Common ground between me and Little Green Footballs. Ted Rall is still an asshole.
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[…] Update: Even former conservative John Cole can’t stomach this. Perhaps there is still some good in him, although he is more machine than man now. Come back into the light, John. Come back into the light. (Caution: foul language warning.) – Psycheout […]
James F. Elliott
I am fairly certain that cartoon doesn’t mean what you and LGF think it means.
Jimmmmm
Rall is wrong, because Charles Johnson is neither in Iraq nor dead.
Andrew
I’m going to have to agree with JF Elliot on this one.
Lee
Can I get a link to the comic that is not on the LGF website?
I refuse to give that site any traffic.
The Other Steve
mega dittos
cleek
linky
honestly, i don’t know WTF Rall’s trying to say there. but, his past history makes me think it’s probably something stupid.
Zifnab
Ted’s stuff is usually pretty good.
That said, the punchline doesn’t make much sense. In fact, the entire premise doesn’t make any sense. If we pull out of Iraq, then stupid people won’t enlist in the army? I think Ted just told a joke that only he got.
That said, if you’ve ever read Ted Randall before, he doesn’t really pull his punches. I could definitely see LGF throwing a hissy-pissing fit over this cartoon too.
capelza
I agree that it doesn’t mean what LGF thinks it means, but beyond that I’m not sure what it does mean..except that it seems to be riffing o “Idiocracy”.
Rall..just not funny..at best.
Paul L.
Translation: Your statement does not match my narrative.
What do you think the cartoon means?
libarbarian
Then what did he mean?
Do you actually have another interpretation or do you just “trust” that Rall wouldn’t mean what it looks like he meant?
I like some of Ralls cartoons but I cant currently think of a benign interpretation of “only idiots signed up, only idiots died” aespecially given the context provided by the insurgent guote “low-quality American troops are taking the fun out of insurgency. Half of these guys die in car accidents.”
salvage
Yup, cannot stand the man.
Andrew
Well, I’m not sure.
All I know is that we should really be more outraged about this cartoon than, say, the fact we’re spending $2 billion a month and lots of people are still dying.
capelza
Look I don’t like Rall..
But what makes it murky is the ending panel…”Which led them-ironically-to a Stupid Decision” or however it was written…
It just seems like he’s trying to say something else..what I am not sure.
Quick..get CY to explain it to us.
Ted Rall, another guy I never heard of until the wingnuts told me about him.
Libby Spencer
Rall has done some fabulous and incisive panels and strips in his career but this is not one of them. I have to side with the fringers on this one myself. Although I doubt he intended it to be, it’s hard to read this as anything but insulting to the troops.
Elvis Elvisberg
I think that the cartoon is supposed to be a wildly absurdist view of why the occupation of Iraq might be a good thing, and of how different America will have to be to decide to withdraw (in another 500 years! Ha ha!). Also, he’s riffing on Idiocracy, as others have pointed out.
I don’t know anything about Ted Rall, but I really don’t think– given that the cartoon concludes with a utopian America 500 years hence that is ruined by deciding to withdraw from Iraq– that he is making a serious argument that only stupid people serve in Iraq.
I could be wrong, though. It’s a pretty damn unfunny and inscrutable cartoon.
Tim F.
Guys, think a bit before defending Ted Rall. The guy has painted American troops uniformly as fanged sadists, molesters and idiots since the war started, and that’s exactly what he does here by joking that only morons enlist and get killed in Iraq. If a mirror image of DougJ exists in America Rall is it.
Pb
I think the premise here is, how stupid would you have to be to enlist now, given the situation in Iraq? (Notice that this cartoon starts in 2007, and goes into the future…) However, I could solve the whole thing right now. All we need to do is enlist everyone who does think the war is going great (and that this is the greatest existential threat we’ve ever faced, etc., etc.) and send them on over. I’m sure we could easily find five to ten million die-hard war supporters — and then we’d have more than enough troops, and we could finish this thing! In fact, if we had done this from the get-go, we would have saved money! And really, with a soldier:citizen ratio of 1:3, what could possibly go wrong?
capelza
Tim F..I would never defend Rall…I’m just saying that this cartoon is odd…
rawshark
He doesn’t care much for sports fans either it seems. The whole thing reminds me of this Bart quote.
scarshapedstar
In defense of Ted, I think he’s right on the money: at this point it’s pretty sad to pretend that anyone’s joining the army for “the right reasons.” I could see “love of country” after 9/11. But this war has become much so farcical and suicidal that the most patriotic thing you can do is work to end the sonuvabitch.
However, people aren’t joining up because they’re stupid, they’re joining up because they’re poor, uneducated, and have a criminal record. Drive through the ghetto sometime and you’ll be amazed how many Army and Marines billboards flank the overpasses. Do the math.
Zifnab
Consider the context. It’s 2007 and people are still signing up for a war that so full of blatantly false information that only an idiot would believe it. Randal argues that you would be foolish to sign up for the military given the junky gear, repeated disrespect of the troops a la the VA Hospital scandal and 729 day National Guard deployments, the lies about conditions on the ground, the mismanagement from Abu Garaib to saber-rattling with Iran, and the politicized nature of the highest command positions.
Admittedly, Ted overlooks all those people who are so desperate to get out of poverty – say, for instance, in Hurricane-blasted New Orleans – that the Army STILL looks like a better deal than what they have now. But then, it still raises the interesting question, if joining the army in 2007 is such a smart idea, Paul and libarbarian, what are you doing here? Shouldn’t you be in Iraq, eating candy and dancing among the flowers, and basking in the glow of a freed people who have greeted us as liberators?
In the age of Beauchamp, I don’t see how Randal’s disrespect for those so hard up that they are forced into a military life is more than observational. And I have a hard time disagreeing with him. If you voluntarily enlist in the Army, in the year 2007, given all the scandal and malfeasance the Army has experienced, you have made a dumb move.
Zifnab
Rall, not Randal. *sigh*
Wilfred
If some 18yo kid came to me and asked me what I thought of enlisting to go off and fight in this stupid, criminal war I’d tell him not to do it. And then I’d speak to his level of understanding. If he’d read a bit and had a sense of history, I’d talk to him about the Arabs and their story. If he was pumped up on being young and wanting to fight, I’d tell him to read Born of the 4th of July. If he was a romantic, I’d tell him to join the Peace Corps.
I wouldn’t say that I thought there was anything good or noble in this war and I’d make it very clear that if he went, he’s not going because of me – so don’t expect anything from me. Not now, and not when he gets back.
Rall may be a prick – but nobody went off and got killed or emasculated in Iraq because of him. Can Charles Johnson say the same thing?
In 2007, unless they’re poor and jobless (the exact reasons I joined the Army) I look at new enlistees the same way I look at people who ride motorcycles without a helmet or engage in unprotected sex in a Bangkok whorehouse.
TR
Yeah, as a fairly left-leaning guy, I wish Rall would shut the fuck up. You’re not helping, asshole.
libarbarian
Who here is “outraged” by this cartoon?
Is anyone demanding that any Democrat publicly condemn it or otherwise behaving in any way close to the memebrs of the rightwing outrage machine?
Is anyone incapable of both opposing this war AND thinking that its both wrong and practically counterproductive to label soldiers as “stupid”.
chopper
i don’t get it.
i don’t see what I/O has to do with serving in iraq. this rall is a wacky one.
chopper
i’m not, because it’s a fucking cartoon.
Bubblegum Tate
Me too. Imagine my surprise when the wingnuts told me that Ted Rall represents me. I was all, “Wait, does Ward Churchill know about this? Last time, you guys told me that he represents me. I didn’t even know there was an election either time.”
gypsy howell
Is anyone demanding that any Democrat publicly condemn it
They’re probably crafting the senate resolution as we speak.
Face
So what the hell does it mean? As hard as I try, I cannot see any message beyond “our Army is full of idiots”.
Psycheout
Ted Rall is certainly no Chris Muir. Day By Day is brilliant.
Gus
He’s worse than an asshole. He’s a cartoonist who is not funny.
August J. Pollak
Although I doubt he intended it to be, it’s hard to read this as anything but insulting to the troops.
Ted’s a good friend of mine, and knowing him personally I think you’re sort of underestimating the impact of that statement. I figured by now it was understood that, like he feels about pretty much everyone else in the country, Ted doesn’t really care if he’s insulting “the troops” or not. You say it like he committed a crime or something.
I’m surprised a cartoon saying enlisting to fight in Iraq is stupid is less outrageous and worthy of scorn than the comments on LGF saying Ted deserves to be beaten up or tortured by the army (and a great way to defend the army that is, by the way!)
Davebo
Minor correction but I agree with the sentiment.
August J. Pollak
Ted Rall is certainly no Chris Muir. Day By Day is brilliant.
Now, that’s an insult.
Davebo
Well, there one vote for Anime Porn I guess.
Stooleo
Chris Muir is as pointless as Ted Rall’s artistic talent.
The Other Steve
Yes, we should all mindlessly leap to the defense of LGF.
I don’t find the guy funny, but given the last two frames, it’s not clear to me that you can conclude the position LGF concluded.
Dug Jay
Sounds like a great idea for a Ted Rall follow up cartoon. Perhaps his good friend, August Pollak, could forward it to Rall.
rilkefan
August J. Pollak:
Your having to resort to this straw comparison shows how weak Rall is here. For example, going from the statement “It’s dangerous to be a firefighter or a fisherman” to “firefighters and fishermen are stupid, but at least they’re culling themselves from the herd” would be stupid.
August J. Pollak
Or you could just go ask him yourself on his blog, where he’s already responding to other comments on the cartoon. I’m his friend, not his mailman, dude.
August J. Pollak
our having to resort to this straw comparison
Free speech versus calling for criminal activity against someone is “straw comparison?”
D-Chance.
They aren’t?
Oh, they are…
So being poor, uneducated and having a criminal record mean’s you’re “from da hood”? Sheesh!
Hard to do math if you’re poor and uneducated with a criminal record, I’d reckon.
David
I chuckled at the offhand note that 500 years later, we’re still in Iraq.
Other than that, I agree with John.
Andrew
Okay, Ted Rall is pretty much a huge dick.
jenniebee
Oh Noes! Hetereogenous thought!
Personally, I, for one, would like to send a big mushy thank-you to Ted Rall for doing his part to move the center just a little back away from the right fringe. I’m sick and tired of the extent of radical progressivism in this country being a plan for public-private competition in health care and a reluctance to commit to getting the troops out of Iraq this decade. For me to be part of the serious center, I need some serious assholes to the left of me, not just to the right.
Thank Jeebus for Ted Rall!
HyperIon
i didn’t get the Rall cartoon.
and i don’t get this comment.
mirror image as in backwards?
mirror image as in spitting image?
please explain.
Ted
I like Amanda Marcotte’s rewrites of Muir’s stuff better.
(Tee hee!)
rilkefan
Allow me to pedantically illustrate the concept of “straw”: if one replies to someone making claim X by saying, “You’re making claim Y”, where X is trivially not related to Y, that’s straw. I’m happy to condemn the nutcases at LGF, and everybody else here representing their actual views would be just as happy. The existence of nutcases at LGF doesn’t meant Rall’s stance isn’t stupid. Claiming it does is just an indication that there’s no good defense of his stance.
dennis brown
The cartoon is very obvious – I think most people are trying to read into it something else that does not ‘insult’ the troops – he IS saying to join the army now means you are S-T-U-P-I-D. Yes, Virginia, he is insulting people who are now joining the army for the money (note the opening ad for bonus money). I have never seen the man ever not be blunt to well past the point of crude if it makes his point clear – yet, a bullet through a kids guts is a hell of a lot more crude then anything a comic strip can do – get real people.
By the way, what is I/O? Input/Output? Or is that a new way to write IQ?
Hope I’m not being too stupid …
Focality
I get what he’s saying, but his work is ineffective because he doesn’t have good timing.
His strips are broken narratives that try to say a lot but instead stumble along, trying to grasp continuity.
He should either keep on trying until he gets it right or stop and find something else to do.
canuckistani
Is Insulting the Troops such a terrible crime? I can only judge by the friends I know or relatives I have who’ve enlisted, and I can tell you that on the whole they aren’t a bunch of rocket scientists. If Ted Rall wants to point out that anyone joining now is an idiot, well, I think I have to save my outrage for something that matters, thank you very much.
John Cole
August- I respect that you are defending your friend, but it is hard for me to see this as anything other than Ted just being a dick. Generally, I don’t have a problem with people being dicks, but I guess even I have thin skin when it comes to calling our soldiers idiots.
And that is really all he is doing. Being a dick. Hell, at least there was some artistic value to the guy who was crafting out of cow dung. This cartoon- not so much.
Zifnab
But if we don’t condemn Ted now, people will be lining up to spit on veterans in airports on their return home. Just like after Vietnam, when the Democrats surrendered to the Communists and we had to wait five whole years to be saved by Ronald Reagan.
*gag* In a country where “supporting the troops” means shitting a brick at a 3.5% pay raise, trashing the VA, and deporting soldiers’ wives in the name of “Securing the Boarder”, perhaps Rall’s comic is just staying current with the times.
Cinderella Ferret
I have a response to this statement but I will refrain from telling you that I think this is an utterly ridiculous statement. To say what was on my mind would require me to tell you that it may seem stupid to you, but that does not make young men and women choosing to wear the country’s uniform stupid. They made a choice. You do not agree with that choice? When should they enlist? When the coast is clear? Sorry I don’t buy that nonsense. The war in Iraq has been mismanaged on a breathtaking scale–not to mention the fact that we went in under false pretenses, at best, but I don’t want that to deter those who believe duty to country is honorable only do so when the “coast is clear.” An Armed Forces filled with fair weather soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen would mark our final days as a nation.
The Rall cartoon is entirely obtuse and without merit. A bit too clever by half, as it were. Serving up absurdist humour and/or satire is a fine art done best with surgical precision. He should have left the fog machine and meat clever at home.
Punchy
A non-superimposible mirror image? Ted and DougJ are enantiomers. One rotates to the left, and the other irritates the right. Identical properties, with a very grounded stereocenter position.
r€nato
agree with John Cole re: Rall. He lost me with his ridiculous and incredibly fucking ignorant ‘toon mocking Pat Tillman. I live in Phoenix so I know about Pat Tillman. He was anything but the jingoistic, kill-the-ragheads boob which Rall drew him as.
dude… don’t even go there. Anyone who is willing to put their life on the line to defend my country – even if the current mission is fucked up – is OK in my book.
You should check out the educational requirements for officers in the Army before insulting their intelligence.
Tayi
I enlisted after 9/11, young and idealistic and stupid. For a thousand reasons, it was the worst decision I’ve ever made, and makes me doubt my ability to make good decisions in the future.
So while I don’t really like this cartoon, and I didn’t laugh or anything… I kind of agree with the guy. I mean, yeah, Rall’s an asshole, but it’s hard to look at the kid who lives next door to my parents who just joined the Marines and is going to Iraq and not think that he’s a goddamn idiot.
rilkefan
A soldier criticizes the Ralls of the right.
Sirkowski
Let’s not forget the Army’s recruitment standards have indeed been lowered. Soon even Republicans might be able to join.
caustics
Charles Johnson is still an asshole. Ted Rall may be one as well…never heard of him until this post. Political cartoonage tends to suck anyway, although I do enjoy catching up with Tom Tomorrow now and again.
John Cole
Weird you just posted that. I just commented there like 20 mins ago.
tBone
That may say more about your friends and relatives than it does the military, though . . .
As for Rall: he’s a dick. He attacked the 9-11 widows well before Ann Coulter, for instance. Fuck him.
BARRASSO
Hey now lets not get out of hand Chris Ofili may paint with cow dung but he is a thousand times better than Thomas Kinkade! The Rall thing might be good in shifting the overton a little so that one can criticize the actions of individual troops or war policy without the wingnuts claiming you hate all our precious angelic soldiers.
canuckistani
Sorry renato, of the six friends and relatives I know who joined the Armed Forces, I respected one for his brains and moral character. He became an officer. The others lacked one, the other or both. Two of them became NCOs.
I think Thoreau said it better than I can:
BARRASSO
Of course I’ll take “get your war on ” over Rall any day. Rall has all the subtlety of a Jerry Bruckheimer movie starring Andy Dick.
chopper
now that’s an insult.
The Truffle
A lousy artist, too.
Soliton
I’ve been reading Rall occasionally for a long time now. His cartoons are almost invariably right on the money as far as I’m concerned.
But then I have an exceedingly strange sense of humor and Rall is definitely an acquired taste.
Rall is simultaneously parodying social darwinism, the conflation of sports and war in the American mind and the jingoistic “rah rah” kind of nationalism so prevalent here. The final scene is making it clear that pulling out of Iraq is *not* a stupid decision, but one that will not be made until far more American blood and treasure are wasted in that sandy version of hell on earth.
It’s getting really hard to do irony, sarcasm or parody anymore, you have to go so far over the top to exceed reality that you meet yourself coming back up the other side.
And, speaking as a former “troop”, yes I think anyone who enlists right now is an idiot. I speak from experience, recruiters lie like a Persian rug merchant and will tell you *anything* to get you to sign your life away.
My son in law is a former troop also, he thought I was an unpatriotic idiot when I predicted that Iraq was going to turn out to be a disaster for America. Son in law listens to my opinions with a good deal more respect now.
ThymeZone
Apparently, Ted Rall is just like the witty, talented, satirical and brilliant Tom Tomorrow, but without the wit, the talent, the satire, or the brilliance.
libarbarian
Go hang out at RedState with the rest of your “with us or against us” posse. Your areas of disagreement are paltry compared to what you share in common.
Bubblegum Tate
Ditto. GYWO is awesome.
Zifnab
Except anyone currently signing up for the Army isn’t putting his life on the line to defend our country, specifically because the mission is so fucked up.
They’ll be put in uniform, sent out in some armored death machine, and told to shoot any brown people on sight who look like they might shoot back. This doesn’t make our country safer, and anyone who joins the Army at this stage of the game, thinking that blowing up Iraqis benefits America, is an idiot.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
No, Zif, Rall’s stuff is usually the psychotic prattling of a mental defective completely out of touch with reality and even the most recent parts of history. “Oh, it looks good on you, though!” (Al Czervic)
What situation, two months of plummeting casualty figures?
Bzzzzzzzzt.
Try again to make Rall look like something other than a poop-slinging retarded monkey.
srv
Ted comments on the cartoon, inspired by Idiocracy:
ThymeZone
It’s fair to say that anyone who generally dismisses military service as “idiotic” is damned fool. I don’t care which side of the war issue or political spectrum he’s on.
Zifnab
Wow. If a comment like that doesn’t raise Ted’s stock around here, I don’t know what will. Perhaps, for your next trick, you can get Darrell back in here to denounce him.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
Dear Ted,
The proper bail-out to this is “botched joke.”
Regards,
John
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
LOL — you do like Ted Rall! Learn how to draw very poorly and you could have a career as an elitist scribbler.
Julie
Except when they, you know, are rocket scientists.
Tsulagi
Hadn’t opened this post earlier because I didn’t know who Ted Rall is. Obviously that admission confirms I’m stupid like those depicted in his strip. That I see no humor in his toon and now think he’s an asswipe I’m sure would just confirm that even more for him. He must be really smart just knowing he’s really smart like that.
Oh, and what Cinderella said.
slippytoad
Well, it must all be fucking puppies and icecream over there, then? That’s why the Iraqis are telling us that Blackwater is not immune from prosecution. Why don’t the four of you just hop, skip and jump on over and help distribute the last of the party hats?
Or could the dropping casualties reflect more that morale is so horrible amongst the soldiery that they are now reviving the Vietnam-era tactic of search and avoid, and parking their Humvees in a field somewhere to while away their patrols?
You tell me.
Soliton
Military service, per se, is not foolish. However, service now in the light of current events and the lack of morality and sanity of the current occupant is spectacularly foolish.
To defend one’s country is a noble thing, to invade and subjugate innocent people is stupendously ignoble.
Anyone who thinks the troops today are defending America is an idiot.
AnonE.Mouse
Rall makes a legitimate point in a bad,and not particularly funny, way.I don’t think he realizes the desperate straits or simple lack of opportunity that compel some to join.It’s certainly not about patriotism or defense of country.Otherwise we’d have to conclude that the children of the rich and the upper middle class are not taught to love and fight for their country like the children of the poor and working class.
One reason casualties have fallen in recent months is that it’s now essentially an air war against a resistance without defenses against planes,a tactic sure to win more hearts and minds as bombs fall on densely populated urban areas.Despite that,we’ve still sustained more casulaties this year than in previous years.
HyperIon
John Cole wrote:
this from a man who defends his friend Jeff Goldstein at Protein Wisdom who is seemingly always “just being a dick”.
Soliton
I suspect that your conclusion is correct. These days true patriotism seems to be confined to the proletariat while the bourgeoisie are occupied with “getting ahead”..
Lit3Bolt
Honestly, there’s not much a defense for Ted Rall. I liked some of his stuff ok, but basically he’s Bizzaro Coulter. He also fits the smug elite effette liberal stereotype fairly well, as you can see from his body of work as he simply dismisses all soldiers as braindead sociopaths who deserve to die. But Rall shows his true Coulterish soul best in this kind of cartoon, because he simply cannot make any kind of point without being as offensive as possible. (And may, like Coulter, think of himself as being secretly ironic. Sadly, no one else is on the joke.)
Vlad
Ted Rall has made some good cartoons from time to time, but that one’s a real stinker. It’s a poor execution of a flawed premise, and offensive as well.
Regardless of whether you agree with the war or not, the country needs armed forces for national defense. Servicemen and -women are badly compensated for doing work that’s dangerous and unpleasant, but also necessary. It’s a calling, like being a priest, or joining Doctors Without Borders.
Ted Rall likes to think of himself as a liberal, but if altruism isn’t a liberal value, I don’t know what is. He’d do well to remember that.
Soliton
I’m in on the joke..
Most of the time Rall isn’t trying to be funny, except maybe in the “black humor” vein.
There are a lot of political cartoons which are not funny in the slightest, Rall is far from alone in that aspect.
The Other Steve
Ok, let’s assume the premise that Rall is calling soldiers idiots for joining up now to fight in Iraq.
Can someone answer this…
Is he wrong?
It seems to me that we’re once again stuck in this world where we avoid arguing about the message, and instead arguing about whether or not it is appropriate to state the message.
Not saying I agree with that point, but you know, it’d sure be nice if we could have a substansive policy debate every once in awhile.
Soliton
I think I already answered that upthread.
The answer, like the answer to most prayers, is no.
Anne Laurie
For me to be part of the serious center, I need some serious assholes to the left of me, not just to the right. Thank Jeebus for Ted Rall!
Jenniebee is correct. Rall, as a cartoonist, works the Serious Asshole vein from what passes in America for a political left. Reaching for your scented hankies because he drew a cartoon suggesting that, given the information available even on the tv news, anyone still joining the Army is not the sharpest crayon in the box is like being shocked, shocked that Denis Leary portrays America’s Bravest as a bunch of half-bright, testosterone-driven, blue-collar adrenaline junkies in Rescue Me. Or trying to get Mark Twain taken out of the school curriculum because he uses Teh N-Word. “Going Too Far” is what Ted Rall is about. He’s not to everyone’s taste, but then neither is absinthe.
Incidentally, before you decide Rall’s all about hatin’ on Our Troops in Uniform, check out the October 11 cartoon, which spins from the State Department’s mealy-mouthed excuse that paying reparations to Iraqis whose family members were shot by Blackwater would only encourage “those people” to try and get killed just to extort money from generous Uncle Sugar.
Pb
Cinderella Ferret,
I’m merely explaining what I see as his point, you of course are free to disagree with his point; I couldn’t care less.
They can make their own choices, thanks. In the meantime, you can cease your inane speculating as to my opinions, as you are apparently very bad at it.
No–many people enlisted after 9/11 when the coast wasn’t clear. See, back then, we actually had a cause that the American people overwhelmingly supported. But the President sent our military into Iraq anyhow.
See above; that’s a false dichotomy. Also note, we could have been training our forces (or even deploying them!) without chewing up the extra hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of lives in the desert. No, the appropriate question to ask here is still the one Cindy Sheehan originally asked: “What noble cause?” In the absence of a noble cause, a ridiculously bad cause is not a better substitute than peace; FYI.
Yeah, it was pretty muddled; if it’s not going to come with a Ted Rall secret decoder ring, then it should probably be scrapped and redone.
ninerdave
So with John, Tim and some regulars condeming the cartoon, does that mean BJ is now a conservative blog again? I mean, what liberul would agree with LGF?
(FWIW, the cartoon is a) idiotic and b) without humor or artistic merit)
ninerdave
With all due respect ToS…who are you or that idiot Rall to judge. For you, for I, the answer to the “should I enlist” question is no, for others for a myrad of reasons the answer is obvously yes. Who are you (or Rall) to judge others choices on what they do with their lives?
I must say that even in the face of the disaster that Bush and his “foreign policy” is, I still think that to die in the service of one’s country is noble. I don’t blame the soldier for carrying out his orders I blame the fuck-head in office for giving the orders in the first place.
borehole
“I enlisted after 9/11, young and idealistic and stupid. For a thousand reasons, it was the worst decision I’ve ever made, and makes me doubt my ability to make good decisions in the future.”
I call spoof. Only because you left out the part where our government contemptuously took advantage of your patriotism, used you to further their own hideous goals, and WE LET THEM.
If you’re not a spoof, I owe you 5 free nut-punches. Please be a spoof.
Lit3Bolt
So some people are defending Rall, proving that liking assholes is definitely an acquired taste. But given the choice between Rall and Tom Tomorrow, I think I like me some TT (who is y’know, funny, which is associated with cartooning for some reason). But I think Rall could definitely start putting less acid in his venom, especially in regards to some things. For one, it undermines his point, no matter how valid the point originally was. Imagine America being a girl in tears after a breakup, and Rall’s the friend trying to console her. You don’t say, “Well, he probably broke up with you because you’re a fat, retardard skank-ass ho and you get all clingy and dependent and unable to function without continual reassurance and if you don’t change it up, you’ll die in the gutter as a lonely, childless spinster.”
But then again, maybe Rall has already made his point, since we’re all here talking about a fucking Ted Rall cartoon. So you see, he is like Coulter in that he merely shocks to virally spread his work. He’s just another money sucking tick that writes a good game for the outraged left (Hey, wake up, you’re liberal, now pay me 10 bucks to prove it) and likes to provoke the right but isn’t interested in any political discourse/solution. So in the future John, the best response is to treat Rall like Coulter and ignore him, because he’s merely trying to provoke.
canuckistani
But we aren’t just talking about a cartoon, we’re talking about whether or not an intelligent person would sign up for the War in Iraq. I’d say Mission Accomplished, Ted Rall.
Zifnab
One blessing of the Ted Rall comic is that its so blatantly obviously offensive that it basically invites wingnuts to go into a screaming, froothing fit. Where as ten years ago, this might lead to a debate about how exactly Rall should be hung up and skinned, today people recognize that wingnuts are so often wrong that Ted might have a valid point by default.
Zifnab
Oh, yeah. TT is superior, no question. His commentary approaches subtlety, by which I mean he doesn’t dress Bush up like a big vampire Mussolini.
Dug Jay
Rall has been dropped by most of the major media over the last several years, as even the most leftish of them came to see that Rall was little more than a deranged shithead with virtually no skills as a cartoonist…he can’t even draw, for God’s sake!
ThymeZone
Well, and neither is bat urine. It probably wouldn’t hurt you to drink it, so why don’t people drink it? I think they imagine that it tastes disgusting.
I think bat urine is the more apt Rall comparison here. Urine is generally clean, and it certainly serves a useful purpose.
While you sip on that idea for a moment, allow me to say that I don’t agree that Ralls’s “idea” is apt, either. We don’t ask people to sign up for military service in order to fight in Iraq. We ask them to do so to serve their country. And by a vast margin, they do so in heroic fashion, whether they end up in Iraq, or somewhere else.
Rall is basically asserting that since this particular war is not desirable or useful, military service in and of itself is idiotic as long as that war goes on.
That’s a very stupid idea, and Rall is very stupid for advancing it. Rall counts on peoples’ revulsion to the war to color their perception of his very stupid idea, and judging from the comments here, he is having some success.
Zifnab
Oh give the art cracks a rest. He’s not any worse than the guys who did Bevis and Butthead and King Of The Hill. If good art was a pre-requisite for good cartoons, then Simpsons and South Park and parts of Family Guy would be cancelled and immediately replaced with reruns of Evangelion*.
*Nerd points for those who recognize.
tBone
This is how wingnuts rationalize Ann Coulter’s screeching. It’s not any more attractive coming from the left than it is the right.
borehole
No, it’s not, tBone, which is why I wish they’d stop inviting Rall on all the cable news shows.
As a dabbler in the cartoony arts myself, can I just add that stubble on Bush is a really weird choice, caricature-wise? One thing the dude ain’t is rough-hewn.
grumpy realist
I think Rall is trying to do black humour and not being able to pull it off. Plus, from what I’ve seen of other pieces of his work, Rall’s attitude has been soldiers==deranged stupid killers, regardless of the morality of the war.
I can admire the idealism of a young 18-year-old signing up for this war right now all the while chastizing him for his lack of risk analysis and understanding of what he’s getting into. This cartoon by Rall indicates that soldiers sign up because of a wish for money, which I don’t think is true.
For black humour that really hits home, Joseph Heller, please.
HyperIon
i see no reason to insert the word “heroic”. they volunteer to serve. in some circumstances, some act heroically. and some don’t. IMO the word “hero” is overused and thereby its meaning is debased.
ThymeZone
I’ll stand by my version, which is that most do.
And without doubt, all should be treated accordingly, which is to say, with the greatest respect.
No problem, I’ll do it for you.
AnonE.Mouse
Patriotism and heroism might be what motivates some 18 or 19 year old kids to join the military.However,given the class representation of recruits,it’s more likely that it’s simple economics motivating the majority of enlistees.Not necessarily the paycheck,but as an alternative to what they percieve as their deadend life-minimum wage job,no money for college,no money for the dentist,etc.There’s nothing inherently heroic about joining the military and perpetuating that myth helps recruiters do their con job on many of these kids.
Like I wrote before,I’ll believe that patriotism and heroism is the great motivator when I see more doctor’s and lobbyist’s kids dropping out of Michigan or Georgetown to join the military.Until then,like most things in life,it’s about class and economics.
grumpy realist
It is class and economics, plus “heroism”, which has been ladled heavily into the environment into an attempt to switch off everyone’s brain. Can’t say anything critical about this war, how it’s been fought, or who’s ended up fighting it. After all, that wouldn’t be “supporting the troops”. Wasn’t it Owens who said “…that old lie dulce et decorem est pro patria mori”?
Plus the upper-class kids can convince themselves that they’re fighting just as patriotically by making comments on blogs and “supporting the troops” a la Jonah Goldberg.
ThymeZone
The heroism I’m talking about isn’t grounded in what motivates them. It’s grounded in what they do. If they put on a uniform and pick up a weapon and stand in harm’s way for us, then that is heroic. I don’t care what their reasons are. They don’t need my approval. They just need to show up. When we start making the honor and dignity of service dependent on our approval of what the military is being asked to do with that service, then the compact between the soldier and the civilian he serves is broken. The soldier doesn’t have control over that. If you want soldiers to fight more relevant wars, get off your butt and get a better government. Whatever you think that means. Don’t take it out on the soldier.
Anne Laurie
But I think Rall could definitely start putting less acid in his venom, especially in regards to some things. For one, it undermines his point, no matter how valid the point originally was. Imagine America being a girl in tears after a breakup, and Rall’s the friend trying to console her. You don’t say, “Well, he probably broke up with you because you’re a fat, retardard skank-ass ho and you get all clingy and dependent and unable to function without continual reassurance and if you don’t change it up, you’ll die in the gutter as a lonely, childless spinster.”
No, Rall is the friend who, after listening to the same goddamned story for the 87th time, tells Tearful America, “Look, the Repub sonofabitch mooched all your cash, wrecked your car while trying to drive over your cat, sold your dog to Michael Vick, gave your six-year-old kid an STD, and left town with your bipolar sister and your last paycheck after writing your home number in every public bathroom stall in town…. just like your last six ‘one true love’ boyfriends. He wasn’t worth your tears, and you need to get a grip and maybe some therapy, because even those of us who really do love you are sick and tired of alternating between watching these fcktards take advantage of your good nature and picking up the pieces of your shattered ego afterwards.”
Which is vulgar and thoughtless and horrible and doesn’t get Rall any points with the Nice People. But, you know, sometimes love and understanding and sensitivity and an endless supply of kleenex and hagen-daaz just ain’t enough therapy.
I mean, I like Tom Tomorrow, but when it comes to sarcasm he has as much bite as the chili at Wendy’s, and if he could draw he wouldn’t be using templates. Jeff Danziger — now there’s a cartoonist whose artistic credentials are as good as his politics.
Splitting Image
I agree that the cartoon isn’t very good. If people are missing the point that badly it can’t have been framed very well.
As I saw it, the point of the “Only idiots signed up, only idiots died” remark was that it is fundamentally true if you buy into everything that the Cheney machine has ever said. I understood the line about soldiers dying in car accidents to refer to the military recording some of their deaths as accidents so they could under-report the number of deaths due to the insurgency. That has the net effect of making soldiers look stupid.
As for only idiots signing up, the fact is that when you lie to someone, you are telling them that you believe they are gullible enough to believe what you’re saying, and Bush and Cheney have been lying so egregriously that they MUST think all of their supporters – including those in the military – are idiots.
I don’t know Rall and I haven’t looked at his blog to see how he’s been defending it, but that’s the impression I got. As I said, he could probably stand to be a lot more clear about what he’s getting at.
AnonE.Mouse
Who’s taking anything out on the soldier?
I agree,there is bravery in facing dangerous situations.But there is nothing heroic about occupying and terrorizing the civilian population of another country,no matter how noble an act the soldier thought he was performing when he enlisted or thinks he’s performing busting down the door of a familie’s home at midnight.That’s part of the con,convincing them that they’re fighting for us as well as freedom and democracy.Militaries throughout history have been misused and abused by kings and presidents claiming the same or similar ideals and they are abetted by the rest of us praising the inherent heroism of military members.Of course it’s not their fault they were lied to like the rest of us and are feeling the consequences of those lies to a more tragic extent.But the real heroic actions are being performed by the military members who are refusing to participate in Bush and Cheney’s crime.
And save your bullshit about me getting off my ass until you can be more specific about what it is I should personally be doing.I know who the fucking bad guys are here and it isn’t the soldier and it’s not Iraqis.
ThymeZone
Rall.
Wow, it’s amazing how many people really suck at this. I told you exactly what to do, read the post. Proclaim the essential heroism of military service, one, and two, if you don’t like the way the military is being used, get a new government. That’s how you leverage your civilian control over the military.
And implied by my previous posts, three, strongly decry the stupid and self-defeating Rall notion that military service can be called “idiotic” because we don’t approve of the way the military is being employed. Even when given the latitude afforded political cartooning, that idea is just ugly and wrong.
AnonE.Mouse
Pardon me for thinking that by your headlining my statement about patriotism and heroism and then addressing your statements to “you” (Rall?) that you were suggesting I was taking anything out on soldiers.Like I wrote,though,soldiering takes bravery,not heroism.
And thanks for your specificity about changing the government.Hold on while I wave my wand and give Republicans hearts and Democrats courage and voters brains.Damn,that didn’t work.I guess I’ll just have to keep doing footwork.
Libby Spencer
August said:
You say it like he committed a crime or something.
I’m surprised a cartoon saying enlisting to fight in Iraq is stupid is less outrageous and worthy of scorn than the comments on LGF saying Ted deserves to be beaten up or tortured by the army (and a great way to defend the army that is, by the way!)
I don’t know how you read that in my comment since I was basically defending the body of his work and I didn’t notice that I was defending the knuckledraggers at LGF or expressing any great outrage.
My point is the nuance, such as it is, would be difficult to discern by the average Jake and it’s going to be taken as an insult by the soldiers. I don’t hate Rall but I think it’s in bad taste to call the grunts who face a horrible death every day stupid — whether or not it’s true — while they’re still dying. They probably already feel stupid enough for signing up once they got there and found out how FUBAR the whole occupation really is. I think it’s rather cruel to rub their face in it.