Saw this via Outside the Beltway:
Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer left his church last week after the pastor wrote him a letter suggesting “it might be easier for all of us” if he leave.
Greer, whose orders on the Terri Schiavo case have brought him criticism, is a Southern Baptist who attended Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater.
Though he had other unrelated problems with the church, Greer’s attendance faltered after a Baptist publication the church supported criticized his decisions in the Schiavo case. He stopped his donations to the church, but remained a member. He briefly discussed his relationship with the church in a March 6 St. Petersburg Times article.
Four days later, Calvary Pastor William Rice wrote Greer a letter: “I am not asking you to do this, but since you have taken the initiative of withdrawal, and since your connection with Calvary continues to be a point of concern, it would seem the logical and, I would say, biblical course.”
Rice’s letter became public when he sent a copy to the Clearwater courthouse. Rice also said the church supports keeping Schiavo alive, though he said he was “truly saddened and embarrassed by the level of harassment and vitriolic nature of so many comments that purportedly come from people of faith.”
Rice, who has been pastor at the church for five months, added: “But you must know that in all likelihood it is this case which will define your career and this case that you will remember in the waning days of life. I hope you can find a way to side with the angels and become an answer to the prayers of thousands.”
Greer responded with a letter severing his relationship with the church.
Marco
Let the Inquisition begin! Besides, mass televised crucifictions would be good ratings for cable news.
Defense Guy
OK, I disagree with Greer on this issue. Strongly in fact, but what sort of Christian pastor does this kind of crap. Good Lord, this is not what is supposed to happen. To turn him away, in what might be his hour of most need, is just wrong.
I really need a good guy in this case, I am starting to lose some faith in my fellow man.
Steve Malynn
John, do I have the time line correct:
Judge Greer is a member of a strongly pro-life denomination, he is presiding over a case that implicates a central tenet of the faith and makes legal rulings that are clearly a defensible interpretation of the civli law – but ones he must know will cross the moral predicates of his church. He is certainly to be commended for his intellectual honesty, but should he have been suprised that his church would also be true to their beleifs?
So the Judge then stops his tithing after being criticized, a human reaction, but not a little thin skinned.
Then the Judge airs his dispute with the St. Petersburg Times.
THEN the pastor of the church writes the Judge with an apology for the harassment purportedly caused by “christians”, but with the request that the Judge change his mind, and some language that could be paraphrased as a suggestion to leave. Then the Judge made the letter public (and if you think mail addressed to a Judge at a county courthous becomes public if the judge does not want it to be public, I’ve got this bridge . . . .)
Not really zealotry, simply unfortunate results of irreconsilable differences.
john
Are you a baptist mr. Cole ?
File my question under general stupidity.
John Cole
TNo, and this post wasnt supposed to be filed under ‘General Stupidyt,’ either.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Al Maviva
What the hell. What a complete overreaction on the part of the judge and the pastor.
I mean, it’s not like the church refused an easement for a bike path or something apocalyptic like that which would merit schism…
Yeezaaaaarrrrrghhhhhaaa!
Misha I
Us evil, jihadi Christians. Questioning this outstanding citizen’s membership of our club merely because he’s breaking every rule in it?
How can we possibly live with ourselves? Next we’ll be refusing Satanists, sodomites and murderers the holy sacrament!
Incog Neato
Actually Misha….it is the Satanists, sodomites and murderer’s that you should be embracing. They are the ones that the Church should be reaching out to….not pushing away. Remember that guy named Jesus? The one that hung out with tax collecters, murderers and prostitutes?
Sundown
What gives, Misha?
Issuing a controversial ruling is the same thing as Satan worship?
Steve Malynn
By the way John, why has Greer sealed the court files?
mishar
This is heartbreaking. here is a man who is following a truly conservative judiciary philosophy, putting his own opinions aside, and implementing the law, as set forth by the Florida legislature and the Florida supreme court. He has acted with surpassing integrity, and for that he is asked to leave his church. They have purged the best among them.
Dave Munger
Answer to Defense Guy’s question: The Apostle Paul.
c. lopez
Judge Greer needs to be impeached. He has consistantly refused to acknowlege he COULD be wrong. There is to much evidence Terry would want to live. He is a murderer and has stepped on every persons constitutional right to live. God save his soul, one day he will answer for his obstante and reckless decision
E.Muscolino
Why are the files on this case not open to public scrutiny. Nothing is black and white, Judge Greer. Have you questioned her husbands adamant motives? Is he trying to hide something? By the way Judge, there are a few more caes for you. I know of a number of Alzheimer’s patients that are warehoused because they cannot spreak, feed themselves, recognize any of his friends and family, etc., and costing tax dollars for hospice care that cannot possibly cure them. And you call yourself a right to lifer?
Beekeeper
I read more about Dr. Rice and Judge Greer. It seems that Judge Greer talked about his church involvement in the newspaper, which led Dr. Rice to write to Greer out of concern that his church was being connected to the ideas that Greer seems to use in his judgments in court. From everything I see, Dr. Rice did NOT ask Greer to leave the church. He asked him to examine his relationship with the church’s teachings. That does not seem out of place for a pastor to ask such a high profile public figure in the community, since he was talking about the church in the paper. After receiving that letter from Dr. Rice asking him to think about his beliefs and church connection, Greer, ever the inflexible man, promptly sent his letter of resignation to the church.
I heard from attorneys in the area that Judge Greer is known to be inflexible in his rulings, will never admit he might have made a mistake, and basically, “has no reverse in his transmission,” according to attorneys who know him. These remarks were made BEFORE Greer handed down his first decision in the case.
One comment about the last post which talks about embracing the sinners, that Jesus did that, yes He did. However, the sinners are to show remorse and an effort to change. Today you all are talking about accepting sinners for the lovely people they are, perversions and all. That’s not what Jesus taught.
Betty
Judge Greer will be judged by people around the world
and will be a hated man for his cruel heart as long as he lives, however, there is a JUDGE WAY ABOVE HIS COURT, that he will answer to in the end. This is the only comfort I can get from all of this. God’s justice in eternity will be the ultimate “decision” for Judge Greer. Unless Greer finds his way back to the Lord – no matter what church he goes to, his demise will be far worse in eternity than Terri Schiavo’s.
Angela
The church turning people away! I thought God was the one to judge. People keep saying Terri wants to live, she is aware of her surroundings etc. What do we really know? Only what the media has told us and I for one don’t trust the media. Dozens of doctors say she is in a vegetative state. If she lives, she will suffer but her parents will have comfort in having her alive. If she dies..she joins God in heaven. Choices Choices.
Calvary church member
I am a member of Calvary Baptist. Judge Greer may have been a member but has not attended nor supported the church for quite some time. He stated this in the first article in the St. Pete Times. Our Pastor only reached out to him in a letter to see if he really intended to not be an active member of Calvary in the future. He was not asked to leave nor voted out or kicked out, nor did we turn our backs on him. He voluntarily resigned. You all should not make assumptions based on the media. Especially in this case. Did you notice that the words “if you leave” were NOT in quotes in the paper? The St. Pete Times added these words and has a way of twisting the facts to stir up a mess. They did not publish the entire letter, only picked out parts of it and sensationalized it. If you knew Dr. Rice you would know that his intentions were not to throw out someone. He’s asked the congregation to pray for Judge Greer and all who are involved in this. He has never spoken one negative word about Judge Greer from the pulpit either. He is just not the type to do such a thing, even though we are a strong pro-life church. He was willing to meet with Judge Greer but the Judge sent a resignation letter in response.If you want to see the church’s “official” response. Go to Calvary’s website at http://www.calvarybaptist.org and click on What’s New, then click on News and Events.
Steve Schneider
Terry was not dying until judge greer made the decision to start the killing process. This cannot stand in this country. I would file a malpractice suit against the hospice company and sue the so called husband in a civil suit for wrongful death. I will be rethinking who gets my vote in the future, I am stunned at the weakness of our representatives. God will have the final word in the end.
nauhite
What Church would tolerate a member that condems an innocent person to a death by starvation. I would kick the Nazi out myself.
Brian Langbecker
What everyone seems to be missing, God puts leaders into power. Judge Greer will be judged harsher than others like leaders within the Church. Have any of you reviewed the in-depth anaylysis of Judge Greer’s abuses regarding guardianship laws, the lack of legally required follow-up of guardianship, and the subtle campaign to prevent this from being known to the public. If he cannot hold himself accountable to simple laws how does he continue to hold his office? Like a pastor caught doing something cleary wrong, he should resign and reconcile himself to God. If I was a member of his church, I would have brought these abuses to light and forced Judge Greer to address them.
Below is a detailed anaylsis of his lack of following the law.
http://www.theempirejournal.com/0313055_schiavogate_the_big_cove.htm
heffer
hmm,let me get this straight. a man appointed by jebesus bush to carry out the law of the land and who probably agonised over the decision, is villified by his own church because the freeks dont agree with it. if it were up to me, ALL so-called christians would be rounded up and burned, stoned, crucified and beheaded! so much for turn the other cheek!
Brian Langbecker
He was not appointed by Bush you ignorant fool; appointments only occur on the federal level and must go through a confirmation process. and before you throw Jesus language around you should actually read the Bible. turn the other check is one of the most misunderstood phrases in the Bible. he was questioned by his own church. he made his decision leave. unlike you, i suspect, good Christians should not just let other Christians do whatever they want just because they claim to believe the same thing.
Barbara Chronister
Judge Greer will stand before God on Judgement Day. What a sad day in America to see an innocent woman actually starved to death, while no one did anything to help her. We treat dying animals better in this country….Sincerely, Barbara
Ranger1
In Heffer’s comments, we see the true spirit of liberal compassion.
I have a feeling that when Teri died this person was probaly in a state of euphoria. He most likely got drunk, beat his wife to a pulp, then kicked an injured puppy on his way to the local porno theater, where he ganged raped a nun with all of his degenarate friends.
By the way heffer, you may just get your wish about the treatment of Christians if judges like Greer are appointed to the bench.
Mike
I have read a few of your reactions, but the bottom line is this. Greer DID NOT put his beliefs in GOD into this, NOR did he use ANY type of integrity with this. As it stand right now Greer has violated over 50 Florida Statutes (laws). Not only did he violate the laws, but Felos, and 1 other Judge violated some. They all will be investigated. If Greer had any integrity he would have removed himself from this case do to Conflict of interest. (which is required by law) The intire story is way to long to put on here, but if Greer was such a Christian man he would never have violated Florida Law. I agree Terri should not have been put to death like this, but on the other hand 80% of Americans would not want to live the way she did. I could care less if I did have a loving family, if my life is reduced to a worthless state then put me to rest. Put me to rest in a dignified manner, not by staving me.
Congress is not done with the 6th Judicial Circuit yet. To ignore a Federal request to appear is also a violation of the law. Obstruction can and should be pushed.
heffer
Okay,ok..I probably went a bit to far on my last post, but try to understand how confusing this is for an average person to deal with. On one hand we have the religious people saying judge Greer killed her, and the same people saying only god can take a life. Well it seems to me god had a choice to make and choose indifferance. Did he not hear the MILLIONS of his faithful subjects, or did he choose to ignore them? One would think that if there ever was a time for god to be heard, it would be in this situation! Wow, just think how cool it would have been for Terri to wake up and say god told her to do so! But alas, the MILLIONS who prayed were ignored. People, please please, look into your lives and ask yourselves “is there anything in my life that TRULY cannot be explained.” Now, there are things that happen purely by chance, the bigger the numbers the bigger the chance, but that does not mean we have to mystify it. Is the truth so bad? I do not have all the answers, but I believe a god who would horrificly kill tens of thousands of children in a tsunami, should at least be asked why, especially when we are asked to justify why we take certain actions that may be against his beliefs. I realise these questions have been going on for thousands of years, but we should at least pause, and say “thats not right, whats up with that.” After all if god is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent one can make the argument that he not only knew this was going to happen, but actually planned it!! This is not the kind of GOD I choose to worship. Arrgh, maybe I am looking at this all wrong. If I am please tell me why. Respectfuly, Heffer
Jerry
Heffer, Judge Greer made a terrible mistake and turned away from doing the right thing after being given several chances to get it right. You may want to consider your words before putting them out there for thousands of witnesses. You are not in a position to Judge God Almighty and may be putting your very soul at great risk. Do you know what blaspheming the Holy Ghost is? and what penalty it carries? If you are not for God you are his enemy -Youve made it clear where you stand in front of thousands of witnesses. This should be a wake-up call for you! Be very careful what you say about killing Gods people, I may be a sinner but Im saved by grace and I belong to Jesus Christ and who are you to say that against me? Who is your father? The father of lies and deciet -do not try to decieve other people and try to lure them away from thier faith in Christ – for it will not be well with thee in the last day. Said this day 11 April 2005
Paul
Heffer,
I am not sure how sincere you are about wanting to know the truth about God.
Evil is in this world not because of God but because God allowed man freedom of choice and man (Adam) decided to rebel against God and listen to Satan. You are correct when you say God (in your case a small “g”) does not always keep from happening what appear to be bad things. God allowed ten of his apostles to be killed by rulers. Christ was crucified under the authority of Pilate although Christ rose from the dead so all of us sinners could have our sins forgiven. Yes, God allowed Hitler to kill 6 million Jews and the physically and mentally deficient (compare to Terri Schiavo), but Hitler eventually met his demise. One of the reasons Hitler got by with killing so many people was except for Frederick Bonhoffer and a few other scattered ministers and priests the church that represents God on earth did not tell Hitler he was violating Scripture.
God will ultimately judge Pilate (investiage what happened to Pilate’s career after he sentenced Christ to death), Hitler, Judge Greer, and the rest of us; but God is very loving and patient.
I do not know the rules of this web site. I was looking for information concerning Pastor William Rice and Judge Greer when I found it. If this web site allows this, here is my e-mail adress: [email protected]
Paul