Paging Tommy Franks

We now have six retired Generals who think for whatever reason that Rummy should find a new line of work.

Maj. Gen. Charles H. Swannack Jr., 82nd Airborne:

“We need to continue to fight the global war on terror and keep it off our shores,” General Swannack said in a telephone interview. “But I do not believe Secretary Rumsfeld is the right person to fight that war based on his absolute failures in managing the war against Saddam in Iraq.”


Maj. Gen. John Riggs
:

General Riggs told National Public Radio that Mr Rumsfeld had instilled a culture of arrogance among the civilian administrators of the war.

“They only need the military advice when it satisfies their agenda. I think that’s a mistake, and that’s why I think he should resign.”

Compare these statements with what the previous four retired generals actually said:

Maj. Gen. John Batiste, First Infantry:

“He went to war with a flawed plan. He didn’t account for the hard work to build the peace after we took down the regime.”

…”We also served under a secretary of defense who didn’t understand leadership, who was abusive, who was arrogant, who didn’t build a strong team.”


Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold
:

With the encouragement of some still in positions of military leadership, I offer a challenge to those still in uniform: a leader’s responsibility is to give voice to those who can’t–or don’t have the opportunity to–speak.

…What we are living with now is the consequences of successive policy failures. Some of the missteps include: the distortion of intelligence in the buildup to the war, McNamara-like micromanagement that kept our forces from having enough resources to do the job, the failure to retain and reconstitute the Iraqi military in time to help quell civil disorder, the initial denial that an insurgency was the heart of the opposition to occupation, alienation of allies who could have helped in a more robust way to rebuild Iraq, and the continuing failure of the other agencies of our government to commit assets to the same degree as the Defense Department. My sincere view is that the commitment of our forces to this fight was done with a casualness and swagger that are the special province of those who have never had to execute these missions–or bury the results.

Army Maj. Gen. Paul D. Eaton:

In sum, he has shown himself incompetent strategically, operationally and tactically, and is far more than anyone else responsible for what has happened to our important mission in Iraq. Mr. Rumsfeld must step down.

In the five years Mr. Rumsfeld has presided over the Pentagon, I have seen a climate of groupthink become dominant and a growing reluctance by experienced military men and civilians to challenge the notions of the senior leadership.

…Mr. Rumsfeld has put the Pentagon at the mercy of his ego, his cold warrior’s view of the world and his unrealistic confidence in technology to replace manpower.

Anthony Zinni:

In remarks on Sunday on the NBC program “Meet the Press,” Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, a former commander of Central Command for the Middle East, said Rumsfeld, among others, should be held accountable for tactical mistakes in Iraq.

Asked who should resign, Zinni said, “Secretary of Defense, to begin with,” adding that resignations should also come from others responsible for planning the war effort and military officials who sat by without pointing out potential problems.

It honestly surprises me that nobody has offered to step up in Rummy’s defense. Is Tommy Franks really that busy? In a pinch they can always retire Lt. Gen. William Boykin.






217 replies
  1. 1
    Mr Furious says:

    Bah. What do those guys know, anyway…?

  2. 2
    Marcus Wellby says:

    It’s about time that these American Hating Liberal Islamofascist Pinko Generals went back to Russia!

  3. 3
  4. 4
    Steve says:

    I’m pretty sure they already found at least one general to speak out in defense of Rumsfeld.

  5. 5
    Leo says:

    A constructive reason to let go of Rumsfeld is that the new guy wouldn’t have to apologize for any past mistakes/misjudgements. Further, any assumtions Rumsfeld had made (like we don’t need a large occupying force) can be reexamined publicly without personal or professional embarassment. A new SecDef could communicate what we are doing and why that will probably work in Iraq, with a great deal more credibility. The credibility comes from being able to critisize an previous mistakes/misjudgements.

  6. 6

    Any group that is so rigid and immune from self-examination is not going to dump a good soldier who’s been following his orders and whistling the designated happy tune. Would they?

  7. 7
    Broken says:

    These generals inappropriately coming forward to criticize Sec Rumsfeld gives aid and comfort to the enemy. Notice how none of them were critics while they were in the military.

    Thankfully, the fine officers still serving our resolute Secretary of Defence have nothing to do with this unpatriotic behaviour at the expense of the USA. They are just interested in promoting their book deals and getting back at Rumsfeld for his revolutionary new ideas for modernizing our hidebound military. They will reveal their true colors when they all run for office as Democrats.

    They are just as bad as Wesley Clark, John Murtha, David Hackworth, Joe Wilson, Richard Clarke, and such back-stabbers as Gingrich, Fukayama, George Will and other so-called “conservatives”.

  8. 8
    82ndAbnVet says:

    I think Rummy’s extreme incompetence and poor decision making are giving far more ‘aid and comfort’ to the enemy than anything these Generals could say

  9. 9
    Broken says:

    Update from the Washington Post ( David Ignatius):

    When I recently asked an Army officer with extensive Iraq combat experience how many of his colleagues wanted Rumsfeld out, he guessed 75 percent. Based on my own conversations with senior officers over the past three years, I suspect that figure may be low.

    It looks like it is time for Rumsfeld to clean house in the officer corps and demand that this sorry lot tender their resignations. They can all go run for Congress as Democrats as far as I’m concerned. Losers.

  10. 10
    Blue Neponset says:

    Chairman of the Joint Cheifs of Staff, General Peter Pace stood right up to defend his boss.

    “He does his homework. He works weekends. He works nights,” Gen. Peter Pace said. “People can question my judgment or his judgment, but they should never question the dedication, the patriotism and the work ethic of Secretary Rumsfeld.”

    I laughed out loud at the “He works weekends’. He works nights” comment when I heard it on NPR yesterday. I work weekends and nights too does that mean I am qualified to be Sec Def?

  11. 11
    Mr Furious says:

    “Dedication, patriotism and work ethic” are not the sole qualifications for the job. At some point I’d like to think intuition, intelligence judgement and competence might enter the equation. Something even his defenders cannot, it seems, come up with on his behalf.

  12. 12
    tBone says:

    “People can question my judgment or his judgment, but they should never question the dedication, the patriotism and the work ethic of Secretary Rumsfeld.”

    Translation: “Secretary Rumsfeld has put in countless hours fucking up everything he touches.”

  13. 13
    KC says:

    Well, it’s nice that they’re making their voices heard. Day late and a dollar short though. Moreover, isn’t anyone who replaces Rumsfeld going to be limited to doing what the president wants him to do?

  14. 14
    don surber says:

    So now the left OPPOSES civilian control of the military. Interesting development …

    McClellan didn’t like Lincoln. So in reply to Mr. Furious:

    Pfffbt!

    With all due respect, sir

  15. 15
    db says:

    Junior needs to do some splainin’

    He was telling us that he lets military decisions be made by the commanders “on the ground”.

    Wait, wait – these generals are obviously making this up… ahh, the universe is back in balance and I can retreat back to my happy place.

  16. 16
    Punchy says:

    Is Boykin that clown that Faux News keeps parading up on their “news” broadcasts?

  17. 17
    tBone says:

    So now the left OPPOSES civilian control of the military. Interesting development …

    No, “The Left” opposes incompetent civilian control of the military.

  18. 18
    nyrev says:

    I laughed out loud at the “He works weekends’. He works nights” comment when I heard it on NPR yesterday. I work weekends and nights too does that mean I am qualified to be Sec Def?

    That depends. What do you know about Arabian horses?

  19. 19
    carpeicthus says:

    No, Don, you’re right — we’d be much better off if the civilian command were fired. But you go with what you can get.

  20. 20
    Mr Furious says:

    Bite me Don.

    I never said anything about abolishing civilian control of the military. And no one else has either. Just because I’d sooner let my daughter run the Pentagon then leave Rumsfeld in his position, does not mean I want a coup d’etat.

  21. 21
    Brian says:

    Tim, check it out! There are two more who have come forward demanding Rummy’s resignation:

    Captain Wilton Parmenter

    and

    Major Anthony Nelson

    We could have settled for these two powerhouses and done away with hacks like Zinni, but never mind.

    Let’s ROLL!

  22. 22
    Broken says:

    Maybe Rummy can swap places with Condi at State. He did such an excellent job with his pre-war diplomatic efforts. He got the “Old Europeans” right on board, he did. Rumsfeld has a rare understanding of the true essence of diplomacy: he talks, you shut-up and listen.

  23. 23
    Vladi G says:

    So now the left OPPOSES civilian control of the military.

    I must have missed the part where Rumsfeld is the only civilian in the entire country.

    Don, are you really this stupid?

  24. 24
    StupidityRules says:

    “He does his homework. He works weekends. He works nights,” Gen. Peter Pace said. “People can question my judgment or his judgment, but they should never question the dedication, the patriotism and the work ethic of Secretary Rumsfeld.”

    Isn’t that a veiled comment about George W Bush?

  25. 25
    Brian says:

    “The Left” opposes incompetent civilian control of the military

    There’s that word you folks love using so much: incompetent

    I think I can speak for many centrists and conservatives by saying that it seems Howard Dean, Cindy Sheehan, and John Kerry have been whispering into your ears while you’re sleeping. You’re parroting their talking points, and you’re not particularly qualified to judge competence, seeing how you’ve done at the ballot box.

  26. 26
    capelza says:

    Brian…please, get new material.

  27. 27
    tBone says:

    think I can speak for many centrists and conservatives

    I’m a centrist, and you sure as hell don’t speak for me.

  28. 28
    Perry Como says:

    Jeez, Rove is going to have his hands full:

    CENTCOM Veterans for Truth
    Secretary of the Army Veterans for Truth
    Iraq War Generals for Truth

    Did you know that Major General Batiste said he was in Iraq on Christmas when he actually had one foot in Kuwait? And did your know that Major General Swannack was on the ground while he was leading the 82nd Airborne? Why would the leader of an airborne division stay on the ground, unless he’s a coward?

    And then you have Democratic nutcases like Zinni. How dare he say that the US made strategic errors? Everyone knows the strategy was fine, the errors that were made were tactical. You know, errors made by the troops, not the civilian leadership. Ask Condi.

  29. 29
    Mr Furious says:

    Brian, please give us some examples of Rumsfeld’s supposed “competence.”

    Maybe we love using the word “incompetence” so much because it just keeps coming up with these fucking clowns. Don’t shoot the messenger…

  30. 30
    Blue Neponset says:

    There’s that word you folks love using so much: incompetent

    Hi Brian,

    Here is some practice for your upcoming SAT’s.

    Competent is to Rumsfeld as Qualified is to:

    a) John Snow

    b) Michael Brown

    c) Micheal Chertoff

    d) All of the above

    See answer below
    |
    |
    |
    |
    |
    |
    |
    |

    The answer is d) All of the above

  31. 31
    ppGaz says:

    I think I can speak for many centrists and conservatives

    Heh. Obviously you have not finished your spoof training.

  32. 32
    Matt says:

    Greg at Belgravia Dispatch had a good take on this the other day,
    and the commenter Britt (scroll down had a nice take)
    http://www.belgraviadispatch.c.....l#comments
    For Bush it’s Rummy can’t live with em, can’t do without him.

  33. 33
    Brian says:

    Brian, please give us some examples of Rumsfeld’s supposed “competence.”

    You miss the point altogether. Which is, that you have these reactions, like Pavlov’s dog, when you think of anyone in this administration, you bark: “incompetent”, “liar”, “fuck up”.

    It’s all noise to most clear-thinking realists, because it lacks any depth or critical thought. It’s just hyper-critical.

  34. 34
    tBone says:

    It’s all noise to most clear-thinking realists, because it lacks any depth or critical thought.

    Pot, meet kettle.

  35. 35
    The Left says:

    Dammit! I wish the Left-Phone would stop ringing! Tell them “no comment!”

  36. 36
    John S. says:

    You miss the point altogether. Which is, that you have these reactions, like Pavlov’s dog, when you think of anyone in this administration, you bark: “incompetent”, “liar”, “fuck up”.

    No little Brian, you miss the point altogether.

    When people in the administration are incompetent, lie and fuck up it is perfectly acceptable to call them “incompetent”, “liar” or “fuck up”. What is not acceptable is to pretend like their shortcomings are the fault of those capable of identifying them.

  37. 37
    Broken says:

    Brian Says:

    It’s all noise to most clear-thinking realists, because it lacks any depth or critical thought. It’s just hyper-critical.

    Yup. Any CLEAR-THINKING REALIST would KNOW by divine gut-instinct and ideological certainty that any criticism of this Administration’s execution of the war, in a time of WAR for God’s sake, lacks ANY critical thought.

  38. 38
    ppGaz says:

    you have these reactions, like Pavlov’s dog

    It’s a rational reaction, Brian. When you’ve been lied to and told things that turn out to be wrong over and over and over again, when you see that the players don’t seem to know what they are doing, over and over and over again, then you assume that they are wrong, or lying, until you have reason to believe otherwise.

    Facing that scenario and assuming that they are right, and telling the truth, is not a rational response. It’s a mentally ill response, actually.

    These people ARE liars, they ARE fuckups, they ARE wrong. They’ve been wrong about Iraq, for example, for THIRTY FUCKING YEARS, Brian. When do you catch on?

  39. 39
    Broken says:

    Rummy’s now calling Marine General Newbold more or less a liar.

    NewBold:

    After 9/11, I was a witness and therefore a party to the actions that led us to the invasion of Iraq–an unnecessary war. Inside the military family, I made no secret of my view that the zealots’ rationale for war made no sense. And I think I was outspoken enough to make those senior to me uncomfortable.

    Rumsfeld:

    Q: You did mention General Newbold’s name. And in response, you were saying, sir, that General Newbold never raised any objections or —

    SEC. RUMSFELD: Not to my knowledge, no. […]

    SEC. RUMSFELD: No, I just — he just didn’t. Plenty people did, and I did, lots of people did, and talked about it…but in terms of why he would come up with this now, I just can’t speak to that.

    Oh, and Condi is an idiot for saying that many “tactical errors” were made.

  40. 40
    Davebo says:

    One would think there would be dozens of Generals and Admirals leaping to Rummy’s defense.

    Since Rummy himself had to recommend to congress every single general or admiral that has been promoted over the past five years.

  41. 41
    Davebo says:

    but in terms of why he would come up with this now, I just can’t speak to that.

    Let me guess. There must be an “ongoing investigation” or something.

  42. 42
    ppGaz says:

    There must be an “ongoing investigation” or something.

    I think it’s an “ongoing infestation.”

  43. 43
    Brian says:

    These people ARE liars, they ARE fuckups, they ARE wrong.

    Whatever, Sparky. Enjoy your little harangue……

    BARK BARK LIAR BARK BARK FUCK-UP BARK BARK ASSHAT BARK BARK INCOMPETENT BARK BARK CRONY BARK BARK CLUELESS BARK BARK HACK BARK BARK BUMBLER BARK BARK.

  44. 44
    ppGaz says:

    Enjoy your little harangue……

    That’s right, Mister Failed Spoofapalooza.

    An army (if you don’t mind the expression) of generals want this incompetant boob to resign, and you come along and say “Pavlov’s Dog!” …. and we’re doing the harangue?

    My, aren’t we cheeky today?

    You need to go back to your spoof tutor and find out what to do next, kid.

  45. 45
    Broken says:

    Brian. When do you catch on?

    Never.

    Brian’s the kind of guy Bush was speaking of when he said:

    “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.”

    George Bush, Gridiron Club, March, 2001.

  46. 46
    Nikki says:

    …you have these reactions, like Pavlov’s dog, when you think of anyone in this administration, you bark: “incompetent”, “liar”, “fuck up”.

    Could it be because they are incompetent, lying fuckups?

  47. 47
    Brian says:

    An army (if you don’t mind the expression) of generals want this incompetant boob to resign, and you come along and say “Pavlov’s Dog!” …. and we’re doing the harangue?

    See? You just can’t help yourself. There’s that “incompetent” again.

    Must’ve been too much glue sniffing in your younger years.

    Narrow mind, narrow vocabulary, narrow confidence.

  48. 48
    VAMark says:

    When the best that can be said of one of my coworkers is that they work long hours, it’s usually someone we wish would go home a little earlier so the rest of us had fewer messes to clean up.

    And when the complaint is arrogance or failed planning or fostering an environment of group think, a defense of “he works hard and does is homework” isn’t even an attempt to address the issue.

  49. 49
    Al Maviva says:

    They’ve been wrong about Iraq, for example, for THIRTY FUCKING YEARS, Brian.

    You actually have a good point for once, PPGaz. With the help of the “regular” military formations of the PLO, which shipped south from the Bekaa Valley to participate, Saddam’s henchmen were slaughtering off those Kuwaitis and the the hapless guest workers who failed to flee the Iraqi invasion. Saddam promised the Palestinians Kuwait as a homeland in exchange for their support in the matter. Had we not intervened, Saddam would more or less own Kuwait, and Pals would have a homeland of their own with a nice little oil economy, and several hundred miles of desert between themselves and the odious Zionists. It’s quite possible that the Israeli/Pal portion of the middle east quagmire would be settled. Of course this would have made our good friends the Saudis quite nervous, and there’s always the possibility Saddam would have reneged on his promises to the PLO, but what do we care? There is also the matter of the slaughtered Kuwaitis and their guest workers, but I think you’d agree that morality really shouldn’t be a factor in our foreign relations universe – look where the moralistic neo-cons have brought us.

    One other thing on the generals – they were in near revolt over the Kosovar air campaign and the IFOR expedition into former Yugoslavia, yet those turned out okay. Two of our greatest military leaders advocated wars of annihilation with Russia and China – Patton and MacArthur. Another couple great military minds – Westmoreland and Abrams (not to mention a couple pretty good ones Clark and Bradley) – didn’t see how we could lose in VietNam. I’m never sure how much weight to give to the opinions of generals in matters of grand strategy.

  50. 50
    Andrew says:

    If Rummy goes, then someone might blame Bush for Iraq. Thus, Rummy stays.

  51. 51
    ppGaz says:

    John, Tim? Again, seriously, are you reading Brian’s posts here?

    WTF?

    This is nonsense. Bring back your scs spoof, it was better than this crap.

  52. 52
    Steve says:

    I wish I were enough of a “clear-thinking realist” to automatically dismiss the notion that anyone in this administration could possibly be incompetent.

  53. 53

    The Blood Continues to Flow

    I’m busy today, and of course Binky’s still out of town so this week’s light posting will continue for a bit longer. But it occurred to me that we hadn’t had an Iraq post up just lately so …If the…

  54. 54
    KC says:

    I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen so many big time generals come out and denounce a sitting secretary of defense. I wasn’t around for Vietnam, that may be why, but in any case, it just seems to me that a lot of Repu–Bushlicans can’t seem to face the fact that our secretary of defense sucks. Not that our problems are all Rumsfeld’s fault.

  55. 55
    ppGaz says:

    You actually have a good point for once, PPGaz

    Hey, it happens.

    The way it works is, when you have one, I try to make one too.

    ;-)

  56. 56
    ppGaz says:

    Bush knows that he sucks. But Bush is a stubborn, prideful fool who puts his own ego and his pride ahead of the country and the troops.

  57. 57
    KC says:

    I completely agree with that sentiment ppGaz.

  58. 58
    scarshapedstar says:

    It honestly surprises me that nobody has offered to step up in Rummy’s defense.

    Just you wait, the 101st Typing Chickenhawks will sound the charge any minute now.

  59. 59
    ppGaz says:

    “Heckuva job, Rummy.”

  60. 60
    Brian says:

    John, Tim? Again, seriously, are you reading Brian’s posts here?

    I hope they are, and I hope they read my comment a couple days back where I asked if they want the likes of you to be representative of the culture here on this site. I’d be very curious of their answer, but their silence leades me to believe that they like it just the way it is.

  61. 61
    Broken says:

    One other thing on the generals – they were in near revolt over the Kosovar air campaign and the IFOR expedition into former Yugoslavia, yet those turned out okay. Two of our greatest military leaders advocated wars of annihilation with Russia and China – Patton and MacArthur. Another couple great military minds – Westmoreland and Abrams (not to mention a couple pretty good ones Clark and Bradley) – didn’t see how we could lose in VietNam. I’m never sure how much weight to give to the opinions of generals in matters of grand strategy.

    Good points. Patton and MacArthur certainly needed to be kept on tight leashes, and MacArthur’s qualities as a general were highly over-blown by the media. Westmoreland was not competent. However, Abrams inherited a war that was already lost. Not his fault.

    In any case, the officer corps that has developed since Vietnam is the most competent and professional we have ever had. According to many accounts, including David Ignatius’s in today’s WP, the opposition to Rumsfeld runs very deep, much deeper than the opposition in Yugoslavia.

    The screw-ups in Iraq are plain for the eye to see. Shineseki did speak out that the troop levels were too low, and Rumsfeld kicked him aside. Rumsfeld kept the State Department out of the post-war effort, from shear spite at Colin Powell.

    Rummy has killed some useless weapon systems, such as Crusader, and that’s a good thing. But he blows far more money on the far more useless mid-course hit-to-kill interceptor ABM system being installed up in Alaska. A system that has never worked and would be easily counter-measured even if it ever did.

  62. 62
    jg says:

    I’m never sure how much weight to give to the opinions of generals in matters of grand strategy.

    wow. The right doesn’t hesitate when it comes to throwing people under a bus. Before these generals came out agaisnt rummy I’d bet the right would defend them to the death if the left had questioned their judgement.

  63. 63
    Laura says:

    I think I can speak for many centrists and conservatives

    You live in California where a mere 32% approve of Bush. Nearly 2/3 of the country want to bring all or some of our troops home now. Those numbers would be vastly different if your statement above were even remotely true.

    As far as people calling Rumsfeld incompetent, that’s not surprising considering it’s the most common word Americans use to describe his boss. Besides, if anybody were being influenced by Cindy Sheehan, I suspect “incompetent” would be way too polite a term for anybody in this Administration.

  64. 64
    Tim F. says:

    John and I think that people who toss out vulgar racism and sexism should get the boot. Other than that we think that you should speak your mind however you see fit.

    Also, embed your links. And don’t post entire articles that might get us sued for copyright infringement.

    That’s right, baby – I’m a scientist, a blogger and a FAQ.

  65. 65
    jg says:

    For years I’ve been saying I love the military but hate the civilian leadership. Seems to me that the right loves the civilian leadership and not the military unless they are doing what the beloved civilian leadership is telling them. But I hate the troops?

  66. 66
    Brian says:

    Also, embed your links.

    I do that :)

  67. 67
    ppGaz says:

    you should speak your mind however you see fit.

    So, the right is represented here mainly by the Three Stooges approach, which I would describe as “All lefties are poopyheads.”

    You’d be doing the right a favor by replacing these morons with something of a little more value.

    Brian, Darrell, and Par R. For crissakes, guys. Really.

    That’s your main righty commentariat these days.

  68. 68
    Ancient Purple says:

    Don, are you really this stupid?

    That’s rhetorical, right?

  69. 69
    Par R says:

    ppGaz writes:

    “John, Tim? Again, seriously, are you reading Brian’s posts here? WTF?”

    ppGaz sure does like the old-fashioned fascist practice of eliminating all forms of dissent, doesn’t he? Given the weakness of his typical arguments, not to mention his intellect, I guess this shouldn’t be too surprising.

  70. 70
    Brian says:

    Nearly 2/3 of the country want to bring all or some of our troops home now.

    That’s debatable, Laura. Home NOW is a very dangerous idea, promoted by some very opportunistic politicians, and the poll question may have been asked in a very leading manner.

    “Incompetent” may be used so commonly because it’s “in the air” via the media and their frinedly politicians. It’s contained in their every other sentence. BARK BARK!.

  71. 71
    ppGaz says:

    eliminating all forms of dissent,

    Uh, “All lefties are poopyheads” is dissent?

    That’s what I’m talking about, Tim.

    I rest my case.

  72. 72
    tBone says:

    Brian, Darrell, and Par R

    They form the Axis of:

    {insert your own gratuitous insult here!}

  73. 73
    ppGaz says:

    They form the Axis of:

    Exactly. The Axis of Nothing.

  74. 74
    John S. says:

    They form the Axis of:

    {insert your own gratuitous insult here!}

    I prefer…

    They form the Asses of:

    {insert your own gratuitous insult here!}

  75. 75
    Brian says:

    You’d be doing the right a favor by replacing these morons with something of a little more value.

    Until this happens, you’ll be dealing with us, Sparky. What is it that frustrates you so much? Being challenged in a reasonable manner?

  76. 76
    ppGaz says:

    Being challenged in a reasonable manner?

    Challenged?

    Snort. Yeah, that’s it. Challenged.

    You’re not even a good spoof, man. Give it up.

  77. 77
    jaime says:

    What happened Brian, you’ve changed your tactic from criticizing already-corrected spelling to having people got to a thesaurus to look up synonyms for ‘incompetent’.

    Don’t push Brian too hard, he may have to put the cheetos away and kick your trailer prak trash ass…even if you grew up nowhere near a trailer park.

  78. 78
    ppGaz says:

    even if you grew up nowhere near a trailer park.

    Brian as “Earl,” then?

  79. 79
    Brian says:

    trailer prak

    Is that like “South Prak”. Maybe you should be SecDef.

  80. 80
    Par R says:

    For about the umpteenth time CRY BABY ppGaz complains and wants to silence all dissenting voices:

    “Brian, Darrell, and Par R. For crissakes, guys. Really.

    “That’s your main righty commentariat these days.”

    The last quote may be close to accurate, as the ppGaz, Ted, et.al., group increasingly try to impose a monolithic Left- only point of view on the comment threads. And when one moves beyond the trite and oft repeated phrases/words used by these folks to characterize the Administration, such as “incompetent,” “liar,” “shithead,” etc., one is left with not a whole lot of substance. Basically, in recent months, the threads here have come to resemble those found at Eschaton, DU and other stops on the Left’s sewer of blogs.

  81. 81
    Katie says:

    See? You just can’t help yourself. There’s that “incompetent” again.

    Must’ve been too much glue sniffing in your younger years.

    Narrow mind, narrow vocabulary, narrow confidence.

    So Brian, you don’t disagree that Rumsfeld is incompetent, you just object to the repeated use of the term. How about we mix it up a little bit, instead of incompetent, we’ll say Rumsfeld is useless, inept, bungling, unskilled, ineffectual, hopeless, futile, inadequate, worthless, a waste of time, pathetic, unsuccessful, unimpressive, laughable, contemptible, ridiculous, disgraceful, deplorable, reprehensible, culpable, or blameworthy. Better?

  82. 82
    ppGaz says:

    Brian, a “challenge” might look something like this:

    “Here are five objective assertions about why Don Rumsfeld has done a great job as Sec of Def and, most importantly, should stay on now:”

    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.

    See, that’s a challenge.

    Not “Incomepetant? Schmetompetant!” See, that’s not a challenge. That’s called heckling.

  83. 83
    JWeidner says:

    There’s a much better solution here. Just IGNORE someone like Brian, GOP4ME or whoever else jumps on the thread just to push your buttons. Don’t even address them. For crying out loud, no one is going to ban them, and you’re just encouraging them by responding to them.

  84. 84
    don surber says:

    Mr Furious Says: Bite me Don.

    Rummy was brought in to end the Cold War mentality at the Pentagon and too damned bad if these fellows do not like it. I elected Bush to run the Pentagon, not the other way around

    Fact is, I am glad a few of these fellows retired. Judging by their statements, some of them were a star or two above their level of competence

  85. 85
    don surber says:

    One other thing, Rummy would be a better president than Bush or Cheney

  86. 86
    Brian says:

    The Best of ppGaz……

    “SHUT THE FUCK UP”

    “FIRE THEIR SORRY ASSES”

    “Fire these incompetant sonsabitches and get new government. That’s what America is for, it’s why we have elections and stuff. To get rid of the imcompetants and the crooks and the liars and the self-serving fucks.”

    “Don’t EVER give somebody else a hard time about citing facts, you asshole. You sling proof-by-assertion crap in here every fucking day.”

    “Answer the goddammed question”

    “Now go away and shut the fuck up.”

    “Suppose you’re a shepherd, and you crave sex with sheep”

    “Ben Stein, the fat slob”

    “Jesus. Do you ever stop to think before you post?”

    “this is the piece of shit that you posted”

    “You fear-mongering, bigoted asshole”

    “you are really making an ass of yourself now”

    “why do we have to settle for this kind of dumbshit Stormy-scs-stickler commentary in here?”

    “I find you a suck-ass embarassing piece of crap, myself.”

    “shut the fuck up”

    “Limp-wristed bastard.”

    “resident piece of shit homophobe”

    “Fuck them…..It’s about me”

    “What possible rationale can there be for a Darrell or scs or Stormy … or stickler … to post here?….Close the door to those four psychotics, and I’ll not post here again until they do…..I’m dead serious.”

    “Which version of the UN do you want to jerk us off about?”

    “Shut up, and answer the questions that have been put to you.”

    “Like I said, stick-up-your-ass, you are just making this stuff up.”

    “Fuck off, man. You’re a joke.”

    “Go away, seriously. You think you can just make shit up and peddle it here? STFU. Beat it. You aren’t even being funny any more.”

    “Seriously, go away. You’re embarrassing yourself now.”

    “What a frigging idiot.”

    “Bill Bennett is a big fat lying stupid piece of shit.”

    “make some stupid arcane point on a stupid fat pig’s radio show,”

    “Aw, shove it your dirtpipe…..This is just boilerplate righty noise machine crap.”

    “That’s your entire stock in trade, asshole.”

    “John Cole is Darrell’s bitch.”

    ““Remember the lessons of 9-11” said the great George Fucking W. Bush”

    “You’re about due for a cockslap.”

    “if you don’t understand something I say, that’s your problem, pal! Fuck you!”

    “he is a big fat pompous asshole who doesn’t care about anything or anybody but himself”

    “I have always held iron workers in the highest regard.”

    “I’m too lazy”

    “religion and prayer is a crutch of the weak”

    And that’s just in the past week.

  87. 87
    ppGaz says:

    I elected Bush to run the Pentagon

    Hubris is dead.

  88. 88
    don surber says:

    JWeidner Says:

    “There’s a much better solution here. Just IGNORE someone like Brian, GOP4ME or whoever else jumps on the thread just to push your buttons. Don’t even address them. For crying out loud, no one is going to ban them, and you’re just encouraging them by responding to them.”

    Reads like right outa the last two South Park episodes. Ever hear the song, “Nowhere Man”?

  89. 89
    ppGaz says:

    And that’s just in the past week.

    Jealousy is not your best look, dude.

  90. 90
    don surber says:

    Brian:

    Now THAT was funny

  91. 91
    jaime says:

    Is that like “South Prak”.

    As long as you’re being a little bitch and correcting spelling, you might want to have put the correct punctuation on the end of that sentence, tough guy.

  92. 92
    ppGaz says:

    Yeah, but he’s making my point.

    The Stooges just keep repeating the same “all lefties are poopyheads” thing over and over, every day, to every thread.

    Me, I mix it up. Original, creative trash talk that is fact based and tailored for the situation. That takes work, and skill. Cutting and pasting the same fucking boring “Typical lefty ….blah blah blah” crap, that’s just wrong.

    C’mon, Don. You are really aren’t going to (a) defend the fucking STOOGES, or (b) try to turn this into a Stooges versus ppGaz thing, are you?

    You’re better than that, man.

  93. 93
    Mr Furious says:

    Don Surber, President of the Rumsfeld Fan Club, The Rumsketeers

    I’m glad you think Rumsfeld is so dreamy.

    So, Rumsfeld was brought in to end the Cold War mentality…exactly what mentality is he installing?

  94. 94
    ppGaz says:

    “he is a big fat pompous asshole who doesn’t care about anything or anybody but himself”

    BTW, dumbshit, have you ever seen Bill Bennett?

    I know, let’s you and I have a debate, Brian.

    “Bill Bennett is a big fat pompous asshole” versus “Bill Bennett is not a big fat pompous asshole.”

    Loser of the debate never posts here again.

    Ready?

    You go first.

  95. 95
    jaime says:

    C’mon, Don. You are really aren’t going to (a) defend the fucking STOOGES, or (b) try to turn this into a Stooges versus ppGaz thing, are you?

    Birds of a feather

  96. 96
    ppGaz says:

    The Rumsketeers

    Tip o’the hat, Mr. F.

  97. 97
    ppGaz says:

    Brian, at least seven retired generals have come out and said that Bill Bennet is a big fat pompous asshole.

    Back to you.

  98. 98
    Mr Furious says:

    frinedly, leades

    Those were yours from upthread, Brian. They are called typos, and a product of quickly typing your conversation in this forum.

    Everybody else seems to be able to live without pointing that shit out all the time, and you are clearly guilty as well, so why don’t you shut the fuck up with that stuff already.

  99. 99
    ppGaz says:

    Brian, you don’t suffer from obesity, do you? Because the “big fat pompous asshole” thing is not directed at you. Don’t take it personally.

  100. 100
    Steve says:

    What’s up with holding iron workers in the highest regard?

  101. 101
    Par R says:

    An outstanding post, Brian, one that fully illustrates what a lying, hypocritical sack of shit ppGaz really is.

    A portion of the ppGaz reply:

    “Original, creative trash talk that is fact based and tailored for the situation.”

    As I have observed on previous occasions, ppGaz is a real piece of trailer park trash.

  102. 102
    ppGaz says:

    Full disclosure, Brian. I am a pompous asshole, myself.

    Not by choice, though. It’s genetic.

    But anyway, here’s the thing: First, I’m not a big fat pompous asshole, like Bennett. I am actually the less-often-seen tall skinny pompous asshole. More importantly, however, I don’t make a living telling other people that I’m morally superior to them. Smarter, better looking, more fun to go out with, yes. But not morally superior.

    So I’m sure you can understand where I’m coming from here.

  103. 103
    ppGaz says:

    ppGaz is a real piece of trailer park trash.

    Maybe, but I’m trailer park trash that is making you guys look like the Three Stooges and tying you up talking about me.

    Down at my trailer park we call that a “win-win.”

    Or is it win-win-win? Well, anyway.

  104. 104
    Par R says:

    Down at my trailer park we call that a “win-win.”

    Or is it win-win-win? Well, anyway.

    ppGaz, I would avoid these lame attempts at humor.

  105. 105
    les says:

    Lectures on humor by a bush disciple. Words fail me. Par R, can I loan you my irony meter?

  106. 106
    ppGaz says:

    I would avoid these lame attempts at humor.

    Apparently you avoid all attempts at humor.

  107. 107
    Mr Furious says:

    Apparently you avoid all attempts at humor.

    Yet laughter follows him wherever he goes…

  108. 108
    Brian says:

    Katie,

    I guess I prefer to be more descriptive in my critiques than to lob juvenile labels around. And I think the Left has honed that craft to perfection, hence it’s reliance on labels like “incompetent” to sum up things they know they believe, but can’t seem to articulate in an adult manner.

    As I have said in previous posts re Rumsfeld, I would not be sorry to see him go. Of all the members of Bush’s cabinet, Rummy’s the one I took an almost instant distrust to, and this is before 9/11. However, I do not wish to see him go under by a gathering of ex-generals pulling their shivs and going after Rumsfeld with a gleeful media training their cameras on the spectacle. It’s akin to a witch hunt.

    Rumsfeld was hired to shake up the Pentagon, and he began doing just that, until terrorism hit us hard and changed our priorities. Nevertheless, lifelong military types never forgot how Rumsfeld wanted retired some of them involuntarily, or created change within DoD that they were highly resistant to. In this regard, it’s important to understand that generals are politicians, too, and some of their vitriol may be coming from their original dislike of Rummy from those days of change.

    Rumsfeld has a personality that can both serve him well, and destroy him; he can be absolutely ruthless. This is a good trait considering the threats against us (I know, you don’t see it as a threat [maybe a little nuisance], but others do see it as a genuine threat), but when applied to the political sphere it can defeating. However, he has made some very tough changes in the military in shutting down bases and ridding the budget of unnecessary assets, carried out an effective campaign in Afghanistan that the Soviets never could accomplish, and from what I’ve read he has admirably directed our efforts in strategic defense. These are but a few accomplishments among many.

    That said, he is a liability. His management skills are horrible, and he makes decisions without adequately considering the impact to the giant enterprise he’s maneuvering. It’s one thing to be decisive, but you can be decisive and at the same time have a tremendously negative impact on your subordinates and their ability to successfully do their jobs. Rummy is dispensable, make no bones about it, even in this election year. I hope he gets rid of him and replaces him with an able Democrat (a shrinking pool of talent, to be certain).

    But let’s also be clear: this is not about Rumsfeld to you. It is about Bush. Period. Get Rummy, and Bush is next. It’s a naked attempt to embolden the movement against Bush, and sharpen the impeachment knives. The left has always maintained that Bush’s crew can’t admit their mistakes. Well, a marginal player by the name of Francis Fukuyama recently admitted his mistakes, and he was rewarded by the left with their turned backs, and an insistence that his apology or regret would never be accepted. Imaging how Bush or Rummy or Condi would be received!!

    Your anger and your hit jobs are very transparent.

  109. 109
    Brian says:

    What’s up with holding iron workers in the highest regard?

    I wanted to see if anyone caught that one.

    I think next time I’ll use my skills as an editor to take his lines and create a whole new ppGaz comment. Kinda like one of those 70s songs that used clips from other songs to create something close to funny. But with ppGaz, it’ll be a LAUGH RIOT.

  110. 110
    capelza says:

    Total threadjack…and I lay it at the feet of John Cole. Because he posted about Duncan Black I was forced to go over there (not really, but I hadn’t been there in ages). And speaking of FAT. Christopher Hitchens called teh Dixie Chicks “fucking fat slags”.

    Now normally, I am not a huge fan of Atrios, but his comment section does have some good zingers in it. But this Hitchens thing? He completely owned Hitchens on that one. By posting the RS cover of the naked Dixie Chicks and one of Hitchens in all his..uhm..glory.

    So bringing this around to the sub topic at hand, Brian, are you Christopher Hitchens. And…how many generals would agree that the Dixie Chicks are not fat?

  111. 111
    Pooh says:

    Par, note that occassionally ppGaz posts something of substance. You? Not so much. Unless you consider calling Atrios “Tiny Meat” to be a substantial contribution.

  112. 112
    Pb says:

    Bush doesn’t listen to polls, or opinions, or citizens, or retired generals, or constituents (although he does enjoy looking at Brit Hume)… he just listens to his trusted inner circle of lackeys and cronies, trusts them to give him the best information and advice, and then makes his decisions, which are invariably wrong.

    HUME: How do you get your news?
    BUSH: I get briefed by Andy Card and Condi in the morning. They come in and tell me. In all due respect, you’ve got a beautiful face and everything.
    I glance at the headlines just to kind of a flavor for what’s moving. I rarely read the stories, and get briefed by people who are probably read the news themselves. But like Condoleezza, in her case, the national security adviser is getting her news directly from the participants on the world stage.
    HUME: Has that been your practice since day one, or is that a practice that you’ve…
    BUSH: Practice since day one.
    HUME: Really?
    BUSH: Yes. You know, look, I have great respect for the media. I mean, our society is a good, solid democracy because of a good, solid media. But I also understand that a lot of times there’s opinions mixed in with news. And I…
    HUME: I won’t disagree with that, sir.
    BUSH: I appreciate people’s opinions, but I’m more interested in news. And the best way to get the news is from objective sources. And the most objective sources I have are people on my staff who tell me what’s happening in the world.
    Bush Interview, Fox News, 9/22/03

  113. 113
    Mr Furious says:

    Brian,

    First, nice post. While I don’t agree with some of it, I applaud the effort. Let’s dig in:

    Effective campaign in Afganistan — I say Tora Bora. Now I will give Rumsfeld some credit in that theater as far as the initial assault goes, one of the main reasons we went in was blown when we failed to nab Bin Laden. Also, Afganistan is not quite the success story some like to pretend it is. The Taliban is marginalized, but much of the country is still out of control, and once again driven by the heroin trade.

    Changing the military culture — Rumsfeld’s been waaaay to stubborn on this one and it has cost American lives. He skimped on troops in Iraq in order to prove his point and experiment with this new “culture” and it is the number one miscalculation and the root of nearly every thing that has gone wrong there. And he dragged his feet on remedying the situation as well as properly equipping troops.

    Unnecessary Assets — Hmm, Star Wars?

    Finally, I welcome Fukuyama with open arms. He has been a cogent and convincing advocate to most of my positions. Frankly, I think he’s been fairly well received on my side. At this point contrition from any of the Bush crew is probably too little, tooo late, but I would consider it a step in the right direction, and would not spit on their hand should it be offered.

  114. 114
    jaime says:

    Brian and Par R: For such Commie haters, you would make glorious Soviets.

  115. 115
    ppGaz says:

    hence it’s reliance on labels like “incompetent”

    Brian, you can’t pretend to be all serious and outraged about the level of discourse one minute, and then write gag lines like this, the next.

    Is it your position that calling these people incompetant is NOT a reasonable thing to do?

    Can you even stay on message for ONE POST? What is the only reasonable one-word description of this, in any office in America today?

    he is a liability. His management skills are horrible, and he makes decisions without adequately considering the impact to the giant enterprise

    Sorry …. I didn’t hear you. What was it again?

  116. 116
    Broken says:

    Brian Says:

    This is not about Rumsfeld to you. It is about Bush. Period.

    Of course Rumsfeld’s incompetence reflects on Bush. Bush hired him. Bush says Rummy’s doing a good job. No matter how incompetent his underlings are, Bush thinks they are doing a good job, a heck-of-a-job, or gives them a medal.

    Why shouldn’t Bush’s judgement reflect on Bush?

  117. 117
    ppGaz says:

    occassionally ppGaz posts something of substance

    Like I said upthread …. it happens.

    Certainly, more often than I am paid for.

  118. 118
    Pooh says:

    Brian,

    That post is the reason why I find you frustrating much of the time. You are fully capable of moving the discussion forward, yet often choose not to (to be fair, with some, er, motivation in that regards by certain Arizonan commentors). I try to make it a point to meet people halfway on things like that, so, more please.

    You make a solid point in that there may well be an institutional grudge against Rummy, because ‘shaking up’ any organization is going to create some enemies (See Summers, Larry for another example…) However, I think you mistake the fact that he pissed people off for the shakeup he effectuated being positive. I’m not here to say conclusively whether it was or wasn’t, because I’m not qualified (as, I would surmise are you. No shame, in that, if either of us were qualified, we wouldn’t be jabbing here, we’d be inside the beltway making the big bucks…)

    And it’s entirely possible that he was a genius at the beaurocratic/business management side of the job and absolute shit at the operational/strategic side (given his CV as summarized by TCR, that doesn’t seem far-fetched at all.) Which would indicate to me that the vehemance of the generals might be caused by the former, but that doesn’t really deflect the accuracy of the latter critique.

    Finally, I’ll add that if you always act like a smug, supercillious, know-it-all SOB, when the time comes, people’s knives will be extra sharp, and you really have no one but yourself to blame.

  119. 119
    ppGaz says:

    Oh great, Pooh is trying to rehabilitate a spoof.

    A guy who got voted off American Spoof Idol in the third week, already.

  120. 120
    Pb says:

    ppGaz,

    I thought this was the gag line:

    I guess I prefer to be more descriptive in my critiques than to lob juvenile labels around. And I think the Left has honed that craft to perfection

    Remember, folks, Brian is above the fray here, he doesn’t enjoy lobbing juvenile labels around the way the cowardly seditious flip-flopping socialist cut-and-run pinko commie Massachusetts hippie liberals on the traitorous hate-America Left do–why, they’ve honed that craft to perfection!

  121. 121
    Pooh says:

    Brian Says:

    This is not about Rumsfeld to you. It is about Bush. Period.

    There is some truth to that, but as the Djerejian post mentioned upthread notes, on issues of defense policy, they are inextricably linked.

    First of all Bush has delegated virtually all war planning and management of the military to Rumsfeld; his own relationships with uniformed military officers or other Pentagon officials appear to be neither numerous nor deep compared to those of other wartime Presidents. Secondly he relies to an unusual — really, an unprecedented — degree on his Vice President to advise him on the political and diplomatic strategy behind the war. Vice President Cheney, a former Rumsfeld subordinate, has been the Defense Secretary’s strongest backer.

    The unusual position this has allowed Rumsfeld to assume helps to explain key American policy moves throughout the Iraq war, and in other fields as well. The point I want to make here is that his departure now would not be like any other Cabinet Secretary’s departure — it would leave a huge hole in the middle of Bush’s administration, a vacuum that could only be filled by someone Bush trusted enough to delegate approximately as much authority as that he has given to Rumsfeld. Apart from Cheney himself, there is no such person.

  122. 122
    ppGaz says:

    “Secretary Rumsfeld’s energetic and steady leadership is exactly what is needed at this critical period.”

    US President George W Bush

    As reported by BBC just a short time ago.

  123. 123
    Mr Furious says:

    That’s a great chunk you pulled out there, Pooh.

    [ugh. that does NOT read the way it’s intended…]

    And I’ll second your attempt to engage Brian (as I did a little ways back). I certainly enjoy a little tag team with ppGaz, but all in all, I’d rather actually have a discussion. That’s where I always try to start out anyway. But I’ll fully cop to getting my hands dirty wen the slinging starts…

  124. 124
    Mr Furious says:

    Jesus. that’s quite a different chunk there, ppGaz.

    And these righties wonder why Bush enters the discussion.

  125. 125
    Brian says:

    Mr. Furious,

    Thanks for the props. Following along your comment……

    Afghanistan, like any campaign, has good and bad. There was so much invested in “getting OBL” that it does seem a failure it didn’t come to pass. However, having OBL in constant hiding, only surfacing every now and then to spout his usual threats, is not necessarily a bad thing. There’s a contrast there that the administration could take advantage of, but isn’t (one of the admin’s MANY shortcomings). Also, I do realize that the Taliban is still a force to be reckoned with, but they are not controlling the country, and there have been elections and a nod at least to women’s rights. I see Afghanistan as a better petrie dish for democracy in that part of the world than I do Iraq. It’s smaller, and Karzai seems able to control the tribal factions there without having to resort to Saddam-like tactics. I consider that a success.

    Rummy’s troop changes can be seen two different ways. The way you desribe it, as a stubborn resistance to providing a high volume of force, or as deliberately capping the troop levels to force the Iraqis to get up to speed in protecting their own country. As a manager, I can see the latter strategy making sense. Unfortuantely, and this is where I think Rummy got tripped up, is that it created a vacuum of force that was filled by the insurgency. As can be typically said of Rummy and the admin. as a whole: the plan makes sense, but how did the execution of it go? One of Rummy’s legacies may be that radical adjustments to the DoD are ill-advised for any SecDef. I hope they’re taking good lessons from what’s going on in Iraq so as a) not to repeat them, and b) create systems and training grounds to get our existing assets (labor and equipment) adjusted for this new type of enemy. I think there was a recognition of a new type of enemy, but the military was still fighting it with old rules.

    The strategic defense initiative (aka Star Wars) is not something I’m well read on, but from what I understand of what’s been distilled on the topic, he’s been able at adjusting our defesne strategy from the Cold War model to a broader scope that takes into account the more numerous entities holding these weapons, and in working with European allies on the same, rather than doing it unilaterally.

    I do hope that if/when Rumsfeld resigns (and I believe he’ll be gone before summer), and his replacement chosen, it will result in an improved political climate, and not result in a “shaking of the tree” to get more of Bush’s lemons to fall off.

  126. 126
    ppGaz says:

    And I’ll second your attempt to engage Brian

    I don’t. I give no quarter to him or any of the Stooges who have to lace their posts with constant repetitions of “lefty this” and “lefty that” boilerplate bullshit.

    Sitting on THIS of all threads and whining about the use of the word “incompetant.” WTF? Seriously, WTF?

    From a guy who posted this:

    he is a liability. His management skills are horrible, and he makes decisions without adequately considering the impact to the giant enterprise he’s maneuvering. It’s one thing to be decisive, but you can be decisive and at the same time have a tremendously negative impact on your subordinates and their ability to successfully do their jobs.

    That, and then the lecture on what language is acceptable in describing this fucking turd who is killing people with his crummy leadership?

    Uh no, I don’t think so. I’m not for “engaging” Brian.

  127. 127
    Brian says:

    Secondly he relies to an unusual—really, an unprecedented—degree on his Vice President to advise him on the political and diplomatic strategy behind the war. Vice President Cheney, a former Rumsfeld subordinate, has been the Defense Secretary’s strongest backer.

    And why, if I were in Bush’s shoes and hat to make this tough decision on ridding my cabinet of some baggage, I’d lose both Rummy AND Cheney. Heckyl and Jeckyl.

    That post is the reason why I find you frustrating much of the time.

    Occasionally, I only have the time to stop by, fart, and move on. Worth remembering next time you think you smell a fart here. Probably me releasing my “wisdom wind”.

  128. 128
    Mr Furious says:

    I’m not sure Rumsfeld’s head on a platter is really going to be all it’s cracked up to be for the left anyway. It will allow for much of the blame for the mess in Iraq to be offloaded with him. And while they may have been Rumsfeld’s errors in many cases, Bush deserves to pay the price as (he likes to remind us) he IS Commander in Chief, not be able to offer Rummy as a lamb.

    If it happens, the Dems will likely gloat and let the moment pass, Bush will shake a lot of this shit off. Then look for Rummy to come back to the Rose Garden for his Medal a few months later as a sop to the base.

  129. 129
    Brian says:

    Uh no, I don’t think so. I’m not for “engaging” Brian.

    Well then, will you marry me, Moe?

  130. 130
    Pooh says:

    However, having OBL in constant hiding, only surfacing every now and then to spout his usual threats, is not necessarily a bad thing. There’s a contrast there that the administration could take advantage of, but isn’t (one of the admin’s MANY shortcomings).

    Hrm, I’m not sure what you mean by this, so could you clarify?

    Given some of the other things *cough*NSA*cough* (or ROYGBIV alerts leading up to elections…), it is decidedly convenient to have a useful boogeyman around. Please note, I am not suggesting intentional malfeasance in this regard, but I have made the point, repeatedly, that many of the admin’s legal ‘justifications’ for various assertions of power provide perverse incentives vis a vis apprehending those like the OBL’s of the Terrorists.

    Though, snark aside, yes it is useful to have a boogeyman – AIDS kills, use a condom/don’t have sex is a perfect example. OBL-booga-booga, vote GOP, is an illogical non-sequitor which at one point had a degree of traction. The real, long-term problem is that “wolf” has been cried too many times in that manner (while that may be ‘good’ from my political perspective, I think it’s probably bad from a longer term security outlook)

    My, I’m rambalicious today.

  131. 131
    Blue Neponset says:

    I don’t. I give no quarter to him or any of the Stooges who have to lace their posts with constant repetitions of “lefty this” and “lefty that” boilerplate bullshit.

    Amen ppGazz. Respond in kind is my motto. If that were Kerry’s motto in August 2004 he might have been elected President.

    If Brian or anyone else wants to be treated respectfully then he/she needs to act respectfully. Are there any Ken Shamrock fan’s out there who know what I am talking about?

  132. 132
    Brian says:

    Hrm, I’m not sure what you mean by this, so could you clarify?

    I can, but later. Ducking into a long meeting at work.

  133. 133
    slickdpdx says:

    Without getting into the merits of the war I see the “Rumsfeld is bungling the war meme” as a too-convenient way to oppose the Iraq war. Former war supporters hope to change their tunes without being called hypocrites. Never supporters can advocate against U.S. involvement in Iraq without seeming weak. This analysis applies to generals too. IMHO that’s a reason this story is running so strongly.

  134. 134
    capelza says:

    Is this number of generals coming at unprecendented in our history? I am asking here, because I don’t know. Of course generals could have, but the “information” age wasn’t around to spread it so quickly.

  135. 135
    Broken says:

    “Secretary Rumsfeld’s energetic and steady leadership is exactly what is needed at this critical period.”

    US President George W Bush

    And why is this period so critical?

    Funny coincidences in the last week:

    Sy Hersch puts out his “New Yorker” piece on bombing Iran, how the decision has been made, and how many in the military are rebelling. WP prints a similar story.

    The Administration calls it all “wild speculation”.

    Five former generals step forward calling for Rummy’s resignation.

  136. 136
    terry chay says:

    Seems to me that Shinseki was already trying to do an institutional shakeup (in the Army at least) before Rumsfeld became Sec.Def. IIRC, the first disagreement between them came over the Crusader system (a system designed to replace larger, less easily deployed batteries), before the Iraq War was even an issue.

    I’m not saying Rumsfeld’s idea of a smaller, lighter force isn’t a good one, but that it seemed that the argument in the Pentagon was a matter of degree, not the need for lighter forces. Many Army generals seemed to want as little change as possible or an additive force; Rumsfeld seemed to want to replace everything Army with special ops and the Air Force operations (sort of like a “New Economy” for war); Shinseki wanted to replace heavy battalions with medium ones.

    I won’t comment on what approach was “best”, but it is clear after the Iraq war, which approach was wrong.

  137. 137
    ppGaz says:

    If Brian or anyone else wants to be treated respectfully then he/she needs to act respectfully.

    Amen, back-at-ya.

    Me, I don’t really care if I’m treated with respect or not. I am 100% respond-in-kind. Dis me, fine, up yours. Nice to me, fine, I’m nice back. I don’t care. I am not here to make friends or run for office. I have no time at all for being conversational or polite or reasonable to the Darrells of the world. I don’t start every post with “you righties are shit” and I don’t tolerate that crap from them. If they do it, they get mooned by my bare ass and if they don’t like it they can kiss all of it.

    That pretty well covers the Brians and the Darrells of the world. Fuck ’em. And then you have the Pars. I have no idea what the hell that guy thinks he is doing, other than providing us with straight lines.

  138. 138
    ppGaz says:

    Well then, will you marry me, Moe?

    Ah, the IKYABWAI strategy.

    Again.

  139. 139
    Mr Furious says:

    I am 100% respond-in-kind

    Me too. Assclowns want to trade insults? I can give as good as I get. But all things considered, I prefer my last give and takes with Brian to the earlier ones.

    Darrell and Par R never step up like Brian just did. GOP4Me might occassionally…

    And no, Darrell, writing a long post thats still laced with your bullshit and invective does not count as stepping up. It just means a bigger scoop of crap.

  140. 140
    Pooh says:

    Seriously, what Furious just said. I mean if there’s no hope for anything but “you suck!” “you suck more” “you sucked first”, why bother?

    (Again, why Brian and Al and Mac Buckets are frustrating, because when they choose to…of course, the same could probably be said for ppG and Furious. I, of course am nothing but the brightest of sunshine…)

  141. 141
    ppGaz says:

    the same could probably be said for ppG

    Oh God, I hope so.

  142. 142
    Pooh says:

    I chide gently…

  143. 143
    ppGaz says:

    I just want to be remembered for being on time to the recording sessions …….

  144. 144
    Pooh says:

    You put on your pants just like everybody else – one leg at a time. And then you make gold records.

  145. 145
    ppGaz says:

    I just wish I still had all that curly hair though.

  146. 146
    Krista says:

    IKYABWAI

    Decipher, please.

  147. 147
    Krista says:

    I, of course am nothing but the brightest of sunshine…

    (Gag.)

  148. 148
    ppGaz says:

    “I know you are, but what am I?”

  149. 149
    ppGaz says:

    Sorry, this is a better explanation:

    You’re a doody head.

    I know you are, but what am I?

    Doody head!

    I know you are, but what am I?

    etc.

  150. 150
    easyliving says:

    pp,

    You dirty little piss ant. I wonder if I shiit bigger than you?

    Easyliving

  151. 151
    capelza says:

    Jesus H Christ…stop it!

  152. 152
    Brian says:

    Pooh,

    You wanted me to clarify this…..

    However, having OBL in constant hiding, only surfacing every now and then to spout his usual threats, is not necessarily a bad thing. There’s a contrast there that the administration could take advantage of, but isn’t (one of the admin’s MANY shortcomings).

    The administration, if it had enough sense about the value of public relations in dealing with the media and the public, would make use of the fact that we’re a free society, rebuilding the WTC site that OBL destroyed, agreeing and disagreeing about policy as free people, while he’s holed up in a cave or secret location with Zawahiri. Bush could leverage the value of the world seeing OBL preach death to western society and his plan for a global Islamic order, but doing so from hiding. He could paint the man and his movement as pathetic and highlight the contrast not only of OBL’s fear, but of modern society and the backwardness of OBL’s movement. It would go far toward winning the minds of those we need to win over.

    But Bush is awful at public relations. He has a pathological contempt for the media, and thinks that he was elected to do a job without any real accountability to those who elected him. You hear it in his speeches: “Just trust me to do the job”. Well, fine, but you weren’t elected to be a dictator, Mr. Bush.

  153. 153
    easyliving says:

    pp,

    Your statements infer to me the same feelings as receiving a little brown “gift” when giving my girlfriend an “oil check.”

    The worst part is not the initial ingestion. The worst part is the vomit that erupts, contaning said gift, so you have to taste it, yet again. Twice in all. The second time, with vomit. Much like trying to comprehend your moronic ramblings, the worst part is thinking about the terrible, vile bile behind the statements.

    It’s like the vomit with the poo.

  154. 154
    ppGaz says:

    A year ago, the righty song was “We won, get over it.”

    Now, it’s vomit with poo.

    Oh dear! What’s next?

  155. 155
    KC says:

    These comments are a riot.

  156. 156
  157. 157
    ppGaz says:

    Whatever you say, Brian. You and the other Stooges decide these things.

  158. 158
    ppGaz says:

    But Bush is awful at public relations.

    Not great at it, like you, then?

  159. 159
    Steve says:

    rebuilding the WTC site that OBL destroyed

    Ahem.

    How’s that coming?

  160. 160
    Brian says:

    How’s that coming?

    Some of you can be so hopelessly negative. The WTC site is moving forward, and you know will be rebuilt somehow, some way. What’s taking time is the diplomacy and the politics of such an important task.

  161. 161
    ppGaz says:

    Some of you can be so hopelessly negative.

    You’re right, Brian. Faced with the ongoing train wreck we see in the government, we should be positive. You know, like you are.

    In fact, a read of your posts to this thread is like a page out of The Power of Positive Thinking.

    Like this:

    he is a liability. His management skills are horrible, and he makes decisions without adequately considering the impact to the giant enterprise

    C’Mon, everybody, let’s all try to be more like Brian! Positive! Smile, laugh, be of good cheer!

    Your country goes into the toilet with the Secretary of Defense it has, not the one it wishes it had.

  162. 162
    Mr Furious says:

    Sweet Jesus, I need to rinse my eyes with bleach after reading that comment from easyliving…

    If you missed it, count yourself lucky and DO NOT scroll back up. I’ll take a whole thread of Darrell over getting ambushed with that shit!

  163. 163
    Steve says:

    Some of you can be so hopelessly negative. The WTC site is moving forward, and you know will be rebuilt somehow, some way. What’s taking time is the diplomacy and the politics of such an important task.

    I was just pointing out that you don’t have the first fucking idea what is going on with the WTC site. Of course it will be rebuilt, it’s not going to be a hole in the ground for centuries. But if you saw it, you sure wouldn’t cite it as an example of the great progress we’ve made since 9/11.

  164. 164
    Pooh says:

    Steve, you live/work in Manhattan correct?

  165. 165
    Steve says:

    I work about 3 blocks from Ground Zero. I don’t mean to sound pissy, it’s just that after all these years of hearing how liberals don’t understand the lessons of 9/11, I don’t really want to take responsibility for providing the National Phallic Symbol.

  166. 166
    ppGaz says:

    Why is Bush in so much trouble?

    “The problem is . . . a perception of incompetance.”

    Pat Buchanan, April 14 2006

    Wouldn’t a competant president accept the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld and begin to repair his own image?

    Or would it stubbornly support the beleaguered cabinet member to show “resolve?”

  167. 167
    CaseyL says:

    The “perception” of incompetence. I love that. Not actual incompetence; just the perception thereof.

  168. 168
    Brian says:

    But if you saw it, you sure wouldn’t cite it as an example of the great progress we’ve made since 9/11.

    Let’s see…..how do I put this nicely?…..

    Stick it up your arrogant ass.

    As usual, you missed my point entirely. Instead, you flap your wings and act superior because you live near the WTC site. As far as I’m concerned, you can bury yourself in it, smartass.

    C’Mon, everybody, let’s all try to be more like Brian! Positive! Smile, laugh, be of good cheer!

    Your country goes into the toilet with the Secretary of Defense it has, not the one it wishes it had.

    You don’t need to respond to me. If you don’t like what I say, ignore me. If you think the country’s gone to the toilet, leave. Take responsibility for yourself. I can’t be the reason for your discomfort in life, and neither can Bush. I don’t want that responsibility.

  169. 169
    ppGaz says:

    You don’t need to respond to me. If you don’t like what I say, ignore me. If you think the country’s gone to the toilet, leave. Take responsibility for yourself. I can’t be the reason for your discomfort in life, and neither can Bush. I don’t want that responsibility.

    Wow. Worst meltdown I’ve seen in a long time.

    Country in the toilet?

    “Wrong track” respondents, today: 69%

    Get a grip, dude. Game’s over.

  170. 170
    Pooh says:

    Wow. Worst meltdown I’ve seen in a long time.

    Dude, that wouldn’t even crack the top 5 of the John Cole’s of the Right’s meltdowns for April.

  171. 171
    Steve says:

    Let’s return to Brian’s point that I missed entirely.

    The administration, if it had enough sense about the value of public relations in dealing with the media and the public, would make use of the fact that we’re a free society, rebuilding the WTC site that OBL destroyed, agreeing and disagreeing about policy as free people, while he’s holed up in a cave or secret location with Zawahiri.

    Right. Well, if you haven’t noticed, the “they hate our freedoms” card was played out long ago. What you’re spinning is the fact that this guy murdered 3000 of your countrymen and has yet to be brought to justice, and any number of eloquent speeches along the lines of “we’re living well, and that’s the best revenge!” are not going to make that fact go away.

    As for the symbolic value of rebuilding the WTC site bigger and better than ever, I hate to tell you this, but it’s still a big hole in the ground, nearly 5 years after the fact. I take your spluttering vitriol (“Stick it up your arrogant ass!” This from the guy who is always lecturing us on our poor vocabulary) as an admission that yeah, you actually don’t have any idea what is going on with the WTC site or when it will be rebuilt.

    I happen to have a fairly conservative view of crime and punishment. You murder 3000 people, we bring you to justice, your life is forfeit. The penalty for murdering 3000 people is not that we will give a bunch of taunting speeches going “Nyah, nyah! You live in a cave!” If the local cops fail to catch a serial killer, the chief of police doesn’t call a press conference to say, “we’re fairly certain he’s on the run and living a rather unfulfilled existence.” The idea that Bush could turn it all into a positive by giving a few PR speeches is simply delusional. Are you the guy who keeps advising him to hold all those town halls?

  172. 172
    Perry Como says:

    you actually don’t have any idea what is going on with the WTC site or when it will be rebuilt.

    It went from a hole to a hole that has a couple ramps. Oh, there’s a pretty lighting box set up for…something. I’d pay more attention, but I have to get to uptown.

  173. 173
    ppGaz says:

    If you think the country’s gone to the toilet, leave.

    Is that the righty response today? Leave?

    If you don’t like what our alcoholic little prick of a king is doing, just leave?

    Hey, thanks so much, but if it’s okay with you, we’re looking to fire these incompetant motherfuckers as soon as possible. In case you hadn’t been paying attention.

    The lying drunk has only had one good idea in about five years, and that’s his immigration reforms. He can’t even get you to go along with them, apparently. One good idea and he can’t even get the die hard Kool Aid drinkers to support him on it.

  174. 174
    Pb says:

    Is that the righty response today? Leave?

    If only they took their own advice, and left 6-14 years ago, during the Clinton years, instead of sticking around and stinking up the place.

  175. 175
    Easyliving says:

    And yet I say: I AM EASYLIVING.

    Easyliving

  176. 176
    Krista says:

    If the local cops fail to catch a serial killer, the chief of police doesn’t call a press conference to say, “we’re fairly certain he’s on the run and living a rather unfulfilled existence.”

    Heh. Well-put.

    Oh, and easyliving? That 7:02 pm comment was beyond disgusting — it was revolting.

    John, any chance of taking that comment down? Nobody needs to read that, particularly over breakfast.

  177. 177
    Andrew says:

    Your statements infer to me the same feelings as receiving a little brown “gift” when giving my girlfriend an “oil check.”

    When did you start dating Jeff Goldstein’s dog?

  178. 178
    Brian says:

    You murder 3000 people, we bring you to justice, your life is forfeit.

    Yes, the ol’ “bring them to justice” chant. The enemy we’re dealing with, as represented by OBL, cares not one whit about Western justice. The fact that you don’t know this highlights your deep ignorance. You think Moussaoui cares, for instance, whether he lives in our federal prison, or dies by lethal injection? (It’s a rhetorical question; I’m not interested in your answer, which I can probably write for you, given your understanding of the enemy being discussed here).

    When the WTC site is rebuilt is beside the point. It may begin next year, it may begin in 5 years. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. But why state it again, so you can only miss it again.

    In fact, you miss every point I have made in this thread. All you can take away is my use of “profanity” (Never heard “ass” before? And you say you live in New York City??? Grow up, if you can’t handle this type of “profanity” in your virgin ears).

    You act arrogant and pretentious, with no talent or smarts to back it up, and I’ll call you on it. I don’t suffer fools gladly, and there is no shortage of them here. You are exhibit A in this regard.

  179. 179
    Brian says:

    Heh. Well-put.

    Krista is exhibit B.

  180. 180
    Brian says:

    Last thing, Steve-O, if you want some real examples of profanity, check these out from your fluff boy.

    But beware before you look: reading these might disturb your delicate sensibilities and ruin your Easter weekend at the sheer un-Christian nature of his comments. They might make you shudder, or even cry, you poor baby.

  181. 181
    RonB says:

    Yo, Bri! What’re you doing, man?

    You win some, you lose some. No reason to just swing at anyone in reach.

  182. 182
    Brian says:

    Yo, Bri! What’re you doing, man?

    Only focusing on a few with my responses, but point taken. But as I stated, I have little patience for such numbskulls.

  183. 183
    ppGaz says:

    Brian’s meltdown is the most complete of any I’ve ever seen at BJ. Really remarkable, one for the books.

    How long before he does the “You people are not worthy of my precious offerings. Good BYE” routine?

  184. 184
    capelza says:

    Don’t you just long for the days when the only asshole was Slide (hey, I liked him, but he could be an ass).

    Now it’s just drive-by shit talking…

  185. 185
    Brian says:

    Now it’s just drive-by shit talking…

    There’s that limited vocabulary at work. I’ve contributed more in this single thread than you have to this blog in a month. Hardly evidence of a “drive-by shit talker”.

    And if anyone needs evidence of a meltdown, see fluff boy’s comments above. Just one of his meltdown moments:

    “What possible rationale can there be for a Darrell or scs or Stormy … or stickler … to post here?….Close the door to those four psychotics, and I’ll not post here again until they do…..I’m dead serious.”

    Too bad he doesn’t follow through on his threats. They’re empty, like his head.

    The chutzpah it takes to think that he, a person of such mental midgetry, should be the arbiter of taste and decorum on this site, or any.

  186. 186
    capelza says:

    Brian…so funny you would think I was talking about you…but then you think this blog is all about you? Apparantly.

    I wasn’t..anyway…unless you are also easyliving.

  187. 187
    ppGaz says:

    Too bad he doesn’t follow through on his threats.

    Threat? It was a simple offer, you stupid loser fuck.

    I’ll gladly trade my space here for yours and your stupid buddies. You Stooges are trash. You can’t post without whining about “the left” and whining about our “vocabulary.”

    Know what I mean, Brian? We have to be lectured by YOU in order to use the word “incompetant” to describe these fucking assholes running the country, about which you yourself said …

    he is a liability. His management skills are horrible, and he makes decisions without adequately considering the impact to the giant enterprise he’s maneuvering. It’s one thing to be decisive, but you can be decisive and at the same time have a tremendously negative impact on your subordinates and their ability to successfully do their jobs

    That’s you, talking about Rumsfeld … but you want to come in here and lecture us about which words we can use to describe this cancer on the country? Our fucking words have to meet with your approval?

    Tell you what, Brian. You want to make this about you versus me? Go for it. You lost yesterday, you will lose today, and you will lose every fucking day. You will lose because you are defending a failed government and trying to tell us that we don’t have the right to say that.

    But keep it up, man. Keep making an ass of yourself.

  188. 188
    Brian says:

    We have to be lectured by YOU in order to use the word “incompetant”

    If you’re going to venture out of your monosylabbic mongoloidisms and use big-people words, at least learn how to spell them properly.

    The word is spelled INCOMPETENT. With you, the word’s meaning is clearly measured in multiple ways.

    Far be it for me to tell you what words to use. Maybe it’s best if you stick to the four-lettered ones to express yourself. But don’t be surprised if you get called out for such immature, retrograde behavior. Some of us here would prefer an elevated conversation, rather than roll around in the muck with the likes of you.

  189. 189
    Easyliving says:

    I could talk about scars. I could talk about the shrill crack of a desert wind at midnight in July, 9000 feet high.
    Yet all I’ll be known for is the pooh.

    I wouldn’t have it any other way.

    We win.

    Again.

    Easyliving

    I AM EASYLIVING

  190. 190
    Brian says:

    Caught my own misspelling above:

    It’s monosyllabic.

    But the difference is, I know it, whereas others are simply ignorant of their own shortcomings.

    Or, is it shotcummings, ppGaz?

    Back to your shit jokes now. I have better shit to do, kids.

  191. 191
    John S. says:

    Some of us here would prefer an elevated conversation, rather than roll around in the muck with the likes of you.

    Damn, that’s funny coming from the likes of you. Thanks for the laughs, kiddo.

  192. 192
    ppGaz says:

    Far be it for me to tell you what words to use.

    Anybody can read the thread, dipshit. Pretending the thread isn’t there is not quite convincing.

    Caught my own misspelling above:

    You’re a waste of fucking bandwidth.

  193. 193
    tb says:

    These generals inappropriately coming forward to criticize Sec Rumsfeld gives aid and comfort to the enemy. Notice how none of them were critics while they were in the military.

    Thankfully, the fine officers still serving our resolute Secretary of Defence have nothing to do with this unpatriotic behaviour at the expense of the USA. They are just interested in promoting their book deals and getting back at Rumsfeld for his revolutionary new ideas for modernizing our hidebound military. They will reveal their true colors when they all run for office as Democrats.

    They are just as bad as Wesley Clark, John Murtha, David Hackworth, Joe Wilson, Richard Clarke, and such back-stabbers as Gingrich, Fukayama, George Will and other so-called “conservatives”.

    Wow, could this be any more a textbook example of in inhabitant of Greenwald’s “resolute fantasy world”?

  194. 194
    Broken says:

    Wow, could this be any more a textbook example of in inhabitant of Greenwald’s “resolute fantasy world”?

    Heh,heh, it was a spoof. Of course, some on the far-right are so ludicrously insane that it really is hard to make the spoofing obvious.

    For example, Rush Limbaugh is now calling these guys “Clinton appointed generals”, naming Zinni in particular.

    Hilarious.

    Zinni was a frequent critic of Clinton WHILE STILL IN UNIFORM (funny how these guys are now being lambasted for speaking TOO SOON after retirement). Zinni endorsed Bush in 2000.

    Rush sees the ghost of Bill Clinton behind every screwup of this administration.

  195. 195
    capelza says:

    Rush sees the ghost of Bill Clinton behind every screwup of this administration.

    Don’t you mean the ghost of Vince Foster?

    What am I saying, the right supported Bill Clinton 100%. They never hounded him…well etc, etc, etc. And yet these same hypocrites have the audacity to whine and screech about the angry left or whatever the new catchword coming in on the wingnut secret decoder wing ring is on any given day.

    I think I hit my wingnut wall today. Doesn’t someone here have that ignore program?

  196. 196
    John S. says:

    Rush sees the ghost of Bill Clinton behind every screwup of this administration.

    Rush – as well as many other conservatives – are still absolutely petrified of the all powerful Clenis.

  197. 197
    John S. says:

    Don’t you mean the ghost of Vince Foster?

    Met the Ghost of Vincent Foster at the Hotel Paradise
    This is what I told him as I gazed into his eyes:
    Rooms were made for carpets,
    Towers made for spires,
    Ships were made for cannonade to fire off from inside them
    (Chorus): Gwine to run all night
    Gwine to run all day
    Camptown ladies never sang all the doo dah day no, no, no (End Chorus)
    (Chorus)
    Met the Ghost of Vincent Foster at the Hotel Paradise
    This is what I told him as I gazed into his eyes:
    Ships were made for sinking,
    Whiskey made for drinking,
    If we were made of cellophane, we’d all get stinking drunk quite faster ha, ha, ha
    (Chorus)
    (Chorus)

    It’s a Sqirrel Nut Zippers song. Well, almost.

  198. 198
    Easyliving says:

    Our road to victory in 2006 is near complete. Once the five year anniversary of 9/11 happens, Americans of all stripes and persuasions will choose, in an overwhelming style -reminisecent of nothing so much as the much vaunted Repulican takeover of 1994- and elect Republicans to strong majorities in the house and 57 Senators. Bank on it, and if you limpdicks want I can go race by race with you.

    Thing is, you punks have shown you can’t handle the damn truth. I AM EASYLIVING. I AM TRUTH.

  199. 199
    82 vet 1980 says:

    Just the fact that the brass will speak out is quite alarming. anyone who has served knows you dont speak out. theres got to be a real problem.

  200. 200
    Broken says:

    The Administration backlash against these six generals is massive. The LA Times ran a four article series where the generals got exactly TWO SENTENCES printed of their own words.

    The bulk of these LA Times articles consists of critics of the generals accusing them of everything but outright sedition. Even Scotty (I have nothing to say but I will take forever to say it) McClellen gets more direct quotes than the Generals themselves.

    Just to make sure you didn’t miss the point, the Times printed a highly critical (of the generals) Op-Ed as well. Obviously, this is a story the Admin wants to stamp out right now.

  201. 201
  202. 202
    ppGaz says:

    Oops, forgot: Thanks to DKos for the pointer ….

    Say, is that jackalope carrying a rosary?

  203. 203
    tb says:

    Heh,heh, it was a spoof. Of course, some on the far-right are so ludicrously insane that it really is hard to make the spoofing obvious.

    It was basically indistinguishable from the kind of shit these people actually live and breathe. Like porn movie titles, their perversion of language and logic is almost impossible to parody.

  204. 204
    Steve says:

    The enemy we’re dealing with, as represented by OBL, cares not one whit about Western justice. The fact that you don’t know this highlights your deep ignorance. You think Moussaoui cares, for instance, whether he lives in our federal prison, or dies by lethal injection?

    Of all the stupid rationalizations for why it’s a good thing we haven’t captured or killed Osama bin Laden, this might win the blue ribbon.

    They don’t care about Western justice, therefore, it’s useless to “bring them to justice.” Instead, we should just taunt them with speeches about how they live in a cave, secure in the knowledge that we will rebuild that WTC someday.

    3000 Americans died on 9/11, but bin Laden lives in a cave, so we automatically win without catching him! What a tribute to the power of positive thinking this Brian fellow is, or at least, a tribute to the power of making positive statements.

  205. 205
    capelza says:

    3000 Americans died on 9/11, but bin Laden lives in a cave, so we automatically win without catching him! What a tribute to the power of positive thinking this Brian fellow is, or at least, a tribute to the power of making positive statements.

    By that logic we should have let Eric Rudolph keep eating out of garbage cans and living in the woods….

    John S. Says:

    Don’t you mean the ghost of Vince Foster?

    Met the Ghost of Vincent Foster at the Hotel Paradise
    This is what I told him as I gazed into his eyes:
    Rooms were made for carpets,
    Towers made for spires,
    Ships were made for cannonade to fire off from inside them
    (Chorus): Gwine to run all night
    Gwine to run all day
    Camptown ladies never sang all the doo dah day no, no, no (End Chorus)
    (Chorus)
    Met the Ghost of Vincent Foster at the Hotel Paradise
    This is what I told him as I gazed into his eyes:
    Ships were made for sinking,
    Whiskey made for drinking,
    If we were made of cellophane, we’d all get stinking drunk quite faster ha, ha, ha
    (Chorus)
    (Chorus)

    I LOVE that…I’m stealing it!

  206. 206
    Krista says:

    My goodness. Brian’s rather…cranky, isn’t he? I simply expressed appreciation for Steve’s metaphor, and suddenly, I’m Exhibit B of “You act arrogant and pretentious, with no talent or smarts to back it up, and I’ll call you on it. I don’t suffer fools gladly, and there is no shortage of them here.”

    Imagine what he’d have said if I’d actually been talking to him…

  207. 207
    Bruce Moomaw says:

    Brian: “The administration, if it had enough sense about the value of public relations in dealing with the media and the public, would make use of the fact that we’re a free society, rebuilding the WTC site that OBL destroyed, agreeing and disagreeing about policy as free people, while he’s holed up in a cave or secret location with Zawahiri.”

    Yep, planning how to knock down the WTC’s replacement.

    While I’ll agree that we have, on purely strategic grounds, far higher priorities than catching OBL, or even his second-in-command who’s the real brains of the organization — such as preventing genuine honest-to-God nuclear proliferation (an effort to which our following the red herring of Iraq did immeasurable damage)– can Brian possibly be idiotic enough to think that the American people are going to cheerfully shrug off the fact that Bin Laden and Zawahiri are alive, uncaught, and apparently well? (And that Zawahiri, at least, is regularly attending group dinner parties, which doesn’t sound like a particularly uncomfortable lifestyle?)

  208. 208
    ppGaz says:

    can Brian possibly be idiotic enough to think that the American people are going to cheerfully shrug off the fact that Bin Laden and Zawahiri are alive, uncaught, and apparently well?

    Well, of course. My answer is based on reading Brian’s work here over a period of time.

    What Brian and all the kool aid drinkers don’t get is that to Bush, this is all about Bush. Bush the savior of the middle east. Bush the protector of America.

    Bush, fall 2001: Wanted, dead or alive.

    Bush, spring 2002: I’m really not that concerned with him.

    How could anyone, let alone the president, go from A to B in 120 days’ time? Remember that time, and what the country was experiencing.

    Bush didn’t care. Bush had a vision. That vision was culminated in the grotesque carrier-deck appearance about a year later.

    This whole story is about George Bush, not OBL. OBL is just a theatrical prop in the movie that George Bush thought he was making.

    Dead or alive? Justice? Feh. Bigger fish to fry.

  209. 209
    move on says:

    April 10, 2006, 6:55 a.m.
    Paying Attention
    More good news from Iraq.

    By Bill Crawford

    On the third anniversary of the liberation of Iraq, there is no denying that the political situation there is dicey. A coalition government hasn’t been formed, and a large reason for this is a lack of leadership on the part of Prime Minister Jaafari, who is refusing to resign. Nevertheless, there are stories of hope and progress everyday, and they continue to be largely ignored by the mainstream media.

    It’s striking that even the Kurdish Media sees bias in the mainstream media:

    The media in the U.S. and throughout the world has criticized the way the U.S. is handling the war in Iraq. They have published numerous articles that have heavily criticized US actions.

    However, they fail to communicate the “good things” that are happening in Iraq. Nearly 2,000 educational institutions have been rehabilitated with USAID funding, unemployment has dropped considerably, and more hospitals are being built in the rural areas.

    (more examples follow)

    Iraq received the new Italian ambassador this week. His country has allocated 200 million Euros to the reconstruction of Iraq. The projects will focus on providing potable water and power plants.

    In related news, a power plant opened just south of Basra. More than 500 Iraqis were employed in the $128 million project, which adds 5 percent to the country’s electrical output:

    The Khor Az Zubayr plant will generate a substantial amount of power which will be transmitted and distributed across the country. Additional electric projects are ongoing. Although electricity is not at levels expected by U.S. residents, most Iraqi families are now getting more electricity than ever before; some for the first time ever.
    Air Rafidayn will soon begin flights between three Iraqi cities and the Chinese city of Guangzhou. These will be the first direct flights to China since the first Gulf War.

    On Monday the third annual Rebuild Iraq Expo will open in Jordan. Companies from 32 countries will be there to take advantage of the enormous opportunities in Iraq:

    The minister highlighted the role of the private sector and the benefits it can reap from the rebuilding of Iraq and the exchange of expertise and information with the international companies.

    The Sweetwater Canal near Basra is undergoing renovations. When the project is completed it will provide cleaner water to 2.5 million Iraqis.

    The canal has experienced problems with leakage, bank collapse, breaches and other structural problems; according to USACE, many of these problems were emergency repairs under the contract just completed.

    The project included a geotechnical survey, pump assessment, head and sluice gate repairs, trash rack refurbishment, sediment removal, engine hydraulics and electronics overhauls, emergency canal repairs, operations training, design for permanent power for Pump Station Two and a computer system to track operations and maintenance.

    Opportunities for women continue to be the focus for the Gulf Regional Division. A conference held in Baghdad gave more than 250 Iraqi business women the chance to learn how to receive government contracts and a chance to network with their counterparts:

    According to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers GRD, many speakers spoke of how proud they were to be working with the Iraqi business women, gave tips on how to build their businesses and how to build their network of business contacts.
    Japan has agreed to build a $119 million power plant for the city of Samawa. The first of three power plants for the province of 200,000 should be completed in under two years. Japan also agreed to provide $300 million to help modernize the country’s largest sea port at Umm Qasr.Renovations on the Tikrit courthouse are complete:

    The electrical renovation included new wiring and fixtures throughout the old building; bringing it to a standard which will support modern computer and electronic technology. A newly constructed annex building adds capacity to the facility and provides for a more efficient work flow. Included in the new annex is a reception area, restrooms and office spaces that will improve the functionality of the courthouse.
    On the third anniversary of the invasion, troops who have returned to Iraq three years later have noticed the progress being made:

    “One of the biggest differences in Baghdad, and throughout Iraq… is that the Iraqi military is doing really well, and they’re taking over more pieces of the mission,” said Army Sgt. Maj. Linda Allen. “The second biggest difference that I see [between now and three years ago] is the infrastructure issue.”

    The troops that spoke also said that the media and politicians need to have patience with the mission in Iraq.

    U.S. and Iraqi troops conducted a free medical clinic for the residents of Tarmiya. The town’s leader expressed his thanks:

    “Great things are happening here! This plan was put out in the Qada meeting,” said Sheik Saeed Jassim Hameed Al-Mashadani, the Qada leader. “I have a good feeling (about the medical operation) today because the people get free medical attention.”

    “We have a good relationship with coalition forces,” added Jassim.

    375 patients were seen in clinic.

    A Marine general says the military can sustain current troop level in Iraq indefinitely, contradicting the claims of many opponents of the war that Iraq is “breaking” the military.

    The two-week long Operation Cowpens ended this week. The operation resulted in the seizure of a significant amount of weapons and explosives:

    Coalition forces have captured two dozen rifles, more than 10,000 rounds of ammunition and nearly three dozen rocket-propelled grenade launchers. Artillery and mortar rounds have also been plenty in the recovered items.

    Soldiers on the scene estimated that enough explosive material has been found, along detonation cord and signaling devices, to rig up more than 300 improvised explosive devices. These roadside bombs have been an ongoing challenge to Soldiers in Bradley- Fighting Vehicles and in Humvees.

    “We’ve put a stop to a lot of the IED making,” said Sgt. Daniel Reinhardt, a team leader from Broadview, Mont. “The more we’re out here, the more we stuff we bring out, the less the bad guys are here.

    In Tikrit, four large weapon caches were uncovered during a joint U.S.-Iraqi operation. The caches included 27,000 rounds of ammo, four surface-to-air missiles, 118 artillery shells, as well as other assorted munitions. Seventeen suspects were detained.

    Near Balad, an attack was repelled by an Iraqi-army unit, which returned fire after three gunmen attacked it. The attackers were later killed after firing on U.S. soldiers who arrived as backup.

    In a combined U.S.-Iraqi operation, 99 rocket propelled grenades were captured.

    In Yusifiyah, nine terrorist were detained, and one killed, in an operation by coalition forces.

    A large weapons cache was uncovered in Balad:

    The find includes more than 2,000 rounds of 7.62 ammunition, 337 60 mm mortar rounds, six 82 mm mortar rounds, two 60 mm mortar tubes, two mortar tripods (one of which had a base), one 125 mm projectile, one barrel of gun powder and 31 assorted munitions.

    Near Hamaniyah, coalition forces killed eight terrorists in a raid. The operation also uncovered weapons, ammunition, and false identification documents.

    This weekend a joint U.S.-Iraqi operation led to the capture of two terror-cell leaders, and 60 other terrorists.

    This story is the kind that really warms my heart. Two terrorists in Baqubah were killed when the bomb they were making went off prematurely.

    A top aid to Zarqawi was captured by the U.S. military. He was involved in the kidnapping of Italian Guiliani Sgrena:

    ..

    His arrest was a serious defeat for the terrorists in Iraq:

    Officials believe Abu Ayman’s capture will not only disrupt some of these attacks, and that his capture will undoubtedly save lives, but that he will also provide valuable information leading to the capture of other terrorists he has worked with in the past.

    Acting on tips from local Iraqis, three hostages were rescued by U.S. and Iraqi forces in Mosul. The hostages were found chained to the wall of a basement.

    The Iraqi army has assumed control of the province of Salah Eddin. The province is a stronghold for terrorists and ex-Baathists.

    How about some stories of real American heroes?

    Capt. Frank Diorio was awarded the Bronze Star for action in Iraq:

    On April 11, insurgents launched an attack against the firm base using small arms fire, rocket propelled grenades and three suicide vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices.

    For several hours, the enemy continued the well-organized assault with intense, sporadic firefights that continued for the next three days.

    Diorio’s quick reactions, concise orders and sound decisions enabled his company to repel the enemy attack while inflicting a high number of casualties.

    No Marines from the company were killed during the attack.

    Senior Airman Daniel Acosta II was awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart for his actions in Iraq. He was injured while disarming an IED:

    Acosta was serving as an explosive ordnance disposal technician Dec. 7 with a team assigned to investigate a crater for explosive devices. Acosta discovered and detonated one device, but another one exploded. Acosta lost an arm.

    This week, the 1st Cavalry Division will be dedicating a memorial to its soldiers killed in Iraq. The monument will honor the 168 soldiers from the division who lost their lives in Iraq.

    Two Marines with the 1st Marine Division were awarded the Bronze Star for action under fire:

    [Russel] also discovered that a Marine low on ammunition was isolated by the attack.

    Russel then raced across approximately 75 meters of open terrain while under fire from at least six insurgents with Cyparski close by.

    An enemy round struck Russel in the helmet, knocking him to the ground with a concussion.

    The two Marines managed to get the ammunition to the isolated Marine with Russel bleeding profusely from wounds to his face and arms.

    They then rushed back to direct the fight and establish accountability. Finding two men missing, the two Marines rushed across the open area again to retrieve a wounded Iraqi soldier despite explosions from more than twelve enemy grenades and a stream of machine gun and small-arms fire.

    An Army Reservist killed in Iraq was awarded the Silver Star:

    Witkowski was firing a .50-caliber machine gun mounted on a Humvee that was providing cover for a convoy when an improvised explosive device entered the vehicle. Witkowski threw his body, covering the IED as it exploded and killed him, in an act which saved the lives of others.

    The good news continues — maybe you’ll start seeing it from more venues soon.

    — Bill Crawford lives in San Antonio, Texas. He blogs at All Things Conservative.

    More: http://www.nationalreview.com/.....100655.asp

    Success can be measured by the amount of bad headlines

    Why do you people not tell our story? Why do you not say what is going on? Why do you come to our country and see what is happening, you see the schools and the hospitals and you see the markets and you eat with Sunni and Shia soldiers – everybody eats together, everybody works together –you see that Saddam is gone forever and we are free to speak and complain.
    You see we are working and eating together and fighting together – Sunni and Shia – you see what we are building here, you see the votes we make as one people. Then you say to the world about a great war and horrible things and how we are all killing each other? We are not animals! We are Iraqis. Look around you! Look!

    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/.....E_ID=49739

    Western journalists aiding global jihad

    http://littlegreenfootballs.co.....d#comments

    BTW, here is what Gen Pace said on this matter on 04/11:

    “In the last couple of days there have been several articles, opinion pieces, editorials about the responsibility of senior U.S. military officers to speak up, to tell the truth as we know it, and that is a sacred obligation of all of us who are fortunate to represent all the members of the armed forces and to have the opportunity to participate at this level.

    Let me just give you Pete Pace’s rendition of how the process worked building up to Iraq. First of all, once it became apparent that we may have to take military action, the Secretary of Defense asked Tom Franks, who was the commander of Central Command, to begin doing some planning, which he did. Over the next two years, 50 or 60 times, Tom Franks either came to Washington or by video teleconference, sat down with the Secretary of Defense, sat down with the Joint Chiefs and went over what he was thinking, how he was planning. And as a result of those iterative opportunities and all the questions that were asked, not once was Tom told, “No, don’t do that. No, don’t do this. No, you can’t have this. No, you can’t have that.” What happened was, in a very open roundtable discussion, questions about what might go right, what might go wrong, what would you need, how would you handle it, and that happened with the Joint Chiefs and it happened with the Secretary.”

    Interesting indeed.

    Comment by The Ace | 4/13/2006

    *http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2006/tr20060411-12800.html

    Retired Air Force General Thomas McInerney

    TM: “..I’m somewhat surprised, but when I read their comments, I’m embarrassed for them. For instance, Zinni wants stability in the region. He says it’s not an ideology we’re fighting. Hugh, we are fighting an ideology as bad as Communism, Nazism and Facism. It’s Islamic extremism. That is our problem there. If General Tony Zinni doesn’t understand that, who I used to have great respect for, and he was the commander of Central Command, I think we’re in deep trouble.”

    4/13/2006 – 9:32 pm

    http://polipundit.com/wp-comme.....nt-4137546

  210. 210
    G. Gordon Giddy says:

    Good Lord! Brian is, an idiot!

  211. 211
    The Other Steve says:

    It’s interesting. We’re under constant attack by islamofundamentalism. Accusations that our secular society has made us weak.

    And the Republican answer is to capitulate to islamofundamentalists by trying to outlaw secularism.

    Islamofundamentalists hate us for our freedoms, and apparently so too do Republicans.

  212. 212
    db says:

    Looks like the left is going after JC’s good blogger friend, protein wisdom:

    View on left of Goldstein’s comments.

    What we’re seeing evolve here is a debate between the right and left about civilian control of the military. The strong advocates for Rummy are incorrectly implying that the Rummy’s critics don’t want civilian control of the military. They make this implication by showing how the left has cheered on those generals who are criticizing Rummy (never mind the irony that the right is cheering on the likes of Pace, Franks, and Rifle DeLong). The left has had to “adopt” these critical generals to demonstrate that they are not anti-military, just anti-this-administration. They were forced to do so because any criticism they level against the administration is labeled “unpatriotic”.

    The right lambastes these critical generals – “They should have spoken up when they had the chance!!” But it is that assertion that undermines the very criticism the right is leveling against the left – civilian control of the military. These generals claim that they did speak up. The only way they could have spoken up any louder against Rummy and his desires would have been a quasi-coup, thereby undermining the basis of civilian control of the military.

    Now that these retired generals are civilians, let them speak up about their belief about Rummy. Now that they are civilians, it is NOT the case that advocacy of their position implies relinquishing civilian control over the military.

  213. 213
    ppGaz says:

    Now that they are civilians, it is NOT the case that advocacy of their position implies relinquishing civilian control over the military.

    Of course a minor detail such as their civilian status won’t stop the Mehlmanites and the other bonesmokers from claiming that the generals’ criticism “undermines” civilian control of the military.

    These people will lie about anything. Anything, anywhere, any time.

  214. 214
    Broken says:

    move on Says:

    April 10, 2006, 6:55 a.m.
    Paying Attention
    More good news from Iraq.

    By Bill Crawford

    On the third anniversary of the liberation of Iraq, there is no denying that the political situation there is dicey. A coalition government hasn’t been formed, and a large reason for this is a lack of leadership on the part of Prime Minister Jaafari, who is refusing to resign. Nevertheless, there are stories of hope and progress everyday, and they continue to be largely ignored by the mainstream media.

    Yeah, yeah, largely ignored by the mainstream media, who are the REAL REASON Iraq is such a mess.

    How about these facts?

    Production of electricity is still below pre-war levels.

    Oil Production: below pre-war levels.

    Farm production: below pre-war levels.

    School attendence, employment, availability of medical facilities and security all BELOW pre-war levels. Yeah, all the good news is being missed by the media.

  215. 215

    Tommy Franks on Hardball

  216. 216

    […] These days it seems as though the administration has driven the evenhanded moderates and even rightwingers with intellectual credibility past the breaking point. Gregory Djerejian passed me up months ago, along with what seems like the entire retired leadership of the US military. John Cole, of course. Even unapologetic trog-cons like Cold Fury (e.g., libs lost Vietnam) agree that the present leadership deserves to go: […]

  217. 217

    […] Practically every retired General blames Donald Rumsfeld, as do the major newspapers serving the US military: […]

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] Practically every retired General blames Donald Rumsfeld, as do the major newspapers serving the US military: […]

  2. […] These days it seems as though the administration has driven the evenhanded moderates and even rightwingers with intellectual credibility past the breaking point. Gregory Djerejian passed me up months ago, along with what seems like the entire retired leadership of the US military. John Cole, of course. Even unapologetic trog-cons like Cold Fury (e.g., libs lost Vietnam) agree that the present leadership deserves to go: […]

  3. Tommy Franks on Hardball

  4. The Blood Continues to Flow

    I’m busy today, and of course Binky’s still out of town so this week’s light posting will continue for a bit longer. But it occurred to me that we hadn’t had an Iraq post up just lately so …If the…

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