Message To Republicans

By criticizing the president you’re endangering the country:

[Update – the naughty elves at Times online scrubbed the passage. Find it here]:

If the furor over the port deal should go on, Mr. England said, it would give enemies of the United States aid and comfort: “They want us to become distrustful, they want us to become paranoid and isolationist.”

You either support the president or you hate America and want the terrorists to win. That means you, Michelle Malkin.

One wonders why some liberals might get ‘angry’ after five continuous years of this crap.

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133 replies
  1. 1
    Ancient Purple says:

    Unfortunately, you see that sentiment all the time.

    If you didn’t support Bush’s plan in invading Iraq, you are a traitor.

    If you don’t support anything Rumsfeld says, you are a traitor.

    If you question the President’s policies, you are a traitor.

    They have set up a false dichotomy where anything other than pure allegiance to King George makes you guilty of treason.

    Why don’t we just rename America “Stepfordland” and be done with it?

  2. 2
    ppGaz says:

    Democrats are playing this story in exactly the right way, as a vehicle for exposing the third-rate job we’ve done securing our ports after 911. Which in turn exposes the hypocrisy of this administration wrt to its constant fearmongering and political leveraging of the so-called, but fictional, “war on terror.”

    Someday, blogchildren will ask their blogparents about this time in history. “Why did they have a Defense of Marriage agenda, but no Defense of the Ports agenda, blogdad?”

    And blogdad will answer, “I don’t know, blogson. I just know that I couldn’t bear to vote Republican. I brought shame on our blogfamily.”

  3. 3
    ppGaz says:

    No coffee.

    “I couldn’t bear to vote Democratic.”

    Please revise my previous post.

  4. 4
    Marcus Wellby says:

    I can understand being conservative, I have some conservative views myself. I can understand being Republican. What I just cannot understand is how ANYBODY supports this idiot of a president.

  5. 5
    Leonidas says:

    Uh, it’s true that criticizing this deal could endanger the president. Sorry, but UAE is a strong partner in the war on terror. You can make all the ignorant jokes you want to about them being a bunch of Islamic sheikhs, but they have let us use their bases and that’s been very important in the Iraq war. They’ve also been very aggressive about rooting out Al Qaeda in their own country. Admittedly, they weren’t so good about this before 911, but they are now.

    Putting the kibosh on this deal sends the wrong message to countries like the UAE. And don’t forget, we’ve seen Muslims riot recently over something as innocuous as a cartoon. Don’t think that killing this deal won’t lead to riots in the UAE and elsewhere in the Muslim world, because it certainly could.

    Don’t be so blinded by your hatred of Bush that you can’t admit he’s doing the right thing here.

  6. 6
    fwiffo says:

    “A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt. If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake.”

    The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

  7. 7
    Tim F. says:

    Uh, it’s true that criticizing this deal could endanger the president.

    Either a clever spoofer, or the most unintentionally revealing slip so far this month.

  8. 8
    Pb says:

    Tim F.,

    Did you get the wrong link, or was that passage scrubbed?

    In any case, hilarious.

    They want us to become distrustful, they want us to become paranoid

    In that case, they’re a little late.

    Some ask how urgent this danger is to America and the world. The danger is already significant, and it only grows worse with time. If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today — and we do — does it make any sense for the world to wait to confront him as he grows even stronger and develops even more dangerous weapons?

    Mission accomplished.

    On the bright side:

    Not everyone who acts paranoid or distrustful has schizophrenia. Some people have a paranoid personality disorder, a tendency to be suspicious or distrustful of others, without the other features of schizophrenia.

  9. 9
    Vladi G says:

    Either a clever spoofer, or the most unintentionally revealing slip so far this month.

    No, Tim, that’s one of the lying shitheads from that Scrotom website.

  10. 10
    Don Surber says:

    Excuse me angry liberals, but conservatives have a few bones to pick with you.
    1. The 2000 election. What was with that? Sure, Florida was close but had Gore not sued, the recount would have taken place in a timely manner. BTW, the best the media could do was find 44 net votes for him, 493 shy.
    2. No Child Left Behind. Bush went out of his way to work with Ted Kennedy. he increased federal Ed spending by 50%. This is the thanks he gets?
    3. This administration has gone after the Ken Lays and others who did whatever they wanted in the 1990s. Credit? Hmm?
    4. Duke Cunningham and Jack Abramoff indicted. Probe continues. Without a special prosecutor. Chips are being allowed to fall.
    5. No one in any official capacity has called anyone a traitor. The closest was a whacko congresswoman who read an email from a Marine dissing Murtha. The Republican majority House immediately censured this act and she apologized.
    Libs wasted little time after 9/11 to complain about civil rights. Bill Press declared the First Amendment dead on Oct. 1, 2001.
    Hello?
    Drop the Drama Queen patriotism. Samuel Johnson said it was the final refuge of the scoundrel.
    And quit bleating Wolf! on civil rights already. You might just need conservative support when the next president actually attacks civil rights.
    The ad hominem attacks on Bush BTW only bolster him. You would think after 5 years libs would catch on. But no.
    I have voted for Bush twice. I make no apology. Considering the bizarre behavior of Al Gore since Election Day 2000, his supporters should be glad he was not elected. Gore would have had a breakdown by now.

  11. 11
    Leonidas says:

    I won’t dignify your idiocy with a response, Vladi G.

    If we lose our base in the UAE, it will hurt our ability to conduct military operations in the Middle East. And with Iran on the verge of a nuclear bomb, this really isn’t the time to being screwing that up. Now, if you can come up with some legitimate security concerns, I’m all ears. But if your concern is really thinly veiled xenophobia, then shut up.

  12. 12
    Don Surber says:

    Vladi G: “No, Tim, that’s one of the lying shitheads from that Scrotom website.”

    Please translate into English (shitheads I assume translates into shitheads)

  13. 13
    StupidityRules says:

    Please someone tell me what the current talking point is for when you should and when you shouldn’t appease angry militant islamists.

    Right now it seems to be:
    Cartoons – No
    Port Deal – Yes

  14. 14
    Don Surber says:

    ppGaz:

    Defense Of Marriage Act passed in 1998, breezing through the Senate 89-11 and signed into law by Bill Clinton.

    The day I need any president of the United States to defend my marriage is the day I have no marriage. Praise Kerry, Kennedy and the other 9 senators with testicles/ovaries enough to vote down DOMA

  15. 15
    Pb says:

    I tip my hat to you, Don Surber — I’ve seen some interesting posts on here before, but that’s the most bizarre and nonsensical satire I’ve seen yet. I don’t think it’s quite believable enough, really, some of it is just too out there, or too nonsensical, but the craftsmanship still shines through. Maybe you could work it into some spoken word poetry or something? DougJ, do you have any tips for Don?

  16. 16
    Don Surber says:

    Leonidas:

    Other than the shut up part, I agree with your post.

  17. 17
    Vladi G says:

    Don,

    It goes back a week or two when one of the morons that runs their site lied about stuff that was being said over here, and when called on it, wouldn’t admit to it.

  18. 18
    Pb says:

    Leonidas,

    Now, if you can come up with some legitimate security concerns, I’m all ears.

    Where the hell have you been? Ties to bin Laden? A.Q. Khan? Bueller?

  19. 19
    Faux News says:

    DougJ, do you have any tips for Don?

    Agreed. Clearly it is not yet time for Don Surber to try to snatch the pebble from DougJ’s hand (“time for you to leave”). I do think that DougJ would be a very important mentor to the Don Surber Troll. There is potential here, and we need the master (DougJ) to lend a hand.

  20. 20
    Faux News says:

    It goes back a week or two when one of the morons that runs their site lied about stuff that was being said over here, and when called on it, wouldn’t admit to it.

    Would this be Red State which has YET to have a thread on the destruction of the Shiite shrine in Samarra and the subsequent two days of violence? Plenty of derisive threads about liberals though and the Senate race in CT.

  21. 21
    Lines says:

    Hey Don Surber, I suppose that critisizing the President while he’s using cherry picked intelligence that is single sourced from an exiled “patriot” is also bad? Even though the critisism and concerns that were brought up at that time we correct?

    You farking arshole, go troll somewhere else, you incestuous after-birth.

  22. 22
    Don Surber says:

    Pb

    Again, you cannot handle facts so you try sarcasm. Poorly. Whistle past that graveyard. Hey, Republicans did the same thing back in the day. 40 years shut out of the House of Representatives happens, libs. You are on year 12. Wanna try for 28 more, or are you gonna listen?

  23. 23
    Don Surber says:

    Vladi:

    OK. I see. What is Scrotom ???

  24. 24
    Steve says:

    And don’t forget, we’ve seen Muslims riot recently over something as innocuous as a cartoon. Don’t think that killing this deal won’t lead to riots in the UAE and elsewhere in the Muslim world, because it certainly could.

    This is an odd point to bring up, unless you’re against publishing the cartoons. Is this our new standard for approving business transactions – we won’t take any action that causes Muslims to riot? As we speak, millions of corporations are undoubtedly trying to figure out how they can get Muslims riled up over Sarbanes-Oxley.

    It’s amazing how the same people who shilled for the administration on torture and Abu Ghraib suddenly perceive the overriding importance of winning hearts and minds, because something the president wants to do is now at stake.

  25. 25
    BriVT says:

    Putting the kibosh on this deal sends the wrong message to countries like the UAE. And don’t forget, we’ve seen Muslims riot recently over something as innocuous as a cartoon. Don’t think that killing this deal won’t lead to riots in the UAE and elsewhere in the Muslim world, because it certainly could.

    I just want to get something straight … torturing individual Arabs and putting some (many innocent) in Guantanamo on the excuse that they may be a “security risk” is OK, but inconveniencing a corporation and its Royal Family owners for the same reason with greater cause is not?

    And which do you think has a greater negative effect on the US image among Muslims in the world: the pictures from Abu Ghraib and the stories from innocent people released from Guantanamo or the fact that the Royal Family of Dubai is getting a deal blocked?

    I find this concern for an Arab corporate entity coming from a GOP/pundit establishment that has no concern for actual Muslim human beings a little disconcerting …

  26. 26
    ppGaz says:

    Note to readers: Bill O’Reilly is on another assignment today.

    Filling in for him is Don Surber.

    —–//

    Note to Don: You bash the fucked up president you have, not the fucked up president you wish you had.

  27. 27
    stickler says:

    40 years shut out of the House of Representatives happens, libs. You are on year 12. Wanna try for 28 more, or are you gonna listen?

    Yeah, you’d better listen to a factually-challenged rightwing hack, or by golly there’s NEVER going to be another Democratic majority, ever!!!

    ‘Cause the Defense of Marriage Act is far worse than turning over port operations to a government-owned company from Dubai. Even if that government’s emir likes to go bird-hunting with Osama Bin Forgotten.

  28. 28
    Don Surber says:

    Lines:

    Guess what? I support your right to criticize the prez. OK? You can criticize any politician. But as Jimmy Carter fiunally figured out with this Dubai thing, it helps to once in a while say something nice about the guy you diss all the time.

    Along those lines: Signing McCain-Feingold was a very real attack on the First Amendment, leavened only by the 527s and their ability to walk around the rules. Supremes should have tossed it. Curse you, Sandy baby

    The Medicaid drug benny is baffling, expensive and crap. Bush blew it there, too.

  29. 29
    Steve says:

    Again, you cannot handle facts so you try sarcasm. Poorly. Whistle past that graveyard. Hey, Republicans did the same thing back in the day. 40 years shut out of the House of Representatives happens, libs. You are on year 12. Wanna try for 28 more, or are you gonna listen?

    Why do I find it hard to believe you are offering sincere advice on how to regain power to the people who “cheer for the razing of mosques,” who “smile at the misery of Iraqis,” who “could not care less about the people of Iraq or any other country in the world”?

  30. 30
    Don Surber says:

    ppGaz: “Note to Don: You bash the fucked up president you have, not the fucked up president you wish you had.”

    Point well taken

  31. 31
    Pb says:

    Don Surber,

    you cannot handle facts so you try sarcasm

    Now that’s just an outright lie–I can handle facts. Here, lay one on me. I’m waiting.

    Hey, Republicans did the same thing back in the day. 40 years shut out of the House of Representatives happens, libs. You are on year 12. Wanna try for 28 more, or are you gonna listen?

    Sure, I’ll listen–I always listen. What else do you have in that crystal ball of yours?

  32. 32
    Don Surber says:

    Steve:

    Part of my advice is to stop cheering the razing of mosques, quit smiling at the misery of Iraqis and to begin caring about the people of Iraq and teh rest of the world

    Since I implied that yesterday and saw no reason to repeat it. If that impugns on my sincerity, OKie dokie

  33. 33
    Lines says:

    You think you can make up for your pathetic hack journamalism by tossing out a few worn out and pathetic critisisms of the pres? You think that makes you any less of a pathetic twit, Don?

    Iraq: Screwed the pooch
    Guantanimo: Held hundreds of innocents that were released to their own countries which then apologized for the US and let them go.
    675 American Citizens held after 9/11 with no representation.
    Continual lies about supporting “democracy” but when Hamas is democratically elected, they throw them under the bus. Same thing with Taiwan.

    You are supporting liars, thieves and crooks, Don Surber. When will you wake up and stop being a shill? Or is the money too good?

  34. 34
    Lines says:

    Oh, and Don, quit projecting your fucked up beliefs on liberals. Its going to get you hurt if you keep it up. No one is cheering the shit you claim, so knock it off you uncouth redneck production.

  35. 35
    Don Surber says:

    Pb: “Now that’s just an outright lie—I can handle facts. Here, lay one on me. I’m waiting.”

    Okie dokie:

    1. The 2000 election. What was with that? Sure, Florida was close but had Gore not sued, the recount would have taken place in a timely manner. BTW, the best the media could do was find 44 net votes for him, 493 shy.
    2. No Child Left Behind. Bush went out of his way to work with Ted Kennedy. he increased federal Ed spending by 50%. This is the thanks he gets?
    3. This administration has gone after the Ken Lays and others who did whatever they wanted in the 1990s. Credit? Hmm?
    4. Duke Cunningham and Jack Abramoff indicted. Probe continues. Without a special prosecutor. Chips are being allowed to fall.
    5. No one in any official capacity has called anyone a traitor. The closest was a whacko congresswoman who read an email from a Marine dissing Murtha. The Republican majority House immediately censured this act and she apologized.
    Libs wasted little time after 9/11 to complain about civil rights. Bill Press declared the First Amendment dead on Oct. 1, 2001.
    Hello?
    Drop the Drama Queen patriotism. Samuel Johnson said it was the final refuge of the scoundrel.
    And quit bleating Wolf! on civil rights already. You might just need conservative support when the next president actually attacks civil rights.
    The ad hominem attacks on Bush BTW only bolster him. You would think after 5 years libs would catch on. But no.
    I have voted for Bush twice. I make no apology. Considering the bizarre behavior of Al Gore since Election Day 2000, his supporters should be glad he was not elected. Gore would have had a breakdown by now.

  36. 36
    Jack Roy says:

    This Surber guy is rather amusing.

    The 2000 election. What was with that? Sure, Florida was close but had Gore not sued, the recount would have taken place in a timely manner.

    Ah, the Bobby Knight philosophy of election monitoring: If you’re going to be denied a fair recount by the other side’s lawyers, why not just lie back and enjoy it?

    BTW, the best the media could do was find 44 net votes for him, 493 shy.

    Demonstrably not true, but an admirable commitment to what your ideology must imagine to be true. Recounting under the standard ordered by the Florida court would have resulted in a Bush victory, but applying the Palm Beach standard would have resulted in a Gore win by 42 votes. Counting overvotes (e.g., voting for “Bush (R)” and also writing in “I want Bush”) in addition to undervotes (e.g., hanging chads) would have resulted in a 200 vote Gore victory. Including additional overvotes for one of the two major candidates and additionally one of the minor candidates (commonly thought to result from a mistaken belief that the third party candidates were running for a different office) would have netted Gore a couple more thousand.

    Furthermore, the Gore counties had far higher rates of ballots that were not counted than the Bush counties (simply as a result of Republican precincts usually having nicer voting machines). If one corrects for the statistical disparity and assumes that the uncounted votes would have broken in roughly the same proportion as the counted votes, Gore would have won Florida by about 30,000 votes.
    Mr. Surber, none of this is news. This has all been widely reported. What astonishes me is that you’re so capable of clinging to the belief that even the media, supposedly biased against your candidate, could do no better than to come up with 44 net Gore votes, even five years after the event and all the available studies of it. I’m not Catholic, but an old Irish friend of mine gave me a Jesuit term that’s useful when describing folks like you: Invincibly ignorant.

    Drop the Drama Queen patriotism. Samuel Johnson said it was the final refuge of the scoundrel.

    Well, we agree on that. That’s, in fact, what liberals have been saying for a couple of years now.

    The ad hominem attacks on Bush BTW only bolster him.

    Yeah… which is why his approval rating is in the low forties right now? Why won’t we liberals learn? Criticizing the president’s performance on the economy, Iraq, Katrina, port security, the deficit, the budget, the trade gap, entitlement spending, etc., only makes him more powerful!
    Oy.

  37. 37
    Steve says:

    Part of my advice is to stop cheering the razing of mosques, quit smiling at the misery of Iraqis and to begin caring about the people of Iraq and teh rest of the world

    Yes, and how about a lecture on how we need to be civil to win elections, kind of like you are being with these absurd and offensive accusations.

    The hateful things you and the other Limbaugh disciples say about liberals remind me of things Henry Ford used to say about the Jews.

  38. 38
    Krista says:

    Oh, and Don, “Scrotom” is a new nickname for scrutator.net. For the most part, they’re crazier than ten barrels of owlshit. You might see GOP4Me on here sometimes. He’s from that site, and he’s like an eloquent Darrell on meth.

    Or something like that.

  39. 39
    Bruce Moomaw says:

    Getting back on the subject, children:

    We are hearing from a very large number of people — on the left as well as the Right — that it’s absurd to criticize this deal because port security in any case will be entirely in the hands of the US government. However, Clark Kent Ervin — Bush’s Inspector General of the DHS in 2003-04 (and, yes, his parents did name him after Superman) — strongly disagrees in a Feb. 23 NY Times op-ed:

    “While the United Arab Emirates is deemed by the Bush administration to be an ally in the war on terrorism, we should all have deep concerns about its links to terrorists. Two of the 9/11 hijackers were citizens of the
    emirates, and some of the money for the attacks came from there. It was one of only three countries in the world that recognized the Taliban regime. And Dubai was an important transshipment point for the smuggling network of
    Abdul Qadeer Khan, the Pakistani scientist who supplied Libya, Iran and North Korea with equipment for making nuclear weapons.

    “Most terrorism experts agree that the likeliest way for a weapon of mass destruction to be smuggled into our country would be through a port. After all, some 95 percent of all goods from abroad arrive in the United States by sea, and yet only about 6 percent of incoming cargo containers are inspected for security threats.

    “It is true that at the ports run by the Dubai company, Customs officers would continue to do any inspection of cargo containers and the Coast Guard would remain ‘in charge’ of port security. But, again, very few cargo inspections are conducted. And the Coast Guard merely sets standards that ports are to follow and reviews their security plans. Meeting those standards each day is the job of the port operators: they are responsible for hiring security officers, guarding the cargo and overseeing its
    unloading.”

    In short, according to the former Inspector General of the DHS, this issue is NOT separate from our trifling spending on government security for ports. Since we’re committing the latter mistake too, the fact that we’ve handed this deal over to the UAE is a serious additional blunder.

  40. 40
    Ancient Purple says:

    Part of my advice is to stop cheering the razing of mosques, quit smiling at the misery of Iraqis and to begin caring about the people of Iraq and teh rest of the world

    And yet you haven’t been able to cite the hordes of “liberals” standing on Main Street USA cheering the destruction of sacred sites in Iraq and twirling their fiendish moustaches while basking in the misery of the Iraqis.

    My advice to you is to stop the absure hyperbole.

  41. 41
    Ancient Purple says:

    absure = absurd

  42. 42
    Pb says:

    Don,

    Hmm, that looks surprisingly familiar. Ok, I’ll look for something fact-ish in that.

    No Child Left Behind. Bush went out of his way to work with Ted Kennedy. he increased federal Ed spending by 50%. This is the thanks he gets?

    Ok, I remember when Bush came into office, and he was talking about bipartisan cooperation, and being “a uniter, not a divider”. So let’s see how this played out. Let’s see who’s trying to unite, and who’s doing the dividing.

    Saying GOP broke word, Kennedy vows new tactics
    By Susan Milligan, Globe Staff, 11/27/2003

    WASHINGTON — When the Senate voted last summer to provide Medicare patients with prescription drug coverage, a fiery Senator Edward M. Kennedy hailed the bill as “the greatest action in a generation to mend the broken promise of Medicare.”

    Ok, so Ted Kennedy was grateful to the Bush administration even after NCLB for enacting something that sounded good at the time, that’s all nice and bipartisan of him…

    Now, it is Kennedy complaining about broken promises, after Republican leaders took the bill Kennedy painstakingly negotiated and morphed it into an industry-friendly “Medicare reform” package that opens the 38-year-old entitlement program to competition with private insurers. The senator, who had spent months cajoling Democrats to back his version of the legislation, was back on the floor this week with equal passion, pleading with his colleagues to stop the measure he charged had been “hijacked” by Republicans.

    Whoops. And we all know how that turned out…

    It was the second time Kennedy had seen legacy-building legislation he had crafted become a source of disappointment and division within his own party. No Child Left Behind, Kennedy’s signature education reform bill, was underfunded by the Bush administration and is being attacked by teachers for undermining local control of schools.

    Twice bitten…

    “When the president of the United States looks you in the eye and says the resources will be there, I believe it,” Kennedy said, referring to the funding for the education bill. But “the resources haven’t been there.”

    To quote Tim F.: One wonders why some liberals might get ‘angry’ after five continuous years of this crap.

    Sorry, Don–no fact there. You reap what you sow.

  43. 43
    Leonidas says:

    Other than the shut up part, I agree with your post.

    Don, thanks, you’re a bit better at being tactful than me. I didn’t mean the “shut up” to sound as hostile as it did.

  44. 44
    ppGaz says:

    begin caring about the people of Iraq and teh rest of the world

    Christ, Don, give it up, man. What next, a paean to baseball and apple pie?

    The president who says “Bring it on” cares about the people of Iraq? Fuck him, and you, if you think that.

    This isn’t about caring about the people of Iraq. The war was not about the people of Iraq. If you want to find an example of a an American president caring about the people of Iraq, try Bush the Elder. He had the good sense to stop the Gulf War before he plunged the people of Iraq into years of turmoil and nation-building and civil strife. And don’t try to scam us with “world better of without Saddam” bullshit. American foreign policy is built on a foundation of keeping despots in place just so that stability is maintained and chaos, war and turmoil are avoided. A common sense practice that this bunch of shitheads decided to not only ignore here, but decided to try to pretend was not the reality of the last 75 years of policy.

    Cut the crap, man. It ain’t feedin the bulldog here.

    Unless you actually believe it, of course. In which case, by all means, keep it coming.

  45. 45
    Davebo says:

    The 2000 election. What was with that? Sure, Florida was close but had Gore not sued, the recount would have taken place in a timely manner. BTW

    Problem with this “fact” is that it was Bush that sued.

    Just sayin..

  46. 46
    Pb says:

    ppGaz,

    He’s bombing them there so he doesn’t have to bomb them here. Or something. Tough love.

  47. 47

    Memo 2 Newspapers: You can’t delete history

    I can tell this couold be my new cause, newspaper and other media WEb sites which, as mentioned at Balloon-Juice (ew) the New York Times did with Deputy Defense Sec. England’s comments, seemingly beause, well, what is the !@#$% because…

  48. 48
    Steve says:

    I just want to repeat Don Surber’s own words so everyone can see what a hateful, hateful man he is.

    Lefties are rooting for a civil war

    The left could not care less about the people of Iraq or any other country in the world. Their misery brings smiles to lefty faces this morning

    So cheer for the razing of mosques.

    Maybe the result will be the lefty wet dream: Another Uncle Joe or Uncle Saddam who brings peace by killing at will and on whim to keep everyone on their toes.

    My only question is: We have a number of conservative commenters here. Will ANY of them stand up and say Don Surber’s comments were hateful and inaccurate?

  49. 49

    That’s interesting that the NYTimes deleted that quote. Did they find that it wasn’t accurate, or did they get a phone call from the WH saying it wasn’t their official position?

  50. 50
    Lee says:

    Are they listening to themselves?

    Do they have ANY idea what they are saying?

    Are they not conerned on how close to real facism they are coming?

    It makes me more sad than anything to hear Americans making claims like this.

  51. 51
    Otto Man says:

    1. The 2000 election. What was with that? Sure, Florida was close but had Gore not sued, the recount would have taken place in a timely manner. BTW, the best the media could do was find 44 net votes for him, 493 shy.

    Wrong. First, as noted above, Bush was the first to sue. (Here’s a hint — the plaintiff in the Supreme Court case is “Bush.” Hence the styling “Bush v. Gore.”)

    Second, there were a number of number of recount approaches that gave Gore the win, including using all the county’s own standards and going for a full statewide recount.

    Plus, the Miami Herald said that if overvotes were counted, Gore would’ve won by 23000 votes. And that’s not counting all the black voters that Katherine Harris had illegally scrubbed from the rolls. You really think Bush would’ve kept that 537 vote margin if 10,000 more African Americans had voted?

    2. No Child Left Behind. Bush went out of his way to work with Ted Kennedy. he increased federal Ed spending by 50%. This is the thanks he gets?

    And then completely botched the funding mechanisms. Tell me what, Don. Go to any public school and find me a teacher, an administrator, or a parent who likes NCLB as instituted. Everyone I’ve ever talked to hates it with a passion. I know three lifetime Republicans who voted for Kerry in the last election solely because of this clusterfuck.

    3. This administration has gone after the Ken Lays and others who did whatever they wanted in the 1990s. Credit? Hmm?

    Thank God Ken Lay has been behind bars all these years. Oh, right. Seriously, you think they deserve thunderous applause for prosecuting what is clearly the worst business scandal since Boesky? Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations.

    4. Duke Cunningham and Jack Abramoff indicted. Probe continues. Without a special prosecutor. Chips are being allowed to fall.

    Oh, they’re allowing investigations to proceed? Goody! How could they not investigate? Cunningham is a congressman who was so brazen about his wartime bribe-taking that he drew up a “bribe menu” on his official congressional stationary! And Abramoff’s emails on the “high five” scams show a similar brazenness and bald-faced criminality. Barney Fucking Fife would have been able to follow the bread crumbs.

    5. No one in any official capacity has called anyone a traitor.

    No, just a lot of phrases that fit the definition of treason — aiding the enemy, giving them comfort, etc. Treason is punishable by death, so they’re careful with the exact term. But the enabling clauses are all there.

    The ad hominem attacks on Bush BTW only bolster him.

    Yeah. Those poll numbers are soaring right now. Check out Survey USA’s state-by-state breakdown of his approval ratings. Right now, there are only six states where the president’s approval rating is above 50%. (And it’ll come as no surprise to hear that these six states are the awesome, incredibly progressive states of Utah, Idaho, Alabama, Wyoming, Nebraska and Oklahoma.)

    What’s really stunning is how low Bush’s popularity has sunk in some of the states he won in the last election. He’s already below the 40% approval mark in Colorado, Missouri, and Iowa. In the über-battleground state of Ohio, where the national GOP’s problems are being reinforced by a state-level meltdown, he’s down to a pathetic 37%.

    I have voted for Bush twice. I make no apology.

    Yeah, to make an apology, you’d first have to realize how stupid you’ve been. That’s clearly not going to happen.

    Considering the bizarre behavior of Al Gore since Election Day 2000, his supporters should be glad he was not elected. Gore would have had a breakdown by now.

    Yeah, Gore would’ve been an absolute disaster. I bet he never would’ve caught Osama Bin Laden, and I bet he never would’ve caught the guys who sent anthrax to Senate leaders right after 9/11 either. Gore probably would’ve alienated our allies, ruined our intelligence services, put our port security in the hands of the UAE, etc. He sure wouldn’t have had the guts to get us involved in a three-year quagmire occupation with no end in sight and a civil war on the horizon.

    Thank God we’re in such sure and stable hands now.

  52. 52
    GOP4Me says:

    My only question is: We have a number of conservative commenters here. Will ANY of them stand up and say Don Surber’s comments were hateful and inaccurate?

    What for? Is he incorrect? Even if he is exaggerating, what good would it do for someone else to apologize for him? Will YOU apologize for this threat from Lines?

    Oh, and Don, quit projecting your fucked up beliefs on liberals. Its going to get you hurt if you keep it up. No one is cheering the shit you claim, so knock it off you uncouth redneck production.

    What about this other gem from Lines?

    You farking arshole, go troll somewhere else, you incestuous after-birth.

    What about this spiteful nonsense from Vladi G?

    It goes back a week or two when one of the morons that runs their site lied about stuff that was being said over here, and when called on it, wouldn’t admit to it.

    When do we get OUR apologies for these hateful, hateful men on YOUR side of the fence, Steve?

  53. 53
    Pb says:

    Steve,

    Yep, that still doesn’t make any sense to me. Does Don Surber have a grudge against left-handed people, perhaps? Does anyone know what that crazy old man is talking about?

  54. 54
    Otto Man says:

    By the way, John Avarosis has an amazing smackdown of England over at his place.

  55. 55
    Pb says:

    GOP4Me,

    Yeah, you’re the one to be talking about apologies–after the crap you spewed, and then lied about. Please.

  56. 56
    Lee says:

    Holy *#&#*(#&

    I did not realize that Bush had fallen below 50% in Texas.

    I guess there is some hope for my fellow Texans after all.

  57. 57
    Otto Man says:

    I should add that those state-by-state numbers all came before Cheney shot an old man in the face and Bush announced he was giving control of our ports to the UAE. We could see all 50 states under 50% soon.

  58. 58
    Steve says:

    GOP4Me Says:

    What for?

    Let’s just stipulate that, when I asked if any conservatives would repudiate Don Surber’s hate speech, the question was purely rhetorical as it pertained to you.

    GOP4Me demonstrates the modus operandi of the modern conservative movement, though: Question the patriotism and the very humanity of liberals, and then when they call you a name over it, act shocked that they could be so goshdarned uncivil.

  59. 59
    Pb says:

    Otto Man,

    Ouch, that’s gotta hurt!

    Here’s a similar reaction (but with more pictures, less words) to the nonsensical parrotings of another Bush administration hack.

  60. 60
    Davebo says:

    Where did Don go?

    Fact fishing?

    Hope he has a salt water tag….

  61. 61
    GOP4Me says:

    Yeah, you’re the one to be talking about apologies—after the crap you spewed, and then lied about. Please.

    Any insult from you is a compliment, Peanut Butter.

  62. 62
    LITBMueller says:

    Hey, just wanted to take a time out from my house party where me and my liberal friends are having a raging kegger, cheering the destruction of mosques, rooting for a civil war, and plotting to bring down the United States, in order to point out something really funny in the article Tim F.:

    But Kimmitt said the position of the White House under two administrations since 1992 has been that the 45-day review is begun only if an agency raises national security objections during the committee’s deliberations.

    To back up his assertion, he said that in the final five years of President Bill Clinton’s administration, the inter-agency panel considered 21 cases involving foreign government-owned companies buying U.S. firms. None went to the added 45-day review.

    Short version: “You see, it is REALLY REALLY BAD to have a pre-9/11 mindset…except when you want to apologize for the Administration….again.”

    Hahahahaha! :)

    Oh, and:

    3. This administration has gone after the Ken Lays and others who did whatever they wanted in the 1990s. Credit? Hmm?

    That would kinda be like giving Bush credit for remembering to put his underwear on each morning…

    Happy Friday! :)

  63. 63
    GOP4Me says:

    Let’s just stipulate that, when I asked if any conservatives would repudiate Don Surber’s hate speech, the question was purely rhetorical as it pertained to you.

    Thank you. I guess.

    GOP4Me demonstrates the modus operandi of the modern conservative movement, though: Question the patriotism and the very humanity of liberals, and then when they call you a name over it, act shocked that they could be so goshdarned uncivil.

    Well, I don’t like it when the Taliban calls me names either. Or the French. You’re in good company, Steve.

  64. 64
    GOP4Me says:

    Hey, just wanted to take a time out from my house party where me and my liberal friends are having a raging kegger, cheering the destruction of mosques, rooting for a civil war, and plotting to bring down the United States,

    I knew it!

  65. 65
    ppGaz says:

    I would say that Don is writing GOP4 as a comic foil, but I’ve come to the conclusion that GOP4 is just as crazy as he seems. Crazy with a sense of humor, maybe, but still crazy.

    It’s Darrell on laughing gas.

  66. 66
    Jorge says:

    Um, how does “We’re fighting the terrorists in Iraq so we won’t have to fight them over here” show concern for the people of Iraq?

    This is one of the many logical fallacies that I’ve never had explained to me about our “deep concern” for the welfare of the people of Iraq. Our POTUS decided to turn Iraq into a war zone with folks that aren’t Iraqi in order to avoid having the war come over here to the US. So, how is that of benefit to the welfare of the Iraqi people?

  67. 67

    The UAE is a strong partner in the War On Terror.

    They supply the terrorists.

  68. 68
    Steve says:

    Looks like it’s time to recap GOP4Me’s greatest hits one more time since he seems to have relapsed into thinking that he belongs in the discussion.

    I doubt Jesus goes down to Hell to discuss physics with people who are there for eternally rejecting His name. It’s not outside the realm of possibility, but since only those who accept Christ can be in Heaven, I think we can at least safely conclude Einstein’s current locaton.

    These are the people who attack Bush because of the budget deficit (as if we didn’t have one under Clinton) and question the numbers behind Social Security privatization. The people who think that their number-crunching ability gives them greater wisdom than the guidance the president gets from a Higher Power.

    We’ve all been divided into repentant sinners and the unrepentant, and in the fullness of time it will be revealed that those who lied to children about how we were once monkeys will fall firmly into the latter camp.

    And don’t diss Ann Coulter, Pooh. She’s hot.

    Dude, had you simply confessed to being a spoof, everyone would have clapped their hands and congratulated you on being an uncommonly good one. Having failed to take that easiest of outs, you can’t hold me responsible if everyone concludes you are a raving lunatic.

  69. 69

    Of course Don Surber is cranky, he practices abstinence. Or at least he preaches it.

  70. 70

    I’m afraid, now that Cindy Sheehan has applied for her longshoreman’s card, that the Demos have once again overplayed their hand.

    Is it true that Ward Churchill has been name Port Commissioner for San Francisco?

  71. 71
    Krista says:

    Of course Don Surber is cranky, he practices abstinence

    Or has abstinence foisted upon him, and figures that if a stud muffin like him isn’t getting any, nobody should be getting any.

  72. 72

    Yeah, Don Surber, the liberals are always hoping for bad things to happen to Muslims, as opposed to death-threat spittin’, “poke Saladin” Annie Coulter, whose concern towards “ragheads” has warmed the cockles of hearts all across Islam.

  73. 73
    Otto Man says:

    Or has abstinence foisted upon him

    Homer: Which one’s Selma, again?
    Marge: She’s the one who likes Police Academy movies and Hummel figurines, and walking through the park on clear autumn days.
    Homer: Oh, yeah yeah yeah. But I thought she was the one that didn’t like to be … you know … touched.
    Marge: It’s Patty who chose a life of celibacy. Selma simply had celibacy thrust upon her.

  74. 74
    Pooh says:

    Steve said

    We have a number of conservative commenters here.

    Really?

    And dude, don’t drag me back into this tet-a-tet with GOP…especially by linking me with AC. I have to take a shower now.

  75. 75
    GOP4Me says:

    would say that Don is writing GOP4 as a comic foil, but I’ve come to the conclusion that GOP4 is just as crazy as he seems. Crazy with a sense of humor, maybe, but still crazy.

    There’s nothing crazy about patriotism, moonbat. Meanwhile, when it comes to confronting your arguments, what can I do but laugh?

    It’s Darrell on laughing gas.

    It sounds like I have a strange relationship to Darrell. I’m him, on laughing gas, on crack cocaine, and he’s my father while Stormy70 is my mother and scs is my younger sister. I’m beginning to learn a lot about my genealogy and ancestry when I come to this site. I’ll keep coming back for more, you know. I’ve yet to establish my precise relationship with Don. Is he my uncle? What about Leonidas? Brian? Mac Buckets? Are all conservatives related by blood in moonbat theology? Is that how it goes?

  76. 76
    GOP4Me says:

    Looks like it’s time to recap GOP4Me’s greatest hits one more time since he seems to have relapsed into thinking that he belongs in the discussion.

    I stand by all of those statements, including the one you didn’t quote where I accused you of having a three-foot spike up your butt.

    Dude, had you simply confessed to being a spoof, everyone would have clapped their hands and congratulated you on being an uncommonly good one. Having failed to take that easiest of outs, you can’t hold me responsible if everyone concludes you are a raving lunatic.

    I’m sorry, you forgot to block quote this one. I don’t remember if I wrote it or not, but I certainly think it whenever I read you.

  77. 77
    Lee says:

    There’s nothing crazy about patriotism, moonbat.

    True, only BLIND patriotism is crazy and a bit dangerous.

    Be a patriot to your country not a person.

  78. 78
    GOP4Me says:

    I’m afraid, now that Cindy Sheehan has applied for her longshoreman’s card, that the Demos have once again overplayed their hand.

    I didn’t hear about that one. Wouldn’t surprise me, though.

    Is it true that Ward Churchill has been name Port Commissioner for San Francisco?

    Didn’t hear about that one either, but it wouldn’t surprise me either.

    And dude, don’t drag me back into this tet-a-tet with GOP…especially by linking me with AC. I have to take a shower now.

    Your loss, pal.

    Also, BTW, Jessica Simpson is a conservative Republican. So is Britney Spears. Choke on that, moonbats!

  79. 79
    GOP4Me says:

    True, only BLIND patriotism is crazy and a bit dangerous.

    Be a patriot to your country not a person.

    I love America. George Bush loves America. We share an affinity. It’s not a cult of personality, it’s just two fellows sharing a passion with 51% of their fellow Americans.

    It’s a 51% thing. You 49% wouldn’t understand.

  80. 80
    Jack Roy says:

    I’ve yet to establish my precise relationship with Don. Is he my uncle? What about Leonidas? Brian? Mac Buckets? Are all conservatives related by blood in moonbat theology? Is that how it goes?

    Well, John Cole’s clearly of a higher species than the rest of you, so, obviously, no, not all conservatives are related. And no one’s ever questioned William F. Buckley’s ability to tie his own shoes, so he’s out, too.

    As for those you mentioned, I wouldn’t think you’re all in the same family, phylum, or order, so much as all in one kingdom. The Sofa Kingdom.

  81. 81
    Steve says:

    GOP4Me Says:

    I stand by all of those statements, including the one you didn’t quote where I accused you of having a three-foot spike up your butt.

    You stand by the statement that all Jews are going to Hell? I thought you repudiated that one in a desperate attempt to appear rational. God hates flip-floppers, you know.

  82. 82
    Fruitbat says:

    It’s certainly saying something, but this quote more than any has convinced me that GOP4Me is a hopeless case:

    I’m sorry, you forgot to block quote this one. I don’t remember if I wrote it or not, but I certainly think it whenever I read you.

    No matter what a person thinks about others’ insults or argumentation style, when you’re reduced to a sloppily-worded “I’m rubber, you’re glue” rebuttal, you’ve officially lost any hope of being taken seriously.

  83. 83
    Davebo says:

    Also, BTW, Jessica Simpson is a conservative Republican.

    Duh!

    Everyone knows that Chicken of the Sea is tuna, but what you might not know is that tuna is fish, not chicken.”

    Yep, she sure is.

  84. 84
    GOP4Me says:

    Well, John Cole’s clearly of a higher species than the rest of you, so, obviously, no, not all conservatives are related. And no one’s ever questioned William F. Buckley’s ability to tie his own shoes, so he’s out, too.

    John Cole is a RINO most of the time. I realize it’s bad form to speak ill of him while he’s as sick as he is, and I apologize for doing so, but you forced me to make the distinction so there it is.

    William F. Buckley is a spiritual mentor. I don’t feel any close kinship of any sort with him. Matter of fact, though, I don’t feel any with anyone else on this website that I’ve been linked with genealogically, so I’m beginning to question your moonbat powers to make such diagnoses based on a few strips of text that flash in front of your eyes.

    As for those you mentioned, I wouldn’t think you’re all in the same family, phylum, or order, so much as all in one kingdom. The Sofa Kingdom.

    I bow to no king.

    You stand by the statement that all Jews are going to Hell? I thought you repudiated that one in a desperate attempt to appear rational. God hates flip-floppers, you know.

    My remarks were taken out of context.

    Obviously, it’s up to God, but according to Scripture, yes, all Jews are going to Hell. There’s no flip-flop, only clarification. But why do I bother trying to explain things to you anyway? You clearly want to smear me with your Qerry-brush, so any attempt to get through to you is wasted. It’s sad, really.

  85. 85
    GOP4Me says:

    No matter what a person thinks about others’ insults or argumentation style, when you’re reduced to a sloppily-worded “I’m rubber, you’re glue” rebuttal, you’ve officially lost any hope of being taken seriously.

    Point taken, fruitbat. I’ll be less lazy in future retorts.

    Good luck echolocating small insects and rotten seed-bearing vegetation this evening.

  86. 86
    GOP4Me says:

    I bow to no king

    Well, no earthly king, anyway. I bow to the King of Heaven. (Am I allowed to clarify that statement, Steve, or is it too much like your erstwhile Presidential candidate for your feeble mind to grasp that a conservative could make such a distinction and yet not be a flip-flopper at the same time?)

  87. 87
    Zerthimon says:

    I found this telling

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11540632/

    A senior Dubai Ports executive, Edward Bilkey, said the company will otherwise move forward with its $6.8 billion purchase of London-based Peninsular & Oriental Steam Navigation Co., which operates in 18 countries. Although Dubai Ports agreed to temporarily segregate the company’s U.S. operations, Bilkey expressed bewilderment over the security concerns expressed in Congress.

    “The reaction in the United States has occurred in no other country in the world,” Bilkey said.

    The Dubai deal doesn’t just affect America, but many other countries ports. Yet only America is making a fuss. How do you think that makes America look in the eyes of the Middle East, or for that matter the rest of the world?

  88. 88
    Zerthimon says:

    Oops, the last part in the quote…

    The Dubai deal doesn’t just affect America, but many other countries ports. Yet only America is making a fuss. How do you think that makes America look in the eyes of the Middle East, or for that matter the rest of the world?.

    …Is my statement. I didn’t catch that in the preview.

  89. 89
    Ancient Purple says:

    Also, BTW, Jessica Simpson is a conservative Republican. So is Britney Spears.

    And Spears showed her true conservative Republican morals and convictions by getting married and then getting divorced a couple of days later.

    Touching.

  90. 90
    Steve says:

    William F. Buckley is a spiritual mentor.

    Since I’m going to Hell anyway, I guess there are worse sins I could commit than plucking the low-hanging fruit.

    The central question that emerges… is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not prevail numerically? The sobering answer is Yes – the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race. It is not easy, and it is unpleasant, to adduce statistics evidencing the cultural superiority of White over Negro: but it is a fact that obtrudes, one that cannot be hidden by ever-so-busy egalitarians and anthropologists.

    Ladies and gentlemen, GOP4Me’s spiritual mentor. Count me as one of the 49% who doesn’t understand.

  91. 91
    Davebo says:

    How do you think that makes America look in the eyes of the Middle East

    It’s a little late to start worrying about how America looks in the eyes of the middle east wouldn’t you say?

  92. 92
    Larry says:

    that they could be so goshdarned uncivil

    It is impolite and offensive to offend the person(s) fucking you by saying, “Stop fucking me.”

    The proper way is to politely ask, “Pardon me. Might I inquire as to the approximate time it will be convenient for you to remove your appendage from my fundament?”

  93. 93
    Ancient Purple says:

    Obviously, it’s up to God, but according to Scripture, yes, all Jews are going to Hell.

    Really? Are you fluent in Koine Greek and Aramaic and read the original texts in cultural context? Or did your Bible College Pastor just tell you to read the KJV of the Bible and all would be revealed to you?

  94. 94
    ppGaz says:

    echolocating

    No actual Republican would use a word like that, except maybe Buckley. And you are no Buckley.

    —//

    Actual Republican and echolocation:

    Q: What is echolocation?

    A: I don’t know, but I am absolutely opposed to sex education in public schools.

  95. 95
    GOP4Me says:

    And Spears showed her true conservative Republican morals and convictions by getting married and then getting divorced a couple of days later.

    Touching.

    Only one man born without sin, and they nailed Him to a tree.

    Ladies and gentlemen, GOP4Me’s spiritual mentor. Count me as one of the 49% who doesn’t understand.

    Yeah, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt was best buddies with Joseph Stalin. Nobody’s perfect, and I don’t agree with Buckley on everything. Matter of fact, Buckley doesn’t agree with Buckley on everything. (I KNOW what you’re going to say next, Steve. Flip-flop flip-flop, flip-flop, so utterly predictable is your moonbat space-mind. Of course, the difference between Buckley and I’s mind-changing and Qerry lying campaign-based flip-floppings is that WE weren’t running for POTUS in time of war. See if your mind can wrap itself around that distinction without exploding, then get back to me.)

  96. 96
    over it says:

    How do you think that makes America look in the eyes of the Middle East, or for that matter the rest of the world?

    Oh, NOW you care how we look to the rest of the world?

    When decisions are made that LESSEN global security (cough..Iraq..cough), it does not matter what the world thinks of America or her choices. When a decision is made to INCREASE our security (not letting a state run country control OUR ports), THEN it matters what other nations think of us? Gimme a break.

    I really, really do not understand the mindset.

    Sheesh.

  97. 97
    Steve says:

    It’s a little late to start worrying about how America looks in the eyes of the middle east wouldn’t you say?

    You might recall that just a few days back the right-wing agenda was all about republishing those Danish cartoons to show those barbaric Muslims that we care more about free speech than their silly feelings. If publishing the cartoons leads them to riot more, too bad! We need to send the message that we won’t let those savages push us around.

    This week, we must do everything in our power to avoid offending our Muslim friends. If the law requires a governmental review to ensure our national security isn’t jeopardized, well then, we’ll just have to ignore the law, because our Muslim friends would be offended if we followed the law.

    At least Michelle Malkin is consistent. She likes pissing off the Muslims no matter what day of the week it is.

  98. 98
    ppGaz says:

    Steve, excellent post, and excellent point.

  99. 99
    Davebo says:

    Yeah, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt was best buddies with Joseph Stalin

    Start ignorance of history there dude.

  100. 100
    GOP4Me says:

    Really? Are you fluent in Koine Greek and Aramaic and read the original texts in cultural context? Or did your Bible College Pastor just tell you to read the KJV of the Bible and all would be revealed to you?

    I studied some Ancient Greek in college a while back, but I’m a bit rusty. We did the Gospel of John in one of my classes, which was koine. As I recall, it was a lot easier to translate than Plato or Sophocles, as the word order actually approximated that of modern English. But Greek is hard. Latin reads like baby-speak after Greek. No definite articles… such a sweet change from concealing the noun in the article… I love Plato’s ideas, but f-ck him as a writer, he almost flunked me out of college single-handed.

    You’ve got me on the Aramaic, though, life is too short and unlike you folks who have trust fund money paying your bills while you lurk around here all day, I have to work to eat.

  101. 101
    Zerthimon says:

    Oh, NOW you care how we look to the rest of the world?

    When decisions are made that LESSEN global security (cough..Iraq..cough), it does not matter what the world thinks of America or her choices. When a decision is made to INCREASE our security (not letting a state run country control OUR ports), THEN it matters what other nations think of us? Gimme a break.

    I really, really do not understand the mindset.

    Sheesh.

    Hey smart guy, I’m opposed to the war, for precisely the same reason.

    I didn’t realize that being concerned about how the debate of this deal might be further harming our reputation in the Middle East automatically makes one a warmongering neoconservative.

  102. 102
    Steve says:

    Flip-flop flip-flop, flip-flop, so utterly predictable is your moonbat space-mind. Of course, the difference between Buckley and I’s mind-changing and Qerry lying campaign-based flip-floppings is that WE weren’t running for POTUS in time of war. See if your mind can wrap itself around that distinction without exploding, then get back to me.

    Remember, friends, we must be CIVIL if we want to win elections. No one who spewed hateful rhetoric ever got any political power in this country. We must engage in rational dialogue, like explaining patiently that all the Jews are going to hell, or that 49% of America hates America.

    Have I overplayed my hand yet? I’d hate to overplay my hand.

  103. 103
    GOP4Me says:

    Start ignorance of history there dude.

    Lend-Lease.

    Yalta.

    Goodbye, Eastern Europe!

    Nuff said.

  104. 104
    Ancient Purple says:

    Only one man born without sin, and they nailed Him to a tree.

    I am sure you were remembering this during the Clinton Administration, right?

  105. 105
    Davebo says:

    You might recall that just a few days back the right-wing agenda was all about republishing those Danish cartoons to show those barbaric Muslims that we care more about free speech than their silly feelings. If publishing the cartoons leads them to riot more, too bad!

    I made the mistake of asking the question at Protein Wisdom. If publishing the cartoons is a good thing even though it will inflame those in the middle east and likely put our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan in more danger, why is publishing the newly released Abu Ghraib photos a bad thing even though it accomplishes the same thing?

    Response. “You lowlife anti-semite! You’re banned!” and all comments deleted.

  106. 106
    GOP4Me says:

    Have I overplayed my hand yet? I’d hate to overplay my hand.

    Sorry, I think that happened several days ago. I feel sorry for you, friend.

  107. 107
    Davebo says:

    Lend-Lease.

    ROTFLMAO!

  108. 108
    Steve says:

    Hey smart guy, I’m opposed to the war, for precisely the same reason.

    I didn’t realize that being concerned about how the debate of this deal might be further harming our reputation in the Middle East automatically makes one a warmongering neoconservative.

    The reason why people (myself included) lampoon the argument that we need to approve the transaction for PR reasons is the hypocrisy of the people pushing it. That’s not to say it’s not a good point when advanced by someone with sincerity.

    Still, if our leadership hadn’t spent the last 4 years demonstrating its utter disdain for what the rest of the world thinks, ridiculing diplomacy as characteristic of a pre-9/11 mindset, and doing everything in its power to alienate the Arab world, we wouldn’t have a dilemma at all right now. We could do an ordinary, legally-mandated review of a business transaction without everyone in the Middle East assuming that we act out of hatred and xenophobia. We, and by we I mean people that I didn’t vote for, kind of made our own bed on this one. It’s too late to tell the overwhelming majority of the American people that they need to suck it up and not worry about security because the administration has decided it’s time to start recovering its lost credibility.

  109. 109
    over it says:

    Hey smart guy, I’m opposed to the war, for precisely the same reason.

    Firstly…Smart GAL, not smart guy. ;)

    Secondly, perhaps my use of the word ‘you’ was incorrectly taken to mean ‘you ,Zerthimon, and only you’. This was not my intention…blame my poor grammatical skills. ;)

    It is predominantly Republicans that are espousing the view that I questioned. It was presumably a Republican that you block quoted. And, fairly or not, it is my view that it is almost assuredly the the vast majority who adhere to the ‘stance’ that I laid out are Republican.

    My ‘you’ could have (and, apparently should have) been supplanted by ‘Republicans’.

    So, yeah, no beef with ‘you’…only with ‘them’.

    Please to not make me ramble off another post explaining who ‘they’ are. ;)

    heh…

  110. 110
    over it says:

    The reason why people (myself included) lampoon the argument that we need to approve the transaction for PR reasons is the hypocrisy of the people pushing it. That’s not to say it’s not a good point when advanced by someone with sincerity.

    Thank you Steve, a far more eloquent version of what I was trying to say. ;)

  111. 111
    Steve says:

    Sorry, I think that happened several days ago. I feel sorry for you, friend.

    Well, I don’t know what else you’d expect from the hateful 49% who thinks Lend-Lease was a good idea. I enjoyed your dissertation above on your extensive study of foreign languages, but I had no idea you were so eager to learn German as well.

    If only I could stick to responsible rhetoric like declaring all Jews and teachers of evolution are going to Hell. But alas, a hateful hand-overplayer I was born to be, and a hateful hand-overplayer I shall remain.

  112. 112
    tzs says:

    GOP4Me, as someone who belongs to a member of a religion Christians have had no difficulties burning at the stake….

    …as someone who knows what such nice “Christian” beliefs about the ultimate destination of Jews lead to in Germany not a very long time ago…

    …I suggest you learn a bit more about history and then shut your bloody gob. From where I stand there’s not much difference between the Dominionists and the Taliban. If you’re female, and intelligent, and sexual, you end up dead.

  113. 113
    Zerthimon says:

    Still, if our leadership hadn’t spent the last 4 years demonstrating its utter disdain for what the rest of the world thinks, ridiculing diplomacy as characteristic of a pre-9/11 mindset, and doing everything in its power to alienate the Arab world, we wouldn’t have a dilemma at all right now. We could do an ordinary, legally-mandated review of a business transaction without everyone in the Middle East assuming that we act out of hatred and xenophobia. We, and by we I mean people that I didn’t vote for, kind of made our own bed on this one. It’s too late to tell the overwhelming majority of the American people that they need to suck it up and not worry about security because the administration has decided it’s time to start recovering its lost credibility.

    I’m going to partly disagree with that. I think the claim that the administration didn’t care what the rest of the world, especially the Middle East thought, doesn’t fit with several facts.

    For example, after 9/11 Bush made an effort to indicate that Islam was a peaceful religion. Why did he do that? He wanted to indicate to the middle east that America wasn’t waging a crusade against Islam.

    The administration tried to block the systematic torture going on in Gitmo, and the indefinite detention of detainees from getting out. Why? Partly because they were afraid of the effects it would have in the Middle East, and the fear that it would give more fuel to terrorists. Remember how the Pentagon got upset when Newsweek reported on the Koran being flushed down the toilet?

    If one reads the Pentagon plan that was written in 2005 on how to conduct the campaign against violent islamic extremists (it’s in U.S. News and World Report), they make mention that the war can not be won just militarily. PR is a massive part of it. We must conduct a campaign to show that the fuel that terrorists use to recruit people, such as a supposed American hatred of Arabs, isn’t true.

    Now I’ll agree the administration didn’t care as much as they should have. And should have taken into greater consideration how their actions would affect the perception of the rest of the world. But to say they didn’t care at all I can’t agree with.

  114. 114
    Zerthimon says:

    It is predominantly Republicans that are espousing the view that I questioned. It was presumably a Republican that you block quoted. And, fairly or not, it is my view that it is almost assuredly the the vast majority who adhere to the ‘stance’ that I laid out are Republican.

    If you’re talking about the part I italicized, it wasn’t a republican. It was the senior executive at Dubai Ports World.

    I can find many quotes from Democrats and critics of Bush though who share the same belief.

  115. 115
    over it says:

    Correct me if I am wrong (and I may well be)…but….didn’t Bush’s whole “Islam is a peaceful religion” push begin AFTER the following quote?

    “This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.”
    –George W. Bush

    That it was more a frantic backpeddling due to the outcry than it was a part of his ‘original plan’? That his rush to the defense of Islam was more CYA than one of conviction?

    Just sayin….

  116. 116
    Faux News says:

    Why hasn’t Stormy (aka Vixen News) chimed in yet? She must be on Red State fuming about the “shoot to wound” proposal for cops in New York.

  117. 117
    Steve says:

    For example, after 9/11 Bush made an effort to indicate that

    Islam was a peaceful religion. Why did he do that? He wanted to indicate to the middle east that America wasn’t waging a crusade against Islam.

    The administration tried to block the systematic torture going on in Gitmo, and the indefinite detention of detainees from getting out. Why? Partly because they were afraid of the effects it would have in the Middle East, and the fear that it would give more fuel to terrorists. Remember how the Pentagon got upset when Newsweek reported on the Koran being flushed down the toilet?

    I agree with you that Bush’s public statements about religion have been extremely responsible and statesmanlike. You can tell I’m right because the right wing routinely lampoons him for saying these things. I think it took a lot of character to make one of your first statements after 9/11 the statement that Islam is not the enemy. Ultimately, though, I think these statements have been completely drowned out by our actions in the ears of the Middle East.

    The second part of your point actually exemplifies my frustration. To this administration, it’s ALL a PR issue. This is an administration that looks high and low for legal justifications to engage in torture instead of saying hey, let’s just not torture. This is an administration that spent far more time decrying those who publicized Abu Ghraib than they did taking responsibility for what went on there.

    My view is that more action and fewer words over the last four years would have gone a lot farther towards winning those hearts and minds.

  118. 118
    jaime says:

    Looks like it’s time to recap GOP4Me’s greatest hits one more time since he seems to have relapsed into thinking that he belongs in the discussion.

    Steve, you forgot to mention GOP4Me’s brilliant and glorious plan that would have had the U.S. marching on Moscow right after WWII. What other dumbshit ideas do you have for us?

  119. 119

    Bush was after Ken Lay–when Ken Lay was a Pioneer.

  120. 120
    Pb says:

    Wow. Break out one fact, and Don Surber disappears in a puff of logic. However, GOP4Me is back with a vengeance. What is this, tag-team idiocy?

    GOP4Me,

    While you’re in your manic phase, I’d like to run a few things by you and see if they check out–if I’m wrong or missing anyone/anything important, feel free to chime in:

    Bush is a crusader for freedom and Joe McCarthy is a patriotic american hero, Jimmy Carter is a dastardly traitor and Dick Cheney is a wizened elder statesman, George Soros works for the KGB and Rupert Murdoch is a flaming liberal, Fox News is the most trusted name in news (such as it is) and MSM stands for Mainstream Moonbats, and apparently Jane Fonda, Ward Churchill, and Cindy Sheehan secretly run the the Democratic party from an undisclosed location.

    Oh, and your latest addition–rich, famous, popular, blonde, vapid female pop stars might very well be conservative Republicans! Hey, do you guys get Paris Hilton too, or is voting totally not hot? Also, what about the guys? Hanson?

  121. 121
    Pooh says:

    For example, after 9/11 Bush made an effort to indicate that Islam was a peaceful religion. Why did he do that? He wanted to indicate to the middle east that America wasn’t waging a crusade against Islam.

    My recollection is that one of his first speeches used the word “Crusade” which undercuts a whole lot of what you claim he said. Cringe-worthy it was.

    The administration tried to block the systematic torture going on in Gitmo, and the indefinite detention of detainees from getting out. Why? Partly because they were afraid of the effects it would have in the Middle East, and the fear that it would give more fuel to terrorists. Remember how the Pentagon got upset when Newsweek reported on the Koran being flushed down the toilet?

    Qua? If by block you mean defining torture in such a way as to what went on at Gitmo not counting, then yes, I agree.

  122. 122
    Theseus says:

    You either support the president or you hate America and want the terrorists to win. That means you, Michelle Malkin.

    One wonders why some liberals might get ‘angry’ after five continuous years of this crap.

    One wonders why they’ve been so inept and spinless in countering any of it, especially after the first four? If they can get away with shit like this it’s because their political opposition is too incompetant or too stupid to stop them. You guys must be real gluttons for punishment. Self-loathing and all that. Here’s a better idea, instead of bitching and moaning about it, try winning elections.

    But hey, Dem partisans would never do crap like this in order to pursue their political agenda. Nope. Never.

    Just try criticizing any of their pet projects, policies or any of their precious “progressive” ideology.

  123. 123
    Lines says:

    Theseus:
    Was there a point in your post, or is it all on your head?

    If you want to pull out the “winning elections” meme now that Republicans in general are polling lower than syphilitic sores, feel free.

  124. 124
    jaime says:

    Man, it’s gonna be a sad day for the hard core right when an election doesn’t go there way. I’m talking suicide watch. To set this up as a battle against the stable, moral, wholesome, honest, patriotic champions of America vs. the hideous, traitorous, destructive, angry, insane, amoral minority is a recipe for disaster.

    If and when you lose some of your complete power it’ll be fuckin’ doomsday for people like GOP4me. At least Stormy’s got Tivo.

  125. 125
    Steve says:

    Man, it’s gonna be a sad day for the hard core right when an election doesn’t go there way.

    Take a look at anything they said about the last governor’s election in Washington. Anything the Democrats said about Florida in 2000, multiply it by 100 and attribute it to the other side. With every discovery of 12 Republican votes that supposedly weren’t counted in such-and-such precinct, anguished wails ensue about the death of our democracy. It’s just amazing how much sympathy they can muster when it’s their ox being gored.

  126. 126
    jaime says:

    Anything the Democrats said about Florida in 2000, multiply it by 100

    If you thought the Brooks Brother’s riot was bad, wait until ’08 when every Republican staffer in D.C. will somehow be on vacation at the same time as thousands of “concerned citizens” show up at precincts to beat up and harrass poll workers.

  127. 127
    Zerthimon says:

    Qua? If by block you mean defining torture in such a way as to what went on at Gitmo not counting, then yes, I agree.

    Sorry, I meant blocking the revealing of it.

    And about the Crusade mention. If Bush doesn’t care what the Middle East thinks, why would he have tried to clear up what he said? You’ve just reinforced my point.

  128. 128
    Pooh says:

    I’m feeling churlish today, so, apologies in advance, but my mom always used to say “if you were sorry, you wouldn’t have done it in the first place”.

  129. 129
    Richard 23 says:

    That meme is just a ruse for shouting down opinions those in power don’t happen to like.

    What really gives aid and comfort to the enemy is when one group of Americans label another group “traitors” over a difference of opinion, and call for stupid laws such as a new Anti-Sedition Act.

    The authoritarians among us don’t really care what the “enemy” thinks. If they are more worried about what the “enemy” thinks than citizens of their own country, perhaps they themselves are the real “traitors.”

  130. 130
    Pb says:

    Richard 23,

    Indeed. Don’t Be A Sucker.

  131. 131
    Ancient Purple says:

    William F. Buckley is a spiritual mentor.

    Your spiritual mentor just threw in the towel on Iraq.

  132. 132
    Leonidas says:

    Well, no earthly king, anyway. I bow to the King of Heaven.

    Amen to that. In these United States, we have no king but Jesus.

  133. 133
    GTinMN says:

    GOP4Me:

    Well, no earthly king, anyway. I bow to the King of Heaven.

    Leonidas:

    Amen to that. In these United States, we have no king but Jesus.

    How nauseatingly Pharisiac of you both. You fool no one here with your blatant hypocrisy.

    Seriously, sanctimonious displays in the face of the willful ignorance, selfishness and rapaciousness with which you conduct yourselves on this and other blogs is just vile. If you’re going to proudly claim to be a Christian, expect to be called out on it until you both learn to act like you understand what it means. The contempt you show for your fellow humans indicates you haven’t a clue about just how waaay far left Jesus was relative to your orientation.

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