To the list of titles applicable to the Republican congressional majority:
Rep. Mark Foley, R-Fla., submitted a letter of resignation from Congress on Friday in the wake of questions about e-mails he wrote a former male page, according to a congressional official.
Foley, 52, had been considered a shoo-in for re-election until the e- mails surfaced in recent days.Campaign aides had previously acknowledged that the Republican congressman e-mailed the former Capitol page five times, but had said there was nothing inappropriate about the exchange. The page was 16 at the time of the e-mail correspondence.
Foley’s election opponent, Democrat Tim Mahoney, has called for an investigation.
The first I heard of this was last night, when a commenter linked to this story. I defended him, because I thought the emails were innocuous.
And once again, I was wrong. He is a pervert. Apparently, as cynical as I am, I am still naive about predators.
Really, I don’t know why any of you even read me. Am I ever right about anything?
*** Update ***
DKos notes Foley is a member of the Missing and Exploited Children Caucus. I guess he really did love kids.
*** Update #2 ***
Wikipedia has this:
Foley has been one of the foremost critics in the House of child pornography. Foley introduced a bill in 2002 to outlaw websites featuring controversial images of nude preteen children, saying that “these websites are nothing more than a fix for pedophiles.”[5] In June 2003 he wrote letters to the governor and attorney general of Florida, asking them to review the legality of a program for teenagers of a Lake Como nudist resort in Land O’Lakes, Florida.
Foley’s legislation to change federal sex offender laws was supported by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, America’s Most Wanted host John Walsh, and a number of victims’ rights groups. President George W. Bush signed it into law as part of the Adam Walsh Child Safety and Protection Act of 2006.
Foley also succeeded in getting a law passed that allows volunteer youth-serving organizations like the Boy Scouts of America and Boys and Girls Clubs to have access to FBI fingerprint background checks to help protect children.[6]
*** Update ***
Woah.
Pb
LOL.
No, but at least you can admit it eventually. :)
Mike in SLO
Yes, you are right to acknoweldge when you are wrong, or when facts surface to change your mind. You assimilate new information and adjust accordingly. It’s why we think you a responsbile conversative and read you daily. It’s what we dream the current Administration and Republican leadership would do. Don’t be so hard on yourself, John!
Nicholas Weaver
Because you are one of the minority of the republican party who will admit that this is no longer the republican party.
ET
Frequently.
It is just that making judgments on incorrect or incomplete information is a bad idea unless you are Bush or Cheney.
Dug Jay
This is quite a contrast with what Democrats have done under far worse situations. For example, Gary Studd from Massachusetts, admitted sexual relations with underage male pages, and continued to serve for a number of additional terms in the House, and Barney Frank, who acknowledged that his male lover was running a male prostitution business from his Washington DC house.
Pb
ROFL. From Daily Kos:
capelza
Because we genuinely like you. Because you are honest..hard headed, stubborn, but sincere and willing to admit it when you are wrong or change your mind. Well that’s my reason.
As for Foley…well. Doea this mean Mahoney is a shoe-in?
Did Foley vote for the torture bill? Did he wait till AFTER the vote to resign? Am I too cynical?
Pb
…and then there was always the classic Washington Times story… I wonder how old Jeff Gannon was back then.
Keith
“The exposé centered on the role of one Craig Spence, a Republican powerbroker known for his lavish ‘power cocktail’ parties.”
This stuff writes itself, although as an editor, I’d change that last bit to “power cock/tail parties”.
RSA
You are the prodigal son, so to speak, where “home” equals “reality”.
Bombadil
Because every once in a while, you feed us straight lines that we can’t resist.
McNulty
It reminds me of that Law and Order:SVU episode where that judge who was thought to be a friend to abused women and opened a shelter for abused women was actually bribing them and getting hummers from them in exchange for him doing them favors.
Richard Bottoms
>Really, I don’t know why any of you even read me.
To see the dawning comprehension of a former true believer.
caroline
John Cole,
Don’t be so hard on yourself. The informaation yesterday didn’t seem that bad. It’s only this new information that really changes the facts.
canuckistani
You’ve always been right about evolution and ID. You might be right about football, but it isn’t hockey, so I’m not sure. You are never right about cats. They’re eeevil.
EL
Because you are willing to think, and to change your mind.
I think your defense of Foley reflected what I’ve seen when people are confronted with allegations of child abuse of any sort: they find analogies to their own behaviour (but in very different context), they know they wouldn’t do it, so they believe the accused wouldn’t do such things either.
The context is key. The tip-off was that the page himself found it disturbing.
Mr Furious
So, if the page wasn’t a guy do you think he would have resigned/been tossed overboard?
capelza
Oh my gosh…cats are so not evil…they are libertarian!
Yes, I forgot to add John’s defense of science and reason, his opposistion to torture and his stance on the the Sciavo thing.
ThymeZone
It’s the free food.
.
.
.
But seriously …. your flock just likes you.
Richard 23
Oh, come on! You man up when you realize you’ve made a mistake. When you’re wrong you’re wrong and when you’re right you’re right. Nobody’s perfect.
More proof of the old adage: it takes one to know one. I wonder how large his collection of research material into kidde porn is.
Anyone know his position on gay scout leaders?
Bombadil
Horizontal?
Richard Bottoms
>Anyone know his position on gay scout leaders?
Openly gay guys, you know the evil people we can’t let get married, would just ask for a date. Not my thing, but I was flattered.
The married closet cases like Foley give off a sick vibe that anyone who was ever molested can pick up in a minute.
Steve
I actually feel somewhat sorry for the guy. I mean obviously, his behavior was creepy and wrong and I make no excuses for it. But he didn’t have to choose to be an advocate against child pornography and graphic websites. He could have made any number of other issues his legislative priority.
I dunno, maybe he had some ultra-creepy motive like being able to find out which websites had the cutest boys. But I wonder if, in some sense, he wasn’t trying to atone for his inappropriate behavior by doing the right thing on a political level. Maybe he couldn’t control his impulses, but he felt that by protecting other kids he was making up for it somehow.
Bombadil
Possibly. Or maybe he was just a sexual predator.
AkaDad
Bombadil Says:
LOL
Bruce Moomaw
Isn’t it interesting, though? A sex scandal — even one that does relatively little harm to people (aside from creeping them out) — and they have to quit immediately. But a gigantic, nationally destructive financial scandal of the Abramoff type (turn to “TPM Muckraker” for the latest wad of thousands of newly released E-mails by Just Plain Jack, confirming that Rove and Ken Mehlman were among his most dependable go-to guys) — or a scandal involving a deliberately trumped-up war, or wholesale torture and abuse of detainees (many of them innocent) — and they hold on like barnacles.
Pb
If the page had been a 16 year old girl who came forward? Hell yes he would have been. And especially if we later heard from other young girls etc., once these stories break, other accounts tend to have a way of bubbling to the surface.
SeesThroughIt
*rimshot*
Bombadil
While I take your point, Bruce, this was more than just a sex scandal that does “relatively little harm” — he was dealing with minors, here.
Pb
Bruce Moomaw,
The media actually *covers* sex scandals. But everything else–fraud, graft, war profiteering, war mongering, treason, etc.–apparently requires Congressional oversight. Except during the Clinton years, of course, when sex scandals required Congressional oversight… *sigh*
DougJ
Come on, what about all the 16 year-old boys Clinton sent creepy emails to?
jaime
Dug Jay, does the buck stop anywhere with you fucking wingnuts?
Now it’s a Democrat plot to hold onto the news just before the elections.
This wingnuttery brought to you by the loyal subjects of the fiefdom of “Free”republic.
sglover
I actually feel somewhat sorry for the guy. I mean obviously, his behavior was creepy and wrong and I make no excuses for it. But he didn’t have to choose to be an advocate against child pornography and graphic websites. He could have made any number of other issues his legislative priority.
Errrr…. So why feel sorry for the hypocritical asshole? I think you’ve got things exactly inverted. If he’s gay and aboveboard, so what? It’s the sanctimonious maggots chiping away at our liberties — to “defend” us from things that evidently they themselves indulge in or profit from — who deserve nothing but contempt.
Oh, and another thing — why am I not surprised that this scumbag is a “morals” Republican? He can eat shit and die.
DougJ
The kid was asking for it. Did you see how he was dressed? I bet he’s a Democratic activist who was trying to entrap the poor Congressman.
mrmobi
John, may I also say that you’re being too hard on yourself?
We read you because there just aren’t that many places where one can find a conservative with a conscience these days.
Richard Bottoms
Snap!
DougJ
How come never hear the good news about all the pedophiles in Congress?
To be serious for a minut here: John, you were right to defend him at first. Innocent until proven guilty.
ThymeZone
I don’t think Darrell and Mac really appreciate having their personal lives blabbed all over the internets like this.
jaime
What is the Democrat plan to send creepy emails to 16 year old pages?
Steve
It’s the sanctimonious maggots chiping away at our liberties—to “defend” us from things that evidently they themselves indulge in or profit from —who deserve nothing but contempt.
I don’t get it. I don’t consider the right to have sex with young boys to be one of the precious freedoms that Republicans love to trample on. I don’t consider it a right at all.
If someone likes to have sex with young boys, but tries to compensate for it by passing laws that stop other people from having sex with young boys, I’m not saying it makes up for his underlying creepiness. But I don’t think it makes him WORSE than someone who likes to have sex with young boys, period.
Somehow “hypocrisy” became the worst sin a person can commit. I don’t agree. Bill Bennett may be a hypocrite for trying to regulate people’s morals while being a sleazy guy in his personal life, but the point is he’s being an extra-bad guy by (1) trying to pass bad laws while (2) being a hypocrite about it. That doesn’t mean I have to similarly condemn someone who (1) tries to pass GOOD laws while (2) being a hypocrite about it.
I just think it’s interesting to try and figure out what goes on in the guy’s head. I’m definitely not making excuses for him.
DougJ
I blame — he had 8 years to deal with Foley and did nothing. And as for that memo Bush received saying “Foley determined to send creepy email 16 year old page”, remember it didn’t say which page or what email account he Foley would send the messages from.
Louise
You’re a reality-based conservative who speaks out against theocrats and hypocrites. What’s not to like? In fact, most days I think we should get you on some kind of endangered species list, just to be sure you stick around.
ThymeZone
In most cases, they’re not even genuine sanctimonious maggots. They’re just opportunists, pushing emotional buttons to get votes, and they don’t really give a damn about the sanctimony.
The sanctimonious ones are being used and manipulated for their votes.
DougJ
Actually, to be serious again, I do feel sorry for the guy. And it sounds like he did try to make up for his own tendencies by being an advocate for children’s causes. He shouldn’t be in Congress and it is possible he did something illegal. But I think people like him suffer from a sickness that may be beyond their control to some extent. Obviously, they should still suffer the consequences of their actions, but I’m loathe to describe the guy as a monster. I’m sure he feels terrible right now.
That said, I don’t see why we shouldn’t joke about it.
Tsulagi
Is there any need for The Daily Show to have writers on staff with Republicans in office? They really do write their own shit.
Even though the page isn’t old enough to be registered to vote, how long before he’s labeled a Democrat ambush operative? Never pass up an opportunity to feed the persecution meme.
Rudi
I wonder if he’s been caught up in a MSNBC sting operation?
sglover
Somehow “hypocrisy” became the worst sin a person can commit. I don’t agree. Bill Bennett may be a hypocrite for trying to regulate people’s morals while being a sleazy guy in his personal life, but the point is he’s being an extra-bad guy by (1) trying to pass bad laws while (2) being a hypocrite about it. That doesn’t mean I have to similarly condemn someone who (1) tries to pass GOOD laws while (2) being a hypocrite about it.
OK, I’ll type this sloooooowly. If we were talking about the guy at the corner bar who’s always complaining about goddam faggots, and then turns out to have a weekly habit of cruising the local gay pickup hangouts, nobody would care. It’d be just another example of human frailty. But somehow it seems a tad different when it’s not the local tavern crank, but a guy who makes a practice of introducing laws that can destroy people’s lives, to defend against largely illusory bogeymen — and he’s one of the bogeymen!! Understand, now?
Punchy
Fixed.
sglover
In most cases, they’re not even genuine sanctimonious maggots. They’re just opportunists, pushing emotional buttons to get votes, and they don’t really give a damn about the sanctimony.
Good point. I think we have a semantic disagreement. To me, “sanctimonious” always implies false piety.
jaime
All I can think of now is this guy.
DougJ
guy who makes a practice of introducing laws that can destroy people’s lives, to defend against largely illusory bogeymen—and he’s one of the bogeymen!!
But you have to admit, given that he was a bogyman himself, he probably didn’t see the boogeymen as largely illusory.
Andrew
Look it, somebody needs to represent the pedophiles of America, right?
A Florida Congressman is, well, the first person I would pick.
Steve
No, I completely don’t understand, although maybe DougJ explained it better than I can.
As far as I can tell, the laws this guy favored were laws against child porn on the Internet and things of that nature. I’m against child porn on the Internet and the people who make money by pushing it, so I don’t have a problem with that. You need to do a better job of explaining what you mean by “laws that can destroy people’s lives.”
Pb
Confusingly, you’re both right:
But I think the second definition later gained prominence:
Pb
So I take it you’ve never looked into those laws, then? If they were all about going after the people who make money by pushing it, I’d be all for them. Unfortunately, they aren’t–not even close. Actually, the perfect analogy here is “The War On Drugs”, except that in this case they probably spend most of their time going after the deadly Oregano Users.
Richard 23
Jeepers. Anyone still feel sorry for this guy?
Uh huh. Just interested in “helping out” young people.
Steve
Ok, before I get further caricatured as taking the pro-pervert position, I’ll just drop it.
Dungheap
For those of you wondering about the promptness of the resignation, just one day after the arguably innocuous e-mails surfaced, consider this:
ThymeZone
My take on sanctimony is that it’s usually well intentioned, sincere, wrongheaded, and evil. Not necessarily in that order.
srv
Oh, just a bunch of locker room talk amongst men.
Or maybe this shows just how bad things are with our corrosive values, that a moderate Republican congressman can be turned into a crazed sexual predator.
Just how would y’all handle being surrounded by teenage girls wanting to impress you?
Richard 23
Oh come on. Give me a break. Did Foley try to pass laws to protect against powerful men hitting on young pages and employees? No he did not. He’s a hypocrite and a predator. Perhaps he was more overt and successful with someone we haven’t heard about yet, maybe not. But he certainly tested the limits even if he didn’t cross the line, yet.
Furiously masturbating to what appears to be kiddie porn in the privacy of one’s own home may be creepy enough. Not saying he did that. We don’t know what materials he has in his home, office or computer. But using one’s position of power to hit on minors is something entirely different. That’s active rather than passive behavior.
I don’t feel sorry for this guy at all. He could have sought help for his problem instead of inflicting it on his pages. His desire to “help” young people does not cancel out his own predatory behavior.
Just my two cents.
Steve
It really troubles me to think that you could read my comments and believe that I actually feel this way. Of course it doesn’t make it right, for the love of God!
Richard 23
Probably differently than you. But is this somehow relevant?
Punchy
No, I think the page has a book to sell, and that’s why these accusations are being made.
The Other Steve
Well, I think it’s nice that you can admit you were wrong, John.
Maybe we who are not categorized on the left are simply more worldly. I don’t know. But I saw those emails, and I immediately identified them as creepy.
The Other Steve
The hatred of hypocrisy is a Christian values thing. If you look at the teachings of Christ, that was by far one of things he railed about the most. He called the Pharisees hypocrites numerous times.
The Other Steve
I think I meant, “we who are categorized as being on the left”. :-)
sglover
Ok, before I get further caricatured as taking the pro-pervert position, I’ll just drop it.
I don’t read your remarks that way. Hell, at the risk of “taking the pro-pervert position” myself, I’ve long thought that most of the laws designed to “protect the children” from the “menace of sexual predators” are good examples of a decaying democracy. First, while the “menace” they purport to combat is certainly distasteful, it’s also statistically negligible. Politicians and bluenoses love crowing about these “get tough” laws as a way of demonstrating their “values”. Then, once they’re safely in office, they can get on with the hard work of gutting budgets for children’s health care and education. The “War on Drugs” and so-called “Hate Crime Laws” stem from the same unthinking, demonizing, pandering reflexes.
If memory serves, when Megan’s (or whoever it was) Law was making its rounds through the states, the legislatures would invariably respond with overwhelming majorities — 95%+, even unanimous approval. Now, it could be that these bills were models of absolutely perfect, just, and lucid law. But when I see a majority like that, I kinda suspect that somebody’s too brain-dead or too scared to ask some obvious questions. Either that, or the old Soviet Politburo must’ve done some absolutely stellar law-making….
Tsulagi
From the family values party…
Maf54: Do I make you a little horny ?
Teen: A little.
Maf54: Cool.
These guys continually find new ways to prove to me they provide no value added from the air they use. I have some Republican votes (not Bush!) in my “archives.” I so badly want to delete them.
The Other Steve
Oh yeah, one more thing.
I agree that it doesn’t make them worse. It doesn’t make them better either.
But I will comment from my examination of human behavior. Someone who is advocating strongly for a law, and I mean very strongly… usually has a personal connection.
Now you can look at John Walsh or Patty Wetterling, and you can see that personal connection. They lost their own children to predators.
But Mark Foley? Why? Because he can sympathize? How so? How can he possibly understand? You have to ask that question. Was he abused himself? Or does he abuse others? Or both?
DougJ
Just how would y’all handle being surrounded by teenage girls wanting to impress you?
I am and I have no sympathy for those who act unprofessionally in that circumstance. None. But I think this guy is a sicko and I feel sorry for him about that.
Punchy
Is this real, or an Austin Powers quote? If it’s the former….ewwwwwwwwww….
Tsulagi
That was my first thought too. LOL. Apparently this was one of the IMs shown to Foley that led to his immediate cutting and running.
Not only do these guys actively work at being assholes, they also make retarded jokes of themselves in the process.
Pb
I agree, and I saw this quote again today and was reminded of it–and while it might not quite fit what you were saying, it’s perfect on the topic of politicians trying to pass stupid laws.
srv
Man of steel, you are.
If you’ve ever spent time around congressional staffs, you’d note a plethora of attractive young females and males. You’d almost wonder if something else is going on, or just the beautiful people aspire to hang out with politicians.
True story – Clinton could recall the names of a half-dozen or so of my female cousins (teenage to 30, and of course attractive) after just meeting them once. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
He’s just a young female asian prostitute stuck in the body of a republican congressman.
DougJ
If you’ve ever spent time around congressional staffs, you’d note a plethora of attractive young females and males.
I know a few staffers and I’m not inclined to agree. I think it’s more that the politicians are so ugly that the staffers look good by comparison. I’m not kidding here — I think it’s true that politics is show business for ugly people.
Pb
I’d recommend them for psychological evaluation. Oh wait, teenage girls, no need. I’d just ask them what’s the latest in entertainment news, and once they started blabbing about the latest blonde bimbo or hollywood hunk, I’d be fine in any case.
srv
Me thinks you probably hang with some liberal hag politicians who never get laid.
Mac Buckets
Geez, John. Talking about tarring with a broad brush! So can we call the Democratic minority “drunk-driving murderers?”
Steve
And “KKK supporters.” Yep, you can and do.
Richard Bottoms
No problem. I’ll do it for you. They are monsters.
Now being a black man I can’t by any strech on the imagination trust the government to always get the right guy, because they don’t, as 75 ex-death row imates will tell you. So I am not one of the castrate them/exeecute them crowd. At least where the first offense is concerned.
But emotionally, I want them dead. All of them.
Richard Bottoms
No, just Laura Bush.
ThymeZone
Myyeeaahhh, I don’t think “drunk driving” is a theme that this administration is going to want to bring up.
Skip
“Really, I don’t know why any of you even read me. Am I ever right about anything?”
I believe the right word is Schadenfreude
Richard 23
Here’s more:
But if you prefer irony:
Hat tip: AmericaBlog
Richard 23
More irony:
Pb
Oh snap, this story just keeps getting juicier: House GOP Leadership Knew About Foley.
Yep, nothing like a sex scandal to get the media on alert and investigating Congress again! Sheesh.
John S.
MacBuckets looooves Teddy. But seriously, why not?
It isn’t like George Bush…er, wait.
It isn’t like Laura Bush killed anyone by driving…er, wait.
Aw, dang.
Angus
This guy is a freak and way creepy, but it is just off base to call him a pedophile, as even a cursory Google search shows. The page was 16 years old, which is the legal age of consent in D.C. and in about 50% of U.S. states.
jaime
What’s pissing me off now, is this idiot makes his mouth breathing conservative base convinced that all homosexuals are pedophiles.
Pb
Angus,
I don’t think it’s necessarily off base, actually it’s common usage. Also, consider the age difference. However, what would you suggest?
John S.
Can we call him a card-carrying member of NAMBLA?
Which at the very least makes him a pederast.
Pb
jaime,
If that’s the lesson they take from this, then it doesn’t really matter what the circumstances are, because they are unreasoning. For example, Jim McGreevey isn’t a pedophile. Then again, he isn’t a Republican either. :)
Steve
The legal age of consent in Florida is 16… but only if the other party is under 24. Otherwise, it’s 18 all the way.
Maybe your Google searches should be less cursory.
Pb
And as a bare minimum threshold and a rule of thumb to verify non-creepiness… half your age plus six, baby!
Steve
That’s stunning. I mean, of course Mac is right that one bad guy doesn’t taint the whole party, but when we find out party leadership knew a year ago and covered it up, that’s a whole different story.
The Republican Party… so desperate to hold power that they knowingly kept a sexual predator in Congress, as the head of the child sex offender caucus, no less.
No, there couldn’t be a campaign issue in this, or anything. My God. What utter moral emptiness.
jaime
No. What Mac is saying is one bad guy doesn’t taint the Republican party.
ThymeZone
If so, then he’s right.
DougJ
It might be better if we stay away from the word “taint” for the rest of this thread. Unless it comes up in one of Foley’s emails or IM messages, of course.
Steve
Point to Jaime… and point to DougJ as well. Ugh.
chopper
A Florida Congressman is, well, the first person I would pick.
florida? but that’s america’s wang!
srv
Hmmm. Seems like the House and the Catholic Church leadership may have a few things in common.
Anyone know the criminal penalties in these new bills for people who know an online crime has been committed but doesn’t report it?
Richard 23
Well Red State commenters point out helpfully that he’s a RINO, so not a real Republican. Further down you’ll learn that the liberal media knew about this story quite some time ago and sprung it just in time to help Democrats in the 2006 elections. Another commenter suggests that this may have been entrapment of some kind. Also that Republicans get rid of their bad eggs while Democrats hush up incriminating stories about and stand behind their bad eggs. Interesting stuff.
John S.
That is true.
However, since Foley isn’t the only Republican to get caught up in some sort of scandal or inpropriety recently (Ney, Cunningham, Delay, etc.), it’s hardly a matter of just ONE bad Republican.
jaime
You’re missing the (talking) point here. These are just isolated incidents. Just a large grouping of isolated incidents within a Party in 10 year period of time having nothing whatsoever to do with each other or forming any culture of corruption.
After all Cynthia McKinney hit a cop and William Jefferson had cash in his freezer.
Richard Bottoms
Jesus what a great Friday.
Woodward’s book is the opening October surprise, and now Hastert knew of a Republican member of congress chasing underage pages. Time to go nuclear on his ass.
jaime
Something’s gotta be done. The Republican strategy is to call Democrats outright pro-terror Nazi sympathing traitors; The last gasp of a pathetic dying beast. The only way to kill this wounded animal is to go for the jugular.
chopper
by the time monday rolls around they’ll be arguing that he was a dem the whole time.
Richard 23
Already seen that one on the ABC blog.
jaime
The right wing has already convinced itself that Radical Muslim Terrorists are present day Nazis and that Liberals are modern day Communists AND Fascists.
They will twist themselves into a pretzel and lie to themselves daily to convince themselves that everything that has ever gone wrong the last 6 years is librul media/Clinton/commie/U.N./Soros/Michael Moore/ Democrat’s fault. When they wake up on the 8th of November having had America’s collective boot sunk in their asses they’ll think the entire universe has collapsed in on itself.
Richard 23
A couple of funny comments from ABC’s blog:
tBone
What kind of locker rooms are you hanging out in, anyway?
I agree we shouldn’t be too quick to crucify Foley, though. This whole situation could have been easily avoided if those pages had had the good sense to be older, unattractive, and less computer-savvy. Or women.
Bob In Pacifica
If you read Wilhelm Reich’s THE MASS PSYCHOLOGY OF FASCISM, you see how the repression of sexuality from a very early age is important in creating the sexual tension of fascist, repressive states. It’s not surprising that those who are at the cutting edge of repression are also repressed, infantilized pathetic souls.
Richard Bottoms
These fuckers are toast. Extra flamey.
srv
There’s a thought. GW didn’t get any at Yale. I wonder what he got at Andover.
CaseyL
Yes, more often than not.
And when you’re wrong, there are glorious, Roman-candle shooting, obscenity-laced, 300+ comment arguments to be had. I’ve learned some really nifty maladictions, hanging around ol’ Balloon-Juice.
And afterwards, you still like us and we still like you, and we go on and talk about other stuff.
It’s like a family, only better, because we don’t have to worry about getting one another birthday or holiday presents.
About Foley:
1. There seems to be an awful lot of sexual dysfunction in GOP circles. And by “sexual dysfunction,” I don’t mean just your garden variety infidelities (which are eternal and probably inevitable in politics, power=aphrodisiac and alla that) but really squeevy squicky stuff. And, well, there’s a lot of it, and it’s mostly closeted gay stuff by people who are officially homophobes.
I’m quite sure it’s no accident that the most, um, perverted Congress ever has presided over the most perverted politics ever.
2. The most charitable interpretation of Foley’s involvement in anti-kiddie porn legislation is that he was horrified by his own impulses, and used the anti-kiddie porn crusade as a kind of atonement. Or, maybe, he thought of it as ongoing DIY absolution: tracking down a child porn provider “canceled out” making sexual advances himself to young men. Human psychology is twisty under the best circumstances; when you’ve got genuine kinks, it gets even twistier.
CaseyL
Oh, before y’all flame me, I probably should’ve said “boys” rather than “young men.”
jg
This is timed perfectly with Gonzo saying we need to keep better track of people’s online habits because of the pedophiles.
Angus
Let me get this argument straight. If both he and the page had been in D.C., he wouldn’t be a pedophile, but because the page was in Florida he is one?
Unless evidence comes to light about him and teens younger than 16, he’s not a pedophile. Just a run-of-the mill creepy old pervert.
CaseyL
Angus, I agree with you (there is a diff between pedophilia and ephebephilia).
But, see, that’s one more delicious irony in the Foley story: the very laws he helped get passed don’t make such fine distinctions.
Thanks to “sexual predator” laws, there are 18 year old guys who had consenual sex with their 17 year old girlfriends who are now stuck with the “sexual predator” label for their whole lives.
John Amato
you’re always right about Buffy..
Richard Bottoms
True. Anyone who likes Buffy can’t be all bad.
Unless it’s Jonah Goldberg.
John S.
He is a pederast, pure and simple.
VidaLoca
You get the important stuff right. And when you make a mistake you admit it. You’re open minded without being empty-headed.
And furthermore, what Casey said.
But since we’re on the topic of being “right about anything” — does this mean you’re going to go back an re-examine that post about Juan Cole from a month or so ago? :)
DougJ
Looks like Boehner might be stabbing Hastert in the back here:
DougJ
Sorry, here’s the right link
VidaLoca
In a slightly more serious vein, it just occurred to me that if you ever get the idea to run for office I thing you should let us know — I suspect that more than a few of us would support you; at least to speak for myself I would. And I’m pretty much of a moonbat; you’d probably get a lot more support from more normal people.
Really — if the Republican party is ever going to mean anything again, some people with integrity are going to have to come forward to make it happen, to rebuild it into something better than what it has become. One way to do that is by holding office. I think you might be quite good at it.
Much potential have you, young padawan…
Krista
Because when you’re on, you’re thought-provoking and can write a fantastic rant. And when you’re off, we get to gang up on you mercilessly.
It’s win-win for us, either way.
sglover
Something’s gotta be done. The Republican strategy is to call Democrats outright pro-terror Nazi sympathing traitors; The last gasp of a pathetic dying beast. The only way to kill this wounded animal is to go for the jugular.
YES!
It is time for Republicans to reap what they have sown. Card-carrying Dems — and those like me on the verge of throwing their cards away — need to call, write, shout at the party leadership and get them to hammer on this story from now until election day. This is the kind of Republican scumbuggery that even your average yahoo can understand, and just in case I didn’t make it clear, this is Republican scumbuggery.
Call ’em pigfuckers, just to make ’em deny it!
VidaLoca
Why yes, it is, isn’t it. So Hastert and Boehner know about this “problem” and decide to do nothing about it because they don’t want to risk losing a seat. Somebody else knew about it too, though, and up it pops — five weeks before the election, taking everybody’s mind off the torture vote yesterday. Could be coincidence of course.
DougJ
I do think that, in all seriousness, this is kind of bad of Denny and Reynolds. Not as bad as legalizing torture, but bad. They should have at least taken him off the Missing and Exploited Children Caucus. This is very irresponsible. It really is.
CaseyL
VidaLoca, I kind of doubt the GOP is behind this latest batch of revelations. Since it involves the actual leadership and all.
As for taking attention away from the torture bill… I’m not really sure how much most voters really paid attention to the torture bill. Because I think at this point voters have already either decided to toss the GOP out, or decided there’s no limit to what the GOP can do and still get their vote.
Sex scandals, on the other hand, are something that the MSM and the public are always happy to focus on. It sure can’t help the GOP, put it that way.
VidaLoca
Casey,
Sorry if I was unclear. I was speculating that the Democrats might have had a hand in the leak. They’d stand to benefit from that directly. w.r.t the torture issue, it distracts from any gain the Republicans might have made from their position, as it distracts from the exposure of the Democrats failure to do much of anything to oppose it.
jg
I read you because whether I agree with you or not I believe you are making a point about an issue because you have a point to make about the issue. Not because you want us to become influenced by the point you’re making. When you make a post about how stupid the democrats were for not doing whatever it isn’t with the intent of conducting a ‘hate democrats’ chorus in the comments section. Its to point out how you thought it was a stupid thing to do. I don’t detect an ulterior motive is what I mean. The difference between your blog posts and most bloggers left and right is like the difference between happening across someone standing on a soapbox saying whats pissing him off and why versus attending a revival. There’s a whole different vibe here than in other places.
Pb
Woah, indeed. Not tonight? AP English? Anyhow, that would have been something if his mom had caught them, then or at any other time.
Proud Liberal
Congressman Foley on Clinton 1998:
no further comment necessary.
Paul L.
I love you tolerant liberal types.
Mark Foley, Democrats Target A Gay Man
Homophobes.
demimondian
Hey, Paul! Good to see you.
Found the evidence showing Qana was a fraud yet?
Proud Liberal
Paul? Democrats target Foley? Democrats didn’t know a thing about Foley’s indiscretion with the congressional pages. Apparently the leadership of the Republican party knew for a year or so. And they did nothing. And these were the same bozo’s that were so “morally outraged” and Clinton’s consentual affair with an adult. Kinda interesting ain’t it?
over it
First off…ewwwwwwwwww, yuck, gross, gag, nasty….those text messages were just plain wrong. And, as a young female, I don’t care if he was writing them to a boy or a girl. It is wrong and nasty either way.
Now, this:
made me laugh. Because it reminded me of a Colbert Report episode I was watching with my mom and dad. He was going on and on about ‘taint’….and my folks had no idea what it meant. I was red-faced and in near tears and they kept asking “what? what’s so funny?”. Thankfully, Colbert explained it at the end of the ‘skit’ so that I would not have to.
But, yeah, if others in Congress knew about it and did nothing…they need to be called out and made to atone as well. Not saying that they should resign…but…some major ‘mea culpa’ing’ is needed.
ick.
ThymeZone
Just a taste of the material that is coming your way in the next few days.
This Foley thing is going to be less than “a comma,” to borrow GWB’s phrase. By Columbus Day, maybe nobody will even remember Foley. But they are going to be talking about Woodward’s book, which plumbs the depths of the madness and stupidity inside the White House.
(Emphasis in the blockquote, mine).
over it
**Correction**
The ‘taint’ bit was not from The Colbert Report, it was from The Daily Show. Here it is http://tinyurl.com/fpach
Yeah, I know…pretty tasteless…but, imagine watching it with your parents. I would say imagine watching it with my parents…but…I guess that would be pretty difficult.
The Other Steve
Apparently in Florida they can’t replace his name on the ballot.
Still it’s stunning that the Republican party knew about his antics a year ago and choose to hide them rather than let this out in the open. That just seems utterly immoral, as well as strategically stupid.
The Other Steve
That taint is awesome
ThymeZone
Woodward.
Richard Bottoms
Bugger off. Old men hitting on boys or girls under 18 is just creepy. No the crime here is the coverup, especially of someone who headed the committee charged with protecting kids.
I don’t give a damn about Foley. That a single man felt he had to be a closet case is his problem, not mine. I like gay people, and that includes my sister. Bible thumping Republicans though are kindof in a box.
Hastert needs to resign.
Mr SeeMore
Smells of a coverup. I mean the emails were revealed last year. So, why has it taken this long to take the pervert down.
Seems to me we should be looking at others in congress that were hoping/trying to let this information be swept under the rug.
Lastly, there are no Rep/Dem perverts…there are just perverts… period.
Steve
I think it’s terrible that the Republicans forced this man to resign when he had done nothing wrong! Don’t you, Paul?
Seriously, it’s like there’s no hole too deep for you to crawl into. Yes, please, defend this guy from the unfair partisan attacks.
ThymeZone
Clearly, getting a blowjob from a 25-year-old female is much worse than getting one from a 16-year-old male.
For reasons that are classified, lest the terrorists win.
Mac Buckets
He could’ve be forgiven had he recorded “Thriller.”
(Mental note: Possible Jacko-esque nickname for Foley — “The King of GOP?”)
RSA
I suppose all you liberals would be happier if Foley had been molesting dogs.
Proud Liberal
I think you may be wrong about this Paul. While the Woodward book is going to offer some juciy morsels, every one of which I am going to enjoy, it is really not saying anything that we dont’ know (those of us that are not bush authoritarian cultists such as MacBuckets, Darrell and subPar).
But the Foley situation could get worse. Much worse for the Republicans. It seems that the Republican leadership knew about this for a year. They intentionally kept it from the Democrats. The let Foley continue on his merry way. This plays right into the Dems hands. Corrupt republicans protecting their own. Family values?
Lets remember, its congress thats running this November, not Bush. The more we have the “throw the bums out” sentiment the better for the Dems. I don’t know if congress’ approval rating can go any lower than where it already is, but this just may get them in single digits. Again, its not just Foley but the whole Republican leadership that is going to be tarnished.
And trust me, the public is much more attentive to a sex scandal than whether Rummy was returning Rice’s phone calls. Wish it were not so, but thems is the facts.
In either case, I think I’m just going to sit back and watch with a bag of popcorn to see how this one unfolds.
Tsulagi
Have to give them credit, at the end of a shitty week, the Republican “Do I make you a little horny?” Party delivered comedy gold as only they can. Thanks for the laughs; appreciate it.
Retardocon self image: Jack Bauer, but taller.
Reality: Austin Powers, but always incompetent plus an underage boy fetish.
Maybe Tube Stevens can hold some meetings with his lesser informed buds to let them know the secret that when the intertrucks make their deliveries, the packages don’t vanish.
ThymeZone
Who’s Paul? I’m Thyme, but you can call me Herb.
Proud Liberal
Can we finally put to rest the malarky about the Republicans being the party of family values?
Family Value Republicans
Proud Liberal
whatever Paul.
ThymeZone
I’m an Herb. A dried Herb, but an Herb nonetheless.
Call me Herb.
Proud Liberal
Herb? aren’t you the former ppGaz… and ppGaz wasn’t no herb….
ThymeZone
Yes, I’m an Herb. Call me Herb.
Skip
Let’s see how many of us we can get banned by John:
Jonah Goldberg on Foley:
“I have no worthwhile instapunditry. But, I think if the allegations are true this is just one more reason to add to the phonebook-sized list of reasons why grown men shouldn’t mess around with underage boys. It goes some considerable distance after, “it’s gross” and a good bit before “it takes time away from yard work.”
Barrasso
Proud Liberal,
that link is quite a list, but none of that would have happened if it weren’t for the Clenis destroying their values. I heard Laura Ingraham on her radio show say that when she visited the White House recently that it was all she could think about. She actually said that, as if it didn’t tell you more about her than she should let on.
Steve
What the…?
Skip
Jonah Goldberg: “I have no worthwhile instapunditry. But, I think if the allegations are true this is just one more reason to add to the phonebook-sized list of reasons why grown men shouldn’t mess around with underage boys. It goes some considerable distance after, “it’s gross” and a good bit before “it takes time away from yard work.”
Reaction: “What the…?”
Exactly.
sglover
Goldberg’s remark is what you get when you know you have to crank out some kind, any kind, of disinfo, but there’s simply nothing good to work with. It’s the Zen koan approach to shilling.
Or maybe fat Jonah’s got a thing for eccentric IM’s himself? Reading his remark, I could almost guess that he speaks from experience.
Purely speculation, of course. But if anybody else would like to speculate, here or on other blogs…. Well, I’d just like to see fat Jonah deny it, is all….
Skip
John is reaching for the button.