Apparently the big concern among anti-immigration activists is that eventually Mexico will try to take back the American southwest. You could come up with reasons why the idea would not work, but my first reaction was that we could probably get a sweet deal for Texas.
OK let’s admit that the whole idea is battier than a bowl of fruit loops. As long as we’re talking about reconquista, though, I have a Mexican rock compilation of that name which rocks the bolts off of my car. Great music (influences range from the Bosstones to delta blues to the Clash) and it has the special coolness when you have an album that nobody else can get.
Consider this my deeply-thought-out contribution to the immigration debate.
BumperStickerist
I think the concern is less that Mexico will try to take back the American Southwest than the American Southwest will try to rejoin Mexico through, possibly, secession.
Which is okay with me.
El Presidente Juan McCain … he’s the sort of straight-talking hombre that gringo President Jeb Bush could work with, during Jeb’s second term.
.
Par R
While it’s undoubtedly true that some of the more extreme elements within the immigrant movement speak of reconquista, it is doubtful that very many on the other side of the debate take those claims very seriously. Some may give voice to them, but probably only as a means of building support for their agenda, which remains enhanced border security and denial of anything that approaches “amnesty.” For what little it’s worth, I personally feel that their worries over the latter issue are overblown, but the concerns over the absence of any significant border security are quite legitimate.
tBone
I think this is a real opportunity for a true bipartisan solution. Give ’em back Texas and California – it’s a win-win.
ppGaz
Christ, another spoof.
Bumperstickitupyourass, take it from people who live in Arizona … John McCain is not a “straight-talking hombre.” He’s a lying fucking weasel who will say and do anything to become president. Or suck up to a president. Or whatever it takes to get and have power. The man does not have an ethical bone in his body. Watch him on Press the Meat a couple weeks ago. You might never again see such a display of dissembling, waffling, and lying in so short a time.
ppGaz
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srv
My two home states. Anytime, baby. Together, they represent about 40% of the GDP. The US is more of a drag on them than Mexico would ever be.
S.W. Anderson
I don’t think anyone seriously expects secession or some kind of overt takeover.
What’s possible, however, is a situation where at some future time you could have such large Mexican-American populations in several Southwest states that no one, there or elsewhere in the country, would want to cross them politically. That could mean a serious divided-loyalties showdown of some kind, should a U.S.-Mexico conflict arise.
I don’t suggest this is going to happen. I’m just saying there is the potential.
stickler
Source?
New York? Illinois? The whole God-damned (and I mean that) Old Confederacy?
“…more of a drag than Mexico would ever be.”
Guadalajara? Tijuana?
Has SRV ever left his/her/its basement?
JWeidner
I think that the original figure is wrong, but not by as much as you might think. California alone regularly registers as one of the largest world economies – usually falling in somewhere around 5th or 6th world wide. New York is approximately 60% the size of CA’s economy.
Source
I’ll have to do some searching, but I believe that Texas is the US’ third largest economy, after CA and NY.
So while I don’t think that CA and TX account for 40% of the total US GDP, they certainly represent a significant amount. The loss of these 2 states would have a highly detrimental effect on overall US GDP.
The loss of CA alone would do significant damage to the US economy.
Jay
The loss of CA alone would do significant damage to the US economy.
Yes, but throwing Texas in there would be a serious drag on California. For all the misplaced pride that Texans have in their state, most of it is only slightly less third world than Mississippi.
Par R
ppGaz writes:
Without a doubt, this is the most articulate, cogent and intelligent thought ever put down by the little crybaby known as, ppGaz.
Bob In Pacifica
I thought California was going to secede with Oregon and Washington and form Ecotopia.
Bob In Pacifica
And then merge with France and become Eclairtopia.
Paddy O'Shea
Tim, Reconquista is readily available on Amazon. Which, by your standards, definitely lowers the coolness factor considerably.
However, it is currently ranked at #187,139, which gives you some points back. Knowing about something nobody else is aware of is a solid plus.
As I understand it, a rank that low on Amazon translates into about .75 sales a month. Then again, even Amazon admits they’re more of an information source than a retailer of music these days. iTunes having eaten their lunch and then some.
Cyrus
I dunno, we’ve survived with the old Confederacy voting as a bloc for a century, with few ill effects to the rest of the country other than having to put up with at least one grammatically-challenged folksy drawl per Presidential ticket.
That doesn’t address the possibility of future hostilities with Mexico, of course, or conflicts with them in general. But even right now a whole lot of our foreign policies are based on domestic political calculations as much as if not more than pragmatic self-interest or idealism. An increased concern for Mexico would change the balance of those calculations, but that’s about it.
Angry Engineer
It would seem that what you call a “spoof”, the rest of us probably call a “sarcastic post”. Unless, that is, I’ve missed something with Mr. Bumper Sticker in the past.
Anyways, having enjoyed Matthew Bracken’s “Enemies Foreign and Domestic”, I’m looking forward to his sequel “Domestic Enemies” that kinda ties into this whole topic. Yea, I know I’ll get roasted by some for that, but I don’t give a fuck.
Paddy O'Shea
You people are missing the point about this so-called immigration issue. This is a mostly a recently manufactured load of bollocks designed to frighten hapless mid-American honkies. The GOP is in desperate need of a wedge issue for the 2006 elections, and things having gotten as bad as they are has forced the erstwhile Party of Lincoln to take a page out of the 1968 George Wallace playbook.
Race baiting plain and simple. Lester Maddox, move over. Here comes Bill Frist and John McCain.
The Other Steve
Just as long as we never have a President from Texas ever again, we’ll let you stay.
Davebo
We were going to seceed years ago but we had to wait till you bailed out our S&L’s first.
capelza
That’s only northern California. By northern California, I mean everything above the Bay Area, a good three hundred mile stretch. There’s even an old Russian fort on that coast. Eureka is where the Mediterranean and Scandinavian heritages meet, at least in the fleet.
When I was a younger girl I lived in Humboldt County from the time I was 11 to 21. There was always some petition to let us leave California and the reps would present it to the legislature and it would be thrown out. We have the water, they’ll never let us go.
And then there is the State of Jefferson, which would combine north CA and southern OR. Both areas that get completely ignored by the urban areas that suck the life out of them. Though as a liberal, I always kinda figured Jefferson could turn into the kind of place Idaho dreams of being.
VidaLoca
S.W. Anderson,
I tried to think of a historical analogy for your point here.
The case of the German-American Bund in the 1930s came to mind — they were arguing for a US policy of pacifism and neutrality toward Germany as Hitler re-armed. There, you had a substantial part of the US population with ties, via immigration, to Germany. You had public figures such as Henry Ford supporting their position. You had stong public opposition to getting involved in another war, which had little to do with sympathy toward Germany and everything to do with disgust for the debacle that was WWI. I tend to think that it was the latter fact that made the Bund a political force up until Pearl Harbor — after that they pretty much disappeared from the radar.
So, it seems to me that you can make an argument for a precdent — but the validity of the argument is context-specific: the seriousness of the showdown would depend on the issues in the conflict and how they played among the population as a whole, not just those with historic ties to Mexico. Which is not that surprising if you think about it.
Besides, a US-Mexico conflict of any serious degree seems unlikely. A US-China conflict on the other hand, does not: with the Chinese holding as much of their debt as they do, with the trade balance being what it is, how long will we have a foreign policy other than what the Chinese tell us our policy should be?
srv
Try google. CA is $1.8+T, TX is over $800B. Add Mexico, and you’re easily over 30%.
NY, IL? What, the leeches on NYC and Chicago? NYC alone is as big as the TX GDP.
Outside of TX, and maybe Atlanta, I’m not sure what the rest of the Red America heartland produces. Place like Vegas and Raleigh could just as easily go blue. If we ended the WoD, I’m sure Miama would be productive.
If the Blue states pulled out, the Red states would have a hard time beating Italy. And AZ and NV would go with the Blue states.
I don’t know why nobody ever does it, but take the Blue, Purple and Red counties and come up with a GDP statement. Just because they have 1/2 the voters doesn’t mean they do anywhere near 1/2 the work.
Unlimited cheap labor and goods filling up all WalMart near you. We’d be able to take China on.
Bush is a faux-Texan. All hat and no cattle.
Zifnab
I can’t find the article, but a few years back I read a poll asking Mexican nationals if they’d consider becoming a US state if it promised them US benefits – ie. minimum wage, social security, health care, etc – and there was a majority in favor.
That said, why on god’s green earth would millions of illegals flee across the boarder – presumably to escape low wages and poor working conditions in Mexico – just so they could ‘reclaim’ a large chunk of the Southwest for the country they were apparently fleeing out of horror and disgust? It’s like claiming the Jews emmigrated from Germany to expand the Third Riech.
Brian
Tim is a flatulent mongoloid. Posts full of sarcasm and heated rhetoric, but zero substance, and one issue he should never touch is this one. He obviously has not, is not, and likely will not be affected by illegal immigration like I am, so he should go back to gargling sperm from homeless juveniles. It’s the only explanation for the polluted thinking that clouds his brain, and he’s too far gone to come back to reality.
What un-fucking-believeable hubris it took for him to write this post and link to such an irresponsible take on illegal immigration.
capelza
Okay, I am out of the loop…is Brian a troll, being sracastic for humours sake, or a full on wingnut’s wingnut?
Par R
That post appears at least somewhat over the top, Brian. While the piece Linked to from Kevin Drum, who admittedly is a bit of a knee-jerk lefty, is hardly “fair and balanced,” I don’t believe it warrants the over reaction in your post.
tBone
I don’t get Brian. One day he’s fairly reasonable and cracking jokes, the next he’s frothing like a Freeper on a 2-week meth binge. Brian, buddy – adjust the bipolar meds.
Darrell
Brian, what’s gotten into you boy? I hope you mom isn’t reading this blog
Tim F wrote
You know, I agree with you, but more mexican americans and mexican immigrants believe that “batty” idea than you could imagine. Here in Houston, the mexican americans and mexican immigrants raised such an uproar over naming our new soccer team the “1836-ers”, the year of Houston’s founding, because that was also the year that Texas won independence from Mexico – so much uproar that they had to change the name of the team. Let me repeat that: In 2006, many Mexican immigrants are still wound up on Texas winning independance from Mexico 170 year ago.. to the point that they forced a name change of the soccer team in the 4th largest city in the US.
I’m wondering when the pricks will want to change Houston’s name from the general who kicked Santa Ana’s ass.. as that must be a such a source of shame for them
capelza
So how about we change all the Spanish geographic names in the U.S?
Start with Texas and California, Colorado, Montana, Nevada…etc. Then the counties, the towns, the mountains, the rivers, my god…the Strait of San Juan de Fuca all the way up in Washington.
Tim F.
I have no doubt that the idea has its supporters. America still has Nazis, which goes to show you that any nutty idea will find followers somewhere. Whether it has any mainstream appeal, even among first-generation illegal immigrants, I highly doubt, and the possibility of the idea ever working seems less probable than Canada taking the lower 48 and selling Alaska back to Russia.
About the year thing, it’s amazing how far cultural memory reaches back. I know Swiss (immigrants to America) who still get worked up over a war with Austria which started and finished in the early fourteenth century. Some days it seems like we Americans have an almost unique ability to forget our own cultural history.
Zifnab
Sometimes I wonder how wingnut crazies can continue to believe that Evolution is a lie (and that man and dinosaur co-existed in peaceful utopia), that Iraq is a paragon of peace and prosperity (and only the evil liberal media is funnelling support for insurgents), that supply-side economics and billion dollar bail-outs for trillion dollar mega-corps will help our economy prosper (my gasoline is selling for $2.85/gallon, how about yours?)
Then I see them parade out their “facts” on reconquista and I can’t help but laugh. No wonder the right fears Universities while it defends torture, promoting wiretapping of US citizens while it guts free speech. Republicans and their racist, homophobic, money-whoring, wife-beating, kiddy-porn watching, zealotous, war-mongering, rape-room approving, Koran flushing, America-hating base don’t give a flying flip about “facts”. They’ve waged war on a bunch of brown people for love of blood and oil, killing tens of thousands of innocent men, women, and children to sait their vile lust for human lives. Now they want to wage war on another group of brown people, just closer to home.
To fly in the face of Godwin’s law, these race-baiters, these fear-mongers are nothing less than the newest incarnation of the old Nazi regime, with Mexicans being bagged and tagged as one more race to be wiped off the face of the earth. Fifty foot walls, boarder prisons, and we’ve already waved aside such trite international standards like the Geneva Convention. Pretty soon, we can have “the convicts [who] pick the fruit” be the same 12 million folks we just threw in prison. And if we’ve got to many, I’m sure someone will suggest we just gas them.
The Other Steve
I don’t know. 1836’ers is a pretty dumb name for a soccer team.
So look on the bright side.
Darrell
Such clear-thinking, erudite argument from the left. I’m sure everyone who disagreed with you before, has now been shown the error of their ways
Darrell
You have a point there
VidaLoca
Darrell,
Heh. NPR ran a story on the 1836’ers just this morning. First I heard it, I was thinking “1836er — WTF is that about?” But, people get passionate about their histories; that year might mean a lot more to someone else than it does to me. People get passionate about sports teams too; I’d be willing to say that people all over the world get more passionate about soccer than we do about almost any sport here in the States. That may very well be why it’s coming here, and coming to the Southwest specifically.
Anyhow, NPR was interviewing either the owner of the Houston team or the president of the league, I don’t remember which, but he was apologizing all over the place for the insensitivity. For obvious reasons: they want to draw fans to see the games and soccer has a very short history north of the border.
Par R
zifnab wrote –
With such reasoned discourse, I’m convinced…convinced that zifnab is on drugs….or a monkey that’s been randomly hitting keys on a PC.
Darrell
What I don’t get is why the name 1836-ers would be considered ‘insensitive’ in the US.. Is Texas naming their largest city after the very general who defeated the mexican army also considered insensitive?
Should immigrants from England take offense over our ‘insensitive’ celebration of July 4th?
ppGaz
Brian is trying to find a voice that works. He appears to be genuine righty, but his rhetorical excursions make him look spoofy at times.
Mostly, Brian wants attention, and maybe some friendship.
But here’s his problem … lefties are not likely to make friends with him, based on his content so far. And the righties around here …. well, let me put it this way: They don’t pal up, because they don’t like each other any more than we like them. Who could like them?
Who wants to chum up with Darrell, for example? Or Par?
So that’s Brian’s dilemma. He can’t make friends on the left and is too classy to want to be friends with any of the righties around here.
So he is thrashing around.
Soon this phase will end, but I don’t really know what the next phase will be.
Darrell
You speak as if you know him well ppg. Maybe the guy had a bad day. Who cares?.. We know that’s never happened to you, as your posts are always so rational and never over the top
ppGaz
Aw, shut up, you stupid jerk.
VidaLoca
Darrell,
Yeah, I didn’t get it at first either. But hey, the anglos did march in, lop off what — the top 1/3? 1/4? — of the country, take all the good land, drive the original residents off it or make war against those who wanted to stay… I mean, I can see how they’d be a little tetchy, even after 170 years.
Well, the analogy there would be if we had sailed over and “liberated” Ireland… but still, you raise an interesting point. The people who might feel kind of bent out of shape would be the British loyalists who moved up to Canada to get away from the “radical” anti-colonialists; I have no idea how they feel about that piece of history.
Davebo
Bummer. Can’t get a gig mowing lawns?
The Other Steve
Maybe they should have named it the Houston Krauts, to honor the German immigration heritage of the state?
Par R
Who would have ever expected “philosophy,” of a sort, from good old ppGaz, every post office’s worst nightmare? And he apparently has the egotistical belief that someone would wish to get to “know him.”
While it is said that a dog is man’s best friend, I have a feeling that not even Lassie could put up with ppGaz. Perhaps a dog with rabies could get along with ppGaz??? There appear to be similarities in attitude/behavior/intelligence.
VidaLoca
Zifnab,
NPR had on the head of one of the Minuteman groups last night, reading a prepared statement. For them it was kind of an unusual format because it wasn’t an interview deal where the Minuteman would be challenged on his statement — instead he just read it off the page. And it was well done, I’ll give him that: he carefully conflated every issue in the debate; whipped up images of hordes of smugglers crossing the border; used all the code words about “crime” and “drugs” and “our ethnic heritage”; brought in the panacea of a double wall from Galveston to San Diego.
He covered all the bases for white supremacy in a rant that lasted no more than 30 seconds. Another opportunist, trying to use wedge issues to gain influence and power he could never achieve through an honest exposition of his ideas.
Time and again though, the wedge issue strategy pays off, and the reason it works is that the issues are real: in this case you can’t have big demographic shifts from one region to another without it causing some consequences. In a context of declining middle-class jobs, increasing taxes and cost of living it’s not unusual that there would be people who would feel that their tenuous hold on their lifestyle would be threatened, who would be receptive to a solution that defined some other (any other) group as “outsiders” and kept them outside, while providing them with a sense of security on the inside. The whole idea is to pull up the drawbridge, as long as they’re inside the castle.
That said though, I don’t think everyone who self-identifies as a conservative (or even who supports the war in Iraq) is buying into this stuff. Nor does pointing out the problems that immigration is causing in some parts of the Southwest necessarily make one a racist. That last step is one that some people take, others turn away from.
BumperStickerist
See, pp, the point about El Presidente Juan McCain was that he’d be president of Mexico. Because ‘Juan’ is the Spanish name for “John” and “el Presidente” is Spanish for ‘the president’ and, you know, they speak Spanish in many parts of Mexico.
Also Jeb Bush would be President of the United States and that this whole Reconquista deal with John (Juan) McCain being elected President of Mexico would happen during Jeb Bush’s second term.
Which is a ways off, at a minimum, 7-10 years.
But, thanks for playing.
Remember: You’re a Very.Smart.Person.
Cheers.
Darrell
How about just plain old right and wrong? Playing by the rules and obeying our laws. It’s entirely reasonable to object to a system which allows so many to skip the line over those waiting to come legally, who come here in violation of our laws. One doesn’t have to be paranoid of outsiders or suffer from a ‘tenous hold’ on their lifestyle as you suggest, to object to what’s happening with illegal immigration.
As of now, approx 55% of illegal immigrants come from Mexico. Why should mexicans get such immigration priority over immigrants from Bulgaria, Cambodia, or Chile? Because by coming here illegally, they are dictating to us who comes, which means less slots open for those who want to come here legally. What’s more, an out-of-control border means we cannot screen out the rapists and murderers (and terrorists?) among them. I read that 17% of federal prison population are illegal immigrants.
Personally, I think we need to increase legal immigration while cracking down on illegal immigration.. Rewarding those who respect our laws rather than those who intentionally violate them.
S.W. Anderson
VidaLoca, your response to my comment is full of excellent points, ones I mostly agree with.
I will add that the awkwardness, for lack of a better term, needn’t be as extreme or dramatic as that involving the bunds and a foreign power we eventually went to war with (again).
Probably more than an out-and-out showdown, you’d have an ongoing chilling effect on the actions and decisions of U.S. politicians. They would take care not to offend Mexian Americans and would seek to avoid situations that might result in many people being conflicted by divided loyalties.
Darrell
Please.. Texas was part of Mexico for all of 14 years. You act as if there was some long history there. The newly independent mexico was trying to grab as much land as it could north and south. Before that, Meixco was Spain’s territory with a few French incursions, as Mexico had been controlled by the Spanish and French. And there were mexicans who fought on behalf of Texas independence
You’re making excuses for the ridiculous obsession of many mexicans over losing Texas in a war of independence 170 years ago
VidaLoca
Darrell,
Under several different governments, people were making a livelihood and raising their families on the land. That’s the “history” that matters in people’s lives. Governments come and go; one day a new one came and suddenly the people who thought the place was theirs found they had an “immigrant problem”: one that left them expropriated and disenfranchised.
Well, call it what you want. I would have said I was trying to understand the phenomenon that you brought up, based on some understanding of the history, and offer a different point of view. Whether you offer an alternative, or claim I’m “making excuses”, or do something else is up to you. As usual around here, YMMV.
VidaLoca
Darrell,
On this, I’m in agreement with you. I’m also in agreement that there are probably some people coming in who do indeed deserve to be expelled back where they came from ASAP if not tried and jailed.
Best answer I can offer — and I don’t really think it’s a great answer frankly — it’s the law of large numbers. We can set immigration quotas until hell freezes and in the end it’s like trying to set a quota on gravity.
ppGaz
They speak more and better Spanish right here on my street. The whole reconquista idea is bullshit.
VidaLoca
SW Anderson,
Not trying to be (too) snarky here but I can’t resist:
and this would be a bad thing how…?
if the politicians were doing this out of a desire to represent the interests and opinions of their constituents (OK, let’s just assume for the sake of the discussion that this happens sometimes) — wouldn’t that be what they’re supposed to be doing?
Darrell
Texas was sparsely populated under spanish rule, just a miniscule percentage of the mexican population. And even among this tiny number, many of those newly independent mexicans making a livelihood in Texas joined the fight for independence from mexico. Those you refer to who had been there for generations would not have had strong ties to Mexico city.
It seemed to me that you were giving legitimacy to their (extremist imo) viewpoint, making it seem ‘understandable’ for them under the circumstances. But as you say, YMMV
Darrell
As long as employers are not targeted and punished, and as long as we continue to allow paper Social Security cards w/no photo and no fingerprint info on it.. making it a snap to counterfeit. As long as that continues, along with an attitude of “there’s nothing we can do to stop them”.. we’re going to see much, much more of the same with illegal immigration
VidaLoca
Darrell,
Well, we may be talking past each other here to some degree. You did begin by objecting to the “reconquista” concept and I agree, that line seems both extremist and nonsensical to me. As to how many people actually buy into it, you’d know better than I but I’m not one of them.
I was referring more to the other phenomenon you brought up, the local feelings about calling the soccer team the “1836ers” based on a sense of historical injustice about how that whole thing went down.
I see them as two separate issues though.
Darrell
yeah, that was what I thought you were doing.. providing legitimacy to those who gave objection to naming the Houston soccer team 1836-ers, which I think was ridiculous and extreme, although not as extreme as the Reconquista nonsense.. The Texas territory was never a significant part of mexico – not population wise, not culturally, nor in influence. Texas was part of mexico for a little over 14 years.. that’s it. I don’t see the great amount of historical ‘injustice’ to warrant the outcry 170 years later, especially from those who emigrated here from Mexico to enjoy the fruits of this country.
Gray
Great that some honest guys raise public awareness for the conspirancy to recapture the US south for Mexico. This is much more serious than the war on christmas! We’ve seen lots of Mexican flags on TV in the last weeks, but not a single anti-christmas flag, so obviously the line of attack of those unamerican libruls and their brown hordes has shifted.
But we shouldn’t ignore another obvious treason, too, the Reconfederalisation of the south. We witness it every day in the abundance of CSA flags, stickers and other displays. Hell, some guys even dare to speak admirably of Jeff Davis again!
Beware of the gray hordes!!!
Gray
Darrel, this sounds a lot like ‘Palestine was mostly unpopulated before the jews settled there’ to me. I’d like to see your sources, pls. Besides, what’s the point of your argument? It’s legal to invade a country as long as it is “sparsely populated”? Go tell that to the Saudis.
And “Texas was part of mexico for a little over 14 years”? Wtf? “A revolt against Iturbide in 1823 established the United Mexican States” (wiki), ok. But this has been the result of the independance war of the Mexicans! And before, Mexico had been New Spain, and Texas had been part of that. San Antonio was founded 1718, btw. Oh, and some reasons for the revolt of north americans against Mexico aren’t something to be proud of, too:
“North American settlers in Texas announced they intended to secede from Mexico rather than give up their “right” to slavery, which Mexico had abolished. Other policies that irritated the Texians included the forcible disarmament of Texian settlers, and the expulsion of illegal immigrants from the United States of America.”
They were fighting for the right to slavery and against the expulsion of illegal immigrants! Did you deliberately omit this important info
?
Darrel, you’re either a spindoctor or a fool! Which is it?
Darrell
your’re right about that jerkoff, Palestine was mostly unpopulated before jews settled there.. read Mark Twain to get a clue as to how unpopulated it was under Ottoman rule. I point out Ottoman rule, since to my knowledge there was never in history a state of Palestine.. so like Texas, no one had a clear established claim on it after the dissoluation of the colonial Ottoman empire
I love this – you recognize the legitimacy of ‘New Spain’, terroritories captured and held under murderous oppression by Spain – territories which included Central america and the Phillipines – but you don’t say a word about that as you focus on the the eeevil Texans, not the Spaniards, as the real bad guys for fighting for independence. What a reasonable and fair minded reading of history you have
That Mexico never had strong claim to Texas. That is the point of my argument. Texas was a sparsely populated part of an oppressive colonial empire. Following your whackjob logic, Phillipines should be a part of Mexico too, since it was part of ‘New Spain’ right? And yes, slavery was legal in Texas, but the Mexicans were no angels as you suggest, with lots of blood on their hands butchering their dark skinned indigineous. They may not have had official slavery, but they had lots of unofficial slavery. One only needs to visit Mexico today to see first hand their suppressions of civil rights and concentration of wealth in the hands of few
Darrell
big illegal immigrant protest tomorrow, demanding their ‘derechos’ to skip the line and come here illegally. Why isn’t the INS all over these protests? Let me guess.. because that would be ‘profiling’ for INS to focus their efforts on large concentrations of illegal immigrants.. and every liberal knows that profiling is evil, right? You whackjobs know that you would be the first to scream if the INS took such reasonable actions with these protests
‘Reality based community’ is what you call yourselves?
S.W. Anderson
Vida Loca, I feel I’m sliding or being nudged toward a position I don’t belong in. I haven’t been losing sleep over some perceived likelihood of the Southwest U.S. becoming a de facto province of Mexico. At the same time, I recognize that some Americans see this as a potential threat.
The conflict-of-interest possibility is that U.S. officeholders would pursue policies and make decisions favoring Mexico in an effort to gain or keep political support from Mexican Americans. The result could be some things not in the best interest of the U.S. as a whole.
Let’s say it were to become apparent Mexican state officials had been carrying out a policy of exporting the worst criminals el norte, with the federal government turning a blind eye. Not just letting a few desperadoes flee north to escape arrest, but emptying out whole prisons.
Or, it could be more of an economic conflict. There are several possibilities, I suppose.
If U.S. politicians start making decisions based not on what’s good for the U.S. as a whole, but rather to curry favor or maintain support of Mexican Americans who don’t want some harmful policy of Mexico’s dealt with, there’s the rub.
Again, I’m not predicting such a thing. I mention it only as a possibility and the reason some people are concerned.
For what it’s worth, while I’m concerned about uncontrolled illegal immigration and lack of control of our borders, I welcome an orderly influx of reasonable numbers of immigrants from Mexico and most other countries.
Kimmitt
Enh, kick Texas and Florida out, split Cali into three states. We won’t even have to print new flags.
Gray
“but you don’t say a word about that as you focus on the the eeevil Texans, not the Spaniards”
Bla. Where did I say something about eeevil Texans, Darrell? I very carefully avoided to draw any conclusions. I just pointed out that the mexican parts of New Spain became the United States of Mexico after a war for independance. You tried to tell the story as if the Yankees simply moved into a wasteland. Sorry, not true, there had been cities in that area that were already over one hundred years old. And there had been no vote for the inhabitants to decide which way they wanted to go. Hmm, do you think it would have been legitimate or at least justifiable if the Republic of France would have taken over parts of the US in the 1790s instead of wasting time and Soldiers in Europe?
Now you want to include the atrocities of the Spaniards into the discussion, as if you could hold the people of independent Mexico of 1835/36 responsible for that. Heh, then the US would be responsible for the atrocities of the brits, too, did you think of that? And better don’t talk about the Philipines, I guess you know bloody well yourself that the story of the ‘liberation’ of the Philipines (and Cuba, too, btw) by the US isn’t kosher.
Really, imho Texas did fare better as part of the US, but the story of its ‘liberation’ from Mexico isn’t a great example of democracy nor something to be especially proud of.
Gray
“One only needs to visit Mexico today to see first hand their suppressions of civil rights and concentration of wealth in the hands of few”
Hehehehehe! Why doesn’t Bush say stuff like that? Because he would be laughed out of the WH! Speaking of civil rights and concentratiuon of wealth in the BS° of f***ing A 2006! Huahahaha…
°BS = Bush States
Darrell
Problem is, that is a reasonable, level headed opinion.. even if held by someone who typically leans ‘left’. What you don’t understand is that your side has fully embraced the idea of unregulated immigration… any objection to such immigration must be rooted in racism or oppression they say (read for yourself every lefty website in existence to verify this).
I think there is bipartisan agreement, along w/common sense, that we should have a more balanced immigration, from a variety of countries, not so dominated by Mexico which brings us 55% to 60% of immigrants.. but the whackjobs on the left defend and excuse the extremists who demand our immigration policies should conform to their illegal incursions… something to think about, no? Take a good close look at the left and what they stand for with regards to immigration. Their position is outrageous no matter how you you slice it
Darrell
Only White People are Racist
Travis Marshall, 42, tried in vain to save an elderly driver who had a heart attack at the wheel and careered into a bus.
He was a white man, and that’s what matters to some segments of society
S.W. Anderson
Darrell writes,
Where to begin? Stereotyping, jumping to conclusions, insisting everyone on the left thinks exactly the same things …
I invite you to click the link on my name, Darrell, and visit my lefty blog, Oh!pinion. I don’t expect you’ll agree with everything you find there. I do expect you’ll be surprised to learn much of the right-wing nonsense you’ve bought into is bogus.
There’s one way to find out.
Darrell
From the very first post on your blog:
That tells us everything we need to know about whether you are open minded or fair, does it not? Hey, how about the immigration issue? Can you comment without fear of your lefty masters giving you a whip lashing for straying off the liberal plantation?
Darrell
C’mon lefty whackjobs. Tell us you ‘reasonable’ opinions.. about how fascist right-wingnuts are taking over the US as SW Anderson and his fellow travelers on the left are telling us. They are so smart and informed.. thay can’t be wrong
Kimmitt
You’re lying.
Gray
“Something must be done to rein in President Bush and the rest of the neocon swivel-chair crusaders, before they start World War III.” SW A
“That tells us everything we need to know about whether you are open minded or fair, does it not?”
Dunno if SW A is open minded. But regarding the fact that the Bush administration didn’t deny that there are plans to use nukes against Iran, this seems to be a fair statement.
“What you don’t understand is that your side has fully embraced the idea of unregulated immigration… any objection to such immigration must be rooted in racism or oppression they say (read for yourself every lefty website in existence to verify this).”
I’m on the liberal side and I’m for regulated immigration. And I’m not the only one. In fact, many democrats warn that unregulated immigration puts pressure on the job market for unskilled workers, effectively driving wages down. Ever heard of a Dem who’s FOR low wages? Why do you think 38 dems voted for that immigration bill compromise (that would have passed if repubs wouldn’t block any compromise)?
Your statement is BS, Darrel, and you should have known that. This isn’t KOS here, you’ll make a joke of yourself if you continue to assume that the Ballooners fit into your black and white stereotypes (full disclosure: I’m not a fan of Black & White, I prefer single malts like Lochnagar. Cheers Tim!).
Faux News
Personally I am delighted with the 1836 crowd. Here on the east coast we have to listen to the non stop braying and drivel of the Confederate States, “war of northern aggression” LOSERS since 1865. There are groups who STILL talk about secession from the USA, and of course deny the whole “slavery” thing.
Yes, the South Shall Rise Again! Apparently so will Mexico and the defeated armies of Santa Anna. Should be interesting to see those two groups clash.
:-)
Darrell
and then you read on this very thread:
and this
And there is much more on this site from where that came from. No, the lefties on BJ are as extreme as anything found on DKos..not much honest doubt about that
But having said that, I do partially retract my earlier statement about unrestricted immigration. I believe a majority of leftists, but not all, oppose any measures to control illegal immigration.. Hell, they scream even when it’s suggested that voters produce ID’s in order to vote. They championed the fraud-prone motor voter act. However, I believe most Dems, or a near-majority, are in favor of doing something about illegal immigration
Darrell
Vote Democrat
Mas
Oh yeah
S.W. Anderson
Darrell, if you’re really concerned about voter fraud, I wish you’d volunteer some time and vigilance to the November balloting in Ohio or Florida.
If you do, by all means keep a watchful eye out for crowds of people not properly registered or ID’d trying to vote.
But also watch for large numbers of people, in any of dozens of ways, being discouraged from voting. Watch for funny business about where polls are, when they open and close, people attempting intimidation of those coming to vote, supposedly lost registration lists, tampering with voting machines, and so on. And if you find any of these things going on, raise hell and help put a stop to them.