Gary Farber sums up the abuse cases in Iraq with one word: Appalling.
I don’t think there is much more toadd to that, but knowing me, I will.
One of the reasons I was so quick to errantly state that the Marine Photo Hoax was a hoax when it wasn’t (you know what I mean, I hope- click on the link and make sure you read the comments, because my main post is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG- Ted barlow in particlar had a comment in that thread that was helpful) was because I didn’t want to blieve that our guys could do something like that.
Yes, I understand that we have rotten jerks too- after all, there are scumbags everywhere. My Drill Sergeant was fond of noting that ‘there was a thief in your Sunday School class,’ in his warnings to keep our wall lockers and possessions secured. However, my experiences in the military were such that this sort of cruelty and behavior would be unfathomable- and in particular, all of the guys I knew would at least be intelligent enough to realize how damaging this would be to the mission.
How many GI’s will get killed because some idiot abused innocent Iraqi prisoners (hell- even guilty Iraqi prisoners) and Al Jazeera discusses it every day in the Arab world for 6 months? Not only is this a human rights abuse, but it has broader and more damaging effects on our long-term goals in the region and to the security of our men and women.
Gary Farber
I’ve not seen anything good in “print” yet to link to, but I will as soon as I do.
That is, CBS tonight, on their regular nightly broadcast, did a good followup, with good information on how the Army appears to be handling this entirely correctly and well, having relieved the General, locked up those implicated, continuing the investigation, instituted new procedures and appointing as the new head of the prison the former commander of Guantanamo.
It won’t, unfortunately, make a damn bit of difference to those Iraqis (guilty or not) who suffered, nor to Iraqis in general, who will understandably add this to their list (some legitimate, many not, but that doesn’t matter) of grievances with us.
If you look at the post I made on the USA Gallup poll of Iraqis, by the way, I urge you to look at the details of the poll itself I linked to; it’s got fascinating information on Iraqi views. Much of it very bad for us, some better, in the long run. It’s useful information, in my view.
Anyway, I’m waiting for CBS or someone else to put something good on the web that follows up how the Army is handling this prison situation, so I can link to that as followup.
Gary Farber
Incidentally, my use of “appalling” was simply a modification of General Kimmit’s remark that he “was appalled.”
The Lonewacko Blog
Perhaps this is a job for the patriotic left.
Gary Farber
Be prepared for a stronger emotional reaction, John, if you look at the pictures. I just updated with the following:
Gary Farber
Lonewacko, possibly this is not the moment to be partisan?
Must everything, no matter how terrible, be turned into a partisan issue?
No, don’t say someone started. You started here.
Andrew J. Lazarus
According to kos (figuring you don’t read his site anymore), we outsourced the interrogations [ahem] to private contractors. My view of human nature is that in a situation where people are responsible to no one, not the UCMJ and obviously not the Iraqi judicial system, abuse is simply inevitable.
As I commented at Tacitus, to those of us who recall Vietnam, the military response to this outrage is exemplary, and (I’m a tinch reluctant to say) even a little surprising.
Now, if an officer comes back and testifies frankly to Congress about this matter, and 30 years from now he runs for President as a liberal, what will you say when the Republican slime-and-defend machine calls him and his testimony unpatriotic?
Gary Farber
Discussing something, in some places, without it being turned, instantly, into a debate about American politics is just impossible, isn’t it?
Anyone heard of the words “decent interval”?
Anyone?
JKC
The problem does seem to lie with the “independant contractors” involved. I hope this aspect of this terrible story is adequately investigated.
Scott
Andrew-
If the officer confesses during this hearing that he had personally committed these atrocities, should he be considered fit to hold the presidency?
Andrew J. Lazarus
If incidents like the prison turn out to be widespread (or become so) — and I think the evidence etrongly suggests that in this war that is NOT the case — I’d expect the hypothetical officer to feel a sort of collective guilt for ancillary participation. For instance, if he had taken POWs and turned them over to these authorities, or simply if he failed to take action if he found out what was going on.
I don’t recall the armed forces coming down on anyone in Vietnam the way they are on these criminals. That’s a great credit to the professionalism of the 21st century military.
Slartibartfast
“Anyone heard of the words “decent interval”?”
Apparently not. I don’t think this is a political issue, just that it’ll get (or is getting, more likely) turned into one.
The Lonewacko Blog
“Lonewacko, possibly this is not the moment to be partisan?”
Well, apparently you didn’t understand what I was getting at. Rather than serving as promulgators of propaganda, some members of the left could attempt to explain the mitigating factors vis-a-vis the overall war effort.
Specifically, as posted: “a) this is an isolated incident, b) (most of) those responsible are being prosecuted, c) these actions in no way tarnish our overwhelmingly above-board actions in Iraq, and d) these actions are in no way comparable to Saddam’s actions over many years.”
Many members of the left will attempt to use these pics just like they used the contractors being burned or Pat Tillman. I’m suggesting they attempt to explain this incident to our Muslim friends rather than acting as transmitters of negative propaganda.
Kimmitt
Classic. US soldiers are sexaully torturing Iraqi prisoners, and all you can talk about is how “the left” will use it as propaganda.
Here’s a clue: you’re supposed to at least pretend to give a rat’s ass. Even Bush managed to do that.
stephen
This really shouldn’t have happend in a perfect world. However, I have a real hard time feeling even a little bad about this after veiwing our men roasted alive and hung from a bridge. Look at those photos and then you should feel outrage. If not, they should be opening flights to bagdad soon- Get a ticket- You should be there!