I think it is safe to say that the CIA torture tape story just hit the big time. Attorney General Mukasey apparently went right past the option of slow-rolling an in-house investigation (does David Addington’s direct line into the AG’s office still connect?) and appointed an outside prosecutor. Better, Mukasey didn’t choose a hack; John Durham has a reputation for taking down big game that ranks up there with Pat Fitzgerald and Elliot Spitzer.
What exactly an “outside prosecutor” does and what degree of independence he has relative to say, Pat Fitzgerald’s investigation remains unclear to me. Any insight about what exactly we can expect from this sort of investigation would be much appreciated.
The administration will certainly hang out a disposable patsy like Scooter Libby Pfc. Lynndie England CIA division head Jose Rodriguez. If Rodriguez accepts the role of loyal fall guy then it may end there. However, a resulting trial probably wouldn’t finish in time for a Bush pardon, so unless the president pulls an Ernie Fletcher Rodriguez could face good honest jail time. Then there is the question of how many such tapes the CIA really had/has (believe they only taped three interrogations? I have some pets.com shares to sell you). If the fall guy doesn’t fall quietly then things could get interesting.
***Update***
Marty Lederman: there is nothing “special” or “outside” about Durham’s appointment. The regular eastern VA US Attorney recused himself so Durham was appointed as acting US Attorney for the purposes of this case.
cleek
whoopie.
Zifnab
If the Fitzgerald investigation is any indication, it’s two years of intense stonewalling followed by a near-the-top White House Admin getting convicted and immediately pardoned of not really committing a crime but doing a damn good job of covering one up.
Keith
Rodriguez was a career, not political, hire, correct? He’ll likely shop for immunity and dime on ’em all. I’d put the odds higher of Bush giving the Fletcher to WH lawyers and whomever was head of the CIA at the time.
RandyH
I wonder if the investigative team will be denied the security clearances needed to investigate. It’s happened before. I can’t remember which scandal it was… they all seem to blur together, there are so many.
Tim F.
It was domestic wiretapping.
Nikki
Didn’t Rodriguez already say he wasn’t going to be the fall guy for this?
Tim F.
I looked for a linky for that but couldn’t find it, so I foreshadowed it instead.
merciless
Well, Rodriguez has already hired a big-gun lawyer, so he’s at least aware of the seriousness of the situation.
My $0.02: Somebody in the WH decided that it would be easier to escape/pardon an obstruction of justice charge than to be charged with war crimes. That’s the very worst charge that will come out of this, and if it sticks, Bush will pardon whomever before he leaves.
Dreggas
Yeah I can’t find it ATM but Rodriguez wanted to testify before congress because he knew they would try and make him the fall guy for this and he wasn’t going to play ball. This Durham guy is going to be Acting AUSA for eastern virginia because that office recused itself so he still ultimately reports to Mukasey according to TPM.
gypsy howell
Having lived through Watergate and Iran Contra I should know this, but can the Prez issue a pardon in advance of a conviction, and does it have to be for a particular crime or can it cover anything that might come up? If so, what’s to stop Bush on 1/19/09 from issuing blanket pardons to all the lucky ducks in his administration (the ones that matter to him anyway).
You know he’d do it if he could.
I guess that would still leave him vulnerable to prosecution, but he’ll be in Paraguay by then, won’t he?
Jim Schmpf
In two years there will be a different “decider”. I.e. no pardon….
Punchy
It’s clear from his name that he’ll soon just be deported. Durham’ll be taking Roddy’s legal depo from a bus depot near a Home Depot in Bacalar, Mexico.
BTW…can Bush really pull a Fletcher and pre-emptively pardon everyone? This seems just ridiculously unConstitutional, but what the hell do I know?
RSA
The phrase appears to be determined not to become the fall guy, from unnamed intelligence sources.
Eric S
As I understand it, and wiki confirms, Gerald Ford gave a pardon to Nixon for any crimes he may have committed.
Jen
Thanks, RSA, this Times Online piece was one I read some time back…
There would be absolutely nothing to be gained from being the fall guy for these losers that you couldn’t get with an immunity deal for testifying, unless I’m missing something…
Zifnab
Right right. You’ll see these 11th hour pardons on Jan 8th, 2009. And when every rational human being throws up his voice in protest, the Republicans will just shout back “Clinton did it too!”
Jake
Fixed.
Dug Jay
I hate to rain on anyone’s parade, but it is very far from clear than any laws have been broken by the destruction of these tapes; jail time for Rodriguez, or anyone else for that matter, remains in the “iffy” stage.
KCinDC
I have yet to hear anyone explain why we shouldn’t expect Bush about a year from now to issue a blanket pardon for all current and former members of his administration for anything they’ve done during it. What exactly would he have to lose?
horatius
I dunno. I’ll believe it when I see it.
They’ll just have this new patsy Jose to commit perjury during his investigation, and when Durham throws Jose in the slammer, G-Dumb will pardon him and then all the major network and Dean Broder, the serial masturbator will write a bipartisan column about the brave prez. If Obama gets elected, he’ll start the healing process by not delving deep into any of these prosecutions, and the usual dirty tricksters will continue working in the shadows.
The trial will be really short. You heard it here first.
horatius
Ha, ha…. You crack me up. No laws were broken. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Really
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha…. Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hmm… *sniff* *sniff*
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Hahahahahaha….. Hahahaha….
Really, stop joking.
horatius
For those who didn’t get the above.
CIA is supposed to tape every interrogation by law.
horatius
Just like the White House is not supposed to destroy any email whatsoever.
Perry Como
HAi GUYZ!
I B DESTROYIN UR TAPES RELATED 2 AN INVESTERMATION! LUL WUT?
ITZ NOT ILLEGALZ!!
Dug Jay
horatius and Perry Coma, two legal experts presumably from Latvia opine on the looming investigation. It’s refreshing to see that they are not at all emcumbered by such elemental factors as basic facts, a scintilla of understanding of the legal concepts involved or concern for accuracy. About par for the course from the inbred Leftards.
STEVEinSC
I think a judge ordered the tapes preserved before they were destroyed.
Asti
When have you known George Bush to consider constitutional legality before?
Jake
Dug Jay, you owe me a new Irony-O-Meter, you bastard.
Bob In Pacifica
Why did the regular U.S. Attorney recuse himself? Was he doing some torturing of his own?
sglover
Echoing horatius. Expect nothing from any of this. Even assuming that some honest bulldog *does* wrench some damning facts out of the usual criminals, the so-called “opposition” party will do NOTHING to back him up. The ONLY thing the Dems care about is their looming victory; little things like the rule of law are boring, right?
horatius
says the racist fuckwad. Go Cheney yourself.
Xenos
“But the tapes in question were in Poland (you forgot about Poland!) at the time. So the Judge did not have jurisdiction over those tapes!”
It is a monumentally stupid, bad-faith legal argument, but you will see it as part of an effort to give the administration an issue that can divert the whole matter into the courts for an appeal as far as the Supreme Court as a way to stall for another nine months or so.
Just killing time until the pardons. Good thing Bush can’t pardon anyone from criminal liability with the Hague.
myiq2xu
You can bet that when Mike the Mook announced he was appointing a special prosecutor that quite a few current and former administration officials suddenly needed clean underwear,
This isn’t just a “scandal” it’s an international war crime, and G-Dub’s pardons stop at the border.
Dug Jay
Not surprisingly, the pre-pubescent myiq2xu doesn’t have a clue as to what he’s talking about. AG Mukasey did NOT name John Durham a “special prosecutor” or a “special counsel;” he simply assigned him to lead the inquiry as a member of the DOJ. Durham will report to the deputy AG and will have no unique or special authorities beyond what DOJ employees receive.
HyperIon
i would say it is an attempt to cover up a war crime.
when Hamdan was announced, several very knowledgeable lawyers expressed this idea: the US war crime legislation uses the language of the Geneva Conventions. Hamdan essentially means that anyone who subjected persons in custody to those acts can be prosecuted as a US war criminal. The video tapes would have been a prize piece of evidence. IANAL but destroying the tapes seems like an obvious case of obstruction of justice.
of course since lawyers ARE involved, this might end up hinging on the “mother-may-i” exception: they (9/11 commision?) forgot to say “the videotapes” in their request for materials.
LarryB
Dug Jay Says:
No, the act of destroying the tapes could be construed as a crime in and of itself because:
A Federal judge ordered the CIA to hand over interrogation-related info for an ACLU FOIA request. Failure to comply (not to mention destroying the requested info after receiving the request), is a crime.
Then there is the little matter of the 9/11 Commission’s request for the same information. A quick Google indicates that they had supoena power. Failure to comply with a supoena is another crime.
Finally (and here’s the really intriguing angle), If the prosecutor is really ambitious, they could go after the torture angle itself as a crime. If so, destroying the tapes would constitute major obstruction and, therefore, a crime.
(cue marching band and baton twirlers)
Dug Jay
“Coulda, shoulda, woulda….” it is still far from certain that a “crime” will be proven to have occurred.
JWW
?
In the end what will be gained by any of this?
You sleep with family and angels in your dreams. A terrorist dreams of removing that from your life, then removing you.