The NY Post “reports”:
According to Abbe Serphos, director of public relations for the Times, “the open rate for an ad of that size and type is $181,692.”
A spokesman for MoveOn.org confirmed to The Post that the liberal activist group had paid only $65,000 for the ad – a reduction of more than $116,000 from the stated rate.
A Post reporter who called the Times advertising department yesterday without identifying himself was quoted a price of $167,000 for a full-page black-and-white ad on a Monday.
Serphos declined to confirm the price and refused to offer any inkling for why the paper would give MoveOn.org such a discounted price.
Citing the shared liberal bent of the group and the Times, one Republican aide on Capitol Hill speculated that it was the “family discount.”
Allegedly a reporter, Jules Crittenden writes:
NYT Lies, People Will Die
… If they have their way, that is.
Wouldn’t you know it. Times gave a break to MoveOn.org to gratuitously and falsely insult Petraeus. It isn’t editorializing. It’s subsidizing propaganda. Maybe Petraeus should consider cutting the NYT’s Baghdad bureau off from any access to the U.S. military in Iraq. It’s not like they are doing much in the way of meaningful reporting there, anyway. Could lead to some unpleasant truths being aired, a little housecleaning. Theoretically what the ad department does and what the editorial page does are separate from what the news department does. Or doesn’t do.
Did those reportorial juices get flowing for Jules at any time during his tirade? Of course not! This is right-wing reporting. It would not occur to him to ask around and see what other organizations have paid for ads. It would not occur to him to think maybe retail prices are never actually paid. It would not occur to him to pick up the phone and, you know, call his buddies at Freedom’s Watch, or anywhere else, to determine whether or not the price seems out of line. Or to ask them what they paid. It would not occur to him to do any of the things that ACTUAL reporter Jake Tapper did:
New York Times spokeswoman Catherine Mathis tells me that it’s Times policy to not “disclose the rate that any one advertiser pays for an ad. The rate that is charged for an ad will depend on a variety of factors including how frequently the advertiser advertises with us, the day of the week, is it color, is it black and white, what section it appears, all of those kinds of things.”
Mathis says the newspaper tries “to keep our advertising columns as open as possible” and “there are many instances when we’ve published opinion advertisements that run counter to the stance that we take on our own editorial pages.” As an example of how the Times is open to all points of view in advertisers, Mathis points out that on September 11, 2007, “we published a full-page advertisement from Freedom’sWatch.org, an organization whose view is opposite of MoveOn.org.”
Freedom’s Watch spokesman Matt David, however tells me the group was charged “significantly more” than MoveOn.org for its ad. The organization says it plans to run a response to the MoveOn.org NYT ad in the Times, “and we plan to demand the same ad rate they paid,” David says.
Note the folks at Freedom’s Watch refuse to disclose how much they paid. Will any of our brave truth detectors on the right try to figure out why?
There still is ZERO reporting and ZERO evidence that the NY Times did anything out of the ordinary, but the treason of the NY Times is now established “fact” on the right. And no one, and I repeat, NO ONE, will challenge them. And this is how it goes, day in, day out, as they fling things against the wall and hope they stick to their pre-existing opinions, and reify them for their own political purposes. Now the professional (and by professional, I mean the ones on fulltime wingnut welfare) wingnuts are involved. Brent Bozell was bitching about it on Fox last night. All that is left to happen now are columns by Jonah Goldberg, Malkin, and Hugh.
Two Questions:
1.) Has it always been like this? Does anyone ever stand up to these folks? And don’t people realize that in a week or so, should someone actually compares rates charged to different groups and find out nothing out of the ordinary actually happened (they may have received a big, out of the ordinary, and unusual rate cut, right now there is nothing to prove that these allegations are true, though), IT WILL NOT MATTER? By then, it is too late, and this will already be established truth. Like WMD in Iraq, bitches.
2.) How is it treason for a free press to allow groups of citizens to pay for something they want to advertise? And why is that wrong? And even if they DID give them a good deal, why the hell does that matter?
*** Update ***
*** Update #2 ***
Goldstein is also upping the ante, citing McCain/Feingold (something we actually still both agree on, and something that by itself disqualifies McCain from ever being President):
So the question once again is, was the discount offered by the NYT to MoveOn.org within the parameters of discounts given in the “ordinary course of business?
And will we ever know anyway, given that the Times will (as is their prerogative) comment only generally on their advertising pricing policies?
An interesting question, especially considering not one person in the fluffersphere has asked that or even attempted to investigate it. It was just decreed that the NY Times gave them some unheard of deal, and thus, is in bed with evil liberals. In fact, all the speculation to date has amounted to little more than ‘GEE- that sure seems like a big discount to me! There must be something wrong!’
Krista
And if MoveOn is a registered non-profit, that would explain a discount as well. It’s pretty much standard for all media sources to slash their advertising prices for registered non-profits.
cleek
how to be a wingnut:
1. assume the treasonous left did something wrong.
2. work backwards from there towards any other conclusion you like.
3. profit
Bubblegum Tate
It’s treason because it is TREASON, John! It gives AID AND COMFORT TO OUR ENEMIES! It UNDERMINES THE TROOPS while we are locked in a struggle to save human civilization! If you SHOUT IT LOUD ENOUGH, it becomes TRUE! By engaging in fairly standard ad rate practice, the Times has ENCOURAGED OUR ENEMIES! The Times hungers for US DEFEAT! They are nothing but a bunch of DHIMMI LOVERS!
Well, that, and the whole thing is a gigantic jackalope–and a fucking stupid one at that. Have they established the talking points to counter the fact that the “Betrayus” nickname originiated within the military? Or are we just supposed to pretend that’s not true?
ThymeZone
The only important thing to know about RW “reporting” and commentary is that maybe 28% of the population pays attention to it on their bestest day.
RW is all about Us and Them. NYT is Them. There’s no news here, nothing to see, move along. Nobody cares about MOVEON and its ad, no minds will be changed by anything said in the cheering sections on either side.
It’s not. Next question, please. Is Britney appearing anywhere today?
Punchy
Mr. Cole, I simply cannot believe you were once one of these clowns. How in hell you saw the light (read: logic, reason, common sense, decency) and these guys not only didn’t, but went about 5 miles beyond crazy should be a case study.
I’m serious. How did you see the bullshit but so many haven’t? Education? Morals? Lack of arrogance?
Pb
From the quick fact sheet found here, their rate for a black-and-white full-page ad (not on Sunday) is roughly $73,710 — which is roughly what MoveOn.org paid for it. However, in the business section (if I’m reading this right), it’s roughly $182,952 — which sounds more like the number the Post is citing. Of course, these numbers are just the “general overview”, for the real deal you’d have to talk to a sales rep.
I should note that there are also such things as price discrimination laws; I doubt any have been broken here, but I’m also not a lawyer, let alone a New York lawyer… :)
capelza
Yes. We are supposed to ignore that. Because officers in the military never get nicknames like that. How Beauchamp of you!
Didn’t US soldiers use to joke that Patton’s nickname “Old Blood and Guts” really meant their blood and his guts?
Or the one my husband told me about running around the camps and bases, “Vote for Nixon in ’72, why change Dicks in the middle of a Screw”.
John S.
Part 3 of the Fluffersphere 3-Step airs tonight:
1) White House gives Petraeus selective talking points on the success of the surge in Iraq.
2) Petraeus uses selective talking points in testimony to Congress to show the success of the surge in Iraq.
3) Bush goes on TV and cites Petraeus’ testimony as proof that the surge in Iraq has been a success.
I wonder where the Fluffersphere learned to do the 3-step…
jaime
LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!!
Face
Every time is see “NY Post” and think about its cred, I can’t help but play this in my head.
If Chuck D and Flav have a problem with ’em, it’s clear they’re a bunch of hacks.
laneman
Atlas Juggs video is hysterical – can she jihaddi anymore?
I am sure that the Iraqi’s are picking up the NYT every morning for their dose of aid and comfort.
fecapult
Is Freedom Watch admitting it can’t wrangle as good a deal as a bunch of hippy lieberals? Can it be that the hippy lieberals are more astute capitalists than the folks at Freedom Watch?
Surely they wouldn’t admit to such a thing!
Fe E
That’s a good question, actually. I used to check this blog so I could get an invigorating dose of irritation–but it wasn’t just so breathtakingly crazy I was left agape. And over the years watching the watching the evolution of Balloon Juice (its host and principal commenters) has been fascinating. Plus since this place isn’t as big as Free Republic or Democratic Underground (just to name two) the amount of useful thought and information is watered down by boatloads of trolling bullshit artists and straight up crazies. On an unrelated topic, I miss Tall Dave, Mac Buckets and Don Surber.
Or maybe I don’t! ;)
Plus, of course, the best spoofin’ on teh intertubes.
Q_Mech
The left started attacking Petraeus before he ever uttered a word, which proves that the left WANTS failure. Anyone who deviates from the approved groupthink is attacked personally and publicly for their mindcrime. The left WANTS failure. They WANT genocide in Iraq, or at least they don’t care if so many inconvenient BROWN people die. Surely the most important thing is that their political masters accumulate more power.
The left is populated by sub-human, racist drones who serve their vile masters. They live protected, oil-soaked lives of self-serving decadence and rail endlessly about a war that they’re not even affected by.
You gomers aren’t even human.
demimondian
John, John, John. Freedom of the press only applies to those who OWN a press, right? That’s certainly what the right wing (or, in fact, the libertarians) would tell you — if you want to print something, buy your own press.
Well, did you think that they didn’t mean it literally? DO you actually think that the framers intended for the NYTimes should have the right to spread pernicious doctrine? Remember, the Constitution is not a suicide pact!
John Cole
Hola Fruta.
Oregonian
As I recall, the Freedom’s Watch ad was in color while the MoveOn ad was in black and white. That seems like a pretty compelling reason for any price discrepancy right there.
Not the Senator
As an ex-display advertising sales person, let me tell you that the publisher usually gives the sales person the freedom to get the best price you can but hardly anybody pays the Rate Card. The amount of discount depends on how much unsold space you have in that particular edition and how good a negotiator the Media Buyer is.
With how lame a job Ari Fleisher did as White House spokesman, I wouldn’t be surprised if Freedom’s Watch got suckered on rates.
Wilfred
Reaction formation. It’s the only thing that can explain the intensity of emotion, the craziness of the reaction, the brain-numbing rhetoric. Simplest examples are the buffoons caught engaging in behavior they regularly denounce – this would be the definition of reaction formation, but it pops up continually with the wingnuts. Chickenhawk is another textbook example, along with accusations that North Korea/Mexico/Iraq/Iran are out to conquer the world, or destroy it, both of which are thinly concealed desires of the right wing mad.
FWIW, defense mechanisms like this one and denial help explain the general preoccupation with defense in all its forms: “Zillions for defense, not a penny for tribute”; “Defending the Homeland”; Security, Safety, etc. In any case, fuck them.
Pb
Oregonian,
Yes, color costs more, like, at least $25k+ more.
Jake
Dumbshit people have believed dumbshit things since there have been people to believe things. The fact that the GOP has several presidential candidates who believe people appeared to believe things roughly 6,000 years ago should be all it takes to convince you that some people are fucking hopeless.
Why do they misuse the brains they believe God gave them? I don’t know. I try not to care what private citizens believe, provided their beliefs don’t drive them to fuck with me. However, when elected and appointed officials spout insane shit (treason, aiding and abetting and terrorist coddling aren’t new accusations) and craft legislation and policy based on what the voices in their heads tell them, I consider that fucking with me. And yes, this includes the proposed resolution to wag a finger at MO.O. Not because I’m a member, but because I get the creeps at the thought of legislative action in response to the exercise of a Constitutional right. Where does holy hell that shit end? [/rant]
Ahem. Also, what Bubblegum Tate says.
The Other Steve
Yeah, and it doesn’t matter if FreedomWatch were only charged $50k for a similar ad. These whiners would still whine.
Welcome to reality, John. Now you understand what many of us have been so appalled at for the past twenty or so years. The whining, it’s gotta stop.
Melissa McEwan
Will any of our brave truth detectors on the right try to figure out why?
LOL! Awesome.
James F. Elliott
How is it treason for a free press to allow groups of citizens to pay for something they want to advertise? And why is that wrong? And even if they DID give them a good deal, why the hell does that matter?
Because papers don’t have an obligation to the public good unless that public good happens to mirror the right wing’s good. And then they do. IARIARDI.
MNPundit
Two Questions:
1.) Yes. No. Yes.
2.) IOKIYAR. IOKIYAR.
Welcome the world liberal activists have been living in since at least 1988. That’s why the bloggers are so “angry.”
Andrew
Jules Crittenden is lucky for Jonah Goldberg and Jeff Goldstein. I mean, 3rd place on the stupidest fucking idiot in the world isn’t great, but it’s better than first or second.
Librarian
This is the major difference between liberal and conservative blogs. The latter make shit up out of thin air and get their facts out of their asses; the former don’t.
Hart Williams
You might also note that the POST story is plagiarized from rightie blog “the Confederate Yankee,” whose proprietor, “Butt Plug Bob” (from his Crooks & Liars 2005 WORST POST OF THE YEAR, wherein he accused Google of trying to besmirch Christmas with the Baby Jesus Butt Plug, a conspiracist extraordinaire) rightly takes credit for this whole crackpot conspiracy theory.
Blogotry, as we’ve come to know, is where the MSM slams and slanders us, but is more than happy to plagiarize without attribution, although in this case, attribution would be more a ticket to Bellvue than to a Peabody (which are all being reserved this year, I understand, for Bill O’Reilly).
Documentation at the link.
whippoorwill
The wingnut ideological Gods must be fed, John. And they are hungry as hell right now. Their own abject failure is what gets it going. The more failure the more ravenous they get to destroy something or someone they perceive as an enemy. This week it’s the NYT and MoveOn. Last week it was The New Republic and Scott Beauchamp, next week it’s looks like it’s Iran. And if we’re not nuclear dust, sooner or later they’ll get around to you.
Jim Treacher
So: Jake Tapper is good because he did some reporting on it, as opposed to “reporting,” but the results of that reporting are still questionable because the right-wingers haven’t verified it. Huh?
Q_Mech
This is just another example of the deception, embellishment, and outright lies perpetuated by the leftist press in the name of Democrat political power. Journalists do their reporting from Washington or NYC, or worse yet from the Green Zone. As a result, your average American has no idea what is actually going on in Iraq or Afghanistan, or why it happens. They only know that they’re supposed to HATE George Bush, as if that counts as some sort of intellectual comment on the state of the world.
The only upside is that the left has finally abandoned the hypocritical lie that they “support the troops”. The left only supports itself, and only wants its safe, luxurious, oil-soaked lifestyle to continue without having to feel like they’re involved in something approaching consequences.
They did the same thing with the Vietnam war, which we won militarily. They dragged out the war for the sake of winning votes, which led to millions of deaths and the downfall of the governments of Laos, S. Vietnam and Cambodia. Don’t believe me? Go educate yourselves – read the biography of Gen. Giap, the architect of N. Vietnam’s war of imperialistic aggression. He says very plainly that they were defeated more than once, and only the American left’s efforts on their behalf kept them going. Now the left is working to do it all again – destroy the young government of Iraq and kill off potentially millions of people – all in the name of votes for the Democrats.
Meanwhile, we’re still waiting for the leftist media to turn up with Jamail Hussein, to give Sandy Berger’s crimes the same attention as the non-crimes of Scooter Libby, to call a muslim terrorist a muslim terrorist, and on and on and on….
John Cole
Jake Tapper actually provided something relevant and informative. Not as much as I would like, but more than anyone else to date. Jules, who I have defended in the past but have watched devolve into a third rate hack, did nothing but bellow and belch about the perfidy of the Times and come up with ways for Petraeus to punish them.
whippoorwill
Very good Q_ Mech. Your managed to regurgitate most of the wingnut talking points in just a few paragraphs. You win a free night in a bathroom stall with Sean Hannity.
John Cole
By the way, the serious answer to that question is that I never read just right wing websites or news sources. If I had, I might still be shouting out the same crap Q_Mech is babbling.
DragonScholar
The real result of this of course is to make the NYT think twice before running any add that offends the 25%ers. Its just looking for a reason to harass them and punishing them for DARING to publish something they didn’t like to see.
Nothing more. Their fantasy world is crumbling, and instead of being adults, they’re lashing out.
Wilfred
Why is it that the right always resort to this whiny, junior high school girl guilt tripping. Lame beyond belief.
Here’s a question, Q_mech. Like him or not, a jihadi has real balls – he fights, blows himself up and risks everything because he believes in something. He doesn’t get paid and doesn’t get laid, gets no Starbucks, Kevlar, air support or USO, and doesn’t post on websites. He tries to kill his enemies any way he can. He’s in Iraq waiting for you, so why don’t you and your guys become jihadis yourselves, not soldiers, but civil militia. Go to Iraq and kill some Muslims, if you want. I’m not being snarky, I really don’t get it – I think it’s man up or shut up. There aren’t that many of them, you know.
EJ
Oh for fuck’s sake – they couldn’t just wander over to their ad sales dept and inquire about how display ad rates work?
When I worked at a big city daily we had literally dozens of rate cards, and your rate depended on what type of product you were advertising, what section the ad was in, what day of the week it ran, etc., etc. And there was always a big premium for color, and different premiums for 2-color and 4-color.
Non-profits and political ad rates were fairly low.
Obviously someone just inquiring about rates without identifying themselves is going to get quoted the highest rate card rate. It wouldn’t be at all unexpected that you’d pay 1/3 of that – it just depends on what rate schedule you’re on.
BIRDZILLA
The WASHINGTON COMPOST or the NEW YORK SLIMES take your pick of the worse of americas leftists news rags
Mike S
Because it’s all they have left. It’s an act of desperation that has become downright funny.
It’s akin to calling the people who want out of Iraq “the anti-war left.” The 66-70% who are opposed to Iraq just laugh and the 28-33% who are Bush cultists all nod their heads in vigorous agreement.
Thankfully these people are pushing themselves past irrelavence and into the dust-bin of political thinking in this country.
Q_Mech
So the jihadis are your heroes? At least this whole NYT thing has enticed your jihadi-loving left to slough off another layer of hypocrisy, then. Feel free to go enjoy the pleasure of their company. I will personally consider it a minor improvement for all humanity when you reach room temperature at their hands.
Now for your little jihadi wet dream, there. They are promised payment in the form of women and fame, bright star. They will do anything for that payment – kill bystanders, behead captives, and generally violate the living crap out of the Geneva Conventions, human rights, and a hell of a lot of other things that you leftists used to pretend to respect. As for your insinuation that American soldiers are some sort of overpaid rock stars – you’ve gotta be kidding. No one can be that stupid, so I’m assuming that you’re just showing off for your buddies and I’m not going to waste any more time on it.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
Wow. File under “There are none so blind…” Unless you are saying that it isn’t “out of the ordinary” at all for the Times to give preferential treatment to its ideological bedfellows on the far left. In that case, we’re in complete agreement.
You guys can tap your ruby red slippers all you want, but this is reporting and it is some evidence that the Times gave a huge price break to MoveOn that it didn’t give to others, notably Freedom Watch:
1) The Times itself says an ad like MoveOn’s goes for $182K.
2) MoveOn says they paid only $65K.
3) The “undercover” Post reporter was quoted $167K for a similar ad.
4) Freedom Watch said its ad was priced at “significantly more” than $65K.
5) The Times refused an opportunity to explain the pricing.
This is definitely not the end of the story (it will be interesting to see how/if Big Media covers this, since we all know what would happen on the network news if it were Fox caught giving freebees to the Swift Boat Vets), but it is evidence to be considered by those whose fingers are not in their ears. As they say, Developing.
Of course, Pinch has the Times so flush with cash that its shareholders can afford to give away $100K worth of advertising. Oh, wait.
Q_Mech
The 66-70% who oppose the war generally populate the ~90% who have nothing to do with it. More Americans work for Wal-Mart than serve in the military, and they make up less than 0.5% of the population. So go ahead and laugh. Enjoy yourselves. Have another Big Mac, and enjoy your fat, protected, and utterly carefree existence. Burn all the oil you want, use all the plastic you need, and don’t worry about any consequences. Want to free your life of the Iraq War? Turn off your TV and you’re there. You won’t have to face rationing, or worry about your safety, or do anything other than live your safe little life in our booming economy.
Oh, and support a precipitous withdrawal from Iraq just like your TV tells you to. Don’t worry your pretty head about all those insignificant little brown people that will die. Certainly the important thing here is to get all those comparatively rich white people out of there, yes?
DragonScholar
Looking at Q_Mech (who apparently isn’t willing to go fight himself), we may see another example of the importance of anger to the right.
I think this actually is an example of the anger as well. The right wants despearately to be a bunch of macho heroes – in a sort of adolescent-image of masculinity. So this constant rage and anger, insults, lies, etc. is a way to feel the adrenaline rush of the adolescent-image of macho heroism.
Of course really it’s mental masturbation. It’s usually a bunch of keyboard commandos, overpaid writers, and spoiled politicians talking macho. But if they can keep the illusion up, they can keep feeling like heroes since they’re so righteously angry.
And of course it has nothing to do with actual, mature behavior.
Psycheout
Giuliani is requesting that he be given the MoveOn discount too.
The Sanity Inspector
Sounds like pretty cozy circumstances for a sweetheart deal to me. Does anyone really doubt that Pinch and MoveOn are on each other’s speed dials?
Bubblegum Tate
True, but at least he’s a different spin on the traditional wingnut. I mean, he’s got the basic wingnutia down, but he spices it up with this stuff about oil and plastic and consumerism that sound like they come from some douchebag left-wing “anarchist” from Eugene, OR.
DragonScholar
Tate,
I think the spin is part of the anger. If you want to remain angry, you need to keep finding new things. Ergo, one has to find new ways to be angry, and when ones argument is shot down, you have to move on. When challenged, you challenge back, not answering said challenge. It’s really a juggling act in a way (which is why there are some smart “wingnuts” because they have the intellect to direct at said activities).
I still can’t understand it. I mean at some point being this angry all the time is just going to kill you, if not make you crazy.
chopper
news flash! color ad costs ‘significantly more’ than black and white ad! developing…
whippoorwill
Yeh, Protein Wisdom, let’s just sweep that little thing called Iraq right off News Cycle and investigate the NYT’s business practices to uncover their unfair treatment of wingnuts. Sounds like your making a pretty good case for bringing back the Fairness Doctrine.
Do you really think the American people are just up in arms at the commie Times and their comrades MoveOn plotting to take over the country and will just magically forget about a unnecessary and bungled war, corruption inc., child abuse, straight and gay whoring, and selling Americas treasury to Chinese loan sharks. All provided by your local Republican Party. You guys ought to get a grip on yourselves for the good of the country.
Oh, and Q_mech. For your last post your prize has been extended to a whole weekend of bliss with the Great One.
chopper
“the open rate for an ad of that size and type is $181,692.”
is that an ad from a non-profit recurrent customer, full-page black and white on the same day of the week, in the same section and in the same exact markets?
somehow i don’t think the NY Post, bastion of high-quality reporting, went so far as to ask anything like that.
Andrew
Shorter Q_Mech: Out of the way, civilians. The military is in charge of the country now.
rachel
Wingnut: Blargh! Yargh! New York Times traitors! #&%^$&(*@&*!!!
Dirty Fucking Hippy: We will bury you, but whatever, Dude. Peace, out.
ThymeZone
Q_mech is either cassidy with a new handle, or else he is cutting and pasting cassidy’s posts from a month ago.
Elvis Elvisberg
You know, I used to read the Corner because I wanted honest views from all sides. Needless to say, I haven’t read it in a long while. Just went there to see if there was a party line reaction to the Boehner “small price” boner, and saw this at the top of the page:
This is Jamil Hussein all over again.
The larger story is that IRAQ ISN’T GOING WELL. Any rational human being would focus on that.
But the GOP would rather fantasize that the media is conspiring against us, because, hey, beats thinkin’.
Mike S
ThymeZone
This would have been a useful observation in 1977. Or 1987. Or 1997.
Meanwhile, who do we think is paying any attention to this MOVEON thing, and who cares? Do you know anyone who is not a politcal blog freak that would even know about this story today? I certainly don’t.
ThymeZone
I think this is the definitive word on the Betrayus controversy.
Please get some kleenes, and watch this.
Courtesy MSNBC Countdown.
Wilfred
More junior high, eh? TZ’s got your number, pretty lame spoof.
Rome Again
That’s just precious. Thanks for sharing.
By the way, I think you lost an x. ;)
ThymeZone
Heh. It happens.
Rome Again
All Hail the creators of the Flying Toaster and Berkeley Systems (Acrophobia)! I just love those guys!
Rome Again
Dang it, my link is backwards!
Jess
Brilliant summary of the point I belabored in the “angry right” thread…
Jess
Thanks TZ!
JWW
Hello John,
Is the the price tag the important issue here. Who really cares what the dollar amount was. The true reason for all the investigative work is only trying find something that pins the NYT. Is it okay if I use the word “reality”, if not we are beyond that. To allow and publish that any Armed Forces member is a traitor is not the “right thing to do”. Using the word “hate” is generally misused for just a personal dilike. The word “betray” is most often used in court as a mafia, narcotics, or multiple suspect case. When it comes to the defense of our nation, it is a death sentence. In betraying a nation, you are a traitor.
I see no reason for the NYT to print such an article, nor do you. You will however feed on this, though you no it is wrong to do so. Gen Petraeus is not a traitor.
Q_Mech
Is that you, Barack? When shall the invasion of Pakistan begin, again?
Jess
No one claimed he is. One can “betray” all kinds of things without being a traitor, which is a specific type of betrayal. He has not been accused of that–not by MO.O, anyway. Perhaps his colleagues in the military who first dubbed him “Betrayus” intended a more extreme interpretation–perhaps you should ask them what they meant.
Q_Mech
Funny how many of these posts, when they find that they can’t counter my arguments, refer them as “talking points”.
Well, I guess you operate from within your own understanding. after all.
Yeah, it is Jamil Hussein again – more proof that the media intentionally distorts the picture coming out of Iraq in order to pander to its shallow, self-serving leftist cronies.
As for Iraq not going well – you guys also said that we’d never find Saddam, that Iraqis would never come to the polls to vote for a government, etc. etc. etc. The lefty Foreign Policy amounts to “WE HATE BOOOSH!“, and you’ll mindlessly ape any ideology that supports that theme. No matter how many people die because of it.
Makes you long for the Good Old Days, right? Back when Clinton was president, the sun shone on parades, the rain fell on crops, and the UN killed over a half-million children with sanctions* ’cause you morally bankrupt mass murderers couldn’t be bothered to actually address the problem. You know – back when we had “peace”.
Disgusting.
*according to the Red Cross and UNICEF
whippoorwill
Can’t you wingnuts make an argument without cowering behind the troops. Your cowardice is really wearing thin. If you really believe the above quote then you are a first degree shit-for-brains fungus living off the decaying garbage formerly known as the conservative movement.
Xenos
Go get a dictionary and look up the definitions of “article” and “advertisement”. Check out “non-sequitor” while you are at it. Then go to Wikipedia and look up “straw-man argument”. You may find it in the “logical fallacy” section.
Then fuck off.
Xenos
Sorry, the BDS got the better of me there. Just peace out, dude.
chopper
do you have any comic-style tracts that explain your point better? maybe concerning the coming rapture? that would help a lot.
Andrew
Shorter Q_Mech: I have Cassidy’s arm wedged so far up my ass that I’m chewing on his fingers.
timb
TZ, thanks for the link. In my mind I was able to hear the actual voices of Sean Hannity, see the outraged bitching that is Goldstein, and hear the aggrieved personal loss that is Ace.
A must see video.
scarshapedstar
Yes. This is the archetypical right-wing “original reporting” fiasco. Here’s how it goes.
1) Somebody makes up some stupid post.
2) Glenn Reynolds links to it with “Oh, that liberal media.”
3) The stupid post is proven to be bullshit.
4) Glenn Reynolds never acknowledges that he has been proven wrong for the umpteen-thousandth time, instead linking furiously to other made-up stupid posts.
To the retarded observer (i.e., the typical Instapundit reader) this looks like an uninterrupted string of smashing victories, Glenn as Hercules, slashing off head after head of the relentless liberal Hydra. Indeed, in the mind of his Randroid / Dittohead fanbase, the liberal media has been egged and pied in the face multiple times on a daily basis over the past six years, and is now stumbling around blind and shamed like the starlet of American Bukkake XII after the cameras stopped rolling; the fact that the LLL/MSM/BDS community hasn’t collectively fallen on its sword has only one explanation:
They hate America.
Andrew
But I thought Judy Miller just got a new gig??
Jim Treacher
Another wingnut!