I just don’t know how libertarians are going to react to this:
Days after actor Michael J. Fox appeared in a TV ad urging Missouri voters to support stem cell research, opponents will unveil their own commercial during the World Series Wednesday night.
The Cardinals’ starting pitcher for Game 4, Jeff Suppan, is among several celebrities who appear in the minute-long ad. Others include Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner, Kansas City Royals player Mike Sweeney and two actors _ Patricia Heaton of TV’s “Everybody Loves Raymond” and Jim Caviezel, who portrayed Jesus in “The Passion of the Christ.”
“Amendment 2 claims it bans human cloning, but in the 2,000 words you don’t read, it makes cloning a constitutional right,” Suppan says in the commercial. “Don’t be deceived.”
Amendment 2 would provide constitutional protections for embryonic stem cell research in Missouri. The 30-second spot featuring Fox, 45, who sways uncontrollably in the ad due to his Parkinson’s disease, is actually a commercial for Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Claire McCaskill.
But the Senate race and stem cell issue are intertwined _ McCaskill’s Republican opponent, Sen. Jim Talent, opposes the stem cell measure.
Such a dilemma- what is a libertarian to do when faced with this situation? I mean, on the one hand, you have a guy with Parkinson’s who has dedicated the last decade to raise money for the disease, someone who has studied the disease, and is convinced that embryonic stem cell research has a good deal of potential for a cure.
On the other hand, you have a MLB pitcher, a washed up NFL QB, and an actress, all of whom think that embryonic stem cell research makes the Baby Jesus cry.
I guess you will just have to vote against stem cell research and for the Republican, even if you ostensibly support the research, because of the sexual McCarthyism of the left.
Bombadil
And the grown-up Jesus is in the ad, too (looking none the worse for wear, of course).
Charlie Pierce had a good take on it:
canuckistani
I know how I’m going to react – by projectile vomiting.
Andrew
That’s kind of freaky — Jesus-boy speaking in Aramaic?
The Other Steve
There’s also an interest group supporting the stem cell amendment that has been running ads with John Danforth. Danforth says the claims of cloning are lies.
It’s interesting that the Republicans are so out of ideas that to debate something they have to lie.
Paul L.
Adult Stem Cells: 72, Embryonic Stem Cells: 0
Blue Neponset
Baby Jesus is pretty colic-y, maybe Missiouri voters should think about what to do to fix that before they pass any fancy constitutional amendments?
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
That fucker got struck by lightning. I think the Lord was trying to tell us all something about Mel Gibson’s film.
jcricket
Dear Tiny Jesus:
But to John’s point, Libertarians, will make some “noise” about how this is just a terrible over-regulation of free enterprise and then vote Republican because Democrats might raise taxes on the rich or enforce some regulations or something else icky.
Libertarianism is just a spoonful of “sugar” (social libertarian beliefs) to help you ignore the “medicine” (tax cuts/regulatory elimination) they believe we all need. The sugar’s a distraction. They appear to have some sort of intellectual consistency because they fund think-tanks, wear bow-ties and produce charts & graphs. It’s just an act because “I got mine, now suck it” doesn’t sell well in the Heartland.
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
Plus, Michael J. Fox is faking it. I have it on good authority from Rush Limbaugh.
So that settles it- phony Jesus for President!
norbizness
They’re lucky Suppan is having a good postseason. Also, wasn’t Jesus reincarnated as Bobby Jones?
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
So, Mary Poppins is a Republican-voting Libertarian?
Andrew
Perhaps embryonic stems cells will, one day, allow us to regrow the missing parts of Paul L.’s brain.
One can imagine Paul L., circa 1944:
Mike S
I watched the ad last night and couldn’t stop laughing. Jim Caviesal speaking aramahic was just too damned funny.
jcricket
People who write shit like this have no business involved in scientific decision making:
I happen to work for a research institution (cancer) and this kind of “I read a report that one line of research currently looks better so let’s get rid of the rest” is fundamentally ignorant of how basic science works. I’m not saying we should fund everything, no matter how crazy (the moon is not going to turn out to be a source of fine cheese). But it can take 10-15 years before basic science is commercially viable, and during that time there are lots of twists and turns. Things that look initially promising, can turn into dead ends, and dead-ends can turn into blockbuster breakthroughs.
An entire area of basic science (which is what all stem cell research is now, including embryonic) should not be curtailed because some people (who are not scientists) are morally uncomfortable (based on misrepresentations of what stem cells are) or because the past few years of embryonic stem cell research hasn’t turned into “InstaCures” for everyone.
Let’s also remember that past few years of embryonic research have also been significantly curtailed because of the very misguided political/religiously driven policies people are now seeking to further cement.
jaime
Paul L. ESC reseach is less than a decade old. That whole 72-0 is bullshit.
You know what? We just mapped the human genome. It hasn’t produced anything beneficial that Merck can sell. I say we give it up. If Jesus wanted us to get into genetics, he would have said so in the bible.
capelza
OMG! They’ll be cloning them folks in Rocky Comfort! Stop the madness.
Signed, a concerned resident of Cyclone, MO.
Sorry, had a flashback to my childhood.
I call bullshit on anyone calling themsleves a Libertarian voting Republican. If you are a Libertarian, vote Libertarian. If you are freaked out about the Dems taxiong and spending..explain to me how you can justify voting for the GOP who has TRIPLED pork barrell spending???
RSA
From Paul L.’s link:
Boy, it’s tough to tell the spoofs from the real thing, isn’t it?
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
What if victory in Iraq is only possible with a cloned Army? Now THERE’S a moral conundrum for you, wingnuts!
(Also, who should we clone for such an Army- George Bush, Jim Caviezel, or John Kerry? We could argue this all day long, couldn’t we?)
capelza
The orphaned blatocysts…snowflake babies. How many of the anti-stem cell folks have adopted and therefore saved the blatocyst from destruction (or freezer burn) in fertility clinics?
Paul L???
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
Especially when you clone the spoofers. Just ask scs, she’s the only one who’s caught on to the top secret South Korean DougJ cloning project so far.
Pb
Regarding Paul L’s link, first consider the source. Is it possible that someone might have an agenda here? Heh.
Mary L. Davenport:
The Anchoress:
Yeah, that pretty much says it all…
jaime
You know what it is? I look at my aunt with MS and I think, the blastocyst in the petri dish or my living breathing relative. And I say fuck 30% of this country and what they “believe”. I say fuck the liars and the ignoranmuses who follow them. I say fuck Rush Limbaugh and the fake Jesus and the guy Eli Manning replaced. And I say fuck the embryo. Destroy it and 400,000 more like it if it means she or the thousands of others like her could one day walk up the stairs without exhaustion or feeling agonizing pain.
Face
Hey, it’s fucking MISSOURI. If they can’t find a way to outlaw marrying their own cousins (that’s not snark, btw), I’m not so sure we want them allow them the opportunity to make clones.
Cuz, I’m quite sure this bill does allow cloning. Lots and lots of zombie clones. If Jeff Suppan says so in a commericial, I have to believe it.
Pb
We definitely need a term for this. It’s like… Chickenhawk Crusade for Christ. Blogging for the Unborn. Keyboard Warriors for Life.
Zifnab
Capelza, what you don’t understand is that there is an enemy that wants to kill us. And that enemy doesn’t eat pork. The only way to tell who in Congress is an Islamic Extremist is to hand out all the pork we can afford and see who bites.
But because pork barrel spending is wrong, the Republicans have also been cutting taxes. Taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for the aggregious spending, after all. So the Republicans are fighting terrorism AND improving the economy.
Punchy
Reason # 5,901 why I hate the fucking Cardinals. I hope Suppan gets tagged for 8 runs in 2 innings. Sanctimonious asshat.
Andrew
What does cloning have to do with George Allen?
Pb
Sure, but that’s not even the choice that was offered. The actual choice was between what you said, and “Destroy it and 400,000 more like it”, but don’t do the research that might mean that “she or the thousands of others like her could one day walk up the stairs without exhaustion or feeling agonizing pain”.
That is to say, either way, 400,000 embryos are going to be destroyed, but in your scenario, at least we have a chance to do something for the rest of us. Bush vetoed that scenario. After no vetoes whatsoever in his first term, he vetoed trying to help her and thousands of other Americans, for no good reason that I’ve yet seen put forth.
jaime
Between Kenny Rogers pinetar hand and Jeff Suppan’s ignorance, I have no interest in the world series.
Punchy
POTD. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. The funniest thing posted all month, perhaps.
Steve
I’ve read the actual language of the proposed constitutional amendment, and I frankly can’t understand the argument that it would secretly give a green light to cloning. Maybe if someone could supply a link to the right-wing story on this, I could have a look.
DoubtingThomas
I just love it when John is disgusted as his writing beomes succinct, satirical, and right on target. The Daily Show would be lucky to have such a writer, although that thought most likely makes Cole shudder as well.
You’ve been on fire the past couple of weeks, John, as witnessed by these three sentences.
capelza
Who needs cloning when you got inbreeding!
Missouri…I have been thinking about this. Lot’s of old folks in the country, especially up north..lots of Parkinson’s and other debilitating diseases that show up in the older years… they are religious, but not batshit whack like the Southern Baptists (who have been hijacked by extremists…funny I know, but it is worse than it was a few decades ago). The Southern part of the state is another story..lots of outsiders have moved in over the past 20 years. Not sure where they stand.
I don’t know how this will play out. This is also the state that voted for a dead Carnahan over a live Ashcroft.
jaime
The good reason is that the veto threw a bone to the mouth breathing, knuckle draggers. The people that sent their kids to get arrested in front of that hospice. The people who thought that Terri Schiavo would get up and walk and talk if only she had a sandwich and a bottle of Dasani.
skip
And to think I was stunned by the Willi Horton ads. Old Turd Blossum is just chuck full of surprises—among other things.
tBone
You booknerds just don’t get it, do you? Words lie. Start looking things up in your gut instead of relying on those tricksy “words” and “facts.”
DoubtingThomas
Fixed.
Dave
What the hell is Amendment 2?
Zifnab
A number of states are looking to pass Stem Cell funding at the state level. I know California and New Jersy are looking to make a mint off of being free stem cell states.
This looks like one of those.
Zifnab
But you could implant into the filopian tube… and…
OMG THEY’RE TRYING TO RESURRECT HITLER!
Pb
The actual amendment — yeah, it bans human cloning. The two relevant lines:
and
So… possible loopholes… implanting in something that isn’t a uterus? Cloning of sperm and eggs prior to fertilization? Implanting for a purpose other than initiating a pregnancy? I’m not seeing much here, really, and certainly nothing that would make “cloning a constitutional right”. And isn’t cloning currently allowed in Missouri? In any case, the cloning provisions here certainly wouldn’t add any rights, so that commercial is just a flat-out lie.
jaime
But Jesus’ commercial said something about 20,000 words hidden in the amendment that makes cloning legal. Why would Jesus lie to me?
Pb
For fun and prophet.
Bombadil
But then you get an ectopic pregnancy, which could kill the mother, so she would have to get an abortion, and that’s a whole nother can of worms there. One wingnut crisis per thread, please.
Bombadil
OK, this thread is complete. There is no sense going any further, as it can only go down hill from here.
POTD.
tBone
Wrong. You just let the mother die as punishment for attempting to grow a godless clone in her unholy tubes. Problem solved.
jcricket
Of course. First, her name is Mary. And Mary was the name of Christ’s mother, and Christ, as we know, was a Republican. Second, Mary wore clothes that covered everything but her hands and head. She wasn’t wearing low-riders or showing off her belly ring like a dirty-feminazi whore. Third, she knew her place. Women should be mothers or nannies. Never bankers or chimney-sweeps.
I do have a vague memory of a song about some poor lady and charity, but that was probably just a deleted scene.
Maybe we should start calling the Libertarians Republican-appeasers?
Paul L.
So Adult Stem Cells research has a 200 year lead on Embryonic Stem Cells research?
RSA
Fixed. St. Paul clearly speaks to this point in metaphorical language, below:
tBone
Paul L is so cute when he tries to talk to the grownups.
Punchy
Wow, Zin is en feugo. I propose a new law–you can only recieve the bennies of ESC research if you live in a state that voted for it. This way, in 20 years, fully half the population of Moe-zurrah will be looking forward to wheelchair purchases and iron lungs while those in Cali are 85 y.o. and shooting hoops.
jaime
This ad has hit hard. So much so that the right is responding with lies, and meanness. Hell, my ethnicity is being attacked on some blogs.
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
Also, didn’t that movie support the banking industry at all costs (except when banking was boring, a situation easily remedied by the use of Carrot Top or other psychotic monster in an ad campaign aimed at children), and didn’t it attack the suffragette movement?
Or was it the other way around? And what does Dick Van Dyke have to say about all this?
I want to hear phony Jesus’s position on Mary Poppins before I vote with him on the anti-clone Army proposal.
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
Can we clone him? Please? Can we?
jcricket
Let’s also not provide new antibiotics (fruits of evolutionary theory) to Creationists. Let’s go whole hog and say that “no state/county shall receive more back in Federal/State funding than it contributes”. Red Staters love this kind of thing, right, because they believe they’re the self-reliant ones.
I’m happy that if you had these things together you have a pretty good recipe for the destruction of the economies for most red states/areas in America. You know the blue states will do what it takes to pass sensible healthcare reform, make sure that tax revenues cover the services people want, and move forward with science and innovation.
The Red Staters have spent 10-20 years trying to dismantle the system of checks and balances provided by the co-equal branches of government (including unprecedented attacks on the judiciary), eliminate habeas corpus, inject religion into public scientific decisions, etc.
Why should the Reality Based Community subsidize their efforts? Out of the goodness of our hearts? Because we believe that sharing the wealth is important? Red Staters can either come to their senses and vote to change their local governments, move somewhere and join the Reality Based Community, or suffer the consequences of their actions.
tBone
Not unless we pass Amendment 2. Now get out there and vote so we can clone Paul L and kill some fetuses strictly for political purposes. (That’s a pretty good spoof site Riehl has going there. I’m impressed.)
jcricket
I for one await the rule of our army of cloned tiny Jesuses
Bombadil
From Riehl’s site (via jaime’s link)
and
John, you’ve been to soft on that asshole.
jaime
For anyone who thinks Michael J Fox is faking it .
The Other Steve
You think you’re joking.
But that is what Republicans want to do. Let the mother die.
Steve
Some of the wingnuts are quoting a passage from Fox’s book that suggests, horror of horrors, sometimes he might stay off his meds for political effect!
In fact, the page I linked to gives a much fuller picture – it’s pretty long, but it’s compelling stuff. In other places, he describes what life is like while he’s taking the meds, and it’s hardly a bed of roses:
He describes his experience filming “Spin City,” at a time when his disease wasn’t public knowledge yet:
Obviously, it’s just a horrible disease, and the medication provides only moderate solace. But I think Republicans should go national with the message that Rush Limbaugh has so bravely put forward – it was wrong for the guy to show people how the disease truly affects him, when if he’d taken his pills and just waited long enough he might have stopped shaking for long enough to make the ad. That’s a really good argument, and since Rush is the idea man of the Republican Party, they really ought to run with this. The conservative majority will respond well to these Republican “ideas.”
Matt
Not entirely topical, but I can’t fuckin’ stand Patricia Heaton.
Perry Como
It looks like he just has to use the bathroom. — Rush Limbaugh
ET
I was having fun reading all the comments on the Dead Spin post – “Jeff Suppan Will Win For You, But He Will Not Let You Clone Him” – about this. They put it in proper perspective.
That ad reminded me how much I hate Everybody Loves Raymond.
Why did they film Kurt Warner in prison? And why did he wink at us?
Caviezel at the beginning (rough translation):
I’m Jesus, and I approved this message.
Jeff Suppan also offers lectues on constitutional law with his pitching instructional video.
Buddy
Actually ESR is NOT illegal. Federal funding for it is. There is a gulf of a difference. If it is such a potential boon, as so many say, why isn’t some rich medical philanthropist flocking to fund it?
A REAL libertatian would say ‘get the government out of funding this (and all other) research altogether and let the market do it’
Andrew
The right of the people to keep and bear Embryos shall not be infringed?
Bender
Shorter leftards: Michael J. Fox is allowed to lie. He’s got a disease! (And the lies are about Republicans, anyway! Good for you, Alex!)
Dustbin Of History
So what did Fox lie about?
jaime
This was my response on Riehl’s blog
Demdude
.
I didn’t care either way about her before the Terry Schiavo. Now can’t stand her.
Ted Barlow
I know how Instapundit feels. The sexual Mccarthyism of the left made me eat a whole cheesecake. Stupid Democrats!
HyperIon
i followed the link and saw this:
gimme that old time religion–NOT
Punchy
Cuz it’s people like you who fucking bitch when medications cost hundreds per month and chemo treatments run in the tens of thousands.
Go ahead, let Merck or Pfizer fund this. Just don’t bitch when, in 8 years, they need to recoup their investment and start charging $200,000 a pop for Alzh and Park patients.
jcricket
People who think that private companies will fund this type of basic science are displaying their complete ignorance (but hey, what’s new). They need to spend some time working in a research institute to see why basic science requires federal funding. First off, basic science isn’t as directed as clinical trials, and doesn’t have anywhere near the short potential payoff cycle. It can take 15-20 years before it’s even clear what discoveries from basic science will lead to. And that’s for discoveries that “pan out”. Plenty do not, but you can’t determine that from the get go (that’s why they call it research).
The type of R&D most corporations fund is stuff that’s already made it out of basic sciences. Now, the government and universities have gotten better at making sure they get “paid back” when basic science discoveries eventually become commercial therapies, but this system works for a reason.
This type of research will always be funded primarily by Federal and (smart) state governments (around the world). The profit potential is not clear enough for any corporation to take a chance. It’s either that or stop doing this kind of work and just tweak what’s already made it out of the basic science labs.
Libertarians, of course, imagine a world where corporations will sacrifice huge portions of their budget to fund research that has, oh, say a 1% chance of being commercially viable after everyone currently working there has retired. I’m sure the shareholders will happily sacrifice 30 years of profits and dividends for the eventual payoff.
BARRASSO
Libertarian ideas always sound so good before you think about them. Limbaugh made a mistake with the mocking of Fox, Fox already has more credibility than him, and Fox’s disease has more likability than him. Also I should mention that Ann Coulter is like Rush Limbaugh but with a working penis.
Mary
Steve quoted this part of Fox’s book:
And Bender dribbled:
Where did Fox lie? When he stated in his book that he was unmedicated when he testified to the Senate subcommittee in 1999? Or when he told the subcommittee that day, as part of his testimony, that, err, he was unmedicated?
Read that again.
Pure Parkinson’s symptoms without meds: tremors and stiffness.
ON meds: uncontrollable movement and slurring.
Now look at the interview videos and the commercial again. The flailing he demonstrates is NOT the result of unmedicated Parkinson’s. It’s the result of years of medication.
He didn’t lie to the Senate about his symptoms. His behaviour on camera is consistent with being ON medication.
Nice try, though, Bender.
jaime
Bender does not care what the truth is. All he knows is Rush squatted and took a dump in his scull and there’s nothing that come out of him but pure shit.
That’s the reason why Rush, and Bender, and Riehl and their kind haven’t actually quoted or linked to any doctors or scientists.
HH
Or you could say both sides aren’t right because government funding isn’t exactly something libertarians like:
But he’s not a “real” libertarian right? After all, he went to the White House and loves Republicans, right (just like NPR)?
Last I checked, libertarianism meant more than “opposes anything social conservatives are for.”
HH
Er, Cardin voted against stem cells so that ad was beyond misleading.
Secondly, there is not a scintilla of evidence that any candidate supports “criminalization.”
Oh I’m sorry I forgot issues were not the point.
But back to Rush Limbaugh and Mark Foley…
HH
Libertarian blog points out that libertarians are not really big fans of government funding – but this guy must be a right-wing handicapped-hater deep down, right?
HH
Latest libertarian blog to join the chorus… But he probably votes Republican right?
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
Yep, probably. What’s your point? That a lot of “libertarians” are really “Republicans who smoke pot”? I agree.
Eric Dondero
New article on the NFL, Republicans and the Libertarian Solution at http://libertarianrepublican.blogspot.com