comes down through your mother). Then after they broke up it went back to her grandfather, but on occassion, it became her grandmother when she brought it up. Apparently, she wasn’t the only one with this confusion.

  20. 20
    Punchy says:

    Gary, if you don’t see the anti-Semitism dripping from this Webb primary ad—well, there’s no use to continue that sentence, because you will see it.

    Uh…I’d say the cartoon is a pretty accurate drawing of the real Harry Miller. Suit with money? How is THAT Jewish? That’s called GREED. Anti-Christ is now anti-semetic?

    You’re trying so hard, but making such the fool of yourself. But please don’t let me stop you.

  21. 21
    capelza says:

    Uh..Mac..have you seen pictures of Harris miller? The cartoon does look like him.

    As for the three piece suit with money falling out of the pockets…that reminds me of Tom Delay and his ilk more than anyone. Or do you assume anyone wearing a 3 pc suit is Jewish?

    So when someone (rather dumbly I think) refers to George W Bush as the anti-christ they are being anti-semetic? Or do you automatically think Jewish when you hear the wod antichrist?

    Miller the Killer…sounds good to me. But then I don’t automatically assume all people with the last name Miller is Jewish, in fact none of the Millers I know are.

  22. 22
    thrillhous says:

    On Monday Allen said that as far as he knew, his mother was raised Christian. Today, the Washington Post has an interview with Allen’s mom, in which she says she told him last month that she was raised Jewish.

    Allen knowingly lied about his own momma in that debate. That’s not Virginia family values. Then again, Allen’s not from Virginia.

  23. 23
    John Cole says:

    First of all, I know this is utterly unintentional on your part, but may I gently point out that putting “Jew” or “Jewish” in lower caps is considered derogatory? It would be very nice if you’d correct that. Thanks.

    Umm. The other two times the word “Jewish” was used I captialized, and I normally always do. It was a typo, and while I normally fix typos when pointed out, I am not this time. You clearly had to know (and do) it was just that, and if you choose to let a typo offend you, you are just as nuts as the crazy ass Muslims who wanted the Pope dead last week.

  24. 24
    nichevo says:

    Re: Allen:

    First, I have no idea what exactly was up with “Macaca” or whatever. There are IIRC macaque monkeys; “caca” is a synonym for “crap;” nobody seems to say what the journalist’s name was to judge how apropos the pun was, and I am not clear on his ethnicity (presumably if Allen called Webb “macaca” it would not be a racial slur). Without recourse to racism, though, scatological insults are inappropriate for a political campaign.

    Points off for Allen. Even if he was provoked, poor taste. Difficult to judge him as eeeevil without knowing more.

    Now, re: his Judaic ancestry:

    Criticizing him for seeing “aspersions” is obtuse at best. The question was a compound one, and the second half tantamount to “when did you stop beating your wife?” I certainly see the question as hostile. It certainly doesn’t seem appropriate for a public debate, either – certainly impossible to answer quickly and simply. A nice little gotcha. To describe my own Jewish status and ancestry would certainly not fit into a soundbite, and I certainly am not ashamed of it.

    Nor do I lay off the ham, but like Primo Levi, I know I should. If he is trying to explain matters to such a notoriously unintelligent wight as this Peggy Fox, a “ham sandwich” paradigm might seem the simplest way of explaining it. (He could also have said, “Look, no horns!” but Peggy Fox, and you, probably wouldn’t get it.)

    And if the question is in any way relevant, when did Webb’s ancestors abandon their historical Catholicism? Answer: who cares?

    As for anti-Semitism in Virginia, I attended VPI for three years in a rural part of the state. While I did feel a bit of an exotic (perhaps as mnuch for being a New Yorker as for being a Jew), I didn’t note it working against me, certainly not with women, or at my fraternity (boo! hiss! right? but they let me in).

    I might not have wanted to be black, frankly, but I didn’t find being Jewish a problem. Y’all are playing out the vicious stereotypes in your own wretched heads and frankly, you should have your minds washed out with soap.

    Of course I’m sure you’re right in one sense, anti-Semites will vote for Webb, who in terms of bad taste is certainly more than competitive with “macaca.” I’ve never been called a monkey, but I have been called a Christ-killer, and may I tell you, I didn’t like it. In fact, I found it aspersive. But man, I bet Webb hated when Fox asked that question. I bet he just spit blood, huh?

  25. 25
    nichevo says:

    Go ahead, John, fix it. We won’t mind. I’ve already cleared you on that score, but then I think you should fix all your typos, and I don’t think this is an exception.

    Mac Buckets, save your breath. To quote what I believe is Christian doctrine, there are none so blind as those who will not see. Besides, all Allen would have to do is convert – to the Democratic Party – to be left alone. Look at Kerry and Albright. Judaism is just another stick to beat a wicked dog.

    Folks, I understand winning elections is more important to you than life or your immortal souls, but I hope that if the stakes were not so high – my goodness, a Senate seat! – you would be able to admit when you’re wrong.

  26. 26
    Punchy says:

    You clearly had to know (and do) it was just that, and if you choose to let a typo offend you, you are just as nuts as the crazy ass Muslims muslims who wanted the Pope pope “eggs” benedict dead last week.

    Fixed. Now Mr. Cole is an equal-opportunity offender.

    For some reason, the Hindus and Wicca are still happy with the Cole-ster. Sorry….cole-ster.

  27. 27

    Gary, if you don’t see the anti-Semitism dripping from this Webb primary ad—well, there’s no use to continue that sentence, because you will see it.

    What’s interesting is that Mac Buckets sees something wrong in this ad, but can’t bring himself to admit that Allen associating with racists is bad.

  28. 28

    BTW, whether or not George Allen is Jewish isn’t an issue. Except to the racist idiots who vote for him because they think he supports the pure European heritage platform.

    That’s why it’s in the news, and that’s why George Allen is protesting so much.

  29. 29
    ats says:

    ee cummings must have been goy.

  30. 30
    nichevo says:

    What’s interesting, The Other Steve, is that you wouldn’t know “Tu quoque” if it irrumated you.

  31. 31
    John Cole says:

    Fine. I fixed it. I also fixed George’s name, which I had spelled wrong, lest I face the wrath of a universe of folks named george.

  32. 32
    John Cole says:

    lest I face the wrath of a universe of folks named george.

    Damnit. There I go again.

  33. 33
    farmgirl says:

    nichevo says:

    First, I have no idea what exactly was up with “Macaca” or whatever. There are IIRC macaque monkeys; “caca” is a synonym for “crap;” nobody seems to say what the journalist’s name was to judge how apropos the pun was, and I am not clear on his ethnicity (presumably if Allen called Webb “macaca” it would not be a racial slur). Without recourse to racism, though, scatological insults are inappropriate for a political campaign.

    for heaven’s sake. on the slight chance that you are new to this issue, and not deliberately misrepresenting the facts, here’s a quick explanation.

    “Macaca” is, we discovered after the remark was made, a racial slur commonly used in the French-speaking areas of North Africa, and among crypto-racist groups in the USA. (As Allen’s mother is Tunisian, he would have had ample opportunity to hear that word and know what it meant.) The individual so addressed was a Webb campaign volunteer by the name of S.R. Sidarth, who is an American of South Asian heritage.

    now do a little research next time before you bring your concern trolling here.

  34. 34
    capelza says:

    Hmmm…a homespun ditty coming here. I have been thinking about Allen’s family background and the reactions in terms of something that happened in my own family.

    We are big into history and geneology so my Mom and StepDad go around the upland South doing the family histories. Now my stepdad is a bona fide soul of the hills. Family names like Ledbetter and Hawkins stretching back all the way through the Cumberland Gap. When he first started dating my mother he complemented her on her nice FROCK. (okay, snippy aside, George Allen would give his eye tooth for this real “heritage”…Confederate war dead ancestors, etc..).

    Anyhoo…while doing the research over time, it turns out that his family has some Black ancestory. And to the point of my story. My stepdad thought that was interesting and kinda cool as do I and the rest of our immediate family.

    However, a couple of his brothers were indignant and tried to deny it and certainly don’t want the neighbours to hear about it. We are talking in the past couple years in the Ozarks.

    I guess I’d put Allen in the second camp, not the first. At least his behaviour shows me that. I can not for the life of me understand why he just simply hasn’t embraced his heritage. As for the question being asked, yeah, I think it was ham fisted, however it isn’t like Allen didn’t know it was already out there, for months.

  35. 35
    nichevo says:

    But what’s really interesting is that Webb is making naked* appeals to bigotry, aided by the media, and you will lap up every racist vote it gets you without seeing any paradox whatsoever, while calling Allen the racist, apparently, because he espouses policies with which you disagree.

    ats: i bet you think that was an intelligent remark; you are mistaken. john cole is not cummings nor does he claim to be. again, you just can’t accept even the meekest and most constructive criticism. meanwhile, if this is the hill you want to die on, go find me a cummings cite that uses the names of religions.

    * Okay, not naked. Wearing a pair of high heels and a smile.

  36. 36
    capelza says:

    Oh and while we are on the macaca thingy…that was nasty, but does everyone forget what Allen then said to thim…”Welcome to America”? It isn’t just the macaca word!

  37. 37
    Mac Buckets says:

    Mac Buckets, save your breath. To quote what I believe is Christian doctrine, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

    You know, I thought of posting the exact same quote. It does seem particularly germane.

    If it were an anti-Barack Obama ad, with him holding a piece of watermelon while wearing bling and a throwback Kobe jersey, and calling him “The crack-dealer of government entitlement programs,” I suspect we wouldn’t get a lot of “Why is a watermelon racist? It’s a nice piece of fruit, which I often enjoy myself!” from these guys.

  38. 38
    nichevo says:

    John, no big deal of course, but much obliged. I do appreciate it. I’m sorry if you feel badgered into it, such was not my intent.

    Farmgirl, I indeed have no firsthand knowledge of the Macaca event. Sounds a bit wacky to be sure. It is probably infra dignitatem to ask further questions, like what racial group is meant by it, and what the word literally means if anything (e.g., is it an actual word).

    I dare say this is the first time I ever heard of such a slur. Keep in mind a fellow almost lost his job over the use of the word “niggardly,” which I trust you are aware is a word and is not a racial slur. Just as having “catholic” tastes does not mean you have a yen for Communion wafers ;>

    As for “concern trolling,” I don’t know what you mean. I’m certainly not “trolling” (?) my concern about the “Jewish question” in the VA Senate race. But thank you for answering.

  39. 39
    capelza says:

    Again, mac..when did three piece suits with money falling out of them become symbolic of Jewishness? Can you tell me? I’ll be sure to tell my husband when he proudly dons his one suit, with the waistcoat, that he perpetuating a Jewish stereotype. I can only wish that money would fall out of the pockets!

    And how should Miller have been portrayed physically in that ad? To look like Troy Donahue? Miller looks like the guy in the ad because THAT IS WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE!

    I don’t know where you spend your time, but the word antichrist does NOT immediately bring to mind Jewishness, but rather in my case, Sam Neill… :P

  40. 40
    Punchy says:

    Damnit. There I go again.

    And again. Try “dammit”.

  41. 41
    nichevo says:

    Mac Buckets, you needn’t go so far. Look at the Michael Steele blackface ad in MD. What more is there to say?

    It’s not even racism. It’s pragmatism. (“What racism? We just want to win!”) Which is bad for the US fighting people who want to chop off our heads (yours and mine first, unless John or ats or The Other Steve are gay, or unless farmgirl gets raped without four witnesses), but good for Democrats who want a majority of the vote.

  42. 42
    capelza says:

    nichevo… I would recommend that you find a link (perhaps someone here can give it) to the macaca “event”. If you are saying that you missed it then you are coming into the play after the intermission.

    Ad? You mean the thing that Steve Gilliard posted on his blog? Gilliard, who is Black. Do you consider that an ad, or are you just trying to muddy the waters?

  43. 43
    nichevo says:

    Capelza, you seem like a nice lady. If you look at the Nazi propaganda, I would imagine that at least some of the hooknosed illustrations of “The Eternal Jew” and so forth were modeled on actual people.

    You’re right, it’s really too bad Miller didn’t have plastic surgery to look whiter. And of course ever since the first political ad with a woodcut of Thomas Jefferson talking with his mouth full, people have been making the opponent look bad.

    However, it is a wonderful thing how coded messages work. You know from Ledbetters and Hawkinses because you have looked into it and because it is part of your heritage. As part of my heritage, I know enough about Judenhass to tell you that even unintentionally, the ad was worthy of a Goebbels or a Torquemada. And I understand that many decent people like you probably don’t know any better. Go look at a few illustrations and you’ll see what I mean.

    The real problem with the ad is not even that it looked as it did; the problem is that there was not one person in the campaign’s decision-making chain who noticed or was capable of noticing. I would guess there are no Jews on Webb’s staff (at least with ad roles), because any Jew would see this at once. It had to be created intentionally no more than was Burger King’s swirly cone with “Allah” supposedly written on it; the point is that it should have been caught before publication.

  44. 44
    mkultra says:

    Per Josh Marshall, according to Ryan Lizza from the TNR, this is what Bob Gibson, a writer for the Charlottesville Daily Progress, told him back in August:

    “It’s funny, but the only time that George Allen ever wanted a correction from me in 27 years of covering his races was when I wrote about his mother’s Jewish family origins. He insisted, through a press secretary, that his mother was raised a Christian.”

    In other words, Allen has long known about his mother’s ethnic background, or at least certainly had reason to know.

    In other words, Allen, who says his mother just told him about it, is a liar.

    That’s what this is about.

  45. 45
    nichevo says:

    capelza, I had heard something of the “macaca” issue. I did not look into it because, as Barbara Bush once said, I do not sully my beautiful mind with such drivel. I assumed it was some form of “shithead” and decided to use the brain cells on something else. By all means, I will look at a link if I must ;>

    I do not feel your concern about coming late to the “play” because I am chiefly concerned about the “Jewish question,” which is reasonably fresh. If your point is to the effect that it’s okay to call Allen a kike because he called somebody a spic, well, uh, …I got nothing.

    I guess I do mean the Gilliard pic. I don’t feel Gilliard was right by virtue of being black, any more than if I added a foot to the nose of a Jewish opponent in some race for dogcatcher. There is some school that makes that sort of thing out as all right; I do not agree. I think it is low.

    As for what is an ad, I do not see the major point. Is right or wrong dependent upon the size of the audience or whether the communication is a paid political communication?

  46. 46
    capelza says:

    I am a nice lady, thank you. Though I am not one of the PC liberals..more of the punch the masher in the face liberals.

    Oh and I am familiar with the illustrations you are referring to, however…if this ad had had Tom Delay instead of Harris Miller would it have been considered anti-semetic? Would the “code-words” have had the same meaning? It would have been a GREAT ad against Delay (DeLay..whatever). The depiction of Miller looks like what he looks like…in retrospect it wasn’t a good idea, but the phrase I have heard “dripping with anti-semetism”..no.

    Did I miss where you answered my question about Gilliard’s blog and the Blackface? Do you need to correct that statement? To my mind calling it an ad implies that it was, to me, an ad by the Dems against Steele rather than the opinion of a very fiery blogger.

    Also again I think that you are being less than truthful about the macaca “event”..as you seem to know a lot about regional ads (or NOT ads as the case may be) and politics. I can’t imagine for the life of me how you could have missed it.

  47. 47
    capelza says:

    Sorry missed your second post…

    So you would consider any blogger’s off the wall comment or photoshop an ad? Hmmm….

    As for the macaca…it is what opened the whole can of worms. A nasty word, Allen fumbled on the explanation (and still inexplicably to me was let off on the “Welcome to America” crack…you all who are so quick to condemn Webb’s ad seem to gloss over the fact that Allen called a dark-skinned man a macaca and told him “WTA” like it wasn’t conceivable to him that someone dark=skinned could actually be an AMERICAN?..you speak of code-words..dude..that’s some serious code) and when research was conducted and the real origin of the word came up, Allen’s Tunisian heritage came up. He’s been stonewalling ever since.

  48. 48
    Pb says:

    Er, yeah. How dare that cartoonist accurately portray the way lobbyist Harris Miller looks, and accurately quote what others have said about him. Three months ago. And congratulations on recruiting a new spoof to defend you, Mac!

  49. 49
    farmgirl says:

    nichevo — I apologize if I got you wrong, but maybe you were offline the week the “macaca” thing broke. (Or maybe you don’t frequent the left side of the blogosphere.) I’d never heard of the word before either, but it is apparently derived from the name of the Macaque monkey and is used to refer to any darker-skinned person.

    Yes, I remember the “niggardly” furor, and yes, I know it is a word. Wasn’t it a Boston city official who caught hell for using it? I was living there at the time. I don’t think the situations are really comparable. One involves a misunderstanding of a perfectly innocent word, and the other an obscure (to the mainstream) but real slur that the user attempted to explain away as either nonsense syllables or a bad “caca” joke. So maybe you can see why your attempt to take the same course was received sceptically.

    Also, I’m not sure why you think it would be infra dig to ask further questions … unless you thought maybe I wasn’t familiar with the phrase.

  50. 50
    fwiffo says:

    If it were an anti-Barack Obama ad, with him holding a piece of watermelon while wearing bling and a throwback Kobe jersey…

    So, you mean sorta like the bling-sporting fancyford.com site set up by the NRSC?

  51. 51
    chopper says:

    Look at the Michael Steele blackface ad in MD

    what michael steele blackface ad??? when did this happen?

  52. 52
    capelza says:

    chopper, it didn’t. Steve Gilliard did one that appeared on his blog and I’m sure every blog that wants to prove racism is rampant amongst Democrats (Glliard is Black in case anyone has missed that). nichevo threw that in there, I think, not thinking that people would notice the DIFFERENCE bewtween one blogger’s personal stance and the ad campaign of the DNC.

  53. 53
    chopper says:

    you know, i can see how someone might look at the caricature and think it could be anti-semitic. then again, it’s pretty hard to draw a caraciture of a large-nosed individual w/o well, a large nose. and i’m large-schnozzed myself.

    of course, drawing an alleged-crooked politician with money coming out of their pockets has a long history in american political cartooning, jewish or not.

    lastly, the term ‘anti-christ’ is not a code term for ‘jew’ as far as i know.

    so the whole accusation of the leaflet ‘dripping with anti-semitism’ is a typical over-the-top right-wing projection. gotta deflect allen’s past and present behaviour somehow, right?

  54. 54
    Sirkowski says:

    Allen isn’t Jewish because he ate a ham sandwich and that would kill a normal Jewish person. Everyone knows that.

  55. 55
    chopper says:

    you know, now that i look at it again, i don’t even see what ‘hook nose’ you’re even talking about. that isn’t a ‘hook nose’ at all.

    yeesh, talk about whining.

  56. 56
    Dungheap says:

    Anyone else find this odd?

    From the WaPo:

    “When I told Georgie, I said, ‘Now you don’t love me anymore.’ He said, ‘Mom, I respect you more than ever.’ “

    So George Allen’s mother was concerned that her son would not love her anymore once she told him she was Jewish? What’s that all about?

  57. 57
    les says:

    The whole story– says a lot about how Allen was raised–his mother hid her Jewish heritage out of fear her husband and his family wouldn’t accept it. Allen’s hanging with ex-Klansmen, the Confederate flag fetish, the noose, macaca, his current responses all are of a piece. As has been stated, the story isn’t that there is anything wrong with being Jewish–it’s that Allen apparently thinks there is.

  58. 58
  59. 59
    capelza says:

    chopper Says:

    you know, i can see how someone might look at the caricature and think it could be anti-semitic. then again, it’s pretty hard to draw a caraciture of a large-nosed individual w/o well, a large nose. and i’m large-schnozzed myself.

    My Slavic husband has a big conk…in fact he looks unnervingly like Vlad Tepes. Is someone were to draw him, the nose would figure very prominently.

    Les…in my kinder moments here, the whole Allen family history regarding this is a tragedy. Here’s a woman whose family has suffered, she comes to America, must hide who she is and then her son grows up to become a wannabe Son of the South, Battle Flag and all. Sort of a Greek or Shakespearean Tragedy…

  60. 60

    […] capelza brings up a great point on this thread on George Allen: “Oh and while we are on the macaca thingy…that was nasty, but does everyone forget what Allen then said to to him…‘Welcome to America?’” Yes, I was also more offended by the “Welcome to America” line than the “macaca” one. I’ll agree thought that one has only to listen to the delivery (twice) of the latter to realize that it was meant as a blatant slur. […]

  61. 61
    nichevo says:

    Leaving for Rosh Hashonah…Happy New Year to those who care.

    Was displeased with spontaneous Allen ‘macaca’ crack based on ‘caca’ link, WTA, and stupidity of gratuitous rudeness to a journo (why would he do such a thing? Did this guy annoy him?). Just too bizarre to process for my little brain.

    Was highly displeased with calculated Webb Miller ad, based on how it would have been so much better in the original German.

    There’s a difference between stupidity and evil.

    Was annoyed as hell by Peggy Fox at the debate, based on how she missed her true calling by being too late to serve in an officers’ brothel in Alsace-Lorraine. Was mildly annoyed at Allen’s clumsiness, but anybody would have a hard time with that one.

    Am truly disappointed that on this blog, so cracked up by many, that none of you get it.

    Sorry, gotta go. No time for more. Please don’t think I’m giving up.

    PS Never met, spoke, etc., with Mac Buckets – but that’s the sort of accusation to which it is pointless to reply.

  62. 62
    nichevo says:

    farmgirl, didn’t want to ignore you…if I thought you wouldn’t get ‘infra dig’ I wouldn’t have used it. I use words to communicate, not to obfuscate ;>

    I say it would be infra dig because IMHO it lowers one to dig into these prurient details. It is sometimes enough to know, say, that a woman was sexually assaulted, without knowing how many times, in what positions, etc. Right?

    Look, gotta go…best N

  63. 63
    Punchy says:

    Allen isn’t Jewish because he ate a ham sandwich and that would kill a normal Jewish person. Everyone knows that.

    According to Cypress Hill, “ham sandwhich” is slang for cops. So maybe Allen is dating a desk jockey from the Georgetown P.D.?

  64. 64
    Andrew says:

    So George Allen’s mother was concerned that her son would not love her anymore once she told him she was Jewish? What’s that all about?

    Probably something to do with the fact that he has been telling her how much he hates Jews for the past 40 years.

    Allen isn’t Jewish because he ate a ham sandwich and that would kill a normal Jewish person. Everyone knows that.

    Wait, maybe Allen is like Blade. He has all of the Jew powers, but none of their weaknesses.

  65. 65

    Am truly disappointed that on this blog, so cracked up by many, that none of you get it.

    We bow before your superior intellect, oh arrogant one.

  66. 66

    nichevo wrote:

    What’s interesting, The Other Steve, is that you wouldn’t know “Tu quoque” if it irrumated you.

    You are the expert on logical fallacy, so I shall yield to your superior experience.

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  1. […] capelza brings up a great point on this thread on George Allen: “Oh and while we are on the macaca thingy…that was nasty, but does everyone forget what Allen then said to to him…‘Welcome to America?’” Yes, I was also more offended by the “Welcome to America” line than the “macaca” one. I’ll agree thought that one has only to listen to the delivery (twice) of the latter to realize that it was meant as a blatant slur. […]

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