Some guy living in a mansion in Topeka making $74,999 a year
2.
Rarely Posts
I don’t know. If the object is to simulate the economy the best people to give it to are those that are going to run right out and spend it. Unfair, perhaps, but why give it to someone who’s not going to spend it immediately?
3.
SenderC
As ABBA would say:
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich mans world
Rebates would go to people earning below a certain income cap, likely individuals earning $75,000 or less and couples with incomes of $150,000 or less.
Just remember that the people above these limits are the people Democrats like to refer to as “the rich”.
Such as “Bush’s tax cuts for the rich”.
Greedy SOB’s deserve no sympathy from a progressive.
5.
D. Mason
Thanks John, I don’t read Americablog because of Aravosis’s Red State like tendency to ban anyone who disagrees but it’s good to know he still has his little melt downs from time to time. That loser sure is good for a few laughs every now and again and I appreciate you bringing teh funny here.
6.
Carrie
The hell?
I do get the importance of cost of living, but people who live in Manhattan in that 300 square foot apartment could instead be living out of the city and taking the train in. High cost of living areas are usually surrounded by low(er) cost of living areas. If you love where you live so much that you’re willing to pay $2k a month for a 1 bedroom in DC, then that’s your choice. At $75k a year you could soak the costs of commute, especially considering that both NYC and DC have pretty decent transit systems.
This whole stimulus package is stupid, but I’m not feeling all that bad for the individuals who are making $75k a year.
7.
Zifnab
Pelosi, D-Calif., agreed to drop increases in food stamp and unemployment benefits during a Wednesday meeting in exchange for gaining rebates of at least $300 for almost everyone earning a paycheck, including low-income earners who make too little to pay income taxes.
So, when the recession hits and everyone loses their jobs… they’re still fucked. I hope you can stretch that $300 really far. Better start stocking up on that Ramen.
Families with children would receive an additional $300 per child, subject to an overall cap of perhaps $1,200, according to a senior House aide who outlined the deal on condition of anonymity in advance of formal adoption of the whole package. Rebates would go to people earning below a certain income cap, likely individuals earning $75,000 or less and couples with incomes of $150,000 or less.
Ok, so to be fair, $75k is the top of the line for the 25% tax bracket. It’s not like they pulled the number out of their asses. However, I am curious what
tax rebates of $300 to $1,200 per family and business tax cuts to jolt the slumping economy
this entails. The McPain / Mittens plan, if I recall correctly, involved dropping Corporate Taxes at the expense of private tax cuts. So are they cutting food stamps, unemployment, and anyone over $75k to give Exxon / Microsoft / Halliburton yet another multi-billion dollar check? That doesn’t sound like economic stimulus to me.
Personally, I think this whole “economic stimulus” package is bunk anyway. Might as well take a mop to Monsoon Season. You can’t just throw money at a recession to make it go away. Why do we make this mistake every frak’n economic cycle?
I wish I were as rich as the Democrats thought I was :) Stupid high costs of living.
OTOH, I don’t really need it, so I’m not going to shed too many tears.
9.
Dug Jay
The proposals as he summarized them are in line with what the business media are also reporting. It’s important to note that this plan has been conceptually agreed to only in the House among Dems and Reps. The Senate may have different ideas. On balance,the House plan would appear to put the focus on those who likely most need help and therefore those who will pump the funds back into the economy right away, which I thought was a primary objective of the so-called stimulus plan.
10.
A Different Matt
Shorter America blog:
“Congress wants to redistribute our money to everyone but a select group of people living in NYC, S.F., or D.C. making $75k to 200k/year.”
11.
Teak111
Wife and I make less then the 150k, so we might get a check, but we don’t need it. And while SD isn’t Sf or NYC, 150K is a lot of jack for a couple and I doubt very much they need either. What I would rather see instead of a check is a reduction on the national debt. But that isn’t sound-bitable or easy. Frankly, I more pissed the Dems are caving on the Fisa bill and telco immunity. Now that is something to rant about.
12.
LITBMueller
I can tell y’all exactly what my wife & I will do with our $1,2000 check – pay down one of our credit card bills!
And I’m willing to bet the vast majority of Americans will either do that, or make a mortgage payment.
So, this is really a Bank Stimulus Plan…on top of all the bank stimulating they’ve already done. Brilliant! I’m gonna write the IRS and ask them to mail our check directly Chase Bank so I can save on the postage…
Yeah this really makes me wish I were married already. Then we’d qualify for the whole check :)
Oh well.
14.
Jay B.
Avarosis is a whiny douchenozzle. He’s right more often than not on political matters, but his blind spots are huge and completely annoying. The “Democrats care only about the POOR*” is particularly tone-deaf and priceless, as is his utterly hypocritical stance that while all matters Gay are to be studied for any sign of disrespect, fuck the Indians who happened to be appalled at Chief Whatshisnuts — the white kid who whoops around at Illini games — they shouldn’t be so sensitive.
*As defined by me the single, gay, whiny douchenozzle making over the cutoff.
15.
Dennis - SGMM
Forget that fact that you live in NYC or DC or San Francisco, where prices from property to food are outrageous.
If you’re living in one of those places then a measly few hundred bucks isn’t going to do you much good anyway – is it? Where should the cutoff be if not where it is?
I’m sure that Bill Gates and Britney were already making plans for their rebate checks.
16.
Punchy
Oh STFU, Aravosis. Ameriblog is full of whiny-ass bitches.
The Republicans ONLY want to help the rich, and the Democrats ONLY want to help the poor. Screw everybody else. I am so sick of these people.
Somebody making $75K needs $300? Are you fucking kidding me? Should be more like $900 to those undie $25K and nothing for the rest. Unfucking real that he has the stones to claim his $75K aint cutting it, and dont sell me that “costs higher in NY” shit. Move the fuck elsewhere. LIke Iowa. Heard the place rocks.
17.
Pooh
Republicans only care about the rich. Democrats only care about the poor. OBVIOUSLY, they are equally bad because of this. Wait, what?
18.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Are you fucking kidding me? This is a joke, right?
$75,000 or more a year, no check for you.
ok… lets check this here…
1.) My W2 is 70K. I’m FUCKING RICH.
2.) I live in Manhattan, in Chelsea. I’m a snob. I’m STILL FUCKING RICH
3.) I’m getting bonus in a bit, which will likely kick me just above the ceiling. I’m GLAD the poor are getting my check. I DON’T NEED IT.
living in NYC making $75,001 out of a 300 sq ft studio apartment will get nothing.
if you’re poor at 75K minus 300 sq.ft, even in Manhattan, you’re an idiot or very sloppy with your money.
19.
The Moar You Know
What? When did they legalize narcotics?
I’ve been lurking here for a while, but finally had to speak up. As John put it, “I read this shit so you don’t have to”. I read it. I still think it’s a spoof.
I don’t make nearly $75k a year, but would happily forgo this “rebate” (I don’t need it; it would be nice but I have food on my table) in favor of some sane economic policy, which I don’t see happening anytime soon. Move that ceiling down to $30k a year and help some folks that could REALLY use the money, for Crissakes.
20.
Zifnab
If youâre living in one of those places then a measly few hundred bucks isnât going to do you much good anyway â is it? Where should the cutoff be if not where it is?
Yeah, that’s kinda what I was thinking. This shouldn’t really bother those people making more than $75,500 since the amount of money they lose from stimulus, they make up with a bigger pay check.
It’s the poor shlubs in the $75,000 – $75,500 range that get stuck. And to them I say, life’s a bitch and we apologize.
I can tell yâall exactly what my wife & I will do with our $1,200 check â pay down one of our credit card bills!
Hey, every penny you pay now is a penny they can’t charge you 25% interest on a month later. And now that your credit card is $1200 farther away from its credit limit, you have the buying power to go out and buy more stuff. Not that this is advisable…
But you can’t seriously blame Congress for the existence and wide-spread use of credit cards, now can you? I’ve got $0 credit card debt. Not sure what I’m going to do with my free money. Probably stick it in my bank account and sit on it, like I do with the rest of my disposable income. Oh noes! I just gave the banks more money!
:p Seriously, if you’ve got a better idea (and I can’t imagine you can do substantially worse), let’s hear it. But free money is free money. I don’t see how “paying off a credit card” or “paying my mortgage” is such an awful thing that you’d poo-poo it. Beats getting repo’d or tossed out on the street.
The Republicans ONLY want to help the rich, and the Democrats ONLY want to help the poor. Screw everybody else. I am so sick of these people.
Boo-fucking-hoo!
Shorter America blog: âCongress wants to redistribute our money to everyone but a select group of people living in NYC, S.F., or D.C. making $75k to 200k/year.â
Even shorter Americablog: Boo hoo. Poor me, I don’t get any so no one else should get any.
Personally, I believe this whole stimulus package is a load of shit. Its an election year so only a few people will be helped. Ahem. Those running for office. But better the money get directly into to the hands of the people than filtered through the local mafia state legislators.
Hey things could be a whole lot worse! The former Cheerleader could still be Pres… oops, never mind.
23.
Larv
Yeah, Aravosis is an idiot. He doesn’t seem to realize that it’s a stimulus plan, not a fairness plan. To stimulate the economy you give money to those most likely to spend it, i.e. the poor. You give somebody making 100K a year that money, and it’ll probably go into their bank account or pay off a bill. That won’t really do much for consumer spending, which is sorta the whole point. What a WATB he is.
24.
Punchy
Might as well take a mop to Monsoon Season.
Stealin’ this. Pithy, succinct, alliterative.
Anyone see RAMBO vs. TEXAS RANGER!
Yes, the phony make-believe POW is now endorsing the real-life POW.
No word on who the Ghost of Charles Bronson is backing.
25.
Bubblegum Tate
I was sure it wasn’t a spoof, but I was a bit unclear un what his underlying point was. I believe it was: “I want a fucking check!” I could be wrong, though.
I live in the SF Bay Area, and I make
26.
Fe E
Wow, I’d never realized what a tool Aravosis is. I think I’ve heard him comment on “Gay issues” but not too much else.
Whining about being poor at 75k, is well, shocking.
Dude, you just made “the list.”
27.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Oh STFU, Aravosis. Ameriblog is full of whiny-ass bitches.
…
Somebody making $75K needs $300? Are you fucking kidding me?
I know, doesn’t it sound like when he heard “stimulus” he went out and bought a PS3, or a kegerator… and now he’s finding out that the gov’t changed it’s mind.
I still cannot figure out how you make more than 75K and complain about money. I can only think of:
1.) You don’t use condoms. Idiot.
2.) You went to NYU off-scholarship, on-loan. Idiot.
2a.) Paid by credit-card. Holy shit, you’re an idiot.
3.) You went short crude oil sometime in the past 3 years? Idiot.
4.) You spent all your money campaigning for Ron Paul. Idiot.
4a.) Did I say Ron Paul? I mean Dennis Kucinich. Good god, man, you’re an idiot.
5.) You buy a new car every year like it’s 1956. Idiot.
28.
4tehlulz
That whole comments thread is epic lulz. It’s about 90% people calling John a whiny bitch and 10% coming up with gems like this one:
I just did a quick online search for apartments in Boston and Omaha. All I looked for was a two-bedroom apartment n the city center.
In Boston, the available rents ranged from $2,100 a month to $5,500 a month. And I’m guessing, very few people here would want to live in the $2,100 units (I speak from experience).
If you can afford to live in Back Bay, you don’t need the $300, and you sure as hell aren’t making $75,000.
29.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Might as well take a mop to Monsoon Season.
Stealinâ this. Pithy, succinct, alliterative.
I second the blatant theft.
Those some deep words you got there, Ziffy.
30.
John S.
Just remember that the people above these limits are the people Democrats like to refer to as âthe richâ.
Such as âBushâs tax cuts for the richâ.
The first data to document the effect of President Bush’s tax cuts for investment income show that they have significantly lowered the tax burden on the richest Americans, reducing taxes on incomes of more than $10 million by an average of about $500,000.
I know you’re little more than a partisan hack, but even you can’t claim that $75,000 = $10 million.
WASHINGTON – Congressional leaders announced a deal with the White House Thursday on an economic stimulus package that would give most tax filers refunds of $600 to $1,200, and more if they have children.
The rant and the facts are not congruous. Color me surprised.
33.
Scotty
I might be wrong, but I believe that most people will spend their stimulus check on bills or other necessities. Mine will be going to my county/town tax which has gone through the roof in the last few years.
34.
Dennis - SGMM
Now for Phase II, which is the candidates all explaining what they would have done to stimulate us:
Dems: I would have repealed the Bush tax cuts, rebated $1200 per child, retrained laid off workers, and given everyone a pony.
Republicans: I would have made The President’s tax cuts permanent to restore faith in the economy, repealed the Death Tax, cut the Capital Gains rate to 2% and, oh yes, given everyone a pony.
35.
Face
HERE’S the funny:
They’re gunna send these checks in the next few weeks. How many people do you think will simply take this $$ and turn right around and use it to pay their Federal taxes?
/waving arm in air like Arnold Horshack
So the gov’t undertakes this massive project, probably at a ridiculous cost, to identify the eligible, spend a kajillion to have them printed and mailed to 117 million homes, only to have the money sent right back a week later by tax filers.
@Dennis – SGMM: I can’t tell you how many times I read your posts and laugh out loud because you have expressed my thoughts. Cheers!
… give everyone a pony.
Both of my Kindergartners will be very happy to know what they are getting for Christmas this year. Its a win-win! Until, we have to pay for it, of course.
Don’t worry. Be happy. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
37.
AkaDad
With my tax rebate, I’m going to buy a drill, some Vaseline, and a Tickle Me Elmo.
38.
4tehlulz
So the govât undertakes this massive project, probably at a ridiculous cost, to identify the eligible, spend a kajillion to have them printed and mailed to 117 million homes, only to have the money sent right back a week later by tax filers.
Oh shi-. I didn’t even think of that. One may excused for thinking that it was on purpose.
39.
Zifnab
HEREâS the funny:
Theyâre gunna send these checks in the next few weeks. How many people do you think will simply take this $$ and turn right around and use it to pay their Federal taxes?
Wait, I just assumed this was going to be added on to this year’s tax refund? Please, please, please tell me our government isn’t this retarded. Please?
40.
Dr. Squid
Wonder how many more people he’ll banninate from his site after that one.
41.
Bombadil
With my tax rebate, Iâm going to buy a drill, some Vaseline, and a Tickle Me Elmo.
Now that’s what I call a stimulus package!
42.
Doubting Thomas
This shouldn’t be too surprising. He threw the Transgendered community under the bus with the whole ENDA mess. He was a whiny man then, and he’s a whiny man now.
I stopped reading AmericaBlog when it was apparent they used the same tactics as RedState and LGF. We gay people already have enough stereotypes floating around about us without John A. confirming them for all the world!
A shame, but there are much better “gay” themed blogs out there–Pam’s House Blend and Firedoglake to name a couple (even though Firedoglake is pretty mainstream now).
I dunno ’bout yous guys, but I’d love to be struggling at $75,000 a year. Even in NYC or DC.
44.
4tehlulz
Iâd love to be struggling at $75,000 a year.
Me too. In fact, if my family was struggling at $150K/year, I would be willing to give up my rebate.
45.
LITBMueller
:p Seriously, if youâve got a better idea (and I canât imagine you can do substantially worse), letâs hear it. But free money is free money. I donât see how âpaying off a credit cardâ or âpaying my mortgageâ is such an awful thing that youâd poo-poo it. Beats getting repoâd or tossed out on the street.
Well, I’m no economist, Zifnab, but there’s definitely no “free money.” I was pointing out that this doesn’t seem like much of an “economic stimulus” as much as a “bank stimulus” plan, since the biggest problem for the economy right now is debt – risky big mortgages, chronic credit card debt, big car loans for all the Hummers. Add to that the creeping inflation spurred on by high gas prices. Plus, we won’t even get the damn checks until June, which may be too late to do much of anything.
My “better idea” (and, again, I’m no economist) would have been to deal with the subprime crisis (which everyone knew was coming) BEFORE it hit. Oh well!!! In the end, aren’t we just robbing Peter to pay Paul since we’re spending billions per month in Iraq and we’d have to borrow the damn money from China? We’re pretty much fucked. That’s my professional non-economist opinion! :)
46.
The Other Steve
Aravosis is right. The cut off basically means the middle class is out of luck on this one.
The comments thus far seem to show people completely out of touch with America. Yes, if you are making $100k/year you probably could find plenty of ways to cut back on spending. But that’s not really the point is it? If everybody cut back on spending, we’d certainly go into a recession. And a large number of those going into default on their mortgage are up in that bracket.
That’s not to say we should encourage people to spend at current levels, I think we need to gradually change our priorities as a nation.
But Aravosis is certainly right, that if you are going for political theatre they basically just told the middle class to fuck off, we don’t want your votes because you are too rich.
no check for us. oh well, guess we’ll have to find a way to get by without those 25 extra bottles of Laphroiag next year.
48.
Larv
But Aravosis is certainly right, that if you are going for political theatre they basically just told the middle class to fuck off, we donât want your votes because you are too rich.
Wait, is this a stimulus plan or a vote-buying plan?
49.
Krista
jack fate Says:
I dunno âbout yous guys, but Iâd love to be struggling at $75,000 a year. Even in NYC or DC.
No kidding. I can’t even relate to the idea of buying a car that nobody else has ever owned. Shit, even a large percentage of my clothes are second-hand. With the house we’re building, we’re contracting it ourselves, and doing all of our own finish work, to try to trim some pennies.
But, with a lot of people, the more you make, the more you spend. A friend of my sister’s, who makes a very comfortable salary, referred to manicures, pedicures, salon highlights and massages as “necessities”. I guess when you get used to being able to afford those things, you can’t imagine life without them.
Still made me want to bitch-slap her, though.
50.
Brachiator
The part that I really loved was this: That’s because far too often the Democrats don’t give a damn about anybody who isn’t a minority or starving to death (both valid causes to be sure, but are they the ONLY causes out there?).
From this, I presume that the ranter believes that only single white men make more than $75K.
The first data to document the effect of President Bushâs tax cuts for investment income show that they have significantly lowered the tax burden on the richest Americans, reducing taxes on incomes of more than $10 million by an average of about $500,000.
I know youâre little more than a partisan hack, but even you canât claim that $75,000 = $10 million.
As I noted in another thread, no matter how you slice it, some of this rebate stuff is just smoke and mirrors. As with the last âtax rebate,â the middle class rubes are fooled into thinking that they have miraculously got either a tax cut or their âown money backâ while Dubya and his cronies push through real, more substantial and outrageous tax cuts for the wealthy, and those who have a big slice of their income from investments and capital gains.
Hereâs a fun example. Letâs take that “median income” family of 4 with an income of $50,000.
$50,000 in income all from wages. Tax after child tax credit is $1076.
$50,000 in income all from capital gains. Tax after child tax credit is ZERO.
Hereâs another. Married couple, just starting out, no kids.
$50,000 in income all from wages. Tax is $4096.
$50,000 in income all from capital gains. Tax is $1625.
So at almost any income level, if your dough comes primarily from investment income, you’re doing better than anybody whose income is based on wages.
But of course, the wealthy are busy âcreating jobsâ with their windfalls. That is, when they are not destroying the credit markets and watching thousands lose their jobs and homes as collateral damage from the sub prime mess. Meanwhile, Dubya chortles âEnjoy that $800. Suckers!â
It is also interesting to note that apparently Republicans think that people getting unemployment benefits are lazy bums who don’t want to work. And after all the breaks that business has received in previous Bush tax plans, I really am not sure what the point is of the negotiation over even more breaks. After all, if people don’t have enough income to allow them to buy what businesses are selling, nobody ends up getting much of a stimulus.
The NY Times has a good article on the status of this:
As usual, the Democrats in the House are caving in to GOP preferences.
51.
Dennis - SGMM
Thanks, GP!
52.
Tlaloc
Obviously this is a give away to the prolife crowd. Notice how the more kids you have the larger your rebate is?
I’m outraged the dems would shill for the prolifers like that.
[/sarcasm]
53.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
The comments thus far seem to show people completely out of touch with America. Yes, if you are making $100k/year you probably could find plenty of ways to cut back on spending. But thatâs not really the point is it? If everybody cut back on spending, weâd certainly go into a recession.
It’s very much so the idea. The primary idea is to live while staying the fuck within your means. Don’t go into debt. Don’t buy the house that’s too large. Stop having kids. Send the kids to state school. Destroy your credit cards. Get rid of the SUV and get a Civic.
Middle-class America is mired in quicksand because it’s sloppy. By definition, “middle-class” is comprised of people capable of grinding out a workable life. If they don’t, it’s because they’re reckless.
But Aravosis is certainly right, that if you are going for political theatre they basically just told the middle class to fuck off
$75,000 single/$150,000 is just middle class now?
Wow, regular Wal-Mart customers just got kicked into shitstain-class, huh?
we donât want your votes because you are too rich.
No, they just made a call at the edge of the coming storm. If they’re looking for votes, their priorities are out of order.
54.
Face
Plus, we wonât even get the damn checks until June, which may be too late to do much of anything.
June, eh? I was under the impression we were gettin them in weeks. I stand corrected.
55.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
no check for us. oh well, guess weâll have to find a way to get by without those 25 extra bottles of Laphroiag next year.
No, rehab costs too much money. I hear it’s like $4 for bus fare. Do you know how much that is? That’s like 2 forties of High Life.
I’ll have to go back to the stand-by 100 bottles of Wild Turkey.
56.
Tim (the other one)
So, it’s pay off some credit card debt. Put out a fire (bills) that’s immediately in front of you. Or say f*** it, and go buy a “toy”.
“$75,000 single/$150,000 is just middle class now?”
In a large city, yes $75k is middle class these days. It’s hard to think of people who can’t afford a mortgage for a small home as being rich.
58.
Dennis - SGMM
Plus, we wonât even get the damn checks until June, which may be too late to do much of anything.
NPR just quoted an IRS spokesdouche as saying that it would be June, at the earliest. Methinks maybe a couple of months later so that the Repub candidate can tout how his party saved the economy – now make them tax cuts permanent, dammit!.
59.
wasabi gasp
This whole plan is just so embarrassingly stupid.
My little fuck-yoo fantasy is that everybody takes their happy check and buys a one-way ticket out of Dodge.
BTW, it’s not true that $75,001 gets nothing apparently.
The rebates would phase out gradually for individuals whose income exceeds $75,000 and couples with incomes above $150,000, aides said. Individuals with incomes up to $87,000 and couples up to $174,000 would get partial rebates.
In a large city, yes $75k is middle class these days.
Yeeeeeah, the economic plan will be functioning outside large cities. I would consider a New York an exception, considering there will be plenty of work over here.
Itâs hard to think of people who canât afford a mortgage for a small home as being rich.
Well, the housing market is the exception we’re dealing with at this point, innit? You should keep it from warping your perception.
You can be middle class in an apartment.
62.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
You can be middle class rich in an apartment.
I need an editor, but he’d kill me before the end of the day.
63.
Dr. Squid
So what you’re saying is that not only is Aravosis a whiny turd, but he’s also too lazy to fact-check?
I’m guessing he’s going to get those extra bottles of Laphroiag by sleeping with Katherine Harris.
64.
The Other Steve
In a large city, yes $75k is middle class these days. Itâs hard to think of people who canât afford a mortgage for a small home as being rich.
I live in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. $75k/150k places you smack dab in the middle of middle class. Yeah, it’s probably about the median, so half the middle class will get something, but the other half is fucked.
It’s just appallingly stupid to call people in this income range RICH. Completely utterly stupid.
65.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
BTW, itâs not true that $75,001 gets nothing apparently.
Aravosis is out panhandling, so he asked me to fill in.
Aravosis: But I plan on becoming a billionaire within the next 2 days, after my brilliant invention (a feather duster with a built-in mp3 player) take-off. Any day now.
I demand the government extend this to billionaires. I can’t be expected to lose $600 while those dirt poor people making $65K are all driving Lamborghinis! That’s social injustice!!
66.
Dennis - SGMM
Individuals with incomes up to $87,000 and couples up to $174,000 would get partial rebates.
Thank heavens for that. Now we’ll be spared the sight of people in Lexus SUV’s scouting for aluminum cans and deposit bottles.
“Well, the housing market is the exception weâre dealing with at this point, innit? You should keep it from warping your perception.
You can be middle class in an apartment.”
I guess when I think “rich,” I think owning yachts and luxury cars and flying first class and things like that.
75k is a nice living, don’t get me wrong, but even with my pre-bubble mortgage for a non-impressive home, money can get tight at times.
…then again, I’m recovering from a bunch of crises last year (new roof on the house, hospitalization, a bunch of things all breaking in the middle of it) so maybe I’ll feel richer when all of this exciting debt is finally paid off.
68.
Zifnab
The comments thus far seem to show people completely out of touch with America. Yes, if you are making $100k/year you probably could find plenty of ways to cut back on spending. But thatâs not really the point is it? If everybody cut back on spending, weâd certainly go into a recession. And a large number of those going into default on their mortgage are up in that bracket.
If I was making $100k/year, I wouldn’t need your pissant $300 check. You’ve got people making minimum wage, bringing home $10k/year, and just scraping by. These are the people who stimulate your economy. Even in New York or DC, where making $40k is chicken scratch, who are you fooling with a $1200 stimulus check? Talk about taking a knife to a gun fight. Oh horray! I made rent this month. Now I’ve got to figure out how I’m going to do it next month.
Unemployment and food stamps – the sort of benefits that target people who desperately need help – are off the table and we hear bitching about the guy making $75k + a dollar? What about the guy making $0k? You think he could use some extra economic stimulus? I’m betting he’s not going to stuff the money in his mattress.
And the best part, the hands-down absolutely fantastic part, is how we’ve totally glossed over the business tax cuts. Why the hell are we giving out more business tax cuts? Why do businesses need this money all of a sudden? Its a housing slump. Who’s getting foreclosed on? Wallie or Walmart? Who’s going to lose his job? Jay or JD Edwards?
God damn fucking Democrats.
69.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Iâm guessing heâs going to get those extra bottles of Laphroiag by sleeping with Katherine Harris
Holy shit, Katherine Harris’s uterus bears bottles of Laphroiag?!! NO WONDER people liked her enough to vote with her.
John Cole is probably ordering a flight down there as we speak. I hope he remember to pack some Xanax. He’ll need it.
70.
Face
$75k/150k places you smack dab in the middle of middle class.
I live in the DC area, in one of the most expensive counties of the region — if not the nation. I can sympathize with someone who says it is expensive to live here. I can even see that $75,000/year is not Rockefeller money around here. However, if you at that income are bitching that you’re not getting a $300 or $600 check that wasn’t even in the realm of possibility a week ago, you need to smack yourself upside the head.
John Aravosis, if you need that $600 that badly, fire your financial manager. Obviously he hasn’t been working out to well for you.
72.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
If I was making $100k/year, I wouldnât need your pissant $300 check.
THANK YOU.
I’m guaranteed 70K. I still don’t need it. I’ve paid parking ticket more expensive than $300.
/high-fives Zifnab
Youâve got people making minimum wage, bringing home $10k/year, and just scraping by. These are the people who stimulate your economy. Even in New York or DC, where making $40k is chicken scratch, who are you fooling with a $1200 stimulus check? Talk about taking a knife to a gun fight. Oh horray! I made rent this month. Now Iâve got to figure out how Iâm going to do it next month.
HFT (Highlighted For Truth).
Learn it well.
73.
The Other Steve
Wait, is this a stimulus plan or a vote-buying plan?
Guys, I want to go on the record here and assert my belief that the article was “spoof.” Even if the author did have misgivings about the pending legislation, it wasn’t anything like what he was stating overtly.
What I’m a little surprised about really is that a lot of you guys here aren’t openly acknowledging it was a spoof.
I can understand why you wouldn’t bother if it was totally obvious it was a spoof… but, I’m not sure if I would consider it THAT obvious.
the Democrats don’t give a damn about anybody who isn’t a minority or starving to death
Well, thanks to the GOP, that may end up being just about all of us.
Thanks, George. Really, heckuva job.
77.
Ed Drone
no check for us. oh well, guess weâll have to find a way to get by without those 25 extra bottles of Laphroiag next year.
Hmmm… the ‘stimulus’ payoff is $300, right? So $300/25 is $12. Where the hell do you get Laphroig at $12 a bottle? At that price, I’ll take 50 bottles, please, and then sell them for $20 and keep the profits. Even if you use the $600 figure someone floated above, it comes out to $12 a bottle, which is still way cheaper than I see it on the shelves around here.
For the sake of truthiness, I have to say I like McCallan’s and Knockando better, anyway. But those don’t sell for under $25 even on sale, either.
Wow. I think I live in the wrong place.
As for the stimulus, and whether we’ll be paying off the banks or repaying the IRS, without it, we’d still be paying, eh?
Ed
78.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
a lot of you guys here arenât openly acknowledging it was a spoof.
I don’t think it’s a spoof. I think it’s a 19 year old with a computer that doesn’t know what kind of pain is about to befall the market. (To be honest, I don’t think even I realize it).
Besides, he’s like
OH NOES, $75000+ gets no money!
Fucking poor people getting money!
Don’t they know rich people want that money, too?
(Rich people are those that make 75000 or more)
Republicans only care about rich people.
Fucking rich people!
Fucking Republicans caring about rich people!
Fucking Democrats caring about poor people!
I’d love to believe it was a spoof, but of what? A schizophrenic? The only consistent thing I found is: he thinks he deserves money.
79.
buford puser
Reality check from NYC: I make just over $80,000, my wife makes not much running a consulting biz from home, we have a child who attends public school.
We rent in a small one bedroom in a working-class neighborhood outside Manhattan. I ride a bicycle everywhere, my wife drives a used SUV that cost us a bit under $4 grand. We could never conceivably afford to own property in the city.
We eat & pay our bills, it’s true, but we sure don’t live high on the hog.
I work with genuinely poor folks & am not arguing that I am poor (although I would spend any rebate immediately), & perhaps I should not have gotten an expensive education or had a kid, but the cost of living in big rich cities is a real issue.
Of course we could move, but as they say, when you leave the city, you ain’t going nowhere; we wouldn’t trade our modest lifestyle for more material things somewhere less psychically rewarding.
80.
The Other Steve
If I was making $100k/year, I wouldnât need your pissant $300 check.
Maybe not, but it sure would help.
Is this about economic stimulus, or are you just trying to buy the votes of the poor?
81.
Haltelcere
20 years ago I would have had a particular problem with this tax rebate. Back then a large portion of the people who made $3000 and didn’t pay taxes were high school kids who were forced to get summer jobs for “character building”.
But now all those kids are too busy playing video games to have summer jobs, and the rebate check will go more into the pockets of people working their second or third minimum-wage job who are just trying to get ahead.
82.
Nylund
People who think that its hard to live in NYC with ONLY $75, are stupid douchebags who think its their god-given right to have a doorman and elevator and to eat organic mango chutneys every night. Do what the rest of us do. Live within our means. I lived in NYC for years while making 30-40k. That was tough at times, but doable, and I was in Manhattan.
And seriously, why does a BLOGGER, who works from home, NEED to live in an expensive city center for any reason other than vanity? If you can’t afford your downtown condo life, don’t expect others to help you out. Move to a place you can afford dumb ass. You don’t “deserve” the excitement of the city more than anyone else.
“Oh, its so unfair that poor people are starving and getting money and no one is paying for my Orchid’s plant food! its so unfair!! Poor people should pay for my orchids! Won’t anyone think of my orchids??! Don’t people know how expensive my personally chosen lifestyle is? I’m so depressed I’m going to go buy some organic imported micro-brew for $6 a bottle and maybe a nice pate and book another flight to France.”
Cry me a river.
83.
The Other Steve
Iâd love to believe it was a spoof, but of what? A schizophrenic? The only consistent thing I found is: he thinks he deserves money.
Wouldn’t it be nice if you had a political party that cared about everybody? Rich or poor, it didn’t matter.
Instead both sides get fucked over.
84.
The Other Steve
And seriously, why does a BLOGGER, who works from home, NEED to live in an expensive city center for any reason other than vanity? If you canât afford your downtown condo life, donât expect others to help you out. Move to a place you can afford dumb ass. You donât âdeserveâ the excitement of the city more than anyone else.
None of this is helping your argument.
Seriously, you guys sound like Michelle Malkin going off about counter tops.
85.
Dennis - SGMM
And this turkey hasn’t gone to the Senate yet. Harry Reid is sending out for some industrial-strength kneepads as we speak.
86.
Alan
After the last seven years, I’m surprised we need more stimulus. IMO, the country needs to tighten its belt and quit inflating bubble after bubble after bubble.
People who think that its hard to live in NYC with ONLY $75, are stupid douchebags who think its their god-given right to have a doorman and elevator and to eat organic mango chutneys every night. Do what the rest of us do. Live in the subway.
Also to be known as the GWBush Public Housing Tubes.
Hmmm⊠the âstimulusâ payoff is $300, right? So $300/25 is $12. Where the hell do you get Laphroig at $12 a bottle?
the checks are $600 per person, $1200 per couple. $1200 / 25 = $48. that’s about what it cost the last time i bought a bottle here in NC. it’s cheaper in other states.
89.
Grand Moff Texan
And don’t think this is only about a stupid $300.
Once again, legal gay marriage (and adoption) would change Aravosis’ perspective on things.
Might even make him a Republican again.
.
90.
Tsulagi
Obviously this is a give away to the prolife crowd. Notice how the more kids you have the larger your rebate is?
Iâm outraged the dems would shill for the prolifers like that.
Naw, not so.
Everyone knows Dems getting the checks will rush out to buy abortions. Theyâre already working hard to get knocked up in eager anticipation.
Straight Pubs (vanishing demographic) with pregnant wives are now sneaking up behind them to scare them hoping to induce early labor. In case thereâs a cutoff date. They just know a tax cut/rebate will make them rich.
Healthcare wins again.
91.
Dennis - SGMM
Also to be known as the GWBush Public Housing Tubes.
Under the Bush administration, and under that of whoever follows him for two or three administrations, sleeping in the subways and under bridges shall be known as “Found Housing” rather than the depressing “Homelessness.”
The following are facts about persons defined as “poor” by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:
â Forty-six percent of all poor households own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and porch or patio.
â Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
â Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
â The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens and other European cities. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
â Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
â Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television. Over half own two or more color televisions.
â Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
â Seventy-three percent own a microwave oven, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.
Overall, the typical American defined as poor by the government has a car, air conditioning, a refrigerator, a stove, a clothes washer and dryer, and a microwave. He has two color televisions, cable or satellite TV reception, a VCR or DVD player, and a stereo. He is able to obtain medical care. His home is in good repair and is not overcrowded. By his own report, his family isn’t hungry, and he had sufficient funds in the past year to meet his family’s essential needs. While this individual’s life is not opulent, it is equally far from the popular images of dire poverty conveyed by the press, activists and politicians.
Even better news is that remaining poverty can readily be reduced, especially among children. Child poverty in the U.S. is caused largely by low levels of parental work and by the absence of fathers from the home. While work and two-parent families are the surest ladders out of poverty, the welfare system continues to reward idleness while failing to provide support to keep families in tact.
Will everyone just please stop the whining, bitching and moaning and get off their fat asses and get to work?
93.
Jon H
The best stimulus would probably come from a check with the requirement that it be taken out of the country, converted into foreign currency, and then used to buy something made in the USA.
That way, the money would help the trade deficit too.
So c’mon everyone, drive across the border and buy some good old American porn.
94.
Ike
Correct me if I’m wrong but this is all to do about nothing.
If your w-2 says you make 75k, your stated income according to the IRS is not 75k but is 75k minus your standard deductions – any other deductions (if you itemize.) By my count the only people who make 75k gross and have a stated income of 75k are people who:
– live at home with their parents
– their parents still claim them as a dependent.
If that’s the case, then you don’t deserve a dime in rebates. Leave the comfort of home, support yourself and your rebate will be arriving shortly!
95.
Jon H
” Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television. Over half own two or more color televisions.”
Yeesh. I hate this argument. Pineapples used to be such luxury items that people would rent them for display at parties, hoping nobody would be so gauche as to slice into it, as that would cost a fortune. (This is part of why pineapples appear as details in Revolutionary-era architecture, flagpoles, etc.)
Aluminum was a precious metal in the 1800s.
Times change. What is expensive today may not be in the future.
Oh if they’re talking net instead of gross, that definitely changes things :)
97.
Zifnab
Not spoof, I didnât make it up. Itâs an article from Fox News.
Yes, and Bill’O says that homeless veterans don’t exist. So… horray.
You’ll forgive me if I find any FOX News report a little wildly inaccurate or fabricated. And look, the report was compiled by the Heritage Foundation. According to them, I think Syria still has WMDs. Right after we stop caring about poverty, perhaps we can run off and kill us some WMD-hide’n terr’rists.
98.
oh really
Naturally, it’s a travesty.
After all, we already do SO much for the poor in this country.
Isn’t it obvious that the average poor person in this country is rich? Richer even than the average millionaire. And all because our tax structure is geared to punish the wealthy and middle class so that poor people can vacation in St. Moritz.
99.
Anne Laurie
Well, to be fair, Aravosis doesn’t have the option of doubling his rebate by getting married. Maybe he should just have presented it as another gay-rights issue. Certainly if Jesse Malkin gets an extra $600 for sockpuppetry being a househusband, so should the lesbian couple down the block, yes?
100.
Lee
Here is my perspective as someone who will probably not get a check (even a reduced check).
My wife and I both work and both make pretty good money but less than $100k each and have 2 kids. We live in suburb of Dallas. We live comfortably, but not extravagantly (sp?). No real credit card debt (maybe a couple of grand post-christmas). We could not be more generic whitebread middle class if I wore polyester to work.
Yes I do consider us middle-class. It must a perception thing because most of who we hang with also consider themselves middle class. Do I know those in other economic brackets? yes.
Would $1200 be a big impact on our lives? No.
Would we spend the $1200? Yes. Probably on items we have been putting off on purchasing (e.g. a new video card, a Mac for my wife, etc).
Does it piss me off that they come up with some arbitrary number that excludes us? Hell yes.
If this is supposed to be a stimulus package why not cast a wider net? Especially those getting hammered with taxes (see above example of how wage income is taxed versus investment income).
One this that mitgates my irration is that if Bush the Lesser follows Bush the Greater’s lead everyone who gets this rebate will have to turn around and pay taxes on it (IIRC, Bush T.G. did the same thing twice during his 4 years and those that received it had to turn around and pay taxes on it).
101.
Haltelcere
A $600 rebate is $1.65 for each day of the year.
Which is 0.8% of $75,000, or 2% of $30,000 for a single person without kids.
(obviously a percentage comparison of money that is take-home pay vs. paid wages will be somewhat different.)
Now, put aside the “Give me mine – fuck everyone else” mentality, who is best going to a) benefit from this rebate and b) do something with the money that will provide the greatest help to the economy?
If you are barely hanging on making $75,000 or more as a single person, you have deeper financial problems than what this measly (compared to your salary) rebate will solve.
And if you are in an industry that relies on consumers purchasing your products, this rebate may actually save your job – it is always the middle-management that gets cut first when corporations “tighten the belt”.
Child poverty in the U.S. is caused largely by low levels of parental work
For me, this was the money quote.
Who knew? I thought the lazy little pickaninnies just wouldn’t go out and work.
103.
Pooh
I live in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. $75k/150k places you smack dab in the middle of middle class. Yeah, itâs probably about the median, so half the middle class will get something, but the other half is fucked.
As a former Minneapolitan, I call bullshit. Strongly.
104.
Andrew
People who think that its hard to live in NYC with ONLY $75, are stupid douchebags who think its their god-given right to have a doorman and elevator and to eat organic mango chutneys every night. Do what the rest of us do. Live within our means. I lived in NYC for years while making 30-40k. That was tough at times, but doable, and I was in Manhattan.
A-fucking-men.
And guess what? The median household income of New York City residents is LOWER than the national median household income. I hate the whiners who are earning nearly six figures complain about their difficult lives. STFU already.
105.
D-Chance.
So… will the Democrats call a press conference and put a muffler on display again?
106.
4tehlulz
Child poverty in the U.S. is caused largely by low levels of parental work
And then they will be criticized for working instead of staying at home.
Somebody making $75K needs $300? Are you fucking kidding me? Should be more like $900 to those undie $25K and nothing for the rest. Unfucking real that he has the stones to claim his $75K aint cutting it, and dont sell me that âcosts higher in NYâ shit. Move the fuck elsewhere. LIke Iowa. Heard the place rocks.
QFT. Unfortunately, the politicians want the votes, so that means the middle and upper middle class, not so much the poor.
109.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Well, to be fair, Aravosis doesnât have the option of doubling his rebate by getting married. Maybe he should just have presented it as another gay-rights issue.
except, if he makes $75K, he gets a check and if he’s got a partner who makes $75K, that partner gets their own check too. $150K –> 2x rebate. No Marriage defense here. :)
110.
Brachiator
Hmmm⊠the âstimulusâ payoff is $300, right?
It’s all a plot engineered by Steve Jobs to get people to buy ipods (AP News story):
Apple shares continued to take a beating Wednesday, a day after the company reported disappointing iPod music player sales for the holiday quarter and offered a weak outlook for the current quarter.
Apple’s (NasdaqGS:AAPL – News) stock fell 10.65% to 139.07 in heavy trading, a four-month closing low. The stock is down 30% this year.
Analysts question whether Apple can offset slowing iPod sales with rising sales of other products and services.
Apple sold 22.1 million iPods in the fiscal 2008 first quarter that ended Dec.29. Analysts were expecting 24 million to 25 million.
Bush Administration’s new slogan for people enjoying their Fat Cat Tax Cuts:
“They hate us for our financial freedom.”
112.
D-Chance.
And, btw, if I interpret this right…
Workers who make at least $3,000 but don’t pay taxes would get $300 rebates.
then that’s my upper limit. And the last time they did the $300 rebate thing, my check was only $105+ change.
The joys of self-employment. Tons of deductions (no income taxes paid in over a decade), but no goody-giveaways.
113.
NonyNony
You know, lost in the struggle of “who’s getting what where” is the whole idea that this little kabuki is supposed to be a stimulus package.
You know – this money is supposed to do something that will make the economy rebound. Inject some cash out there to get things moving.
I don’t see how it does it. Ours will go into savings. My neighbors’ will probably go to pay down credit card bills (on the one side) or towards some of their outstanding medical debt (on the other) – neither of which really seems like it’ll help the economy out much.
$600, $1200 – what does it matter? Better to think about ways that might actually prop up the economy, maybe restore some confidence that our real estate isn’t going to crash through the floor or something, rather than throwing bread at them and trying to find a circus.
114.
RSA
If I’m reading this Wikipedia page correctly, 13% of individuals in the U.S. earn more than $75K per year; the numbers don’t go into households above or below $150K, but 17% are above $150K. I know that the cost of living in some areas makes people earning that amount of money middle class at best, but I think the original linked post is off-base in suggesting that because the plan covers “only” 87% of the U.S. earners, Democrats don’t care about the middle class.
if he makes $75K, he gets a check and if heâs got a partner who makes $75K, that partner gets their own check too. $150Kâ> 2x rebate. No Marriage defense here
Hey! God commanded that rebates were to be matched only between a man and a woman.
Fucketh not with the word of God, my friend, lest ye roast forever in the fires of eternal Hell.
Um, so, his problem is that the Child Tax Credit was prematurely kicked up to its proposed maximum but not expanded beyond its normal eligibility? Which, by the way, is exactly what the Bush Administration did in time for filing your 2003 taxes in April, 2004?
What a poon.
117.
calipygian
Maybe John should move down to Anacostia. I’m sure he can find more affordable accomodations there.
I make less than 75k/year as an enlisted military guy and live quite comfortably in Alexandria, VA.
He needs to get his head out of his ass and STFU or move.
WATB
118.
pfrets
Make Americans so poor, theyâll want to move to Mexico.
Best do it quick…before the dollar falls so low it’s on par with the peso!
119.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I donât see how it does it.
It’s really just a hail-mary pass.
The market is losing money, the government says, “we should give some back”.
Who do we give it to?
Dubya: “My friends!”
Cheney: “He means ‘the rich’.”
Rove (via phone): “Not this time, you tried that already”
Dubya: “But there’s nobody else”
Bernanke: “There’s plenty of people”
Dubya: “How do I choose?”
Bernanke: “I took the liberty of making a special dartboard…”
Dubya: “Neat-o mister! Why does most of it say ‘poor consumer on it’?”
Bernanke: “I distributed it by household income. Just throw the dart.”
Dubya: “I know some poor people!”
Cheney: “He means he knows some gay people”
Bernanke: “Just throw the damn dart”
That’s about it.
The economy gets some money, and now it’s going to the more-powerful, purposeful end of the economy, the spenders, instead of the more focused, nuanced end of the economy, the Rich Fucks. The rest is up to hope.
120.
wasabi gasp
$600, $1200 â what does it matter? Better to think about ways that might actually prop up the economy
Sounds like we need a shiny new sousaphone for the Bush Tax Cuts Permanence Parade.
Oooompah Oooompah
121.
Darkness
Krista:
Still made me want to bitch-slap her, though.
Is there a line forming for this? Suffice to say we will not be getting a check, but I still buy used clothes, because they fit better from the old size model, and because I hate worrying about money. And I hate the mall, too, as the massive glass temple to waste that it is.
People who bitch and moan about the cost of living where they live piss me off. What, someone put a gun to your head and forced you to live there? Move your ass somewhere cheaper, or shut the f**k up. You _choose_ to live where you live, so don’t blame that on someone else. The amenities of your home either make up for it, or not. Only you can decide that, but don’t go whining to the world if it doesn’t, FIX IT. I live in the wilds of Upstate and get nothing but hick commentary from you city folk. Yeah, and guess what, Avarosis, we live like kings, our house is nearly paid for, and we travel around the world much of the year. You chose your life, we chose ours. Don’t like it? Choose differently. SHEESH.
122.
Sojourner
Somebody making $75K needs $300?
Yeh. Because that person’s share of his/her taxes that will go towards the stimulus package will be a hell of a lot more than that.
123.
Zifnab
The market is losing money, the government says, âwe should give some backâ.
Who do we give it to?
Dubya: âMy friends!â
Cheney: âHe means âthe richâ.â
Rove (via phone): âNot this time, you tried that alreadyâ
Dubya: âBut thereâs nobody elseâ
Bernanke: âThereâs plenty of peopleâ
Dubya: âHow do I choose?â
Bernanke: âI took the liberty of making a special dartboardâŠâ
Dubya: âNeat-o mister! Why does most of it say âpoor consumer on itâ?â
Bernanke: âI distributed it by household income. Just throw the dart.â
Dubya: âI know some poor people!â
Cheney: âHe means he knows some gay peopleâ
Bernanke: âJust throw the damn dartâ
Thatâs about it.
PotD!
124.
Fe E
A little bit of a side question, did anybody in DC even for a minute consider just investing that money in, oh I don’t know–THE COUNTRY? Things like roads, Air Traffic Control, shit like that. It isn’t like we don’t need that anyhow, it’d by definition have to move through the economy, so there would be employment, and we wouldn’t have this “I ain’t gettin’ noe, fuck you” deabate.
I know as well as everybopdy on here that that type of plan wouldn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell, but it would be nice to think somebody at least mentioned it.
125.
Jen
Isn’t the point of things like this to give people money quickly (“quickly” = this summer), and that rather forecloses the option of bickering back and forth about the various factors that make $75k for one person different from $75k for another? Maybe I have a six-figure student loan and my medical bills are in collections, and maybe you live in a house your parents left you free and clear — even if we have the same income our respective buying power is quite different. So just as the government isn’t going to get into these distinctions, they aren’t going to get into the cost of living where you live, either. If you gave a bump to the ten most expensive cities, I guarantee you’d hear the gnashing of teeth from San Diego or whatever the 11th city is.
I guess I’m saying, hey, I take the point that there are cities more expensive than others, but it’s a pretty blunt instrument. You get the same “kid bonus” per kid even if one kid’s child care costs you $15,000 a year and another doesn’t cost any.
126.
Punchy
If we took all the scratch dumped into eye-rack (500 bill) and distributed it to the same 120 mill households in America as the “stimulus package”, easy math says we all get…..$4,166 dollars.
I wanted to find a clip of Stewie following er.. “cumbersome” people around with a sousa, but Viacom’s still harshing on YouTube. I figured it would fit quite well.
PotD!
You’d think, for someone who never shuts the fuck up, I’d get one of those someday. Suspicion confirmed. My life mission is complete.
/takes a bow
129.
Zifnab
A little bit of a side question, did anybody in DC even for a minute consider just investing that money in, oh I donât knowâTHE COUNTRY? Things like roads, Air Traffic Control, shit like that. It isnât like we donât need that anyhow, itâd by definition have to move through the economy, so there would be employment, and we wouldnât have this âI ainât gettinâ noe, fuck youâ deabate.
That’s more of a long-term economic stimulus. We want to get out of the recession yesterday. So we’re doing the “quick fix” so that we can have another six more weeks of economic happiness before the bill comes due.
130.
libarbarian
if he makes $75K, he gets a check and if heâs got a partner who makes $75K, that partner gets their own check too. $150Kâ> 2x rebate. No Marriage defense here
Hey, thats true. This stimulus objectively promotes the homosexual lifestyle.
How many straight people will take the economic logic to its conclusion and start playing the meat flute just for the extra cash? Why don’t we just pay people to turn gay?
I’m surprised Malkin et al. havent picked up on this.
131.
Brachiator
Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton, riding Day One, the Experience Donkey, is busy announcing her own stimulus plan.
Whether this plan is meant to be tacked on to the current proposal, or is just meant to show how presidential she is, is not exactly clear.
Also, clearly demonstrating that she can outdo The Decider in constitutional obtusness, Mrs Clinton also notes, âWe need a president who will run the government and manage the economy,â Mrs. Clinton said at Furman late this morning. âThe American people donât hire a president to talk about our problems, but to solve them.â
I mean, I see the part in the Constitution where the president is vested with the executive power, but this is not quite the same thing as “running the government.”
132.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Thatâs more of a long-term economic stimulus. We want to get out of the recession yesterday. So weâre doing the âquick fixâ so that we can have another six50 more weeks of economic happiness before the bill comes duewhile Bush is in office.
I think that’s a bit closer to the plan.
133.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Iâm surprised Malkin et al. havent picked up on this.
They’re busy beating off the dead body of HeathLedger
134.
MaryS-NJ
Wife and I make less then the 150k, so we might get a check, but we donât need it. And while SD isnât Sf or NYC, 150K is a lot of jack for a couple and I doubt very much they need either. What I would rather see instead of a check is a reduction on the national debt. But that isnât sound-bitable or easy. Frankly, I more pissed the Dems are caving on the Fisa bill and telco immunity. Now that is something to rant about.
Me too. Hubby and I don’t need the rebate nor, it seems, are we eligible. I don’t mind personally, and would rather have paid down the debt. That being said, if I gotten rebate money we would have donated it(or goods equivalent) to the local food panty which does need it. Oh well.
I’m pissed about the FISA thing. I don’t expect much from Republicans but those spineless Democrats… Sigh. I hate being so routinely disappointed.
135.
Gus
Lemme guess, the Other Steve. Edina? West Bloomington? Minnetonka? Wayzata? I live in what I would consider a middle class neighborhood in South Mpls, and my wife and I don’t even make even $100,000 together, let along $150k. The neighbors I know in my neighborhood are in the same boat. Maybe we’re lower class? Lower middle?
136.
Ninerdave
The problem that Aravosis uncovers while whining about not getting a check is that lower, middle and upper classes vary by region. What is middle class in one part of the nation is poverty in another. Talking about classes in broad terms is useless.
Wait, I take it back: It’s not even a part of the Child Tax Credit; it’s a rebate that’s structured similarly. But, since it’s not a credit, over 94% of American households will receive it. So, this rebate does the exact opposite of what Mr. Aravosis claims it does.
I was slightly wrong, but he’s still a poon.
138.
srv
It’s official, Wolfie is now heading a Foggy Bottom board that misunderestimates arms control.
Returning soon with new assessments on guess who next month?
Those of you who think $75K a year is good money obviously live someplace where you can buy a home for $150K or rent a 3 bedroom apartment for $650 a month. I live in the SF Bay area and have a six figure income. I live in a 640 square foot 1 bedroom apartment. A 700 square foot condo anywhere in the Bay Area outside of East Palo Alto or East Oakland (i.e., cracktown) will cost you a *minimum* of $600K. And if your job is here, you really don’t have a choice, other than driving for four hours a day from the Central Valley. The upside is that we get paid a salary large enough to afford this. Which isn’t much of an upside, because you inbred losers from flyover country are intent on stealing it all from us.
So it appears that you flyover country dimwits who don’t make diddly nowdays except cow patties and farm fields believe that a) we should be punished for living in the most innovative, dynamic places in the country rather than in your dismal trailerparks full of meth-heads, losers, and old people (and don’t give me no guff here, I *KNOW*, I lived there for the first twenty years of my life and get on my knees and thank God that now, in the prime of my life, I can live alongside intelligent, thoughtful, creative people rather than be back there), and b) the fact that we pay more in taxes than we get back in services is just fair because we make more money (you flyover state people are a buncha welfare whores, without us creative people in the creative states you’d be eating your cow flops because we’re propping your loser asses up), and thus c), it’s only fair that we get reamed up the ass yet *again* so you welfare whores can take more of *our* money and spend it on whatever you losers spend it on (probably meth or hillbilly heroin, my property manager for my properties back in Flyover Country regularly has to check vacant properties because the meth-heads break in and cook their crank in there when they’re not busy stripping out all the wiring and plumbing to sell for more fuel for their meth habit).
Fuggitall. I say that we set you people free to control your own destinies. California alone has the 6th largest economy in the world. Used to be 5th largest, until you losers dragged us down subsidizing your meth habits…
But Aravosis is certainly right, that if you are going for political theatre they basically just told the middle class to fuck off, we donât want your votes because you are too rich
No, they didn’t: The rebates are not tax credits. You get one regardless of your income tax liability. Everyone is getting a little bit (at least $300 — can you not read?). If you have children, you are getting a $300 per child (up to 4 children) more. These rules are based on two programs thought up by Republicans — TANF eligibility (which establishes the 4 child cap on federal benefits) and the Child Tax Credit (up to $1,000 per child by 2010 based on income tax liability; no liability (as in poor), no credit).
Also, since they’re not credits and not tied to liability, that means everyone with kids making under $75K (if a single parent) or $150K (married) gets to cash in. The median household income in the U.S. in 2006 was $48,201. In fact, only 5.84% of households filed at above $150K last year.
The Democrats’ plan does the exact opposite of what Aravosis says.
So, Aravosis is complaining that this plan privileges the groups of people who spend more of their income on consumables. Sounds like… a good way to increase consumer spending, like an economic stimulus plan should. As opposed to giving it to him, which seems to be the real cause of his whining.
142.
FS
I want to throw a “howdy” to John from my mansion in Topeka. Just thought you ought to know that it takes at least $80,000 a year to afford a 5,000 aquare foot mansion out here.
143.
Dracula
The upside is that we get paid a salary large enough to afford this. Which isnât much of an upside, because you inbred losers from flyover country are intent on stealing it all from us.
Damn straight we are. You fuckers went and decided that a fair price to live in a state with mudslides, earthquakes, torrential rain, fires, tornados, occasional blizzards, and a smog so thick it could hold a clipboard is some insanely high amount of scratch that no one could really afford so all your fucking companies pay you some artifically high (read: subsidized) salary just to be able to pay the prices for homes that aren’t even close to fair value, and when it crashes, all you sorry ass bitches come crying to Big Daddy Banker about how upside down your mortgage is. Here’s a tissue.
God forbit we actually give back money to the people who earned it
Do they not teach you basic reading comprehension in libertarian fantasy land?
150.
Ninerdave
John Aravosis is EXACTLY RIGHT.
God forbit we actually give back money to the people who earned it.
Oh come on. Now, I think this “stimulus” package is a stupid idea, another case of doing something to look like you’re doing something (and in this case putting us in debt to do so) However if you are going to do it, the lower class and poor will actually spend the money, the middle and upper class people will either save the money or use it to pay off debt.
This isn’t meant to be a tax cut.
151.
Larv
John Aravosis is EXACTLY RIGHT.
God forbit we actually give back money to the people who earned it.
I really hope this is spoofery or satire of some sort. Unfortunately, I suspect it isn’t. This is the same tired old “it’s not FAIR!” argument so beloved of conservatives. The problem with this here is that fairness is a pretty poor measure of an economic stimulus plan. The point is to get the money into the hands of consumers who will spend it, rather than banking it. That’s it. It’s not to distribute government revenues in an equitable manner. I’m sure there are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize the stimulus plan, but a lack of fairness to the middle class ain’t one of them.
152.
Brachiator
God forbit we actually give back money to the people who earned it.
This is beyond stupid if you really think that people who make less than $75K are not actually earning their income.
By the way, here is former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich on stimulus plans:
What sort of stimulus? Since 80 percent of Americans pay more in payroll taxes than they do in income taxes, and because middle and lower-income people are far more likely to spend whatever tax relief they get than higher-income people, the best stimulus would offset the payroll tax. And the easiest way to do this is through a refundable tax credit, effective as soon as possible. I’ve looked at what the candidates are offering. Obama’s stimulus package seems to me to be the most reasonable. It would give a direct, immediate boost to the economy. In my view, its tax cuts for workers and extra social security payments for seniors offer the fastest and most efficient way to get more purchasing power into the economy.
Or, um, what Ninerdave said. I need to type faster.
154.
lee
The point is to get the money into the hands of consumers who will spend it….
Under what assumption are you making this claim?
You can point to that SecOfLabor fellow but all he claims is that there are those that are more likely to spend as opposed to invest.
Wouldn’t spending AND investing the stimulus package actually be better long term than just spending?
155.
Ninerdave
Wouldnât spending AND investing the stimulus package actually be better long term than just spending?
No, because the idea behind this is to “stimulate” the economy, e.g. get people to buy stuff. The purpose of which is to reduce supply and increase demand which in theory will get the economy heading in a positive direction again. If people are holding on to the money the government gives them to spend, it’s not doing reducing supply and increasing demand.
As I said above, I don’t think this is going to do shit aside from add more to the deficit, but that’s the theory.
156.
The Other Steve
Giving SCHIP to families making $100k = Prudent
$300 tax rebate = OH MY GOD! THOSE RICH BASTARDS DON’T NEED IT!
157.
Ninerdave
Oh and I should add this is supposed to be a strictly short term measure.
Long term thinking from politicians in an election year? HA!
158.
srv
Tux, well said, but don’t blow a gasket, man. Just head down to Toronado and sip Delirium Tremens.
159.
Darkness
Badtux:
Fuggitall. I say that we set you people free to control your own destinies. California alone has the 6th largest economy in the world.
You go right ahead, Waterless World. Last I checked you Californians were sucking dry the neighboring, what, 6-8 states? Yeah, you go off and go it alone. Your neighbors would be freakin’ pleased about that… they want their water back.
In 1986 I was in California and this guy yelled at me, yelled not argued, he was pissed, that I, from Michigan, was withholding Great Lakes water from California. That we were hogging it all. What a spoiled nutcase. After that I decided any water issue should from hereforth be decided in California’s disfavor. Jebesus H, you Californians wanted a freakin’ pipeline 3000 miles freakin’ long so you could fill your stupid swimming pools, I guess. Get a grip on reality, please.
Back to your original point. You enjoy where you live, despite the price. That’s great (no sarcasm, really). I would hope so, otherwise you’re silly to live there. This is just a value proposition, and clearly for Avarosis it doesn’t pay out. For you it does. I’m just a purveyor of the, “if you aren’t happy, change something,” mentality.
It’s time like these that you can really see that Aravosis has only been a democrat for four or five years. He’s still got that GOP silver foot in his mouth.
(No offense meant to our recently minted Democrat host, Mr. Cole. He seems to have gotten it right fairly quickly.)
161.
Brachiator
Wouldnât spending AND investing the stimulus package actually be better long term than just spending?
No. A lot of this stuff, from both parties, is just political theater. Dubya is just looking for more opportunities to give businesses tax breaks. The Democrats think that by targeting tax cuts and rebates, they will achieve something.
But the fundamental problem is that wages, especially throughout the middle class are relatively stagnant, real purchasing power has declined (as food, fuel and housing costs eat up more of people’s incomes), and the new jobs that are created don’t really pay well.
If it were up to me, I would try to make unemployment compensation portable, so that a person could more easily move out of a state where there were no jobs to a new job location, but still receive (or get credit for) unemployment compensation from the old state. I like the idea of giving a credit for social security taxes. I would try something that might actually encourage job creation. Note now how a company’s stock often shoots up when the company lays people off.
A one time shot of $300 or $800 or whatever the magic number is just will not accomplish very much. How do we know? The last rebate did not stimulate the economy worth a damn. But Dubya stubbornly clings to whatever he thinks he knows, and the Democrats want so election-season credit for doing something for “the people” and for showing that they can be bi-partisan.
162.
Larv
Giving SCHIP to families making $100k = Prudent
$300 tax rebate = OH MY GOD! THOSE RICH BASTARDS DONâT NEED IT!
It doesn’t really matter if they need it or not, it’s whether they can be counted on to spend it quickly that’s important. A lower cutoff both increases the odds of this happening and reduces the price of the package. Set it higher and it becomes more expensive, with diminishing returns. That this is unfair to a certain segment of the middle class who live in areas with high standards of living is unfortunate, but not particularly relevant to the stated purpose.
163.
Digital Amish
Way late to the game but this whole boondoggle is eating at my craw. It’s not a stimulus package, it’s an incumbant protection plan. It’s a continuation of the borrow and spend plan that’s gotten us (as a country and as individuals) to our current situation. The money will either be transfered to credit and mortgage holders or sent to Asia for HDTVs or Mp3 players. Maybe a few longshoremen will get a couple of extra shifts offloading COSCO containers. That’s about the extent of the stimulus.
Michael D: It’s not your money anymore. It’s the governments. Consider it your dues for living in America.
So these WATBs are screeching because they won’t get a measly $300-$600? Tell those assholes to get the fuck off the crosses. It’s snowing out West and we need the wood for our fireplaces.
I make 2/3 of that amount, and I still don’t need the $600 that will probably come my way. Then again, I have my credit card debt nearly paid off, I own an old car outright, and I don’t eat out at restaurants or bars every night. To these people, I’m probably boring as hell, but I was also raised by a Depression baby who grew up eating squirrels and anything her mother could forage because a coal miner’s salary went fuck-all nowhere. My mother taught me to stretch a dollar better than Torquemada.
Grow the fuck up, Aravosis.
At any rate, it’s nothing more than a loan on next year’s taxes. Mine will go right into my 401K. What the hell; I might as well earn some future income off it.
165.
sglover
Unemployment and food stamps â the sort of benefits that target people who desperately need help â are off the table and we hear bitching about the guy making $75k + a dollar? What about the guy making $0k? You think he could use some extra economic stimulus? Iâm betting heâs not going to stuff the money in his mattress.
And the best part, the hands-down absolutely fantastic part, is how weâve totally glossed over the business tax cuts. Why the hell are we giving out more business tax cuts? Why do businesses need this money all of a sudden? Its a housing slump. Whoâs getting foreclosed on? Wallie or Walmart? Whoâs going to lose his job? Jay or JD Edwards?
God damn fucking Democrats.
My thoughts exactly. This travesty is just the latest short-sighted, unprincipled, gutless Democratic betrayal. Lefties and liberals and progressives just have to get past this idea that because the Republicans are so awful (which they undeniably are), they have to keep playing Stockholm Syndrome with the Jackass.
My ideological comrades are gonna turn out in ’08 and help hand the Dems a sweep, and you know what they’re gonna get in return? We’re still going to be in Iraq. We’re still going to pissing away about a TRILLION dollars a year on “defense”. Health care “reform” is going to be written by and for the same corporate oligarchs who control the health care “system” now. And in the process, when they prove utterly incapable of cleaning up all the shit from the Bush years, they’ll discredit progressive ideas AGAIN!!
Don’t vote for them. Vote for anyone else, or don’t vote at all — because that’s a vote, too. Let the GOP take the blame it deserves for the Bush criminal spree. And teach the Dems that they don’t get to hold you hostage.
166.
sglover
Yeesh. I hate this argument. Pineapples used to be such luxury items that people would rent them for display at parties, hoping nobody would be so gauche as to slice into it, as that would cost a fortune. (This is part of why pineapples appear as details in Revolutionary-era architecture, flagpoles, etc.)
Interesting. Also, it gives a whole new meaning to the phrase “one the dole”.
On color TV’s and pineapples, I hate the “poor have ” with a freaking passion. I remember Paul Harvey on his radio show years ago going on and on about welfare queens, “the poor people of today have *color TV*!” Of course, he came from a time where color TV’s would be over $3000 in today’s money (1954).
That’s still inexcusable demagoguery. Especially when there is no mention that color TV’s, like cellphones today, are all but impossible not to have, what with all the hand-me-down sets sometimes literally floating along on the curb, in someone’s yard-sale, etc.
Like my favorite quote from Max Headroom, “they *give* TV’s to the needy!” Consumer electronics, unless they have diamonds on them, are a very poor way of determining “wealth”.
With Americablog, you gotta take the good with the bad, I suppose. John A is profoundly selfish and self-centered. He says he is no longer a republican, but he still acts like one outside of the voting booth. His daily writings range from tolerable to insufferable, and he is without a doubt the worst contributor on his own blog. Still, there are posts like this that I don’t see anywhere else, which is why Americablog remains in my RSS reader.
169.
Gus
Badtux, why the fuck do you think I live in Minneapolis? The weather? I’d move to SF in a minute if I could afford it. You made your choice, you get to live in SF. It’s expensive to live there for a reason. Jesus Christ, do I really have to explain it to you?
170.
Andrew
Those of you who think $75K a year is good money obviously live someplace where you can buy a home for $150K or rent a 3 bedroom apartment for $650 a month. I live in the SF Bay area and have a six figure income. I live in a 640 square foot 1 bedroom apartment.
Oh jesus, not another one. How do you ever survive on your pidly six figures!!????!
The median household income for San Francisco is under $60,000. So yeah, if you’re earning the $75,000 of the stimulus cutoff, you’re at 125% of the median HOUSEHOLD income and you’re doing just fucking fine and really shouldn’t be a whiny asshole about it.
Fine, you’re not in the upper half of Palo Fucking Alto at $75k. Boo hoo. Move 5 miles down the road to Redwood City and you’re back in the top half again. At six figures, you’re above the median HOUSEHOLD income of Palo Alto, one of the richest fucking cities in the world.
Yes, I have lived in the Bay Area. I know it’s a lot more expensive than Bumblefuck, Arkansas. But enough with the bitching about “only” earning six figures. I am unsympathetic to your complaints, to put it mildly, and it makes you look like an ass.
oh boy, thanks for …. something. These idjits have cost me 20x that pissant “rebate” over 7 yrs of BushCo. Between total non-enforcement of legal hiring practices and shoving dollars into the investment class one end of my market is gone, blue collar & lower middle class are trailer house bait (fine, modular), my legal help costs me too much (not enough for them) per sq ft bid since market is driven by the cheats. Now they’ve killed housing altogether with crap loans. I don’t have much sympathy for people who bought McMansions who should’ve bought a house, but a lot of people got pushed into subprimes who didn’t belong there and ARMs are a disaster waiting to happen.
The “rebate” will go to Walmart so it can go back to China where we borrowed it in the first place. I’d have preferred an investment in infrastructure, though Halliburton – et al, would’ve gotten most of it. They just gave business a tax break to get minimum wage hike…
I’m a business, I don’t need a tax break, I need workers who’re paid decently and a goddam market. I never needed a housing bubble, but a busted one is way down my list of tolerable, this may finish me off. Anything like a cushion has gone to wages and skyrocketing insurance (liability + 600% in 5 yrs – no claims), the last year has been hand to mouth.
Ah well, whine whine. I live in a 1600 sq ft house, 1878 Victorian I rebuilt and doubled in size, I don’t make median income – though part of it is tax games of S-Corp, but I still don’t. (Money spent is spent, whether I pay taxes on it or not) Since my kids are grown… I don’t want a fucking rebate, I want to see the guys who work for me make a decent living and not bankrupt me in the process.
Just to clean up a few things, no, people making over $87k do not get the $300. “Everyone” getting that amount means that people who didn’t make enough to pay taxes will get it. It looks like my check will be either $100 or $150. Oh well, I’ll try to survive.
Also the income is based on adjusted gross income, so mortgage deductions and the like don’t come into play alas.
I donât want a fucking rebate, I want to see the guys who work for me make a decent living and not bankrupt me in the process.
I feel your pain (sorry). I happened to look at the Ron Paul economic plan, and it had something in it about reducing business taxes. It occurred to me that businessmen want to maximize profits, so they will keep wages as low as they can and still get workers. And a light-bulb went off. What if we triggered business tax-cuts to the wages they paid? Pay higher wages, we will tax you less!
Now, you would have to determine whether the prevailing wage for the workers you hired was logical ($30/hr special-skill jobs vs. $10/hr entry-level jobs shouldn’t be the comparison), so there would have to be some kind of scale of wages which the businessman could use to determine his wage scale, but a lot of that kind of data is already available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, so there wouldn’t be a need for “increased government bureaucracy” as such.
I don’t know if this idea would “fly,” but it seems logical to me that we already use tax policies to promote social ends (charity deductions, etc.), so why not include paying a livable wage as a target of our tax policies?
Discussion? If any candidate wants to claim this as his/her idea, be my guest. Though I have now placed it in “tangible form,” I will not claim my copyright.
Ed
176.
Dan
Try as I might I just can’t get excited about this one.
The whole idea of a stimulus check is absurd in the extreme and doesn’t appear likely to do anything to actually help the economy.
But since no one in congress has the brass ones to actually address the structural problems that are likely to permanently cripple the US economy I suppose cutting a check to some constituents must strike many of them as a bold move.
I wonder if anyone in congress has considered what will happen to the US economy once central banks around the world stop buying US currency as their primary reserve and foreign investors stop buying T-Bills. Fun fact…that’s already started happening.
177.
Andrew
So itâs agreed them. FUCK THE MIDDLE CLASS!
Can you let me know when we redefined middle class to include the upper quintile of incomes?
If you’re an individual earning over $75k, YOU ARE NOT MIDDLE CLASS. Barely 11% of Americans make this much or more.
178.
Darkness
I wonder if anyone in congress has considered what will happen to the US economy once central banks around the world stop buying US currency as their primary reserve and foreign investors stop buying T-Bills. Fun factâŠthatâs already started happening.
If this had happened already, we’d be in MUCH better shape. Honestly. This is the ONLY thing that will get the national debt paid down, via the wealthiest 2% I should hope. Put the capital gains tax back near the income tax and we’d be halfway there. Why these other countries haven’t done this is a mystery. We have a worldwide economy set up where the skinny kids at the table are borrowing money to buy the fat kid at the head of it all the candy he can eat. Does that sound sustainable?
Discussion? If any candidate wants to claim this as his/her idea, be my guest. Though I have now placed it in âtangible form,â I will not claim my copyright.
Ed
This is easier than you think. It would just be a cut in employment taxes where only hourlies would qualify and the cut would be higher the more the company paid out in wage per month. Employment taxes are high enough that this would be noticed (well, not worldwide, high, actually in the U.S. they are dirt cheap). I’m self-employed and pay both sides of social security and employment taxes so I see the impact of this number and it is not insubstantial. I had a lean year a few years back, and my effective tax rate was 54% as a result, due to being both the employee and employer.
179.
F. Frederson
It gets better – Aravosis went and deleted all the comments from yesterday, and is now fisking the few he is allowing through. WATB, indeed.
In the Canadian West, there was a party called “Social Credit”. The primary promise? Giving everyone in the province (Alberta) three one-dollar certivicates. Hey, it was 1936… Anyway, they had to pay a penny for every certificate they had each week in order for it to be considered “valid” tender, the idea being that people would rather spend the dollars than pay the penny, hence stimulating the economy in a province-wide game of “hot potato”.
Catch the problem(s), there?
This meant nobody wanted to take them as change, and they stopped circulating. The wealthiest folks didn’t bother using them at all. Amazingly, this cunning strategy failed to end the Depression.
Decades later (1979), the SoCreds gained power in British Columbia, and decided what people really wanted was to enjoy the excitement of the stock market – specifically, in the province.
If you’re interested, tell your local advisor you want to buy and trade on the Vancouver Stock Exchange. And watch him blanche. Back to the story.
So they created BCRIC shares, which were shares of a Crown Corporation that bought out bankrupt businesses. Everyone in the province got five shares, to do with what they would. The porest people sold them immediately to buy things like, say, food; the richest quietly dumped them off; and a lot of folks in the middle decided to try hanging on to them to see what happened.
Any guesses?
If you guessed “the company tanked and needed consolidation, rendering the shared worth less than 1% of their previous value”, you’re right!
And you know what? The economy wasn’t all that stimulated by these plans.
This latest idea of a cash giveaway is marginally better than either of those, but only because there is some focus to them, a marginal targeting of largesse. But that is damning with as faint a praise that is to be found.
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Jen
Suck. It. Up.
My favorite part was
Rarely Posts
I don’t know. If the object is to simulate the economy the best people to give it to are those that are going to run right out and spend it. Unfair, perhaps, but why give it to someone who’s not going to spend it immediately?
SenderC
As ABBA would say:
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich mans world
Paul L.
Just remember that the people above these limits are the people Democrats like to refer to as “the rich”.
Such as “Bush’s tax cuts for the rich”.
Greedy SOB’s deserve no sympathy from a progressive.
D. Mason
Thanks John, I don’t read Americablog because of Aravosis’s Red State like tendency to ban anyone who disagrees but it’s good to know he still has his little melt downs from time to time. That loser sure is good for a few laughs every now and again and I appreciate you bringing teh funny here.
Carrie
The hell?
I do get the importance of cost of living, but people who live in Manhattan in that 300 square foot apartment could instead be living out of the city and taking the train in. High cost of living areas are usually surrounded by low(er) cost of living areas. If you love where you live so much that you’re willing to pay $2k a month for a 1 bedroom in DC, then that’s your choice. At $75k a year you could soak the costs of commute, especially considering that both NYC and DC have pretty decent transit systems.
This whole stimulus package is stupid, but I’m not feeling all that bad for the individuals who are making $75k a year.
Zifnab
So, when the recession hits and everyone loses their jobs… they’re still fucked. I hope you can stretch that $300 really far. Better start stocking up on that Ramen.
Ok, so to be fair, $75k is the top of the line for the 25% tax bracket. It’s not like they pulled the number out of their asses. However, I am curious what
this entails. The McPain / Mittens plan, if I recall correctly, involved dropping Corporate Taxes at the expense of private tax cuts. So are they cutting food stamps, unemployment, and anyone over $75k to give Exxon / Microsoft / Halliburton yet another multi-billion dollar check? That doesn’t sound like economic stimulus to me.
Personally, I think this whole “economic stimulus” package is bunk anyway. Might as well take a mop to Monsoon Season. You can’t just throw money at a recession to make it go away. Why do we make this mistake every frak’n economic cycle?
zzyzx
I wish I were as rich as the Democrats thought I was :) Stupid high costs of living.
OTOH, I don’t really need it, so I’m not going to shed too many tears.
Dug Jay
The proposals as he summarized them are in line with what the business media are also reporting. It’s important to note that this plan has been conceptually agreed to only in the House among Dems and Reps. The Senate may have different ideas. On balance,the House plan would appear to put the focus on those who likely most need help and therefore those who will pump the funds back into the economy right away, which I thought was a primary objective of the so-called stimulus plan.
A Different Matt
Shorter America blog:
“Congress wants to redistribute our money to everyone but a select group of people living in NYC, S.F., or D.C. making $75k to 200k/year.”
Teak111
Wife and I make less then the 150k, so we might get a check, but we don’t need it. And while SD isn’t Sf or NYC, 150K is a lot of jack for a couple and I doubt very much they need either. What I would rather see instead of a check is a reduction on the national debt. But that isn’t sound-bitable or easy. Frankly, I more pissed the Dems are caving on the Fisa bill and telco immunity. Now that is something to rant about.
LITBMueller
I can tell y’all exactly what my wife & I will do with our $1,2000 check – pay down one of our credit card bills!
And I’m willing to bet the vast majority of Americans will either do that, or make a mortgage payment.
So, this is really a Bank Stimulus Plan…on top of all the bank stimulating they’ve already done. Brilliant! I’m gonna write the IRS and ask them to mail our check directly Chase Bank so I can save on the postage…
zzyzx
Yeah this really makes me wish I were married already. Then we’d qualify for the whole check :)
Oh well.
Jay B.
Avarosis is a whiny douchenozzle. He’s right more often than not on political matters, but his blind spots are huge and completely annoying. The “Democrats care only about the POOR*” is particularly tone-deaf and priceless, as is his utterly hypocritical stance that while all matters Gay are to be studied for any sign of disrespect, fuck the Indians who happened to be appalled at Chief Whatshisnuts — the white kid who whoops around at Illini games — they shouldn’t be so sensitive.
*As defined by me the single, gay, whiny douchenozzle making over the cutoff.
Dennis - SGMM
If you’re living in one of those places then a measly few hundred bucks isn’t going to do you much good anyway – is it? Where should the cutoff be if not where it is?
I’m sure that Bill Gates and Britney were already making plans for their rebate checks.
Punchy
Oh STFU, Aravosis. Ameriblog is full of whiny-ass bitches.
Somebody making $75K needs $300? Are you fucking kidding me? Should be more like $900 to those undie $25K and nothing for the rest. Unfucking real that he has the stones to claim his $75K aint cutting it, and dont sell me that “costs higher in NY” shit. Move the fuck elsewhere. LIke Iowa. Heard the place rocks.
Pooh
Republicans only care about the rich. Democrats only care about the poor. OBVIOUSLY, they are equally bad because of this. Wait, what?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Are you fucking kidding me? This is a joke, right?
ok… lets check this here…
1.) My W2 is 70K. I’m FUCKING RICH.
2.) I live in Manhattan, in Chelsea. I’m a snob. I’m STILL FUCKING RICH
3.) I’m getting bonus in a bit, which will likely kick me just above the ceiling. I’m GLAD the poor are getting my check. I DON’T NEED IT.
if you’re poor at 75K minus 300 sq.ft, even in Manhattan, you’re an idiot or very sloppy with your money.
The Moar You Know
What? When did they legalize narcotics?
I’ve been lurking here for a while, but finally had to speak up. As John put it, “I read this shit so you don’t have to”. I read it. I still think it’s a spoof.
I don’t make nearly $75k a year, but would happily forgo this “rebate” (I don’t need it; it would be nice but I have food on my table) in favor of some sane economic policy, which I don’t see happening anytime soon. Move that ceiling down to $30k a year and help some folks that could REALLY use the money, for Crissakes.
Zifnab
Yeah, that’s kinda what I was thinking. This shouldn’t really bother those people making more than $75,500 since the amount of money they lose from stimulus, they make up with a bigger pay check.
It’s the poor shlubs in the $75,000 – $75,500 range that get stuck. And to them I say, life’s a bitch and we apologize.
Hey, every penny you pay now is a penny they can’t charge you 25% interest on a month later. And now that your credit card is $1200 farther away from its credit limit, you have the buying power to go out and buy more stuff. Not that this is advisable…
But you can’t seriously blame Congress for the existence and wide-spread use of credit cards, now can you? I’ve got $0 credit card debt. Not sure what I’m going to do with my free money. Probably stick it in my bank account and sit on it, like I do with the rest of my disposable income. Oh noes! I just gave the banks more money!
:p Seriously, if you’ve got a better idea (and I can’t imagine you can do substantially worse), let’s hear it. But free money is free money. I don’t see how “paying off a credit card” or “paying my mortgage” is such an awful thing that you’d poo-poo it. Beats getting repo’d or tossed out on the street.
wingnuts to iraq
under these plans, no check for me.
The Grand Panjandrum
Boo-fucking-hoo!
Even shorter Americablog: Boo hoo. Poor me, I don’t get any so no one else should get any.
Personally, I believe this whole stimulus package is a load of shit. Its an election year so only a few people will be helped. Ahem. Those running for office. But better the money get directly into to the hands of the people than filtered through the local mafia state legislators.
Hey things could be a whole lot worse! The former Cheerleader could still be Pres… oops, never mind.
Larv
Yeah, Aravosis is an idiot. He doesn’t seem to realize that it’s a stimulus plan, not a fairness plan. To stimulate the economy you give money to those most likely to spend it, i.e. the poor. You give somebody making 100K a year that money, and it’ll probably go into their bank account or pay off a bill. That won’t really do much for consumer spending, which is sorta the whole point. What a WATB he is.
Punchy
Stealin’ this. Pithy, succinct, alliterative.
Anyone see RAMBO vs. TEXAS RANGER!
Yes, the phony make-believe POW is now endorsing the real-life POW.
No word on who the Ghost of Charles Bronson is backing.
Bubblegum Tate
I was sure it wasn’t a spoof, but I was a bit unclear un what his underlying point was. I believe it was: “I want a fucking check!” I could be wrong, though.
I live in the SF Bay Area, and I make
Fe E
Wow, I’d never realized what a tool Aravosis is. I think I’ve heard him comment on “Gay issues” but not too much else.
Whining about being poor at 75k, is well, shocking.
Dude, you just made “the list.”
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I know, doesn’t it sound like when he heard “stimulus” he went out and bought a PS3, or a kegerator… and now he’s finding out that the gov’t changed it’s mind.
I still cannot figure out how you make more than 75K and complain about money. I can only think of:
1.) You don’t use condoms. Idiot.
2.) You went to NYU off-scholarship, on-loan. Idiot.
2a.) Paid by credit-card. Holy shit, you’re an idiot.
3.) You went short crude oil sometime in the past 3 years? Idiot.
4.) You spent all your money campaigning for Ron Paul. Idiot.
4a.) Did I say Ron Paul? I mean Dennis Kucinich. Good god, man, you’re an idiot.
5.) You buy a new car every year like it’s 1956. Idiot.
4tehlulz
That whole comments thread is epic lulz. It’s about 90% people calling John a whiny bitch and 10% coming up with gems like this one:
If you can afford to live in Back Bay, you don’t need the $300, and you sure as hell aren’t making $75,000.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I second the blatant theft.
Those some deep words you got there, Ziffy.
John S.
No, Paul, you fucking dolt. For Bush, rich means rich:
I know you’re little more than a partisan hack, but even you can’t claim that $75,000 = $10 million.
Kevin
Interesting/depressing new poll about what people thing about the state of the union. 81% of the respondents are unhappy; definitely interesting, but not particularly surprising
http://www.collectiveintellect.com/2008/01/new_harris_poll_on_the_state_o.php
peach flavored shampoo
The rant and the facts are not congruous. Color me surprised.
Scotty
I might be wrong, but I believe that most people will spend their stimulus check on bills or other necessities. Mine will be going to my county/town tax which has gone through the roof in the last few years.
Dennis - SGMM
Now for Phase II, which is the candidates all explaining what they would have done to stimulate us:
Dems: I would have repealed the Bush tax cuts, rebated $1200 per child, retrained laid off workers, and given everyone a pony.
Republicans: I would have made The President’s tax cuts permanent to restore faith in the economy, repealed the Death Tax, cut the Capital Gains rate to 2% and, oh yes, given everyone a pony.
Face
HERE’S the funny:
They’re gunna send these checks in the next few weeks. How many people do you think will simply take this $$ and turn right around and use it to pay their Federal taxes?
/waving arm in air like Arnold Horshack
So the gov’t undertakes this massive project, probably at a ridiculous cost, to identify the eligible, spend a kajillion to have them printed and mailed to 117 million homes, only to have the money sent right back a week later by tax filers.
Brilliant. Economy surely fixed, bitches.
The Grand Panjandrum
@Dennis – SGMM: I can’t tell you how many times I read your posts and laugh out loud because you have expressed my thoughts. Cheers!
Both of my Kindergartners will be very happy to know what they are getting for Christmas this year. Its a win-win! Until, we have to pay for it, of course.
Don’t worry. Be happy. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
AkaDad
With my tax rebate, I’m going to buy a drill, some Vaseline, and a Tickle Me Elmo.
4tehlulz
Oh shi-. I didn’t even think of that. One may excused for thinking that it was on purpose.
Zifnab
Wait, I just assumed this was going to be added on to this year’s tax refund? Please, please, please tell me our government isn’t this retarded. Please?
Dr. Squid
Wonder how many more people he’ll banninate from his site after that one.
Bombadil
Now that’s what I call a stimulus package!
Doubting Thomas
This shouldn’t be too surprising. He threw the Transgendered community under the bus with the whole ENDA mess. He was a whiny man then, and he’s a whiny man now.
I stopped reading AmericaBlog when it was apparent they used the same tactics as RedState and LGF. We gay people already have enough stereotypes floating around about us without John A. confirming them for all the world!
A shame, but there are much better “gay” themed blogs out there–Pam’s House Blend and Firedoglake to name a couple (even though Firedoglake is pretty mainstream now).
jack fate
I dunno ’bout yous guys, but I’d love to be struggling at $75,000 a year. Even in NYC or DC.
4tehlulz
Me too. In fact, if my family was struggling at $150K/year, I would be willing to give up my rebate.
LITBMueller
Well, I’m no economist, Zifnab, but there’s definitely no “free money.” I was pointing out that this doesn’t seem like much of an “economic stimulus” as much as a “bank stimulus” plan, since the biggest problem for the economy right now is debt – risky big mortgages, chronic credit card debt, big car loans for all the Hummers. Add to that the creeping inflation spurred on by high gas prices. Plus, we won’t even get the damn checks until June, which may be too late to do much of anything.
My “better idea” (and, again, I’m no economist) would have been to deal with the subprime crisis (which everyone knew was coming) BEFORE it hit. Oh well!!! In the end, aren’t we just robbing Peter to pay Paul since we’re spending billions per month in Iraq and we’d have to borrow the damn money from China? We’re pretty much fucked. That’s my professional non-economist opinion! :)
The Other Steve
Aravosis is right. The cut off basically means the middle class is out of luck on this one.
The comments thus far seem to show people completely out of touch with America. Yes, if you are making $100k/year you probably could find plenty of ways to cut back on spending. But that’s not really the point is it? If everybody cut back on spending, we’d certainly go into a recession. And a large number of those going into default on their mortgage are up in that bracket.
That’s not to say we should encourage people to spend at current levels, I think we need to gradually change our priorities as a nation.
But Aravosis is certainly right, that if you are going for political theatre they basically just told the middle class to fuck off, we don’t want your votes because you are too rich.
cleek
no check for us. oh well, guess we’ll have to find a way to get by without those 25 extra bottles of Laphroiag next year.
Larv
Wait, is this a stimulus plan or a vote-buying plan?
Krista
No kidding. I can’t even relate to the idea of buying a car that nobody else has ever owned. Shit, even a large percentage of my clothes are second-hand. With the house we’re building, we’re contracting it ourselves, and doing all of our own finish work, to try to trim some pennies.
But, with a lot of people, the more you make, the more you spend. A friend of my sister’s, who makes a very comfortable salary, referred to manicures, pedicures, salon highlights and massages as “necessities”. I guess when you get used to being able to afford those things, you can’t imagine life without them.
Still made me want to bitch-slap her, though.
Brachiator
The part that I really loved was this: That’s because far too often the Democrats don’t give a damn about anybody who isn’t a minority or starving to death (both valid causes to be sure, but are they the ONLY causes out there?).
From this, I presume that the ranter believes that only single white men make more than $75K.
As I noted in another thread, no matter how you slice it, some of this rebate stuff is just smoke and mirrors. As with the last âtax rebate,â the middle class rubes are fooled into thinking that they have miraculously got either a tax cut or their âown money backâ while Dubya and his cronies push through real, more substantial and outrageous tax cuts for the wealthy, and those who have a big slice of their income from investments and capital gains.
Hereâs a fun example. Letâs take that “median income” family of 4 with an income of $50,000.
$50,000 in income all from wages. Tax after child tax credit is $1076.
$50,000 in income all from capital gains. Tax after child tax credit is ZERO.
Hereâs another. Married couple, just starting out, no kids.
$50,000 in income all from wages. Tax is $4096.
$50,000 in income all from capital gains. Tax is $1625.
So at almost any income level, if your dough comes primarily from investment income, you’re doing better than anybody whose income is based on wages.
But of course, the wealthy are busy âcreating jobsâ with their windfalls. That is, when they are not destroying the credit markets and watching thousands lose their jobs and homes as collateral damage from the sub prime mess. Meanwhile, Dubya chortles âEnjoy that $800. Suckers!â
It is also interesting to note that apparently Republicans think that people getting unemployment benefits are lazy bums who don’t want to work. And after all the breaks that business has received in previous Bush tax plans, I really am not sure what the point is of the negotiation over even more breaks. After all, if people don’t have enough income to allow them to buy what businesses are selling, nobody ends up getting much of a stimulus.
The NY Times has a good article on the status of this:
Tentative Deal on Economic Stimulus Plan
As usual, the Democrats in the House are caving in to GOP preferences.
Dennis - SGMM
Thanks, GP!
Tlaloc
Obviously this is a give away to the prolife crowd. Notice how the more kids you have the larger your rebate is?
I’m outraged the dems would shill for the prolifers like that.
[/sarcasm]
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
It’s very much so the idea. The primary idea is to live while staying the fuck within your means. Don’t go into debt. Don’t buy the house that’s too large. Stop having kids. Send the kids to state school. Destroy your credit cards. Get rid of the SUV and get a Civic.
Middle-class America is mired in quicksand because it’s sloppy. By definition, “middle-class” is comprised of people capable of grinding out a workable life. If they don’t, it’s because they’re reckless.
$75,000 single/$150,000 is just middle class now?
Wow, regular Wal-Mart customers just got kicked into shitstain-class, huh?
we donât want your votes because you are too rich.
Face
June, eh? I was under the impression we were gettin them in weeks. I stand corrected.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
No, rehab costs too much money. I hear it’s like $4 for bus fare. Do you know how much that is? That’s like 2 forties of High Life.
I’ll have to go back to the stand-by 100 bottles of Wild Turkey.
Tim (the other one)
So, it’s pay off some credit card debt. Put out a fire (bills) that’s immediately in front of you. Or say f*** it, and go buy a “toy”.
That’s about it.
zzyzx
“$75,000 single/$150,000 is just middle class now?”
In a large city, yes $75k is middle class these days. It’s hard to think of people who can’t afford a mortgage for a small home as being rich.
Dennis - SGMM
NPR just quoted an IRS spokesdouche as saying that it would be June, at the earliest. Methinks maybe a couple of months later so that the Repub candidate can tout how his party saved the economy – now make them tax cuts permanent, dammit!.
wasabi gasp
This whole plan is just so embarrassingly stupid.
My little fuck-yoo fantasy is that everybody takes their happy check and buys a one-way ticket out of Dodge.
zzyzx
BTW, it’s not true that $75,001 gets nothing apparently.
Source
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Yeeeeeah, the economic plan will be functioning outside large cities. I would consider a New York an exception, considering there will be plenty of work over here.
Well, the housing market is the exception we’re dealing with at this point, innit? You should keep it from warping your perception.
You can be middle class in an apartment.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I need an editor, but he’d kill me before the end of the day.
Dr. Squid
So what you’re saying is that not only is Aravosis a whiny turd, but he’s also too lazy to fact-check?
I’m guessing he’s going to get those extra bottles of Laphroiag by sleeping with Katherine Harris.
The Other Steve
I live in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. $75k/150k places you smack dab in the middle of middle class. Yeah, it’s probably about the median, so half the middle class will get something, but the other half is fucked.
It’s just appallingly stupid to call people in this income range RICH. Completely utterly stupid.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Aravosis is out panhandling, so he asked me to fill in.
Aravosis: But I plan on becoming a billionaire within the next 2 days, after my brilliant invention (a feather duster with a built-in mp3 player) take-off. Any day now.
I demand the government extend this to billionaires. I can’t be expected to lose $600 while those dirt poor people making $65K are all driving Lamborghinis! That’s social injustice!!
Dennis - SGMM
Thank heavens for that. Now we’ll be spared the sight of people in Lexus SUV’s scouting for aluminum cans and deposit bottles.
zzyzx
“Well, the housing market is the exception weâre dealing with at this point, innit? You should keep it from warping your perception.
You can be middle class in an apartment.”
I guess when I think “rich,” I think owning yachts and luxury cars and flying first class and things like that.
75k is a nice living, don’t get me wrong, but even with my pre-bubble mortgage for a non-impressive home, money can get tight at times.
…then again, I’m recovering from a bunch of crises last year (new roof on the house, hospitalization, a bunch of things all breaking in the middle of it) so maybe I’ll feel richer when all of this exciting debt is finally paid off.
Zifnab
If I was making $100k/year, I wouldn’t need your pissant $300 check. You’ve got people making minimum wage, bringing home $10k/year, and just scraping by. These are the people who stimulate your economy. Even in New York or DC, where making $40k is chicken scratch, who are you fooling with a $1200 stimulus check? Talk about taking a knife to a gun fight. Oh horray! I made rent this month. Now I’ve got to figure out how I’m going to do it next month.
Unemployment and food stamps – the sort of benefits that target people who desperately need help – are off the table and we hear bitching about the guy making $75k + a dollar? What about the guy making $0k? You think he could use some extra economic stimulus? I’m betting he’s not going to stuff the money in his mattress.
And the best part, the hands-down absolutely fantastic part, is how we’ve totally glossed over the business tax cuts. Why the hell are we giving out more business tax cuts? Why do businesses need this money all of a sudden? Its a housing slump. Who’s getting foreclosed on? Wallie or Walmart? Who’s going to lose his job? Jay or JD Edwards?
God damn fucking Democrats.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Holy shit, Katherine Harris’s uterus bears bottles of Laphroiag?!! NO WONDER people liked her enough to vote with her.
John Cole is probably ordering a flight down there as we speak. I hope he remember to pack some Xanax. He’ll need it.
Face
NFW that’s “middle of middle class”. Nope
Wes
I live in the DC area, in one of the most expensive counties of the region — if not the nation. I can sympathize with someone who says it is expensive to live here. I can even see that $75,000/year is not Rockefeller money around here. However, if you at that income are bitching that you’re not getting a $300 or $600 check that wasn’t even in the realm of possibility a week ago, you need to smack yourself upside the head.
John Aravosis, if you need that $600 that badly, fire your financial manager. Obviously he hasn’t been working out to well for you.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
THANK YOU.
I’m guaranteed 70K. I still don’t need it. I’ve paid parking ticket more expensive than $300.
/high-fives Zifnab
HFT (Highlighted For Truth).
Learn it well.
The Other Steve
Neither. It’s a “We feel your pain” plan.
AlphaFactor
Guys, I want to go on the record here and assert my belief that the article was “spoof.” Even if the author did have misgivings about the pending legislation, it wasn’t anything like what he was stating overtly.
What I’m a little surprised about really is that a lot of you guys here aren’t openly acknowledging it was a spoof.
I can understand why you wouldn’t bother if it was totally obvious it was a spoof… but, I’m not sure if I would consider it THAT obvious.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Holy shit.
I’m going to give my valentine to Wikipedia. If she’ll have me.
ThymeZone
Well, thanks to the GOP, that may end up being just about all of us.
Thanks, George. Really, heckuva job.
Ed Drone
Hmmm… the ‘stimulus’ payoff is $300, right? So $300/25 is $12. Where the hell do you get Laphroig at $12 a bottle? At that price, I’ll take 50 bottles, please, and then sell them for $20 and keep the profits. Even if you use the $600 figure someone floated above, it comes out to $12 a bottle, which is still way cheaper than I see it on the shelves around here.
For the sake of truthiness, I have to say I like McCallan’s and Knockando better, anyway. But those don’t sell for under $25 even on sale, either.
Wow. I think I live in the wrong place.
As for the stimulus, and whether we’ll be paying off the banks or repaying the IRS, without it, we’d still be paying, eh?
Ed
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I don’t think it’s a spoof. I think it’s a 19 year old with a computer that doesn’t know what kind of pain is about to befall the market. (To be honest, I don’t think even I realize it).
Besides, he’s like
OH NOES, $75000+ gets no money!
Fucking poor people getting money!
Don’t they know rich people want that money, too?
(Rich people are those that make 75000 or more)
Republicans only care about rich people.
Fucking rich people!
Fucking Republicans caring about rich people!
Fucking Democrats caring about poor people!
I’d love to believe it was a spoof, but of what? A schizophrenic? The only consistent thing I found is: he thinks he deserves money.
buford puser
Reality check from NYC: I make just over $80,000, my wife makes not much running a consulting biz from home, we have a child who attends public school.
We rent in a small one bedroom in a working-class neighborhood outside Manhattan. I ride a bicycle everywhere, my wife drives a used SUV that cost us a bit under $4 grand. We could never conceivably afford to own property in the city.
We eat & pay our bills, it’s true, but we sure don’t live high on the hog.
I work with genuinely poor folks & am not arguing that I am poor (although I would spend any rebate immediately), & perhaps I should not have gotten an expensive education or had a kid, but the cost of living in big rich cities is a real issue.
Of course we could move, but as they say, when you leave the city, you ain’t going nowhere; we wouldn’t trade our modest lifestyle for more material things somewhere less psychically rewarding.
The Other Steve
Maybe not, but it sure would help.
Is this about economic stimulus, or are you just trying to buy the votes of the poor?
Haltelcere
20 years ago I would have had a particular problem with this tax rebate. Back then a large portion of the people who made $3000 and didn’t pay taxes were high school kids who were forced to get summer jobs for “character building”.
But now all those kids are too busy playing video games to have summer jobs, and the rebate check will go more into the pockets of people working their second or third minimum-wage job who are just trying to get ahead.
Nylund
People who think that its hard to live in NYC with ONLY $75, are stupid douchebags who think its their god-given right to have a doorman and elevator and to eat organic mango chutneys every night. Do what the rest of us do. Live within our means. I lived in NYC for years while making 30-40k. That was tough at times, but doable, and I was in Manhattan.
And seriously, why does a BLOGGER, who works from home, NEED to live in an expensive city center for any reason other than vanity? If you can’t afford your downtown condo life, don’t expect others to help you out. Move to a place you can afford dumb ass. You don’t “deserve” the excitement of the city more than anyone else.
“Oh, its so unfair that poor people are starving and getting money and no one is paying for my Orchid’s plant food! its so unfair!! Poor people should pay for my orchids! Won’t anyone think of my orchids??! Don’t people know how expensive my personally chosen lifestyle is? I’m so depressed I’m going to go buy some organic imported micro-brew for $6 a bottle and maybe a nice pate and book another flight to France.”
Cry me a river.
The Other Steve
Wouldn’t it be nice if you had a political party that cared about everybody? Rich or poor, it didn’t matter.
Instead both sides get fucked over.
The Other Steve
None of this is helping your argument.
Seriously, you guys sound like Michelle Malkin going off about counter tops.
Dennis - SGMM
And this turkey hasn’t gone to the Senate yet. Harry Reid is sending out for some industrial-strength kneepads as we speak.
Alan
After the last seven years, I’m surprised we need more stimulus. IMO, the country needs to tighten its belt and quit inflating bubble after bubble after bubble.
ThymeZone
Also to be known as the GWBush Public Housing Tubes.
cleek
the checks are $600 per person, $1200 per couple. $1200 / 25 = $48. that’s about what it cost the last time i bought a bottle here in NC. it’s cheaper in other states.
Grand Moff Texan
Once again, legal gay marriage (and adoption) would change Aravosis’ perspective on things.
Might even make him a Republican again.
.
Tsulagi
Naw, not so.
Everyone knows Dems getting the checks will rush out to buy abortions. Theyâre already working hard to get knocked up in eager anticipation.
Straight Pubs (vanishing demographic) with pregnant wives are now sneaking up behind them to scare them hoping to induce early labor. In case thereâs a cutoff date. They just know a tax cut/rebate will make them rich.
Healthcare wins again.
Dennis - SGMM
Under the Bush administration, and under that of whoever follows him for two or three administrations, sleeping in the subways and under bridges shall be known as “Found Housing” rather than the depressing “Homelessness.”
ThymeZone
Not spoof, I didn’t make it up. It’s an article from Fox News.
Will everyone just please stop the whining, bitching and moaning and get off their fat asses and get to work?
Jon H
The best stimulus would probably come from a check with the requirement that it be taken out of the country, converted into foreign currency, and then used to buy something made in the USA.
That way, the money would help the trade deficit too.
So c’mon everyone, drive across the border and buy some good old American porn.
Ike
Correct me if I’m wrong but this is all to do about nothing.
If your w-2 says you make 75k, your stated income according to the IRS is not 75k but is 75k minus your standard deductions – any other deductions (if you itemize.) By my count the only people who make 75k gross and have a stated income of 75k are people who:
– live at home with their parents
– their parents still claim them as a dependent.
If that’s the case, then you don’t deserve a dime in rebates. Leave the comfort of home, support yourself and your rebate will be arriving shortly!
Jon H
” Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television. Over half own two or more color televisions.”
Yeesh. I hate this argument. Pineapples used to be such luxury items that people would rent them for display at parties, hoping nobody would be so gauche as to slice into it, as that would cost a fortune. (This is part of why pineapples appear as details in Revolutionary-era architecture, flagpoles, etc.)
Aluminum was a precious metal in the 1800s.
Times change. What is expensive today may not be in the future.
zzyzx
Oh if they’re talking net instead of gross, that definitely changes things :)
Zifnab
Yes, and Bill’O says that homeless veterans don’t exist. So… horray.
You’ll forgive me if I find any FOX News report a little wildly inaccurate or fabricated. And look, the report was compiled by the Heritage Foundation. According to them, I think Syria still has WMDs. Right after we stop caring about poverty, perhaps we can run off and kill us some WMD-hide’n terr’rists.
oh really
Naturally, it’s a travesty.
After all, we already do SO much for the poor in this country.
Isn’t it obvious that the average poor person in this country is rich? Richer even than the average millionaire. And all because our tax structure is geared to punish the wealthy and middle class so that poor people can vacation in St. Moritz.
Anne Laurie
Well, to be fair, Aravosis doesn’t have the option of doubling his rebate by getting married. Maybe he should just have presented it as another gay-rights issue. Certainly if Jesse Malkin gets an extra $600 for
sockpuppetrybeing a househusband, so should the lesbian couple down the block, yes?Lee
Here is my perspective as someone who will probably not get a check (even a reduced check).
My wife and I both work and both make pretty good money but less than $100k each and have 2 kids. We live in suburb of Dallas. We live comfortably, but not extravagantly (sp?). No real credit card debt (maybe a couple of grand post-christmas). We could not be more generic whitebread middle class if I wore polyester to work.
Yes I do consider us middle-class. It must a perception thing because most of who we hang with also consider themselves middle class. Do I know those in other economic brackets? yes.
Would $1200 be a big impact on our lives? No.
Would we spend the $1200? Yes. Probably on items we have been putting off on purchasing (e.g. a new video card, a Mac for my wife, etc).
Does it piss me off that they come up with some arbitrary number that excludes us? Hell yes.
If this is supposed to be a stimulus package why not cast a wider net? Especially those getting hammered with taxes (see above example of how wage income is taxed versus investment income).
One this that mitgates my irration is that if Bush the Lesser follows Bush the Greater’s lead everyone who gets this rebate will have to turn around and pay taxes on it (IIRC, Bush T.G. did the same thing twice during his 4 years and those that received it had to turn around and pay taxes on it).
Haltelcere
A $600 rebate is $1.65 for each day of the year.
Which is 0.8% of $75,000, or 2% of $30,000 for a single person without kids.
(obviously a percentage comparison of money that is take-home pay vs. paid wages will be somewhat different.)
Now, put aside the “Give me mine – fuck everyone else” mentality, who is best going to a) benefit from this rebate and b) do something with the money that will provide the greatest help to the economy?
If you are barely hanging on making $75,000 or more as a single person, you have deeper financial problems than what this measly (compared to your salary) rebate will solve.
And if you are in an industry that relies on consumers purchasing your products, this rebate may actually save your job – it is always the middle-management that gets cut first when corporations “tighten the belt”.
ThymeZone
For me, this was the money quote.
Who knew? I thought the lazy little pickaninnies just wouldn’t go out and work.
Pooh
As a former Minneapolitan, I call bullshit. Strongly.
Andrew
A-fucking-men.
And guess what? The median household income of New York City residents is LOWER than the national median household income. I hate the whiners who are earning nearly six figures complain about their difficult lives. STFU already.
D-Chance.
So… will the Democrats call a press conference and put a muffler on display again?
4tehlulz
And then they will be criticized for working instead of staying at home.
ThymeZone
I think we finally see the Republican solution to the immigration problem:
Make Americans so poor, they’ll want to move to Mexico.
Andrew
QFT. Unfortunately, the politicians want the votes, so that means the middle and upper middle class, not so much the poor.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
except, if he makes $75K, he gets a check and if he’s got a partner who makes $75K, that partner gets their own check too. $150K –> 2x rebate. No Marriage defense here. :)
Brachiator
It’s all a plot engineered by Steve Jobs to get people to buy ipods (AP News story):
Apple shares continued to take a beating Wednesday, a day after the company reported disappointing iPod music player sales for the holiday quarter and offered a weak outlook for the current quarter.
Apple’s (NasdaqGS:AAPL – News) stock fell 10.65% to 139.07 in heavy trading, a four-month closing low. The stock is down 30% this year.
Analysts question whether Apple can offset slowing iPod sales with rising sales of other products and services.
Apple sold 22.1 million iPods in the fiscal 2008 first quarter that ended Dec.29. Analysts were expecting 24 million to 25 million.
ThymeZone
Bush Administration’s new slogan for people enjoying their Fat Cat Tax Cuts:
“They hate us for our financial freedom.”
D-Chance.
And, btw, if I interpret this right…
then that’s my upper limit. And the last time they did the $300 rebate thing, my check was only $105+ change.
The joys of self-employment. Tons of deductions (no income taxes paid in over a decade), but no goody-giveaways.
NonyNony
You know, lost in the struggle of “who’s getting what where” is the whole idea that this little kabuki is supposed to be a stimulus package.
You know – this money is supposed to do something that will make the economy rebound. Inject some cash out there to get things moving.
I don’t see how it does it. Ours will go into savings. My neighbors’ will probably go to pay down credit card bills (on the one side) or towards some of their outstanding medical debt (on the other) – neither of which really seems like it’ll help the economy out much.
$600, $1200 – what does it matter? Better to think about ways that might actually prop up the economy, maybe restore some confidence that our real estate isn’t going to crash through the floor or something, rather than throwing bread at them and trying to find a circus.
RSA
If I’m reading this Wikipedia page correctly, 13% of individuals in the U.S. earn more than $75K per year; the numbers don’t go into households above or below $150K, but 17% are above $150K. I know that the cost of living in some areas makes people earning that amount of money middle class at best, but I think the original linked post is off-base in suggesting that because the plan covers “only” 87% of the U.S. earners, Democrats don’t care about the middle class.
ThymeZone
Hey! God commanded that rebates were to be matched only between a man and a woman.
Fucketh not with the word of God, my friend, lest ye roast forever in the fires of eternal Hell.
James F. Elliott
Um, so, his problem is that the Child Tax Credit was prematurely kicked up to its proposed maximum but not expanded beyond its normal eligibility? Which, by the way, is exactly what the Bush Administration did in time for filing your 2003 taxes in April, 2004?
What a poon.
calipygian
Maybe John should move down to Anacostia. I’m sure he can find more affordable accomodations there.
I make less than 75k/year as an enlisted military guy and live quite comfortably in Alexandria, VA.
He needs to get his head out of his ass and STFU or move.
WATB
pfrets
Best do it quick…before the dollar falls so low it’s on par with the peso!
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
It’s really just a hail-mary pass.
The market is losing money, the government says, “we should give some back”.
Who do we give it to?
Dubya: “My friends!”
Cheney: “He means ‘the rich’.”
Rove (via phone): “Not this time, you tried that already”
Dubya: “But there’s nobody else”
Bernanke: “There’s plenty of people”
Dubya: “How do I choose?”
Bernanke: “I took the liberty of making a special dartboard…”
Dubya: “Neat-o mister! Why does most of it say ‘poor consumer on it’?”
Bernanke: “I distributed it by household income. Just throw the dart.”
Dubya: “I know some poor people!”
Cheney: “He means he knows some gay people”
Bernanke: “Just throw the damn dart”
That’s about it.
The economy gets some money, and now it’s going to the more-powerful, purposeful end of the economy, the spenders, instead of the more focused, nuanced end of the economy, the Rich Fucks. The rest is up to hope.
wasabi gasp
Sounds like we need a shiny new sousaphone for the Bush Tax Cuts Permanence Parade.
Oooompah Oooompah
Darkness
Is there a line forming for this? Suffice to say we will not be getting a check, but I still buy used clothes, because they fit better from the old size model, and because I hate worrying about money. And I hate the mall, too, as the massive glass temple to waste that it is.
People who bitch and moan about the cost of living where they live piss me off. What, someone put a gun to your head and forced you to live there? Move your ass somewhere cheaper, or shut the f**k up. You _choose_ to live where you live, so don’t blame that on someone else. The amenities of your home either make up for it, or not. Only you can decide that, but don’t go whining to the world if it doesn’t, FIX IT. I live in the wilds of Upstate and get nothing but hick commentary from you city folk. Yeah, and guess what, Avarosis, we live like kings, our house is nearly paid for, and we travel around the world much of the year. You chose your life, we chose ours. Don’t like it? Choose differently. SHEESH.
Sojourner
Yeh. Because that person’s share of his/her taxes that will go towards the stimulus package will be a hell of a lot more than that.
Zifnab
PotD!
Fe E
A little bit of a side question, did anybody in DC even for a minute consider just investing that money in, oh I don’t know–THE COUNTRY? Things like roads, Air Traffic Control, shit like that. It isn’t like we don’t need that anyhow, it’d by definition have to move through the economy, so there would be employment, and we wouldn’t have this “I ain’t gettin’ noe, fuck you” deabate.
I know as well as everybopdy on here that that type of plan wouldn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell, but it would be nice to think somebody at least mentioned it.
Jen
Isn’t the point of things like this to give people money quickly (“quickly” = this summer), and that rather forecloses the option of bickering back and forth about the various factors that make $75k for one person different from $75k for another? Maybe I have a six-figure student loan and my medical bills are in collections, and maybe you live in a house your parents left you free and clear — even if we have the same income our respective buying power is quite different. So just as the government isn’t going to get into these distinctions, they aren’t going to get into the cost of living where you live, either. If you gave a bump to the ten most expensive cities, I guarantee you’d hear the gnashing of teeth from San Diego or whatever the 11th city is.
I guess I’m saying, hey, I take the point that there are cities more expensive than others, but it’s a pretty blunt instrument. You get the same “kid bonus” per kid even if one kid’s child care costs you $15,000 a year and another doesn’t cost any.
Punchy
If we took all the scratch dumped into eye-rack (500 bill) and distributed it to the same 120 mill households in America as the “stimulus package”, easy math says we all get…..$4,166 dollars.
that’s a stimulus package.
Fe E
And if the point was totally to stimulate the economy they’d do stuff like this
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I wanted to find a clip of Stewie following er.. “cumbersome” people around with a sousa, but Viacom’s still harshing on YouTube. I figured it would fit quite well.
You’d think, for someone who never shuts the fuck up, I’d get one of those someday. Suspicion confirmed. My life mission is complete.
/takes a bow
Zifnab
That’s more of a long-term economic stimulus. We want to get out of the recession yesterday. So we’re doing the “quick fix” so that we can have another six more weeks of economic happiness before the bill comes due.
libarbarian
Hey, thats true. This stimulus objectively promotes the homosexual lifestyle.
How many straight people will take the economic logic to its conclusion and start playing the meat flute just for the extra cash? Why don’t we just pay people to turn gay?
I’m surprised Malkin et al. havent picked up on this.
Brachiator
Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton, riding Day One, the Experience Donkey, is busy announcing her own stimulus plan.
Clinton Spells Out Her Economic Stimulus Plan
Whether this plan is meant to be tacked on to the current proposal, or is just meant to show how presidential she is, is not exactly clear.
Also, clearly demonstrating that she can outdo The Decider in constitutional obtusness, Mrs Clinton also notes, âWe need a president who will run the government and manage the economy,â Mrs. Clinton said at Furman late this morning. âThe American people donât hire a president to talk about our problems, but to solve them.â
I mean, I see the part in the Constitution where the president is vested with the executive power, but this is not quite the same thing as “running the government.”
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I think that’s a bit closer to the plan.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
They’re busy beating
offthe dead body of Heath LedgerMaryS-NJ
Me too. Hubby and I don’t need the rebate nor, it seems, are we eligible. I don’t mind personally, and would rather have paid down the debt. That being said, if I gotten rebate money we would have donated it(or goods equivalent) to the local food panty which does need it. Oh well.
I’m pissed about the FISA thing. I don’t expect much from Republicans but those spineless Democrats… Sigh. I hate being so routinely disappointed.
Gus
Lemme guess, the Other Steve. Edina? West Bloomington? Minnetonka? Wayzata? I live in what I would consider a middle class neighborhood in South Mpls, and my wife and I don’t even make even $100,000 together, let along $150k. The neighbors I know in my neighborhood are in the same boat. Maybe we’re lower class? Lower middle?
Ninerdave
The problem that Aravosis uncovers while whining about not getting a check is that lower, middle and upper classes vary by region. What is middle class in one part of the nation is poverty in another. Talking about classes in broad terms is useless.
James F. Elliott
Wait, I take it back: It’s not even a part of the Child Tax Credit; it’s a rebate that’s structured similarly. But, since it’s not a credit, over 94% of American households will receive it. So, this rebate does the exact opposite of what Mr. Aravosis claims it does.
I was slightly wrong, but he’s still a poon.
srv
It’s official, Wolfie is now heading a Foggy Bottom board that misunderestimates arms control.
Returning soon with new assessments on guess who next month?
Badtux
Those of you who think $75K a year is good money obviously live someplace where you can buy a home for $150K or rent a 3 bedroom apartment for $650 a month. I live in the SF Bay area and have a six figure income. I live in a 640 square foot 1 bedroom apartment. A 700 square foot condo anywhere in the Bay Area outside of East Palo Alto or East Oakland (i.e., cracktown) will cost you a *minimum* of $600K. And if your job is here, you really don’t have a choice, other than driving for four hours a day from the Central Valley. The upside is that we get paid a salary large enough to afford this. Which isn’t much of an upside, because you inbred losers from flyover country are intent on stealing it all from us.
So it appears that you flyover country dimwits who don’t make diddly nowdays except cow patties and farm fields believe that a) we should be punished for living in the most innovative, dynamic places in the country rather than in your dismal trailerparks full of meth-heads, losers, and old people (and don’t give me no guff here, I *KNOW*, I lived there for the first twenty years of my life and get on my knees and thank God that now, in the prime of my life, I can live alongside intelligent, thoughtful, creative people rather than be back there), and b) the fact that we pay more in taxes than we get back in services is just fair because we make more money (you flyover state people are a buncha welfare whores, without us creative people in the creative states you’d be eating your cow flops because we’re propping your loser asses up), and thus c), it’s only fair that we get reamed up the ass yet *again* so you welfare whores can take more of *our* money and spend it on whatever you losers spend it on (probably meth or hillbilly heroin, my property manager for my properties back in Flyover Country regularly has to check vacant properties because the meth-heads break in and cook their crank in there when they’re not busy stripping out all the wiring and plumbing to sell for more fuel for their meth habit).
Fuggitall. I say that we set you people free to control your own destinies. California alone has the 6th largest economy in the world. Used to be 5th largest, until you losers dragged us down subsidizing your meth habits…
— Badtux the Rude Penguin
ThymeZone
John Gibson is just one horrendous piece of shit, a disgrace to the human race.
Which in and of itself is not that noteworthy, it’s that he’s a horrendous piece of shit with a fucking tv show on national cable television.
James F. Elliott
But Aravosis is certainly right, that if you are going for political theatre they basically just told the middle class to fuck off, we donât want your votes because you are too rich
No, they didn’t: The rebates are not tax credits. You get one regardless of your income tax liability. Everyone is getting a little bit (at least $300 — can you not read?). If you have children, you are getting a $300 per child (up to 4 children) more. These rules are based on two programs thought up by Republicans — TANF eligibility (which establishes the 4 child cap on federal benefits) and the Child Tax Credit (up to $1,000 per child by 2010 based on income tax liability; no liability (as in poor), no credit).
Also, since they’re not credits and not tied to liability, that means everyone with kids making under $75K (if a single parent) or $150K (married) gets to cash in. The median household income in the U.S. in 2006 was $48,201. In fact, only 5.84% of households filed at above $150K last year.
The Democrats’ plan does the exact opposite of what Aravosis says.
So, Aravosis is complaining that this plan privileges the groups of people who spend more of their income on consumables. Sounds like… a good way to increase consumer spending, like an economic stimulus plan should. As opposed to giving it to him, which seems to be the real cause of his whining.
FS
I want to throw a “howdy” to John from my mansion in Topeka. Just thought you ought to know that it takes at least $80,000 a year to afford a 5,000 aquare foot mansion out here.
Dracula
Damn straight we are. You fuckers went and decided that a fair price to live in a state with mudslides, earthquakes, torrential rain, fires, tornados, occasional blizzards, and a smog so thick it could hold a clipboard is some insanely high amount of scratch that no one could really afford so all your fucking companies pay you some artifically high (read: subsidized) salary just to be able to pay the prices for homes that aren’t even close to fair value, and when it crashes, all you sorry ass bitches come crying to Big Daddy Banker about how upside down your mortgage is. Here’s a tissue.
Michael D.
John Aravosis is EXACTLY RIGHT.
God forbit we actually give back money to the people who earned it.
wasabi gasp
Flat Tax, Bitches!
calipygian
Uh, been anywhere in the Central Valley/along the Central Coast from Sacramento to Santa Barbara lately?
Monterey Country considers it a good week when a meth lab doesn’t blow up.
Mr. Mxyzptlk
Awesome post, Badtux
TRex
Pamâs House Blend and Firedoglake to name a couple (even though Firedoglake is pretty mainstream now).
I’m over here now!
http://iamtrex.com
James F. Elliott
God forbit we actually give back money to the people who earned it
Do they not teach you basic reading comprehension in libertarian fantasy land?
Ninerdave
Oh come on. Now, I think this “stimulus” package is a stupid idea, another case of doing something to look like you’re doing something (and in this case putting us in debt to do so) However if you are going to do it, the lower class and poor will actually spend the money, the middle and upper class people will either save the money or use it to pay off debt.
This isn’t meant to be a tax cut.
Larv
I really hope this is spoofery or satire of some sort. Unfortunately, I suspect it isn’t. This is the same tired old “it’s not FAIR!” argument so beloved of conservatives. The problem with this here is that fairness is a pretty poor measure of an economic stimulus plan. The point is to get the money into the hands of consumers who will spend it, rather than banking it. That’s it. It’s not to distribute government revenues in an equitable manner. I’m sure there are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize the stimulus plan, but a lack of fairness to the middle class ain’t one of them.
Brachiator
This is beyond stupid if you really think that people who make less than $75K are not actually earning their income.
By the way, here is former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich on stimulus plans:
What sort of stimulus? Since 80 percent of Americans pay more in payroll taxes than they do in income taxes, and because middle and lower-income people are far more likely to spend whatever tax relief they get than higher-income people, the best stimulus would offset the payroll tax. And the easiest way to do this is through a refundable tax credit, effective as soon as possible. I’ve looked at what the candidates are offering. Obama’s stimulus package seems to me to be the most reasonable. It would give a direct, immediate boost to the economy. In my view, its tax cuts for workers and extra social security payments for seniors offer the fastest and most efficient way to get more purchasing power into the economy.
The full blog entry here:
We Need a Stimulus Now, But What Kind?
Larv
Or, um, what Ninerdave said. I need to type faster.
lee
Under what assumption are you making this claim?
You can point to that SecOfLabor fellow but all he claims is that there are those that are more likely to spend as opposed to invest.
Wouldn’t spending AND investing the stimulus package actually be better long term than just spending?
Ninerdave
No, because the idea behind this is to “stimulate” the economy, e.g. get people to buy stuff. The purpose of which is to reduce supply and increase demand which in theory will get the economy heading in a positive direction again. If people are holding on to the money the government gives them to spend, it’s not doing reducing supply and increasing demand.
As I said above, I don’t think this is going to do shit aside from add more to the deficit, but that’s the theory.
The Other Steve
Giving SCHIP to families making $100k = Prudent
$300 tax rebate = OH MY GOD! THOSE RICH BASTARDS DON’T NEED IT!
Ninerdave
Oh and I should add this is supposed to be a strictly short term measure.
Long term thinking from politicians in an election year? HA!
srv
Tux, well said, but don’t blow a gasket, man. Just head down to Toronado and sip Delirium Tremens.
Darkness
You go right ahead, Waterless World. Last I checked you Californians were sucking dry the neighboring, what, 6-8 states? Yeah, you go off and go it alone. Your neighbors would be freakin’ pleased about that… they want their water back.
In 1986 I was in California and this guy yelled at me, yelled not argued, he was pissed, that I, from Michigan, was withholding Great Lakes water from California. That we were hogging it all. What a spoiled nutcase. After that I decided any water issue should from hereforth be decided in California’s disfavor. Jebesus H, you Californians wanted a freakin’ pipeline 3000 miles freakin’ long so you could fill your stupid swimming pools, I guess. Get a grip on reality, please.
Back to your original point. You enjoy where you live, despite the price. That’s great (no sarcasm, really). I would hope so, otherwise you’re silly to live there. This is just a value proposition, and clearly for Avarosis it doesn’t pay out. For you it does. I’m just a purveyor of the, “if you aren’t happy, change something,” mentality.
TRex
It’s time like these that you can really see that Aravosis has only been a democrat for four or five years. He’s still got that GOP silver foot in his mouth.
(No offense meant to our recently minted Democrat host, Mr. Cole. He seems to have gotten it right fairly quickly.)
Brachiator
No. A lot of this stuff, from both parties, is just political theater. Dubya is just looking for more opportunities to give businesses tax breaks. The Democrats think that by targeting tax cuts and rebates, they will achieve something.
But the fundamental problem is that wages, especially throughout the middle class are relatively stagnant, real purchasing power has declined (as food, fuel and housing costs eat up more of people’s incomes), and the new jobs that are created don’t really pay well.
If it were up to me, I would try to make unemployment compensation portable, so that a person could more easily move out of a state where there were no jobs to a new job location, but still receive (or get credit for) unemployment compensation from the old state. I like the idea of giving a credit for social security taxes. I would try something that might actually encourage job creation. Note now how a company’s stock often shoots up when the company lays people off.
A one time shot of $300 or $800 or whatever the magic number is just will not accomplish very much. How do we know? The last rebate did not stimulate the economy worth a damn. But Dubya stubbornly clings to whatever he thinks he knows, and the Democrats want so election-season credit for doing something for “the people” and for showing that they can be bi-partisan.
Larv
It doesn’t really matter if they need it or not, it’s whether they can be counted on to spend it quickly that’s important. A lower cutoff both increases the odds of this happening and reduces the price of the package. Set it higher and it becomes more expensive, with diminishing returns. That this is unfair to a certain segment of the middle class who live in areas with high standards of living is unfortunate, but not particularly relevant to the stated purpose.
Digital Amish
Way late to the game but this whole boondoggle is eating at my craw. It’s not a stimulus package, it’s an incumbant protection plan. It’s a continuation of the borrow and spend plan that’s gotten us (as a country and as individuals) to our current situation. The money will either be transfered to credit and mortgage holders or sent to Asia for HDTVs or Mp3 players. Maybe a few longshoremen will get a couple of extra shifts offloading COSCO containers. That’s about the extent of the stimulus.
Michael D: It’s not your money anymore. It’s the governments. Consider it your dues for living in America.
Gemina13
Holy. Shit.
So these WATBs are screeching because they won’t get a measly $300-$600? Tell those assholes to get the fuck off the crosses. It’s snowing out West and we need the wood for our fireplaces.
I make 2/3 of that amount, and I still don’t need the $600 that will probably come my way. Then again, I have my credit card debt nearly paid off, I own an old car outright, and I don’t eat out at restaurants or bars every night. To these people, I’m probably boring as hell, but I was also raised by a Depression baby who grew up eating squirrels and anything her mother could forage because a coal miner’s salary went fuck-all nowhere. My mother taught me to stretch a dollar better than Torquemada.
Grow the fuck up, Aravosis.
At any rate, it’s nothing more than a loan on next year’s taxes. Mine will go right into my 401K. What the hell; I might as well earn some future income off it.
sglover
Unemployment and food stamps â the sort of benefits that target people who desperately need help â are off the table and we hear bitching about the guy making $75k + a dollar? What about the guy making $0k? You think he could use some extra economic stimulus? Iâm betting heâs not going to stuff the money in his mattress.
And the best part, the hands-down absolutely fantastic part, is how weâve totally glossed over the business tax cuts. Why the hell are we giving out more business tax cuts? Why do businesses need this money all of a sudden? Its a housing slump. Whoâs getting foreclosed on? Wallie or Walmart? Whoâs going to lose his job? Jay or JD Edwards?
God damn fucking Democrats.
My thoughts exactly. This travesty is just the latest short-sighted, unprincipled, gutless Democratic betrayal. Lefties and liberals and progressives just have to get past this idea that because the Republicans are so awful (which they undeniably are), they have to keep playing Stockholm Syndrome with the Jackass.
My ideological comrades are gonna turn out in ’08 and help hand the Dems a sweep, and you know what they’re gonna get in return? We’re still going to be in Iraq. We’re still going to pissing away about a TRILLION dollars a year on “defense”. Health care “reform” is going to be written by and for the same corporate oligarchs who control the health care “system” now. And in the process, when they prove utterly incapable of cleaning up all the shit from the Bush years, they’ll discredit progressive ideas AGAIN!!
Don’t vote for them. Vote for anyone else, or don’t vote at all — because that’s a vote, too. Let the GOP take the blame it deserves for the Bush criminal spree. And teach the Dems that they don’t get to hold you hostage.
sglover
Yeesh. I hate this argument. Pineapples used to be such luxury items that people would rent them for display at parties, hoping nobody would be so gauche as to slice into it, as that would cost a fortune. (This is part of why pineapples appear as details in Revolutionary-era architecture, flagpoles, etc.)
Interesting. Also, it gives a whole new meaning to the phrase “one the dole”.
David Moisan
On color TV’s and pineapples, I hate the “poor have ” with a freaking passion. I remember Paul Harvey on his radio show years ago going on and on about welfare queens, “the poor people of today have *color TV*!” Of course, he came from a time where color TV’s would be over $3000 in today’s money (1954).
That’s still inexcusable demagoguery. Especially when there is no mention that color TV’s, like cellphones today, are all but impossible not to have, what with all the hand-me-down sets sometimes literally floating along on the curb, in someone’s yard-sale, etc.
Like my favorite quote from Max Headroom, “they *give* TV’s to the needy!” Consumer electronics, unless they have diamonds on them, are a very poor way of determining “wealth”.
Tim in SF
With Americablog, you gotta take the good with the bad, I suppose. John A is profoundly selfish and self-centered. He says he is no longer a republican, but he still acts like one outside of the voting booth. His daily writings range from tolerable to insufferable, and he is without a doubt the worst contributor on his own blog. Still, there are posts like this that I don’t see anywhere else, which is why Americablog remains in my RSS reader.
Gus
Badtux, why the fuck do you think I live in Minneapolis? The weather? I’d move to SF in a minute if I could afford it. You made your choice, you get to live in SF. It’s expensive to live there for a reason. Jesus Christ, do I really have to explain it to you?
Andrew
Oh jesus, not another one. How do you ever survive on your pidly six figures!!????!
The median household income for San Francisco is under $60,000. So yeah, if you’re earning the $75,000 of the stimulus cutoff, you’re at 125% of the median HOUSEHOLD income and you’re doing just fucking fine and really shouldn’t be a whiny asshole about it.
Fine, you’re not in the upper half of Palo Fucking Alto at $75k. Boo hoo. Move 5 miles down the road to Redwood City and you’re back in the top half again. At six figures, you’re above the median HOUSEHOLD income of Palo Alto, one of the richest fucking cities in the world.
Yes, I have lived in the Bay Area. I know it’s a lot more expensive than Bumblefuck, Arkansas. But enough with the bitching about “only” earning six figures. I am unsympathetic to your complaints, to put it mildly, and it makes you look like an ass.
Chuck Butcher
oh boy, thanks for …. something. These idjits have cost me 20x that pissant “rebate” over 7 yrs of BushCo. Between total non-enforcement of legal hiring practices and shoving dollars into the investment class one end of my market is gone, blue collar & lower middle class are trailer house bait (fine, modular), my legal help costs me too much (not enough for them) per sq ft bid since market is driven by the cheats. Now they’ve killed housing altogether with crap loans. I don’t have much sympathy for people who bought McMansions who should’ve bought a house, but a lot of people got pushed into subprimes who didn’t belong there and ARMs are a disaster waiting to happen.
The “rebate” will go to Walmart so it can go back to China where we borrowed it in the first place. I’d have preferred an investment in infrastructure, though Halliburton – et al, would’ve gotten most of it. They just gave business a tax break to get minimum wage hike…
I’m a business, I don’t need a tax break, I need workers who’re paid decently and a goddam market. I never needed a housing bubble, but a busted one is way down my list of tolerable, this may finish me off. Anything like a cushion has gone to wages and skyrocketing insurance (liability + 600% in 5 yrs – no claims), the last year has been hand to mouth.
Ah well, whine whine. I live in a 1600 sq ft house, 1878 Victorian I rebuilt and doubled in size, I don’t make median income – though part of it is tax games of S-Corp, but I still don’t. (Money spent is spent, whether I pay taxes on it or not) Since my kids are grown… I don’t want a fucking rebate, I want to see the guys who work for me make a decent living and not bankrupt me in the process.
zzyzx
Just to clean up a few things, no, people making over $87k do not get the $300. “Everyone” getting that amount means that people who didn’t make enough to pay taxes will get it. It looks like my check will be either $100 or $150. Oh well, I’ll try to survive.
Also the income is based on adjusted gross income, so mortgage deductions and the like don’t come into play alas.
The Other Steve
So it’s agreed them. FUCK THE MIDDLE CLASS!
The Other Steve
Good article unrelated issue.
Ed Drone
I feel your pain (sorry). I happened to look at the Ron Paul economic plan, and it had something in it about reducing business taxes. It occurred to me that businessmen want to maximize profits, so they will keep wages as low as they can and still get workers. And a light-bulb went off. What if we triggered business tax-cuts to the wages they paid? Pay higher wages, we will tax you less!
Now, you would have to determine whether the prevailing wage for the workers you hired was logical ($30/hr special-skill jobs vs. $10/hr entry-level jobs shouldn’t be the comparison), so there would have to be some kind of scale of wages which the businessman could use to determine his wage scale, but a lot of that kind of data is already available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, so there wouldn’t be a need for “increased government bureaucracy” as such.
I don’t know if this idea would “fly,” but it seems logical to me that we already use tax policies to promote social ends (charity deductions, etc.), so why not include paying a livable wage as a target of our tax policies?
Discussion? If any candidate wants to claim this as his/her idea, be my guest. Though I have now placed it in “tangible form,” I will not claim my copyright.
Ed
Dan
Try as I might I just can’t get excited about this one.
The whole idea of a stimulus check is absurd in the extreme and doesn’t appear likely to do anything to actually help the economy.
But since no one in congress has the brass ones to actually address the structural problems that are likely to permanently cripple the US economy I suppose cutting a check to some constituents must strike many of them as a bold move.
I wonder if anyone in congress has considered what will happen to the US economy once central banks around the world stop buying US currency as their primary reserve and foreign investors stop buying T-Bills. Fun fact…that’s already started happening.
Andrew
Can you let me know when we redefined middle class to include the upper quintile of incomes?
If you’re an individual earning over $75k, YOU ARE NOT MIDDLE CLASS. Barely 11% of Americans make this much or more.
Darkness
If this had happened already, we’d be in MUCH better shape. Honestly. This is the ONLY thing that will get the national debt paid down, via the wealthiest 2% I should hope. Put the capital gains tax back near the income tax and we’d be halfway there. Why these other countries haven’t done this is a mystery. We have a worldwide economy set up where the skinny kids at the table are borrowing money to buy the fat kid at the head of it all the candy he can eat. Does that sound sustainable?
This is easier than you think. It would just be a cut in employment taxes where only hourlies would qualify and the cut would be higher the more the company paid out in wage per month. Employment taxes are high enough that this would be noticed (well, not worldwide, high, actually in the U.S. they are dirt cheap). I’m self-employed and pay both sides of social security and employment taxes so I see the impact of this number and it is not insubstantial. I had a lean year a few years back, and my effective tax rate was 54% as a result, due to being both the employee and employer.
F. Frederson
It gets better – Aravosis went and deleted all the comments from yesterday, and is now fisking the few he is allowing through. WATB, indeed.
Thursday
Side track:
In the Canadian West, there was a party called “Social Credit”. The primary promise? Giving everyone in the province (Alberta) three one-dollar certivicates. Hey, it was 1936… Anyway, they had to pay a penny for every certificate they had each week in order for it to be considered “valid” tender, the idea being that people would rather spend the dollars than pay the penny, hence stimulating the economy in a province-wide game of “hot potato”.
Catch the problem(s), there?
This meant nobody wanted to take them as change, and they stopped circulating. The wealthiest folks didn’t bother using them at all. Amazingly, this cunning strategy failed to end the Depression.
Decades later (1979), the SoCreds gained power in British Columbia, and decided what people really wanted was to enjoy the excitement of the stock market – specifically, in the province.
If you’re interested, tell your local advisor you want to buy and trade on the Vancouver Stock Exchange. And watch him blanche. Back to the story.
So they created BCRIC shares, which were shares of a Crown Corporation that bought out bankrupt businesses. Everyone in the province got five shares, to do with what they would. The porest people sold them immediately to buy things like, say, food; the richest quietly dumped them off; and a lot of folks in the middle decided to try hanging on to them to see what happened.
Any guesses?
If you guessed “the company tanked and needed consolidation, rendering the shared worth less than 1% of their previous value”, you’re right!
And you know what? The economy wasn’t all that stimulated by these plans.
This latest idea of a cash giveaway is marginally better than either of those, but only because there is some focus to them, a marginal targeting of largesse. But that is damning with as faint a praise that is to be found.