It’s God, I tells ya!
While I’m not too interested in seeing him elected, I’d love to see him kick ass in the primaries. He’s the only Republican I can stomach – and that’s only because of his support of the FairTax.
It’s God, I tells ya!
While I’m not too interested in seeing him elected, I’d love to see him kick ass in the primaries. He’s the only Republican I can stomach – and that’s only because of his support of the FairTax.
Comments are closed.
This Is A Test
You don’t have to support it and you don’t have to tell me why it will ruin the economy. I just want to know this. Do any of you know what The Fair Tax is? Because it appears
Ted
He seems likable, of course I’ve also read things in his own more local media which dispel that somewhat (“thin-skinned”, “mean-streak”, etc). But certainly doesn’t inspire nausea the way most of the other GOP (and a couple Democratic) candidates do.
[rolls eyes] [shakes head]
Cindrella Ferret
I forgot this Mike Taibbi piece in Rolling Stone. Nothing about Dumond but other batshittery is addressed. Enjoy!
r€nato
Sure, nominate Huckabee. So that he has to explain to the nation in a general election campaign how Clinton Derangement Syndrome caused him to release a serial rapist from prison who went on to rape and kill two women, one of them pregnant.
That alone should disqualify Huckabee from polite society, let alone elective office. At least Dukakis was acting from good (if naive and politically suicidal) motives in furloughing prisoners like Willie Horton. Huckabee freed one specific rapist due to crazed conspiracy theories, completely ignoring the pleas of his victims.
I know you all know this, but I find his behavior in this episode appalling, coming as it does from the hysterical law and order crowd. I think it would indeed be useful for this nation to examine what CDS did to warp this nation’s discourse.
Seanly
Fair Tax? Ugh. A 30% sales tax on goods & services? Too high & too regressive. I’ll grant that we need sensible tax reform, but Fair Tax is not it.
Also, what renato sez!
r€nato
…besides, the anti-Huckabee ads just write themselves with that kind of material.
r€nato
A 30% sales tax on goods & services?
isn’t that a lot like the VAT levied in Europe?
Bad idea, not surprising since it’s a GOP idea. Sales taxes are regressive plus when you levy a single tax that is that high, it creates a powerful incentive to evade it.
Media Glutton
I don’t necessarily see how higher taxes on the poor and lower taxes on the rich is “fair” but I agree with you that Huckabee seems to be the most normal of the Repub bunch.
Dennis - SGMM
At an on-the-record-dinner with reporters in Des Moines, Iowa, on December 4th, Huckabee didn’t know about the Iran NIE. That didn’t keep him from saying this:
“…And I’ve heard, the last two weeks, supposed reports that they are accelerating it and it could be having a reactor in a much shorter period of time than originally been thought…”
Huh? Lemme see now; Christian fundie, ignorant on foreign policy, doesn’t read the papers. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!
Fargus
FairTax, Michael? Seriously? It’s truly got to be one of the worst ideas I’ve ever heard. I know its supporters claim that the “prebates” make it progressive, but on the other hand, it claims to be revenue-neutral, and there’s no doubt that the rich would be paying less than they are now. Meaning what? If the same amount of government revenue is to be taken from the tax, the middle class is going to get disproportionately squeezed.
I find it hard to take seriously anyone who defends the idiocy that is the FairTax.
LITBMueller
Who the hell named the “FairTax,” anyway? Frank Luntz???
Punchy
Credibility. Shot. You and Boortz can go on pimping this train-wreck of an idea. Rich buy their shit elsewhere, poor get all sorts of “prebates”, and the middle gets fucked. Sounds exactly right for dishonest republicans.
demimondian
Oh, so Huckabee has added a full tax on services? And adequate enforcement for people who have services performed electronically? Otherwise, the tax is wildly regressive and unfair.
Michael D.
LOL! You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Michael D.
Explain to me how you could?
Michael D.
Funny, when I read everything you people write criticizing the FairTax, you make me laugh, because it is so obvious that you don’t have a fucking clue about what it is – other than what you hear on Air America. You criticize the right for spouting talking points, yet you do all the same shit yourselves. LOL!
Sure, Boortz supports it. And I knew you threw that in there because you knew it would be red meat for the lemmings. I’d support the FairTax if Hitler himself proposed it.
Then I would shoot him.
Jen
Part of the Fair Tax plan is repealing the 16th amendment. I know we can get pretty worked up about booze, but do you really think that’s going to fly? Do you have any idea how hard it is to amend the constitution or to repeal amendments?
That’s just the tip of the Sears Tower of the problems with the fair tax. (I prefer my analogy, “it’s just the Minneapolis-St.Paul airport of Larry Craig’s sexuality”, but no one voted for it.)
Pug
Not only did Huckabee push for the release of a rapist who went on to rape and murder two women, now he is flat out lying about it.
Yesterday on CNN, under withering questioning from Wolf Blitzer [/sarcasm], he claimed all he did was deny Wayne Dumond’s commutation. The parole board, appointed by Bill Clinton, actually paroled Dumond and there was nothing poor Huckabee could do about it. That’s his story.
He left out the part about how he announced he would commute Dumond’s sentence before he even took office, and how he pressured the parole board in a secret, and illegal, closed door meeting.
He also left out the part about how his good friends, fruitcake preacher and radio host Jay Cole and resident New York Post clown Steve Dunleavy, railed about the Dumond case for years, Poor Wayne was a victim of the evil Clintons. All the wingnuts thought so. Wayne was a right-wing hero as well as a convicted rapist and future murderer.
Wayne Dumond should be wrapped around Mike Huckabee’s neck like an anchor. Huckabee comes off as a regular, likeable guy, but his actions in the Wayne Dumond case were despicable. He needs to get down on his knees before the God he so pompously worships and beg forgiveness for the deaths of those two girls.
Dennis - SGMM
Smuggling
Barter
Swap Meets
For openers.
Doug H.
Ah yes, the FairTaxScheme. Created by Scientologists, supported like a religion by Anarcho-Libertarians, and apparently found a sucker in Michael D.
You think the current income tax and War on Drugs is a hoot? Wait’ll you see 60% sales taxes and the War on Black Markets.
Doug H.
For openers? Let’s keep on going, this’ll be fun!
Black Markets
Organized Crime
Mob Wars
Punchy
So now we’re all just a bunch of lemmings? Go fuck yerself. We’re a pretty educated bunch of peeps here. I’ve looked into this. It’s loaded with crap. For instance, you really think the gov’t can send checks to EVERY FUCKING HOUSEHOLD IN AMERICA, consistently, every month, for prebates on necessary goods (milk, etc)? A red tape debacle. Untenable. Fraught with fraud and post-office shenanigans.
But we’re just lemmings, so we must be wrong.
ThymeZone
The FairTax troll is pretty lame, Michael. Nobody in his right mind would support such a goofy-assed scheme.
First, lay out the revenue projections. Those will never pass muster.
Second, examine the political viability of the scheme. Clue: I doubt you could get ten votes for it in the House of Representatives.
Third, shake your head over the time you just wasted.
Done.
Shygetz
Interesting that the Fair Tax, while touting its “fairness”, does not also loudly tout the fact that purchases made for investment reasons are completely tax free. So, if I buy a loaf of bread to feed my family, that’s taxed at 30%. But if Warren Buffet buys Viacom, why that’s tax-free! They make a big deal out of the fact that they must tax food and medicine, as those dastardly rich people spend much more money on unprepared food than the poor and we gotta stick it to them. But since we’re being all fair, why not tax ALL expenditures, including the purchase of investment capital? Seems interesting how one of the very few purchases exempt from this oh-so-fair tax is investment capital…
Similarly, ALL business purchases are tax free. So if I buy a loaf of bread to feed my family, I get to pay 30%. If Exxon buys the same loaf of bread to feed its executives lunch, why that’s tax free!
Incidentally, the Fair Tax would also kill the construction industry, as used construction is not taxed but new construction is taxed at 30%. The housing industry is already hurting due to the sub-prime bust…can you imagine what would happen if the real cost of new home purchases went up 30% relative to pre-owned homes?
uh_clem
Why is Huckabee Doing So Well?
Because he’s “none of the above”. The same reason Thompson was riding so high in the summer, aka The grass is always greener syndrome.
The GOP is looking at a bunch of losers, so they’re desperately trying to find an alternative to this crop. Anybody who’s not Rudy/McCain/Fred/Mitt looks awfully good by comparison. That is, until he becomes the front runner and they find out more about him. At that point, support will wane, as it did for Thompson.
Actually, one of the best scenarios for the Dems would be to have a protracted battle between Romney and Huckabee – neatly splitting the GOP right down the middle along the fault line between the small-government ideologues and the Christian fundamentalists. Pass the popcorn.
Zifnab
~wikiwiki
What did we miss, Mike? It’s a massive sales tax in place of income tax. So we tax you for spending money. Who spends a higher proportion of income, rich people or poor people? Ergo, who will be paying the lion’s share of the tax?
The “FairTax” recks of the same stupidity that gave us the Bush Capital Gains Tax Cuts. I can’t remember whether it was 5% or 10%, but it basically gave wealthy, heavily invested individuals shit-tons of money. He turned the stock market into a tax shelter, and the FairTax just looks like it cranks that up a notch.
That’s not even mentioning how such a tax would practically beg for cash-only under-the-table purchases and sales to evade it. You think the IRS has it rough tracking income? That’s nothing compared to what its sales tax counterpart would have to keep track of.
What a phenomenally bad idea. Why don’t Republicans just say what they mean and pass the “NoTax” act? That, at least, would be equitable across the board.
Stephen
Michael,
He’s a Creationist Moron.
Doug H.
Oh, they’ll find ways, citizen. You didn’t need those rights during the War on Drugs or the War on Terror, so why do you need them now?
Zifnab
Rights nothing. They could 1984 every household in America and people would continue to evade this tax with ridiculous ease. It’s laughably unenforceable and virtually begging to be abused the hell out of.
I can see tax scams on that “prebate” bullshit a mile away, which will inspire Republican pols to reform the system by bemoaning the irresponsibility of the poor. I can see the government redlining into bankruptcy, like Texas has done year after year, because “projected revenue” and “actual revenue” are so far off each other its a fucking joke.
Such. A. Bad. Idea. It hurts me.
grumpy realist
Michael, anyone with a knowledge of historical tax systems who has looked at the Fair Tax idea can blow five holes in the idea immediately:
1) Regressive
2) High enough to really incent avoidance
3) Doesn’t cover everything (see investment, above)
4) Incredible amount of paperwork required
5) How in the heck are you going to deal with cross-border trade? Either you are going to try making other countries act as your tax collection agents (not gonna happen), or we’re going to see a heck of a lot of boondoggling set up in order to use a loop out of the country as a way to get rid of the tax altogether. Trust me, at 23% level of tax, it WILL happen.
Plus, the lawyers are going to love wrangling in courts for years over the definitions. “Point of purchase” “new goods and services”.
Only a bunch of clueless libertarians with no experience of the real world could have come up with this baby.
The Other Steve
You know, why don’t you morons who promot the FairTax go back and read Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations.
Thank you
Vladi G
You have got to be fucking kidding me. Hey Mike, if it’s so fair, then why do they have to lie about it by using the tax inclusive rate instead of the tax exclusive rate which is the way EVERY TAXING JURISDICTION applies its sales tax? And that 30% rate is BEFORE taking into account state and local sales tax rates.
Vladi G
It’s not 23%. It’s 30%. Don’t let them tell you otherwise.
The Other Steve
Hell, I’m going to start a whole import operation, where we buy the BMWs in Canada, let them sit for a few months, and then resell them to my US counterpart as used vehicles for resale in the states.
It’s a brilliant business opportunity!
The Other Steve
Hell, people go to extremes to cheat the state sales tax on RV’s… What do you think they’ll do when the tax on a car is 40%?
The FairTax would collapse our economy.
AkaDad
The reason it’s called the Fair Tax is the same reason we have the Patriot Act, Clear Skies, and Healthy Forests. If you don’t support these, then you must be unpatriotic, want dirty skies, unhealthy forests, and of course, unfair taxes.
Propaganda 101
The Other Steve
Out of curiousity, does my dog qualify for the Prebate?
Vladi G
Actually, it’s not. Titled property is practically the only personal property on which you can’t avoid the tax. They just get you for it when you register the vehicle. Do that with LCD TVs or something though, and you’re on the right track, assuming that Canada’s tax is less onerous.
Andrew
lollerskates!
Yeah, supporting tax policy proposed by Neal Boortz is really going to score points with intelligent folks.
Zifnab
Well, Canada isn’t full of clusterfuck idiots, so I can guarantee their sales tax isn’t 30%.
It would be fun to watch the immigration nuts suddenly line up with tax enforcement groups, because all that fencing suddenly service to shore up government revenue.
Zifnab
*suddenly serves.
Damn you!
Pb
Michael D.,
We know exactly what it is, which is why we know that you’re so far out on this one that you can’t even begin to defend your own pathetic policy position, precisely as usual. I’ll tell you what, Michael, sometime in the next 24 hours, why don’t you try to begin to put up a spirited defense of the FairTax, or at least to explain how it could possibly work in the real world, like, say, the United States in the next few years. Hint: that doesn’t just involve ad-hominem attacks on the commentariat.
And if you don’t… John, could you pretty please dump this clown already? Even Michael D.’s regular ridiculously inane “hey how about that home appliance” posts are better than this lazy and dishonest hackery, and both are reasons not to read this blog.
Andrew
This here is a really interesting tax policy:
Eliminate ALL taxes. Every single one. Generate government revenue purely by seigniorage. Taxes are essentially replaced by inflation, which is the broadest base tax possible.
There are a lot of major and obvious problems, and it would never work, but it’s an interesting economic thought experiment, unlike the FairTax bullshit, which is merely a rightwing ploy to push regressive taxes onto the lower and middle class.
Cindrella Ferret
Jen,
That is incorrect. The Fair Tax Act(HR 25, S 1025) does not repeal the 16th amendment. That would require a Constitutional Amendment. It does abolish the IRS however. But that just requires some other Federal agency to collect revenues from the states.
Michael,
How is the fair tax, fair? The fact that the 16th Amendment is not specifically repealed makes me VERY distrustful of those treacherous bastards in Congress. First they implement the “fair tax”, but what is to keep them from re-instituting? Unless the 16th Amendment is specifically repealed this legislation is a non-starter in my book.
I have many other objections to this so-called “fair tax” but that is the most obvious one and the simplest to explain. I will write more on it if you like.
Ryan
Is there a way to RSS only John Cole’s posts? I’d rather not waste my time on posts like this in the future.
Andrew
The bill does not repeal anything, obviously, but the long term plan of these tax regressivists is to eliminate the income tax. Indeed, the moneyed interests of the right wing have long angled for the repeal of the 16th amendment as one of their primary goals (if not the goal), and various proposals, such as the fairtax, arise from this effort.
Jen
Well, I was just going on what was on the FairTax.org website he linked to said. It says repeal. If you “click for more details”, it says abolish the IRS. You’re right, not the same thing at all, but both batshit crazy. Since you don’t need a heck of a lot of details to figure out it’s batshit crazy, I didn’t get a heck of a lot of details. Sorry.
Jill
How can you “stomach” someone who doesn’t believe in evolution?
Pb
There had been some debate in the past as to whether the Sixteenth Amendment was even necessary in the first place:
Cassidy
I love this statement. Been been expressing this sentiment for a while. Apparently it’s catching on.
And I love the pile-on and required cursing/ name calling coming from such learn-ed individuals.
Andrew
Cassidy, you’re like a fucking retarded version of Michael D.
There, happy now?
Andrew
Anyway, Cassidy, thanks for bringing up Michael’s most egregiously stupid statement:
Jesus lord in heaven, Michael, you are a huge fucking douchbag. You’re so reflexively hostile to reality it’s no wonder you’re still in the Republican party. Look it, if you can’t even do basic percentages, and fall for the plainly stupid 23% rate trickery, you’re really not qualified opine on anything that involves math. Stick to subjects like your favorite flavor of ice cream and how cute puppies are, like omg, sooooooo cute!!!
Cindrella Ferret
Sullivan posted a Huckabee video. Evidently, Huckabee’s god has intervened in our election process. Awesome. Another messianic vision for America. Haven’t the last seven years been enough?
Cassidy
Not until I’ve tasered a few brown people and then sent them on a little vacation to Egypt. After that, I’ll go big game hunting on some endangered species while wearing fur, driving in my gaz guzzling SUV, and using an assault rifle with dum-dum round.
Yeah, that’d be a good day.
Jamey
The Fair Tax? Seriously?
Michael, Republicans are fucking stupid — and not because they support Huck.
Cindrella Ferret
OK I’m an idiot. I just posted the video that …. never mind. It really isn’t my fault. Forget everything I said in this thread. I’ll head to rehab then I will be spending more time with my family.
WARNING LABEL: Substantial intake of Brown Acid and Tequila can result in severe brain damage and other maladies so serious Jack Kevorkian is the only cure.
Ed Drone
What happens to state sales and income taxes? Isn’t this a Republic, not a Democracy? A national sales tax that overrules the states’ rights sounds pretty anti-republican to me.
But then, what do I know? All I know is we had whopping growth and prosperity in the 1950s, when the top income tax rate was 90%, and we’re hurting now when it’s 30% (and going lower if the anti-taxers get their way). Correlation? You be the judge.
Ed
ThymeZone
Correctamundo. A regressive (don’t let their literature fool you into thinking otherwise) tax that places the greatest burden .. on the govt side AND the citizen side … on the low end of the economic totem pole, favors the rich, creates a beaurocratic monstrosity, and taxes (suppresses) the single greatest source of fuel in the whole engine of commerce, which is the spending of money.
Even if you could get this lead-weighted airship off the ground, which is in the realm of fancy, you could never administer it and regulate it properly, and you’d end up with a tax law trainwreck of massive proportions.
FairTax is an exercise in thinking, nothing more. Probably invented by people who are against doing away with the present tax code. In other words, it’s probably spoof.
Darkness
Um, wouldn’t this be the same as filing a “return” to something like the “irs”?
This reminds me of the social security “reform” that completely skipped the part about having to triple the size of the soc security admin in order to handle the overhead of all those individual accounts. Naive, childlike ideas these are.
Not that tax reform ain’t a good idea, but how about we make the income tax fair as a first pass? Tax companies that are off-shore if we are going to tax companies at all. Tax capital gains like they are income, which they are. Often the only income for the very rich. Eliminate 90% of deductions so the irs does less work and you can slim them down… oops, I think we’ve found the problem. See, I can see the appeal of a sales tax and a wholesale elimination of the irs because it is the only way to kill the beast that will not allow a limb to be chopped off. But come on, there has to be a better way.
I’ve shopped in Italy. Sales tax evasion is rampant. It would be rampant here unless you install draconian receipt rules on shoppers. That’s the way they do it in places where sales taxes are undercollected: within 2 blocks of a shop, you, the shopper, can be forced to turn over your receipts and have your purchases scrutinized.
But I agree that there is no reason for anyone to get hostile, especially when the target is so easy… Aye.
Oh, Zifnab, about Canada. GST ranges from 6 to 16.6% and on top of that is often VAT ranging from 15 to 25% so they are up in the ranges being discussed, just for the record. But this is ON TOP of much higher income tax rates. They are smart and it is buried in the price, not one top when you get to the register. Probably something to learn from that about shopper denial.
Vladi G
I can’t tell from this exchange whether Michael is too stupid to understand the difference between an inclusive rate vs. an exclusive rate, or if he thinks the rest of us are too stupid to understand it.
ThymeZone
I think he is pulling our collective leg(s).
The Other Steve
So tell us, oh wise sage.
What is the FairTax?
I’ve read the website, and unlike you I have also read Adam Smith Wealth of Nations and have some understanding of tax policy.
Let’s say I make $100k, just using nice round numbers, putting me in the upper middle class range. $20k goes to paying mortgage, insurance, property taxes on the house. $10k goes to paying for car, gas, insurance, repairs. $30k right now goes to govt taxes. I put my max of $15k into the 401k. That leaves me with say $25k that I’m used to spending on food, clothing, and color televisions.
Now I’m used to spending $25k for stuff.
Ok, so to maintain my standard of living, I spend my $25k. Now because there are no corporate income taxes, the cost of goods is reduce by 10%. So i really only need to spend $22k to get the same stuff.
Now I add my 23% FairTax on top of that. So that’s another $5k… so I’ve spent $27k, and $5k has gone to the govt.
Ok, but I have $30k that ain’t going to the government. So what do I do with it? I’m going to save half, or at least use it to pay off the house faster. Then I spend the other $15k. And 23% of the $15k is $3.5k.
Ok, so far only $8.5k has gone to the government. Where else do we get the money?
Well I had a loan on the car. It was a $40k car… So that’s $9.2k in taxes. But I only buy a new car every 8 years, so we spread that out… that’s another $1.2k to the government.
Ok, now the house. Are we taxing the house? A $300k house, would net $69k in taxes. But I only buy a house once every 30 years. So that’s really only $2.3k.
Oh hell, let’s say I do spend all the other $15k instead of saving it, and there’s some other stuff that’s taxed, so I give another $5k to the government.
You’ve replaced my $30k in income taxes with a fair tax cost of about $17k.
I’ve changed my mind. I love the FairTax!
The Other Steve
Damn, I forgot i was going to get a prebate. What’s that amount to? 23% of $15k? Ka-ching, i get a $3.5k rebate from the government.
so now I’m down to like $14k in taxes, instead of the $30k I was paying before.
This is even better!
Dreggas
Ya know I can’t understand why the rich need all that money anyway, I mean sure let them keep enough to remain rich and such but they can’t take it with them and if they really thought about it their kids really don’t deserve it if they didn’t work for it.
The Other Steve
Back to my fuzzy math. So with my $100k salary, netting $30k in taxes to the government now… To get $30k from me with a 23% sales tax, I would have to spend $130k/year.
I don’t see how the math works here.
Zifnab
Fairness first, math later. The
Iraq WarFair Tax will pay for itself, just trust us.At a certain point, it’s not about money, its about power. When you’ve got $100k / year, you get to live well. When you’ve got $1mil / year, you get to live lavishly. When you make $100mil / year, you get to do whatever the hell you want.
What’s more, money becomes even more valuable when no one else has any. When everyone works for a slave’s wage, suddenly whole new options open up for you. Namely, you get to treat people like slaves.
Go up to New York or LA, and you’ll pay $50 in taxi fair to get flipped off and sworn at. Go down to Georgia or Alabama and you can pay some shlub $20 to treat you like a king. Go out to some impoverish Latin American village and you piratically own the town for a few grand a week.
Cassidy
And the base sentiment comes out: “They don’t deserve it. I don’t have it. It should be given to me”.
Vladi G
They’re turning kids into slaves
just to make cheaper sneakers.
But what’s the real cost,
cause the sneakers don’t seem that much cheaper.
Why are we still paying so much for sneakers
when you’ve got little kid slaves making them?
What are your overheads?
We’re talkin’ about the issues,
but we’re keepin’ it funky.
Zifnab
Wow. Leap of logic there.
I like how Cassidy implicitly assumes A) Dreggas isn’t rich, B) Dreggas wants rich people’s money, C) these emotions comprise the “base sentiment” and not an ancillary sentiment, D) his argument of “You can’t tax me because you want my money!” holds any weight whatsoever, and E) snide one-liners are going to somehow make him more popular around here.
Here’s a thought, Cass. There are only two sure things in life: Death and Taxes. One day, other people will inherit all your stuff and you’ll have absolutely no say in the matter. As a society, it is important to see that said “stuff” is distributed to those it should properly belong to. The government, therefore, is the ultimate trustee of all your “stuff”. It’s inescapable.
If you don’t like the government getting a cut of your goods after you die, make sure you build a nice high funeral pyre to make sure everything you own goes up with you.
Then get over yourself.
Dreggas
You should call hooked on phonics and get your money back. While your at it call someone about having a sense of humore implanted.
Cassidy
It belongs to the people I designate, after taxes of course. Any other spread-the-wealth mumbo jumbo is wrong.
I’m pretty sure my trustee is who I designate.
JR
Christ Almighty, if I knew nothing else about you I’d know that you were most likely a Republican from Atlanta who spends too much time taking Neal Boortz’s sixth-grade math seriously. For some reason, that seems to be the key demographic supporting a national sales tax.
Pb
The Other Steve,
If you’d like to run some more numbers, this FairTax Calculator might help–just be on the lookout for fuzzy math, I’m interested in their “hidden taxes” estimates that they sneakily stick in there for comparison purposes, for example.
Doubting Thomas
Hmmmm… 3 hours since Michael D’s last comment…
Multiple, well sourced comments on why it’s a bad idea were offered after his comment but still no response or explanations on why everyone here is wrong on the “Fair” tax or why he supports it. But he did get to call us libruls lemmings and then be real macho and say he’d shoot Hitler.
Yep, he’s a modern day Republican through and through. It’s no wonder John left the party.
ThymeZone
Do we the blogmeisters will have something to say about Romney’s speech this morning?
What say ye?
Kynn
Punchy said:
Oh, come on, be fair.
His credibility was shot when he popped up to say “hi, I’m a gay Republican!”
ThymeZone
Be sure to read the whole thing.
“Liberty is a gift from God.”
Is it? If it is, it’s a gift that isn’t distributed very evenly or fairly. How many of the several billions on the earth have liberty?
God should take a sabbatical and try to figure out where He fucked up.
grumpy realist
Actually, back in the late medieval period quite a few commentators came up with very ingenious arguments as to why the Pope “owned” all property in the whole Christian world and that he had the RIGHT to dispose of it as he wanted to, although he might in charity leave its disposition in the hands of those who were dealing with it at the time….
Didn’t go over very well with quite a few people…
The Other Steve
What’s this got to do with Dred Scott?
Darkness
Back to addressing the main topic. Why is Huckabee doing well.?Come one… the real reason is he promised Stephen Colbert he’d make him his VP if he got the nomination.
Oh, what a painful choice that would be. I’d loves to vote for Colbert.
The Other Steve
If it’s a gift, why did my ancestors have to fight for it so hard?
Zifnab
Ah, yes. But who makes sure it gets to the designated heir? You? Your lawyer? Sweet Baby Jesus?
Or does the US Court System ultimately arbitrate how and where your money gets distributed? For instance, if you owe $20k on a house note, but you designate that all your wealth be handed over to your son, the mortgage company can still step in and take a chunk out of your estate. How big a chunk is decided not by you or your heir or your will, but by the US legal system.
Or if you leave your entire estate to your drug-addled Playboy Playmate trophy wife, for instance, your son can still contest the fortune in court.
See how it works? The Government controls your property whether you like it or not.
canuckistani
I liked it better when liberty was an inalienable right. Then I don’t have to worry about God changing his mind, or fundie preachers explaining the gift to me.
ThymeZone
Only God knows.
Buck
That’s easy. The Chuck Norris endorsement.
ThymeZone
Didn’t Huckabee dodge the 6000-year-old-Earth question by saying he doesn’t know how the earth was formed?
He’s doing well because stupid people really appreciate other stupid people, people. What the hell did you expect?
Haltelcere
Reminds me of a story about a farmer that purchased a run-down farm and who spent a great deal of time and effort bringing it back up to tip-top shape. One day a preacher passes by and comments on how nice the farm looks by saying “Isn’t it a wonder what God and Man can do when they work together.”
The farmer thinks for a minute then says “That may be true. But you should have seen the place when only God was in charge.”
Alex
Remember that your car and your house get almost double-taxed under the FairTax. You will be taxed not only on the value of the purchase, but also on the value of the mortgage, since H.R. 25 levies a tax on the purchase of financial services.
ThymeZone
Did you get that? The “breakdown of the family” is right up there with Radical Islam, and overuse of oil.
Romney, today.
What is the difference between Romney and Huckabee again? That Huckabee remains largely an unknown, but at least isn’t a Mormon?
What’s this thread about, again?
Psycheout
Liberals hate the fair tax because it’s fair. Good on ya, Mike. Stand up for your principles.
Fargus
No, liberals hate the FairTax because it’s about as crazy as crazy ideas get. Even crazy people, provided they’re only moderately crazy, think the FairTax is fucking nuts.
Michael D.
In fact, be like most people here and don’t even bother with the literature.
After all, when your vocabulary mostly involves the words “greedy rich people” and “take more money from the rich”, etc, etc, who needs facts!? You can get all those from Randy Rhodes! LOL!
Fargus
Michael, you absolute fucking hack. I did a quick search of the comment thread, and your post above is the only place in it where “greedy rich people” and “take more money from the rich” appear. It’s easier to construct strawmen than to actually have to defend your insane tax beliefs, about which most people in here seem pretty well-informed.
Punchy
From the way it drives, it’s clearly a gift from Jeep.
Psycheout
Soak the rich!
Bombadil
That’s your idea of a smart rebuttal? “LOL!”?
Jeebus.
John Cole, I think you’ve found your own Joe Klein.
Vladi G
Or be like Michael, and don’t bother responding to any of the counter-arguments. Just chime once in a while to accuse people of calling others “greedy rich people”.
Still wondering whether Michael knows the difference between a tax inclusive rate and a tax exclusive rate, and whether he thinks most Americans believe he’s talking about the latter when he brings up his 23% bullshit.
Michael D.
LOL! Fargus: Are you jumping up and down, stomping your feet, and screaming?? Are you going to hold your breath till I change my mind? Heh. Just checking. You obviously don’t read the site often enough to see that “take from the rich” is kind of a theme in most comments that remotely deal with taxes.
Psycheout
That’s the reality based community for you. They get their marching orders from the shrill and unlistenable Ranty Roads. Pathetic, isn’t it.
I think you’ve pretty much answered everyone’s empty criticism of the FairTax. But I bet they begin crying that you avoided their sage commentary. Delusional.
Media Glutton
“In fact, be like most people here and don’t even bother with the literature.”
If by “most people here” you mean “Michael D.” Michael, come on, man, respond to at least one of the other points made, like about the ACTUAL FairTax rate of 30 percent.
Keith
There’s been plenty of “vocabulary” beyond “greedy rich people” in here, but none of it from Michael D. If it were my name on the blog’s masthead, I’d be embarassed by his inability to make an argument that wasn’t “LOL”.
Bombadil
He did respond. He clearly said, “LOL!” Refute that!
Fargus
Michael D. said:
Is another theme of these comment threads that every one of your condescending-ass responses includes an “LOL!”?
There have been points made about the regressivity of the FairTax, the fact that its Orwellian name isn’t really accurate, the fact that reckoning a sales tax in an inclusive manner is inherently deceitful, the fact that claims of revenue neutrality necessarily mean that the middle class’ll be unduly squeezed, etc.
You’ve answered exactly none of them.
I guess I should put on my LOLletproof vest now, huh?
Media Glutton
“Objection, your honor! LOL!”
“Sustained! Case dismissed!”
uh_clem
Interesting thread, in which the author of the post gets thoroughly OWNED by the commenters.
Michael D, you have not given even the barest hint of an argument in favor of the “fair tax”. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.
Just strawmen and ad hom. Pathetic.
Andrew
Shorter Michael D.: All I offer is condescension and stupidity.
Shorter Andrew: Michael, you’re a real fucking moron.
Michael D.
The reason, Fargus, is because for the last two hours, my coworkers and I (most of them lefties, by the way) have been laughing our asses off about how easy it was to get the commentariat here all in a twist by agreeing with anything – ANYTHING – that originates in conservative circles.
I was going to put up the video about Huckabee on its own. But I told a friend who is visiting, “Wait. Watch what happens when I tell them I like his position on the FairTax.”
Sure enough…
Kynn
Shorter Michael D: …I got nothin’.
Bombadil
Well, I guess the jokes on us, huh? LOL!
Now, answer the fucking question — what is your response to all the arguments here taking down the Fair Tax?
Media Glutton
Michael, it’s not that we’re necessarily angry where the policy comes from. It’s that the policy is ridiculously not-thought-out and you can’t offer a single reason to support it besides saying we’re all leftie loonies. Classy.
Fargus
Michael D. said:
Can I get a ruling from the crowd as to whether the bolded part above constitutes a de facto “LOL”?
There’s a hell of a big difference between the categories of “anything that originates in conservative circles” and “ideas that are plainly batshit insane.” It’s just that FairTax happens to fall into both.
Andrew
Boy, you sure showed us! Posting stupid shit and getting called out for being a clown is really sticking it to those of us who can figure out basic percentages.
Why don’t you go smeg off to your own shitty blog if you hate the people here?
It’s obvious you can’t handle any sort of reasonable argument, your own ideas are silly and unsupported, and you’re more immature than most 14 year olds.
Zifnab
Wow. So Mike D is offically a sanctimonious dick.
“Haha! I threw my support in for something retarded and you guys ALL CALLED ME RETARDED! OMG! You guys are so easy. Tomorrow, I’m going to tell you how I really like Michelle Malkin and think her defense of Japanese Internment Camps was a stunning masterpiece of brilliant insightfulness. Then when you call me a thug and a xenophobe, boy will I have had the last laugh. Teehee.”
I should have stopped reading after “I’m a gay Republican.” My mistake.
Keith
Yeah. It got comprehensively shot down as the insane idea it really is. Were you expecting something different?
Bombadil
Odd. Checking back here for Michael D. to post his defense of the Fair Tax, and all I hear is crickets chirping.
Kynn
Yeah, it’s real funny how when you act like an ass and refuse to back up what you say, you get treated like an ass.
Hilarious, Michael! You really put one over on us! You made us think you’re an idiot, when really, you’re just … an idiot!
*eyeroll*
John, tell me again why you chose this clown?
Pb
Who needs facts, indeed? Not you, apparently! Fuck off, Michael D., and never mind about the 24 hours. John Cole, ban this prick, or at least get his stupid ass off of the front page already!
Kynn
That’s not chirping, that’s Michael D. laughing with his buddies as he does Stupid Conservablogger Parlor Tricks for his friends.
John, this blog deserves better than to be used by Michael to amuse people by playing stupid.
Can this guy, replace him.
I’m available.
lethargytartare
so, you trolled your own post, and spent a quarter of your work day patting yourself on the back about it?
are you sure your “office” isn’t the 6th-grade computer lab?
Ted
Shorter Michael D (to his coworkers): Check it out, this blog I’m allowed to post at? The readers there totally suck!! Watch! LOL!
Gilmore
So this Michael D guy doesn’t actually support the “Fair Tax”? He just said it to laugh at us for disagreeing with his not-position? Why does the owner of this blog allow it to be used for such childish time-wasting? I am really confused.
Bombadil
If this continues, John and Tim will need to add Balloon Juice to “Blogs We Monitor and Mock As Needed” .
John Cole
LMAO.
LOL. The amount of shit you guys give him, I personally think it is awesome. BTW- I am now officially amused at work.
LET THE FLAME WAR BEGIN BITCHES!
demimondian
Oh, Jeebus, people!
OK, so Michael pulled on over on us — fair enough, in an environment where the commentators don’t always believe what they say, either. Now, Michael, would you like to try to defend the so-called Fair Tax, or do you think it’s nonsense dressed up as reasonable fiscal policy?
ThymeZone
What a complete fuckhead you really are.
Of course, I pegged your troll early on, and of course pulling the legs of the commentariat is de rigueuer around here. Cole is very good at it.
But unless he’s drunk and pissed off, he’s generally pretty good natured about it and it’s all in fun.
You on the other hand … what a wanker.
uh_clem
Sorry Michael. “I was only trolling” is a lame excuse.
John, Tim, I think it’s time to reconsider giving Micheal D front page access.
demimondian
Why is “I was only trolling” a lame excuse? Around here “I was trolling” is a common *reason* for doing things? Why should the commenters get all the fun?
Punchy
You’re nothing but an unctuous prick, if so. You think our distaste for something as obscene as the fair tax is merely due to its conservative/liberterian genesis? I refuse to actually type the words that describe the level of arrogant pomposity and dickheadedness that it takes to falsely support a position, then pretend its funny when we show you how fucking wrong you are.
Please. Leave. Go. No one will ever take another one of your posts seriously again.
Zifnab
You wanna just rename this blog “Conservative Thunderdome” and be done with it?
demimondian
Oh, fooey, Punchy.
Look, Peter Johnson is DougJ. You know that, right? DougJ is a wild-eyed lefty, and one of the original BJuice trolls. He’s written ludicrously conservative spoof, and he’s currently honing in moderate spoof — and he’s getting very good at it. I *think* Cassidy’s a spoof, but I confess that I don’t remember.
That’s the rules here — you can’t trust ANYBODY. Will I ever completely trust Michael D. to really mean what he says? No. But then, that makes it fair, now doesn’t it? He couldn’t ever completely trust me to mean what I say, after all.
ThymeZone
Oh, you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG as always my fine feathered friend.
You can trust me to be a disposable persona. I am, and I have declared as much on many occasions. I do not exist, never have, and never will.
Speak for yourself, demimondiancrat.
uh_clem
Why is “I was only trolling” a lame excuse?
Why? Because I don’t believe he was trolling. More plausible is that when he realized he couldn’t defend his position on the “Fair” tax, he trotted out “trolling” as an excuse rather than admit he was wrong. That’s Lame with a capital L that stands for Loser.
And if he was actually trolling from the start, it was a pretty stupid thing to do. For one thing, it totally hijacked the thread….
Krista
That’s pretty much what it looks like, doesn’t it? I don’t know, Michael. I know a lot of people were really hard on you when you first arrived, and I’ve done my best to give you a fair shake. But this was really just silly. You expressed your admiration for a policy, refused to give ANY information as to why you admired it, made fun of the people who disagreed with you, and are now saying that you did it solely to get everybody “in a twist”?
Seems kind of mean-spirited. John’s had this blog for a long time, and many of the commenters have been around for years. If you get invited to guest-speak at the Legion, do you start deliberately saying antagonizing things towards the veterans, just to get their ol’ tickers riled up?
I believe you have some thinking to do.
Buck
Hey Michael D. If you really want to fuck ’em up just feign support for the 2nd Amendment and then be sure and take a couple of steps away from the monitor.
Ted
Who would have guessed Mike D would turn out to be a Randroid?
Ya just never know who will!
You may be the only one, other than Mr. LOL!
He voiced support for an idiotic tax policy. People here asked him to explain how he can support it with the arguments they were able to make immediately (some here have obviously given this a good look over). Mr. LOL!’s response was just that, LOL!, and to call people idiots. Kinda shows a weak hand in the debate if you ask me.
John Cole
DougJ may be a lot of things, but he is by no stretch of the imagination a wild-eyed lefty. Only in a totally fucked up system with the center way out of balance could you even call him a lefty.
DougJ is decidedly middle-of-the-road if you ask his real opinions. Hell, on many social issues, I am more of a lefty than he is by a wide margin.
Andrew
Hi Buck! I imagine you’re too fucking stupid to realize this, but many (if not most) of us here are fairly pro-gun. We’re just anti-fucking-idiot.
jenniebee
And it was such an interesting blog once upon a time.
Cole’s threads are still good though.
I vote for replacing Michael D. with Psycheout or maybe Peter Johnson. That way when they advocate the crazy stupid, skip over comments which post the actual proposed legislation and instead make fun of comments that criticize the crazy stupid propaganda (because, you know, you haven’t really learned about something until you’ve read both sides propaganda. Also, going to the actual legislation to find out what the legislation says is unreasonable because Michael D. has neither the time nor the
legal backgroundreading comprehension levels to know who’s right here), when they do that and then tell the readers that they’ve just posted some crazy stupid so they and their friends can watch people get worked up about the crazy stupid, at least if it was Psycheout or Peter Johnson we’d know from the start that it’s a spoof and not a genuinely crazy stupid person who’s quite inexplicably been added as a contributor to the blog.Michael D.
demimondian: I work all day and, unlike most of the people here, I am actually busy at work and can’t take the time to spend all day in here writing comments. I’ve copied all of the serious questions here, and will address them all in a post before the weekend is out. I know. I know. It’s going to take a while, but I have work to do, and I have a research proposal to write.
I’ve copied 20 questions from here, some with multiple parts. I’ll do my best to answer them all. The ones I can’t answer (like, for example, how to reconcile state taxes) I will pass on to a friend of mine who knows the FairTax inside out and backwards. I’ll ask him for a response. If I see any more serious questions in the meantime, I will answer those too.
BUCK: I absolutely support the 2nd Amendment. 100%.
uh_clem
Like I said, he wasn’t trolling, he’s just got nothing. “I was only trolling” was his first excuse. Now it’s “I’m too busy” and “I’ll get back to you.”
Sheesh. Wot a loser. A blogger who offers an opinion, but can’t even write a sentence, let alone a paragraph, to support it. LAME.
ThymeZone
Oh great, this will be Ballooon-Juice’s Finest Hour:
An education on the FairTax.
What next, a seminar on the liklihood of a 6000-year-old-Earth? Give us a fucking break.
And now, a message from our sponsor, the Flat Earth Society.
Followed by Professor Irwin Corey’s Lecture Series on Quantum Physics.
Michael D.
Just because you are either unemployed or have ample time at work to post all day in the comments, does not mean I do. I actually work. I wrote the post at 6:44am and went to work. Sorry if I actualy have fun at work and would rather be doing that and not posting here. Idiot.
Michael D.
You never cease to amuse me.
1. ThymeZone: Support your position.
2. Michael: Ok, I will
3. ThymeZone: He’s going to support his position? Give me a break!
demimondian
Well, Michael, let me correct one thing for you.
I have the best job on Earth, bar none: I work as an SWE at a large software firm. Do you know what? Part of my job description is that I can spend as much time doing whatever I like during the day as long as I get my work done.
Sometimes, I don’t get to browse or comment at all for weeks at a time. For instance, I’ll be in Europe for a chunk of January, and, hey, guess what? I won’t be on-line much. But right now, it’s a slack time for my project, and I can take time to write comments.
But even that is deceptive; the nature of my particular position is that much of my work is done with those modern conveniences, pen and paper, or even with that oldest of human adaptations, my brain. I can, and do, often do very profitable work in the middle of the night, lying sleepless and staring at the ceiling.
So don’t imagine you’re the only one who loves his or her job.
tBone
When you piss Krista off badly enough to send you to the naughty step, you fucked up, cheap laugh or no.
When you post something that prompts Cassidy to come out from under the bridge to support you, you fucked up, cheap laugh or no.
When you do both of these things in a single thread, you should unplug your router before you post again.
Tim F.
One request: there must be some neutral way that we can refer to this tax proposal that (1) makes people who disagree with it not sound like they are advocating unfairness, and (2) gives some sign of what it actually proposes. It would be just as productive if people started calling it the PunchInTheBallsTax.
Politically charged language is tolerable as long as it is also informative.
ThymeZone
No, he’s going to support the FairTax.
Are you fucking serious? The FairTax?
The government that your party wants to drown in a bathtub, that George Bush’s party says “is the problem,” will be asked to distribute hundreds of billions of dollars to practially every household in America on a frequent and regular basis …. and that’s just for starters.
Why are you wasting peoples’ time with this horseshit?
Fuck off, man. You aren’t good enough to talk to me that way.
Fargus
OK, Michael, I’m glad to see that you’ll be providing a response. Honestly, I am.
I’m just wondering what happened between your first comment and now that suddenly lent merit to all the questions you felt comfortable ignoring in the first place. As of now, it seems you feel they merit response. At first glance, though, they only satisfied you that this was the case:
What changed?
Michael D.
Tim: Agreed. I think it’s a stupid name. I just don’t know what else to call it, although I am sure people will blockquote that comment and have their own ideas.
In the same vein, I never use the term Gay Marriage. I use marriage equality. “Gay Marriage” is equally politically charged, and implies that it is somehow different, which it most definitely is not.
Michael D.
Fargus: Yeah, I know. I probably shouldn’t have gotten so snarky. Oh well.
Michael D.
Fargus: BTW, I clicked your link. Ben Folds is awesome.
John Cole
‘
Personally, I would have told you all to fuck off if you treated me the way you treat Michael.
Then I would have made substantive arguments and rick’rolled you bastards with every link.
Zifnab
I’ll believe it when I see it. But if you’d posted this sort of thing about 100 entries up, you’d have an infinitely higher amount of respect from the commentary crowd.
“I’ll get back to you with an answer” holds way more water than “LOL! LIEBRULS! YUR STOOPID!” As it stands, half my brain is eager to see a compelling defense of the Fair Tax. I’m sure people could have thrown up a thousand hurdles to the Federal Income Tax (take money from our paychecks?! bureaucratic nightmare! what about all those other forms of income?! People will take payments under the table and cheat! Tax refunds to virtually every American on a yearly basis can’t be done!) that sound very similar.
That said, the other half of my brain is screaming “SPOOF! BEWARE OF LOLZ!” Fool us once, and all of that. So, FYI, your credibility is handing on the lip of the toilet.
Tim F.
Looking for alternatives? I propose “equal access to adultery.”
Michael D.
Oh fucking please. You guys made up your mind not about me when I told you I was a Republican. I could say Universal Healthcare for all and you’d give me grief for it!! :-)
Michael D.
And BTW:
I don’t feel my credibility depends on the opinions of the commenters here. I like you guys, but you overestimate how much credit you should get for judging the credibility of others.
Zifnab
Pfff, let hell its not. One collapses our society into a quantum singularity of liberal secular drug-abusing AIDS infected fetus eating, and the other is blessed by Sweet Baby Jesus.
Why do you hate the Sweet Baby Jesus?
Tim F.
Nagging Neutrality.
Ted
It’s called the National Sales Tax and the idea has been around a long time. Probably since the very first robber-baron conservative babies started screaming the moment the national income tax was established to pay for all the shit they wanted to get done without using their own money. And to get 10% of the country to stop treating the other 90% like slaves and dogs.
Zifnab
Well, no shit. People mad wacky faces and expressed incredulity at FairTax. That’s par for the course around here. What put you into PeterJ/Darrell territory was the non-rebuttal rebuttal of
followed by
neither of which did much to address our incredulity. A simple, “I’ve got my reasons and I’ll get back to you” would have kept the fire-breathing down to a low roar.
This site desperately craves intelligent, articulate, and verbose Republicans to bicker with. You’re killing us by NOT giving us a reasoned and thoughtful response.
Self-esteem is a must in the blogosphere. Otherwise you end up curled up in a ball under your desk, crying yourself to sleep, like poor Joe Klein. Poor poor Joe Klein.
John Cole
WTF- I never signed up for any fetus eating.
RE: The Fair Tax. I know nothing about it, but I don’t trust anythign related to tax cuts and won’t from any Republicans until there are about 5 more years of purges. And really, are tax cuts are highest priority right now? Really?
Zifnab
Mi gramm-are is FAIL!
*hangs head in shame*
Michael D.
Another question I will add to the list. For what it’s worth, I’m all for tax cuts, but with a trillion dollar war going on???????????????????????? Oh. Fuck. No.
Fargus
OK, I just feel that we should all dial it down a notch and realize that there’s one immutable truth that’s been spoken in here by Michael D:
I, like others, really do want to hear a cogent, well-delivered defense of the FairTax. One that doesn’t just feel like hand-waving. Above all, one that acknowledges the arguments against it, dismisses them with reasonable arguments if possible, and accepts them as flaws in the plan if not.
BTW, all y’all should check out the Wikipedia article on the FairTax if you want an example of hackitude masquerading as neutrality.
demimondian
Alternatively, Michael, you can call it a Value Added Tax, and look at the stunning success it has occasioned in Europe.
You won’t like the results, I fear.
Michael D.
I think the article is pretty good but, admittedly, was probably edited by supporters.
Added: O/T: I love Wikipedia, but I will never rely on it to make an argument that is important to me. I will link to it for information, but not if anything depends on it. It’s a wonderful tool, but a lot of tools edit it.
Michael D.
Do European countries impose an Income Tax in addition?
AkaDad
Since this IS Balloon Juice, I think a more appropriate name would be, the Swift Kick in the Junk Tax.
demimondian
Yes, more European countries also charge an income tax. That’s rather irrelevant, though — it would be like California collecting an income tax while the US collected a sales tax.
Punchy
Because attempting to argue the finer points of a crap-ass theory is too hard.
A fraud is a fraud. Period. Full stop.
Kynn
What? I thought you and your co-workers sat around for two hours laughing at us, instead of doing work.
NOW you’re suddenly too busy to work? But before, you had plenty of time to laugh at commentators with your co-workers, AND post trolling replies?
ThymeZone
Yes, but you’re not a dishonest weasely little prick like he is, so the comparison is not apt.
tBone
I seem to remember you doing exactly that, repeatedly, back in the 2005-2006 era. Good times . . .
If the Fair Tax was the topic of discussion, I think you’d quickly dump the “substantive arguments” idea as untenable and go back to telling us to fuck off.
Pooh
John, if being a foul mouthed, foul-tempered wanker is what you are looking for in a front pager, how could you have passed over ThymeZone, who is at least mildly interesting, for this drivel. Instead, you basically have Ann Althouse guest-blogging.
ThymeZone
As if we didn’t already know that living near the North Pole put sfreezer burn on your cereberal cortex, Poop.
I’ve never used any language that John Cole hasn’t used first. Ie he objects to my style, he’ll just have to set a better example, won’t he?
Krista
Been awhile since you’ve done that, actually. C’mon, John — for old times’ sake? All this rabble-rousing is making me nostalgic.
grumpy realist
(To Michael: I think I’m going to file this thread in the same category as the Hillary-Clinton Obama-in-kindergarden fiasco. In other words, make a prat of yourself then say: “oh, I was only joking!” )
The difference between TheFairTax and VAT as far as I can tell is that VAT gets added at every stage, while TFT gets added at one particular stage. The arbitrariness of which of course adds to the problem.
Michael, I’ve taken quite a few courses in international tax law, have read a huge amount of literature that people have churned out on different tax systems and tax efficiency, and let me tell you–TFT goes against every axiom of efficient tax design and what we know of human behavior. It looks to be something designed by a bunch of Ayn Rand Asperger’s Syndrome types who can’t figure out why it possibly couldn’t work.
(Nothing against AS people–hey, I went to MIT myself–but they are extremely bad at designing systems that have to be carried out by ordinary people.)
Krista
Oh pshaw! You just flat-out enjoy being irascible. If John made cuss words verboten on here, you’d abide, but I know darn well you’d be miserable about it.
ThymeZone
Well, just for the record, I’m a persona i can’t enjoy anything, I don’t exist.
Also, I can be irascible without stooping to using John Cole’s profanity. As for banned words?
I think that’s in the realm of Porcine Aerodynamics, if you get my drift.
Michael D.
Then go fuck youself! :-) (or. LOL, for people who love me.)
Ted
Anarcho-capitalists; as economically deluded as Communists. They’re brethren, in a very odd sort of way.
Krista
There’s hope for you yet…
ThymeZone
Hey, done that a few times, amigo. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
Krista
Evidently, that Arizona heat makes one rather limber.
ThymeZone
We do what we have to do.
ImJohnGalt
I call bullshit. When was the last time you were visiting a friend and were up at 6:44 AM to see him off to work?
Look at the bright side. At least we are no longer calling Michael D. a self-loathing homosexual, which apparently we were doing, under our breath, with offensive regularity when he first started posting here.
I think I may have to rewrite the pie script to eliminate front page posts by Michael, rather than just comments. Should be fairly easy. If I wanna hear nothing but whingeing about how confusing modern home electronics are, I’ll call my folks. Michael’s drive-by posts, very few of which are anything more than Instapundit-y crap with no analysis, are so far removed from Tim’s and John’s posts, it’s like having TBogg post at FDL.
Oh, wait.
Psycheout
I certainly would.
Buck
Well. You know many if not most here are fairly pro gun.
I don’t know if Andrew is one of the many or one of the not most.
But he certainly formed a rabid opinion of me in a hurry.
Psycheout
Let be be more clear about this: allowing the Democrats to pass and take credit for universal healthcare would make the American people feel indebted to the Democrat party for life, assuming that it’s a success.
For that reason alone, it should be fought tooth and nail by principled Republicans. It would be like FDR’s Raw Deal all over again.
demimondian
Psicko — go spork yourself. You’re an obnoxious and irritating bigot.
Michael D.
You know the gheys. We always have company at 6:44am
Michael D.
ImJohnGalt:
I doubt you have the skill. If you do, I will not only apologize to you, I will give you $20. I’m pretty sure you are a bullshitter though.
uh_clem
Just because you are either unemployed or have ample time at work to post all day in the comments, does not mean I do. I actually work.
Looking over the thread, I count 5 posts from me and nineteen from you. Plus the initial post itself. Obviously, you have plenty of time to write comments, just no time to engage in rational discussion of the topic at hand.
That’s lame. Either defend the “fair tax” or admit you don’t really know much about it. Ad hom attacks calling me unemployed don’t advance your argument.
demimondian
Actually, Michael, ilikepie.js is all of about fifteen lines long, and uses a trivial pattern match. Even I could rewrite it — and Javascript is not a language with which I claim any facility whatsoever.
Chris Johnson
Say what?
I’ll tell you right now that I could really run with that latter clause there, but this is still SPARTAAA i mean, madness :)
I also have to say- John, this fellow trolling doesn’t make me post or read more. You can’t really get drawn into making a political or policy flamewar when the person just responds “ur stupid LOL”. Do you know what I mean? It might seem like a recipe for lots of flamey traffic and amusement, but it’s actually quite boring. Please reconsider keeping this guy around for the lulz :)
Andrew
And then I made the mistake of clicking through to your blog which cemented things.
Cain
Must.. Not.. Comment….
cain
Cain
I’ve been observing for awhile and I will say you guys do jump before you leap. I’m not asking anyone to change, that’s all part of the fun! This site is like a smoke filled bar with copious amounts of alcohol and cigs and bar fights. But you should know when you’re getting manipulated. (especially by Cassidy, that boy knows how to push your collective buttons.. but then I enjoy watching him take it)
cain
Randolph Fritz
The Tax, in its majestic fairness, taxes the fuel for the millionaire’s yacht and the car you drive to work at the same rate.
oh, that wasn’t what you had in mind?
(apologies to Victor Hugo)
Pb
John Cole,
Yeah, that’s the part Michael D. missed, and therefore, why his crap shouldn’t be on the front page. Thanks in advance.
And as for Michael D.:
As a front-page poster to a blog, that actually is the metric that matters (duh!), but after this bullshit, I don’t see how you’d have any credibility with anyone who read it, period. I mean, unless they’re on the lookout for a credible asshole. Congratulations, you’ve got that covered!
Justin
Fair Tax is a joke, it’s just a repackaged flat tax. Why do we need to cut taxes on the rich even more?
ImJohnGalt
Oh, for Christ’s sake. I wasn’t really going to do it, but since you asked:
Balloon-Juice Author Kill File
Please go to Kung Fu Monkey and make a donation in the amount of $20.00 to Fisher House – Rogers will match it. You can even do it in your own name and claim the tax deduction – only fitting in a discussion about the fucking insane FairTax.
I’ll look forward to your apology, too. For a good long while, I’d bet.
Tim, John, please accept my apologies. I don’t think anyone will actually use it, but hey – indirectly, I’m supporting the troops by writing it!
Pooh
It was a compliment, dude, relax.
Buck
Well thanks for dropping by Andy. You’re welcome anytime.
Punchy
Seriously, WTF?
ImJohnGalt
Punchy:
I sleep about 4 hours a night. Plus, I have my own small 13-person business which means that, like for many other small business-people, there is more work to do than there are hours in a day. I wanted to do the script right away, lest Michael thought that perhaps I had it commissioned, and weaseled out of donating to the troops.
D-Chance.
Well, 24 installs at the last count… ;)