Is more “good news”:
Shaping the Bush administration’s message on the Iraq war has taken on new fervor, just as anticipation is building for the September progress report from top military advisers.
For the Pentagon, getting out Iraq information will now include a 24-hour-a-day, seven-day-a-week Iraq Communications Desk that will pump out data from Baghdad — serving as what could be considered a campaign war room.
According to a memo circulated Thursday and obtained by The Associated Press, Dorrance Smith, assistant defense secretary for public affairs, is looking for personnel for what he called the high-priority effort to distribute Defense Department information on Iraq.
***The Pentagon dismissed suggestions that the communications desk will be a message machine or propaganda tool, and instead said it is being set up to gather and distribute information from eight time zones away in a more efficient and timely manner.
“I would not characterize it as a war room,” Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell said Friday. “It’s far less sinister than that. It’s more like a library.”
I am fully willing to admit there is a chance I am wrong, and that things are going swimmingly in Iraq and that we are just about to turn the corner and peace and love and happiness are going to break out all over. Hell, I hope I am wrong. I hope all of this the past few years has not been a colossal waste, and I have no problem eating heaping helpings of crow if I am wrong. However, this sort of propaganda effort does not inspire confidence. In fact, quite the opposite.
All those reports of bad things going on- they don’t disappear if you pump out lots of good news. The basic statistics regarding life in Iraq do not change if you pump out stories about painted schools and markets that function some of the time (and even those reports are often dubious). No amount of happy fun talk about reclaimed streets due to massive troop deployment matters when the government is falling apart.
The problem is not that the good news is not being reported. The problem is that the bad news outweighs the good.
Snarky Shark
The problem for Reich-wingers is, the reality doesn’t match the fantasy.
BTW John, I was raised to be good Republican and played that role most of my life. Then the pubs went bat-shit crazy, and like you, I had an epiphany.
No one can call an addict on their bullshit like an ex-addict, and no one can call the delusional wingers on their bullshit like an ex-winger.
That is why you drive them crazy so.
And that is why your site is my favorite for plain old winger-slamming.
No mercy and no quarter.
KC
Great point. And, isn’t that the whole issue really? We pump a bunch of troops into a few concentrated areas, proclaim success over a time period in which we usually see less violence (summer), knowing full well we can’t maintain that troop presence at all. Then, we give Sunni insurgents money and weapons, call it “training,” all the while knowing these weapons are going to be used in their ongoing civil war against the Shia government. At the same time, we’re recklessly and stupidly arranging for the removal of the elected Shia Prime Minister.
If that’s the formula for success, I’d hate to see the ingredients of failure.
nabalzbbfr
I am glad that President Bush finally dared to speak the truth (however gingerly) about the massive treachery committed by Congressional Democrats, which was the sole cause of our defeat and humiliation in Vietnam. By 1972 General Creighton Abrams, a brilliant military strategist like General Petraeus, had achieved a stunning victory over the North Vietnamese armies in the south and turned over control to the South Vietnamese army, which he had capably trained into a formidable force more than capable of handling their Communist foes. The American people rewarded President Nixon with a crushing reelection victory in 1972. Congressional Democrats could not stand their humiliation and putting party politics ahead of the welfare of the nation, staged a coup d’etat and forced President Nixon to resign on trumped up charges of no consequence and then proceeded to pull the rug from under our valiant Vietnamese allies and handed victory to the Communists on a silver platter. President Bush should speak more forcefully and make it clear to the American people that he will use whatever means are necessary to prevent a treacherous opposition from having their way and sabotaging our hard won victory in Iraq.
myiq2xu
One of the treasured neocon myths is that we lost the Vietnam war due to bad PR (i.e. Der Backstab.)
That’s why from the very beginning of this war they have tried to “spin” the news to maintain public support.
They hired PR firms not only to sell the war but to keep selling it. They were trying to pay Iraqis to write puff pieces that could be used here and in Iraq. They “imbedded” reporters hoping to guide them to the right stories.
They tried to “manage” the news by not releasing casualty figures and prohibiting the filming of flag-draped caskets.
But they forgot two things:
The American public supported the war in ‘Nam long after the military people in charge had concluded it was unwinnable.
Not even the best salesman can sell chicken shit as chicken soup.
myiq2xu
Whoa, dude! Reality is for people who can’t handle Kool-aid
srv
You know, if the Iraqis didn’t need so much help just to paint their schools, I might be inclined to sacrifice a few more thousand troops.
Rick Taylor
My older brother told me that what really killed support for the Vietnam war was the administration was constantly giving rosy scenarios that over time proved to be completely untrue. The same thing is happening now. I don’t see why they don’t see it. Six month, a year, two years from now things are going to be even worse, and everyone’s going to know all the talk of turning the corner has little relation to reality, just as they know the happy talk after the invasion did.
No public official I know of has made honest case for continuing the war. An honest case would begin by acknowledging it was a collossal disaster to invade the first place. It would acknowledge that things aren’t getting better now, overall they’re getting worse with the Sunni’s and now Allawi leaving the government. Now you can argue that even given this dismal situation, keeping our troops in is the best of bad options, but these are simply the facts. Instead we get McCain telling us things are so good he can walk about in an open air market, and Guilliani acting as though he’ll expand the war to the whole middle east, and Mitt Romney explaining we might not have had to go to war if only Saddam had let the inspectors in and they’d found nothing! And this isn’t Rush Limbaugh or the crazy right; these are the leading contenders to be the Republican presidential nominee! What the hell is going on? Why has the Republican party lost contact with reality. It’s frightening.
–Rick Taylor
srv
Andrew Olmsted is blogging in situ for Rocky Mountain News.
Lit3Bolt
Ok, let me spell it out clear for bonzos like naba who’s probably a troll I’m about to feed.
We don’t have a draft anymore.
You get it? I hope so. Our military cannot fight anymore at its current levels. To do more will be to invite more death, suicides, broken marriages, families, etc. on our troops.
What’s that? You say Iran is a threat? Then isn’t that a good enough reason to get the hell outta dodge in Iraq? If IRAN is the real threat, why are we in Iraq? There are no terr’ists to fight, it’s just a bloody civil war with plenty of useless people willing to be suicide bombers on both sides. Suicide bomber does not automatically equal Al’Qaeda.
To protect us from future threats and to prepare for new ones, our military should withdraw from Iraq, and soon. Millions will die you say? Boo the fuck hoo. Millions are dying everwhere, such as Dafur. That isn’t incentive enough for us to waste American lives there. Why should we weep for Iraqi lives? Because we caused this? Yes, I forget, we caused Sunni-Shi’ite tensions and inflamed them. Yes, Americans are responsible for all, but cannot use military action, because that would be the act of an EMPIRE. So, let’s just sit here between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans and cry about dictators but yet scream in rage when they are overthrown.
As you can see, I hate both Dems and Repubs. Both have betrayed me most profoundly.
myiq2xu
Nabobo must be a troll. I just saw the same exact post at mahablog.
Rick Taylor
What really scares me is that the only way I can see to keep pushing forward the inevitable end of the war and admission of defeat is to expand it into Iran. Then they can say, sure things are going badly, but that’s not our fault, that’s because of Iran’s interference. And we can’t cut and run now! Why we’ve only just invaded and we’re having great successes, and so on. I think the Democrats number one priority should be ensuring the war doesn’t expand to Iran, but they’re doing a lousy job of it; not even able to pass an amendment that says the President can’t invade without a declaration of war by congress.
–Rick Taylor
Helena Montana
I think that we will find that the “mainstream press” (i.e., Washington Post, New York Times, LA Times, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, etc. etc.)will self-censor during this period of PR barrage from Ari Fleisher and the Pentagon, refraining as much as possible from reporting any bad news. I just have no faith that we’re being told the truth about anything by anybody. You really just can’t be too paranoid these days.
Going to be interesting to see how the UnGodly will pull off deposing Maliki and replacing him with Allawi (second verse, same as the first) while simultaneously maintaining that the surge is working and everything is getting hunky-doryer.
myiq2xu
I’ve noticed that despite the lack of coverage of certain subjects (all bad news for Bush) the truth manages to get out to the people.
Not all the people. If Wingnuttia was bombarded with 24/7 coverage from Left Blogistan they still wouldn’t accept that Iraq is just a pig with lipstick.
But people can figure out that after years of hearing that victory was just weeks away and that the insurgency is in it’s last throes, more of the same means we ain’t winning.
Rick Taylor
Speaking of insanity, I would really like to here if the republican candidates for President agree with Bush that it was a mistake to withdraw from Vietnam when we did, and we really should have stayed in longer. I think they should all be made to give a clear answer to that question.
–Rick Taylor
Tulkinghorn
Or pose the question more simply- If we had stayed in Vietnam until 1985, would we have won the war?
Why do you think that?
What defines winning that war?
(in other words, ask probing follow-up questions. Should have learned how in J-school.)
Bubblegum Tate
Don’t you get it, John? If only you, personally, would stop rooting for America’s defeat, we’d be having Glorious Pony Parades by Labor Day.
myiq2xu
Winning = When the Vietnamese people happily accept their neo-colonial status and support the US backed puppet-regime.
Captain USA
Isn’t *every* room in the Pentagon a war room?
scarshapedstar
John, John, John. This is a 5th-generation MindWar. It’s time you left the reality-based community.
Davis X. Machina
the only way I can see to keep pushing forward the inevitable end of the war and admission of defeat is to expand it into Iran.
Billmon wrote about Iran and the Flucht Nach Vorn before he pulled down his shutters. An excerpt and discussion here.
ThymeZone
Um, if this has already been mentioned, my apologies, I’ve been off campus for a few days …but WRT the story itself …
GOOD CHRIST! We seem to be in nutsoland.
A nod to Pb and RomeAgain for turning me toward this jawdropping story.
I’m out of angry stuff to say any more about this crap.
Just let this black period in our history please be over soon.
Punchy
You’re kidding, right? They exactly disappear. CNN, Fox, ABC, etc…you think they’ll report both? Do you really think they’ll focus on the neg if Bush is consistently pimping the pos?
In the end, the news reports the meme of whoever talks the loudest. Right now, it’s the right-wing spin machine, and they’re dominating the convo.
ThymeZone
I agree with most of your post, but what really killed support for the Vietnam war was the endless parade of death, with no apparent benefit accruing to America.
Simple as that. And the effect continues; if you have walked the wall at the Vietnam Memorial, you know it’s impossible to do so without getting a chill, even on a hot day, and thinking, what a fucking waste. What a fucking waste.
magisterludi
What killed support for Viet Nam– lots of things. Napalm, agent orange and the defoliation, My Lai, lesser known massacres of villagers, heroin ( cheap and prevalent ), undefined enemy, etc.
RSA
From the report:
What’s funny/sad about this is that channeling all information through a single point of access goes directly against trends we’ve all had personal experience with for the past decade or more. Sure, we have Google and other search engines, but they direct us to information without paying overly much attention to its source or content. Controlling the point at which information is released is just that, a matter of controlling the message. It’s not about efficiency or any other excuse the Pentagon is giving.
And didn’t the Bushies learn anything during the run-up to the war? Oh, wait, I guess they did. I suggest that the central clearinghouse be named “Stovepipe Central”.
myiq2xu
The problem in Vietnam is the same one we are facing in Iraq. SHORT OF GENOCIDE, THERE IS NO MILITARY SOLUTION.
In ‘Nam we could have invaded the North and inflicted a military defeat upon them (assuming China and/or the USSR didn’t inflict Global Thermonuclear Warming on us.)
What then? We would have been fighting an insurgency that would never surrender, and the US public would never condone genocide.
The Vietnamese had been fighting a war for independence against colonial France since the late 19th Century. They finally won in 1954 and then we butted in.
From the time we entered until the end of the war, “victory” was just around the corner. But they were willing to wait us out. After all, they weren’t going anywhere.
nabalzbbfr
Here is a more eloquent exposition of my thesis:
The Left Shudders
ThymeZone
Reminds me of “Those Amazing Nazis.”
A drunken lying piece of shit who can write can invent any history about anything.
Vietnam was lost because the center, not the left, of American politics, twigged to what a giant lie and what a collossal waste it was. That, and nothing more, and your cited artice is just crap. Simply not true, it was no noble cause, it was a political cause. It was the brain farts of very stupid, self-justifying people who were wrong, like McNamara, surely one of the biggest pieces of shit who ever held a government job.
myiq2xu
Uh, nabobo? Most other trolls don’t cite Bloody Bill as a authority.
Go take a couple semesters of history, a critical thinking class, and maybe some expository writing.
Then come back and visit us.
PS – lay off the kool aid too.
myiq2xu
Oooh, Busted!
Over at mahablog someone exposed nabalzbbfr as a ROT13 cypher for “anonymoose.”
There’s a cool link the the ROT13 encrypter too.
Pb
ThymeZone,
Also, regarding the Allawi PR firm story, Glenn Greenwald is on the case as well (and apparently ABC News saw his post about it, and sent him a statement on their own initiative!)…
incontrolados
I thought this sort of one stop shopping for news of Iraq was what Hewitt had turned the Victory Caucus! into. I’m curious as to how much one may reflect the other.
Tsulagi
Just can’t spin up my outrage today. Fact is, when Tard leaves the WH to continue his vacation in a different location, we will still be in Iraq. Plus I’m getting tired of watching the Dems acting like cats unable to organize into doing anything constructive.
Anyway, like the seven guys in the op-ed who don’t see the big picture, here’s another guy who has been at the point of the spear while operating in Baghdad, Mosul, and Baqubah who just doesn’t see the big picture in front of him like the ass end of the stick. He writes the Army of Dude blog.
Ending his 15-month deployment, he’s celebrating by outing himself and handing out his Stupid Shit of the Deployment Awards. Unlike Beauchamp, this guy can write. In a previous post about our arming and supporting Sunni tribes who now say “Down with AQ”, and having mixed feelings about now working with guys who earlier blew up some of his buddies, here’s a couple of paragraphs…
The guy cracks me up. But of course, he doesn’t see the big picture like the Malkinettes. Stay the course. Otherwise the dog and pony show dies.
Rome Again
Thanks Pb. Yeah, I sent him that one too, but he didn’t share so I’m glad you did. Appreciate it. ;)
(as an aside, I want to apologize for my asking to be banned the other day, I was PMS’ing big time!)
Anne Laurie
… what really killed support for the Vietnam war was the endless parade of death, with no apparent benefit accruing to America.
Simple as that. And the effect continues; if you have walked the wall at the Vietnam Memorial, you know it’s impossible to do so without getting a chill, even on a hot day, and thinking, what a fucking waste. What a fucking waste.
I’d love to have watched Dubya give his “We coulda WON Vietnam!!!1!” speech in front of the Wall. If he wasn’t struck by a bolt of lightning, it would conclusively disprove the theory that Jehovah takes a minute and all-encompassing interest in our affairs.
Or maybe he’d just have been beaten to a pulp by the families and friends still mourning all those wasted deaths.
I wish the trolls would decide whether Operation Enduring FUBAR is circling the drain because of us reality-based bummer merchants, or if it’s within a Friedman unit or six of being Teh Greatest Victory Evah for truth, justice, the American Way, and ponies bearing virgin Republican activists, if only the RBBMs would let the rest of us in on that secret. Nah, I know, trolls don’t “decide” anything, they just take the latest RNC blast fax and transcribe it. You can’t have cognitive dissidence if you refuse to cognite.
myiq2xu
Rome is a GIRL?
I thought this was the John Cole Chapter of the He-Man Woman Haters Club.
I want a refund on my dues.
The Other Andrew
This new Choose-Your-Own-Reality office is going to have to work hard to spin the fact that sectarian casualties are running at a double-pace. Click my name for more…
nabalzbbfr
Bush Deranged Leftist Moonbattery:
Call for Military Coup
myiq2xu
Yo, “anonymoose!”
If that’s yer real name.
Go sTROLL through somebuddy else’s blog.
jake
Oh look, an example of how Penta-Spin (TM) works:
Got it? Twice as bad as last year (due to sectarian violence, not AQI). How does the Pentagoon respond?
Got it? It’s better because they say so. That pile of bodies? Elementary my dear Twatson! Iran dumped them to trick the people who count dead bodies into thinking the dead bodies came from Iraq. But just in case no one buys that particular line of bullshit he tries to link it to a religious holiday/event in the US.
DougJ
And I say, ‘hey. Lama, hey. How about a little something for, you know, the effort, you know?’ And he says, ‘oh, uh, there won’t be any money. But when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive tactical momentum.’ So I’ve got that going for me, which is nice.”
Pb
Apology accepted — I’m happy to see you back, and to not have to keep track of yet another new nick for an old person (something ThymeZone has excelled at generating in the past…)
Also, thanks to Tsulagi for mentioning the Army of Dude blog–I was just reading that myself earlier, great stuff.
And, though I’m sure others have mentioned this already here, I’ll mention it again… Whistleblowers on Fraud are Jailed and Tortured:
Rome Again
You don’t play with “jirls”, huh?
I am not a “GIRL”, I am a woman. But, I do have certain anatomical features similar to a “girl”, yes!
Rome Again
btw, myiq2xu, you were female once too. All fetuses start out female.
Rome Again
Let me clarify that: all sexual organs in fetuses for the first several weeks of gestation are non-differential.
That’s what I was trying to say.
What that means is “you didn’t have one of those!”
rachel
This works so well for the Chinese government–who are no longer Commies, really.
myiq2xu
All right Carl! How’s that patented grass doing for ya?
incontrolados
myiq2xu,
Fems travel in different clothing.
I join in the thanks to Tsulagi for the link.
Rome Again — not my flavor. Just sayin’
incontrolados
Oh and myiq2xu — naba/anony/whatever — has been haunting Glenn’s comment section from the earliy days.
I find it odd that after the initial comment he’s only posted links.
Perhaps he knows the commenters here would take him apart?
I don’t know.
Think about where we are now — Glenn and John share trolls.
A shift. I’m still working on it.
Rome Again
Well, considering I’m not on the menu, I’m certainly glad to hear that.
Pb
Hey, why stop there… you were all single-celled organisms, too, and tens of thousands of years ago, you were all just a gleam in Mitochondrial Eve’s eggs, and Y-chromosomal Adam’s balls!
Rome Again
We were talking about the difference between male and female (or lack thereof – which is of course OT, but since my gender was questioned, I took it upon myself to bring this up).
The fact is, the male penis grows out of the same organ that in a female becomes the clitoris, and therefore, in the early stages of gestation, the male penis resembles the female clitoris more than what it eventually becomes.
myiq2xu
In most cases, the joystick grows a little larger than the mouse button.
All this dirty stuff is making me woozy!
Pb
Rome Again,
Yes, but I still don’t see the relevance / how the point matters whatsoever. Before that stage of development, we were all asexual. And, as I mentioned, at some point before that, we weren’t even multicellular. And we don’t even breathe air until after we’re born.
TenguPhule
If you want to experience what the Iraqi ‘government’ is experiencing in Iraq here at home, go right ahead down that line of thinking.
When being Liberal is a Crime, the only Criminals will be Liberal.
Lupin
I’m 53; I really wish we’d stop arguing about Viet Nam. It hurts. It makes us sound like Germans in 1930s Munich beer halls arguing about WWI. (Come to think of it…) Go see SIR NO SIR. If you weren’t there you might learn something.
searp
Much of the data of interest is classified. That is, the number, modality and location of attacks, civil affairs data gathered on combat patrol, intelligence on Iraqi political developments, etc etc is classified.
It is hard for me to imagine a library worth the name that is not only unclassified but open to the public. By definition, facts will have to be sorted and scrutinized before being put into the library. Moreover, facts that are derogatory re the stated government policy will almost surely be deleted or spun – after all, we’re talking about an arm of the government that is pledged to a policy and a result, not a neutral observer.
The Other Steve
Buy these guys some frigging diapers
The Other Steve
See, this is why we lost Vietnam. The lack of commitment to the fighting!
grandpa john
reading other steves link, stories like that should have bush cheney and the rest of the fearmongerers positively salivating, since this indicates that their tactics are working.
dslak
Damn you, time-traveling Scott Beauchamp!
ThymeZone
?
Us? Sweet and gentle souls that we are?
We would flay him, but only in the most nurturing way.
Rick Taylor
Ok, I did find one official supporting the war who at least sounded realistic. General Petraeus says we need nine or ten years to acheive our goals. I doubt that’s true, but at least it’s out of the realm of complete insanity.
–Rick Taylor