Robertson’s Fatwah

It appears that Islamist crazies are not the only people who can issue fatwahs:

Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson suggested on-air that American operatives assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to stop his country from becoming ”a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism.”

”We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability,” Robertson said Monday on the Christian Broadcast Network’s ”The 700 Club.”

”We don’t need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator,” he continued. ”It’s a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with.”

Chavez has emerged as one of the most outspoken critics of President Bush, accusing the United States of conspiring to topple his government and possibly backing plots to assassinate him. U.S. officials have called the accusations ridiculous.

”You know, I don’t know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it,” Robertson said. ”It’s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war … and I don’t think any oil shipments will stop.’

Piece of work, this guy Robertson.






179 replies
  1. 1
    yet another jeff says:

    Well, obviously Chavez is being paranoid about plots to assassinate or topple him.

    Geez, and he only prayed for a SCOTUS opening. What’s his problem with Chavez…is he allowing abortion on demand?

  2. 2
    Bob says:

    That’s what they said in Dallas in 1963. You know, easier to assassinate the Prez than to send an invading army, although the army was already there.

  3. 3
    Tim F says:

    Thank god there’s an equivalently-powerful figure on the fringe left to balance things out eh. Otherwise I’d have o lose some of my famous equanimity about the parties being equally nutty. I mean, there must be some hysterical nutcase who met constantly with President Clinton, commands a fanatical army of millions and controls the votes of nearly a third of Congress. Help a guy out here.

  4. 4
    Jim Allen says:

    Hey, lay off the Rev. At least he’s not a librul.

  5. 5
    Tim F says:

    What’s his problem with Chavez

    Religious fundies and John Birchers drink from the same stream.

  6. 6
    Another Jeff says:

    Well, being a moderate Republican, I happen to think Pat Robertson is a fucking creep, but since Tim F wants to be a tool and turn this into “our kooks aren’t as bad as your kooks”, I’ll see you Rev Pat and raise you Rev Al.

  7. 7
    Demdude says:

    When confronted with his “fatwah” by a news organization or outside interviewer, he will say he was “taken out of context”.

    This is what happens when any of the wing nuts gets caught taking crazy.

  8. 8
    LJSTEWART says:

    WHAT HAPPENED TO THOU SHALL NOT KILL?!!!

  9. 9
    Mr Furious says:

    Jeff, Sharpton holds absolutely no sway over anything. That’s hardly a “raise.” Pat Robertson has been a broker for over twenty years, Sharpton has been either a novelty or pariah for much of that time. Only recently has he risen to the level of colorful character/political clown. And even at that, plenty of Dems keep their distance.

  10. 10
    norbizness says:

    And then there’s this:

    “Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson accused President Bush of ‘undermining a Christian, Baptist president to bring in Muslim rebels’ by asking Liberian President Charles Taylor, recently indicted for war crimes, to step down.”

    Start developing a diamond or gold-mining enterprise, Chavez, and you’ll be safe from our televangelists.

  11. 11
    Another Jeff says:

    “Plenty of Dems keep their distance.”

    Let’s see, Hillary Clinton met with him when running for Senate, Al Gore met with him when running for President, Bill Bradley also met with him while running for President, he had a prime-time speaking slot at the Democratic convention, not one other Democrat in the primaries, despite standing on stage with him ten times, EVER had the balls to call him on his racist, anti-Semitic, riot-inciting past because they were scared of offending his constituency.

    Yeah, he’s a nobody.

  12. 12
    Nate says:

    Well, being a moderate Republican, I happen to think Pat Robertson is a fucking creep, but since Tim F wants to be a tool and turn this into “our kooks aren’t as bad as your kooks”, I’ll see you Rev Pat and raise you Rev Al.

    Yeah, Another Jeff, *real* moderate, comparing a hateful, powerful preacher who publicly prays for people to die or be killed with Al Sharpton. Call yourself as you are: a wingnut.

  13. 13
    Anderson says:

    AJ has a point about Sharpton; the Dems haven’t dared to kick him to the curb as he deserves.

    Nevertheless, Robertson’s a much more influential figure.

  14. 14
    Another Jeff says:

    Ah, little Nathan, you’re making this too easy.

    The guy who led protests at Freddy’s Fashion Mart against “white interlopers” that led to eight people being murdered (and the murderer was a Sharpton ally) is harmless.

    And I’m the “wing-nut”? Pot, meet kettle.

  15. 15
    Mr Furious says:

    I’m not saying Sharpton’s a good guy. I lived in NY during the whole Brawley mess. It was a disgrace. One could argue Al and Pat might be equivilent in repulsive qualities, but nowhere close in terms of stature…

    Sharpton was probably even worse than Robertson at one time, but that was as a local rabble-rouser. He has rehabbed his image and rhetoric significantly since then. Robertson comes out with this bullshit to this day.

    That said, “work” is not the “piece” I’d use to describe either.

  16. 16
    Tim F says:

    Sharpton’s presidential campaign was managed by Republicans. Surely you can do better than that.

  17. 17
    Another Jeff says:

    “Sharpton’s presidential campaign was managed by Republicans. Surely you can do better than that.”

    So, it was Republicans that made Hillary, Gore, and Bradley meet with him? It was Republicans that gave him a prime speaking slot at the Democratic convention? It was Republicans that stood on stage with him and never called him on his past?

    You’re the one that needs to do better.

  18. 18
    Halffasthero says:

    I like this – Robertson makes a public announcement condoning the assasination of a sitting President of another country on a national television forum and this becomes, somehow, a comparison between Sharpton and Robertson. Show me where Sharpton did anything on this scale of stupidity and I will consider the topic worth discussing.

  19. 19
    TallDave says:

    Yeah, that’s pretty nutty by Robertson, but he’s pretty nutty anyway.

    Looking at the merits of his idea, I have to say it stinks from that perpective too. Our track record on assassinations/coups is not good.

    We should just fund some pro-democracy groups, stop certifying fraudulent elections like we did last time, and let the Venezuelans solve this problem.

  20. 20
    SomeCallMeTim says:

    Sharpton ran in the primaries and got very little of the black vote (compare his totals with Jackson’s). His power is minimal, and seems larger by the dearth of black leaders. He’s never called for the assassination of anyone, AFAIK. He’s never called for the assassination of a head of state, AFAIK. And he gets called out all of the time by liberal columnists (too much in my opinion). Moreover, let’s be the least bit honest here: there is a substantially lower probability of a crazy black man influencing this government (or a Dem government) than of a crazy white man influencing this government (or a Dem government).

    Sharpton has been pretty slimy, but Robertson is scary.

  21. 21
    TallDave says:

    I think Farrakhan would be a better comparison. Roberston not runnign for any office afaik.

    There’s religious nuts everywhere.

  22. 22
    Tim F says:

    Jeff, you’ve demonstrated that nobody bothered destroying Sharpton. One hopes you know that is not the same thing thing as controlling vast levers of power. Once you’ve shown that we can move along to whether he’s said anything remostely as disgraceful as calling for a foreign leader’s assassination or blaming New Yorkers’ sinfulness for September 11.

  23. 23
    norbizness says:

    By the way, Sharpton Sharpton Sharpton Sharpton.

  24. 24
    Tim F says:

    I think Farrakhan would be a better comparison.

    Much better! Farrakhan has a rabid following and a history of genuinely incendiary rhetoric. It’s a wonder that his breath doesn’t set his shirt on fire. Now, just as a rough guess how many congressional votes would one guess that Farrakhan controls? I’ll open with a bid of one, with two as an outside possibility.

  25. 25
    TallDave says:

    Well, since Muslims are a very small percentage of American voters I would say probably zero.

  26. 26
    Nate says:

    Ah, little Nathan, you’re making this too easy.

    The guy who led protests at Freddy’s Fashion Mart against “white interlopers” that led to eight people being murdered (and the murderer was a Sharpton ally) is harmless.

    And I’m the “wing-nut”? Pot, meet kettle.

    Ooooh, you got me there. Yeah, I’m really a hardcore…wingnut.

    Your odious comparison is indefensible and you know it. Robertson also came out after the 9/11 attacks and blamed them on secular humanism and gays. But perhaps you believe that?

    Spin, wingnut, spin!

  27. 27
    linda says:

    re sharpton — actually, you all need to go back and see who was oh so helpful in resuscitating rev al’s career. al was discredited in ny and floundering until he was rescued by his pals in the conservative media who were looking for a stereotype to hawk as a national leader in the black community. sharpton didn’t have that kind of support until it was ‘bestowed’ upon him by the chatterboxes on tv. they legitimized him and gave him the exposure he needed to go national. and when 2004 rolled around, roger stone was there to assist with the fundraising and advice.

    oh yeah, provide the link where al calls for the assassination of anybody.

  28. 28
    Peter T. says:

    Robertson is a much more powerful figure than Sharpton. The Christian Coalition, which Robertson founded, claims to have 1.2M members. His 700 Club TV show gives him regular access to a large TV audience. Sharpton has nothing remotely comparable.

    Pat Robertson’s first name is actually Marion, fyi.

  29. 29
    Tim F says:

    Thank you TallDave. I would also ask what exactly makes Farrakhan on the ‘left,’ besides being black. He looks to me more like the intolerant religious right, only a different religion.

  30. 30
    ppGaz says:

    I’ll see you Rev Pat and raise you Rev Al.

    I call.

    Robertson’s Gold

    What, pray tell, does the Good Lord make of Pat Robertson’s gold-mining venture in Liberia with Charles Taylor, international pariah and one of the most ruthless, greedy and terror-producing heads of state in all of sub-Saharan Africa?

    What? He didn’t know?

    Well it probably slipped Robertson’s mind, busy as he is in getting people to send in those checks, money orders and love offerings to support his cause. How the reverend found time to hook up with Taylor, I’ll never know.

    But in May 1999, Robertson, through Freedom Gold Limited, an offshore company registered in the Cayman Islands but based at CBN headquarters in Virginia Beach, signed an agreement with Taylor and key cabinet members allowing the for-profit Freedom Gold to explore and receive mining rights in southeastern Liberia, where gold is believed to be in the ground

    .

  31. 31
    John S. says:

    Well, since Muslims are a very small percentage of American voters I would say probably zero.

    Yeah, who cares what 6 million people think in this country?

    Write them off – that’s the Jeffersonian Democratic way!

    And while we’re at it, let’s write off all the Jewish voters, too, since they only comprise about as many voters as the Muslims do.

    Sarcasm off.

  32. 32
    Tim F says:

    This flame war served an important point. There are fringe nutters on the left, and there are people who matter and control the levers of power on the left, but they are practicaly never the same person.

    Why is it that every Republican who wants to win the POTUS nomination has to pay respects at Bob Jones University? They can skip it of course, and lose. Why does everybody see that Frist is playing to the Presidential race when he does something stupid like diagnose Terry Schiavo by TV or trumpet creationism? Republicans who claim to be ‘moderate’ today are living in a fantasy land where they still matter.

    How do you recognize a Democratic hopeful? They’re talking about ethanol. That issue perennially imoprtant to Iowans and practically nobody else.

    The point of this flamewar is to underline why it matters when Pat Robertson says something stupid, but when Al Sharpton or Farrakhan says something stupid it doesn’t. Robertson or Falwell could pick up the phone tomorrow and an obscure education bill will pick up fifty co-sponsors. Can Al Sharpton do that? No. Can Micahel Moore? He supported Nader in 2000. A complete loose cannon. Box office sales got him a seat at the Convention but that bought nobody’s trust or loyalty. Farrakhan might as well be made of Plutonium wrapped in sweaty dynamite.

    That’s not to say of course that the Democratic party doesn’t have problems that I’d need a dozen hands to count. Only that people need to recognize that the religious dominionists that they consider ‘fringe’ waged an organized war for the soul of one of our parties, and won.

  33. 33

    Losing my faith

    Mu already commented on the Pat Robertson…

  34. 34
    Geek, Esq. says:

    Where does the Bible teach that murder of democratically elected leaders is okay if it ensures cheap oil?

    I’m not a Chavez fan, and worry that he could lapse into Fidelity, but jeebus.

  35. 35
    Dave Ruddell says:

    I’m not a Chavez fan, and worry that he could lapse into Fidelity, but jeebus.

    You know, it took me a good minute to get what you meant by ‘Fidelity’. That’s actually a pretty good expression.

    Now if only Robertson would call for the assassination of Mugabe, I could get behind that. Of course, he doesn’t seem to have too many problems with Africa dictators.

  36. 36
    Tim F says:

    A little reminder that Robertson’s had problems with the sixth commandment before.

  37. 37
    Darrell says:

    Chavez recently bought $539,000 euros worth of chemical riot control agents and radioactive materials along with another $509,000 euros of water canons (to encourage free speech ??), grenades and other misc. goodies from our “ally” Spain. People need to wake up to the fact that Chavez is looking like he could a dangerous nut. Wasn’t there a Harvard/MIT study showing that Chavez stole the last election? electronic voting machines there with no paper trail and no examination of the source code, yet super-Dem Jimmah Carter certified it

  38. 38
    ppGaz says:

    I’ll see you Rev Pat and raise you Rev Al.

    I bump.

    Meet Pat

    Robertson swears he will keep bank commerce, Christianity and the Coalition completely separate. But our look into the Robertson empire, including interviews with his former and current business associates, reveals a history of mixing God, gain and Republican campaign.

    The combination of ministry and Mammon has provided Robertson with a net worth estimated at between $200m and $1 billion. He himself would not confirm his wealth, except to tell me that his share of the reported $50m start-up capital for the bank is ‘just a small investment for me’.

    Neil Volder, president of Robertson Financial and director of the new bank venture, emphasises that Robertson selflessly donated between 65 and 75 per cent of his salary as head of International Family Entertainment. But that amounted to only a few hundred thousand dollars a year – pocket change for a man of Robertson’s means.

    There was also, says Volder, the $7m he gave to ‘Operation Blessing’ to alleviate the woes of refugees fleeing genocide in Rwanda. Robertson’s press operation puts the sum at only $1.2m. More interesting is the way the Operation Blessing funds were used in Africa. Through an emotional fundraising drive on his TV station, Robertson raised several million dollars for the tax-free charitable trust. Operation Blessing bought planes to shuttle medical supplies in and out of the refugee camp in Goma, Congo (then Zaire).

    But investigative reporter Bill Sizemore of the Virginian Pilot discovered that over a six-month period – except for one medical flight – the planes were used to haul equipment for something called African Development Corporation, a diamond mining operation a long way from Goma. African Development is owned by Pat Robertson.

  39. 39
    Darrell says:

    Can Micahel Moore?

    Michael Moore was given a seat in the Presidential box next to Carter at the Democrat convention. He also hosted a special screening of Fahrenheit 911 attended by Dem Senators, congressmen and the head of the DNC. Democrats EMBRACED AND ENDORSED Michael Moore no matter how you slice it. thank god they did, revealing to the moderates how far left they’ve moved

    Oh and remind me, was Robertson given a speaking slot at the last Repub convention?

  40. 40
    Tim F says:

    was Robertson given a speaking slot at the last Repub convention?

    Was Moore?

  41. 41
    Demdude says:

    Oh and remind me, was Robertson given a speaking slot at the last Repub convention?

    Since he scared the daylights out of everyone the last time he spoke, they kept him and the rest of the crazies off of primetime.

  42. 42
    ppGaz says:

    God Talks to Pat?

    Robertson told viewers: “I think George Bush is going to win in a walk. I really believe that I’m hearing from the Lord it’s going to be like a blowout election of 2004.

    It’s shaping up that way. The Lord has just blessed him. . . . It doesn’t make any difference what he does, good or bad. God picks him up because he’s a man of prayer and God’s blessing him.”

    Unfortunately for Bush supporters, that pronouncement will give little comfort if they consider some of the previous messages Robertson claimed to receive from God. If Robertson were to lie down on a psychiatrist’s couch and talk about these messages that only he hears, he would have much to say.

    Robertson’s dialogues with God go back at least to the 1960s, during the early days of his ministry. According to his book Shout It from the Housetops, he was considering whether to buy a particular television station for the ministry when God told him: “Go and possess the station. It is yours.” And to get a radio station up and running, Robertson considered buying the cheapest transmitter available. God had other ideas, though, and divulged, “Pat, I want you to have an RCA transmitter.”

  43. 43
    Tim F says:

    After Robertson and Falwell blamed New Yorkers’ sinfulness for the destruction of the World Trade Center their chances of getting a speaking role at the RNC convention in New York would seem rather small. Never mind that they meet with the President on a weekly basis. Maybe they’re sharing recipes.

  44. 44
    ape says:

    this post reminds me of the tom tomorrow cartoon about Jeffrey Dahmer.

    http://www.workingforchange.co.....emid=19125

    there really is no comparison between PR and anyone ‘on the left’. None of them has anything like the combined credentials of being nuts, influential, & (frankly) representing mainstream views most of the time.

    wasn’t it estimated that over a third of Republican State committees had a majority of conservative christianists affiliated to the christian coalition?

    (http://www.thevanguard.org/the.....0920.shtml)

    not only do the awnings of the republican’s ‘big tent’ extend far, but the pegs are driven deep.

    maybe this is all wrong. (here is a lower estimate: http://www.aaiusa.org/wwatch_archives/071894.htm) but how many democrat states are controlled by Al Sharpton? as many or fewer than Miss Piggy?

    and why the hell is al sharpton as bad as robertson anyway? (quick: whose agenda wd you like to see in place? the rapture’s not for me, thanks.)

    limbaugh has a whole range of clothing & accessories celebrating the US military’s torture excesses. I have not even seen this raise any comment.

  45. 45
    Darrell says:

    After Robertson and Falwell blamed New Yorkers’ sinfulness for the destruction of the World Trade Center their chances of getting a speaking role at the RNC convention in New York would seem rather small. Never mind that they meet with the President on a weekly basis. Maybe they’re sharing recipes.

    Specifically Robertson and Falwell meet with the President on a weekly basis? ..do you have, you know, evidence of this?

  46. 46
    ppGaz says:

    Michael Moore was

    The thread title points to Pat Robertson, Darrell.

    Do you have anything to say about Pat Robertson? Or are you just going to turn this into yet another useless Darrell Thread?

  47. 47
    ape says:

    Chavez not democratically elected?

    What about the Emir of Kuwait, so lovingly restored?

    Pinochet, for whom the US murdered?

    Mobutu, supported with huge lumps of cash?

    Karimov (the Uzbekikitty)?

    it’s this kind of thing that breeds unrest. the American people really believe that the US Government promotes democracy (why wouldn’t they?). yet there are many in the world whose experience teaches them otherwise.

  48. 48
    Tim F says:

    NYTimes

    The White House can call on a broad array of conservative groups that come at the issue from perspectives like opposing abortion and gay marriage, as well as legal theory. The participants in the weekly meetings include representatives of Focus on the Family, the powerful Christian advocacy group run by Dr. James C. Dobson, and the Federalist Society, the influential conservative legal group.

    This is in reference to judicial policy. Grover Norquist, joined at the hip with Karl Rove, also runs weekly strategy sessions with Christian activist leaders. Thirty seconds’ googling. God forbid Darrell would ever go to such lengths to defend one of his posts.

  49. 49
    ape says:

    who mentioned Michael Moore?

    ha ha.

    like THOSE views really make Pat Robertson’s pale!

    tom tomorrow again:

    http://www.workingforchange.co.....emid=18985

    ann coulter believes that nothing that US troops do should be illegal if Andrew Sullivan has done it voluntarily (he’s GAY you know!) http://oneampfuse.blogspot.com.....-nuts.html

  50. 50
    Darrell says:

    Pinochet, for whom the US murdered?

    He killed himself. but don’t let that fact stop your tantrum… blather on

  51. 51
    Darrell says:

    Tim F, you made the claim that Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell meet with Bush every week. Given your lack of evidence, is it safe to assume that you lied your ass off about that?

  52. 52
    Peter T. says:

    I say, if Chavez does anything like try and put Venezuela under Islamic law, we should bounce him.

  53. 53
    Tim F says:

    Yes Darrell, I had recalled Falwell as Dobson. That really kills my point doesn’t it. I mean Dobson and Falwell have nothing in common. Nosir. Nothing at all.

  54. 54
    Darrell says:

    Personally, I cut Pat Robertson slack because his ministry does so much wonderful work feeding and caring for the poor worldwide. They organize medical procedures for patients in countries that otherwise would not have access to such treatment, assistence to those who suffered natural disasters, and a lot more. All things considered, Pat Robertson is quite a person.

    Anything equivalent to what Robertson has done by Al Sharpton.. any such thing to mitigate Sharpton’s fraud and racism? “We welcome Al Sharpton to speak at the Democratic National Convention”

  55. 55
    Darrell says:

    Yes Darrell, I had recalled Falwell as Dobson. That really kills my point doesn’t it. I mean Dobson and Falwell have nothing in common. Nosir. Nothing at all.

    I believe your lie was worse than that Tim. Your link doesn’t show much as it goes to a $$ for archive site. My recollection is that there is a rotation of religious leaders, not just Dobson, and unlike your claim, they do not meet every week with Bush himself, but with some aide to Bush. Quite a difference, wouldn’t you say?

  56. 56
    ape says:

    Darrell – who ‘killed himself’?

    Pinochet? I don’t think so.

    Schneider? from the CIA’s own report:

    “Under “Track II” of the strategy, CIA sought to instigate a coup to prevent Allende from taking office after he won a plurality in the 4 September election and before, as Constitutionally required because he did not win an absolute majority, the Chilean Congress reaffirmed his victory. CIA was working with three different groups of plotters. All three groups made it clear that any coup would require the kidnapping of Army Commander Rene Schneider, who felt deeply that the Constitution required that the Army allow Allende to assume power. CIA agreed with that assessment. Although CIA provided weapons to one of the groups, we have found no information that the plotters’ or CIA’s intention was for the general to be killed.”

    honest m’lud.

    and that’s the organisation’s own version!

    your government, in your name: for a man who trained dogs to rape ‘lefties’ (ie, university students who favoured democracy). http://www.trentu.ca/~mneumann/pinochet.html

  57. 57
    Tim F says:

    We welcome Al Sharpton to speak at the Democratic National Convention

    Maybe that’s because Sharpton was a candidate for president. You know, like the fringe nutball Gary Bauer.

  58. 58
    Tim F says:

    they do not meet every week with Bush himself, but with some aide to Bush.

    Try and remember what the point was before you try to refurte it, Darrel dear. To wit, fringe fundies swing tremendous pull in the Republican party. If you’re willing to confirm that they do indeed meet with the White House on a weekly basis then I think that we’re pretty much agreed.

  59. 59
    Darrell says:

    Maybe that’s because Sharpton was a candidate for president. You know, like the fringe nutball Gary Bauer.

    Speaking of fringe nutcases, wasn’t Dennis Kucinich a speaker at the Dem convention too along with Al Sharpton? All that, with Michael Moore given special prominence in the Presidential booth at the DNC complete with personal welcome from Jimmy Carter.

  60. 60
    Darrell says:

    ape, sorry, I meant to say Allende killed himself.

  61. 61
    Darrell says:

    “Under “Track II” of the strategy, CIA sought to instigate a coup to prevent Allende from taking office after he won a plurality in the 4 September election

    Allende won with something like 36% of the vote in a three-way divided election. He then proceeded to run the country into the ground with 500%+ inflation, confiscating factories and land using armed thugs ala Robert Mugabe, and undermining the judiciary with parallel courts established by him, to the point where the Chilean Supreme Court and Chilean Senate issued orders to Pinochet to replace him as he was running amok. Even leftist historians concede that it was NOT the CIA who toppled Allende, but the Chilean people backed by their Senate and Supreme court.

    The CIA was active in Chile, but only to try and thwart the thousands of Cuban and Soviet spies whom Allende had invited to the country. Sorry to pop your bubble

  62. 62
    Vladi G says:

    I think it’s hilarious that Darrell the Serial Liar actually has the gall to call anyone else out on the slightest innacuracies. Projection, it’s not just for movie theaters anymore.

  63. 63
    Peter T. says:

    Darrell, like so much of what you write, your assessment of who constitutes a ‘fringe nutcase’ is generally accepted only in the space between your ears. Michael Moore is a leftist, a bitter critic of Bush and a filmmaker whose films have received critical acclaim and been seen by millions. I see no need to be embarrassed by Moore’s presence at the Dem’s convention. I haven’t seen anything in your posts that lay claim to your ability to judge what constitutes political moderation in 2005 America. In fact, with your ramblings about jets buried in the sand along with poison gas, or whatever, there are those who might argue you constitute a fringe nutcase.

  64. 64
    Tim F says:

    wasn’t Dennis Kucinich a speaker at the Dem convention too

    Funny how that works. You would almost think that Kucinich also ran for persident in 2004.

  65. 65
    Call_of_the_Right_Wingnuts says:

    Instead of condemning Robertson all the pathetic Conservatives do is yell “Al Sharpton”? Lame. You conservatives are spinning alright. Spinning down the drain where you belong.

  66. 66
    ape says:

    Well Darrell. let’s not argue about your claim about the level of CIA/ US involvement in the coup. who cares. we’re agreed which side they were on.

    But the result? FASCIST TORTURE SQUADS: good or bad?

    this is the relevant point today when it seems acceptable amongst mainstream republicans to argue for the overthrow of Chavez. such people need advanced degrees in tortuous reasoning to imagine that they stand for democracy.

    nothing about ‘believing in democracy’ implies ‘all democratic leaders get everything right & make economic decisions you agree with’ but it does imply, “dont support coups by fascist military dictatorships upheld by mass torture & murder”.

    the failure to observe this fine distinction brings the US into disrepute in parts of the world where they’ve felt the sharp end. taking such action against chavez would be simply catastrophic.

  67. 67
    Darrell says:

    Uh Peter, D. Kucinich actually proposed the creation of a Department of Peace. If you don’t consider that fringe thinking, that’s because you’re so far left Kucinich views to you seem mainstream

  68. 68
    Darrell says:

    But the result? FASCIST TORTURE SQUADS: good or bad?

    The question is, all things considered, what would have been better for the people of Chile. I think history demonstrates that Pinochet, as detestable as he was, was demonstrably better than Allende. The Chilean people, chilean Senate and Supreme court at that time all agreed

    Since you seem so concerned with torture and murder, I assume you supported the toppling of Saddam Hussein the bloodiest living dictator on earth??

  69. 69
    Mr Furious says:

    Gee, and he might even be a successful and popular politician in his district too.

  70. 70
    Darrell says:

    Gee, and he might even be a successful and popular politician in his district too.

    And Cynthia McKinney and Maxine Walters are popular in their districts too? So what’s your point?

  71. 71
    Nate says:

    The question is, all things considered, what would have been better for the people of Chile. I think history demonstrates that Pinochet, as detestable as he was, was demonstrably better than Allende. The Chilean people, chilean Senate and Supreme court at that time all agreed

    Darrell, you are one sick and twisted piece of fuck. But we all knew that…

  72. 72
    ape says:

    ha ha Darrell – it depends what Saddam would be replaced by.

    i note that the country next door is an islamist theocracy that invented and supports ‘suicide martyrs’.

    the prince of cambodia was replaced by the Khmer Rouge after US intervention. from bad to worse.

    it also depends on the opportunity cost:

    i’ve been saying for some time the US & the UK should (have) interve(ned) in Sudan. (the regime ACTUALLY supported OBL/AQ in a meaningful way, rather than Donald ‘invisible submarines’ Rumsfeld’s hallucinatory crew having imagined that it did.)

    when these decisions are made, you have to have some reason for thinking you can make things better (unless you’re henry kissinger of course).

    ‘saddam hussein/ chavez/ allende is very bad’ does not cut it.

  73. 73
    ape says:

    Nate – oh. did everybody know that.

    sorry. i was late in.

  74. 74
    Darrell says:

    ape, your answer was muddled. I’ll ask the question once more – Since you claim to be soooo concerned about torture and murder, did you, or did you not support the toppling of Saddam Hussein?

  75. 75
    Peter T. says:

    Uh Darrell, did my post mention Dennis Kucinich? Actually, it didn’t. But just to show I’m a nice guy, I’ll pretend it did. Is Kucinich a fringe candidate? The number of votes he received would suggest so. Do his views embarrass me? Not really. It’s not like he publicly called for the US government to assassinate the elected leader of a foreign country. Now that’s embarrassing.

  76. 76
    Darrell says:

    Nate wrote:

    Darrell, you are one sick and twisted piece of fuck.

    The thoughtful deep thinkers of the left. This is all they have

  77. 77
    Vladi G says:

    The thoughtful deep thinkers of the left. This is all they have.

    That’s not quite all. You’re also a serial liar.

  78. 78
    ape says:

    Did i or did i not support the toppling of saddam hussein?

    yes of course i did.

    Did i or did i not think that the best way of doing this was to (a) support him for years (b) make up a link/ string of insinuations linking him with 9/11; (c) alienate allies that had fought beside you before (d) insist it be done NOW!! no matter what other concurrent priorities there were and (c) have no idea what was going to happen next, well know.

    i fully confess to being an agnostic on the Iraq war. of course it had a major benefit (removal of Baathists). but this does not mean it was the correct move. it was a voluntary war. i think the rule of thumb should be ‘necessary wars only’; such as the treaty-obliged war against the Sudanese genocide we’re not waging whilst the chinese government counts its blood-stained barrels.

  79. 79
    Darrell says:

    Vladi G wrote:

    That’s not quite all. You’re also a serial liar.

    Confirmation of my previous post

  80. 80
    Otto Man says:

    Al Sharpton has a lot of catching up to do if he’s really going to be the Left’s answer to Pat Robertson.

    First, he’ll need to work on his command over the weather:

    Robertson claims to have used the power of prayer to steer hurricanes away from his Virginia Beach, Virginia headquarters. He took credit for steering the course in 1985 of Hurricane Gloria, which caused millions of dollars of destruction in many states along the east coast. He made a similar claim about another destructive storm, Hurricane Felix, in 1995.

    Second, he’ll need to sharpen his insights into global affairs, as seen by the comments he and Falwell made about 9/11:

    JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I’ll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way–all of them who have tried to secularize America–I point the finger in their face and say “you helped this happen.”

    PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we’re responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system.

    JERRY FALWELL: Pat, did you notice yesterday the ACLU, and all the Christ-haters, People For the American Way, NOW, etc. were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress as they went out on the steps and called out on to God in prayer and sang “God Bless America” and said “let the ACLU be hanged”? In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time–calling upon God.

    PAT ROBERTSON: Amen

    Third, he’ll need to spend some time soul-searching to figure out what’s truly threatening America these days:

    Federal judges are a more serious threat to America than Al Qaeda and the Sept. 11 terrorists, the Rev. Pat Robertson claimed yesterday. “Over 100 years, I think the gradual erosion of the consensus that’s held our country together is probably more serious than a few bearded terrorists who fly into buildings,” Robertson said on ABC’s “This Week with George Stephanopoulos.”

    “I think we have controlled Al Qaeda,” the 700 Club host said, but warned of “erosion at home” and said judges were creating a “tyranny of oligarchy.”

    Confronted by Stephanopoulos on his claims that an out-of-control liberal judiciary is the worst threat America has faced in 400 years – worse than Nazi Germany, Japan and the Civil War – Robertson didn’t back down.

    “Yes, I really believe that,” he said. “I think they are destroying the fabric that holds our nation together.”

    Once Sharpton is out there calling for the assassination of other country’s leaders because they won’t give us oil, blaming 9/11 on gays and the ACLU, claiming our own courts are a worse threat than al-Qaeda, and exercising the latest in faith-based metereology, well then we can equate the two. But for the time being, the contest isn’t even close.

  81. 81
    Jim Allen says:

    Re: [Darrell] “The thoughtful deep thinkers of the left. This is all they have”

    Yep, the truth — that’s all we have.

  82. 82
    Tim F says:

    Fighting a losing battle against reality, Darrel squirts a cloud of ink and jets away.

    “look, Saddam!”

  83. 83
    SeesThroughIt says:

    WHAT HAPPENED TO THOU SHALL NOT KILL?

    It always gets trumped by the much more important question: Who would Jesus assassinate?

    In this instance, I hope Jesus would do the world a favor and take out Pat Robertson.

    By the way, Darrell, do you enjoy being everyone’s rhetorical pinata, or is it just your inescapable role?

  84. 84
    Otto Man says:

    Speaking of fringe nutcases, wasn’t Dennis Kucinich a speaker at the Dem convention too along with Al Sharpton? All that, with Michael Moore given special prominence in the Presidential booth at the DNC complete with personal welcome from Jimmy Carter.

    You mean the Democrats let presidential candidates speak at their national convention? Of all the nerve! Of all the precedent shattering!

    And wait — a former president invited a documentary filmmaker to sit next to him? The horror, the horror!

    Are the real Republicans coming back soon? Because the current crop gets their panties in a wad over nothing at all.

  85. 85
    gratefulcub says:

    Wow, PR goes on his nationally televised ‘Christian’ show, and says this:

    You know, I don’t know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It’s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war. And I don’t think any oil shipments will stop. But this man is a terrific danger and the United … This is in our sphere of influence, so we can’t let this happen. We have the Monroe Doctrine, we have other doctrines that we have announced. And without question, this is a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil, that could hurt us very badly. We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don’t need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It’s a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with.

    What threat to the US is he talking about. The only reason I see him give is that he has oil, and he doesn’t like us all that much. Since we have more than likely been meddling in Ven’s affairs. Maybe not the CIA, but definitely the private ‘democracy promotions’ groups. The ones that seem more concerned about promoting US business interests than democracy.

    So, Pat tells us that we should assassinate a world leader because he 1)is socialist (the quote I heard on NPR, I heard Pat say it, it wasn’t an evil librul NPR propogandist twisting his words: “We can’t let the communist and terrorists infiltrate America through Ven.”) 2)He is going to stop giving us oil 3)and he is going to let muslim terrorists infiltrate the US through catholic Ven.

    And, after that, we discuss whether or not we should have supported a coup in chile, whether Al Sharpton is as bad as PR, etc.

    Crazy bastard

  86. 86
    Tim F says:

    Why do we assume that DougJ is a put-on while Darrell is real? Discuss.

  87. 87
    jg says:

    But the result? FASCIST TORTURE SQUADS: good or bad?

    Remember, fascist are only in WWII Italy.

  88. 88
    gratefulcub says:

    Darrell is too consistent not to be real

  89. 89
    Tim F says:

    For me it’s the volume level. DougJ puts it out at a level that makes you think he’s at risk of hurting himself while Darrell goes more for the ‘enlightened ignoramus’ approach.

  90. 90
    capelza says:

    Why do we assume that DougJ is a put-on while Darrell is real? Discuss

    The real thing…an indefinable quality, but as Justice Stewart, formerly of the SCOTUS, famously said, despite the difficulty of defining obscenity… “I know it when I see it.”

  91. 91
    ppGaz says:

    Why do we assume that DougJ is a put-on while Darrell is real? Discuss.

    Because Darrell reacts and squeals like a stuck pig when challenged, while DougJ just purrs along … a little too smoothly.

    Also, DougJ’s material is just a little too subtly funny, while Darrell is only funny in the way that a rubber crutch, or a car crash, might be funny.

    DougJ is an exhibit for Intelligent Post Design, while Darrell is just …. a horse’s ass.

  92. 92
    Call_of_the_Right_Wingnuts says:

    Cliff notes for BJ Conservitards:

    “What is OUR oil doing under Venezuela’s land and sea?”

    Manifest Destiny baby!

  93. 93
    Mike in SLO says:

    Well, Darrell has succeeded in turing this whole thread about what a jerk he is and taking the focus off what Pat Robertson advocated. Don’t you see that arguing with Darrell is what he wants? He can spout all his talking points while totally avoiding the real issue. He has learned the neocon MO like a champ and we’re still falling for it! Forget Darrell and his posts, ignore them, quit trying to convince him he’s wrong. It ain’t gonna happen. I’d prefer to keep the discussion on what John posted. Let’s call a spade a spade here:

    PAT ROBERTSON IS A RADICAL CLERIC WHO PRETENDS TO SUPPORT CHRISTIANITY WHILE ALL THE WHILE MOCKING IT. HE IS NO DIFFERENT THAN A RADICAL ISLAMIC CLERIC CALLING FOR A JIHAD AGAINST AMERICA. HE CAN AND SHOULD BE EQUATED WITH OSAMA BIN LADEN AND THE TALIBAN. HE SUPPORTS THE RADICAL OVERTHROW OF THE US CONSTITUTION BY TAKING AWAY THE JUDICIAL BRANCH’S POWERS AND INSTALLING HIS TWISTED BRAND OF CHRISTIANITY AS THE ULTIMATE LAW OF THE LAND. HE IS EQUALLY AS CRAZY AS THE REV. MOON AND ADVOCATES A RADICAL THEOCRACY TO REPLACE OUR DEMOCRACY. WHY IS HE GIVEN SUCH REVERENCE BY OUR SO CALLED LIBERAL MEDIA?

    Discuss.

  94. 94
    ppGaz says:

    WHY IS HE GIVEN SUCH REVERENCE BY OUR SO CALLED LIBERAL MEDIA?

    For the same reason that Michael Jackson and Natalee Holloway are given that reverence. Ratings. Churn. Conflict. Controversy. Doubt, uncertainty, worry.

  95. 95
    Tim F says:

    Also because Pat Robertson matters. See my post above.

  96. 96
    eddie says:

    The pronouncements of Mr. Robertson are one of the main reasons our founders wrote the First Amendment:

    Anyone who claims to have a hotline to God can be dangerous. The fact that this particular zealot is advocating murder, in absolute contradiction to the fundamentals of his “religion” belies his own faith. These blind supporters of such immoral actions are the enemies of our nation not those who stand up and proclaim there opinions disagreeing with the powers that be. Criticizing our president is not the same as condoning murder, pure and simple. And by tolerating (perhaps even lionizing) such actions, any criticism of terrorists’ actions will fall on deaf ears.

    The sad effect on our present situation is that this absolute moral relativism (i.e. the ends justify the means, e.g. Abu Ghraib) has infected our self-righteous leaders and the facile citizens that quite humanly (but still not christianly) want that pound of flesh.

  97. 97
    ppGaz says:

    Anyone who claims to have a hotline to God can be dangerous.

    Yes, I think it was Lily Tomlin who said: Talking to God, that’s prayer. God talking to you, that’s schizophrenia.

  98. 98
    Mike says:

    “Mr Furious Says:

    I’m not saying Sharpton’s a good guy. I lived in NY during the whole Brawley mess. It was a disgrace. One could argue Al and Pat might be equivilent in repulsive qualities, but nowhere close in terms of stature…

    Sharpton was probably even worse than Robertson at one time, but that was as a local rabble-rouser. He has rehabbed his image and rhetoric significantly since then. Robertson comes out with this bullshit to this day.

    That said, “work” is not the “piece” I’d use to describe either.”

    You guys are arguing over who’s the biggest idiot. Sharpton or Robertson. How about this? You’re both right, they are BOTH blithering idiots and they BOTH should be ignored along with a whole list of other folks on both the Left and the Right. I think you’ll find a whole bunch of Republicans distancing themselves from Robertson now. He’s lost it.

  99. 99
    ImJohnGalt says:

    This just in: ppGaz thinks that car crashes are funny. Typical of everyone on the left.

    /snark

    I often stare, agape at the screen, when I read what Darrell has written, and tell myself that like no two snowflakes are alike, at least there’s only one of him.

  100. 100
    Mr Furious says:

    My point exactly. They are BOTH idiots. Robertson is just a much more powerful/influencial idiot.

    I’ll be anxiously awaiting the Republican’s distancing themselves after Robertson’s latest unhinged ranting. Pardon me if I keep breathing while I wait…

  101. 101
    capelza says:

    Watching CNN as I type this. The Venezuelan Ambassador is on right now, calling on Bush to condemn Robertson’s comments.

    One good thing about this is that it might finally shut the old creep up. But that’s just wishful thinking, It’s never worked before.

  102. 102
    Mr Furious says:

    And Cynthia McKinney and Maxine Walters are popular in their districts too? So what’s your point?

    I was just tagging on to Tim’s point that Kucinich was actually a candidate in the primary. And the convention commonly allows slots for the various candidates to speak. You know, the whole fucking point of the thing.

    The fact that Kucinich failed to get the nomination or really have an impact on the race does not undo the fact that he participated in the process, was in the debates and is a popular and successful elected official with a constituency! Not merely a loudmouth tapped to speak to pander to a segment of the population.

  103. 103
    Darrell says:

    Well, Darrell has succeeded in turing this whole thread about what a jerk he is and taking the focus off what Pat Robertson advocated. Don’t you see that arguing with Darrell is what he wants? He can spout all his talking points while totally avoiding the real issue

    Yes, because I’m the one who turned the thread into obsess-over-Darrell stupidity, right? I didn’t avoid the Robertson issue, I dealt with it directly:

    Personally, I cut Pat Robertson slack because his ministry does so much wonderful work feeding and caring for the poor worldwide. They organize medical procedures for patients in countries that otherwise would not have access to such treatment, assistence to those who suffered natural disasters, and a lot more. All things considered, Pat Robertson is quite a person

    Having condemned Robertson for extremist rhetoric, the left demonstrates their penetrating insights

    HE IS NO DIFFERENT THAN A RADICAL ISLAMIC CLERIC CALLING FOR A JIHAD AGAINST AMERICA. HE CAN AND SHOULD BE EQUATED WITH OSAMA BIN LADEN AND THE TALIBAN

  104. 104
    Mr Furious says:

    …Republicans distancing themselves from Robertson…

    …The Venezuelan Ambassador is on right now, calling on Bush to condemn Robertson’s comments.

    Seems like the ball is in the President’s court. Let’s see what happens, Mike.

  105. 105
    Darrell says:

    I was just tagging on to Tim’s point that Kucinich was actually a candidate in the primary. And the convention commonly allows slots for the various candidates to speak. You know, the whole fucking point of the thing.

    thanks for leaving out the entire context of my response Furious. I was responding to this prior post which made zero mention of the candidate-in-primary justification for Kucinich speaking at the Dem convention

    Gee, and he might even be a successful and popular politician in his district too.

  106. 106
    Otto Man says:

    Personally, I cut Pat Robertson slack because his ministry does so much wonderful work feeding and caring for the poor worldwide. They organize medical procedures for patients in countries that otherwise would not have access to such treatment, assistence to those who suffered natural disasters, and a lot more.

    Yes, a lot more.

    In the mid-1990s, Pat struck up a friendship with Mobutu Sese Seko, the brutal tyrant of Zaire. He took a trip to the African nation with a large entourage on one of Mobutu’s personal planes. Then the group was whisked off to his presidential yacht, which took them to his estate. One member of the party characterized their host as quite congenial: “Pat Robertson and Mobutu get along extremely well. Mobutu was interested in bringing in people to get the mining and agriculture operations going again.”

    Robertson purchased rights from Mobutu to dredge for diamonds in a remote portion of the Zaire river near Tshikapa. Diamond mining is an expensive proposition. It requires a constant influx of miners and equipment parts. In order to keep his operation supplied with manpower and gear, personnel and materiel had to be flown in from other places. That can get expensive.

    In a cost-cutting move, Pat ferried his cargo aboard planes owned by Operation Blessing, a tax-exempt charity of Robertson’s working to deliver medical supplies. In fact, according to two pilots who worked for Robertson, nearly all of the flights they made on the Operation Blessing planes were delivery trips to and from the mining site.

    Billy Carter was right. Some Christians deserve to get eaten by lions.

  107. 107

    Robertson confirms stature as “King of the Wackos”

    From the Dept. of “I knew he was wacked but this is Beyond Wack”. Pat Robertson challenged Dobson for who was the most deranged “christian” (notice the quotes) leader. From the NY Times: On Monday, Robertson said on the…

  108. 108
    Tim F says:

    The backing away has begun.

    Just a reminder, this isn’t even that heinous as far as Robertson goes.

    * Promoted assassinations as a government policy in 1999.
    * Floridians should get “killed by a meteor” because of gay day at Disneyland (1998).
    * A “small nuke” should clear up resistance to the Iraq war at Foggy Bottom (State Department headquarters; 2003).
    * Prayed this year that God would open up a few seats on the Supreme Court. Presumably in an old-testament sort of way, although I suppose convincing Breyer and Ginsburg to take up BASE jumping or bullfighting isn’t out of the question.

  109. 109
    ppGaz says:

    I’m the one who turned the thread into obsess-over-Darrell stupidity, right? I didn’t avoid the Robertson issue

    Only after somebody dinged your aborted attempt to turn this into a Michael Moore rant opportunity, Darrellinsky.

    Oops, that was me. [ blush ]

    Aw, shucks.

    Hey, I know: Why don’t you follow up yesterday’s “parallels between Iraq and Japan” thing with today’s “parallels between Pat Robertson and Michael Moore.”

    Let you entertain us, to twist a phrase!

  110. 110
    SeesThroughIt says:

    Personally, I cut Pat Robertson slack because his ministry does so much wonderful work feeding and caring for the poor worldwide. They organize medical procedures for patients in countries that otherwise would not have access to such treatment, assistence to those who suffered natural disasters, and a lot more.

    Wait, shouldn’t they just be praying for help? I mean, medical science is the scourge of the liberal nonbeliever, while the only true path to healing is through Pat Robertson’s Hotline to The Man Upstairs.

    Also, even the fucking Mafia did food drives and such. Can we assume that you also cut that group slack for the wonderful work they do helping the impoverished?

  111. 111
    Darrell says:

    Also, even the fucking Mafia did food drives and such. Can we assume that you also cut that group slack for the wonderful work they do helping the impoverished?

    Comparing Robertson’s ministry to the mafia? Well, I suppose it’s an improvement over the previous poster who compared Robertson to bin Laden and the Taliban.. such balance and perspective coming from the left

  112. 112
    Darrell says:

    Robertson purchased rights from Mobutu to dredge for diamonds in a remote portion of the Zaire river near Tshikapa.

    Good point if true. All the televangelists, as well as non-religious charities, need to have their finances monitored

  113. 113
    Mr Furious says:

    thanks for leaving out the entire context of my response Furious

    Relax, you paranoid dick. Not everything is an attempt to misconstrue your pearls of “wisdom”. I typed my comment to literally piggyback onto tim’s comment. But several comments appeared before I posted, so the context of my comment was lost.

    You asked me what my point was (probably since the comment seemed out of context), and I told you. I was responding to YOU, and included your entire question. I did not recap the whole exchange, because I didn’t think it was necessary.

  114. 114
    Captain Video says:

    The Bible says “Thou Shalt Not Kill” or alternatively “Thou Shalt Not Committ Murder.” Pat Robertson says that the leader of a country should be killed.

    CONCLUSION: Pat Robertson is a moral relativist.

  115. 115
    Captain Video says:

    Clearly there are valid reasons for comparing Robertson with Bin Laden. Both want to impose rigid fundamentalist religious dogma on the population and both want to assasinate people to further their objectives.

  116. 116
    mongo says:

    The free expression of one’s views is one very good thing, but a direct call for the extralegal murder of someone regardless of the circumstances qualifies as a hate crime, doesn’t it?

  117. 117
    Tim F says:

    Comparing Robertson’s ministry to the mafia?

    No dumbass, he’s demonstrating that corrupt organizations can do good things. Time to quit huffing glue.

  118. 118
    Captain Video says:

    I really wish the editor of this block would force an end to the name calling buy deleting messages that call people names. What is required is a RATIONAL debate on the issues and the name calling detracts from this.

  119. 119
    LEE says:

    i can always count on this site to have anti-religious hand-wringers to worry more about a murderous nut job in s. america than unborn babies. oops, fetuses. so pat wants him dead. big whup. i know of millions of muslims that want us dead. i could care less what pat says. libbys: pull your panties out’yo crack and act like you got some sense.

  120. 120
    Otto Man says:

    i can always count on this site to have anti-religious hand-wringers to worry more about a murderous nut job in s. america than unborn babies. oops, fetuses.

    So, wait, advocating murder is “religious”? And since when did we have to choose between a stance on abortion and a stance on assassination?

    so pat wants him dead. big whup. i know of millions of muslims that want us dead. i could care less what pat says.

    It’s apparent you could care less what Pat says. You should try. Personally, I couldn’t care less.

    libbys: pull your panties out’yo crack and act like you got some sense.

    Wait a second. I think I’ve just been punk’d by Jesus’ General.

  121. 121
    Mike says:

    “mongo Says:

    The free expression of one’s views is one very good thing, but a direct call for the extralegal murder of someone regardless of the circumstances qualifies as a hate crime, doesn’t it?”

    Well it certainly seems to qualify as “hate”, but I doubt it’s a crime due to the circumstances. What really annoys me about this kind of crap is that I know it’s not what most Christians, at least the ones I grew up around are like in any way. Yet this kind of stupid rhetoric gives those that despise and are prejudiced against Christians just another reason to feel they are justified in their believes. It’s clowns like Robertson, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, Benny Hinn, etc. that do more to foster this than a thousand Christians putting up houses for Habitat for Humanity, opening their churches to the homeless, working in soup kitchens and such other endeavors.

    It also does absolutely NOTHING to help the Bush Administration or the Country in trying to keep positive relations and influence with Central and South American countries. In fact, I’d go so far as to say it HURTS the country for no other reason than it gives a thug like Chavez more ammunition to use in his anti-American rhetoric.

  122. 122
    LEE says:

    i knew if i went trolling i catch someone ‘offended’. come on, auto man, tell me your hands are sweatin now, just thinking about how hate-filled ole pat is. and poor hugo ain’t that bad (stolen elections–even tho jimmah said otherwise). reclaiming private property. supporting dictators like castro/saddam/ect…. and see, i linked (2) touchy subjects (wow) together to point out hypocrits who have no problem with him yet are ‘pro-choice’.

  123. 123
    Otto Man says:

    i knew if i went trolling i catch someone ‘offended’. come on, auto man, tell me your hands are sweatin now, just thinking about how hate-filled ole pat is. and poor hugo ain’t that bad (stolen elections—even tho jimmah said otherwise). reclaiming private property. supporting dictators like castro/saddam/ect…. and see, i linked (2) touchy subjects (wow) together to point out hypocrits who have no problem with him yet are ‘pro-choice’.

    It’s like they taught a dog to type.

  124. 124
    schroeder says:

    Well, let’s talk about stance on abortion. Because Rev. Pat is all for it. He went on record on China’s forced-abortion policy saying, essentially, he wasn’t for abortion, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

    Now, the fact that he’s all for forced abortions in China, but dead-set against voluntary ones here, makes me think one of two things:

    A) He doesn’t want abortions to happen to white embryos. Asians, he doesn’t care so much about.

    but I don’t want to just knee-jerk assume he’s a racist, so I’m leaning towards this explanation:

    B) If the government prohibits abortion, Robertons’s all for it. If the government mandates abortion, he can live with it. But if a woman actually decides for herself what she wants to do with her body and her life, then it’s hellfire and brimstone.

    For people like Robertson it’s not about morals, and it’s not about faith: it’s about forcing their worldview on everyone else. And if twisting Christian faith around to serve that end didn’t work so well, he’d drop the televangelism and become a lobbyist.

  125. 125
    Mr Furious says:

    OM, it’s like a dog taught itself to type…

  126. 126
    ppGaz says:

    For people like Robertson it’s not about morals, and it’s not about faith: it’s about forcing their worldview

    Could be, but I am constantly struck by the elegance of the simplest possible explanation for a great deal of what these “christian” potentates say and do:

    They frame their “positions” in such a way as to maximize the revenue stream from their demographic base. They know, after many years of patient trial-and-error, that one way to get the base riled up and writing checks is to demagogue about abortion.

    I think we overlook the obvious about these people (whether it’s Pat, or Benny Hinn, or Falwell, or Schuller, or Dobson, or Oral Roberts ….) …. they’re an industry. They are about very, very large amounts of money.

    It’s my opinion that the abortion issue is all about money.

    Simple as that.

    Thoughts?

  127. 127
    Otto Man says:

    OM, it’s like a dog taught itself to type…

    True. A human instructor might have offered tips on spelling and grammar.

  128. 128
    Robert says:

    Jesus Christ is a LIBERAL!!!!

    When Christ comes back to earth you’ll see Pat Robertson donate the wood and nails.

  129. 129
    Otto Man says:

    It’s my opinion that the abortion issue is all about money.

    Simple as that.

    Well, that seems like half the equation. It’s also all about votes.

    As long as the political-religious complex of the right keeps agitating the base about abortion but never actually doing anything about it, the GOP politicians stay in office and the televangelists stay in the black.

  130. 130
    ratn says:

    “Remember, fascist are only in WWII Italy.

    August 23rd, 2005 at 1:35 pm ”

    JG–you need to look the word up. Seriously. You are terribly misinformed.

  131. 131
    John S. says:

    As long as the political-religious complex of the right keeps agitating the base about abortion but never actually doing anything about it, the GOP politicians stay in office and the televangelists stay in the black.

    The greatest irony of all is the ‘political-religious complex’ itself. Religion is the water to the oil of politics, and suffice to say, the two do not really mix.

    But the Republicans are so determined to make this concoction viable that the only way they can make the solution appear to be homogoneous is by violently shaking it up as often as they can.

    So by constantly agitating politics and religion, they present the illusion that the two can mix. If anyone looks closely, however, they will notice all the tiny little oil droplets still floating around in the water.

    And of course, if the mixture is left standing for too long without any agitation, the oil droplets will all happily coagulate and settle at the bottom of the water. Because, in fact, oil and water do not mix, no matter how hard you try.

  132. 132
    DougJ says:

    What’s so crazy about taking out Chavez. Chavez is a Marxist with strong ties to terrorism. He consistently opposes our policies. The fact that he controls so much of the world’s oil makes him a potential menace of Saddam-like levels. Imagine if he was using that oil money to produce WMDs? He’s practically our neighbor — he might be able to hit, say, Texas with scuds.

    There are lots of good reasons to take Chavez out. But no one wants to listen because it is coming from the “evil” Pat Robertson.

  133. 133
    bains says:

    This just shows how evil the Bush Administration is. Where does Robertson get off smearing Ms. Sheehan’s good name like that…

    /snark

  134. 134
    DougJ says:

    Excellent, bains!

    I do wonder if part of the reason that the librul media is jumping all over this story is to distract from the hippie circus that “Camp Casey” has become. Cindy’s poll numbers are now firmly in Howard Dean territory, with disapproval much higher than approval. The American people don’t like nuts and they know nuts when the seem them. Rush said it looks like a Phish concert down there and asked “How many soybeans were killed to feed Camp Casey for a day?” Good stuff.

  135. 135
    masaccio says:

    Is this the first time you have noticed a similarity between the leadership of the Christian right and Islamic fundamentalists? Boy, you are unobservant.

  136. 136
    DougJ says:

    Is this the first time you have noticed a similarity between the leadership of the Christian right and Islamic fundamentalists?

    Quite simply, such comparisons are preposterous. Christianity has guided Western civilization for two thousand years. It was borned out of Judaism which dates back to the earliest periods of human history. Islam has only come into prominence recently. It lacks the wisdom of Christianity. The Koran is barbaric when compared with the bible.

    That is not to say that I disrespect Islam. I respect it as I respect all faiths. But you can’t fairly compare it to Christianity.

  137. 137
    JWeidner says:

    I do wonder if part of the reason that the librul media is jumping all over this story is to distract from the hippie circus that “Camp Casey” has become. Cindy’s poll numbers are now firmly in Howard Dean territory, with disapproval much higher than approval. The American people don’t like nuts and they know nuts when the seem them. Rush said it looks like a Phish concert down there and asked “How many soybeans were killed to feed Camp Casey for a day?” Good stuff.

    OM, Furious…And here’s the monkey who taught the dog to type…

  138. 138
    ppGaz says:

    He consistently opposes our policies.

    Wow, strong stuff, Dougie.

    I notice that you consistently oppose my policies.

    I’m taking you out.

    In a christian way, of course.

  139. 139
    ppGaz says:

    Is this the first time you have noticed a similarity between the leadership of the Christian right and Islamic fundamentalists?

    Quite simply, such comparisons are preposterous. Christianity has guided Western civilization for two thousand years. It was borned out of Judaism which dates back to the earliest periods of human history.

    Careful …. careful. You don’t want to blow your cover!

  140. 140
    DougJ says:

    Come on ppGaz, you know I mean to type “born”. My grammar isn’t perfect but you know I’m not that dumb.

  141. 141
    Mr Furious says:

    In the same breath you say this…

    That is not to say that I disrespect Islam. I respect it as I respect all faiths.

    …you also say:

    It lacks the wisdom of Christianity. The Koran is barbaric when compared with the bible.

    So do you have NO respect for ANY religions? Or are you just an idiot?

    Don’t worry, DougJ, I respect you like I respect all morons…

  142. 142
    ppGaz says:

    you know I’m not that dumb

    Never said you were dumb. But if you aren’t careful, people will figure out that you are putting us on, and then …. well, then what? We’ll have nothing left but Darrell to strike with our Loon Mallets.

  143. 143
    tBone says:

    DougJ, you magnificent bastard. That Islam post is some of your finest work, weaving together unintentional irony, staggering ignorance of history (not to mention science), and mild xenophobia, all topped off with a delicious cherry of blatant hypocrisy. Bravo, sir! You’re one of the finest parodists working today.

  144. 144
    Chris says:

    This is classic Republican smokescreen bullshit. Pat Robertson makes a competely outrageous remark, and next thing you know we’re talking about Al Sharpton and Michael Moore. To review: In 1988 Robertson won the Minnesota primary and Washington caucuses, came in second in Iowa (ahead of GHW Bush) and third in South Carolina. Until today he could get George Bush on the phone at any time. He’s not some amusing, crazy-uncle-in-the-attic fringe element of the Republican party. No, he doesn’t represent all Republicans, maybe not even most of them. But he’s a powerful figure in the party who gets his ring kissed by every candidate. More importantly, his comments about Chavez are consistent with his approach on other issues, including blaming the 9/11 attacks on our own moral decay (you know, he’s part of that Blame America First crowd.) Instead of Republicans facing up to what one of their own has done and leaving it at that, they have to try and turn it back on the Democrats. Sorry folks, today it’s your day to squirm.

  145. 145
    Darrell says:

    This is classic Republican smokescreen bullshit. Pat Robertson makes a competely outrageous remark

    yes, I’m sure middle america is peeing their pants with worry over the horror of Pat Robertson threatening that latin scumbag. I’d tell you to get a grip, but I think it’s a little late for that

    DougJ, you magnificent bastard. That Islam post is some of your finest work

    ..You’re one of the finest parodists working today.

    I gotta agree.. he is on a roll today

  146. 146
    bains says:

    Seventeen years ago, Robertson won just how many delegates in the primary? Was he placed on the national ticket? Did he get a high profile (or any)position with government?

    Sorry Chris but Robertson has long been on the road to has beendom. The few Republicans that might have answered his phone calls probably got their number changed after that stupid Falwell/Robertson post 9-11 discussion.

  147. 147
    Jim says:

    What would happen if, tomorrow, Venezuela ordered all U.S. missionaries out of the country? Counter productive (given those folks do for that , country), probably. Justified, probably not. Defensible, yep.

  148. 148
    SeesThroughIt says:

    That is not to say that I disrespect Islam. I respect it as I respect all faiths. But you can’t fairly compare it to Christianity.

    Well, it is true that the body count created in the name of Islam can’t even remotely compare to the body count created in the name of Christianity, so I guess it is an unfair comparison.

  149. 149
    Chris says:

    “Seventeen years ago, Robertson won just how many delegates in the primary? Was he placed on the national ticket? Did he get a high profile (or any)position with government?”

    Thanks for proving my point. If winning primaries isn’t enough to make him relevant to a party, then where exactly do Al Sharpton and Michael Moore fit in? Are you saying that having a seat at the convention makes you more influential than winning primaries, having tons of followers and controlling a major war chest? And asking if he got a position with the government is a little disingenuous. Exactly what position do you think he would have accepted? The 17 years thing is also not necessarily relevant. Gephardt, Gore and Biden were all in the 88 Democratic primaries, so it wasn’t that long ago.

  150. 150
    Sirkowski says:

    Allahu ackbar?

  151. 151
    DougJ says:

    I don’t think Robertson would do well in a Republican primary in, say, 2008. His influence is definitely on the wane. I think that James Dobson is really the most influential evangelical right now, and I like him a lot better than Robertson.

    Still, Pat Robertson helped nurture the evangelical political movement for years, and he deserves our respect. I don’t agree with everything he says — his comments about feminists were a little over the top (my wife considers herself a feminist so that hit a little close to home — but he is a man of faith, a man who has a lot of wisdom about a lot of issues. And I think that on Chavez, he’s probably right.

  152. 152
    ppGaz says:

    but he is a man of faith, a man who has a lot of wisdom

    Uh, Dougie? That’s an oxymoron.

    Faith is “belief in the absence of evidence, or despite evidence to the contrary.”

    Are we really sure that’s what we are looking for in a president?

    For you maybe. Not for me.

  153. 153
    AlanDownunder says:

    Never mind the 6th Commandment foul. That’s mainstream GOP. But muslims in Venezuala???

  154. 154
    Ike says:

    Well, being a moderate Republican, I happen to think Pat Robertson is a fucking creep, but since Tim F wants to be a tool and turn this into “our kooks aren’t as bad as your kooks”, I’ll see you Rev Pat and raise you Rev Al.

    What an odd comment from Another Jeff…

    It’s quite possible he has no idea what the John Birch Society is or how closely Pat Robertson might be aligned with it. This Jeff may have no idea how closely he is in agreement with the JBS. That “moderate Republican” must be another Another Jeff. I doubt it if anyone still associated with GOP is a moderate Republican these days. All the moderate Republicans are liberal Democrats now. Bill Clinton was the best Republican president since my 8 years in office.

  155. 155
    Ike says:

    It was borned out of Judaism which dates back to the earliest periods of human history.

    Doug J is not doing parody. He’s doing parotty, but his owner was a blithering idiot. No Crackers.

  156. 156
    bains says:

    The point is Chris, is that the kooks on either side often think much more of themselves than there actual influence upon policy. They do affect politics, and political parties however. Buchanan, Falwell, Robertson, and Dobson all do more for the left base, just as Jesse Jackson, Farakan, Sharpton and Moore affect the right. Nothing more galvanizing that a kook percieved to be embraced as mainstream by the other guys…

    What does impress the pols is an ability to turn out a vote, and if you can’t embrace him (or her), give ’em a choice seat at the convention… or let ’em speak. But the more visible, the more to your own peril.

  157. 157
    mulefly says:

    How does the “Hey, but I think your crazy asshole guy from yesteryear makes my crazy asshole guy from today look like a basket of puppies.” Joovy.
    What’s next? Maybe Pat can take advantage of this insane logic to expand his hit list.
    Anybody know if Manson was a liberal?

  158. 158
    Raging Bee says:

    “al Qaeda Pat” Robertson has given explicit verbal support to known enemies of the US, and has explicitly attacked the very core values on which our republic is built. His latest embarrassing faux-macho talk of killing Chavez has added credibility to Chavez’ paranoid Yank-bashing. AND good ole Pat is a Bush supporter and influential Republican of long standing, which is why this “person who hates our freedoms” will never be targeted in the war on terror.

    Is it any wonder so many right-wingers are screaming so loud about Al Sharpton and Cindy Sheehan? They desperately need to distract attention from their own loonies (Sun Myung Moon, Santorum, Keyes, Norquist, Helms, “al Qaeda Pat,” the neo-creationists, etc.).

  159. 159
    Chris says:

    “What does impress the pols is an ability to turn out a vote,”

    I think owning your own network and sleeping on a big ol’ pile of money gain you a little respect, too. Republican politicians aren’t idiots. They know they can’t just come out and embrace Robertson, or Dobson, for that matter, and say “I agree with everything this guy says.” Because the role of guys like Dobson and Robertson is to be flamethrowers who make outrageous statements, and the politicians don’t want to have to own everything these guys say. So they do a little dance with them. I agree that Dobson is probably more influential than Robertson right now, but it’s not an either/or proposition. Robertson is still hugely influential, and will be as long as he has all those eyeballs and all that money.

  160. 160
    schroeder says:

    Yahoo News: UK Unveils Grounds for Banning Hate Preachers

    If this were Britain, Robertson would have just gotten himself deported.

  161. 161
    Tim F says:

    Ike,

    For what it’s worth, I thing that Jeff was replying to my first post rather than my second. That point was intended to kick off a healthy debate about nuts on the right and left, their relative levels of vitriol and their relative influence.

  162. 162
    Tim F says:

    Here’s a heartwarming tale from Carpetbagger about why the 700 Club will not leave ABC…ever.

  163. 163
    madrino says:

    Bush is a follower of Right Wing Christian Theocrats and want war and much more. Robertson is one of the founders of this movement which has converted what was once a conservative party based upon Dominionism.

    The US is a moving torward becoming a Militaristic Christian Theocracy. The evangelical right thinks exactly like Pat Robertson and has no remorse in what he said regarding assasination of world leaders that don’t believe as they do. The tears they shed are crocodile tears and can best be understood by going to http://www.theocracywatch.org/audio-video.htm and listen or watch what the leadership in the US has become.

  164. 164
    DougJ says:

    Robertson just said what everyone has been thinking for years. If Al Franken had said it, all the lefties would be applauding and criticizing Bush for not having killed Chavez long ago. Those who are going after Robinson never liked him to begin with. They’re using this as an excuse to exercise in their favorite sport, Christian-bashing.

  165. 165
    Mike says:

    “Raging Bee Says:

    Is it any wonder so many right-wingers are screaming so loud about Al Sharpton and Cindy Sheehan? They desperately need to distract attention from their own loonies (Sun Myung Moon, Santorum, Keyes, Norquist, Helms, “al Qaeda Pat,” the neo-creationists, etc.).”

    That’s funny.
    I was just listening to Joe Scarbourgh’s show not 5 minutes ago and the entire show was on CONDEMNING what Robertson said.

  166. 166
    Tim F says:

    I honestly haven’t heard much defense of Robertson, except from DougJ and everybody knows he’s a put-on. The Sharpton-Farrakhan stuff on this thread came from a tiff that I provoked for my own nefarious ends. Some points are best made dialectically.

    Even Robertson isn’t really defending Robertson. Here’s the official CBN response:

    “We are at a time of war and Pat had war on his mind when he made the comments.”

    Excuse or apology? Sort of hard to tell.

  167. 167
    DaveF says:

    TimF,

    Why are you talking about Pat Robertson? I though this thread was about Al Sharpton. ;} Deflect! Deflect!

  168. 168
    Raging Bee says:

    No, DougJ, we’re not bashing Christians, we’re bashing phony Christians — you know, people who call themselves Christians but show no sign of comprehending the most basic teachings of Jesus. Do you see the difference?

    And what “lefties” would applaud the killing of a leftist politician?

  169. 169
    jim says:

    I think we can all agree that Pat Robertson is a nut and a creep. Him, Dobson, and all their oily televangelist ilk. Sharpton has a history of demagogery as well. The only reason any of them are listene d to is because they command supporters. Blacks support Sharpton, because they feel he will represent them and their interests. Robertson and Dobson must generate the same feelings from their Christians supporters.

    So perhaps what all here can agree on, is that all supporters should be made aware of the hypocrisy and foolishness of their leaders. Next time Sharpton says something stupid, please by all means shout it to the world.

    Meanwhile, currently on deck is Robertson, a Christian minister calling for assassination, and now lying about it and saying he was misquoted.

    It seems politically unrealistic, at this point, to expect Bush or the rest of the GOP to denounce him. Especially with ’06 coming up, when they’ll want all the Christian supporters they can get.

    Nevertheless, I wish they would denounce him. We’re in a country with a president who claims to be a born-again Christian. Robertson, as a self-assumed speaker for US Christians, has really smeared the US name this time. Bad.

  170. 170
    Raging Bee says:

    UPDATE: al-Qaeda-Pat is now trying to deny saying what everyone bloody well knows he said. According to him, “taking him out” could mean “any number of things” — like dinner and a movie. And of course, the dreaded MSM misrepresented what he said, ’cause everyone’s persecuting him. (Apparently he thinks we’ll forget that he explicitly advocated assassination.)

    This Christofascist explicitly said that 9/11 was God’s warning to America not to be so tolerant of gays, pagans, liberals, and other harmless people he’s hated all his life. Liberals have been trashed by right-wingers for saying much milder stuff than that. So why do the same right-wingers give Robertson a free pass? Where is the outrage?

  171. 171
    DougJ says:

    And what “lefties” would applaud the killing of a leftist politician?

    This may shock you, but I don’t consider the lefties in this country — Michael Moore, Hillary, Howard Dean — to be all that similar to Hugo Chavez. I take a lot of shots at the American left, but I would never compare them to a tyrant like Chavez. I don’t see why you would, either, quite frankly.

  172. 172
    DougJ says:

    Pat Robertson says that the leader of a country should be killed.

    But not murdered. The commandments say “Thou shalt not murder.” Assassinating a corrupt and dangerous leader is miles away from murder, just as executing a serial killer is.

  173. 173
    Robert says:

    DougJ: Nice post. Don’t let the facts get in the awy of your support for the red, white and blue.

    “Hugo Chavez is, in fact, the democratically elected President of Venezuela. In a failed recall vote last year, he got 58% support. He governs with a democratically elected legislature. Venezuela is not a military power and has not engaged in any military buildup, has not threatened anyone, does not subvert its neighbors, and does not employ either communist or muslim infiltrators. It is a predominantly Catholic country”.

    “Chavez’s presidency is more legitimate than that of GW Bush, and his behavior internationally, unlike that of the Bush administration, is entirely in comformity with international law and norms”.

    Tip to Cervantes on another site.

  174. 174
    SeesThroughIt says:

    But not murdered. The commandments say “Thou shalt not murder.” Assassinating a corrupt and dangerous leader is miles away from murder, just as executing a serial killer is.

    DougJ, you know you can get put behind bars for threatening Bush like that, right? You shouldn’t say such things on a public forum.

  175. 175
    B. Ross says:

    DougJ apparently failed to graduate from Sunday School.

    Please review Commandments Six and Nine, and re-read the actual words of Jesus Christ. Then report back to the class.

  176. 176
    Steve T. says:

    This is hardly the worst that Pat Robertson’s been up to. Remember, he’s a business partner and vocal supporter of Charles Taylor in Liberia, who has not only extensively supported Al Qaeda but is largely responsible for the deaths of millions of people in Liberia and Congo. He’s a mass murderer, and Robertson has millions of dollars in investments with him. Robertson has also stolen millions of 700 Club money meant for African aid, and used it to buy diamond and gold mining equipment instead. He’s a major-league scumbag, not even in Sharpton’s league.

    As for inflammatory statements like this, he’s made them before and he’ll make them again. It’s all for fanning the flames of his fund-raising machine. Remember this gem: “what we need is for someone to place a small nuke at Foggy Bottom (the State Department headquarters)”? The man is a nutcase and a total bag of filth.

  177. 177
    Raging Bee says:

    If a left-leaning American had said anything similar to what al-Qaeda-Pat has said (i.e., about al Qaeda being right to kill Americans, or about bombing government buildings), he’d be investigated as a potential spy, terrorist or infiltrator. So how many other terrorist sympathizers (aka “people who hate our freedoms”) have infiltrated the Republican Party? Shouldn’t someone be investigating this?

  178. 178
    Joe says:

    It lacks the wisdom of Christianity. The Koran is barbaric when compared with the bible.

    This just show your complete ignorance. Have you ever heard of something called the Dark Ages? It happened in Christian Europe. Do you know what else was happening then? In Muslim countries science was advancing. The base ten (decimal) number system we use came from Muslim scholars. In fact the actual way we write our number is Arabic (Arabic numerals). Modern astronomy eveolved from their research. While Christians were burning books during the dark ages, Muslims were preserving them. When the reformation happened and Christian dominated Europe emerged from the dark ages, the Muslim countries had preserved the knowlegde of the ancient Greeks and Romans, etc…without which our democracies would not exist.

    A quote:
    “The period between the fall of the Roman Empire and the beginning of the Renaissance has been called the Dark Ages because during that time, the light of learning lay dormant in Europe. But elsewhere, and perhaps nowhere more than in the Arab-Muslim world, it not only shone but brightened.”

    Here is a link
    http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/Co.....olars.html

  179. 179

    […] Living in Virginia Beach, I’ve endured many of Pat Robertson’s calls for assassination of foreign heads of state, prayers for the shake up of Supreme Court Justices, and warnings of the wrath of God on gay people. Hell, I’ve even benefited from Pat Robertson’s strength and abilities to redirect hurricanes through prayer. […]

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  1. […] Living in Virginia Beach, I’ve endured many of Pat Robertson’s calls for assassination of foreign heads of state, prayers for the shake up of Supreme Court Justices, and warnings of the wrath of God on gay people. Hell, I’ve even benefited from Pat Robertson’s strength and abilities to redirect hurricanes through prayer. […]

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  3. Losing my faith

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