Don’t worry, illegal aliens- Nancy Pelosi has your back:
U.S. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said on Friday police raids on dozens of U.S. Wal-Mart stores in the search for illegal immigrants this week amounted to “terrorizing” workers.
“It instills a great deal of fear in people who are only trying to earn a living and put food on the table for their family,” Pelosi, a California Democrat, told reporters on a Congressional visit to Mexico.
Hundreds of workers at Wal-Mart Stores Inc. locations across the United States were arrested on immigration charges on Thursday in an investigation into contractor cleaning crews.
Pecisely what does the word illegal mean anymore?
Andrew Lazarus
I’m very disappointed in Pelosi, because the real meat of this story is Wal-Mart hiring contractors for $2 a day.
Dana
I’m disappointed in the cheapening of the term “terror[ism]”, too.
Brandon
“Precisely what does the word illegal mean anymore?”
To Pelosi? Ooh, ooh, let me guess: anything the Bush adminstration does?
Harry
Hell John, those are potential Democratic votes being arrested and deported. Geez, they’ll let anyone be a freakin’ congressman.
Andrew Lazarus
Actually, Brandon, Pelosi followed Gephardt down the “We can’t let Bush outflank us on defense so we’ll pretend Bush knows what he’s doing in Iraq” road. I guess they like minority status, what can I say?
Aspasia
I’m no Pelosi fan, but the real crime here is Walmart’s exploitative behavior, not the few hundred bread winners that were trying to mail some cash home.
Cracking down on the immigrants – and not the companies – sends one unmistakeable message to the illegals: Work here at your peril, but under no circumstances come forward.
In other words something like this only makes it that much harder to prosecute businesses that capitalize on the cheap labor.
Dean
Aspasia:
The “real” crime? Sorry.
There were two sets of crimes here. The immigrants are here illegally. Therefore, they’ve violated the law, and should be found and deported.
And SEPARATELY, every bit as real, Wal-Mart was employing known illegals. They should be fined to the full extent of the law as well.
But BOTH are real crimes.
Andrew Lazarus
Dean is right. Having said that, I’ve heard of cases where the former was done to the detriment of the latter (no witnesses left). In some cases Sometimes it would be prudent to cut a deal.
tom scott
I have heard that Wal-mart contracts out for janitorial services. The company they contract with is responsible for interviewing and hiring the janitorial crew.
Kimmitt
I totally agree; the US should not take any responsibility whatsoever for the fact that its endess search for cheap, easily-exploited labor has, over the past decades, led us to engender a culture of non-enforcement of immigration laws, leading to the inevitable result of millions of immigrants living here illegally.
Under no circumstances should the unintended consequences of a law and its enforcement be discussed. This applies across the board, from Federal antidrug policy to tax policies; if people don’t want to get in trouble, they shouldn’t break the law, and the logical response to lawbreaking on a massive scale should not be to reexamine the law, but rather to mete draconian punishments to the few we do capture, so as to make them an example to others.
Aspasia
Absolutely. And may I say that “I’m shocked, absolutely shocked, to find there is gambling here.”
Your winnings, sir.
russ
Pelosi pandering for votes among the illegals is hardly a suprise…
Consider the nonsense when the dim-witted Dems tried to steal the electoral votes in FloriDUH! in 2000…
For more on why the dim-witted Dems are doing this consider reading the contents at the following:”Immigration Remakes Political Landscape
Study Examines Impact on Congressional Apportionment”
http://www.cis.org/circle.html
RW
Um, do I really have to remind everyone that this woman is the LEADER OF THE DEMOCRATS in the house of representatives? Surely the rest of the party apparatus doesn’t feel this way & is on record condemning those comments, right?
BTW, Kimmitt, it’s okay to drop the “wait, how can I spin this so that America is in the wrong, since Bush is in charge” facade for a few minutes to discuss an actual news story.
M. Scott Eiland
“Um, do I really have to remind everyone that this woman is the LEADER OF THE DEMOCRATS in the house of representatives? Surely the rest of the party apparatus doesn’t feel this way & is on record condemning those comments, right?”
As I’ve said before, Harold Ford Jr. must have a lot of laughs at the expense of his fellow House Democrats, who chose this mediocre ideologue over him as Minority Leader last year. If they’re smart, they’ll boot her out soon and stick him in the post–he might actually be able to do the job effectively.
Aspasia
The fact that she’s a dim-witted ideologue hardly changes the fact that the same people complaining bitterly about illegal immigrants are benefitting enormously from their cheap labor.
A bit of integrity and intellectual honesty here, please folks. How is it that a country so intimately involved in the formation of labor rights has become so casually exploitative?
Now it’s one thing to admit the obvious and say we’re benefitting from these practices, in which case we should take the next logical step and legalize their status.
Alternatively we could say we don’t like this at all and attempt a serious effort at cracking down on systemic abuses.
But to make a buck off it, and then to whip up the xenophobic fervor by making it all about the immigrants who are doing the jobs we don’t bother with is, well, shameful to say the least.
David Perron
I wish I had some idea what you’re talking about. I’m against the use of illegals. And I’m damned if I can see how I’m employing any.
The flipside of this argument hold up just as well: If you’re going to have a minimum wage at all, you can’t endorse illegals, because they’re effectively undercutting the minimum wage. Yet it seems that the same people who have a stake in minimum wage laws…you see where this is going, don’t you?
Aspasia
Honestly I don’t. You may not employ illegals in your garden, but that doesn’t mean you’re not employing them each time you enjoy the benefits of discount shopping. Or would you rather scrub the toilets yourself for a ridiculously low wage?
My position is not inconsistent because I don’t “endorse illegals.” I endore legalizing their status to reflect the reality and to at least partially mitigate the discrepancies.
Alternatively, if we’re to follow your view, than we should crack down on this hugely profitable industry and have the integrity to forever abandon the dream of discount underwear.
But let’s not blame Pedro for mailing a hundred bucks a month home, ok?
Andrew Lazarus
David, for your position to be consistent, you would have to oppose not just minimum wage but every worker protection law imaginable. Like: “So you require elementary safety equipment, and since desperate illegals are willing to work without it, you see where this is going, don’t you.”
Tom, as far as Wal-Mart using contractors, that’s as clever and original a way of avoiding responsibility as saying Tony Soprano uses contractors when he orders a hit. Wal-mart execs knew darn well why they could get such good deals from their contractors.
David Perron
Andrew:
I would have to oppose minimum wage? Hmmm…I don’t recall ever having said that. Nor did I take a position. I merely showed how the broad-brush approach fails. Worked, didn’t it? I wasn’t denigrating minimum wage, just a particular argument that says something to the effect of: “How inconsistent! They don’t want illegals and yet use them!”. “They” don’t exist.
Nor am I here to defend Wal-Mart, just to preempt that line of argument.
Aspasia:
You know, some manufacturers of underwear doubtless employ a pedophile or two. Does wearing of their brand name constitute moral support of pedophiles?
And, you have no idea where I shop. You’re free to jump to conclusions, and you seem rather talented in that regard. Have at it.
I don’t blame the workers for anything other than violation of immigration law. If you disagree with the law strongly enough to argue against it, maybe you should look into taking steps to get it changed.
Kimmitt
That said, Pelosi’s comments were goofy. One can raise the ongoing economic and social issues associated with exploitation of illegal labor without sounding like a damn fool.
Aspasia
David, don’t mean to be too testy with my responses, or my speculations, so I’m sorry if that was overbearing.
I’m merely pointing out that our economy as a whole is rather dependent on this cheap labor for tasks most of us have no interest in. This is a part of the business plan nowadays for many profitable companies (see recent Times or Post articles on the matter, particularly as it relates to the sanitation industry).
This is far more systemic, and integral to the business model of companies like wal-mart, than say, hiring a pedophile or two.
So yeah, I think some kind of legal recognition for these people would be a humane gesture, and certainly not at all at odds with our self-interest.
Certainly we shouldn’t be demonizing them.
M. Scott Eiland
“That said, Pelosi’s comments were goofy. One can raise the ongoing economic and social issues associated with exploitation of illegal labor without sounding like a damn fool.”
Yes, clearly “one” can. Just as clearly, she can’t.
Aspasia
Aside from the disingenious use of the word “terrorizing,” which I agree is a degradation of language, what exactly is so horrible about them?
“It instills a great deal of fear in people who are only trying to earn a living and put food on the table for their family.”
That’s an expression of fact.
Dean
Yes, Aspasia, it makes these people worry. Just as every organized crime investigation presumably instills fear in members of the Mafia, who also view themselves as “only trying to earn a living and put food on the table for their family.”
These people have violated the law, you DO see that, right?
Aspasia
You just equated sub-minimal wage workers with mafia criminals.
You DO see that, right?
John Cole
What part of illegal alien and illegal worker are you failing to grasp, Aspasia?
If it does put fear into them, perhaps it might scare them into trying to become legal citizens. Legal immigration is a long proud tradition here in the United States, and I am in favor of it.
Kimmitt
Er, the reason people immigrate illegally is because it is impossible for them to immigrate legally — the quotas for their countries have been filled.
Dean
And the only reason people commit crimes is because they can’t make a living legally, eh?
Yes, Aspasia, I just equated illegal immigrants with other criminals. They may not be as well organized as the Mafia, but they are criminals. You can argue, as Kimmitt does, that they have wonderful extenuating circumstances, but they are still breaking the law.
Steve Woods
Wrote this to Nancy:
I am shocked and outraged that an elected official can make a statement in regards to our U S Customs and Border Protection agent who conducted raids on Wal-Mart stores this past week. You state that this is terrorism. How can this be?
I work at the Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson Itnl’ Airport, and see these fine agents working everyday. I see them protecting our borders. I see them doing what they are paid to do. KEEP OUT THE INDIVIDUALS WHO DO NOT BELONG.
Fine, the employer was wrong in hiring these people, but these people are just as wrong as the employer by not entering this country LEGALLY! I think the illegal workers are terrorizing me, with thier continued use of MediCal and other state/federal program that I, am individual who was born in California, legally, under parents who where also born here in the US legally, whose grandparents were also born here legally,etc. I do not goto Mexico or Chile, or Peru and ask those governments for hand out. Why do the illegals get hand outs? I need health care too. But I pay for it!
How dare you say the fine people in U S Customs and Border Protection terrorized these illegals. They were doing their job. Go get em all I say. Come here legally. You were born in another country other than the USA, and you want to come in to the USA? DO IT LEGALLY! Get a VISA.
Andrew Lazarus
I don’t believe an illegal immigrant is technically a “criminal”, even though his entry into the country was unlawful. That’s why we can expel them without a full-blown trial. If an illegal alien gets busted for jaywalking, he has the same rights to a trial as a citizen.
I still hope Walmart gets what they deserve. Once the ADAs talk jail time to the contractors, they’ll be turning over the tapes they made.
Kimmitt
I am merely making clear that cracking down on illegal immigration will not have the result of producing more legal immigration, as the latter is already fully enabled.
David Perron
I don’t know enough to even make a suggestion as to what the right course is. However, it’s a given that these people are unauthorized visitors. Either the law needs to change or they need to leave. I don’t see how anyone can make an argument that they should stay in violation of the law.
Now, should the law change? How? Once they are here legally, do we now have to crack down on minimum-wage laws? Collection of payroll taxes?
I can see how reaping payroll taxes off of newly legal aliens might be a good thing. But I see a transfer of pain from immigration to…who, Labor? in the matter of minimum-wage enforcement.
Or are our labor laws too good for non-citizens?
Andrew Lazarus
Many illegal immigrants, although not Wal-mart’s, are paying taxes. They often use a legal relative’s SSN. I’ve often thought that companies who violated obvious tax and safety laws (which is to me prima facie proof they knew their employees were illegals who wouldn’t complain) should have their fines trebled.
ABSOLUTELY!!