The Allen Flap

I feel duly obligated as a blog owner to weigh in on the George Allen ‘Macaca’ affair. To be honest, I had heard that Allen had said something stupid, and I really didn’t pay any attention to it because, well, let’s face it- the last few years I have grown accustomed to elected Republicans saying something stupid. At any rate, here is the latest:

What does Macaca really mean? Three Virginia Republicans confirmed to the Hotline that several Allen campaign aides and advisers are telling allies that the word was a made-up, off-the-cuff neologism that these aides occasionally used to refer to tracker S.R. Sidarth well before last Saturday’s videotaped encounter.

According to two Republicans who heard the word used, “macaca” was a mash-up of “Mohawk,” referring to Sidarth’s distinctive hair, and “caca,” Spanish slang for excrement, or “shit.”

Said one Republican close to the campaign: “In other words, he was a shit-head, an annoyance.” Allen, according to Republicans, heard members of his traveling entourage and Virginia Republicans use the phrase and picked it up.
It was the first word that came to his mind when he spied Sidarth at the weekend’s event, according to Republicans who have been briefed on Allen’s version of the event.

Opponents of Allen have said that Sidarth’s hair was clearly styled as a mullet rather than as a Mohawk. Republicans are sending around a post by Chad Dotson, a Virginia prosecutor who blogs as “Commonwealth Conservative,” which contains a photograph of Sidarth at an Allen event. Sidarth’s hair appears to be shaved on the side and thick strands stretch over the top of his head from his neck to his temple. (Dotson is a Republican and unabashed Allen supporter.

Have I ever mentioned how much I hate August?

At any rate, this whole thing changes my opinion of Allen not at all- I think he is a buffoon who caters to the religious right, I won’t be voting for him as I am not a resident of Virginia, and given a choice between Allen, Huckabee, and Sam Brownback for Republican candidate for President in 2008, I would select Ralph Nader. Seriously.

My only real concern about this whole issue is that I couldn’t come up with a better title or some clever quip, which means my skills are slipping (if I ever had any). I tried and tried, and the best I could up with was ‘You say muchacha, Allen says Macaca.’ Sorry folks. I got no game.

*** Update ***

Tim reminded me via AOLIM that one of the issues with this story is that Allen has had issues regarding race-related comments/actions in the past- he has, and I forgot about them. After thinking about it, I remember the noose incident, which by itself can be dismissed. Ezra Klein has more background. On the other hand, Allen was one of the people who initiated the apology for lynching in the Senate.

So I guess his past, and the fact that questions about his past exist, makes his statements not only indefensible, but dumber than I even previously thought. And I think Allen is a stooge.

Not that any of this matters. I am not defending the moron, and I am not voting for him. Ever.






195 replies
  1. 1
    Pb says:

    If you had been paying attention, you could have stolen a clever title/headline from one of the news shows, like “Hakuna Macaca”. Personally I liked TDS’ “DISS INGENUOUS”.

    Meanwhile… George Allen is still a bigot, film at 11. Yawn.

  2. 2
    de stijl says:

    It’s not an Allen or Macaca quip, but one of my faves does apply to Virginia:

    Virginia is for lovers*

    * some restrictions apply

  3. 3
    Punchy says:

    Or

    “Shorter Allen: Suck Macaca”

  4. 4
    binky says:

    “Diss ingenuous,” especially since his chances of knowing about North African slurs is higher what with his language and family connection.

  5. 5
    Steve says:

    Nah, I like the story that it was some madeup nonsense word that just happened (who knew?) to be a racial slur. Who wouldn’t believe that one?

  6. 6

    Thankfully the people of Virginia have a choice and don’t have to vote for Allen over Ralph Nader.

  7. 7
    Cyrus says:

    Incredible. I thought the story about a nickname was flimsy ass-covering, but it turns out to be the truth… they nicknamed him “shithead”! Well, maybe I should have taken their word for it.

  8. 8
    Darrell says:

    Nah, I like the story that it was some madeup nonsense word that just happened (who knew?) to be a racial slur. Who wouldn’t believe that one?

    Yes, because macaca or however it’s spelled, it such a well known slur, isnt’ it Steve? Who wouldn’t have immediately recognized it as such? You certainly make a good point there.

    What are Allen’s language skills, anyway? binky’s link doesn’t show much, just that Allen’s mother was an immigrant from Tunisia with spanish/french heritage. Does that make Allen fluent, or semi-fluent by default in Spanish, French and arabic? Because the leftists here are asserting that he has these vague “language skills” that they never quite specify.

  9. 9
    lard lad says:

    I look forward to the barrage of idiotic defenses of Allen and his bigotry from the right-wing blogosphere, for a good snort of derision if nothing else. (Clears my sinuses.)

    Like Senator Darrell, who maintains that since Sidarth was being a pest, Allen was perfectly justified in zapping him with an obvious ethnic slur. Nicely played, chump.

    I’ll leave it to others to imagine how Darrell and his ilk would have responded if, say, John Kerry had publicly called a GOP videotaper “cracker” or “redneck,” on the campaign trail two years ago. It would’ve sounded like the 4th of fucking July… with GOP heads exploding instead of firecrackers.

  10. 10
    neil says:

    Have I ever mentioned how much I hate August?

    You guys might not have noticed, but this is a subtle jab at Leos. John Cole can’t resist directing these messages to other Leo-haters. Not exactly subtle, is it?

  11. 11
    Darrell says:

    Like Senator Darrell, who maintains that since Sidarth was being a pest, Allen was perfectly justified in zapping him with an obvious ethnic slur

    Yes, obvious to .00001% of Americans.

  12. 12
    Darrell says:

    I’ll leave it to others to imagine how Darrell and his ilk would have responded if, say, John Kerry had publicly called a GOP videotaper “cracker” or “redneck,”

    Didn’t Howard Dean openly state that Dems should court the ‘redneck’ vote?

  13. 13
    Steve says:

    Yes, because macaca or however it’s spelled, it such a well known slur, isnt’ it Steve? Who wouldn’t have immediately recognized it as such? You certainly make a good point there.

    But that’s the whole point, which is that even if it’s an uncommon slur in this country, the odds of ramming together a bunch of nonsense syllables and coincidentally coming up with a slur against brown people are astronomical.

  14. 14
    Pooh says:

    Darrell, just out of curiousity what would a right-wing politician have to do for you to be critical of them? (And no, “become a liberal/gay scoutmaster” doesn’t count.)

  15. 15
    Darrell says:

    But that’s the whole point, which is that even if it’s an uncommon slur in this country, the odds of ramming together a bunch of nonsense syllables and coincidentally coming up with a slur against brown people are astronomical.

    Except that it hasn’t been established that the word is a slur against “brown people” to my knowledge. Please cite

  16. 16
    Steve says:

    Didn’t Howard Dean openly state that Dems should court the ‘redneck’ vote?

    Not that I’m aware of, but I’m sure this is accepted truth in quarters where they view the “reality-based community” as something worthy of mockery.

  17. 17
    Steve says:

    Except that it hasn’t been established that the word is a slur against “brown people” to my knowledge. Please cite

    Oh, give me a break. The Willie Horton ad hasn’t been established as racist to your satisfaction, either. Do your own research, clown.

  18. 18
    binky says:

    Yes, obvious to .00001% of Americans.

    Because that .00001% was the only fraction who went to the zoo, or studied a romance language? C’mon.

    But maybe you’re right, it was totaly innocent. Just like saying “welcome to America” is a common greeting.

  19. 19
    Punchy says:

    Have I ever mentioned how much I hate August?

    You guys might not have noticed, but this is a subtle jab at Leos. John Cole can’t resist directing these messages to other Leo-haters. Not exactly subtle, is it?

    Maybe he hates dogs, and days that are described by them.

    In other “news”–Faux News and Greta Van Sun-tan just fingered themselves over the news that Little J-Benet Ramsey’s killer has been arrested. Just when all news on Dead Cracker Chicks reached it’s lull, Faux can now milk this for the next 3 years. Hooray.

  20. 20
    Ancient Purple says:

    What are Allen’s language skills, anyway?… Because the leftists here are asserting that he has these vague “language skills” that they never quite specify.

    Darrell, to everyone’s surprise, is wrong again.

    While introducing Allen, who received his bachelor’s degree and law degree from the University of Virginia, Dr. Cormier noted an interesting personal connection. “A little known fact about Senator Allen is that his undergraduate education was enhanced substantially by his excellent performance in French class, taught by none other than Dr. Raymond Cormier, visiting professor of French at Longwood, and my husband! I have up here on the podium the gradebook, and he got a very good grade. No wonder the senator can applaud his superior education.”

    Link. (Last paragraph.)

  21. 21
    Darrell says:

    Just like saying “welcome to America” is a common greeting.

    I freely admit that Allen was jabbing at the guy. Hell, the kid had been hounding him from stop to stop with a videocamera in his face, no doubt trying to provoke a reaction.

  22. 22
    Darrell says:

    “A little known fact about Senator Allen is that his undergraduate education was enhanced substantially by his excellent performance in French class

    Now we’re getting somewhere. So, is macaca a French word then?

  23. 23
    Darrell says:

    The Willie Horton ad hasn’t been established as racist to your satisfaction

    Steve, when you can produce the name, or even 1 name, of a white prisoner released as part of the Mass furlough program under Dukakis who raped or murdered in the same general timeframe as Willie Horton, then you might have a case. Because right now, you’re just acting like a typical liberal ahole, hurling unsubstantiated accusations of racism to smear the other side.

  24. 24
    Keith says:

    Maybe he just has a slight stutter and meant to call Sidarth a “macaw”, or majestic, ornate bird. So in reality, Allen was actually complementing the guy, and everyone misunderstood the poor man with the stuttering handicap. You people are soooo insensitive to the plight of the handicapped (or in Allen’s case, “handi-capable!”).

    BTW: It’s “weigh in”, not “way in”

  25. 25
    Steve says:

    Willie Horton ad… still not racist, on Planet Darrell. Way to rebuild that credibility, champ.

  26. 26
    Pooh says:

    Because right now, you’re just acting like a typical liberal ahole, hurling unsubstantiated accusations of racism to smear the other side.

    So let me get this straight, with Juan Cole we dig deep into the subtext but with GHWB, just the facts, ma’am. Or, perhaps, shorter Darrell “IOKIYAR”.

    But we all knew that already.

  27. 27
    Sam Hutcheson says:

    Why I bother, I’ll never know, but what the hell:

    Now we’re getting somewhere. So, is macaca a French word then?

    It’s a French slur against North Africans.

    http://dictionary.reference.co.....8;q=Macaca

    The internets, son. Try them sometime.

    s/

  28. 28
    John Cole says:

    BTW: It’s “weigh in”, not “way in”

    Thanks, fixed.

    I don’t no y it is, butt I am getting worse and worse with homonyms every year.

  29. 29
    Steve says:

    I just went to Technorati to look for something, and it said the #1 term currently being searched for is “macaca.”

    I guess the early predictions of Allen sycophants that this story would have no legs are not panning out.

    Meanwhile, we’ll check back with Darrell in 20 years or so to see if he acknowledges it’s a racial slur by then.

  30. 30
    Darrell says:

    It’s a French slur against North Africans.

    http://dictionary.reference.co.....8;q=Macaca

    Not according to the link you provide which supposedly makes that point..

  31. 31
    Don says:

    I think claiming that Allen made an obscure racist crack is giving him too much credit. The video you can watch yourself – linked off http://www.vaconservative.com – has him referring to Sidarth working for his opponent, then repeatedly saying things like “show it to his opponent” when he really means “my opponent, his boss.” A guy that articulate is using a clever and obscure word for ‘monkey?’ I think not.

    He was taking an opportunity to single out someone who was following him around and use it as a jumping-off point to beat on his opponent. -ho-hum-. So he’s maybe a jerk, so what? We cheapen the impact of real racism and its continued effects when we make tempests in teapots like this.

  32. 32
    Dungheap says:

    Shorter George Allen:

    “Hey, monkey-boy. Welcome to America.”

    And folks are defending this?

  33. 33
    feral1 says:

    311 posts in the Juan Cole thread and John still cannot provide one example of an anti-semitic comment from Juan. No wonder he’s trying to push it down the screen.

  34. 34
    Darrell says:

    I guess the early predictions of Allen sycophants that this story would have no legs are not panning out.

    More likely desperate liberals frantically searching for ways to pin the ‘racist’ label on Allen.

    Hilarious how Steve got so pissy and outraged at the suggestion that Juan cole is an anti-semite, yet he himself and other leftists often throw unstubstantiated accusations of racism against conservatives which much less to back up their accusations. I guess that’s what’s called “principled” in the reality based community.

  35. 35
    neil says:

    Yes, Darrell, ‘macaca’ is French for ‘macaque’.

    Hell, the kid had been hounding him from stop to stop with a videocamera in his face, no doubt trying to provoke a reaction.

    This is utterly false. Virtually every modern campaign employs trackers, and Allen in fact has two following Webb around. They’re named Brian Sullivan and Matt Pinsker. Here’s a former tracker for Allen at work.

  36. 36
    Mr Furious says:

    Hell, the kid had been hounding him from stop to stop with a videocamera in his face, no doubt trying to provoke a reaction.

    Unless you are ever going to supply a link or source, besides the voices in your head, that this guy was “harrassing,” “hounding” or “in Allen’s face” you should shut the fuck up. I already dismantled all of your arguments in the other thread, douchebag.

    – – –

    Except that it hasn’t been established that the word is a slur against “brown people” to my knowledge. Please cite

    I’m not sure the color of the sky has been “established to your knowledge,: but here’s several sources on this, all of which were readily available the other day:

    [WaPo] “In some European cultures, macaca is also considered a racial slur against African immigrants”.

    [link] Not only is macaque apparently a French slur used to describe North Africans, Allen would have good reason to know it is. His mother is French Tunisian (yeah, that’s in North Africa), and Allen speaks French.

    link] Macaque (Belgium & France) a Negro (originally) or a person of North African origin (more recently); derived from macaque monkeys

    – – –

    Oh, and from the same WaPo article, here’s a response to your inane assertion that it is unusual to tape opponent’s appearences:

    Sidarth…had been assigned to trail Allen with a video camera to document his travels and speeches for Webb, a common campaign tactic.

  37. 37
    Darrell says:

    feral1 Says:

    311 posts in the Juan Cole thread and John still cannot provide one example of an anti-semitic comment from Juan

    How about the example where that piece of shit Juan Cole blames the murder of that US naval officer all on Israel?.. the officer who was murdered because he “looked Jewish”. Juan Cole defended it and excused it, and blamed it all on Israel. I’d say if that’s not anti-semitic, it’s at a minimum a very hateful and shitty thing for him to have said. It gives a glimpse into his black heart, that’s for sure.

  38. 38

    Damn Furious, I was going to impress everybody with my French skills by pointing out that it’s spelled “macaque”, but you beat me to it.

  39. 39
    Steve says:

    Hilarious how Steve got so pissy and outraged at the suggestion that Juan cole is an anti-semite, yet he himself and other leftists often throw unstubstantiated accusations of racism against conservatives which much less to back up their accusations.

    “Unsubstantiated” = Darrell doesn’t agree with it

  40. 40
    Darrell says:

    Not only is macaque apparently a French slur used to describe North Africans

    I’m confused. That kid was of Indian descent, not North African (Morocco, Tunisia, Algerian, etc)

  41. 41
    Andrew says:

    Let’s not overlook the fact that Allen assumed that Mr. Macaca is a foreigner because, well, he is brown.

    But the best aspect is that “Macaca” is a code word used by White Power organizations. (WHITE POWER BILL!) Note that this will probably help Allen’s chances in Virginia.

  42. 42
    Pb says:

    Regarding the slur’s prevalence, I give you this analysis from Daily Kos–unlike Darrell (and John Cole, some days…), they even have sources and reasoned discussion and stuff.

  43. 43
    Steve says:

    How about the example where that piece of shit Juan Cole blames the murder of that US naval officer all on Israel?.. the officer who was murdered because he “looked Jewish”. Juan Cole defended it and excused it, and blamed it all on Israel.

    He didn’t defend the murder, excuse it, or “blame it all on Israel”… but thanks for being such a good friend to Israel. The support of people like you and George W. Bush really enhances Israel’s image in the eyes of the world.

  44. 44
    Zifnab says:

    Damn Furious, I was going to impress everybody with my French skills by pointing out that it’s spelled “macaque”, but you beat me to it.

    Racism in Virgina is one thing, but I just don’t think I can bring myself to vote for a man of poor speling. Seriously, some of us have standards.

  45. 45
    Steve says:

    I’m confused. That kid was of Indian descent, not North African (Morocco, Tunisia, Algerian, etc)

    This has to be one of the most brilliant insights I’ve ever read. If it’s a slur towards Africans, and someone says it to an Indian, clearly it must just have been a coincidental use of the same syllables. Because no one would ever use a slur intended for dark people from Africa to insult dark people from India.

    For clarity, I’ll just copy a bit of Jeffrey Feldman’s analysis from the above link, because I’d hate to see someone fail to click the link and miss it:

    What I hope to show in these results are instances where the word ‘macaca’ or ‘macaque’ are being used as an offensive racial slur on par with other more familiar racial slurs. This research is intended to clarify what exactly happened in the outburst by George Allen using sources commonly available to anyone with a computer.

    Google Search: nigger+macaque

    Source: Vanguard News Network Forum
    Quote: “I watched the press conference they had when they caught the rampaging macaque. Niggy the Pinhead here put on a hilarious performance: “I’s only bin shairf fo’ a few munts…” it mumbled over & over, desperate to pass dat ol’ buck. “I’s bin foccusin’ on securetee in de jail, but now I be foccussin’ on de coathouse, know whum sayin’?”

    It’s all part of the forced-at-fed-gunpoint jewfarce of pretending that niggers have any bidness leading anything more complex than tribal grub-hunting expeditions.”

    Farther down in the same thread, another reader quoted the section with ‘macaque,’ made it bold face and replied as follows:

    Source: Vanguard News Network Forum
    Quote: “I watched the press conference they had when they caught the rampaging macaque. …goddamn rapin, lootin’, murderin’, rampaging niggers, goddamn them all…

    Soure: ACDC Forum
    Quote: “Well, I have the same opinion too … but sometimes we’re referring to a “human-race” and so I was a bit surprised that in the US they don’t call a nigger a nigger. Here in our dictionary dutch translation : neger = black citizen originating from africa … And here there’s nothing wrong with that word. Here the “niggers” call themselves “niggers” too …. so, I don’t know why in the US this word is so negative … maybe because of people there where using this word more in a way of insults towards black people. I think that black people where much more discriminated in the US than here (slavery, etc…). Every continent has it’s own history … Another example : here in Belgium when you want to insult an arab …. you would never say “arab” … but use the words “macaque” or “bougnoul”. I don’t want to teach you guys how to insult an arab or motivate you to insult them … I just want to say we use a “nickname” instead of using the name of the race. But of course if you would call them a “dirty arab” … this is offending too.

    Source: Stormfront White Pride World Wide
    Quote: “I agree with you Gabor, “our” players sure don’t look like they had Celts or Francs for ancestors. Football in France isn’t sport it’s politics, what the French avatar of ZOG wants is for us to admire niggers and sand niggers like Zidane so that we get used to being around untermenschen and accept the presence on our soil of the millions of “chance pour la France” that plague our lives. Didn’t work this time though, une France macaque-bougnoule-blancgnoule pas question, jamais…Victory through superior intelligence!

    Google Search: “racial slur”+macaque

    Source: Vanguard News Network – Reader Letters
    Quote: “What it’s like in France these days…I see it’s the same in America as in Europe. Here in France we got those niggers and arabs (quite the same thing as your coons, but muslims !!!) saying their hate of everything White. They own a lot of suburbs where the police cannot go anymore, white families are forced to flee or see their kids molested, racketted, their young daughters gang-raped in a basement. The liberals in the gov’t and medias just pretend it’s “far-right lies”, that the bougnoules (an offensive name for the arabs here) are victims of our racism (though of course they get every welfare aid that exists), marxist judges let em roam free. Islam is conquering the country fast, now there are muslim meals in the schools, and in some places white children have to learn arab at school ! Rappers are the same as yours, proclaiming they will conquer everything, fuck the country, kill the whites, fuck every white woman they see. Ordinary citizens aren’t allowed to own a gun and defend themselves. This week a white father was jailed because he shot the arab raper of his 12 year old daughter. Of course now, if an arab does the same, he’ll be let free because his fellows boucaques (contraction of bougnoule and macaque) would threaten to burn everything. Police station are attacked and even burnt every week, ethnic arab gangs own rocket-launchers and kalashnikovs.

    Google Search: “Original Dissent”+macaque

    Source: Original Dissent
    Quote: “FYI – friends of mine who are cops told me years ago that [Rodney] King is “red-flagged” in the system, meaning that if/when he is pulled over, sergeants (superior officers) are to be called to the scene immdiately, or he is to be let go if possilble. All to avoid the appearance of Sir Rodney being picked on. Don’t want another riot you know. And the macaque has taken full advantage of this privilege.”

    Source: Original Dissent
    Quote:”Bryant lacked the all-important street credibility, they said, and although the defining characteristics of “street cred” remain unclear, some said Bryant didn’t match up to the appeal of Allen Iverson and Tracy McGrady. Lying coward. We all know the only way to gain “street cred” with nigra gutter scum is to be just like them. That’s why that ugly cornrowed thug Iverson has it while the well-tailored macaque-about-town Kobe doesn’t. Keep it real, yo.”

    CONCLUSION
    The term ‘macaque’–also pronounced ‘mukakkah’–is a commonly used racial slur on par with the word ‘nigger’ in the united states.

    In Europe, the word ‘macaque’ is largely a racial slur used to insult people of North African descent. It is roughly synonomous with ‘dirty arab.’

    Most of the results that came back in these searches took me to well known white supremacy websites–and to posts from the past two or three years. So this is a phrase that is still in use.

    Also returned where hundreds of ‘ethnic slur’ dictionaries online, all of which list this term as a ‘Belgian’ racial slur.

  46. 46
    Steve says:

    By the way, if anyone has forgotten what actual anti-semitism looks like given all the random accusations that fly around this blog, feel free to check out some of the far-right sites like Vanguard and Stormfront linked in Feldman’s post.

  47. 47
    jaime says:

    More likely desperate liberals frantically searching for ways to pin the ‘racist’ label on Allen.

    His calling a brown person in a room full of whites a Ni***r, for all intents and purposes, his love of confederate flags, nooses, and voting record against the MLK holiday pretty much proves he’s a racist.

    Now, Go to google you drooling idiot, type in stormfront and macaca, and you’ll see what skinheads think macaca is. If link after link of Christiano-Fascists calling blacks macaca doesn’t open your eyes, than you are no better than they.

  48. 48
    neil says:

    I’m confused. That kid was of Indian descent, not North African (Morocco, Tunisia, Algerian, etc)

    Gosh, you’d have to be some sort of bigot to get those two confused!

  49. 49
    Darrell says:

    He didn’t defend the murder, excuse it, or “blame it all on Israel”… but thanks for being such a good friend to Israel

    The hell he didn’t

    The Iraqi killer of Reserve Navy Lt. Kylan Jones-Huffman has been brought to justice in an Iraqi court. Although he has since changed his story, he at one point admitted to killing Jones-Huffman with a bullet through the back of the neck while the latter was stuck in traffic in downtown Hilla. The assassin said that he felt that Jones-Huffman “looked Jewish.” The fruits of hatred sowed in the Middle East by aggressive and expansionist Israeli policies in the West Bank and Gaza against the Palestinians and in south Lebanon against Shiites continue to be harvested by Americans.

    No mention of arab countries stirring up jew hatred. Not one word. He blamed it all on Israel, as usual.

    The support of people like you and George W. Bush really enhances Israel’s image in the eyes of the world.

    Given the anti-Israel vitriol coming from the middle east and Europe, I think your concerns about Israel’s image in the eyes of ‘world opinion’ are very ‘reality based’ Steve.

  50. 50
    jaime says:

    Just like Darrell to pick up an argument from another thread and forget on purpose to tack on the context (read: liast paragraph) that was stapled to his forhead.

    And what do you care about Jew-hate. Don’t they all get chucked into hellfire come Armageddon?

  51. 51
    Darrell says:

    For clarity, I’ll just copy a bit of Jeffrey Feldman’s analysis from the above link, because I’d hate to see someone fail to click the link and miss it:

    Thanks for that research Steve, and I’ll add to it with additional racial slurs you ‘racists’ probably use all the time. From the Racial slurs datbase

    Egglet
    Corky
    Abba Dabba
    Bjork
    Gasbag
    Hoosier
    Moon Cricket
    etc.

    Funny though, as comprehensive as that database is, not a mention of macaca or macaque or anything similar.

  52. 52
    Darrell says:

    Nothing on macaca or macaque in Wikipedia’s database of ethnic slurs either. You guys are acting like a bunch Moon Crickets

  53. 53
    jaime says:

    Folks: I’d like you to notice Darrell evasion tactic C13.

    Dispute a topic. Get proven wrong. Bring up another topic from a previous thread. Of course he’ll refuse to answer questions brought up in that thread like:

    when you can produce the name, or even 1 name, of a white prisoner released as part of the Mass furlough program under Dukakis who raped or murdered in the same general timeframe as Willie Horton

    Do you realize that you are arguing, since Willie Horton was the only violent repeat felon in the furlough program, that it was an unqualified success?I have posed that question everytime he writes about Willie Horton and he has never answered.

    You know Darrell, I hear the military is great training to lose weight. You may get to see your dick again one day.

  54. 54
    Nikki says:

    John,

    If you’ve read through the comments here and read the sources folks have linked to support their arguments, are you willing to concede that George Allen is racist?

  55. 55
    Steve says:

    Does anyone understand the point Darrell is trying to make?

    From here, it looks sort of like he’s saying that no matter how many white supremacist sites use it as a racial slur, it can’t be much of one if it’s not listed on Wikipedia.

  56. 56
    Darrell says:

    But we do have this slur coming from Dems (pay attention lard lad)

    The state Senate leader ridiculed some San Diego-area opponents of illegal immigration yesterday by describing them as “crackers,” often used as a disparaging term for poor, white people in the South.

    and of course the whole Lieberman-in-black-face thing was ok with you liberal hypocrites too. Hey, I’m jus sayin’

  57. 57
    Nikki says:

    I only ask because you posted that his comments were “indefensible” and stated that he is a “stooge” and also pointed out that you will never vote for him (something no one will ever be able to prove). But you have yet to state whether you believe he is racist.

  58. 58
    jaime says:

    Nothing on macaca or macaque in Wikipedia’s database of ethnic slurs either.

    Except for this, you stupid illiterate fuck.

    Makak
    (Belgium & the Netherlands) a Moroccan; derived from macaque

  59. 59
    neil says:

    Willie Horton wasn’t the only violent repeat felon in the furlough program.

  60. 60
    Darrell says:

    From here, it looks sort of like he’s saying that no matter how many white supremacist sites use it as a racial slur

    What I’m saying is that just because some racist site uses some weird racial terms, doesn’t mean those terms are established as ‘racist’ among the populace, hence the cites of two extensive racial slur databases, neither of which made any mention of the term macaca or macaque… I’m sure you could find many other weird terms used on those Stormfron sites as well. Not unlike learning egglet is a racial slur.

  61. 61
    Darrell says:

    neil Says:

    Willie Horton wasn’t the only violent repeat felon in the furlough program.

    He was the only one who committed a serious crime during his furlough ‘vacation’.. at least within a several year time period it appears.

  62. 62
    Darrell says:

    Makak
    (Belgium & the Netherlands) a Moroccan; derived from macaque

    My bad. I stand partially corrected on one of the databases.

  63. 63
    Darrell says:

    Except for this, you stupid illiterate fuck.

    Unprovoked outbursts like this are quite common from angry liberals.

  64. 64
    Steve says:

    Darrell sure nailed us by bringing up some Democrat no one has ever heard of… I hereby retract all the nice things I’ve ever said about “Oakland Democrat Don Perata,” who I’m sure we’ll all admit, is a well-known spokesman for liberals everywhere. Also, I can’t believe we haven’t heard about Robert Byrd yet.

    Although I would point out, cracker is also the name of a common snack food, and it has not been proven to my satisfaction that he was not simply hungry, and also Howard Dean once used the word “redneck,” except he didn’t, blah blah blah

  65. 65
    jaime says:

    Your mouthbreathing ignorance, chickenhawk cowardice, and sheer on devotion to dishonesty is what provokes my outbursts.

  66. 66
    neil says:

    I stand partially corrected on one of the databases.

    And entirely corrected on.. well, it’s just too much to list.

  67. 67
    neil says:

    Well, since Darrell has tried and failed to argue that ‘macaca’ isn’t a racist slur, I suppose the only angle left is for him to argue that there is no Senator George Allen.

  68. 68
    Krista says:

    You know, just the fact that he’d single out this fellow and tell him “Welcome to America”, when the guy was fucking BORN in America, and THEN call him a word that oh-gee-what-a-coincidence happens to be a breed of MONKEY… I mean…come on! And he used the term twice, so it was no slip of the tongue.

    Darrell, is this the kind of guy you think would make a good president? Even if you don’t think it was racist (which you obviously don’t, and which I obviously do), can we at least agree that the guy’s an idiot who can’t control what comes out of his mouth?

  69. 69
  70. 70
    Vladi G says:

    I freely admit that Allen was jabbing at the guy. Hell, the kid had been hounding him from stop to stop with a videocamera in his face, no doubt trying to provoke a reaction.

    Yeah, how dare they sound a brown person to track an obvious racist like Allen. They KNEW it would provoke a reaction amongst a group full of white folks.

    It’s good to see serial liar Darrell is at it again, accusing the Webb campaign of “hounding” Allen by sending a tracker, SOMETHING EVERY CAMPAIGN DOES (including the Allen campaign, who practically had a staffer arrested for trespassing, going so far as to follow Webb into the restroom), to record his public statements. Of course, he has no evidence of this alleged “hounding”. The only evidence is a video taken from a respectable distance. See, for Darrell, using his slurs and lies against him is “hounding”. He has this problem a lot, being a serial liar and all.

  71. 71
    Ancient Purple says:

    I’m confused. That kid was of Indian descent, not North African (Morocco, Tunisia, Algerian, etc)

    Because bigots are so noted for their keen intellect and rationale.

    Like this one:

    In Mesa, Arizona, a man was charged with first-degree murder Sunday in connection with a series of shootings that police said could be a racially-motivated response to last week’s terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.

    Mesa police said Francisco Roque, 42, was being held on a $1 million bond in the killing of Balbir Singh Sodhi, 49, a Chevron gas station owner. Sodhi, from Punjab, India, was shot to death while doing landscaping outside his business Saturday afternoon.

    Many Sikhs believe he is the first to have been killed in retaliation for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

    Family members, friends, and members of the Indian Sikh community say they are being targeted because their men wear turbans and long beards as part of their religious dress, a tradition that’s lasted for 500 years.

    “Our appearance looks like Osama bin Laden and those of Afghanistan,” said friend Suminder Sodhi, alluding to the man the U.S. has branded the “prime suspect” in the attacks. “But we are different people from Muslim people. We have different beliefs, a different religion.” Link.

  72. 72
    Pooh says:

    You make it too easy, Senator

    Unprovoked outbursts like this are quite common from angry liberals.

    Considering how often you call us unhinged moonbats, etc., which I assume is worse than simply following someone around with a camera, Isn’t that simply incredible that such behavior might perturb us?:

    That would be the campaign worker of Allen’s political opponent who was following Allen around from stop to stop in his face with a video camera. Isn’t that simply incredible that such behavior might perturb Allen?

    So on planet Darrell, we are justified.

    Will the Senator yield?

  73. 73

    The offensive remarks made by Senator George Allen have all the makings of a Dick Wadhams campaign. Wadhams cut his political teeth in Colorado and has been seen as the person behind the rise of Senator Wayne Allard, a Colorado veterinarian. Wadhams went on to orchestrate the campaign against Tom Daschle in South Dakota and is now leading Allen’s reelection effort.

    Dick Wadhams is a man many have called Karl Rove’s protégé. During Wadhams work in Colorado for Senator Wayne Allard’s 2002 reelection, he gave one of the most acerbic victory speeches I have ever witnessed. While gloating at the defeat of Ted Strickland, his comments were vile and hateful. The man is Karl Rove absent a scintilla of decorum and decency…if you can imagine that! It appears that George Allen believes that two bullies are better than one.

    Read full article here:

    http://www.thoughttheater.com

  74. 74
    Andrew says:

    Sidarth went to my high school. Which means he is a big nerd, not a macaca. A super huge nerd.

  75. 75
    Punchy says:

    Damn you Steve, you beat me to that post/link.

    According to Wikipedia, “Macaca” means “Dead JonBenet” in Zulu, and interestingly, in American Sign Language it’s signed by putting one’s foot into one’s mouth.

  76. 76
    Richard 23 says:

    The Young Turks are going to be interviewing the guy that Allen called a macaque, for those that are interested. Maybe Darrell can call or email in to ask if the guy was in Allen’s face.

    The interview is probably going to start at 4:30 pm pst today.

    The Young Turks is a radio show which can be heard on Sirius Left. You can also watch the show on video stream linked on their website.

  77. 77
    Krista says:

    Is it just me, or does “The Allen Flap” either sound like part of an aircraft engine, or like some weird gynecological term?

  78. 78
    Pooh says:

    weird gynecological term?

    Uhm, ew?

  79. 79
    Andrew says:

    I don’t think you want an Allen near your gynecological anything. You’d end up Santoruming all over his Frist.

  80. 80
    ThymeZone says:

    The Allen Flap is boring.

    Allen is as worthless as described in the title post. And as irrelevant.

  81. 81
    lard lad says:

    But we do have this slur coming from Dems (pay attention lard lad)

    The state Senate leader ridiculed some San Diego-area opponents of illegal immigration yesterday by describing them as “crackers,” often used as a disparaging term for poor, white people in the South.

    And guess what, Darrell: in my opinion, if this story is true, then the “state Senate leader” (whoever he might be) is an insulting, patronizing horse’s ass. Words like “cracker” are flat-out insulting, and politicians who sling them around for effect deserve a smackdown.

    Taking that stand, I feel perfectly justified in extending the same scorn to Allen, and am hoping that his li’l gaffe blows a Brazil-sized hole in his presidential bid. Jackass.

  82. 82
    chopper says:

    man, darrell is spinning hard. someone must have wound up the key sticking outta his back.

    From the Racial slurs datbase

    Egglet
    Corky
    Abba Dabba
    Bjork
    Gasbag
    Hoosier
    Moon Cricket
    etc.

    yeah, if john kerry had called a retarded kid ‘corky’ i’m sure you’d just let it go. in fact, i think from now on i’m a call darrell ‘corky’. it just sounds right.

  83. 83
    Richard 23 says:

    Here is a link to The Young Turks video stream. It is a Windows Media stream. It can be opened in Windows Media Player directly.

    Radiopower also carries streaming audio of the show.

    The story and interview starts now.

  84. 84
    Pooh says:

    yeah, if john kerry had called a retarded kid ‘corky’ i’m sure you’d just let it go. in fact, i think from now on i’m a call darrell ‘corky’. it just sounds right.

    Sold.

  85. 85
    jaime says:

    Obla Dee Obla Da Darrell goes on OHHHHHH

  86. 86
    ThymeZone says:

    i think from now on i’m a call darrell ‘corky’. it just sounds right.

    Done, and done. His new name is “Corky.”

    Chop, can you send me an email? See my url, first text upper left, for the addy.

  87. 87
    Nikki says:

    Critical-Thinking Skills 101

    A man says this…

    Israeli’s armed forces chief, Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, unwisely sold off $27,000 in stock when he heard that Hizbullah had captured 2 Israeli soldiers. That wasn’t unwise economically, since when Israel went to war, its stock market fell 12% It is further proof that the war was planned well in advance, and that Halutz knew that the capture would trigger it. But what could he have saved or made from this transaction? A few thousand dollars? It was stupid for him to risk the public perception of impropriety for such a small sum. Unprofessional.

    …and John Cole is able to devine anti-semitism. John provides no precedence to support his claim of anti-semitic behavior from the author, but he has no problem calling out this man’s racism:

    Juan’s only regret about this report is that it didn’t refer to Lt. Gen. Haluz as ‘money-grubbing jew.

    Another man says this…

    This fellow over here with the yellow shirt — Macaca or whatever his name is — he’s with my opponent. Let’s give a welcome to Macaca here. Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia.

    … and, even with John’s commenters helpfully pointing out this man’s history of this sort of thing–with links even!– John devines no racism coming from this speaker. Though John DOES acknowledge that this second man is obviously guilty of boorish behavior, nowhere in his post does he come close to branding THIS man as racist. Not even a hint of it.

    I am very hurt, John.

    I have enjoyed your blog, both the posts and the commentary. I initially came to your blog because I was looking for an honest conservative point of view. I know that at times you have stated things simply to get people’s goats up. I thought the Juan Cole post was one of those times. Apparently, I was wrong.

    Speaking as someone who has faced racism throughout her life, I recognize it when I see it. Perhaps I need to cut you some slack, you being a white male and all, maybe you tend to get your racism signals crossed. But truthfully, I don’t understand why you were able to so easily call Cole out as racist, but you can’t seem to bring yourself to do the same to Allen.

    Why is that? Is partisanship that important to you? Or are you truly unable to recognize racism?

    Do you find it that difficult to get outside of your comfort zone? Have you EVER been outside of it?

    John, I have respected your opinion in the past, but I just can’t get beyond this. Have I been wrong about you?

  88. 88
    Pooh says:

    Nikki, I think you’re being unfair, see John’s update where he says

    So I guess his past, and the fact that questions about his past exist, makes his statements not only indefensible, but dumber than I even previously thought. And I think Allen is a stooge.

    Ok, he didn’t use the magic “R” word, but why else would the comments be indefensible (especially when John came to the conclusion about the indefensibility in light of Allen’s previous racially-tinged incidents).

  89. 89
    Pooh says:

    Which is not to say that he wasn’t wrong in the Evil Twin Juan thread, but there is at least coherence in his position. Corky? Not so much.

  90. 90
    Steve says:

    I think the reluctance to use the magic “R” word, particularly in light of the absurdly over-the-top accusations against Juan Cole this morning, is kinda glaring. John can clarify, though.

  91. 91
    Richard 23 says:

    Sidarth was born in Fairfax County Virginia. George Allen comes from California. Rather than Allen welcoming Sidarth, an American, to America, it should have been Sidarth welcoming George Allen, a Californian, to Virginia.

    A Senator ridiculing an American citizen, a non-supporter from his bully pulpit, treating him like a foreigner, an outsider and as unwelcome was really brave. The Senator has power, Sidarth does not. What a tool.

    His love of the confederate flag, his noose and his insensitive remarks demonstrate what kind of person he is. A jerk.

    See wikipedia‘s entry for more.

    As to Darrell’s claim that wikipedia doesn’t define Macaque as a slur, try here, monkey boy.

  92. 92
    jaime says:

    As to Darrell’s claim that wikipedia doesn’t define Macaque as a slur, try here, monkey boy.

    Corky’s already been raked over the coals. His new spin is that 40-70% of the American people have to know that a word is a slur to have it ACTUALLY be a slur. Having it be in several ethnic slur dictionaries and used by skinheads means nothing.

  93. 93
    Steve says:

    I didn’t even get a chance to note how ridiculous it was for Darrell to say that 40-70 percent of Americans would know what “come mierda” means. I mean, this is the guy who constantly claims to know what “real Americans” are thinking, unlike us liberal elitists.

  94. 94
    Richard 23 says:

    40-70 percent of Americans

    What? You didn’t see that poll? You know the one I mean.

  95. 95
    Pooh says:

    What? You didn’t see that poll? You know the one I mean.

    I don’t have to tell you – http://google.com, buddy…

  96. 96
    John Cole says:

    Nikki-

    Let’s get some things clear here.

    First, I don’t know if Allen is racist or not. I do know that he seems to have a long standing infatuation with the confederacy, seems to be an ill-informed boob, have no sense of what is and is not appropriate, and at the very least, he seems to be wholly insensitive to matters regarding race. I would not dispute people who came to their own conclusions that he may be racist, but I don;t want to say he is when I don;t know of his personal interactions with those not of his race.

    Second, as I have stated repeatedly, I will never vote for the moron, support him, send him money, or, for that matter, I doubt I will ever have anything nice to say about him.

    Third, I have stated this pretty clearly, I don’t honestly know if Cole is anti-Semitic. I do know that he is VEHEMENTLY anti-Israel, willingly parrots anti-Israeli rhetoric at aevery opportunity, and, most germane to our discussion, runs in circles where there is, in fact, rampant anti-Semitism as well as rampant anti-zionism. Thus, his remarks, coupled with his past behavior and remarks (apparently it is up to me to fill you in on everything he has said in the past- as I have stated, it is well-documented, and I am not going to play your damned game), led me to believe that he seized upon this because he knew how it could be used, and would be used, by those who read him and travel in those circles.

    Now, you can disagree with me if you want on that assertion/belief. I am fine with that- in fact, I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, or I would have shut this site down a LONG time ago. I think I sense something with Juan Cole, and I think his past behavior and statements bear that out. But if you continue to sit around here and demand a response to everything every ten minutes, question my ability to think or do my job, or generally be a pain in the ass, you are not going to be welcome here long. I am not defending george Allen- I am atatcking him, yet you seem to think I am not attacking him enough, and therefore I am somehow a flawed human being.

    Are we clear, Nikki? Or do you need five-ten links to your previous statements so you can’t argue that you are not being an insufferable pain in the ass today?

    And btw- it is divine, not devine. If I cared to know what you did for a living, I would claim that your inability to spell means you can not do your job, as you have done to me all day long with your claims I am unable to think critically simply because I won’t play your games.

  97. 97
    Richard 23 says:

    Let’s start with the fact that it is divine, not devine.

    Glad you could way in on that important point!

  98. 98
    ThymeZone says:

    it is divine, not devine

    I dunno. Allen looks more than a little like Andy Devine.

    Discuss.

  99. 99
    Nikki says:

    Third, I have stated this pretty clearly, I don’t honestly know if Cole is anti-Semitic.

    No, you did not state that clearly at all. You implied, quite readily, that he was stereotyping by pointing out that a Jew had a conducted a questionable financial transaction, then defended that position throughout the entire thread. Granted, I haven’t been back lately to see if you have stated it more clearly, but if you haven’t, you might want to give that a try.

    Your reply to me appears to be a bit peeved, even angry. That’s fine. I hope I have touched a nerve. Perhaps now you can understand why I feel the way I do.

    If you feel you must ban me behind this, go right ahead. I have no problem with that. I just want to make sure that I understand exactly where you are coming from.

    And, Pooh, he implied racism with Cole, but gave no indication of it with Allen. That speaks volumns.

  100. 100
    John Cole says:

    Lol Richard- I am terrible with that, and I edited the comment before you got yours up.

    Alright- I am going off the net until tomorrow night, possibly.

    You all take care.

    And Nikki- I am not banning you for being a pain in my ass.

  101. 101
    Steve says:

    My God, John. You want to make statements like these:

    Juan Cole has an antagonistic attitdue towards Jews

    But what is sooo delicious about Juan Cole is that he siezes upon a report of someone making a personal financial transaction as ‘proof’ that this war was planned in advance. Because, you know, all Jews care about is money.

    this little report fits into Juan’s worldview about Jews

    Juan’s only regret about this report is that it didn’t refer to Lt. Gen. Haluz as ‘money-grubbing jew.’

    …and then sit here and tell us with a straight face that “I have stated this pretty clearly, I don’t honestly know if Cole is anti-Semitic”?

    You seem to be trying to argue “gee, I don’t know if he’s anti-semitic, maybe he just goes around peddling the most offensive stereotypes about Jews he can find to appeal to some unnamed anti-semitic people in whose circles he runs.” With all due respect, give me a break. You practically put him on trial at Nuremberg.

    Your statements, which I quoted above, leave absolutely no room for the idea that Juan Cole simply likes to pander to anti-semitic people without actually believing it himself. Absolutely no room.

    It’s amazing how accurately you can look into his heart and determine his motives, but gosh, we have no idea if George Allen is racist. It would be premature to jump to any conclusions.

    Is it even better or worse for Allen if he’s not racist, if he was merely playing to the crowd? Gosh, if you say he was just playing to the crowd, aren’t you insulting the good people of Virginia by implying they would respond to a racist appeal?

    I hope it remains your worst post ever, John, because I hate to think what you could do to top it.

  102. 102
    Nikki says:

    BTW, Juan Cole post made at 11:25. Point where I started to become your pain in the ass, by asking for examples of Cole’s anti-semitism: 2:40.

    And, for the record, I am a secretary.

  103. 103

    Whether or not he is a racist, Allen is definitely an asshole and a bully. From his sister:

    Jennifer wrote: “We all obeyed George. If we didn’t, we knew he would kill us. Once, when Bruce refused to go to bed, George hurled him through a sliding glass door. Another time, when Gregory refused to go to bed, George tackled him and broke his collarbone. Another time, when I refused to go to bed, George dragged me up the stairs by my hair.”

    Referring to George’s habit of terrorizing a Green Bay Packer fan in their neighborhood, Jennifer wrote that the fan’s mailbox often “lay smashed in the street, a casualty of my brothers’ drive-by to school in the morning. George would swerve his Mach II Mustang while Gregory held a baseball bat out the window to clear the mailbox off its post. . . . Lately, the Packers fan had resorted to stapling a Kleenex box to the mailbox post to receive his mail. George’s red Mustang screeched up beside us, the Packers fan’s Kleenex mailbox speared on the antenna.”

  104. 104
    CaseyL says:

    Allen’s a dumbfuck, with sadistic tendencies. That he’s also a racist is just the shit icing on a turd cake.

    I also think he’s rattled because he deep-sixed his White House hopes long before Sidarth arrived on the scene. He insulted Virginians and the Senate both by saying the job he currently has is boring, and he probably wasn’t expecting Webb to be a strong contender for the Senate seat. If he loses to Webb, he’ll be trying to run a successful campaign for national office right after his own voters in his own state show him the door.

    Near as I can tell, Allen’s only qualification for the Presidency is that he’s an even dumber, meaner version of George Bush. I doubt that’s gonna be what Americans are hungry for in 2008.

  105. 105
    John Cole says:

    Juan Cole is antagonistic towards jews- anytime a jew speaks out on a foreign policy decision he disagrees with, he calls them a Likudnik. He questioned Feith’s ability to put Amercia over the Jewish lobby. That is antagonism pure and center.

    I don’t know what motivates him to do it, but my guess is he has been driven mad by the Palestinian issue.

    Mybe I have overstated the cse and was unfair. I so, I was wrong. But I think he knew damned well what he was doing with that post, and he knows damned well how that story will play in the circles he is read.

    I hope it remains your worst post ever, John, because I hate to think what you could do to top it.

    If history is any judge, someone will be saying that again in about three months.

    Now, Iam really gone. I swear.

  106. 106
    Nikki says:

    It’s amazing how accurately you can look into his heart and determine his motives, but gosh, we have no idea if George Allen is racist. It would be premature to jump to any conclusions.

    Thank you, Steve.

  107. 107
    Nikki says:

    John, Likudnik is not a racial slur! That’s like me calling you a Libertarian or Republican. All you’ve proven is that Cole is antagonistic to the Likuds. Likuds =! Jews!

    However, for this…

    Mybe I have overstated the cse and was unfair. I so, I was wrong. But I think he knew damned well what he was doing with that post, and he knows damned well how that story will play in the circles he is read

    …I will end the debate. And I won’t even point out all your typos!

    G’night.

  108. 108
    John Cole says:

    You have to understand what Likudnik means to Juan Cole- it is more than just party.

  109. 109
    jaime says:

    He questioned Feith’s ability to put Amercia over the Jewish lobby

    Oh, how sad John, that you have been reduced to defending Douglas Feith, “The fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth.”

  110. 110
    Nikki says:

    You have to understand what Likudnik means to Juan Cole- it is more than just party.

    Until I see proof of that, I’m going to have to believe otherwise.

  111. 111
    John Cole says:

    Doug Feith is an ignorant fucktard, and I think there will be complete agreement here about that. But questioning his ability to do right by this government because he is Jewish and there fore beholden to israeli interests is what, exactly?

  112. 112
    Sam Hutcheson says:

    John,

    Leaving aside the fight du jour with Nikki, I too am interested in the hesitancy to lable Allen a racist, especially in light of your willingness to toss the anti-semitism bomb at the other Cole. I agree with you that there is often a disturbing subtext to a lot of Cole’s rhetoric, even when I agree with him politically. (I am not a big fan of Israeli actions in the region.) I say that to frame my question regarding Allen. If the subtext proves beyond reasonable doubt that Juan Cole is anti-semitic, certainly the subtext equally proves George Allen is a racist. I mean, who in _California_ sports confederate flags? Who _anywhere_ collects nooses? And who knowingly refers to a brown-skinned person as a monkey?

    I’m not terribly concerned with calling Juan Cole anti-semitic. There is a point where you can no longer split hairs just to save using such loaded terms. But at the same time, it is _at least equally clear_ (I would say more so, but that would just be me being argumentative) that George Allen is a racist, and an unrepentant one at that. And knowing as much, and knowing your general contempt for the man (per this post), why do you hesitate to use that term?

  113. 113
    Zifnab says:

    Doug Feith is an ignorant fucktard, and I think there will be complete agreement here about that. But questioning his ability to do right by this government because he is Jewish and there fore beholden to israeli interests is what, exactly?

    The important thing to remember in all this is that assholes transend all faiths, races, and ethnicities.

  114. 114
    Zifnab says:

    I too am interested in the hesitancy to lable Allen a racist, especially in light of your willingness to toss the anti-semitism bomb at the other Cole.

    John didn’t call Cole (um… Juan Cole… John Cole… this is all very dizzying) an anti-Semite, merely anti-Isreal. Likewise, he didn’t call Allen a racist, merely an asshole. Going whole hog into the “You hate person-type /X/” is a bigger step for some than others and frankly it is nice to see people not throwing the R-bomb at the drop of a hat.

    Maybe George Allen has lots of macaca friends and maybe Juan Cole goes to bed reading the Torah. John doesn’t know them personally, so he’s not making that call (if I’m reading you right). No reason to put his feet to the fire over it.

  115. 115
    Hyperion says:

    Zifnab: (sorry my formatting buttons are again AWOL)

    i agree that oCole did not call uCole an anti-semite.
    however, he did say this:

    “Juan’s only regret about this report is that it didn’t refer to Lt. Gen. Haluz as ‘money-grubbing jew.’”

    this is cheap shot and IMO reflects quite badly on oCole.

    moreover, someone who actually did have those regrets would in fact be an anti-semite.

  116. 116
    - F says:

    oowahhhhhhh!

    John sure is getting a whoopin tonight.

    I glad to see you people are beginning to relize that the enablers (John, Lieberman, Sullivan, etc.) are just as bad as the doers. Cheny, Bush, Allen and other of their ilk would not have been able to get away with all of their crap with out the so called “moderates” and “Libertarians” providing them with cover.

    Keep up the good work Nikki and others.

  117. 117

    Doug Feith is an ignorant fucktard, and I think there will be complete agreement here about that. But questioning his ability to do right by this government because he is Jewish and there fore beholden to israeli interests is what, exactly?

    Ok, now I’m with you on Juan Cole jumping to ignorant conclusions about Halutz proving a grand conspiracy.

    But questioning Douglas Feith’s commitment to the United States isn’t much of a stretch and certainly fair game given Feith’s past. Hell even the Bush administration got rid of him after Larry Franklin(who worked directly for Feith) got caught handing over state secrets to Israel, and the rumors are he was fired from Reagan’s NSC for doing something similar.

    It’s not becuse he is Jewish… It’s because of his history.

    Besides, it seems to me if Dick Cheney can say voting for Ned Lamont makes Osama bin Laden happy, that Juan Cole can claim Doug Feith is a tool of Israel.

  118. 118
    Pb says:

    Oh ye of little feith.

  119. 119
    ThymeZone says:

    So let me get this straight.

    The guy who insisted that Bill Bennett didn’t deliberately use a racially pointed hypothetical to make a point he could just as easily have made without one …. now insists that he can lecture us about who is anti-semitic and who is a racist?

    Did I miss a meeting? Is it not acceptable for me, and anyone here, to judge for himself what is racist, what is anti-semitic, what is cycnical trolling, and what is truthy as opposed to truth?

    We all need instruction in these things? Is that the contention? Because I reject it. I don’t need anyone here to explain any of this shit to me. And I am not so hard up for entertainment that I need the juvenile snarkitude that goes with it in order to distract me through the day.

    So why don’t you just cut the crap, John? You’re a bright guy with a relatively successful blog out here on the fringes of blahvonia. Really, is this Juan Cole shit the best you can do?

    I don’t know or care what Juan Cole thinks of Jews. I do know that he’s been the source of a hell of a lot more useful information about Iraq and the Middle East in the last four years than anyone around here has been, and I say that not even being a particular fan or even reader of his material.

  120. 120
    ThymeZone says:

    Oh, and one other thing: Whatever TOS says about this subject, especially if it goes anywhere near either Jews or Israel? I assume automatically that the oppposite is true. Just as I would do with Darrell. And for similar reasons.

    Is Doug Feith a “tool if Israel?” Can’t say. But I know damned well that a lot of people are, and that we’ve some toolicity right here on these pages. Anybody who wants to pretend that there isn’t “tool of Israel” thinking around and that it has fucked up peoples’ objectivity and ability to think critically about ME and Israel issues, is the same kind of liar who would insist that racism isn’t alive and well in this country. Again, a Darrell.

  121. 121
    Darrell says:

    Steve Says:

    Darrell sure nailed us by bringing up some Democrat no one has ever heard of

    Yeah, a former Dem Vice Presidential candidate in black face. “No one” has ever heard of Joe Lieberman Steve.

  122. 122
    Darrell says:

    Juan Cole is antagonistic towards jews- anytime a jew speaks out on a foreign policy decision he disagrees with, he calls them a Likudnik. He questioned Feith’s ability to put Amercia over the Jewish lobby. That is antagonism pure and center

    It’s more than that. Juan Cole accuses Israel of willful “ethnic cleansing” in Lebanon. Fucking ‘ethnic cleansing’ were his exact words. He accuses Israel of intentionally targetting civilians. The ahole even blames the murder of a US serviceman, murdered because he “looked jewish”… Juan Cole blames that all on Israel too. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck… Defend that piece of shit Juan Cole a little louder liberals, because I want average Americans to see what freaks you truly are.

  123. 123
    ThymeZone says:

    Doug Feith is an ignorant fucktard, and I think there will be complete agreement here about that. But questioning his ability to do right by this government because he is Jewish and there fore beholden to israeli interests is what, exactly?

    One can only wonder what motivates people to try to psychoanlyze the behavior of others. Why is Feith a blind fuck? Who knows? More importantly, who cares?

    Who cares why Dick Cheney is a blind fuck? Or why George Bush is a blind fuck? Or why Rumsfeld is a blind fuck? In Bush’s case, is it because he’s a pretend-born-again-Christian, or whatever it is? Can’t say. In Feith’s case, is he a Jew? Is that the reason, if he is? Can’t say. Don’t care.

    It’s actions and results that matter. Why has the US government sold itself down the river of apparent blind faith in and support of the asshole governments of Israel? I cannot answer, I don’t know. I only know that right now this country HAS no coherent Middle East policy, and looking back over my lifetime of reading the paper, which takes us to about 1954, I can’t find that it has ever had one. What I can find is that feckless stupidity, greed and short-sighted self-interest for fifty years have given us the enormous mountain of shit we find ourselves in today. And I for one am sick of listening to the shit merchants tell me what I am supposed to think about it.

  124. 124
    ThymeZone says:

    He accuses Israel of intentionally targetting civilians.

    And he is right. They did. Their protestations to the contrary were obvious blad-faced lies. They promulgated an air war that was classic modern-day mechanized terrorism, aimed at a political, not a military, purpose, just I like I said a month ago. They, like you, shrugged at the destruction of children in their sleep with sociopathic liars’ talking points which you repeated like a fucking parrot.

  125. 125
    ThymeZone says:

    Defend that piece of shit Juan Cole

    Keep defending the murder of children in their sleep, you piece of crap, because I will be here every day to hang it around your neck like an Olympic gold medal.

  126. 126
    DougJ says:

    Is “mongoloid shithead” in that dictionary, Darrell?

  127. 127
    Darrell says:

    lard lad Says:

    And guess what, Darrell: in my opinion, if this story is true, then the “state Senate leader” (whoever he might be) is an insulting, patronizing horse’s ass. Words like “cracker” are flat-out insulting, and politicians who sling them around for effect deserve a smackdown.

    lardass, do you see why someone might have a problem with you characterizing one term as an “ethnic slur”, but you choose to characterize the other more obvious slur, as merely an “insulting” phrase uttered by a “horse’s ass”. Not nearly the same weight as playing the race card, wouldn’t you agree? I call that dishonesty on your part.. you can call it whatever you want.

  128. 128
    Steve says:

    Yeah, a former Dem Vice Presidential candidate in black face. “No one” has ever heard of Joe Lieberman Steve.

    I was referring to that state senator or whoever the hell it was you brought up… as you’d acknowledge if you were being “honest,” but no, you just want to pop back in after everyone has gone to bed and try to make it look like you scored a point.

    As for the Jane Hamsher point, you were simply lying when you said that none of us had a problem with it, as you could easily determine by re-reading the pertinent thread.

  129. 129
    Zifnab says:

    Did I miss a meeting? Is it not acceptable for me, and anyone here, to judge for himself what is racist, what is anti-semitic, what is cycnical trolling, and what is truthy as opposed to truth?

    Dude. Take a deep breath and a chill pill. No one said you’re not allowed to call someone a racist. oCole is just saying he won’t call Allen a racist. Stop the hate.

    Seriously, this is what happens when you’ve got alot of normally sane people with no representation in government. They go batshit crazy over the silliest little things. Arguing the semantics of racism doesn’t win you friends, it just makes you look like a nitpicky smuck.

    Everyone here (with the exception of Darrel) agrees that George Allen’s comments were prickish at best and the pinacle of ignorant racism at worst. Basically, we all agree George Allen is a giant donkey turd. Why sweet the small stuff?

    By November, no one is going to remember exactly what Allen said or whether it meets the textbook definition of racism. But the folks in Virginia will remember that Allen did pick up some press coverage, and that he definitely sounded like a pompous jerk. That’s the line we need to send home. Allen is a dick. He’s shallow, he’s small-minded, and he’s not the type of guy you want representing your state in the Senate.

    oCole and company seem sold on that at least, so the job is done. Dust off your hands and call it a night. Take the victory and be happy.

  130. 130
    Darrell says:

    I was referring to that state senator or whoever the hell it was you brought up

    Were you? Because I specifically mentioned Lieberman by name in that very same post. Libs had no problem with Lieberman in blackface.. in fact many of you aholes cheered it on.

  131. 131
    ThymeZone says:

    Arguing the semantics of racism doesn’t win you friends, it just makes you look like a nitpicky smuck.

    Heh. If I thought “nitpicky schmuck” was the best I could do, I’d hang ’em up right now.

    I’m out to flay the Darrells of the world. Peel off their skin and turn it into pork rinds. Then boil the meat down for pet food, and grind the bones into dust.

    I’m not out to just annoy them. I am out to extinguish them. Drain their rhetorical blood and feed it to the leeches.

  132. 132
    DougJ says:

    One thing I do think is true here is that while it goes to Allen being racist (he knows what Macaca means, having a Tunisian mother), I don’t blame the audience who surely thought “macaca” was just a funny word.

  133. 133
    ThymeZone says:

    One thing I do think is true here is that while it goes to Allen being racist (he knows what Macaca means, having a Tunisian mother), I don’t blame the audience who surely thought “macaca” was just a funny word.

    Well, as a guy who appreciates good spoof, you have to admire this:

    Allen’s people were telling the media today that “macaca” was a munge of “mohawk” and “caca” in an attempt to call the videographer a “craphead.”

    According to two Republicans who heard the word used, “macaca” was a mash-up of “Mohawk,” referring to Sidarth’s distinctive hair, and “caca,” Spanish slang for excrement, or “shit.”

    Said one Republican close to the campaign: “In other words, he was a shit-head, an annoyance.” Allen, according to Republicans, heard members of his traveling entourage and Virginia Republicans use the phrase and picked it up.

    Wonkette … but it was all over MSM today, I heard it on both CNN and MSNBC.

    Apparently Allen has hired Darrell to do his damage control on this one.

  134. 134
    Zifnab says:

    I’m out to flay the Darrells of the world. Peel off their skin and turn it into pork rinds. Then boil the meat down for pet food, and grind the bones into dust.

    I’m not out to just annoy them. I am out to extinguish them. Drain their rhetorical blood and feed it to the leeches.

    You’re picking up too many civilian causalties. Namely, the rest of the readership. Stop feeding the Darrel. He’s like a bear and arguements are like picnic baskets. Like an Ann Coulter or a Michael Savage, he cannot be stopped by logic or reason. The only way to defeat a Darrel is to just stop giving him stuff to fight about. The hard way is to back him into a corner with information until he can’t get out without sounding like a liberal or directly contradicting himself. The easy way is to just stop addressing his stupidity.

    Do anything else and you’re only hurting yourself.

    Just fair warning.

  135. 135
    Darrell says:

    The hard way is to back him into a corner with information until he can’t get out without sounding like a liberal or directly contradicting himself

    I welcome you to try halfwit

  136. 136
    ThymeZone says:

    you’re only hurting yourself.

    Well, I’ll tip my cap for the friendly advice, but I’m afraid I won’t be taking it.

    If you want to know more, feel free to email me at the address in plain view, more or less.

    Short version: I’m not out to defeat Darrell. It’s not a contest. It’s more like turning him into food. Think of it as food preparation.

    This is a kitchen, not a book club. To coin a phrase.

  137. 137
    Andrew says:

    Did you guys ever think that our Senator here is actually a different Senator?

    I think Darrell is Allen. Look at the names! FOUR LETTERS ARE THE SAME. Proof enough for me.

    It doesn’t surprise me that Darrell/Allen was cribbing lines for Cornyn. Well, or Rove hands out the same notes to everyone.

  138. 138
    ThymeZone says:

    The hard way is to back him into a corner with information

    Um, no. Darrell has no capacity to recognize information that is contrary to what he already thinks.

    What you do with a Darrell is convert him into fuel.

  139. 139
    Darrell says:

    If you want to know more, feel free to email me at the address in plain view, more or less

    ppgaz is always inviting people to email him.. I heard he puts you on a spam list afterwards and then stalks you asking to loan him money for his startup internet company. Sad, really..

  140. 140
    ThymeZone says:

    I heard he puts you on a spam list afterwards

    You’re on a list alright, Darrell. Count on it.

  141. 141
    ThymeZone says:

    ppgaz is always inviting people to email him

    You’ll notice that I’m a little choosey. Have you gotten your invitation yet?

  142. 142
    ThymeZone says:

    The jihadists and the neocons are brothers in spirit: both conjure the prospect of eternal war, and both, in their own distinctive and yet eerily similar ways, glory in the fighting of it. We are all of us caught between them, innocent civilians – and potential collateral damage.

    That’s Raimondo.

    Just replace “neocons” with “Darrell” and you have Corky’s reason for being here in a nutshell.

  143. 143
    Vladi G says:

    I think Darrell is Allen. Look at the names! FOUR LETTERS ARE THE SAME. Proof enough for me.

    Nah, Darrell’s a lot stupider than Allen. And he’s a serial liar.

  144. 144
    Pb says:

    ppgaz is always inviting people to email him

    You’ll notice that I’m a little choosey.

    Not really–don’t you have a standing invitation for Par R. to email you or something? I take it he hasn’t taken you up on it yet…

  145. 145
    Perry Como says:

    You’ll notice that I’m a little choosey. Have you gotten your invitation yet?

    Whatever happened with that scs callout? Did s/he take the sucker bet?

  146. 146
    scs says:

    You know, it’s funny in American politics that we go through this pretty regularly. Every few months, some pol says something that is a little, or grossly, racially offensive and the media and pundits and bloggers go nuts, often ending that pol’s career.

    But let’s be honest, these comments of shock and outrage are a bit theatrical, aren’t they? Practically every person I know or have met uses different degrees of racial remarks in normal life. Even people you come into contact casually. You’ve got your blue collar types, such as contractors or car mechanics, who are openly racist with their humour. Then you get some professional types, such as realtors, who warn you about the ‘type’ of tenants who live in a certain area, code words for non-white, and not to look there to buy. Even some of the supposedly ultra lib types will ask when they come to visit you, where the “unsafe” areas are, which everyone knows is code for the minority areas.

    Let’s face it, racist, or para-racist language, is an everyday part of American life. Why do we pretend such shock then when a politician uses it? It’s almost like a charade we go through every few months to see who can act the most offended.

  147. 147
    scs says:

    Whatever happened with that scs callout? Did s/he take the sucker bet?

    If I wasn’t sucker enough to fall for your Scrutator stunt, I ain’t sucker enough for that one.

  148. 148
    Perry Como says:

    Prescient.

  149. 149
    Perry Como says:

    Could scs be a figment of my own imagination? Who is DougJ?

  150. 150
    scs says:

    See you are obsessed with DougJ. Why is that?

  151. 151
    scs says:

    So Perry, what’s your favorite song?

  152. 152

    Umm.. I’m pretty sure it’s you that’s obsessed with the commenters here and not their arguments scs.

  153. 153
    scs says:

    TnT- you are busted! Suddenly appearing on a DJ discussion. I was also noticing your prepositionless writing style previously. You cannot write a subordinate clause to save your life man. Maybe you should practice.

    Anyway, don’t worry your secret’s safe with me.

  154. 154
    Pb says:

    Hahah, awesome–now scs is convinced that DougJ has posting powers on Balloon Juice–the circle is complete!

  155. 155
    Perry Como says:

    scs, you are either a great troll or the most neurotic person I’ve ever had the displeasure to deal with. Either way, bravo.

  156. 156
    scs says:

    the circle is complete!

    Damn. It sure is. I have to admire your evil genius plans though. Maybe you can DougJ yourself into the Presidency someday. You gotta dream big you know.

  157. 157

    Scs;
    I did it to watch your conspiracy circuits kick in. It’s like a backfire on the highway — you can hear it for miles. I must give you props for debating my writing style rather than solely my identity though.
    Generally you don’t repeatedly accuse someone of something if you are keeping it a secret, BTW. And yes, my secret is safe because you accuse every single commenter of being the same guy. So of course not a soul would believe you even if you were to tell your “secret.”

  158. 158
    scs says:

    So, does it irritate you that I keep trying to get you on this, or do you enjoy the fact that at least one person is getting it and noticing your fine handywork?

  159. 159
    scs says:

    So of course not a soul would believe you even if you were to tell your “secret.”

    We know that by now. Most of the other posters on here, who aren’t you, the other maybe 25%, aren’t that swift, are they? But at least I know. And that’s good enough.

  160. 160
    Perry Como says:

    scs Says:

    So Perry, what’s your favorite song?

    Here’s a good question that we start a conversation from (and avoid your paranoia). Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square.

  161. 161
    scs says:

    Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square

    Is that a Perry song? I only know the Perry song from that movie, god with the actor from Encino Man, where he was in a bomb shelter for 30 years…. you know which I mean?Anyway, it was called something like ‘on the street where your lover lives’. Just an FYI.

  162. 162
    Perry Como says:

    Just an FYI.

    Just an FYI: if you can’t be bothered to look up a classic song that you don’t know, don’t try to denigrate it by comparing it to irrelevant pop culture crap.

  163. 163
    scs says:

    No man, the actor sang an actual Perry Como song in the movie. It wasn’t pop culture crap. Maybe the movie was, but not the song. Geez, calm down Perry!

  164. 164
    Perry Como says:

    Geez, calm down Perry!

    The topic was my favorite song. You brought up some unrelated pop culture crap. So is “A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square” the best song ever, or do you love the terrorists?

  165. 165
    scs says:

    So is “A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square” the best song ever, or do you love the terrorists?

    Neither. I heart DougJ!

  166. 166
    Perry Como says:

    Neither. I heart DougJ!

    If you only knew.

  167. 167
    scs says:

    If you only knew.

    I don’t think I wanna know.

  168. 168
    Perry Como says:

    I don’t think I wanna know.

    Sure you do. There’s still a $ offer out there. Take it up.

  169. 169
    scs says:

    Sorry man, I’m obsessed with you to the amount of maybe $5.00. Not $10,000. You ain’t all that great.

  170. 170
    scs says:

    Man that was fun Perry. But off to listen to my fav song- On the street where you lover lives.

  171. 171
    Perry Como says:

    Sorry man, I’m obsessed with you to the amount of maybe $5.00. Not $10,000. You ain’t all that great.

    Aww. The confidence is failing. Time to readjust your world view.

    If you ever want to make that $10k bet again, I’ll take you up on it.

  172. 172
    lard lad says:

    lard lad Says:

    And guess what, Darrell: in my opinion, if this story is true, then the “state Senate leader” (whoever he might be) is an insulting, patronizing horse’s ass. Words like “cracker” are flat-out insulting, and politicians who sling them around for effect deserve a smackdown.

    lardass, do you see why someone might have a problem with you characterizing one term as an “ethnic slur”, but you choose to characterize the other more obvious slur, as merely an “insulting” phrase uttered by a “horse’s ass”. Not nearly the same weight as playing the race card, wouldn’t you agree? I call that dishonesty on your part.. you can call it whatever you want.

    Same to you with interest. I did not call “cracker” an ethnic slur, because I consider it more of an class-based insult. The words “cracker” and “macaca” are equally annoying in my book, and your attempt to claim otherwise is bullshit.

    Considering that your whole thrust in this thread has been a flopsweat-laden defense of Allen, your accusations of hypocrisy are as laughable as they are disgusting.

  173. 173
    lard lad says:

    Funny how, whenever you call a right-winger on racist crap, they always rejoinder by accusing you of “playing the race card.”

    New rule: anyone who employs that phrase without intending a joke is an asshole. Put it next to Godwin’s Law.

  174. 174

    Ok, that’s just too convenient. Someone saying something about scs, and her drunkeness shows up in the thread.

    scs has got to be DougJ’s greatest spoof ever!

  175. 175
    chopper says:

    “corky’s law”

  176. 176
    John S. says:

    Someone saying something about scs, and her drunkeness shows up in the thread.

    Damn, and I missed her travelling carnival.

    I’m still waiting for her to provide the names of ALL those Democrats that have accused Rove of treason.

  177. 177
    Richard 23 says:

    Off topic, but I just heard a Bush speech excerpt on the radio. He said if we leave Iraq the terrorists will follow us home.

    “If we leave [Iraq] before the mission is complete, if we withdraw, the enemy will follow us home,” he said.

    So what the fuck are “they” now? A cute little lost puppy?

    And did anyone else hear Mehlman float that trial balloon that it’s no longer “stay the course” but “adapt and win?”

    Wow the PR is really convincing.

  178. 178
    chopper says:

    what’s really convincing PR is how the allen campaign now says that he didn’t intend to hurl a racial slur at a minority in a public stump speech, but rather intended to call him ‘sh1thead’.

    in public, at a stump speech. ‘hey sh1thead, welcome to america.’

    yeah, that’s way better. whew, you really dodged a bullet there, george. mmmmm, that’s good spin.

  179. 179

    Wasn’t macaca a kind of dance people used to do between innings at baseball stadiums when they were really drunk?

  180. 180
    Steve says:

    “If we leave [Iraq] before the mission is complete, if we withdraw, the enemy will follow us home,” he said.

    Yes, there are people who literally believe that the same bad guys who are committing acts of violence in Iraq would be attacking us in America if we hadn’t cleverly distracted them into going after our soldiers in Iraq instead.

    This is mainstream opinion on the right.

    Speaking of bad guys, I like that they seem to be attracted to Iraq as a place to come and visit violence on we Americans. We have fine American fighting men and women in Iraq who can shoot them in the face. This is, on balance, preferable to them coming to Hoboken to blow up shopping malls and then lawyering up.

    And these are the people who are supposedly “serious” about foreign policy. My God.

  181. 181
    ThymeZone says:

    Speaking of bad guys, I like that they seem to be attracted to Iraq as a place to come and visit violence

    This is a child of the popular “bring it on ” meme from a few years ago.

    The Iraqi people must be both flattered and honored that a great country like America would pick their homeland as a place to stage this rumble.

    Sure, the average Iraqi mother can’t go out and buy groceries without fear of being killed or kidnapped, but at least she knows that she is being lovingly used as a piece of flypaper by an American mom, her counterpart, over here.

  182. 182
    mrmobi says:

    On a lighter note, remember, “Macaca is next to DaPeePee.”

    Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are crazy funny right now.

    Must keep laughing.
    Who’s Corky? And what is his law?

  183. 183
    mrmobi says:

    Oh, ok, I just got the Corky thing, but you guys need to get the full name correct.

    It’s Gruppenfuhrer Meshuggena Mamzer Nudnik Corky.

    This translates to “General Crazy Bastard Pain in the Neck Corky.”

    Now that is the whole megillah.

  184. 184
    Darrell says:

    And these are the people who are supposedly “serious” about foreign policy. My God.

    What’s interesting about Steve is that he so frequently feel compelled to take a valid conservative point, albeit controversial, and then loftily mock it without saying anything about why, as if it’s ‘obviously’ wrongheaded.. no explanation neeeded.

    The idea that terrorist nutballs would be attracted to fight US troops on “muslim soil” is entirely reasonable, and more importantly, it has actually happened. It is in point of fact, a legitimate tactic, to have them fight armed and trained troops there, rather than come to the US to do terrorism here. You want to debate the tactic, fine.. but why do leftist idiots feel that valid idea must be dismissed out of hand? Without explanation why it must be dismissed. Nothing. That tendency of leftists, to not think for themselves or even attempt to refute valid alternative opinions, is kind of ironic, coming from a group of aholes who go around calling themselves the ‘reality based’ community.

  185. 185
    Steve says:

    It is in point of fact, a legitimate tactic, to have them fight armed and trained troops there, rather than come to the US to do terrorism here.

    I do, in fact, believe that this argument mocks itself.

  186. 186
    mrmobi says:

    Gruppenfuhrer Meshuggena Mamzer Nudnik Corky:

    The idea that terrorist nutballs would be attracted to fight US troops on “muslim soil” is entirely reasonable, and more importantly, it has actually happened. It is in point of fact, a legitimate tactic, to have them fight armed and trained troops there, rather than come to the US to do terrorism here.

    The big problem with this “legitimate tactic” as you call it, is that we have a couple of natural barriers that prevent terrorist nutballs from having easy access to our country. They are called, in the reality-based community, the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, respectively. So your “tactic” doesn’t hold water, assuming that we have adequate airline security (at this point, maybe a big assumption).

    Of course there is Canada to the North. Krista does not want to harm us, and they have, what, three dozen muslims? And it’s too cold there, muslims like heat and lots of sand, take it from me.

    Mexico and muslims, not so much.

    What we’ve really done is go over and whacked an ineffectual hornets nest that was surrounded by a bunch of Islamist killer bees.
    Strategery, pure and simple.

  187. 187
    Darrell says:

    Of course there is Canada to the North. Krista does not want to harm us, and they have, what, three dozen muslims?

    Well then, I guess since 17 out of that ‘total of three dozen Canadian muslims’ have been caught in a terrorist bomb plot a couple of months ago, we can rest easy now. It’s sad really, how so many on the left are so ignorant about even the most basics elements of the debate.. yet they hold these firm opinions and go around slapping each other on the back about how ‘reality based’ they are, as if they have a clue.

    Mexico and muslims, not so much.

    You’re right, islamic terrorists could NEVER fly into Mexico and sneak across the border [/leftist whackjob]

  188. 188
    Darrell says:

    Yes, there are people who literally believe that the same bad guys who are committing acts of violence in Iraq would be attacking us in America if we hadn’t cleverly distracted them into going after our soldiers in Iraq instead.

    In case you forgot, Afghanistan too. Perhaps the reality based community hasn’t yet received the memo that islamofascist terrorists aren’t thrilled with infidel soldiers on ‘muslim soil’, and have flocked from all parts to fight the infidel devils in the middle east. It appears this is controversial ‘news’ among enlightened liberals.

  189. 189

    “If we leave [Iraq] before the mission is complete, if we withdraw, the enemy will follow us home,” he said.

    I have an idea. Stay with me here, I know it’s radical, but…

    I say we don’t leave a trail of popcorn for them to follow.

  190. 190
    Perry Como says:

    This is, on balance, preferable to them coming to Hoboken to blow up shopping malls and then lawyering up.

    Umm, there aren’t any shopping malls in Hoboken that I can think of. Details people, details.

  191. 191
    Darrell says:

    Umm, there aren’t any shopping malls in Hoboken that I can think of. Details people, details.

    Lots of good bars though

  192. 192
    Perry Como says:

    Lots of good bars though

    Indeed. Alot of good restaurants too. I suggest Karma Cafe or India on the Hudson if you are a fan of Indian food. The bonus being terrorists are scared of a good vindaloo.

  193. 193
    Darrell says:

    I suggest Karma Cafe or India on the Hudson if you are a fan of Indian food

    Thanks for the tip, I’m a huge Indian food fan. I think one of the most underrated Indian food restaurants in the NYC area btw, is ‘Curry in a Hurry’. I know it’s inexpensive, but the food there is wonderful. That, and that shwarma/falafel joint on McDougal St in the city.. Mamoons (sp?). Not fancy, but great food, and a cool place to soak up atmosphere in the city

  194. 194
    Perry Como says:

    I think one of the most underrated Indian food restaurants in the NYC area btw, is ‘Curry in a Hurry’. I know it’s inexpensive, but the food there is wonderful.

    I’ll have to check that out. Thanks.

    That, and that shwarma/falafel joint on McDougal St in the city.. Mamoons (sp?). Not fancy, but great food, and a cool place to soak up atmosphere in the city

    Mamoun’s. My wife spent her college years there (NYU staple). On the other side of the river the nephew (I think, but they are somehow realted) of the guy that owns Mamoun’s opened his own place and it’s as good or better, Ibby’s Falafel. It’s a block down from the Grove St. PATH station. The atmosphere isn’t as good, but it’s tough to beat the NYU area for Saturday afternoons. Especially during the summer.

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    John Cole says:

    I wish there was Thai food where I lived- other than Mexican, Thai is my favorite.

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