Here is a lede paragraph you don’t want to see if you are Dick DeGuerin:
U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay’s chief lawyer says he has no evidence that Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle participated in grand jury deliberations, despite having made that allegation in motions to dismiss DeLay’s indictments.
But Houston attorney Dick DeGuerin said there have been enough public comments by grand jurors in news media reports to raise suspicions that Earle may have violated laws in his efforts to indict one of the most powerful Republican politicians in the nation.
DeGuerin is seeking access to grand jury records to develop possible evidence of misconduct on Earle’s part. He has subpoenaed records from two of his assistant district attorneys related to their dealings with three grand juries that investigated DeLay.
Read the whole thing- it does seem like Earle has engaged in some weird machinations, but I have no idea if there is any validity to what DeLay and company are charging.
Tim Fuller
Given all the bad things that these ‘conservatives’ have been up to, there is no reason at this point to give them the benefit of doubt. Why are you? Are you going to be similarly ‘surprised’ (like you were with the torture) when the smoking gun evidence finally surfaces?
Delay is a crook. Pure and simple.
You really need to get out more.
Enjoy.
TallDave
Of course, that goes both ways. One could just as easily say:
“It does seem like DeLay has done engaged in some weird machinations, but I have no idea if there is any validity to what Earle and company are charging.”
TallDave
Oh, and Earle’s son is running for office. Coincidence, I’m sure. No quid pro quo for donations from Dems there!
John Cole
Earle has an indictment. I have nothing. I disagree with you.
Steve
From a lawyer’s perspective, DeGuerin has simply been mounting a very aggressive defense – exactly what he is getting paid to do. I don’t know if his motion to dismiss the first indictment has any merit, for example, but it’s clearly been filed not just because it might succeed but because DeLay knows that his friends on the Right will run with it and say, “See! This prosecutor is so out-of-control that he indicted for a crime that doesn’t exist!” Whether that’s correct or not is beside the point – the point is that public opinion is important, and this keeps the “out-of-control” meme alive.
The business about accusing Earle of prosecutorial misconduct, seeking to take his deposition, etc., seems like obvious grandstanding to me. Maybe the court will prove me wrong. But my point is, it’s not at all uncommon for a public figure to mount an aggressive, public defense, whether or not they did anything wrong.
The judge will rule on all these issues, probably very soon. Of course, if he doesn’t rule in DeLay’s favor, I’m sure we’ll start hearing about how the judge is a partisan hack too, because, you know, it’s just not possible that DeLay actually violated some law.
TallDave
John,
You can indict a ham sandwich.
John S.
That is true. It also appears to be true that you can fool some of the people all the time.
Jack Roy
John Cole,
…but I have no idea if there is any validity to what DeLay and company are charging
That’s what I love about being a knee-jerk Dean-voting liberal Democrat. I automatically assume that Republican officials are lying about everything, and I never get surprised.
Tall Dave,
Appropos of nothing: The old quip refers to a prosecutor’s absolute control over the grand jury process and is expressed that a D.A. could persuade a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. It’s somewhat exaggerated, as (I think) best expressed by an old Law & Order line, roughly: “We got nothing on him. You can indict a ham sandwich, but that’s different; there’s meat on a ham sandwich.”
Pb
From an amicus brief in Illinois v. Abbott, 8/13/1982:
One of the respondents was Harriett Miers, so I guess I agree with her about something…
Shygetz
Yeah, but the grand jury didn’t indict a ham sandwich. They indicted DeLay. They decided that a crime had been committed, and that there was evidence that DeLay did it. I guess if the ham sandwich had been implicated, your comment might have made sense, but since the ham sandwich was never even made a subject of investigation, you just wasted part of the Internet. I want a refund.
TallDave
you can fool some of the people all the time.
Well, people keep voting for socialism, so I guess so.
TallDave
Shygetz,
It’s an expression meaning you can indict virtually anyone for virtually anything. Indictment is not proof of anything.
Jack Roy
Whoa, TallDave, you just blew my mind!
Is “nononononon sequitur” good Latin?
Jack Roy
Well, hangon TallDave, that’s not really true at all. The grand jury has to believe that the evidence meets a threshold and that the prosecutor can make a prima facie case. The defendant doesn’t get to present his entire defense (that being reserved for the petit jury), so it’s not very good proof of actual guilt-beyond-a-reasonable-doubt, but to say “Indictment is not proof of anything” is reckless hyperbole. It quite clearly is evidence of something, if not evidence of legal guilt. You or I could not be indicted, for instance, for the Kennedy assasination. Nor could we be indicted (I’m assuming) for violating the Texas campaign finance laws, because there’s absolutely no evidence that we did so. In Tom Delay’s case, there is some evidence that he broke the law, so he could be (and was) indicted.
TallDave
Jack,
No, it’s not proof of anything. It’s evidence of suspicion of something.
DeGuerin suspects Earle committed a crime. Earle suspects DeLay committed a crime.
You or I could not be indicted, for instance, for the Kennedy assasination. Nor could we be indicted (I’m assuming) for violating the Texas campaign finance laws,
Sure you could. All we need is 12 people who agree you may have done something wrong.
John S.
Oh is that what you Bushites are calling your programs these days? I thought you were still toting that compassionate conservative moniker.
John S.
Gee, TallDave, you seem to have such low expectations of our justice system. You imply that it is easily manipulated and prone to producing false results…
After 5 years of the Bush administration, I wonder where one would get such a notion.
TallDave
I’m not a Bushite. I am anti-socialist, though, and never liked the socialist aspects of Bush policy, like the Medicare expansion. But of course the Dems are much worse on that issue.
TallDave
you seem to have such low expectations of our justice system
Heh. Two words: OJ Simpson.
John S.
Not anymore. Social programs gone awry. Pork barrel spending. Nation building. The Republicans own these issues now.
Touché! Of course, I’m sure you realize there is a world of difference between a grand jury and a jury of one’s peers.
Mike
This will be old news soon. Delay has done more good for the country than Earle could ever hope to do and the public realizes this
Steve
TallDave,
Are you pro-death penalty, by the way?
John S.
LMAO
KC
Mike is pretty funny, huh?
Otto Man
Right. And polls that say otherwise — like this one and this one and, oh boy, certainly this one — are all wrong.
Rasmussen has him at a 17% approval rating. Sounds like the public has a pretty good idea of what DeLay’s done to the country.
Shygetz
TallDave–It takes more than suspicion. There must be some evidence. Suspicion is all it takes for the DA to offer charges; the grand jury must conclude that there is sufficient evidence for a true bill to be issued. (And I think that only 8 of the 12 jurors has to agree, but I’m not sure). You can’t indict a ham sandwich, but you can indict an innocent man. Which is why we have a trial. But you are saying that an indictment doesn’t mean there’s smoke; an indictment means there’s smoke, but not necessarily a fire.
Madmatt
And let us not forget the head juror of the grand jury who is a Delay supporter and even he said that Delays crimes were too numerous to count.
Andrew J. Lazarus
There’s just nothing sacred to the Bush crowd when their own asses are on the line. Funny how the entire core of Anglo-American jurisprudence doesn’t hack it any more when they become the target.
Luckily, there is a Plan B. That most brilliant man and best governor ever finds the criminals with an outstretched arm and plops them in a cell next to Jose Padilla. No grand jury, no trial, no problem.
Sojourner
Such as?
Cassidy
What does Earle have against ham? The Texas Cattleman’s Association must be behind this!
Davebo
“Delay has done more good for the country than Earle could ever hope to do and the public realizes this.”
The public realizes this?
“HOUSTON — The majority of voters in House Majority Leader Tom DeLay’s district do not approve of his job performance, according to an exclusive Local 2 poll released Monday.”
click2houston.com/politics/4441145/detail.html
Delay already realizes he’s gerrymandered himself out of a job.
ppGaz
Heh, indeed. You don’t have much respect for juries, if this thread is any indication … you basically trash them.
You don’t have much respect for the voting public … you dismiss them as voting for “socialism.”
You don’t like voters, or juries. Why do you live in America, Dave? Seems you’d be happier in Iran, or Kuwait.
ppGaz
Mike is on the DougJ Alert Watch “Have you seen this serial spoofer” milk carton.
Posts like his, above, are right out of the DougJ playbook.
A C-130 aircraft will be dispatched to fly directly into the eye of the post and take measurements ….
slide
Steve had a great question for TallDave, “Do you support the death penalty?” I’m curious TallGuy? what’s your response?
Steve S
So his first allegation turned out to be a lie.
But you easily start carrying water for his second allegation.
Nice work John. Maybe you’ll get a Medal of Freedom for your hard work carrying water.
John Gillnitz
Mike Says:
House of Scandal has a full list of the “good” DeLay has done for the US.
houseofscandal.org/main.html
jg
Don’t attack the merits of the statement. Think of it this way. There are people who believe the future of this country is secured first through abolishment of the democratic party and the ‘socialism’ that the democratic party is trying to force on good old fashioned hard working red blooded americans. How hard is to then think they would see future history books glorifying the likes of Delay or Miers or Bush or Rove?
‘Treason is simply a matter of dates’.
If you’re a soft fat ass like Rove you can’t get dates so you commit treason. Ok the last part was stupid but shut up I’m on medicaation.
Pug
DeLay is going to be booked sometime this week. A warrant, actually a capias, has been issued for his arrest. You will see his mug shots all over the papers and TV within a week.
That should do wonders for his standing with the public. That would be an opposing campaign managers dream, huh? Being able to use mug shots of your opponent.
Nick Lampson is a former congressman from the Beaumont area who was gerrymandered out of his seat by DeLay. He has announced he is running for DeLay’s seat in 2006.
Lines
Break out the champaign, the party is just starting
Art Monster
What’s a “lede”?
Steve
A lede is the opening of a newspaper story.
Art Monster
Thanks Steve.. the dictionary had nothing on it. Pronounced as in “greed”?
How appropriate eh?.
Shalimar
Back to the article, Earle has been in office for decades so we have to presume he knows everything that is and isn’t permissable in a grand jury. I doubt the charges are going to get thrown out for procedural improprieties.
kl
Good idea!