No screaming eagle shit, Kos and Steven D.:
US Army Admits Use of White Phosphorus as Weapon by Steven D
Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 02:48:58 PM PDT
(From the diaries. Let’s see them deny this shit now — kos)
That’s right. Not from Al Jazheera, or Al Arabiya, but the US fucking Army, in their very own publication, from the (WARNING: pdf file) March edition of Field Artillery Magazine in an article entitled “The Fight for Fallujah”:
“WP [i.e., white phosphorus rounds] proved to be an effective and versatile munition. We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes when we could not get effects on them with HE. We fired ‘shake and bake’ missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out.”
In other words the claim by the US Government that White Phosphorus was used only for illumination at Fallujah had been pre-emptively debunked by the Army. Indeed, the article goes on to make clear that soldiers would have liked to have saved more WP rounds to use for “lethal missions.”
It is difficult for me to imagine finding a group of people more collectively eager to villify individuals regarding subjects they do not understand than the folks peddling this idiocy. Notwithstanding the continued assertion that WP is somehow a ‘chemical weapon’ (the Kossacks even have a ‘chemical weapons’ tag), the real assertion that continues to rankle most of us is the continued insistence that these rounds were used indiscriminately to attack civilians, used carelessly and killed a number of civilians, and that the rounds are somehow banned weapons.
As I have stated repeatedly, while WP has a number of uses, the primary one is illumination and marking. It has a number of different uses, but using WP is not illegal or somehow ‘worse’ than having an HE round dumped on your head (and I have had HE rounds dumped on my head- well within ‘danger close’ in an accidental friendly fire incident), it is not a violation of international law, and no one is trying to hide anything.
WP can also be used to force the enemy to abandon a ditch, to escape the burning bits of phosphorus. He can then be engaged with direct fires or DPICM.
There is nothing prohibiting a commander from using WP rounds against an armed enemy in the field, nor should there be. This idea that DPICM is somehow more humane than WP is a feel-good illusion propogated by people who lead sheltered lives.
Others are simply reaching for any argument, no matter how outlandish, with which to slander our troops with vile and ill-informed accusations in order to score cheap political points.
I avoid accusations of ‘anti-americanism’ and other crap like that, which I usually find as pointless and offensive as the ‘chickenhawk stuff,’ so I bristled with the last sentence in that quote when Jason wrote it yesterday. But that was yesterday. I really do not know what is motivating these people to continue to make these claims other than a hatred of the war in Iraq that runs so deep they are willing to say anything, including launching their own careless artillery salvos of outright falsehoods intended to bring down the evil Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld neo-con cabal, but tragically scoring only collateral damage- the reputation of this country and our military
A military composed of troops, I might add, who are only doing their jobs and using the weapons they are provided, trained, and authorized to use. Furthermore, they take pride in using those weapons carefully so as not to harm innocents, unlike Steven D. and those like him, who deploy their rhetorical bombs with no such caution.
And it galls me to no end that Kos, a former artilleryman who claims to know something about the military and claims to care about our troops, continues to support and push this nonsense. It is disgusting.
*** Update ***
And the bullshit continues in earnest. It is no longer just an accusation with no verification (and an ugly one at that), but now the ‘nuanced’ position at DKos is that we did in fact do everything that the Italian crew has accused.
These shits are making me sick.
And you can just go to hell, you ignorant twerp. While making these vile accusations and repeating the agitprop of those who neither care to tell the truth nor having any interest in recanting once their nonsense is exposed may make you feel good about yourself (Aren’t you noble- you are against the war, and to show how against the war you are you will repeat, ad nauseum, claims you neither understand nor have ANY proof of), you are smearing the good name of a lot of guys who have done nothing wrong, all in your zeal to do combat with an administration you don’t like. BTW- I never referred to anyone as anti-American (nor, for that matter, did Jason), so you might re-read this post and edit yours accordingly, but I am not counting on it. Accuracy and honesty are not strong points from some on the left regarding issues like this.
I am done discussing this issue before I explode into a real rage. I understand people are against the war, and I am willing to allow people to say their piece. But when people start accusing troops of indiscrimiinately, and worse yet, intentionally using ‘chemical weapons’ to target civilians, we have gone beyond people saying their piece. At that point, you have become nothing more than a willing mouthpiece for those who sincerely do wish to do harm to our troops, the innocent civilians of Iraq, and this country. Even worse, it is being done for little more than domestic political considerations. And I won’t excuse, forgive, or forget that.
There is a special place in hell for people like that.
Just out of curiosity- how did Jesse find someone dumber than Amanda?
*** Update ***
Also here, from another
monster who indiscriminately used chemical weapons on civilians war criminal veteran:
Way back when I used to work gunnery for the big bullets – 203mm/8” artillery.
You recieve a call for fire about a battalion column of vehicles on road X, extending from grid Y to grid Z. Say it’s been spotted by an FO attached to a short company of our tanks and a couple of squads of infrantry. They are undetected, but badly outnumbered.
A slick FDO would check which way the wind was blowing on the battlefield, order a shell-mix, fuze mix mission: two or three rounds of WP to land upwind and several hundred meters on the far side of the target, and a crapload of HE/Quick and HE/VT fired as immediate suppression.
If you use illumination rounds, which are basically bazillion candle power magnesium flares, you light up EVERYTHING. Not good for the undetected friendlies close to the enemy. Selecting WP on the ground beyond the enemy combined with an immediate, uncorrected volley of HE will A) creates a glowing white wall about a hundred meters tall, backlighting everything in front of it for the observing good guys to target, B)prevents the enemy from seeing jack doodly anywhere else because they will be dazzled by the glare, C) prevents the enemy from running away in the direction of the WP smoke because they know that they’ll be cooked if they go that way, and D)panic and disorganize the column due to the huge explosions on the ground and above it, even if the first, uncorrected barrage lands a few hundred meters wide – giving the friendlies on the point a good chance to strike hard and fast first – and then the next barrage WILL be corrected and on target.
Willie Pete has many uses.
Ugly stuff, war. Thank God we still produce people who know how to do it right.
He actually knows a thing or two about this evil ‘chemical weapon, ‘ though, so best to ignore him and keep chanting that we used banned chemical weapons on innocent civilians. Because the Bush cabal must be defeated, no matter the cost, of course.
*** Update ***
Congrats, jerks. Steven D’s post is now giving international ‘exposure’ to the lie that we ‘used phosphorus on civlians.’ Then some fool like Justin Raimondo can cite it, which can then be cited on Al Jazeera, and then so on and so forth. And before you know it, more bullshit agitprop is ‘real!’
But hey- the cause has been served!
*** Update ***
Another war criminal admits to using white phosphorus in Iraq:
Sometimes, inexperienced company commanders can forget about their mortar section’s importance to the company during the counterinsurgency fight. On all raids and cordon and searches, I took a minimum of one 60 mm tube with 24 rounds of high explosive, 12 rounds of illumination and six white phosphorus rounds. They suppressed enemy personnel in the objective area, suppressed personnel attempting to escape, illuminated the battlefield and marked targets for rotary-wing air support when it was needed. Because the FOB was located on the edge of a town, I would periodically (on average, four times a week) use mortar illumination rounds as pseudo harassing and interdicting fires. My intent was not to cause any unnecessary casualties, but I wanted them to know that we were still there and alert.
Quick, Kos, before the government destroys the evidence. Get a screen capture for use at the Hague and the ICC!
Plus, harassment and interdiction is so VIETNAM! QQQQQQUAGMIRE!
*** Update ***
Post edited for language to appease the net nannies who are quick to point out that I have violated my civility rules but yet remain unfazed that people, with no evidence whatsoever, continue to claim that our troops intentionally (or, perhaps, unintentionally) fired ‘chemical weapons’ with magical properties at civilians, causing the moral equivalent of Hiroshima (seriously- someone made the comparison in the comments). All claims, of course, are ill-informed and designed for domestic political advantage.
*** Update ***
HAHAHA! Accusing American soldiers of war crimes and using chemical weapons is funny! Look how mad I have made some people! Let’s see if I can push John Cole over the deep end! Watch me go eat my own poo!
*** Update ***
More military geniuses in the comments at Pandagon:
What part of the troops were ordered to do this does he not understand? This is not about demonizing the troops, they are soldiers doing what they are told, following orders sent down by the Pentagon. Same rule applies to the Abu Grahib torture scandals, that too is not about demonizing the troops or blaming a few “bad apples,” it’s about their commanders, and ultimately it is about the Commander in Chief.
Anyone with a basic grasp of how the military works knows that the people responsible for actions like these are not the soldiers following orders.
Now they were ordered to use that evil chemical weapon known as white phosphorus on the troops. Anyone with any grasp of the military would know that!
Come on John Cole, you greasy stain on your father’s pants, the army has lowered the IQ quota so low that I’m sure even you could get in.
Because we didn’t vote for the guy who vetoed the bill to get the troops proper armor, buddy.
I will show you my DD 214 if you show me yours.
Seriously- you can not even parody these fools. Part of the reason that I just removed Pandagon from the blogroll months ago. It is a waste of bandwidth. The best part of Pandagon is named Ezra Klein, and his site is worth a daily read.
*** Update ***
More unintentional humor from the folks at Pandagon:
I never knew anybody who’d been in combat that is so seemingly casual about the use of Willy Pete, JJE. What leads you to believe this “person” has been in?
Fool #1: Our troops massacred civilians with chemical weapons!
Me: Um, no they didn’t. They used WP, which is not a chemical weapon and is approved for military use.
Fool #2: Why are you so callous about employing WP! And how do I know for sure you were in the military?
*** Update ***
Even more here.