Police Involved In Looting

There are reports police themselves were taking part in the looting:

Law enforcement efforts to contain the emergency left by Katrina slipped into chaos in parts of New Orleans Tuesday with some police officers and firefighters joining looters in picking stores clean.

At the Wal-Mart on Tchoupitoulas Street, an initial effort to hand out provisions to stranded citizens quickly disintegrated into mass looting. Authorities at the scene said bedlam erupted after the giveaway was announced over the radio.

While many people carried out food and essential supplies, others cleared out jewelry racks and carted out computers, TVs and appliances on handtrucks.

Some officers joined in taking whatever they could, including one New Orleans cop who loaded a shopping cart with a compact computer and a 27-inch flat screen television.

Officers claimed there was nothing they could do to contain the anarchy, saying their radio communications have broken down and they had no direction from commanders…

Throughout the store and parking lot, looters pushed carts and loaded trucks and vans alongside officers. One man said police directed him to Wal-Mart from Robert’s Grocery, where a similar scene was taking place. A crowd in the electronics section said one officer broke the glass DVD case so people wouldn’t cut themselves.

“The police got all the best stuff. They’re crookeder than us,” one man said.

Most officers, though, simply stood by powerless against the tide of law breakers.

One veteran officer said, “It’s like this everywhere in the city. This tiny number of cops can’t do anything about this. It’s wide open.”

Fabulous.






116 replies
  1. 1
    Rafael says:

    Damn, I thought they had declared martial law or something. I know the Guard is busy with rescue efforts but if this keeps going on, the chaos and anarchy will probably take many lives too. Now food and water, I understand, but TVs?, with the whole city underwater? What the hell for? I don’t know if this is sadder than it is offensive.

  2. 2
    ppGaz says:

    “Outrage”?

    A disaster of biblical proportions, and there is “outrage” over people making off with crap from a store?

    People are “shocked — shocked!” to find out that the NOPD isn’t all a bunch of (if you’ll excuse the expression), Saints?

    Yeah, that’s big news, and definitely something to be outraged about.

    Are we just performing an experiment now to see how far down the rat hole of the weird and irrelevant we can go with our focus at this point? If so, mission accomplished.

  3. 3
    Mr Furious says:

    I guess we now know what Barbour meant by “ruthless”.

  4. 4
    Mr.Ortiz says:

    Well they sure as hell couldn’t beat ’em.

  5. 5
    Krista says:

    I guess that’s what happens to people when they’ve lost everything and been beaten down into a state of complete hopelessness…they just don’t give a damn anymore. I can’t really condemn them, ’cause who knows how any of us would react in that same situation?

  6. 6
    Shygetz says:

    Looting and mob mentality are fascinating to watch from a distance. I’m not surprised that some cops who were unable to stem the tide joined in with the looters. I’m not too concerned with protection of property at the moment (not that I don’t think it is important, but you gotta prioritize), but I hope the cops and the Guard can prevent rioting.

  7. 7
    Jeff Maier says:

    John,

    Why jump on the whole looting bandwagon? It’s gotta rate rather low on the list of crises facing New Orleans at the moment.

  8. 8
    Seal Pool says:

    In the words of Donald Rumsfeld, “Freedom’s untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things.”

  9. 9
    John Cole says:

    Why jump on the whole looting bandwagon? It’s gotta rate rather low on the list of crises facing New Orleans at the moment.

    This constitutes ‘jumping on the looting bandwagon?’

    My only other comment was to suggest that Haley Barbour saying looters should be treated ‘ruthlessly’ was irresponsible.

  10. 10
    Jeff Maier says:

    John,

    I didn’t mean that you were “jumping on the looting bandwagon” as in let’s stop these bastards simply that I wish this whole story line would get discouraged. It’s the media’s wet dream.

    I wasn’t criticizing your position. I agree completely.

  11. 11
    Krista says:

    Disasters like this tend to bring out the true nature of people. I was living in Halifax when it was hit by Hurricane Juan, and while it wasn’t ANYWHERE close to being as bad as this, it still brought out peoples’ true natures. Some people gave what they could of their time, energy and money, and tirelessly helped others get through it. Other people bitched and moaned the entire time, or took advantage of the situation to further their own ends. (Like when one convenience store starting charging $10 for every AA battery they sold.) Such is life.

  12. 12
    Rafael says:

    It’s true, looting is not the biggest problem New Orleans has. But it’s a symptom of an uncontrolled situation and lack of coordination by the authorities. I don’t know if the media is not showing it, but it seemed like there was a bigger mobilization of police, national guard and other forces during 9/11, and this is much bigger.

    Things are bad enough, but if looting gives way to rioting, like someone says above, a lot more people could die.

  13. 13
    pmm says:

    This is rank speculation, but I doubt that the National Guard currently has the capability to deter looting, even if they thought it was worth dedicating forces to the effort. Given the nature of the crisis, it’s highly unlikely that the NG issued weapons to their troops when they mustered at their armories–having individual soldiers tote their weapons around while engaged in relief operations would be a hindrance, and the chances of a weapon being lost would be pretty high.

    Also, even if NG troops have their weapons, I wonder if they have ammo. Most ammo dumps are very secure and relatively isolated at military posts–not at small reserve centers or NG armories.

    I recall a mini-scandal after 9-11, where it was discovered that NG troops assigned to guard locations like airports and train stations in New York were issued weapons but no ammo. If Guard commanders were reluctant to issue ammo at a time like that, I doubt they’d want to risk having troops carrying ammo at a time like now…

    Anyhow I’ve limited experience w/ the NG, so I could be wrong, but that might be a factor in the authorities’ response to looting.

  14. 14
    jobiuspublius says:

    Seal Pool Says:

    In the words of Donald Rumsfeld, “Freedom’s untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things.”

    And then came Falluja.

    About the looting, I wonder of some of it is motivated by deep desparation. A more shallow desparation may provoke looting for essentials. Deep desparation may assume that NO is lost forever, if not months. How would one survive months without a home town? It could be a very scarry question for some.

    I so hope a blood bath is not provoked. Compare this to 9/11. I don’t remember any talk of looting then. I wonder why. Maybe the destruction was more complete, and focused. More police were around. Evacuation was more effective.

  15. 15
    Brian says:

    More New Orleans

    …the looting is getting worse and even police and firemen are joining in.

    (http://ownedbycats.blogspot.co.....leans.html)

  16. 16
    ape says:

    “why jump on the looting bandwagon”?

    it’s a fairly important truth it seems to me. one of the reasons why people behave like this in times of turmoil is that they think such things will be ignored, never recorded, and that they are outside the sphere of justice.

    here it is TVs being taken from shops vaguely discernible from a distant hidden camera. last night i saw some very similar footage from Rwanda, where the rampage involved repeatedly hitting kids in the head with knives till they were sure they were dead.

    yes, very different acts. however, a similar mentality. we need to report these things or else we confirm the reasoning of the perpetrators: “with everything that’s going on, who will care about me doing this?”. for this reason also, we have to report the details, which may appear petty, rather than present a mass of inextricable data. so this sort of report is exactly what bloggers should be doing.

  17. 17
    ppGaz says:

    here it is TVs being taken from shops vaguely discernible from a distant hidden camera. last night i saw some very similar footage from Rwanda, where the rampage involved repeatedly hitting kids in the head with knives till they were sure they were dead.

    yes, very different acts. however, a similar mentality.

    Just when you think you have seen everything, something like this post comes along.

    stealing Pampers and DVDs = killing kids

    Yes, the blogosphere is definitely serving a great purpose today.

  18. 18
    jobiuspublius says:

    The reporting, especially video, is important for the day these States get back on their feet and can resolve the more egregious crimes.

  19. 19
    ape says:

    ppGaz..

    i knew i should have done that ‘Math Refresher’ course!

    you have taken my verbal comparator ‘very different’ and replaced it with the sign ‘=’.

    obvously there have been many changes since my day.

  20. 20
    gratefulcub says:

    Open the doors and let them take what they want. The looting of a destroyed city has to be the last priority. People are still in severe danger, even those in the superdome need to be evacuated. That should be the one and only concern right now. That and engineers figuring out how to get rid of the water.

    Do you really want the police and national guard spending their time chasing looters and filling jails, that are underwater. Looting is bad, I know, but right now it doesn’t matter. It shouldn’t be a news story except to say, “everytime something like this happens, some people loot. No exception here. Now, back to a story that matters…….”

  21. 21
    Darrell says:

    I guess that’s what happens to people when they’ve lost everything and been beaten down into a state of complete hopelessness…they just don’t give a damn anymore. I can’t really condemn them, ‘cause who knows how any of us would react in that same situation?

    Liberals just can’t help but excuse and minimize inexcusable criminal behavior. It’s in their DNA. You think these scumbags limited their looting to Walmart only? as if it’s ok to loot any store. Hell no they didn’t.. they are stealing from mom and pop businesses and people’s homes.. stealing from those who themselves have been devastated.. no different than stealing the watch and wallet of a person hit by a car lying half-conscious. Scum of the earth. They need to be dealt with ruthlessly without mercy. But the left tells us that such unforgivable behavior is “understandable”. Who are we to judge those lowlifes stealing and looting from those most vulnerable, right?

  22. 22
    ape says:

    Darrell – quite agree about the ‘not just Walmart’ point.

    it is a terrible way of kicking someone when they’re down.

    of course noone’s saying its necessarily a priority for the police right now. but any records that can be kept should be kept.

  23. 23
    Krista says:

    Right now, EVERYBODY in N.O. is vulnerable. And I didn’t say that I condone the looting. I was saying that I can’t condemn it outright because there’s no way that any of us, sitting comfortably behind our computers, can understand precisely what those people are going through, and what their mindset is, unless we’ve been in a similar situation. I’ve only been in a very, very minimized version of that situation, and so I’m not going to presume to judge people. I agree with Gratefulcub — yes, it’s too bad that people are using this disaster to further their own ends, but right now, there are much bigger things to worry about. I’m not worried about Mom and Pop’s store — I’m worried about whether or not Mom and Pop are actually alive.

    I’ve been watching this blog for awhile, but have only started contributing to it in the last couple of days. So having been dissed by Darrell, does that mean that I’ve been initiated, so to speak? :)

  24. 24
    Darrell says:

    of course noone’s saying its necessarily a priority for the police right now

    Why wouldn’t it be a top priority? People’s lives have been devastated and the lowest forms of scum are looting what little they have left. These are not the acts of ‘desperate people’ as characterized by morally bankrupt leftists, but of predatory criminals of the worst type. Why in the hell are so many posting here clamoring to ‘lower the priority’ on dealing with the looters??

  25. 25
    Darrell says:

    Krista wrote:

    I was saying that I can’t condemn it outright because there’s no way that any of us, sitting comfortably behind our computers, can understand precisely what those people are going through

    No Krista, you are most definitely minimizing and excusing their behavior. It’s who you are, make no mistake about that. After all, who are we sitting behind our computers to judge the vermin looting from those who already lost so much? Who are we to judge?

  26. 26
    Another Jeff says:

    Darrell, i’m hardly a leftist, but you seem to be implying that there are these fat and happy people who swooped down on New Orleans for the sole purpose of looting.

    did it ever cross your mind that some of the people who lost everything are some of the people doing the looting? And that they’re looking for free DVD players, but water that they can actually drink without getting malaria (actually, i don’t even know if you can get malaria from the water in NO, but you get the point).

    There’s a difference between the people looting in New Orleans, and the worthless thugs that looted after the Rodney King verdicts. Those people actually were just looking for some free shit.

  27. 27
    BinkyBoy says:

    Darrell is a perfect example of the new “compassionate conservative” we all keep hearing about.

  28. 28
    gratefulcub says:

    Why in the hell are so many posting here clamoring to ‘lower the priority’ on dealing with the looters??

    You have got to be kidding me. I know you aren’t stupid, you have proven that. So you realize there is a limited amount of resources. The workload is overwhelming. The entire city is underwater. Mom and Pop are insured. That doesn’t make it right, but that means that mom and pop aren’t going to lose their precious TV. Ask Mom and pop if they care about their TV right now. We are morally bankrupt, you gotta be effing kidding me. If one person takes the time to stop a looter carrying a TV instead of looking for survivors, that is morally bankrupt. A box of plastic, glass, and elctronics is meaningless. Finding the people that are still in harms way is the only priority. A close second is draining the city. Feeding the people. Evacuating the people. People are the only priority. Material goods DO NOT MATTER, and no human resources should be spent trying to protect material goods.

    Are we really so blind that we don’t see the human cost of what is going on? The human costs are all that matter. If one person drowns because we took the time to stop the looters, that is morally bankrupt.

  29. 29
    Krista says:

    I think that there ARE some people there who are just looking for some free shit, and are taking advantage. But there are others who just want food, water, and living supplies. There is definitely a difference. I think that as vile as the former type of looting is, prosecuting it is just going to have to take a backseat for now while peoples’ lives are still at stake. Every second counts right now, and any and all authorities should be dealing with the task of lifesaving. They’ll just have to deal with the vultures later, when they know that everybody who could be saved, has been saved.

  30. 30
    Shygetz says:

    Darrell, obviously you know nothing about the phenomenon of looting. These are not “predatory criminals of the worst type” (at least, not most of them). Most of them are normal citizens who have seen other looting, and think “I’d better get mine while I can, or soon there will be nothing left!” The phnomenon of mob mentality has been studied intensely by psychologists and sociologists. Since you obviously are unaware of the conclusions, I can sum them up largely by saying “There, but for the grace of God, go I.”

  31. 31
    gratefulcub says:

    Just an aside. Private insurance companies don’t offer flood protection. Only the federal government offers that type of insurance. It has to be purchased separately. How many in New Orleans, especially the poorer districts, don’t have flood insurance? How many lost everything and aren’t covered at all?

    How about CNN bring up that point, and put a number on the screen for people to donate money to the ‘uninsured homeowner’s fund’ instead of showing me an interview with a man with a TV on his shoulder.

    And, how many people are actually stealing TVs? There are film clips of it, so it must be everyone. I guess they are boating the TV back to there house where they can plug up the generator and put the TV on a raft and sit back and live it up. Most people are stealing survival goods. Things they need. The few people stealing tvs are of little concern to me. Actually, they are of no concern to me.

  32. 32
    Stormy70 says:

    Right now the priorty should be the rescuing of people trapped in their homes, and the evacuation of refugees from the city. I am not going to fault a family going into a store and getting food, water, medicine or additional clothes. They have nothing left but the clothes on their back. Merchandise can be replaced and people cannot. As for the criminals looting for personal avarice, they will have a reckoning someday. I just wonder where the criminal looters think they will be selling this stuff? The city is devastated.

  33. 33
    Darrell says:

    So you realize there is a limited amount of resources. The workload is overwhelming

    You pretend the police can’t walk and chew gum. As if they can’t deal with the looters while searching for flood victims. Jails under water? handcuff the scumbags to a light pole and radio in their location. Let them sh*t their pants while waiting to be picked up. Coast guard, the national guard, and federal disaster relief agencies are much better suited for the type of rescue work which is needed. How many helicopters or boats does NOPD have? Not a fraction of what the Coast guard and the feds have available, that’s how many. Police need to protect those who are most vulnerable. It’s despicable for the left to lecture us on letting the vermin loot, with their “who are we to judge the looters” type of excuse-making. It really is despicable

  34. 34
    gratefulcub says:

    Police need to protect those who are most vulnerable

    PEOPLE, NOT THEIR CRAP

  35. 35
    gratefulcub says:

    You pretend the police can’t walk and chew gum

    Every moment spent ‘handcuffing them to lightposts’ is a moment NOT spent looking for survivors. People are in danger.

    As soon as they start telling policemen and national gaurdsmen to take a break because they have all the manpower they can handle, then they can start looking for looters. Until then, save people. You have your priorities, I have mine. Ask the people of NO what their priority is today.

  36. 36
    ppGaz says:

    Merchandise can be replaced and people cannot.

    Stormy, some reasonable-sounding person is posting and using your name.

    This is identity theft at its worst!

  37. 37
    Darrell says:

    I am not going to fault a family going into a store and getting food, water, medicine or additional clothes

    Stormy, I’ve got a lot of respect for you.. but I’m sure you’ve seen the numerous news clips of the looters. Seen even ONE person which fits the profile of a “family going into a store for food”? Or was it loot-till-we-drop type of behavior? If they are in an area with little or no flood waters, i.e. so little that they are able to loot, then food and medical aid has ALREADY arrived to the areas not flooded. These vermin are not acting out of desperation, they are predatory criminals. Nothing more than that.

    It’s the areas which are still flooded where it’s most difficult to deliver aid, not the areas where the flood waters have receded.

  38. 38
    Darrell says:

    Every moment spent ‘handcuffing them to lightposts’ is a moment NOT spent looking for survivors. People are in danger.

    Too bad your side didn’t see it that way when the Iraqi museums were being looted by an inside job. “Why didn’t you protect the museums!?” (instead of the people) with your limited resources

  39. 39
    ppGaz says:

    “Why didn’t you protect the museums!?”

    Yes of course.

    2000-year-old-irreplaceable-artifacts = Pampers and DVDs

    Great comments, Darrell. This is definitely your finest hour.

    More, more.

  40. 40
    gratefulcub says:

    Too bad your side didn’t see it that way when the Iraqi museums were being looted by an inside job. “Why didn’t you protect the museums!?” (instead of the people) with your limited resources

    Really Darrell? WTF? There are people dying. And you want to talk about ‘my side’ and ‘your side’, you want to bring up Iraq? This has nothing to do with politics, this has nothing to do with liberals and conservatives. It has to do with saving, feeding, and evacuating people. That’s it. I don’t want to hear people bitching about Bush, or the National Guard being in Iraq or any of that crap. We can all do a postmortem a year from now. The only concern is saving as many people as possible. Every single resource goes to protecting and saving people. I don’t care how many clips the cable news networks show of people with tv’s on their shoulder. It is meaningless. I will give looters 100 tvs for every person that can be saved. I know we live in a material world, but people’s crap don’t mean shit. Iraqi museums? WTF? My side? We have sides? I don’t have a side today, I am glad you can stay true to your political position during this, bravo. Save people, mom and pop can have my TV.

  41. 41
    Shygetz says:

    Too bad your side didn’t see it that way when the Iraqi museums were being looted by an inside job. “Why didn’t you protect the museums!?” (instead of the people) with your limited resources

    I think that the critique of the Baghdad Botch was that we were protecting the Oil Ministry (not the museums, or weapons dumps, OR the people) when we went into Baghdad. And by the way, 3,000 National Guard does not equal the 145,000 US and British forces that went into Iraq (not sure how many were in Baghdad, but more than 3,000).

    Next time, at least give your strawman a floppy hat.

  42. 42
    Nate says:

    Arguing with Darrell the Troll makes Baby Jesus cry.

  43. 43
    Darrell says:

    I will give looters 100 tvs for every person that can be saved.

    Stupidity to the extreme. You think there is such a tradeooff?? Are NOPD 100% tied up with search and rescue work to the point where all crime cannot be reinforced? Rape? Looting? Btw, seen even ONE search and rescue operation involving NOPD? I haven’t.. it’s all been Coast guard, Federal disaster relief and national guard.. no doubt fire dept’s emergency response resources are fully deployed as well.

    Cut the dishonest false choices between 100 tv’s vs. saving a life.

  44. 44
    Darrell says:

    meant to say enforced, not reinforced

  45. 45
    jobiuspublius says:

    Heard on AAR, that, N.O. looters are looting gun shops. Armed groups of men are roving the streets. The levees are busting, flooding the city. American Fallujah?

  46. 46
    BinkyBoy says:

    Can you just feel the compassion?

    Can I get a hallauja! Praise Jesus!

    I love you Darrell, you are the personification of everything about Conservatives I hate with a passion.

  47. 47
    Krista says:

    Oh dear…this is definitely not good. I think other countries are going to have to start sending in their military in order to help keep the peace. I think the riots might be next…and that’ll destroy anything that Katrina left standing.

  48. 48
    Nate says:

    From Amanda at Pandagon:

    So how to distract? Blame the victims.

    Steve Gilliard, who’s got a hella ear for racist dog whistles, lays it on the line–racist coverage like this is laying the groundwork for excusing away the fact that the dead are almost surely going to be disproportionately black because the poor are disproportionately black and because the poor are going to be the people who couldn’t escape the city as easily. Atrios posted on the two nearly identical pictures of people taking things they need from flooded stores where the white people were described as “finding” and the black man as “looting”. Directly before that, he rightly complained about the media whining about looters.

    Taken altogether, this is what I fear will happen: The victims of the flood will be portrayed via racist stereotypes as criminals and idiots. This will predispose the audience to disliking them. Then, after everything settles down, a few right wingers will start implying that the dead brought their own fate on themselves by being too stupid and/or criminal to evacuate. This focus will distract the pundits from discussing the real issue at hand, which is why the fuck we didn’t have the resources on hand to evacuate a city that has Hurricane Target written all over it. Before you know it, it’ll be a wingnut bonaza of people both gleefully indulging in the most racist tendencies while simultaneously claiming that the only reason one might end up dead in a hurricane is because one doesn’t have “personal responsibility”. But my guess is that the people who are dead mostly didn’t have transportation out of the city. Watch the media bury the truth of what happened so fast it’ll make your head spin.

  49. 49
    capelza says:

    Darrell it is official, you are an idiot.

    You assume the NOPD is not involved in rescue because the only news clips getting out are from helicopters (news) following other helicopers (USCG) around? Jesus H. Christ.

    I’m sure if the news sources had boats that could follow the NOPD in boats we would see more of what is really going on in the city. The thing is, we have no real comprehension of how awful it must be in that city. Really, you obviouslyhave NO clue.

  50. 50
    Luddite says:

    “Great comments, Darrell. This is definitely your finest hour”

    Agreed. Somewhere, in the dark basement of his parents’ house, DougJ is gnashing his teeth over the truimph that is Darrell. My only fear is that Darrell won’t be able to exceed his work today.

    Let’s hope Darrell does not lose his muse.

  51. 51
    Andrew J. Lazarus says:

    New Orleans used to have the most corrupt police force in the United States, culminating in a case where a relatively new recruit killed her own partner, who was moonlighting as a security guard, to rob a restaurant. The corruption wasn’t surprising given that they were also one of the worst-paid police forces. IIRC, beginning salary for a patrolman was about $14,000.

    I had, however, though things had improved somewhat.

  52. 52
    Darrell says:

    Can you just feel the compassion?

    Compassion for those being looted, yes. And contempt for the looters and those who excuse them

  53. 53
    capelza says:

    It is interesting that as I was just watching CNN, the reporter was talking about jewelry stores and the like being looted while they were doing this voice over on a clip of people walking out of stores with FOOD and WATER. Of serious concern are the armed looters. Those guys DO need to be dealt with. They only exacerbate an already dire situation.

    Came across an interesting little thing awhile ago on the web. Two different pictures of folks wading chest deep in water carrying foodstuffs. The one feeatured a dark skinned boy. The caption on that pic said he had LOOTED. The second pic was of a young white couple who, in the same conditions had FOUND food and water. I hate to play the race card, but that was pretty pathetic, really.

    And Darrell, I don’t think your finding compassion for the looters who are stealing durable goods, but just the order of priorities. Yours is property, others are for the lives of people struggling to survive in flooding attics and similar situations. TV or drowning, suffocating or otherwise succumbing in your own attic. Tough call, huh?

  54. 54
    BinkyBoy says:

    For Darrell there is no choice. We have enough people there that the looters can be stopped WHILE they are saving those that need saving. See, no choice needed! They can be compassionate and conservative at the same time and make Dear Leader proud!

    Oh, reality, how far thee hath to go to penetrate those that have rejected you for so long.

  55. 55
    Krista says:

    Originally I did indicate a reluctance to judge those who were looting non-essential goods, as I initially thought that they might not have been thinking straight due to the despair that must be permeating the place. I think that’s the “compassion” that Darrell is so pissed off about. And you know what? I probably was giving people too much of the benefit of the doubt. There are definitely those right now who are stealing (food, water, medicine) because they have to, and I’m not going to judge them for that at all. But yeah, there are definitely those people who are soulless vultures, who are stealing for no other reason than because they can. Like I said earlier…disasters tend to show the true nature of people, both good and bad. But as scummy as some people may be, I just don’t think that there is enough manpower right now to divert resources away from the essential job of saving lives and getting people out of a rapidly submerging city.

  56. 56
    Darrell says:

    And you know what? I probably was giving people too much of the benefit of the doubt.
    …I just don’t think that there is enough manpower right now to divert resources away from the essential job of saving lives and getting people out of a rapidly submerging city.

    Sensible comment.. However, it’s my understanding that NOPD’s #1 priority is public safety, not search and rescue.. a task being carried out by others with the equipment and training to do so. Where is the evidence to indicate that arresting looters, or rapists for that matter, would ‘divert resources’ away from saving lives? Please show it to me. There are large swaths of the city and surrounding parishes which are underwater and cannot be patrolled (or looted). This would seem to free up police resource to enforce the law in areas not flooded, especially with gangs of thugs controlling the streets according to CNN reports

  57. 57
    Darrell says:

    Came across an interesting little thing awhile ago on the web. Two different pictures of folks wading chest deep in water carrying foodstuffs. The one feeatured a dark skinned boy. The caption on that pic said he had LOOTED. The second pic was of a young white couple who, in the same conditions had FOUND food and water. I hate to play the race card, but that was pretty pathetic, really.

    You saw a white looter on TV? I bet I’ve seen a dozen news clips of looters pillaging and I’ve yet to see a white face. It kind of surprised me I didn’t see even one.. Either biased new coverage or the looting is being committed overwhelmingly by blacks

  58. 58
    Krista says:

    From what I’ve read, they actually have been trying to keep some modicum of control, and have been responding to any reports of violent crime. And they also evidently are completely flying by the seat of their pants, and have been given no instructions or planning. So we’ll just have to trust that they are doing the best that they can do with the situation that they’ve been given. And no, there is no evidence that arresting people would save lives, but what we DO know is that there are still people stranded who need help, and that some of those people need urgent medical attention. So if an NOPD officer is faced with the choice of letting a looter go, or letting an innocent person die…well, I know what I would choose. I agree that they have to keep a handle on any violent crime, as that is endangering people. But the stealing? Yeah, it’s scummy as hell, but it’s just going to have to take a backseat.

    I bet if any member of the N.O.P.D. could see all of this armchair quarterbacking, he or she would individually tear each of us a new one.

  59. 59
    Beej says:

    Krista, you’re right all the way around. Those taking food and other necessities really can’t be faulted too heavily. Those taking electronics and other non-necessities should be dealt with as befits any thief. However, that is going to have to wait because there are, indeed, priorities, and saving lives comes first. The one exception is those who have looted guns from gun shops. That should not have been allowed to happen. Even now CNN is reporting that people on the scene can hear gunshots. People who have already lost everything may now lose their lives through the thuggery of a few. Couldn’t a few police officers have been spared to guard gun shops?

  60. 60
    Krista says:

    And no, there is no evidence that arresting people would save lives”

    I meant, that it would divert attention away from saving lives. Sorry…this laptop is weird, and the cursor tends to jump around a bit, so sometimes I erase something pertinent by accident.

  61. 61
    BinkyBoy says:

    Maybe some of the mothers and fathers of soldiers can go steal some body armor so they can send it to their kids on the front line in Iraq?

  62. 62
    Krista says:

    “The looting is out of control. The French Quarter has been attacked,” Councilwoman Jackie Clarkson said. “We’re using exhausted, scarce police to control looting when they should be used for search and rescue while we still have people on rooftops.”

    From CBS news. I guess, when it really comes down to it, is that when you have a disaster of these proportions, there’s no way that you can ever have enough rescue/peacekeeping officials. That’s why I’m hoping that other countries will send some military aid.

  63. 63
    ppGaz says:

    Where is the evidence to indicate that arresting looters …. would ‘divert resources’ away from saving lives?

    Where will the arrestees be taken, Darrell? And by what means of conveyance?

  64. 64
    Darrell says:

    Councilwoman Jackie Clarkson said. “We’re using exhausted, scarce police to control looting when they should be used for search and rescue while we still have people on rooftops.”

    But does the Councilwoman have a clue? Seriously. I’ve seen no reports that emergency rescue operations were using NOPD to any significant extent. In fact, everything on the news indicates that there is a Keystone cops level of disorganization among law enforcement leadership combined with a lack of communication among the officers, so it’s doubtful that they are acting in any coordinated fashion with emergency relief organizations.

    That means to me that they should be out on the streets (the streets which are not flooded) enforcing the law. A number appear to be doing just that.. but I have a real problem with those claiming that by arresting looters or other criminals, they are diverting attention away from saving lives.

  65. 65
    Mr Furious says:

    In a thread riddled with your stupid comments, Darrell, this might be the stupidest…

    There are large swaths of the city and surrounding parishes which are underwater and cannot be patrolled (or looted). This would seem to free up police resource to enforce the law in areas not flooded, especially with gangs of thugs controlling the streets according to CNN reports

    Better still, send the cops from the flooded areas home, to save on overtime. WTF? The flooded areas would be where people are trapped, jackass, and every able bodied civil servant should be doing their best to save those people, fill sandbags (or something), NOT guarding the local Best Buy. Yeah, in a perfect world, those fucking thieves (yes, that’s what they are) would be getting some “ruthless” threatment, but New Orleans is pretty fucking far from a perfect world right now.

  66. 66
    Darrell says:

    Where will the arrestees be taken, Darrell? And by what means of conveyance?

    I’m sure surrounding parishes could be persuaded to temporarily take in the new guests.. especially knowing that those coming to visit are looting vermin stealing from their neighbors..

  67. 67
    Darrell says:

    That’s why I’m hoping that other countries will send some military aid.

    An excellent point. Whenever there is a large natural disaster in other parts of the world, earthquakes in India, tsunamis in Indonesia, etc. Americans are always the first, or one of the first on the scene to help. And we help in a huge way. But strange, I can’t remember any other country helping us with our natural disasters.

  68. 68
    Mr Furious says:

    Darrell Says:
    Where is the evidence to indicate that arresting looters, or rapists for that matter, would ‘divert resources’ away from saving lives? Please show it to me.

    You asked for it…

    If it wasn’t coordinated, the rescue was heroic.

    Firefighters, police and Coast Guardsmen waded through water and climbed to roofs.

    “We’ve got boats everywhere,” said Capt. Tim Bayard of the New Orleans Police Department.

    “We’re going to try and get who we can get and take them to higher ground. We may have to come back for some.”
    […] But rescue from the water didn’t mean an end to misery. They were simply dropped off at the few stretches of dry ground, overpasses and parking lots along Metairie Ridge.

    Aleck Scallan, 63, a parapelgic, was ferried in a boat from his Lakeview home. But he had been sitting for more than six hours on an overpass, with no clear indication when he and scores of others would be picked up.

    Stereos can fucking take a number.

    [Shifting slightly to a hard-assed Darrell stance…]

    Now the asshole looter that shot a cop in the head? I can’t think of a painful enough death for that guy. Something with a now-handy outboard motor sounds good to me.

    At a certain point, when the city is evacuated and people are safe, then a hard-ass curfew and quarantine should be put in place and if you are out there, you are in serious trouble. and if you are looting, you risk getting shot.

    If you sneak back into the city to loot someone’s abandoned home, you deserve to be stuck in it when it collapses. And no cop should lift a finger to help you. But that’s not a situation we can pretend to face right now. It is life and death time, Darrell. Nothing else maters.

  69. 69
    capelza says:

    Darrell Says:

    But does the Councilwoman have a clue?

    A much better clue than you from your chair in front of the TV. Unbelievable…

  70. 70
    BinkyBoy says:

    But strange, I can’t remember any other country helping us with our natural disasters.

    Yes, I knew someone would come out with this. Would Shrub be willing to accept another country bringing their military onto American soil? Would any of you right wingers willfully accept foreigners? or would you complain about them doing the looting long before the evidence presented itself?

    Yeah, bring on them furiners, we need fodder for the right.

    Wait, what are the Minutemen doing? They should be shooting the looters, after all, if they always know what an illegal border crosser is, they will know looters as well! Kind of like CNN in the post above.

  71. 71
    Krista says:

    I’d have to do some more homework before responding on how other countries have responded to natural disasters in the U.S. But in unnatural disasters, I can say that Canada did help a fair bit during 9-11. Especially the people of Newfoundland, who had all of those stranded passengers in their towns, and who gave so much of themselves to help these people.

    I know that the Canadian Red Cross is getting ready to head down there, and am researching to find out if we’ll be sending any military or police forces, like we did during 9-11. I bloody well hope we do. There’s a lot of backbiting between Canada and the U.S., but when it comes down to it, we kind of have a fraternal relationship: we might fight with each other, but in a crisis, we’re there for each other. The U.S. sent up help during Hurricane Juan and during the Ice Storm, and it was very much appreciated. So I hope that our leaders do the right thing and send all available hands down there to help.

  72. 72
    BinkyBoy says:

    Canadian help after what Bush has done to Canada? That would be the kiss of death to Canadian elected officials.

  73. 73
    Krista says:

    I just contacted our Department of Defense, and let them know that they should really be sending people down there to help out. The more hands, the better. Those that aren’t involved with rescuing people from houses can go after those stealing guns, and others can work on getting everybody evacuated safely.

  74. 74
    Darrell says:

    Would Shrub be willing to accept another country bringing their military onto American soil? Would any of you right wingers willfully accept foreigners?

    They would be welcomed and appreciated. But the problem is, other countries, other than occasional Canadian aid, never even ask if they can help. Tsunamis devastate Indonesia and Sri Lanka, Americans set up charities, US govt moves into action, navy ship, etc. But when hurricanes rip through Florida, and now LA & MS, are there any foreign assistance to speak of?? Nope

  75. 75
    Krista says:

    Canadian help after what Bush has done to Canada? That would be the kiss of death to Canadian elected officials.

    I don’t think it would. For the most part, Canadians love Americans. We don’t always agree with your government’s policies, and we kind of look askance at some of the social issues that you guys are having, but I think that most Americans are just regular people trying to make a living, be happy, and raise productive members of society. Yeah, most of us think Bush is an ass, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the people of N.O. need help. Besides…many people here are of Acadian descent, so we feel very strongly linked to Cajun culture.

  76. 76
    Demdude says:

    They would be welcomed and appreciated. But the problem is, other countries, other than occasional Canadian aid, never even ask if they can help. Tsunamis devastate Indonesia and Sri Lanka, Americans set up charities, US govt moves into action, navy ship, etc. But when hurricanes rip through Florida, and now LA & MS, are there any foreign assistance to speak of?? Nope

    This is just plain silly. It’s like Bill Gate’s house burning down. Sure, he’s got my symphathy. But am I going to setup a charity for him? Don’t think so..

    Of course Indonesia and Sri Lanka could send us their four helicopters…..

  77. 77
    Nate says:

    You saw a white looter on TV? I bet I’ve seen a dozen news clips of looters pillaging and I’ve yet to see a white face. It kind of surprised me I didn’t see even one.. Either biased new coverage or the looting is being committed overwhelmingly by blacks

    What ethnic demographic do you think is going to have the hardest time evacuating, getting to shelter, and getting supplies, Dunderhead Darrell? Think about it, we’ll wait.

    Better poke some holes in that hood.

  78. 78
    sean says:

    Mr. Furious –
    Thank you for posting that. I was friends with Captain Bayard when i lived in New Orleans (he used to be the detail officer when i worked at Fat Harry’s), so i’m elated to see that he is ok and still able to do his job.

  79. 79
    Just Some Guy says:

    But strange, I can’t remember any other country helping us with our natural disasters.

    Chavez has offered food, medical supplies and oil.

  80. 80
    DougJ says:

    SHHHH! Quiet! Darrell is on a roll, don’t interrupt him. Besides, I’m taking notes.

  81. 81
    Darrell says:

    Chavez has offered food, medical supplies and oil.

    I saw that too.. gotta admit, that was big of him to make that offer… especially after Pat Robertson tried to assasinate him and all

  82. 82
    Krista says:

    It’s not a question of money right now, I think. What’s REALLY needed right now is people. Yeah, the U.S. is definitely one of the richer countries, and it might not need money from anybody else, but more people can definitely help. Just read that 10,000 National Guard troops are heading down. Good.

  83. 83
    gratefulcub says:

    It’s not a question of money right now, I think. What’s REALLY needed right now is people. Yeah, the U.S. is definitely one of the richer countries, and it might not need money from anybody else, but more people can definitely help. Just read that 10,000 National Guard troops are heading down.

    The last thing we need is foreign troops. We have money and manpower, we are dealing with a situation that is urgent, and the last thing we need is the logistical nightmare of foreign troops helping out.

    We help Sri Lanka because they desperately need our help. We take care of our own natural disasters because we can. The world’s sole superpower and all. My question is, why hasn’t the national guard been there in force since hour number one. Shouldn’t they have been sitting in Northern Louisiana or East Texas just waiting for the storm to pass and daylight to break? I am not armchair quarterbacking or trying to bash bush in some way. I think it took too long for the size of the catastrophe to be realized.

  84. 84
    Krista says:

    I think everybody was caught with their proverbial pants down. Once the hurricane passed, everybody thought the worst was over. But then the water kept on rising, and only in the last 24 hours has it been made clear just HOW bad it is.

    In regards to not needing foreign troops. You might be right. But I’m glad our Red Cross is heading down, and I think that if the U.S. asks, we’ll definitely send more help.

  85. 85
    RSA says:

    Darrell wrote:

    You saw a white looter on TV? I bet I’ve seen a dozen news clips of looters pillaging and I’ve yet to see a white face. It kind of surprised me I didn’t see even one.. Either biased new coverage or the looting is being committed overwhelmingly by blacks

    The population of New Orleans, according to the 2000 census, is 28% white. Most of the people still stuck in New Orleans are those too poor to get out of the city, which means that that group is further skewed with respect to race. Of course TV footage (even aside from well-known biases) is going to include a lot of black people.

  86. 86
    Stormy70 says:

    Stereos can fucking take a number.

    Yes. The criminal looter’s can’t even get out of the city right now. They will be easily searched when trying to scurry out.

    Ok, the woman with the tennis shoes. I have seen lots of bare feet, the first thing I would do is protect my feet, since you will be walking through metal and glass under water. I would want some freaking high dollar tennis. Stupid media.

  87. 87
    TallDave says:

    And people wonder why we have so much trouble training Iraqi police. Even our police will turn into criminals.

  88. 88
    Darrell says:

    Yes. The criminal looter’s can’t even get out of the city right now. They will be easily searched when trying to scurry out.

    Why do you think the looting is not being done by local residents? In fact, I don’t think out-of-towners could have even entered the city in the aftermath of the storm

  89. 89
    capelza says:

    Stormy70..kudos to you. I absolutely agree.

    Darrell, Darrell, Darrell…nobody said the looters were from out of town, just that they would try to leave town. I have a feeling all the fences for the stolen jewelry and of course any plug in for the looted dvd players, etc are now well out of town and neither is coming back for a long time. Also that little problem of drinkable water, etc that anyone, criminals included, might want to have would also involve leaving town.

    Remember the city is being evacuated, that means when the powers that be think everyone is gone, then there won’t be anymore supplies, like water, will be coming in.

  90. 90
    Darrell says:

    Darrell, Darrell, Darrell…nobody said the looters were from out of town

    Right here:

    The criminal looter’s can’t even get out of the city right now.

    capelza wrote:

    I have a feeling all the fences for the stolen jewelry and of course any plug in for the looted dvd players, etc are now well out of town

    Well that settles it then. The fences have left for good and the looters couldn’t possibly keep any of that stolen jewelry and tv’s at their own house. Everybody knows that

  91. 91
    Darrell says:

    Power to the people.

    “To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it’s an opportunity to get back at society,” he said.

    yeah man, rise up against those mini-marts, liquor stores, and beignet storefronts that have been oppressing you all these years.

    Let the good times roll, baby

  92. 92
    ppGaz says:

    Darrell, I realize that you can’t tell everything by watching tv. But I’m sitting here watching hordes of desperate, exhausted people who think they are abandoned on Mars. I see sick people, babies, old ladies with Alzheimers, a woman about to give birth on a highway overpass. Nobody comes to help them, they have no water, no sanitary facilities, no food, no nothing.

    And then I look in here and I see you, barking about looters.

    If I were you, good buddy, I’d let this go. The looting doesn’t matter much, and in some cases, it may help people.

    Ultimately, though, it’s none of your damned business whether these people loot or not.

  93. 93
    Larry says:

    How is it possible that Darrell has not been scooped up, made up, and plopped before a FOX camera?

    Just wondering…..

  94. 94
    Bob says:

    People organize into groups for protection and to advance their own interests, whether we are talking about hunter-gatherer tribes, fat cat businessmen, political organizations, or gangs from the mean streets. Looting as an act is morally equivalent to the deregulation of the S&Ls in the 1980s, thank you GHW Bush. Looting is not as damaging to the society as a whole as the deregulation of the S&Ls has been. Of course, Neil Bush on a golf course after sinking Silverado Savings doesn’t make the good television that a gangsta with a laptop under his arm running down the street does.

    By the way, Blumenthal at Salon talks about the Times-Picayune series on the Bush administration defunding levee reinforcement around New Orleans over the last four years (44% cuts overall, over 80% for the last year). There was also an op-ed in the San Jose Mercury News today by the head of emergency services in Seattle talking about the Bush administration’s destruction of FEMA’s emergency preparedness under the the banner of Homeland Security.

    Disasters happen, and as stupid and morally bankrupt as Bush’s machinations against the existence of global warming are, I don’t think that there is any hard science proving that this hurricane was caused by global warming. But his stupid and morally bankrupt cuts to the nation’s safety net, and that would include fixing levees, should convince any rational person that this administration does not act for the benefit of the people generally, but only for the class of fat cats at the top of the food chain.

    Bush signed tax cuts, people died.

  95. 95
    Darrell says:

    Ultimately, though, it’s none of your damned business whether these people loot or not.

    And there you have it. The leftist viewpoint. None of our “damn business” if small businesses and homes are looted and robbed. It’s how the left really and truly thinks. It’s who they are. If anyone doubts that the left really is scum of the earth, please explain why then the excuses for the looters and the excuses coming from the likes of ppgaz and other leftists instructing us to look the other way. I want to hear these explanations. I say moral bankruptcy, exposing what lowlifes the left truly is.. what say the leftists on this site??

  96. 96
    StupidityRules says:

    Darrell uttered:

    They would be welcomed and appreciated. But the problem is, other countries, other than occasional Canadian aid, never even ask if they can help. Tsunamis devastate Indonesia and Sri Lanka, Americans set up charities, US govt moves into action, navy ship, etc. But when hurricanes rip through Florida, and now LA & MS, are there any foreign assistance to speak of?? Nope

    I would ask you to put your money where your mouth is and give us any proof about other countries except Canada never asking if they can help. If the US had been snubbed by the rest of the world I would guess that American leaders would have shown that a bit more publically so I’m guessing it wouldn’t be hard to find any proof.

    And about charity, I do hope you don’t equate the US with poor countries like Indonesia and Sri Lanka that can’t economically support their own citizens during a natural catastrophy. India refused help from other countries after the Tsunami since they believe that they are wealthy enough to help themselves, I do hope you believe that the US is wealthy enough?

    I never heard of Japan or most countries in Europe asking for money after they have been struck by a catastropy. What usually is asked for is help with finding and resucing trapped people, since you can’t never get enough of people trained in this kind of work.

  97. 97
    scs says:

    I did hear that Chirac did say something like, France will give aid, if it is ASKED. I heard that Germany offered “solidarity”. Solidarity does not readily convert to Euros I’m guessing.

  98. 98
    scs says:

    I hate to say it, but the images of gangs of armed black looters on TV is certainly not doing much good PR for this country. Still I think I have some sympathy for it. I read an article once in the NYT that showed a study on American Indian tribes somewhere, I think upstate New York. Anyway, half the tribe opened a casino, and made a huge amount of money that it distributed to their people. The other half of the tribe didn’t open a casino and didn’t get any money for some reason, I think they were over the state line or something. Before the casinos opened, the two halfs of the tribe had similar statistics on crime and highschool dropouts, drug use, etc. After maybe 15 years after the casino opened, the tribe with the money had vastly improved stats on juvenile deliquency, petty crime, less highschool dropouts, etc. Sociologists theorized that kids who grew up with their own property, had to mow lawns, take care of family cars, understood how much upkeep having property was and appreciated it more so that they took care of it and respected other’s property as well. It seems many poor in New Orleans didn’t have the opportunity to learn that lesson.

  99. 99
    StupidityRules says:

    scs, so you believe that America is so poor that it can’t even take care of itself? So poor it has to ask other countries for money? I thought the US was the last remaining super power. Obviously you seem to differ.

    Actually you can’t send help to a country unless it asks for it. France can’t send people to help searching for survivors without a request from the US. Foreign aid workers can’t work in another country without being allowed.

    As I stated earlier India refused help after the tsunami last year. You can’t force help on countries. Other countries asked for help and they were helped.

    If the US asks other countries to send people to help find survivors or to help with the rebuilding than I would be very suprised if other countries would refuse. If the US asked for money, I would be very suprised if other countries would deny their request.

    But I would guess that hell will freeze over before a request for money will be made. And while I would hope that there will be a request to help find survivors (the more people searching the better) I’m guessing pride will stop such a request.

  100. 100
    scs says:

    Wrong dude. I agree that “Actually you can’t send help to a country unless it asks for it.” Of course you can’t SEND help unless it is asked for, but you sure can OFFER to send help, whether it is asked for or not. The US does it all the time. I remember many times when the US offered help that wasn’t asked for. For instance, every time Iran had an earthquake, we offer them help, even though they always refuse. I’m sure if some country in Europe had some big disaster, which they don’t much, due to their milder climate in general, we would offer help to them as well. Will anyone offer at least a token amount of help to the US even though we’ve helped so many in the past? No. Do we even need it or want it? Not really. Its just an interesting observation on the rest of the world.

  101. 101
    StupidityRules says:

    Of course you can’t SEND help unless it is asked for, but you sure can OFFER to send help, whether it is asked for or not.

    I did hear that Chirac did say something like, France will give aid, if it is ASKED.

    Unless you are playing the semantics game (and if so, then you really should give me a real quote from Chirac) what’s that if not OFFERING help?

    And the US airlifted supplies to Iran in 2003 after an earthquake, so you’re wrong about Iran always refusing. They still did refuse help from Israel if I’m not remembering wrong.

    True, natural disasters in Europe, except for Turkey, rarely are big, still if a large disaster happened I would guess that the country would be able to cope with it moneywise or the EU would help.

    People who complain about the US never getting any aid are usually those who thinks that the US shouldn’t give aid to other countries. Not saying that you hold that belief too, but generally that’s the case.

  102. 102
    scs says:

    Well I heard a second hand quote from Chirac. But the difference is, he said “if asked”. That’s kind of a weasely backwards rejection of help because he knows the US would never “ask” for help. Okay, I forgot, maybe Iran did accept the help the last time, for the first time, but the point was, that the US ‘offered’ without being asked. Also your point about Europe having enough money. Their economies are shakier then ours. I’d like to see how much money they would have if they experienced some large disaster. And I think we should give some foreign aid, but only if some spirit of it is returned, if not the same amount. I’m not a proponent of huge amounts of foreign aid, because each country should be responsible for itself. And as the pictures of New Orleans show, America, in a scale unlike Europe, has a large segment of poverty to care for in our own country.

  103. 103
    StupidityRules says:

    Scs, you’re basing your critique on a second hand quote? I’m guessing the place were you read it aren’t very pro France… So just because the everybody knows US is going to say no, it’s not a real offer? And you are still unable to find a real quote.

    The EU would be able to handle it, large disasters will not be easy to cope with, but people will sacrifice to help others.

    You give aid to POOR countries, not RICH countries whether they are the US, Germany, France, Japan, Denmark or Australia. And you don’t expect them to give something back. This is about being humane.

  104. 104
    scs says:

    I casually heard it on TV said by Brit Hume on Fox News. Okay, he’s anti-French, true, but I doubt he made it up. Its too early for me to look up something on the net for an exact quote. Feel free to look it up yourself if you want the actual words. And yes, if true how he said it, I still think its not a real offer.

    But I guess, you have a point about not giving to rich countries. Ordinarily I agree. But I think under extraordinary sugesstions, I think rich countries should maybe give some aid to other rich countries. Food and supplies, search teams, if not money. What would be so wrong about that? It couldn’t hurt. As someone pointed out in another segment here, Canada just offered us food and supplies. . After all, the even rich countries aren’t THAT rich. Every rich country still has lots of poor people in them.

  105. 105
    scs says:

    sorry – not extraordinary suggestions (above) – extraordinary situations I mean

  106. 106
    StupidityRules says:

    Scs, so poor Americans should depend on donations from foreign countries? The US is a rich country and as such should be able to help even their poor citizens. You really are cold hearted, aren’t you?

    I recall you writing in some other thread about the looting being bad PR for the US. The US being unable to help their poor will be really bad PR.

    You heard it from Brit Hume, that kills the quote. And since you are basing your bashing of other countries on that quote, then you should be able to find it. It’s not my task.

    So to sum your beliefs, other countries know that the US won’t accept any offers of aid and the only reason other countries do offer aid is to look better. Based on your view (which I don’t agree with) why should other countries offer help before being asked?

    I have stated that you can’t get enough search teams after a disaster. For some reason Homeland security are refusing specilized Canadian urban S&R teams to enter the US…

  107. 107
    Darrell says:

    Based on your view (which I don’t agree with) why should other countries offer help before being asked?

    Because it’s the right thing to do. When friends, family or neighbors experience tragedy, you don’t wait to be asked to help.

    You heard it from Brit Hume, that kills the quote

    He’s one of the most experienced, well regarded journalists in the business.. How open minded of you. You have revealed yourself to be nothing but another closed minded leftist

  108. 108
    over it says:

    For what it’s worth….hasn’t Homeland Security PREVENTED Canadian Search and Rescue(and other Canadian aid) from entering the country? Makes no sense to me. At all.

  109. 109
    StupidityRules says:

    Darrell said:

    He’s one of the most experienced, well regarded journalists in the business.. How open minded of you. You have revealed yourself to be nothing but another closed minded leftist

    I’m guessing you also believe that Ward Churchill is a hero of the left? It’s tragic when your brain is turning into mush. Hopefully you’ll get treatment real soon.

    Because it’s the right thing to do. When friends, family or neighbors experience tragedy, you don’t wait to be asked to help.

    You should discuss that with Scs, it’s his view, not mine. I’m not going to defend him.

  110. 110
    Darrell says:

    For what it’s worth….hasn’t Homeland Security PREVENTED Canadian Search and Rescue(and other Canadian aid) from entering the country?

    This story was filed less than an hour ago

    Sept. 1 (Bloomberg) — British Columbia, Canada’s westernmost province, sent a search and rescue team to Louisiana to assist recovery efforts after Hurricane Katrina devastated the U.S. Gulf Coast area earlier this week…. Other Canadian provinces, including Ontario and Manitoba, said they are prepared to send electricity repair crews and possibly medical workers, CTV said

    I didn’t read anything about Canadian aid being blocked from entering the US. Do you have more info.?

  111. 111
    StupidityRules says:

    Darrell, the team wasn’t allowed to enter the country, Homeland Security stopped them. Why I don’t know. Hopefully the article you link to is newer and they are now allowed to go to New Orleans. In S&R time is of the essence and the more specialised teams that are able to go and search the better, you shouldn’t turn away this kind of help. (The team in question also helped on 9/11).

  112. 112
    over it says:

    Don’t really have time to search in depth….but this is what I found quickly. Appears as though Homeland Security has not flatly DENIED entry…they just have not given PERMISSION. I doubt that the people in NOLA care what the reason is though.

    Here is a Canadian news clip:

    Video clip

    Here is a short article on help offered…yet not yet accepted:

    Help offered

    So, it looks as though the rest of the world is ready to help…and has offered to help…but help has yet to be accepted. Not saying that it will not eventually be accepted….just that it has not yet. A shame.

  113. 113
    over it says:

    Russian help turned down.

    Chavez/Venezuela gives 1 million(but also rips into Bush)

    From Germany:

    We Stand By Our American Friends

    German Red Cross click on “Rotkreuz-Großeinsatz in den USA”

    (translation of first line “The dramatic events of the last few days in the USA have resulted in a huge wave of support in Germany for the victims of this hurricane. The German Red Cross asks for donations and will forward them to the American Red Cross.”)

    I am sure that there are many many more sources of global offers of assistance. Countries/people give what they can….we happen to live in the country most capable of helping others. This does not mean that we are the ONLY country willing to help others. To think so displays pure ignorance and ethnocentrism.

  114. 114
    scs says:

    Stupidityrules says

    Scs, so poor Americans should depend on donations from foreign countries? The US is a rich country and as such should be able to help even their poor citizens. You really are cold hearted, aren’t you?

    Well you lost me there, SR. You need to fine tune your reading skills. Nowhere did I say the US should DEPEND on donations. I only said in effect that it would NICE, as fellow human beings, for them to OFFER some help. As I also said before, we don’t really NEED it. It would just be nice, that’s all, as I know the US would offer help to Europe in a bad situations for them. If as, OVERIT says, the other countries did offer some help, then I appreciate their gestures.

    And Brit Hume is very conservative,true, but also smart as a whip, and respected by other journalists. Didn’t he also moderate some Presidential debates a while back? If the lefties didn’t respect him too, he wouldn’t have been asked to do so.

  115. 115
    scs says:

    And by the way, how do you know I’m a “him”? I could be a “her”.

  116. 116
    StupidityRules says:

    Scs, to me you’re an it. And read what Over it wrote, other countries have offered to help, and the US has denied their help. But righth now there seems to be alot of problem getting anything to the people in New Orleans.

    Sorry but I don’t share your view of Brit Hume. Also he never was a moderator of Presidental Debate, he was one of the panelists of the 1988 VP Debate. The moderator was Judy Woodruff of PBS. And I would guess his job at ABC was what got him the job more than the left liking him.

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