Wanker of the day award from Atrios!
As a wanker eevery day, Atrios surely is in a position to judge.
And Jane continues to call everyone in sight a racist. Wankers and racists- everyone of us! This is the angry left- the Jane Hamsher’s and Duncan Black’s of the party are the ones half you commenters cheer. Remember that the next time you have an aneurysm about Powerline, or Rush Limbaugh, or Ann Coulter. You don’t hate their tactics- you hate their popularity and success.
Punchy
Who else did she call a racist?
I think it’s blanket comments like these without any links or blockquotes that’s pissing her off. You really can’t just write something so incendiary and vitriolic without offering some proof, can you, journalistically-speaking?
ppGaz
Yawn.
MN Politics Guru
Last time I checked, Atrios and Jane weren’t calling for anybody’s assassination, weren’t painting broad swaths of the population as “traitors”, and weren’t mindlessly shilling for a president who is staging a slow-motion takeover of the legislative and judicial branches. I have never received a profanity-laced e-mail from either of them, something I can’t say for Powerling. Oh, and I don’t think that they are plagiarists.
The White Phosphorous story brought out the worst of both sides, ’tis true. I hope people at least learned something.
I am not jealous of those people. I am saddened when I realize that Ann Coulter is a person held in high regard by a good portion of this country.
Peach
I think it’s blanket comments like these without any links or blockquotes that’s pissing her off.
Who cares? She has made it her lifes work to piss people off…if she can’t take the heat, quit flinging shit.
DougJ
John, I’m sorry but this is really weak
You just can’t say “the Jane Hamshers of the left said X” and then claim “when I said the `Jane Hamshers’ said it, I didn’t mean that Jane Hamsher herself actually said it.”
I have no idea what happened with the White Phosphorous debate — I didn’t follow it — nor do I have an opinion on whether or not Ben Domenech is a racist.
But saying “Jane Hamshers of the left” when you’re refering to a group that doesn’t include Jane Hamsher — that’s just dumb.
Vladi G
Wait, John. Are you sure it’s Jane Hamsher and Duncan Black, or is it the Jane Hamshers and Duncan Blacks of the Left? I get them so confused. Because I like Jane and Duncan, but I’m not sure if I like THE Janes and Duncans. You should post a chart or something.
Barbar
Ben Domenech is a plagiarist moron who was pissed that Bush went to Coretta Scott King’s funeral (because she was a “communist”). If John Cole did not share Domenech’s RedState and “conservative” affiliations, I find it hard to believe he would bother to defend Domenech from accusations of racism.
Maybe you can argue that Domenech’s comment wasn’t racist, but you can also argue that it was. Moreover, it’s generally important to defend people from accusations of racism when there’s some important point they’re making, and the racism charge is drowning out that point. I don’t believe Domenech has made a valid point in his life, and furthermore I see no reason to think that John Cole disagrees with me.
So again, I see John’s passion about the racism charge as stemming from a desire to restore balance — there had to be some reason why he wound up on the same side as Ben Domenech and the remarkably stupid and dishonest hacks at RedState, right? Oh yeah, it was those reckless accusations of racism from the Left, he never liked that.
Meanwhile RedState melted down in a completely laughable way during the Domenech affair — in such a way that I can’t think that anyone left there has any credibility at all anymore. I guess Cole’s (lack of) comment speaks for itself.
Peach
Obviously she got called out for all her silly rhetoric, otherwise she wouldn’t pay attention to it. HAH, John Cole hit a nerve.
DougJ
By the way, John, when I said earlier that the “John Coles of the right joked about poisoning Supreme Court justices” I didn’t mean that you had actually joked about it, just that you were the sort of partisan who would joke about it. And when I said that “the Don Surbers of the right mindlessly defended the hiring of Ben Domenech”, what I said was technically true, even though Don Surber criticized the hiring, because in my mind Don is the sort of person who would, hypothetically, defend the hiring, even though, in reality, he was against it.
Vladi G
And what if one of the Jane Hamshers of the Left is in the sight of the actual Jane Hamsher? Would Jane Hamsher then be calling one of the Jane Hamshers of the Left (but not the actual Jane Hamsher) a racist? Or perhaps one of the Duncan Blacks who’s not actually Duncan Black is in the sight of Jane Hamsher who IS actually Jane Hamsher, but not actually one of the Jane Hamshers…I need a Tylenol.
DB
Actually John, Atrios never implied you won that award. You inferred it.
Why would you think you were a wanker? Your name is clearly on a separate line from the section name.
Small Business Owner
Alright John, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt; all you have to do is prove your earlier assertion that “Jane Hamshers of the left spend a month accusing the soldiers of being war criminals for using WP weapons.” or back up your accusation that “Hell, half the things in that despicable Hamsher post were not even WRITTEN BY BEN.”
Unless you were just spewing mindless drivel without actual, what’s that word again, oh yeah evidence. Then you’d actually be a wanker.
Bruce Moomaw
Regarding Ben Domenech — and repeating something I’ve said before here on another thread — not only did he call Coretta King “a Communist” (an accusation so ridiculous that he had to apologize for it the next day), but Brad Delong has caught him rhapsodizing last June about the “beauty” of Jefferson Davis’ political speeches. The first may just prove he’s a hysterical jackass. The second definitely proves that he has genuine racist tendencies.
Bruce Moomaw
Let me emphasize that Domenech was talking about Davis’ speeches DURING the Civil War — not before it.
Vladi G
It’s typical of the DougJs of the left to criticize the Don Surbers of the right for mindlessly defending the hiring of the Ben Domenechs of the right, even though the actual Don Surber didn’t mindlessly defend Domenech, and the actual DougJ didn’t criticize the actual Don Surber, but rather a group of hypothetical Don Surbers who may or may not have criticized the hiring of the actual Ben Domenech, but who defenitely would mindlessly defend the hiring of the actual Ben Domenech, even though they might not mindlessly defend the hiring of some group of hypothetical Ben Domenechs.
Otto Man
No offense, John, but I’m not sure how you think you’re above reproach on this one.
You attributed something Jane never said to her — or the apparent legion of Jane Hamsher clones roaming the countryside like unholy zombies — and you got called for it. Sounds wankerish to me.
ppGaz
Okay, help a brotha.
How many Jane Hamshers are there? And why?
Please be mindful of the fact that until last week, I never heard of any Jane Hamshers.
Are they like Stepford Wives, or a girls’ volleyball team?
And while we are at it, are there multiple John Coles, too?
Punchy
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bloghost get so slammed by his own readers. This would be funny if it wasn’t so strange. However, in this case, I think Dr. Cole keeps piling it on instead of knowing when to back away. Perhaps he thus deserves this pummeling.
srv
John throws out his cluster bombs and whines about moral equivalency. They’re all just the same. But alas, it will not endear John back to the right. He is a traitor to all.
srv
Vladi! Stop! My ribs are cracking!
DougJ
Are you sure that the Jane Hamsher called Ben Domenech a racist? It’s possible that she just spoke of the racism of the “Ben Domenechs of the right”, which would mean something different altogether.
VidaLoca
John,
I was disappointed to see Jane writing this because I think on the whole it’s unfair:
You’ve got a lot more in your tank than right-wing talking points, and you don’t invent facts out of whole cloth. You’re a pretty fair-minded guy (except, when discussing Cindy Sheehan :)). You’re also not a wanker.
That said, she’s just done to you what you did to her: you’re now a “John Cole of the right” that doesn’t fit in as part of the archtype she’s painting.
If nothing that several of us have said so far will convince you that you might have handled that whole situation a little better, my adding this won’t help. May I at least suggest this: ask yourself, if you had to do it all over again — would you have written what you wrote, and handled it the way you did, a second time?
Bob In Pacifica
You know, Mister Cole, when you do something wrong or say something wrong, you should look at yourself in the mirror and think about whether you are so big that you don’t have to admit your mistake.
Also, balance is not always left versus right, and that something from one side is equal to something from the other side.
I understand that much of your political philosophy has been exposed by the current hacks in power, and for that reason and because of your general disposition you feel the need to strike out.
JC
Just looked through the whole post that Atrios linked to, or the recent Hamsher post –
nowhere in that post does she use “racist”.
It’s a short post, everyone go read it.
And yet John Cole says
“Wanker of the day award from Atrios!
As a wanker eevery day, Atrios surely is in a position to judge.
And Jane continues to call everyone in sight a racist.”
Logically, you would think the “and” here, means that Jane posted something where she calls someone a racist.
But where is this?
Links please?
Or is John Cole only setting this up now to get 500 irate comments again?
DougJ
Kind of a cheap shot, if you ask me.
srv
Wait, maybe we need to look at this symptomatically. Perhaps John is suffering from Sympathetic Bush Denial Syndrome (SBDS) or the withdrawal from such.
Tobin Maker
John, John, John…
You lost the debate, as is obvious from the comments here.
But you’re too much of a whiny rightist to admit it.
Don’t worry, I called a whaaaaaambulance for you. There might be a delay , as they’re answering calls from all over Red State at the moment.
Francis
And Jane continues to call everyone in sight a racist
cite please.
John, everyonce in a while it’s better to admit you made a mistake.
a. there is credible evidence that Ben is a racist. certainly not the Klan type, but there’s a lot more to racism than that. and between the paean to Jefferson Davis and the Corretta King comment, that’s enough for a lot of people. you may disagree, but you should recognize that other people may legitimately hold a different position.
b. by the time you wrote that Jane Hamsher was not a member of the group “Jane Hamsher’s of the Left” regarding the WP story, you need to take a deep breath and rethink your position. Good writing is hard; I try to give every poster the benefit of the doubt. But that simply makes no sense.
c. The principal reason I found you to be a readable righty is your willingness not to stereotype people you disagree with. You usually recognize that there is no such thing as a monolithic Left and that people can honestly disagree about value judgments. But your dispute with Jane is rapidly running out of control. There is simply no evidence to support your claim that Jane is calling everyone a racist.
d. By doing so, you are supporting her right to be a member of the angry left. She should be angry at you; you have said things about her that didn’t make sense (the WP issue) and now you accuse her of throwing around blanket racism charges when she has not.
hope you reconsider.
cheers,
Vladi G
The Vladi Gs of the left hate their popularity and success, but the actualy Vladi G hates their tactics, as well as them personally. It’s typical of the John Cole of the right of center, however, to presume what the Vladi Gs of the left think, let alone the actual Vladi G.
The Vladi G of the left wonders what the DougJs of the left think. But he doesn’t care what the actual DougJ of the left thinks.
Brian in Oakland
Oh come on, Duncans a wanker eevery day, ccome oon.
Th-th-th-that’s all folks?
op99
John Cole, this is a great way to increase your readership. It’s entertaining to come over here and watch you keep shooting yourself in the foot. You’re bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Punchy
That’s what I was thinking. There’s a lot of potential blog traffic here as The Hamster will certainly respond and re-link, and as this travels to dKos or C&J and they link, there’s 100K+ more viewers, etc.
I’d hope this feud isn’t all about the pub, but seeing that he re-accused The Ham AGAIN without links/citations, I must wonder if he’s intentionally fanning these flames for bloghits…
Andrei
I’ll once again urge Tim to spend the small amount of money it takes to set up a blog and wash his hands of you, Cole. He should do so before he goes over the cliff with your impotent rants as of late which have done more to expose you as nothing more than the blogger equivalent host of the Morton Downey Jr. Show.
Maybe next time you’ll repsond to the stuff that Jane and Glenn said about you with… oh… I don’t know…
Facts? Links? Backup to your accusations?
Otherwise, all you are doing here with this post is proving them right. Which is no surprise of late.
CaseyL
As a steady reader and sometimes-commenter at FDL, I’ve posted a defense of John over there. And now I’ll do the same thing here.
Jane and Redd have done fantastic work on news and issue analysis, and on organizing action items for people to lobby their Senators and Congresspersons about. They’re good people. But they do have hot-buttons, and one of them is an absolute refusal to take slams quietly. They will come out fighting, from the git-go, because they’re fed up with reasonableness being taken for weakness.
I really don’t want to see two of my favorite blogs start a feud with each other. There’s no point – neither side will admit error; both sides will become more radicalized defending their position; both blogs will become less pleasant places as a result.
Plus, it’s boring. I like to fight over politics, not take sides in a schoolyard slanging match.
Please stop. Now. Both of you.
Vladi G
By the way, the Vladi G of the left stuck up for the John Cole of the right of center on that post by the Jane Hamsher of the left. But he also pointed out that the John Cole of the right of center is occasionally prone to the very type of cobaggery and ratfuckery that we see in this post. Which is better than the John Coles of the right, who always post nothing but cobaggery and ratfuckery. The Vladi G of the left would never stick up for them.
The Vladi Gs of the left might, though. They’re weird that way.
Barbar
The fact that our host makes a post and then gets slammed 25 times in a row in comments is… interesting. This blog might be completely unique in that way… a lot of other bloggers might have shut down comments, or banned people. Moreover, on other blogs where the commenters disagree with the blogger, the commenters are generally trolls who are infuriated with the blogger, or perhaps despise him. Not the case here. Just a lot of good snark.
Just an observation.
Marx Marvelous
Oh John, you were having such a wonderful run of not saying things that are completely moronic, but then you had to go fuck it up. “I hate all protestors.” “A terrorist insurgency isn’t an insurgency.” “‘The Jane Hamshers of the Left’ does not in fact include Jane Hamsher.” Sigh.
I do like the line from Jane’s post “even his own commenters had turned on him.” Don’t you have to start out on someone’s side in order to turn on them? That is one of the nice things about Balloon Juice, it’s not immediately obvious who’s on who’s side. (Cole’s knee-jerk trashing of the “angry left” notwithstanding)
JC
Doug J, VladiG – you guys are cracking me up with the “theoretical” person, as opposed to the real person.
You’ve made what would have been a boring post – Cole throwing out a wild and transparent post about Hamsher calling people racist without proof – into very enjoyable farce.
Vladi G
Maybe it’s like their own little Brian Jonestown Massacre vs. Dandy Warhols thing.
The Vladi G of the left loved that movie.
ppGaz
But, are there multiple Janes?
Are they like sisters? Can they bake a pineapple upside-down cake?
If we get this thread up to 500 posts, do we get a prize?
Okay, here goes: Ben Domenech is a pederast.
Thoughts?
Vladi G
Notice who she linked to in that one? That’s right. The Vladi G of the left.
John Cole
Umm. Red State Racists woulkdseem to imply everyone at Red State is a racist…
Also, there were dozens of the left-wing grenade chukers making the WP/Chemical weapon comment months ago- check the archives here- folks at Kos, folks at Think Porgress.
Additionally, since this is till not clear, when I said the Jane Hamsher’s of the left,m I was talking about people who do nothing but write outrageous things and, again, chuck grenades. I did not specifically state that Jane made the WP accusations, I have repeatedly reiterated that so that it was clear because many of your said it was not, and yet you still pretend that I was stating that Jane was one of the people makingthe claim. Piss off. I wash my hands of you.
Additionally, I thought the Atrios post was amusing. Longtime readers know that I think Atrios and the putrid filth that reside in his comments section are odious scumbags, so even though I am an outcast from the GOP, I look at being called a wanker by Duncan Black to be a badge of honor.
Andrei- Go read the comments to the post several posts down, go read Jane’s comments on her site. It was nothing but paean’s to Jane for ‘standing up’ to me, and outright cheering for their bullshit. If you don;t think half the commenters here do nothing but take cheap swipes at me when I go out of my way to be fair to the people I disagree with, to include trying to debate fairly (most ofthe time- I have things that set me off), yet am constantly barraged with potshots from the denizens of the peanut factory (like, say, YOU), then your reading isworse than I thought.
Cozumel
“And Jane continues to call everyone in sight a racist.”
So does that mean it depends on what “sight” is? Cuz she hasn’t called me a racist all day (that I know of).
Andrei
Being called the equivalent of Ann Coutler is more than a “slam” in the minds of so many on the left. It’s even more so for a woman I expect. No… in reality… being called the functional of Ann Coulter is a serious slime on the part of the name caller. (Since Cole reacted so poorly when I did a similar name sort of calling exercise to one of his blog commentators so long ago, one would have thought Cole would have known this.)
Cole took a swing and is getting the fight he asked for, or at least provoked. Let him defend himself. He’s supposedly has a pair, although so far in this fight he’s proving he doesn’t know how to fight when tossed into a real brawl.
DougJ
Were any of them named Jane Hamsher? If not, then you owe her an apology for saying what you said about the “Jane Hamshers of the left”.
John — a lot of us here don’t believe that this is typical of you, or that it shows that you’ve gone off the deep end, or that Tim F should “wash his hands of you” or anything like that. But you just can’t say “the Jame Hamshers of the left” said something that Jane didn’t say and not apologize to her.
Punchy
Please, PLEASE no more Bill O’Reilly euphenisms. “Bomb throwing” here, “granade chukers (sic)” there. Before long we’ll be hearing about the War on Easter….
By the way, there’s LOTS of people on the comments section of FDL that are sticking up for you, claiming you’re a good, honest person. But nearly everyone is just flummoxed over this spat, and the ridiculousness of it all.
JC
Hmmm,
Again John, LINKS LINKS LINKS!
There’s this newfangled thing called the internet, and hyperlinking, that’s pretty cool.
At any rate, the “and continues” in your racist statement above, usually means “now”. I’ll give you the dictionary definition of “continues” if necessry.
here’s what she “continues” to post:
I had a dustup with John Cole over on his site the other day. Normally I don’t take blog spats onto FDL (it’s a waste of time) but weirdly Glenn Greenwald’s mom saw it, emailed Glenn and Glenn emailed me laughing. Cole had written a smear job grounded on several outright fabrications, notably that the “Jane Hamshers of the left” routinely called soldiers war criminals for using white phosphorous weapons, and that I had attributed comments to Ben Domenech that he never made.
I’ve never written about white phosphorous, nor have I ever called soldiers war criminals. Cole’s defense? “The Jane Hamsher’s of the left” does not include me. No, I’m not kidding. I hounded him quite relentlessly for proof and eventually he found some equally contorted logic to try and squirm out from underneath the Domenech accusation (which was just as patently untrue), but not before even his own commenters had turned on him. He eventually scurried away to sulk in Dick Cheney’s bunker.
I probably would never have mentioned it again but Glenn wrote me the following email and I think he makes a valid point:
I do think that what he did illustrates an extremely important problem that you – given your past history leading the whole Jim Brady/Debbie war – are in the best position to comment on. It has become conventional wisdom that the blogosphere – and specifically the “Left blogosphere” – is filled with irresponsible, inaccurate, crazed commentary. The reality is – as the John Cole post shows, and as the whole Jim Brady/Debbie thing did, too – it is usually those who are making that accusation who traffic in inaccuracies and then cover them up when called on them. You basically did to John Cole what you did to Jim Brady – pursued with a shocking, relentless (and appropriate) tenacity their inaccurate comments to the point where – because they couldn’t admit error – they decided to resent and hate you instead and, by extension, the whole “Left blogosphere.” So much of the hatred and demonization of the blogosphere stems from people who hate being held accountable for their statements and actions.
That’s the common theme I see in the John Cole, Wash Post, episodes, as well as even people like Joe Klein and the New Republic who hate the blogosphere because it holds them accountable, so they attack it with inaccuracies and irresponsible charges – in sum, THEY do what they accuse us of doing. I wrote about that once a while ago here – when attacking the disgustingly snotty anti-blog mentality at The New Republic, but it’s an amazingly important issue to protect the value of the blogosphere and you argue that as well as anyone. I can see using the John Cole inaccuracies to talk about this – he is representative of all the people who attack us with inaccurate and crazed charges. I thought one of the most significant developments of the whole Ben Domenech debacle was that the “left Blogosphere” – whom Jim Brady now HATES – did his job for him, and he was forced with great humility to genuflect to its value in his “Ben resigned” statement. You know that killed him, but we need more of that (and I think that Brady’s acknowledgment should be trumpeted) – people who previously depicted the blogosphere as a crazed fever swamp having to admit that we work as substantively and responsibly – often much more so – than the most established media outlets.
Ben Domenech is notable because he is the shining example of the moral and intellectual fiber of the right at present, not the exception. Cole pissed me off because he’s got nothing in the tank except a bunch of right-wing talking points — that liberals hate America, hate the military — and he doesn’t care if he has to invent facts out of whole cloth to make them fit the contours of his inchoate rage.
George Bush cannot admit he made a mistake with Iraq, and the commitment to arrogance of the authoritarian cultists is top down. Ben Domenech never would have admitted his error but for the fact that Red State was headed into the shitter — their own readers were turning on them — and the friends he lied to, the ones he stabbed in the back even as they defended him, had no choice to save their site but to give him the bum’s rush. Even then, wingnut bloggers continue to call Michelle Malkin a “traitor” and defend him blindly as a holy, persecuted martyr.
If this incident proves nothing else, it’s that we members of the “fever swamp” are vindicated in all our dealings with the Washington Post. And the right-wing blogosphere is a wasteland.
Nowhere is “racist” used.
CaseyL
John, come on. “The Jane Hamshers of the Left does not include Jane Hamsher” is a silly, torturous, Klein Bottle of a statement that defies simple logic. When most of your commenters, including ones who like you a lot, “misinterpret” what you say, I think the problem is with the statement, not the readers.
I think your anger got away with you, you said something that didn’t stand up to any normal content analysis, and now you’re attacking people who read the plain meaning of the words, rather than your torturous exculpation of them.
Be the Big Guy, John. Let it go.
Vladi G
Maybe she was just referring to racists who live in red states. It wasn’t clear from her post.
And John, you can’t wash your hands of the Vladi G of the left. Sure, you may get rid of most of the Vladi Gs, and with a good soap, you might even get rid of a lot of the DougJs, but the actual Vladi G, well, he don’t wash off, brother.
Bruce Moomaw
A bit more on Ben Domenech from Brad Delong’s latest entry on the subject tonight:
“…[T]he fact that how Mr. Domenech carries himself reminds Glenn Reynolds that he just can’t call himself a conservative if Domenech is one, and that more than three years ago Tom Maguire strongly suspected Mr. Domenech of making stuff up.” (Delong includes links to both comments, which I won’t include here because every time I do I seem to blow up John’s entire site.)
While this isn’t quite as deadly, one may also note Joel Achenbach’s comment about him in his own Wash. Post column: “Domenech is supposedly 24, but I’m betting right here and now that he’s a junior in high school. All this is under investigation. His blog, Red America, didn’t contain anything that would make someone think he was the second coming of William F. Buckley. Indeed, this whole affair seems like a spoof, a prank, to make all the real, authentic, rock-ribbed, hard-headed if perhaps slightly lizard-hearted conservatives look bad. [But of course they say that about the entire last 5 years of American government.]”
I remain mystified by John’s soft spot for this twerp.
DougJ
Not sure I agree with that, but I think it is fair to say that at least some of the Ben Domenechs of the right are pederasts. I mean, go look at the comments on Red State and Free Republic. You can’t tell me that none of the people there is a pederast. It’s statistically impossible, given their sheer number.
KC
I’m staying away from this one.
JC
Now, I WILL grant you that the “Jane Hamshers of the left” may have said “racists” recently, but the actual Jane Hamsher at FiredogLake hasn’t, unless I’m missing something (which is of course very possible.)
Mark Wilson
Why are blog controversies so intensely bitter? Because the stakes are so small?
Britt Daniel
Small Stakes Give You Blues
But You Don’t Feel Taken Don’t Think You’ve Been Used
Cause It’s Alright Friday Night To Sunday
It Feels Alright Keeps Your Mind On The Page
Oh Yeah Small Stakes Ensure You The Minimum Blues
But You Don’t Feel Taken And You Don’t Feel Abused
Small Stakes Tell You That There’s Nothing Can Do
Can’t Think Big, Can’t Think Past One Or Two And Awlright!
Me And My Friends Sell Ourselves
Short But Feel Very Well
We Feel Fine Aw We Feel Fine
Small Time Danger In Your Midsize Car
I Don’t Dig The Stripes But I’ll Go For Har Mar
The Big Innovation On The Minimum Wage
Is Lines Up Your Nose But Your Life On The Page So C’mon
Tell Me I’m Wrong
Small Stakes Will Kill Time
When You’re Stuck In Back Of The Line
It Feels Alright Friday Night To Sunday
Aw It Feels Alright Keeps Your Mind On The Page
And Small Stakes Bring You Where You’re Caught In A Rut
You Feel So Uptight You Just Want To Throw It All Up
And Small Stakes Leave You With The Minimum Blues
Can’t Think Big, Can’t Think Past One Or Two So C’mon
Peach
Are you sure that the Jane Hamsher called Ben Domenech a racist?
She said:
Bigot bigot bigot bigot bigot. The Post.blog is hosting a bigot. It doesn’t matter how many times Ben wants to take away with the left hand what he gives with the right, we know what he is and what he means. And as the hatred of brown people becomes the new gay, there is going to be a lot more of this disingenuous claptrap passed off by the folks at Red State Racists as someone else’s ideas, or just the views of their readers they are under some obligation to provide a home for.
Isn’t a brown people bigot a racist?
Red State Racist. Do you need glasses?
As of this morning, the fine folks over at Red State Racists were trying to put up a smoke screen around Box Turltle Ben
If she’s such a bad ass, how come she can’t take it?
Andrei
I did.
“Thier bullshit?” As opposed to you calling Jane the functional equivlanet of Ann Coulter? Good lord, wakke up already. And if you want a love fest over here, why don’t you start acting like someone who deserves one with better writing and more insightful posts about world events?
You are so full it sometimes it’s quite laughable. Didn’t they teach you in the miltary anything about accountability? You know… it’s never the fault of the men in your charge but of you as their leader? There are PLENTY of commentators on your site that would give you MORE than the credit you deserve if you:
A) Started responding in equal force against those on the right in your blog who say things as ridiculous as those of us on the left.
B) You actually RESPONDED to your blog commentators a little more often with meaningful comments in repsonse to theirs instead of pouncing only on the things that “set you off.”
C) You stop doing things like telling Jesse Jackson to go fuck himself and equating people like Jane Hamsher to Ann Coulter. Like I said above, that just makes you the blogosphere equivalent of being Morton Downey Jr. Your comment section proves it’s become a raging talk show circus in that grand tradition so far.
Don’t beleive me? Try it. You’ll be surprised some time. I guarantee it. But feel free to wallow in the self-fullfilling cycle of “see, they hate me” as much as you want. You can start by apologizing to Jane for the mud slinging. But if you don’t apologize because you actually *DO* beleive she is the left’s Ann Coulter, then you’ll just get into a big ass fight, one in which you are looking like the kind of fool you claim so many politicians are for having “tin ears.”
WyldPirate
Well, John, I see your asshole replacement surgery went well after Hamsher removed it for you the other day for all of your specious, ill-reasoned backpeddling. You must have had a real fine proctologist.
Your’s is one of the few right leaning blogs I visited because it is one of the few that has, in the past, exhibited a shred of intellectual integrity. You blew that all to hell with your chickenshit weasling by trying to claim you weren’t talking about Hamsher with your wise-assed claim that you weren’t when you wrote about the “Jane Hamshers of the left”.
That stunk bad–so bad that I’m embarrassed that you’re a member of the same group as me, a professor at a university. I haven’t seen such chickenshit intellectual dishonesty in a long time. It was so bad, it was damn near child-like, or Domenech like.
You were pwn3ed by Hamsher and you’re too goddamned arrogant to recognize it.
ppGaz
I don’t really think Ben Domenech is a pederast.
Just wanted to make that clear. I have never actually read any piece written by the lad. Never heard of him until WaPo hired him. Oh, I did read part of his “mea culpa” when he resigned three days later, and I think Jennifer over at Scrutator absolutely nailed the review:
It was a youa culpa and a theya culpa and an “anything but mea culpa” full of vainglorious horseshit. So said Jennifer, I think, and it was one of the most spot-on things she has ever written. She’s a lefty who makes me look like Norman Vincent Peale, but in this case, she was spot friggin on. If that last piece by Ben was any indication, he just might be the Biggest Weenie On Earth.
But being a weenie does not make him a pederast. Ken Starr, yes, but Ben …no, I don’t have the evidence.
John Cole
JC- For christ sake.
Do a CTRL F and count how many times she counts people racists.
The jane hamshers of the left was meant to mean the grenade chucking bombastic left- it did not mean I specifically meant she made the WP claim. I have explained this fifty fucking times, edited the comment to clarify, yet you continue to harangue me.
Do you not understand what I meant still, or are you just trying to get under my skin? I meant what I meant initially, peopole did not understand it, I clarified, and you all are preteending i have taken no steps to clarify. What the hell do you want?
manys
If “The Jane Hamshers of the Left” do not include Jane Hamsher when talking about WP, then why not rename it to “Most Popular of Those Who Talk About WP of the Left”. Or hey, you could actually find out who that person is and substitute their name in there, even though it probably wouldn’t garner you as many pageviews.
ppGaz
Oh, and Andrei has it nailed, too.
Treat us with respect, and see what happens.
Aw fuck it, that will never happen.
RedDan
“Everyone in sight”?
No, a quick search Google reveals that there are approximately 12 posts at FDL that even have the word racist in them.
1 refers to Michelle Malkin. Given that Malkin wrote a book explicitly justifying the wholesale internment of an entire community based on their ethnicity, it is reasonable to argue that she is a racist.
Another refers to the recent immigration laws proposed by the GOP, and is a general reference.
Several of the others refer to Ben Domenech in particular, and there are three cases where the RedState community as a whole is called out.
Given the links cited in those posts, it seems to me that, while certainly not proven that everyone at RedState is a racist, the case can be made that a large number of front-pagers and commenters over at RedState do harbor beliefs that open them to accusations of racism.
At the very least, the ability to communicate those beliefs in a way that avoids accusations of racism is particularly lacking.
As for me:
1. asserting that a significant portion of the US judiciary is worse than the KKK,
2. writing glowing reviews of Jefferson Davis’ speeches and etc,
3. approvingly linking to a “thought piece” in the vein of Bill Bennet (actually written by Neuhaus) in which the central assertion is a direct linkage between black people and crime (a racist assertion that is not borne out by the available DOJ, FBI, or other data)…which is then used to launch some sort of pseudo-Swiftian commentary about abortion based on the bad research done by Leavitt of Freakonomics fame,
4. not to mention resurrecting the old “Communist” charge against African-American Civil Rights leaders – one that was specifically used by the KKK and the Birchers back in the day (integration was a Communist plot to promote miscegenation, you see…)…
And finally, a host of other easily available posts found on RedState that are overtly racist, in character…
well, it seems to me that her use of the term is highly specific to a very small group of people, and that her assertion is at least backed up by a significant amount of linkage and direct quotes….
But then again, I hardly expect that anything I say will be heard or responded to in any case, considering the amount of energy I expend calling the same people (RedState and etc) the same thing (racists, sycophants, and etc…)…
Congrats on your award!
John Cole
Like I said.
DougJ
Jane did call Ben a racist, she doesn’t deny it. I’m not sure I agree with her, but then again I’m not that into calling people racists. But I think that if you call Corretta Scott King a communist, you’re treading on somewhat thin ice. And if you do “thought experiments” about aborting all black babies, you’re on thin ice. I wouldn’t call Bennett or Domenech a racist, but I can see how someone else might.
Pooh
A limited defense of John Cole.
Personally, i can’t imagine why being called Wanker of the Day by a guest-star of the West Wing would make anyone defensive.
EL
John, I respect you, and the fact that you try (as much as most of us can) to be objective. I agree Atrios is shrill; for that reason I read him only occasionally. In this case though, you picked a fight, and I assumed from the post Jane Hamsher had posted on WP. The subsequent explanation seemed awfully tortured and made no sense to me.
However, I’d also like to say that it’s a testament to you and the site that the snark is mostly friendly, and we’d rather see you find a way out of this than continue to suffer.
I’d rather see a post discussing the events in Iraq today, or the NYT article on the Blair/Bush conversations in 2003.
The Left
I’m sorry, I have no stable of Jane Hamshers. Not even one. WEAK!
ppGaz
Remember when you used to post with glee about how you just wrote stuff to piss us off and watch us blow up?
Well, payback’s a bitch, ain’t it?
ImJohnGalt
Y’know, I have a lot of respect for the work Glenn is doing on the NSA case, but this just isn’t fair. I think using John in any way a signature example of the inaccuracies spouted by the right shows a significant misunderstanding of this site and John’s posting history.
But that’s my two cents, as a shrill lefty.
That said, hope some of you FDL’ers will come for the rant, and stay for the comments. I know that Darrell, scs, Stormy and Mac Buckets will appreciate the new cannon fodder.
Peach
I just think it’s frickin hilarious she and all her minions have their panties in a wad because she got dinged for her rhetoric.
JC
I gotta say – this HAS TO become, like some type of internet shorthand – maybe the “Cole tactic” of argument?
Help me out here with a good name for this “I am talking about all the Jane Hamsher’s of the left, but not Jane Hamsher”?
Cozumel
“The jane hamshers of the left was meant to mean the grenade chucking bombastic left- it did not mean I specifically meant she made the WP claim.”
Oh, puuuulese. Of course when I say the “John Cole’s of the right”, I don’t mean John specifically. I mean the CIA leaking, WMD faking, Abramoff taking, wingnuts….
Psst, John. A word of advise, when you’re in a hole, put down the shovel ; )
KC
Mark Wilson, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.
That said, I do have to say that I felt people were going a little overboard about Ben Domenech last week. I understood some of the criticism directed at the Post, even some of the criticism directed at Ben; however, I began to get the impression that people were piling on unnecessarily. Seriously, if he wasn’t guilty of plagarizing some material, we’d be onto something new by now. He’d just be another conservative voice in the media and an angry portion of the blogosphere would have moved onto a different topic by now.
DougJ
An admission that it was stupid of you to say “the Jame Hamshers of the left” said something that Jane Hamsher herself did not say.
John Cole
I didn’t think you were all this stupid naturally. If you are just being intentionally obtuse, I wash my damned hands of the lot of you.
Peach
I gotta say – this HAS TO become, like some type of internet shorthand – maybe the “Cole tactic” of argument?
At least he allows you to comment on his site, which big brave Jane can’t muster up the courage to do. She’s afraid to let another point of view on comments, with her finger on the delete then ban button.
DougJ
And one more thing, John: how can you possibly say that calling Ben Domenech a racist is comparable to joking about killing Supreme Court justices?
WyldPirate
And like I said, John, you were owned.
You were also shown to be a despicable lying sack of shit and so full of yourself that you are blind to what your regulars are even pointing out to you.
In addition to being arrogant, you are, as Atrios said, a wanker. IF you keep it up, I might have to add fuckwit and become a regular vistor just for the pleasure of ripping apart your ill-reasoned posts.
Andrei
Is it really so fucking hard to say:
“I made a bad analogy. I apologize for that. Poor choice of words on my part. Now… what I’m really referring to is this fringe element on the left that make nasty accusations of etc etc etc… [insert whatever you want here.]”
All this sort of ruckus because you won’t act like a man and simply admit you chose a poor set of words? Christ… are you that bored? Are you really lacking in the balls to admit such a mistake?
Oh that’s right… you’re never wrong. Of course. I forgot that part.
JC
John,
That’s back on THURSDAY – and I’m pretty sure you know this. So why the “and she continues”?
And actually, if were you accurate, you would say “she is calling Ben a bigot, which linguistically isn’t the same as racist.
Now, “Red State Racist” is used on Thursday, but not in conjunction with Ben – Ben is called a bigot.
So then two things happen –
a. You use “and continues”, when she hasn’t continued, since the weekend blog blowup.
b. You equate “red state racist” and say that this means she is calling Ben a racist – when again, she uses bigot.
At any rate, these things are defensible, but it would be much clearer if you didn’t state them as FACT, but as your interpretation – “Hamsher saying X in my opinion means she is saying Y –
and then defend that.
Otherwise, you open yourself to obvious refutations.
KC
Doesn’t anyone think that people were going overboard last week with the Ben Domenech thing? It just seemed a little crazy to me.
Pooh
Doug, back off. If Atrios is entitled to call John a wanker, John is entitled to fire back once, and then let’s be done with it.
I should start a “blogwar coverage” blog and call it “Handbagsattenpaces.com”
Andrei
Do it. I dare you to ban all of us. I dare you to shut down the comments. I dare you to stop blogging for three months. Prove it.
ppGaz
See, that’s what we come here for. The abuse. Seriously.
But you see, everyone here likes you. You could lighten up once in a while. There’s a reason why I have never read anything by Jane Hamsher, but hang here every day.
If you get my drift.
Pooh
Yeah, a bit. Though I think it had a lot more to do with the Washington Post then with Domenech per se. There is what some might call ‘a history’ there.
John Cole
I don;t think ti was a stupid thing to say. I stil think that in the context of the post and the comment, saying the “Jane Hamsher’s of the left” to describe a type of bomb-chucking individual makes sense. If someone were to say the “Rush Limbaugh’s on the right,” by your definition, bombastic loudmouths could not be included UNLESS they said something Rush Limbaugh has said. That is absurd- were you to say that, everyone would know what you said.
When it was clear to me that some of you were confused, I edited the comment to make it clear. I never thought nor meant to imply Jane made the WP remarks, I have stated that, and that is all you are getting from me. If that isn’t good enough, you are just going to have to go to bed unhappy. As far as I am concerned, I am not guilty of claiming that Jane Hamsher saiud anything about the WP remark, I have continuously and repeatedly stated as much, and I have no reason to apologize for making said remark.
iI I had to apologize for anything, it would be for being unclear, and right now you have pissed me off so much I would rather shower in prison than cede an inch to your pricks.
And that is my final word on this matter. Have fun with the pile-on with the sewer trout from Eschaton. I am glad all my defending you lefties from the shitheads on the right has earned me some respect and a fair shake with you and the rest of the people here who are, as PPGAZ has noted, just being assholes.
Peach
Man you people will go to such twisted lengths to defend this. Linguistically? Look it up. Please. How come Jane doesn’t have the balls to stick by her rhetoric?
haydesigner
Well apparently
but
is not worthy of any implications.
Do you see the disconnect here?
Now, I’m just an admittedly sporadic reader here over the last 6-8 months, so my opinion will not hold much weight. But I have been generally intrigued by John and Tim’s observations and discourses, and enjoy the (usually) rationale discussions, which is usually why I bop in here once or twice a month.
However, after reading all the blinkin’ comments and snide remarks and holier-than-thous, I have lost some respect for Mr. Cole. Yes, Jane came across as a hot-tempered bitch (most definitely NOT the way to start any civil or respectable discussion, let alone hope for John to correct things), but while you may not have meant to smear her, you did slight her, however unintentional it may or may not have been. You sullied her name for no discernable reason, for no direct action of her own. You may not be completely wrong, but you have never been right in this case either.
And you most definitely have sunk to a lower level in this discourse. I have come to expect better of a man of your cognition.
I hope you and Jane could somehow meet in the middle ground, apologize for misunderstandings on both sides, and move on.
srv
How about this? You make a mea culpa blaming everyone else, and we’ll all fellate you like RedState does to their own?
Krista
(pssst…they want you to admit that it was rather silly of you to write something putting down “the Jane Hamshers of the left”, and then act all surprised and peeved that Jane Hamsher herself took offense….)
Mrs. Taylor
Mr. Cole,
Until today I had not heard of you and know nothing of your background. It strikes me, though, that if one has to say, “I have explained this fifty f-en times,” then most likely your use of the English language was obtuse. A refresher course may be in order.
Given that your words were misunderstood (by a great many people, apparently) to mean that you accused Jane Hamsher of making a heinous claim, I believe you owe her a simple apology. You could say something like, “Ms. Hamsher, I am sorry to have inferred, through my misuse of the English language, that you accused the American military of using white phosporus as a weapon.” I believe Ms. Hamsher would accept your apology and everyone could move on. You have my permission to cut and paste the above apology into your own if you’d like.
Sincerely,
Mrs. Taylor
james richardson
Let us not forget a recent rant by FDL that consisted of stereotyping pajamas media negatively, which if I recall, pissed JC off to no end.
Every blogger goes easy sometimes. None are thorough 100% of the time (well, Josh Marshall gets close). FDL is hardly perfect either. I think JC has been fair to FDL when he agrees with them and critical when he does not. That is intellectual honesty, is it not?
Everything doesn’t have to be a pissing contest.
srv
Heh, you almost sound like JeffG there.
John Cole
Fine Andrei, you are banned. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.
Oh, wait. You can’t reply. Now you can go tell everyone I ban everyone who disagrees with me. That would be about as accurate a representation of me and this website as the shit I have read about myself here and elsewhere the past few days.
And BTW- if you all think you are converting anyone with this, you are wrong. All you are teaching everyone to the right of me is that if you lie down with dogs, you get fleas. People on the right of me are laughing at this and telling me I get what I deserved,
And will you assholes who have never posted here before quit trying to post my work email address?
RedDan
“Going overboard”???
Domenech’s very first contributions to the WaPo blog were spiteful, inaccurate, dishonest slams of entire communities (Kos, MyDD, Eschaton, and etc), slams of liberals, and assertions of moral, popular, and political superiority couched in no uncertain terms.
Preliminary and cursory reading of posts at bendomenech.com revealed a tendency toward vicious, hateful, slanderous comments…further research into Ben’s work as a RedState founder revealed his pseudonym, Augustine, and led to close reading of his work as Augustine – work that many found objectionable, and with good reason.
Further work revealed that he is a serial plagiarist of near-epic proportions.
Now, regardless of Ben’s political outlook, he is a representative of the general blogging community, and he was one of the first bloggers hired to work, as a blogger, for a major national/international media outfit.
It behooves us as a community to police our own. We did.
And should I be hired by the NYTimes to blog about politics on their website, I would expect (and most definitely receive) the same treatment, and I would deserve it, in spades.
Pooh
A question to all BJ commenters, why do you come here and participate? Think on that honestly, and take it into account before the next time you post. This weekend represented perhaps the nadir of these comments, I’d hate to see them go lower at one of two spots on the web I know of where people from across the Great Divide can come together.
ppGaz
Ewww.
Really, ewwww.
Andrew
The Andrews of this post concur on finding Haloscan-style comments basically unreadable.
ImJohnGalt
What, you’d rather be all sweaty and smelly in your cell?
Krista
(Another pssstt…if someone were to say the “Rush Limbaugh’s on the right” are a bunch of racist assholes, and Rush himself showed up to defend his honour, only to receive the excuse, “Well, I didn’t mean you specifically…just people like you” I think Rush would have every right to be a bit cheesed.)
Giordano
John, don’t bother to get upset by such people. I am a moderate Democrat and I have been reading your blog for some time now. Of all the conservative leaning bloggers on the internet, I find you to be one of the most open and rational. I don’t ever recall you calling all liberals anti-military or anti-patriotic.
Angry liberals tend to lump all conservatives into one camp and can’t see the differences between one conservative blogger and another. Your views tend to be much more moderate than the views that can be commonly found on Redstate.com. You have attacked the Republican Party more than the Democrats for some time now. Your recent post about how you will not be able to vote for any Republican in the upcoming election must have been missed by certain people. The fact that these liberal absolutists can’t tell the difference between you and someone like Ann Coulter is their problem, not yours.
I know that you deplore the extremism of the Religious Right and the hypocrisy and incompetence of the Republican Party in recent years. I think you would love to vote for a moderate Democrat for President if you ever got the chance. If there was ever a contest between Warner and Santorum, I know that you wouldn’t hesitate for a second to vote for Warner. On the other hand, someone like Coulter, Limbaugh and Hannity would actively support Santorum.
I am fed up with the extremism of both the Angry Left and the Radical Right. You are not a member of either. Because I’m not either, I can tell the difference between you and people like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ann Coulter, and the rest of their ilk. The extremists on the other side can’t.
DougJ
What the hell is wrong with you? If I said that that the “Rush Limbaughs of the right said X” and Rush himself didn’t say it, and Rush came onto my blog and called me out for falseley attributing it to him, then I would apologize to him and admit I was wrong.
Because that’s what honest people do when they make they demonstrably false accusations: they apologize. I used to describe you as an honest person. I was wrong and I apologize to everyone I said it to.
ppGaz
Well, one, I like John. That was what brought me here.
Two, freedom of speech never had it so good as it does here. That got me to stay.
Three, I like the company.
That’s about it.
Krista
Please tell me that you meant to say “cede an inch to you pricks.”
Otherwise, you’re fucked either way, aren’t you?
DougJ
You’re wrong. He’d dig up some silly thing Warner said once and use that as a pretext to vote for Santorum. It would become “sure, Santorum is an idiotic right-wing theocrat, but Warner was photographed once with Cindy Sheehan, so I couldn’t vote for him.”
RedDan
Pooh,
I came because this sparked my interest.
What is it about particular interactions that generates so much vitriol over and above other interactions that, in many cases, are more deeply important than stuff like this?
I also came over here because
1) I have gone after John in the past,
2) I used some pretty over-the-top rhetoric,
3) My criticism stands, but there are moments when I wish that I could retract some of the nastier things I said, or at least the way I said them,
4) I have respected many of the stands John has taken,
5) It always puzzles me when someone who seems so reasonable and spot-on on issue X is so crazed on issue Y (and I am sure the same holds of others’ opinions of me)…
and finally, there is a nugget of information about people in general in this whole mess somewhere – something about the difference between what we think intellectually and who we are emotionally….
Pooh
Damnit, Krista, I’m trying to do something productive here and you make me spit Coke Zerotm all over my la-z-boy.
John Cole
Heh.
DougJ- Enough with the bad faith bullshit. I would vote for Stalin if he were running against Santorum. I think you forget there are people in my party who I despise more than even the people at Eschaton.
ImJohnGalt
On the plus side, I did coin the word cheetocracy.
I dunno, I saw both good and bad this weekend (although to be sure, I thought the kegger post was one of Tim’s weaker Beer Blogging posts, but only because I look forward to them so much). To me there’s both good and bad in every thread (sound like an “Ebony and Ivory” lyric), and that if you can follow them properly, there are always some pretty damned interesting perspectives to be gleaned under each front-page post here at the ol’ Juice.
I’m also always entertained by where they start and where (and upon what subject) a thread ends. I cut John a lot of slack because his comments are so full of Democrats/liberals, and consider this “Jane Hamshers of the left thing” a topic upon which he has dug in, much as any Sheehan post. So, given his general reasonableness on discussing other topics, I ignore these particular peccadillos and move on. If you’re unfamiliar with his work, as Jane (and now apparently, Glenn) is, I can see why you would be less congenial.
Andrew
Can’t we all agree that:
1) Ben really is a bit racist, along with all of his other flaws.
2) John Cole is not a wanker, but is indeed acting wankerish about this.
3) The left-bots who are whooping it up on Atrios and FDL are just dumb — Haha, the Juan Cole joke wasn’t funny the first fifty times.
4) Jane is indeed a verbal bomb-thrower, but did not necessarily deserve to be linked WP, and she is also acting a bit wankerish.
5) Jeff Goldstein is still an untalented dog-anus-riming dick.
JC
Eh, I liked this thread better when DougJ and VladiG were cracking me up…
at any rate, John, I still say you are being stubborn with this – but hey, that’s okay.
It IS pretty funny though – in a thread about Jane Hamsher you go into a generalization about “the Jane Hamsher’s that are not Jane Hamsher”.
and I still say, you were unclear, although I finally understand your points – but I had to WORK at it.
Not very clear writing for an english professor, maybe?
Ancient Purple
And here is the most truthful thing said on Balloon-Juice today.
Barbar
John Cole, some of the comments in this thread are unreasonable and assholish, but a lot of them are reasonable and well-intentioned.
Anyway, if I may engage in more psychoanalysis it looks like you wanted to pick a fight with the “Left” and now you are just looking for reasons to justify it. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion. I tend to think that the fact that you are ignoring a lot of the issues in play (Domenech’s actual writings, the Red State defense) indicates that you realize the truth about these things, and so you don’t want to fight those fights, but I can’t really be sure.
Andrei
Oh please… I doubt very few of us… if ANY… are worried about trying to convert the Darrells or Stormies of the world. Once again, you conflate issues and overreach. That you can’t or refuse to see the core of the issue just proves you are more interested in your own version of reality.
ppGaz
“Cheetocracy”
Excellent work, IJG.
Oh, and four, I have several new Maci pictures up, taken only a few hours ago.
John Cole
I wanted to defend a friend from charges of racism that are unfair and inaccurate. I am also tired of racism being used by ‘the left’ like charges of treason are used by ‘the right.’
The plagiarism- looks like they got him dead to rights on that.
DougJ
Okay, you’re probably right. I Santorum comes from the wing of the Republican party that you hate more than I do. That wasn’t bad faith — I forgot how much you hate those super-Christian guys.
rilkefan
CaseyL:
FWIW it makes perfect logical sense to me as an English sentence. I stopped reading FDL because Hamsher, outside her range of expertise (i.e., Plame), is just too partisan and too pleased with herself and too unthoughtful to bother with.
srv
Perhaps this is about redemption to those on the right, he just can’t keep surrendering. He may care what those on the “right” think, but I honestly can’t think of anyone who posts here that does.
Peach
Anyways, I just think Hamsher is a bitch and I’m just glad someone finally had the balls to call her to mat – and she flinched.
Cheers John!
rilkefan
His posting the Neuhaus quote, without comment, might not be proof of racism, but it’s close enough to indicate either racism or idiocy or deep ignorance coupled with a puerile desire to epater le gauche. I felt sick when I saw that.
RedDan
John,
I can see you wanting to defend a friend against charges of racism…here’s what I want to ask:
Can you see where those charges come from?
Let’s ignore for the moment the more extreme and harshly hysterical rants on the topic, and go directly to the meat…
Can you understand why, given the well-documented historical background, calling Mrs. King a Communist is seen as reiterating a long-standing tactic of the racist extreme?
Can you understand why, given the comparison made, saying that the Judiciary is worse than the KKK is seen as a racist remark?
Can you understand why the fundamental guiding assumption (the asserted link between blacks and crime) made by both Bennet and Neuhaus, and approvingly linked by “Augustine” is seen as racist?
I am not asking for agreement, I am asking if you can see the argument, and see why the argument has merit.
If you can see the argument, let’s have the argument.
Let’s also posit that a person can make a racist statement and NOT be a conscious, vicious, or outright racist…
And, let’s posit that a person who makes a racist statement and who is NOT a racist, or does not want to be a racist, would actually, in the end, benefit from and appreciate the pointing out of the racist nature of the comment(s) in question…that way, a person who is NOT a racist can avoid making racist statements in the future…
How about that?
Pooh
Rilke, after it was explained, I too understand, though it is in some ways much like von’s “not alot of the left” brouhaha.
Pooh
well said RedDan
Mr Furious
All I can say is I’m glad I somehow missed this whole affair.
John, there’s a reason why this site is one of the first stops for me evertime I go online. Once in a while you go off the rails, but so don’t we all. you just have a bunch of people ready to jump on you when you do.
Keep up the 95% good work.
Mr F.
ImJohnGalt
Now that’s something I can get behind. It’s Glenn Greenwald’s mother’s fault that Iraq has turned into a clusterfuck.
That said, I have now waded through the comments at FDL, and while I see an awful lot of self-congratulatory wanking (pretty much the same sort of wanking I saw on the right after their “takedown” of Dan Rather), I did see a clarification by Glenn on what he meant in his post, and a measured defense of John in general (although not specifically on this issue, which is fair).
So, I take back what I may have implied about Glenn being unfair to John.
manyoso
Amusing.
You take issue with Atrios calling you a Wanker — presumably this is one of the grenades you speak of — so in return you call him a putrid-filthy-odious-scumbag.
John, looks like you are quite the grenade thrower yourself.
DougJ
I sort of forgot that this is about Ben Domenech in the end. He’s taken enough grief, so I guess I’ll knock if off here. But I’m still ready to tear the other Ben Domenechs of the right a new one.
Barbar
John Cole wrote:
I wanted to defend a friend from charges of racism that are unfair and inaccurate. I am also tired of racism being used by ‘the left’ like charges of treason are used by ‘the right.’
Well, the racism charges might be debatable, but I don’t see them being completely off base. As mentioned in this thread, we have 1) Coretta Scott King was a communist, so why did Bush go to her funeral; 2) judges are worse than the Klan; and 3) Jefferson Davis made some great speeches during the Civil War. OK, so this guy might not be a racist, but charges of racism are hardly so off-base that they are ridiculous. And I can’t imagine you defending any of these statements.
Jane’s comments are hardly temperate; of course, Domenech is the guy whose parting words were, “I’m glad my enemies spent last week attacking me instead of America.”
I guess this is all much ado about nothing. Often in discussions about race, you can at least make people aware of the assumptions they have. Nothing like this is coming out here. Is ridiculing Bush for attending King’s funeral (because she was communist!!) racist? You can scream at Jane Hamsher, or the Jane Hamshers of the Left, all you want but you’re not shedding any light on that issue. I definitely see some racism there.
Barbar
And I’ll add that even though my politics more closely resemble Jane’s than John’s, I enjoy reading this blog a lot more than FDL, which I visit only occasionally (and would never comment at). OTOH, I also think Atrios is great (although I never read the comment sections).
foolishmortal
John, I hesitate to comment because of it, but you are in a tizzy. I have a lot of respect for you and have devoted considerable portions of my recent life to reading your work. However, you’re off base here, and you’re losing your temper.
Fair enough. In fact, hear hear! But why can’t you leave it at that? I know the whole WP thing is a sore spot with you (perhaps not Sheehan-grade), but how exactly is it relevant? This “grenade-tossing” that is so emblematic of the “Angry Left” surely isn’t unique to her (or the “Left” for that matter). Address her specious charges of racism and tear her a new one if you can; why bring WP into it? I hope tomorrow or the next day when you’ve cooled down you can look at this section and realize that,rightly or wrongly, a non-angry leftie like myself can in good faith read your ill-fated exchange and conclude that you’re not being fair to Jane.
srv
IMHO, his friends rabid and blind defense of him is probably what led him to think he could get away with that whiney non-mea culpa in the first place.
That’s what even many of his defenders will remember now. Youthful “indesgression”, plagiarism, soft bigotry, all those could be forgiven or overlooked. Plenty of examples of people moving on from that. But that “I’m innocent, but I’ll throw myself on the sword for America” shit, he can kiss his public stature away forever.
We Must Defend (blindly). We Must Attack (blindly). My friends wouldn’t be my friends if they couldn’t depend on me to kick their asses if they were out of line.
Sadly, Ben had a cheering section and not enough friends.
rilkefan
RedDan:
You’re wrong in conflating Bennett and Neuhaus – the former made an accurate reductio ad absurdam before a public not trained in such arguments (hence was reckless); Neuhaus wrote something on its face evil (though perhaps in a Swiftian mode, I don’t know). Domenech quoted Neuhaus without comment, in effect accepting the face meaning, which is what disgusted me.
Otherwise, yeah.
The Other Steve
So I’ve been listening to this Mouassaoui thing today, where he admitted to being on en elite squad along with richard reid who was going to fly another plane into the White House.
And I’m stunned. I guess, really truly stunned, that the news media is publishing this as if it were a credible confession.
The guy is fucking insane. He’s guilty of something, and I’m sure given the opportunity he would have easily blown up something somewhere. But whatever he’s telling people, it’s just a bunch of lies to play a game with them.
Fortunately, I think the lawyers in the case understand this, even if the media does not.
Please, treat this as an open thread. Cole is trolling for pickles again, and there’s really no point in responding to it.
DB
No, you want some examples of what happens when you lie down with dogs? Try the AARP for working with the GOP for healthcare reform. Try working for No Child Left Behind only to see it go unfunded. Try giving Bush the authorization to use for as a last resort only to find out he was concocting any lie that might work in order to trigger a war.
I’ll admit I’m not familiar with your blog. But calling Jane Hamsher guilty by association for the hideous crime of calling Ben guilty by the associations he himself fostered on his own site is hardly an example of you trying to work with the left and getting burned for it.
HH
“weren’t painting broad swaths of the population as ‘traitors’,”
As we all know, they have lots of love for Red state America…
The Other Steve
And speaking of Open Thread… Did you hear this Scalia flap?
I was listening to the tape on NPR, and my God that guys got a serious case of the strawmen. It really concerns me that here we have a guy as a Supreme Court justice who has no idea how to deliberate on an issue fairly based on the law and a regard for what is right and wrong. Instead he just uses raw emotion to decide cases.
Very disturbing.
Richard Bottoms
As I have often stated, I’m not interested in converting anyone.
The debalce in Iraq, the huge deficts, the comical prescription drug plan, and the congo line of Republicans headed to jail will be sufficient for my desires.
You all stay the hell home in November and get your asses handed to you.
Mainly because you deserve it for voting for George W. Bush.
Worst prsident ever.
I know it bugs you that we are not being magnanimous now that it looks like things are going our way. But frankly, six years of fag bashing, crazy fundamentalist, abortion wacko bullshit perpetrated by the Republican has exhausted my reseve of the least little hint of sympathy for your current bind.
And just because you’ve decided to jump ship before it goes down with you on board is not shining example either.
You guys are doomed, you know it, the American public knows it increasing numbers.
They are tired of their soldiers coming home in a box or limbless for an ill-conceived and even worse, ill-managed war of choice.
For what? Blood thristy sects when behead their opponets, and “allies” who condem Christains to death. Bllod on our hands, torture and hidden gulags around the world.
You voted for it.
You.
I have no sympathy.
None.
The Other Steve
John, you won’t get any disagreement from me with regards to the ridiculous use of the racism charge. Although it’s used by both the left and right to the same extent, along with the anti-semitic bullshit.
But how do you explain away the shit Ben wrote that Jane and Gilliard quoted? Was it taken out of context?
ppGaz
Indeed.
KC
Anyone wish it were football season already? I miss the football posts.
ImJohnGalt
Well baseball season is upon us. Must be why we’re seeing all these “inside baseball” type posts.
Dave in LA
137 comments and nobody asked why having one person accuse someone else of being a racist touched such a sensitive nerve in Mr. Cole? Growing up white guy in the south, every time I would travel north or northwest, there was always someone that would call me or generalize all white southern males as racist. That would illicit little more than “fucking imbecile” comment and then I would move on. But considering I lived 20 minutes from David Duke, I also could see why some people might have a certain impression of white guys from south Louisiana….
So John, WTF???? Why the severe reaction to a moronic Yankee making a stupid racist accusation? And by looking at Mr. Domenech writings, he does have big love for the dark skinned folk.
Also, what up with this whole “grenade chukers” theme? Isn’t that the core 99% of the blogs…
Stormy70
I popped the popcorn, please continue the red on red.
Krista – excellent snark up there.
Thank you from the “Stormies” of the world.
Blue Shark
Hmmm.
“racism being used by ‘the left’ like charges of treason are used by ‘the right.”
…Racism by “the left” is charged against a writer who writes racist-like comments and is at best a judgement call open to interpretation.
…Treason is charged “by the right” against anyone who disagrees with our current administration’s five year track record of incompetence, failure, lies, and death of thousands, and if proven is a capital crime with the punishment of death.
…sure seems equivelant to me…NOT!
rilkefan
The Other Steve, I think it’s fair to say that Domenech has written or quoted some things which are either stupid (KKK), ignorant (CSK), or racist (KKK, CSK, Neuhaus quote). I myself have no idea if he’s stupid, ignorant, or racist, or irresponsible in avoiding the perception of being one of those; and it doesn’t seem entirely repsonsible to call him “racist” in public on that basis, esp. given how serious a charge it is. I take it John thinks he has reason to rule out racist based on his acquaintance with Domenech. He ought to be clear about that, I think, and acknowledge the bad stuff Red Dan notes above could lead someone to think Domenech’s likely a racist.
Richard Bottoms
I absolutely see the difference. Problem as far as Joh is concerned his conversion is too little, far too late.
His party has exploited gays for political gain for six years. They have shouted from the rooftops their credentials as war fighters and guardians of the nation’s safety. They have questioned the patriotism of limbless veterans to win elections for six long years.
Now that the ice berg is dead ahead, some like John have decided that the good ship GOP might be headed in the wrong direction and headed for the lifeboats.
Having done that, would we liberals who have all along said, wrong course, wrong course, wrong course they now warn us liberals not to gloat, not tobe mean, not to grind their faces in their misjudgements of George Bush’s character and competence.
Sorry, I guess I’m just not able to do that.
They are going to get their asses handed to them in November 2006 and again in 2008. And this time when they are down and bleeding politically we are going to kick them in the balls and not stop.
They made a deal with the devil to win. The Christian Right has destroyed their party, and they bought that deal with their eyes wide open.
The bill is due. Time to pay up.
Bob In Pacifica
Good work, RedDan.
The Other Steve
Oh, and I only wish I was important enough to be called Wanker of the Day by Atrios.
But clearly nobody notices me. :-(
Anderson
Some psychology grad student could write something worthwhile about the weird “I loathe John Cole & that’s why I comment at his blog all the time” phenom.
Come on, people, Cole ticks me off sometimes, but if I didn’t think he was basically a smart, good guy, I wouldn’t bother being ticked off by him.
Could some of you try to remember why you visit this blog in the first place?
(Cue Youngbloods song.)
DougJ
By the way, when I talked earlier about how “the spear chuckers of the left” had said Ben Domenech was a racist, I didn’t mean that any actual speak chuckers had said that, nor did I mean that any particular ethnic group should be described as “spear chuckers”. I just meant that it is the sort of thing that someone who chucked spears might say. I hope I didn’t offend anyone.
rilkefan
Krista:
Logical error in your comparison: we’re talking about speech acts, and writing “The Rush Limbaughs of the right are saying X” without Rush having said X makes perfect sense.
Pooh above correctly reminds me that “The Jane Hamshers of the Left” isn’t the most useful phrase – “Lefty bloggers A, B, and C, and several others of their ilk” would be much much better.
Bob In Pacifica
When’s the next meeting of the book club?
Laura
The fact that he had to explain what he meant should have been John’s first hint he was unclear. It wasn’t just Jane, most people on this board thought John was including her in the “Jane Hamshers of the left.” And considering the charge he was making, it was pretty unfair to even use her name since she never talked about WP. She flew off the handle, but I would have been pretty pissed myself. A simple apology from John for his horrendous choice of words would have been so simple. That being said, the first day of their spat entertained me throughout a tough day at work, so I can’t complain.
rilkefan
DougJ, you really ought to learn about diminishing returns and “always leave them wanting more”.
ImJohnGalt
Bruce Jenner once chucked a spear (well, a javelin). Curse you Bruce Jenner for calling Ben a racist!
HH
“Rush came onto my blog and called me out for falseley attributing it to him, then I would apologize to him and admit I was wrong.”
Somehow I think the term “Chelsea Clinton was compared to a dog” would work its way into your post a lot sooner…
Pb
Woo. WTF did I miss here…
ImJohnGalt,
Cheetocracy is the greatest luxury, raise the double standard! (with apologies to The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy)
John Cole,
It’s admirable to want to defend a friend, but you’ve strayed pretty far from that original intent by now. ‘ware the deadly mission creep, and make sure you have an exit strategy!
DougJ
Sorry, Rilke, I haven’t really commented much here recently and I can’t stop myself.
Richard Bottoms
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary, Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore, While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping, As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door. `’Tis some visitor,’ I muttered, `tapping at my chamber door – Only this, and nothing more.’
Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter, In there stepped a stately raven of the saintly days of yore. Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he; But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door – Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door – Perched, and sat, and nothing more.
Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,’ I said, `art sure no craven. Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore – Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night’s Plutonian shore!’ Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.’
Why?
2300 dead.
17,000 wounded.
$500,000,000,000,000 wasted.
I’m sure you like to go back how things were before.
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.’
Ancient Purple
I’m still wondering what would be so awful about showering in prison.
For some people I know, that would be a fantasy come true.
Joey
Heh, it was worth reading all the way through just for that.
rilkefan
DougJ, that was just some friendly advice – I haven’t been around much myself, as real life threatens to take over.
Broken
Kinda dumb, really.
One day John renounces all allegiance to any of the Bush butt-boys and the next day he’s defending one of the worst of them while attacking another foe of the Bush butt-boys (Jane).
Weird, because neither John nor Jane can stand Bush. I see a lot of this lately. Andrew Sullivan throws in the towel on the Iraq war, and then the left beat him up! Lots of insanity on both sides here.
Pooh
So, the consensus answer to my question “Why Balloon Juice?” is largely like Anderson’s (and I asked first, dood)
Much like John knowing what he meant even when we didn’t, we all internalize the “good guy but” part on are way to saying “F You for this one, John Cole!” Strangely, he doesn’t always hear the first part, especially since we don’t actually say it. Just something to keep in mind going forward.
Look Richard Bottoms, etc., as fun as it is to make someone wallow in their own wrongness, it doesn’t exactly make for enjoyable conversation for anyone, and if one feels the need for spleen venting, you have options.
CaseyL
John, I say this as someone who likes you and adores this site:
I’m not “haranguing” you. I’m saying that the statement which you say didn’t mean what it looked like it meant looked so much like what you say it didn’t mean that a lot of people – not all of them stupid, not all of them enemies, not all of them wanting to pick a fight; but, indeed, quite a few people who wish you well – wondered what the hell you were thinking.
And, yes yes and bloody aye, you have “explained it 50 fucking times…”
…while still calling us idiots, enemies, shitheads, and whathaveyou.
Oh, hell. I’m bored with this, with trying to explain what you’re obviously not able to see. Fuck it.
ppGaz
And now for something really important:
The Arizona Cardinals have just announced that their first football game ever in their new One Trillion Dollar Stadium will be a preseason game played in August against ….. wait for it … the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Indoors, in air-conditioned comfort, in August in Phoenix … on real grass. Yes, the field is on a giant movable platform and is rolled into the building only for the games. Rest of the time, outside and soaking up the Arizona sun.
So here’s the deal, John. If you can get out here in August, I’ll treat you and your friend(s) to good seats to the game and all the refreshments you can handle.
Watch the Steelers run circles around the hapless Cardinals in the newest and most spectacular new stadium in the NFL … and get a souvenir ticket to the first game ever played in the building.
Think it over. Let me know if you can make it.
Day and night views — new Cardinals stadium
The Other Steve
Because dKos is boring and liberals are really no fun arguing with, and I can’t post to redstate because I questioned someone’s preconceived notions.
Oh and proteinwisdom and a few other blogs are like walking into an insane asylum and trying to have a conversation with the inmates about shoes.
ppGaz
Cardinals’ announcement
marky
John,
I’m a bit confused. You said you wanted to defend BD from an unfair charge of racism. How did falsely imputing a totally unrelated charge to Jane, as well as comparing her to Ann Coulter, make your case? Please explain.
By the way, I would be interested in a defense of Ben from the racism charge that goes beyond “he’s my friend and he’s not”. I think the evidence is quite strong that he is a racist. This evidence has been laid out by Jane, by Steve G. and in this thread. If you care so much about refuting the charge, why don’t you do so?
The Other Steve
You gotta be fucking kidding me.
It better have a gold dome, that’s all I can say.
rilkefan
Christ, that’s an incredible stadium, but for the 0.4 billion dollars we could cure several tropical diseases and buy me a house in San Fransisco.
Pb
The Other Steve,
Looks like it’s only 370.6 million. That’s, like, 3 hours and 40 minutes of national debt, or 38 hours and 50 minutes of Iraq war funding…
Ancient Purple
ppGaz,
If John won’t come to Phoenix, I think you, me and Gold Star should buy tickets and go with signs saying “We love you, John Cole!!!”
Of course, John would laud us or ban us.
The jury is still out as to which.
jg
I’ll be at that game. My dads got season tickets.
Zifnab
He’s that Republican friend you know who’s a nice guy at heart and clearly knows his shit, but every now and again is just plain wrong. Hardly a reason to never speak to him again, and certainly preferable to hanging out with the kid who still supports Buchanan for President. And a daring breath of fresh air when you’ve been standing with too many people who get physically arosed at the sight of Howard Dean.
So Atrios thinks he’s a douche of the week, or whatever it’s called. Happy Birthday. I’ll still take Balloon Juice over Red State any day of the week.
Justin Slotman
Can we all come to Phoenix, ppG? It could be the first annual ColeCon!
stickler
Honestly? The fucking cool hyperlink moronhelper buttons without which I could not function in cyberspace. Seriously.
But Mr. PpGaz: trillion dollar stadium? That has to be hyperbole. Even if the sums are off, I have to say: retractable grass?
God in heaven, that puts Seattle’s twin retractable roofs to shame.
When us Portlanders decide to bribe some major league even further, we now have another fantabulously expensive hurdle to vault. Damn you, Phoenix.
richard
Wow, this is totally out of control. I am a liberal, and a big fan of Atrios, John Cole and Jane Hamsher. I link to all three of them on my own site and have deep respect for them. I think Atrios was out of line in granting John his coveted Wanker of the Day award – there are far, far greater acts of wankery than this, which I don’t think even qualifies. Unfortunately, in his explanation John sounded contemptuous of his critics (which I can somewhat understand) and then the pile-up began. His big mistake, IMHO, was comparing Hamsher and Black to Ann Coulter. Ann is an extremist. B & H are purely middle of the road and somewhat to the left; their positions on iraq and the wiretaps and Bush in general are strictly mainstream, and they never advocate hatred or racism or make blanket generalities about “conservatives” as though they bear some dread disease, the way Coulter and Malkin habitually do in regard to “liberals.” In a sense John Cole is very much like B & H, it just took him a bit longer to get there. So this silly kerfuffle is a waste of everyone’s time, and a pity, too – I would have liked to see a bridging between the middle-of-the-roaders like John and the somewhat-to-the-left-middle-of-the-roaders like Jane and Duncan and Glenn Greenwald. I thought we were heading in that direction. Can’t we work together? Can’t we all get along? Maybe it’s time for all parties to swallow some pride and declare a truce.
Binky the Dung Beetle
“. . . for the 0.4 billion dollars we could cure several tropical diseases and buy me a house in San Fransisco.”
What’s wrong with Fresno? And this tropical diseases rant of yours is getting old. Scabies is not a tropical disease. Kwell you maniac.
Steve J.
Remember that the next time you have an aneurysm about Powerline, or Rush Limbaugh, or Ann Coulter. You don’t hate their tactics- you hate their popularity and success.
John, this is over the top. AssRocket, Fats & Skank lie all the time. Jane & Duncan don’t.
Evilbeard
I am 99% lurker here but I check this site everyday because I enjoy the balance of right and left. Mostly I am a moderate lefty (though my ultra-right wing mother-in-law says I am a far left fringe liberal) and I enjoy politics but loathe all the scathing attacks and rhetoric that goes on in what seems like almost all politically themed blogs nowadays. I could never be a Republican (in their current guise) because I loathe their tactics and rhetoric. I cuodl never be a Left-Wing Liberal (or Moonbat or whatever descriptive term is in favor) mostly because I cannot stand to be around such vitriolic hatred. Just reading the comments about you over at Hamsher’s blog made me unsure about who is worse, the far right or the far left.
As a favor to the moderates who hang out here I hope you’ll continue the way you and Tim have been before this whole Hamshers of the Left shitstorm started.
John, personally I think you made a mistake in your wording. You don’t agree and that’s fine. Lots of people want to be assholes about it and their dickishness is the general reason I lurk and do not participate.
Gray
“Wankers and racists- everyone of us!”
Congrats, John. But who’s “us”? Like you said, about half of your readers don’t have a problem with Jane and Duncan. But you’re not really part of the Bush fanclub either. So who’s “us”? The republicans who’ve had enough of Bush but won’t turn liberal because of it? Can’t remember that anybody called this whole group racist. And Domenech surely isn’t a part of it, that GOP parrot.
Come on, John, stop fooling around. Dunno what you see in that Bennyboy, but in defending him you went somewhat over the top. Sure, Jane’s story was mediocre at best. Yes, she did mix things up a bit. But you like to make some hefty rants now and then, too, so you can’t convincingly sport a ‘holier than thou’ attitude. Your statement “The Jane Hamsher’s of the left” didn’t make much sense and looks as though you engage in that very same behaviour you purport to critizise. Just like “Stop swearing, you a**hole!”.
Besides, we still don’t know who the members of that club are. And now it seems this exclusive group doesn’t even include, well, Jane Hamsher! Sry, but this is idiotic. Can’t you just say that you went too far because you were under steam? Get over it! Why waste energy to defend banters that shouldn’t have been made in the first place?
Gray
“I wanted to defend a friend from charges of racism that are unfair and inaccurate.” JC
That’s perfectly ok and that’s one of the reason why we ‘moonbats’ like you and come here. It’s just that you went a bit over the top in defending him. And, pls be realistic, you didn’t offer any insight into why he was smearing Ms. King that way, even speaking up against the Martin Luther King day, if there aren’t any racist motives.
LoafingOaf
I read this site regularly but don’t take part in comments.
I followed the comments in the other thread. While John Cole’s original statement was too eaily misunderstood by many people (and if that many people misunderstood, the fault probably lies with the writer), he did indeed clarify it immediately to explain what he was thinking when he wrote it. Should’ve been end of story right there.
Everything that followed just showed what harassing and freakishly obsessive assholes certain people can be. John Cole shouldn’t let such people get under his skin. The Jane Hamshers of the left make me ill, and I hate to see them getting John Cole upset over nothing when he’s an nice, fair guy and they are anything but nice and fair.
Slide
This is all one big act. Its clear to me that since Iraq turned into the humiliating debacle that it has, Cole has lost interested in his blog. Knowing that you were utterly wrong in supporting this disaster of a war and for voting for a self-evident moron for President (two time) can be quite demoralizing and confidence shattering. So, Cole’s own blog has become a big chore for him. You can almost tell that he drags himself to the keyboard these days to bang out one of his infreqent posts but alas his heart ain’t in it anymore. He picked the wrong side. The wrong arguments and he is way too proud to every admit it. But, he needs to get hits here for his advertisers now doesn’t he? So, what is the bored disillusioned professor to do? Start a flame war. Make incredibly stupid comments. Rile up the pot. Hey, he sees that it works for the Rush Limbaugh’s of the world. Coulter is not doing badly by her style of debate now is she?
Anybody that believes that Cole is not just trying to get the numbers up on his blog the easy way is not really paying attention.
Tobin Maker
Well, I’ve decided to give John Cole a field commission: General Stupidity he is!
And what started John’s final descent into quagmiric blatherdom? Evil lefties exposed John’s monkeyboy Benny Redstate for the plagiarist racist he is. How dare they! The kid’s only 24; just old enough to start wearing long pants and maybe joining the marines and serving in the war he champions! Nowhere near an age at which you might expect him not to parrot bigots’ talking points, sling baseless accusations at former college newspaper editors and lie about getting permission slips from P.J O’Rourke!
There! We made Benny cry! I hope we’re happy, we freaks!
BumperStickerist
I think the Lefties of the Left (as opposed to Norbizness) manage to suffer that ‘I’ll stop reading when I see the word I want’ trend.
Here’s the pull quote regarding Domenech –
Note that he’s talking about ‘the worst’ judges, not all judges.
You might also pick up on that ‘vile pretense of skin color’ bit in there. Apparently, Ben’s that sort of racist who thinks skin color is a vile pretense.
Here’s the entire thread.
About halfway down there’s this exchange:
I don’t find the comparision particularly apt. But I also don’t think that example, which has been misquoted extensively, proves anything.
Meanwhile, The Jane Hamsher of the Left’s ability to discern actual racism is called into question.
FDL’s Very Own, the One, the Only Jame Hamsher!
That’s Kate O’Beirne as ‘KKKate’.
The ‘Klan’, apparently, is a bunch of people who post on The Corner including Jonah Goldberg. Because in the world of THE Jane Hamsher, the KKK now admits Jews.
So, let’s all bear that in mind as The Jane Hamsher flings accusations of racism about. The Jane Hamsher of the Left doesn’t know what the hell she’s talking about.
.
BumperStickerist
yss, for the keyboard police, that should be ‘Jane’ not ‘Jame’
Pat yourself on the back if you think that’s important.
.
RedDan
Hey bumperstickerist?
Define “worst” as in “the worst of the Judges” for us please?
Is that what, 10%? 20%? How many? What are the criteria?
Jane Finch
Oh my…Glenn’s mom emailed Glenn who emailed Jane…no wonder they all sound alike these days. I don’t know about the WP incident, but even this pinko feminazi quit reading Jane after her reference to Lieberman as a “coathanger-wielding creep.” Talk about the Powerline of the Left…
just a fly on the wall
Well, well, well. What fun.
I would say that it is time to call this thing off and let people return to their lives.
Most reasonable people seem to agree that John has been disingenuous and obtuse regarding this matter, although this may not be such a bad thing. [hint: check the site meter.]
And that Jane Hamsher is a heavy handed bitch who can’t abide any kind of disagreement, but still did not even remotely deserve to be compared to the likes of Ann Coulter (who really is evil, whereas Jane is simply a little too full of her own self importance).
It is hard to believe that John really believes that Jane even remotely resembles like Ann Coulter, but I am beginnning to suspect that he has figured out something that Ann knows all to well. Say something outrageous and people begin to listen. (hence the site meter fun)
If someone really believes that a public person is a racist, he or she has a right to express that opinion. I am guessing that John would agree with this.
The comments here have been one of the most entertaining things many of us have read in awhile. So John deserves a huge amount of credit for allowing them – even jumping in at the right moment to get prod them along.
By contrast, if anyone says something which even slightly disagrees with something Jane or Redd (unless they are a memeber of the long-time commenter crowd) they are almost always called a troll and threatened with banning. But then again, FDL doesn’t need to curry favor with the uninitiated, so it can afford to keep its site as free of dissent as say … as a Scientology “church.” (note: I am not saying FDL is the new Scientology, I am just making a point about allowing dissent, and putting your money where your mouth is and supporting free speech, even when it is uncomfortable. Just as John has done here. Supressing disagreement is a slippery slope, and I wish it were kosher to say something on Jane’s own site.)
Bad John for likening Jane Hamsher to Ann Coulter (but smart PR!). Good John for being such a good sport about all the ruckus.
Tobin Maker
Finch,
Let me guess…you were a pinko feminazi until Jane besmirched that idol of pinko feminazis everywhere–Saint Joe Lieberman…
Now could you please pull my right testicle so it matches the left?
I wish I had a dollar for every faux “I was a leftist until the left showed me how evil they are” post on right-wing blogs.
BumperStickerist
I’m not sure if you’re being intentionally obtuse or just proving my point.
If you were actually interested in an answer, you or one of your cohort would have to ask Ben what his intention was regarding when he wrote ‘the worst’ if you’re looking for specific numbers or Ben’s criteria.
Otherwise, you could, you know, stop to consider the paragraph as written, on a blog, by a blogger and figure that Ben was talking about ‘not very many’.
But that lacks the rhetorical flair of saying ‘Ben said federal judges are like the KKK!!!! He’s a RACIST!’
That also requires a dollop of common-sense by the reader when the Left, collectively it seems, can only muster up a soupçon.
If you used the quote, as written rather than as-reported, you’d get something like this:
Meanwhile you missed, or were uninterested in, the ‘vile pretext’ part in the same quote by Ben and Jane’s glib reference to the KKK and the Klan.
I eagerly await a dissertation on ‘codewords’ and the rhetorical conventions employed by Evil Rightwing types. I’m sure it’s more fun to type those than to read the source material.
Cheers.
Par R
Well, John, how does it feel? Can’t you just feel the LOVE coming from all these “interesting” liberals and their comments? All of this brings back the thought that Kevin expressed last week: “…mere scrolling through the comment threads here often leads to a form of ‘association’ with some of the most repugnant, short-fingered vulgarians that one could ever expect to encounter in life. Tight little left-lugnut pockets of foul-smelling gas….seething low-self-esteem headcases who shouldn’t be allowed to scrawl their thoughts on soiled paper bags in dumpsters or subway cars, let alone punch them into a web form box with a submit button nearby. It’s become increasingly difficult to even type the names of some of the malodorous subhuman cretins who inhabit this nuttersphere anymore; it leaves one with an enormous desire to simply want to be done with them. Blecch.”
You ready to join Kevin yet, John?
Jim Allen
Andrew Card has resigned as WH Chief of Staff.
One more, over the side of a sinking ship.
ImJohnGalt
Man, Bumperstickerist actually used a cedilla in the word ‘soupçon’. Colour me impressed. Seriously.
I personally think that the “Loretta Scott King as a communist” thing is callow and disrespectful on its face, but not necessarily indicative of racism. The Judges-KKK thing, while not explicitly racist, sure is stupid hyperbole.
The strongest argument to me of either bigotry or willful stupidity is his praise of Jefferson Davis’ speeches. Quoting Neuhaus without comment (which would indicate tacit agreement, else why post it?) doesn’t really speak well of him either. Note, I believe Levitt did *not* explicitly claim that aborting black babies reduced crime, but that aborting babies in general reduced unwanted/unsupportable childbirths, which reduced the incidence of crime. As Steve Gilliard pointed out, in absolute numbers aborting all white babies would reduce crime by a whole lot more.
Can’t we all just get along?
A little?
[cheetocracy]
p.lukasiak
Its pretty funny, at this point, that Cole’s name came up as someone who would make a good “conservative” blogger for the Post (as opposed to Box Turtle Ben).
But after his “The Jane Hamshers of the left don’t include Jane Hamsher” defense, he has disqualified himself.
That being said, John should be proud, because he is now an immortal….
John’s defense is going to go down with “fake but accurate” and “it all depends on what the definintion of ‘is’ is” as among the most lame-assed defenses of all time.
Steve
That’s the second time Par has posted that rant. He must really love it. The thing is, he attributes it to “Kevin,” but I’m not sure how many people have any idea who Kevin is. So let me explain.
The original:
Par’s version:
I’m not accusing anyone of plagiarism here, since he did, after all, throw the seemingly-random name “Kevin” in there, albeit without a link. No, I’m simply accusing him of a complete, utter, soul-consuming lack of any imagination whatsoever. How worthless do you have to be to copy someone else’s rant, change “wingnut” to “left-lugnut,” and go around pasting it in every thread as if you’ve made a point?
Vlad
John:
Since you seem to honestly not understand the problem here, I’m going to break it down for you as simply as I can. I write ad copy for a living, and one of the first things I learned on the job is that if the people reading your text don’t understand it, it’s ultimately your fault for not being more clear. In your head, your words might seem worthy of being carved on stone tablets and carried down the mountain, but a mass audience is always going to pick up on something that skated right past your eyes. That’s the way it is for everbody who’s ever touched a keyboard.
Think about Dave Lenihan, that poor talk radio host who accidentally called Condi Rice a “coon” last week. He pretty obviously had no bad intent when he started talking about her, but it all came out wrong, and then there were consequences.
You may not have meant to imply that Jane was a crazy person during the whole WP thing, but that’s the implication that a lot of your readers (including me) took from it, and that’s the implication Jane took from it as well. Words only mean what the audience thinks they mean, and unless you want to own the meaning that people took from that passage (Jane Hamsher is a crazy lefty who rants about things she doesn’t understand), you have to back away from it with some grace and dignity. Apologizing to Jane for accidentally insulting her would be a good start.
This all goes double or triple for Ben Domenech. He may very well not be a racist, but he has written a bunch of things that make him look that way, and at this point it’s almost immaterial whether he believes them or not. The body of his legitimate work is, at best, irresponsible, and if he genuinely is as pure as the driven snow, he needs to either exercise a hell of a lot more discretion in his future work or re-evaluate whether this is the right career path for him. Between the racial stuff and the plagiarism, people aren’t going to cut him any slack at all in the future.
Richard Bottoms
I agree with you there.
Even I’m not that cynical.
He’s burnt out and beat down.
After we destroy the Republicans in November I might start feeling a bit more chartible.
John Cole
Vlad- that is all well and good, and that is why within a half hour or so I CLARIFIED my comments.
What is going on now, several days later, is that people are pretending either:
A.) I never clarified my remarks
B.) That what I was trying to say makes no sense- when in a conversational style, my comment makes perfect sense (although it needed to be clarified for many)
C.) That Jane isn’t a grenade chucker
D.) That I actually DID mean that Jane was one of the WP chorus, and my explanation was just ‘backpedaling’ or CYA.
It is theatre of the absurd.
Krista
Stormy – glad you liked the snark.
rilkefan – thank you for pointing out the logical error in my argument. You’re absolutely right. I had forgotten the exact wording of the original statement that created this maelstrom. But laziness is no excuse – I could’ve looked it up.
RW
You’d need to borrow money in order to get a paper, in this case. Jane has blogged for quite a while & who is most certainly a lefty (a Canadian one, at that). And, if you’ll note your misinterpretation, she said she stopped reading Hamsher, not that she was no longer a lefty.
Comprehension.
mike
John has unfortunately become too thin skinned. I understand he clarified his post and all but some things are best lest in the past.
John Cole
Vlad-
Like, for example, this:
They are just pretending now.
Vlad
“that is all well and good, and that is why within a half hour or so I CLARIFIED my comments.”
True enough, but when your misunderstood passage is interpreted as an insult, you really need to apologize to the injured party as well. Particularly if your first response when they show up and take offense is to call them an “asshole flamethrower” and an “itinerant fool” who “can’t read”. You may think Jane Hamsher is the lowest of the low, and that’s fine, but you wronged her on this particular thing and you need to acknowledge that and make amends.
One time, I screwed up my syntax and said that an agent hosting an open house had a large rear deck and a big backyard, instead of the house I was describing. I probably could have just tried to let it drop, but she deserved an apology, and she got one, and then things went back to normal a week later.
You don’t have to buy her a collection of Cindy Sheehan commemmorative plates from the Franklin Mint, or anything like that. Just do the right thing.
Steve
John, even after John Kerry explained a million times why he voted for the $87 billion before he voted against it, people still made fun of him for it.
Do you get why?
Krista
Oh Christ, not one of those!
ImJohnGalt
This made me laugh, for some reason.
Hell, even on a bad day, our conservative party could barely be called moderates. Canada, where even the conservatives are liberal!
fwiffo
And “Canadian Royal Mounted Police” implies that all Canadians are Mounties.
Can’t we just decide that we’re all one big happy wanker family and let this shit go already? Jesus fucking goddamn Christ on a cracker.
Tim F.
Broken,
Actually it’s not weird at all, and I think the disconnect that you see says a lot about John and about you.
Before and after John left Republicans he regularly picked fights with people on his ‘side’ who used dishonest and nasty rhetoric that he didn’t want to be associated with. Try here, for example:
Read a similar take on Hewitt here.
It constantly amazes me how even regular readers internalize this jaundiced view of John as somehow slavishly devoted to the people on his ‘side.’ Do you think what I just posted will matter? It won’t. Next week some other regular reader will make some cynical remark about how John loves Bush and gives his ‘side’ a free pass. So if you wonder why John gets pissed, now you know. There are dickheads and tribalists on both sides of the aisle. Most of them don’t even know it, but good lord are they happy to project it.
p.lukasiak
although I’m not an actual Jane Hamsher, I am definitely a “Jane Hamsher of the left” as defined by John Cole.
In fact, I’m probably the first person to admit being a “Jane Hamsher of the left” which makes me THE Charter member of the “Jane Hamsher’s of the left” club
Vlad
“They are just pretending now.”
Some of them are teasing you about it, yeah. Doesn’t matter a damn bit, in the end, as long as you know that you’re in the right.
Taunts only sting when they prick the conscience. After you clean this up, you’ll be laughing harder than anybody.
John Cole
Vlad-
Jane is an asshole flamethrower- that is her whole schitck, and she has acted like an itinerant fool (IMO). And I am not apologizing- I have apologized for the confusion and clarified, but I am not apologizing for something I did not say.
I will (and have) taken responsibility for the confusion- I will not apologize for what she thinks I may have said, though. If I were to do so, she and others like her would simply use it against me as if I really had intentionally stated she made the WP claims and then had to back down.
And since it is clear that Jane does not read this site (something I think she shares with many of the commenters here- I don’t know the John cole many of you are describing), has no idea who I am or what I think, has unleashed her cretins on me (as well as unleashing the Atriettes), it is going to be a cold day in hell before she gets an apology from me- espically for something I don’t feel the need to apologize about.
You can chalk that up to stubbornness or whatever, but that is how I feel.
BTW- Lost in all of this is the fact that I was right. It wasn’t these trumped up charges of racism that brought Ben down:
Just fyi.
Blue Neponset
By the same token, I think John needs to remember why he started this blog. I don’t know the answer to that but my guess is it wasn’t so he could get into an asshole-calling contest with Lefties such as myself.
Vlad
You have to admit too, John, that it’s a pretty good straight-line. You can do the Spartacus:
“I am Jane Hamsher!”
“No, I am Jane Hamsher!”
Or Eminem:
“I’m Jane Hamsher, yes I’m the real Hamsher
There ain’t no other Hamshers, in case you were unsure,
So won’t the real Jane Hamsher please stand up,
Please stand up, please stand up?”
And that’s not even getting into human cloning, or the Saddam doubles…
p.lukasiak
….or we could have Kitty Carlisle and her crew making the decision….
Johnny: Contestant #1, please tell us your name:
Constentant#1: “My name is Jane Hamsher”
Johnny: Contestant #2, please tell us your name:
Constentant#2: “My name is Jane Hamsher”
Johnny: Contestant #3, please tell us your name:
Constentant#3: “My name is Jane Hamsher”
Johnny: Only one of these contestants is the Real Jane Hamsher. Stay tuned, and find out which one it is on To Tell The Truth.
Krista
And our right-wing party never had a hope in hell of attaining federal power, and wound up being absorbed into the centrist Conservative party. Fun stuff. The best was when that petition went around, though, asking Stockwell Day to change his first name to Doris.
We are a big happy wanker family. Opinionated, loudmouthed, vitriolic, petty, and stubborn as rocks. Some just hide it better than others.
May I borrow that upon occasion?
Vlad
“If I were to do so, she and others like her would simply use it against me as if I really had intentionally stated she made the WP claims and then had to back down.”
If I can impose advice on you one more time before I drop this, worrying about what other people will do isn’t a really high-percentage play. They’re already making fun of you, and really nothing you do at this point will make that any worse. If she decides to be ungracious or mendacious about a sincere apology for being unclear and then rude, it’ll just make her look bad, and it’ll just make you look like the bigger man (so to speak).
Right now, you haven’t apologized for anything. You’ve clarified, but it’s not the same, because it doesn’t include the taking of responsibility for the error in the first place.
It’s your decision to make and your site to run, of course, as always.
ImJohnGalt
Not to split hairs here, John, but the fact that plagiarism was a) easier to prove, and b) subject to a whole lot less subjectivity doesn’t insubstantiate charges of racism.
Nobody is claiming post facto that it was because of his racism that the Post dropped him. I’ve heard people arguing that he should not have been accepted at the Post because of some of his more extreme views (is that like a “some people say” quote?), but I really haven’t heard anyone say that he was dropped because of alleged racism.
So I’m not really sure how that makes you right. But hey, if it means we can all move on and get back to the important stuff like the slow erosion of our civil liberties, then what the hey – you’re more fucking correct than Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction.
Gray
“this pinko feminazi quit reading Jane after her reference to Lieberman as a “coathanger-wielding creep.””
Hmmm.
“Lieberman said he believes hospitals that refuse to give contraceptives to rape victims for “principled reasons” shouldn’t be forced to do so. “In Connecticut, it shouldn’t take more than a short ride to get to another hospital,” he said.” New Haven Register
So, what’s wring with calling him a “coathanger-wielding creep”? Anybody here thinking it’s perfectly ok to let rape victims desperately canvass Connecticut hospitals in search for an “unprincipled” guy to hand them a ‘morning after pill’? Lieberman is really driving women back to old, nasty, life threatening coathanger practices. This is despicable.
Broken
Tim F said:
Yes I have read John’s blog long enough to see that he critiques others based on what he sees as right and wrong, not Right or Left. That is why this site attracts people who think the same way.
It is because John attracts such people that many of them are finding him in the wrong here. They are applying John Cole to John Cole.
I imagine John is annoyed that so many of his own readers sided with Jane. But this is not a blind-loyalty group, agreement is based on individually perceived right vs wrong, not us vs them. I think it a complement to John, and to you Tim, that you have such an audience.
fwiffo
On further review, it is possible that I might not be the first to use the phrase “on a cracker” as part of a curse.
Feel free to use it, but do be aware that it may be a derivative work of Stinky Pete.
It’s also possible that I was subliminally inspired by Dean Cook’s riff on communion wafers, AKA Christ Chex.
ImJohnGalt
Unfortunately, there are more than a few prior uses.
Google, however, finds no prior use of the word “cheetocracy”, when describing the cheetoh-eating members of the 101st fighting keyboarders.
Slartibartfast
By now, DougJ, I assume everyone is you unless proven otherwise.
I’m only half-serious; the other half is a commenter whose name I can’t recall who really did think practically everyone was DougJ. Of course, she could have really been DougJ; what a joke that would have been.
Why Tim, rilkefan and I are apparently the only ones who understand John is a mystery to me. Probably the rest of you are all versions of DougJ, who is actually Howard Dean.
Slartibartfast
The possibility that Tim F. and rilkefan might also be DougJ hadn’t entered my mind on writing that last comment, I admit.
Now I have to rent a taffy-puller to unknot my brain.
rilkefan
Slart, must be a scientist/engineer/poet kind of thing.
Krista, I got some sense of where the other side is coming from with your “the Rush L’s of the right”, so thanks, and keep up the good work as one of the voices of sanity here.
fwiffo
Ah, but no instances of “Jesus fucking goddamn Christ on a cracker” nor the variant, “Jesus goddamn fucking Christ on a cracker”. It is therefore a distinct creative work, and my intellectual property. HahA! You’ll all be theives! I’ll go down in history with the guys that invented “fucktard”, “asshat” and “teh sux”.
Halffasthero
The structure of this is so beautiful it needed repeating. I am hoping the Vladi G of the left posts more often. Pure entertainment!
Not to be a Johnny-come-lately but AMEN. I will be honest and say that a lot of accusations are leveled and the partisan noise machines makes it hard to defend yourself. The endless sniping I am seeing here is getting pretty hard to stomach and I don’t know how I would handle it. Jane defending herself certainly has a right to do so. And really this could have been smoothed over so easily it should be beneath me to make the point. Personally, I don’t think an apology would even be accepted at this point even if it were sincerely offered. As to whether Jane “pwn3ed” John, no one wins or “pwns” when things get this ugly. It may be entertaining for political carnivores but it isn’t by any least measure or stretch of the imagination constructive.
ImJohnGalt
Don’t forget “The Cheetocracy“.
[Okay, I’m done pimping my word for the next few hours, but really people, repetition is key to absorption (see Saddam, al Qaeda)]
ppGaz
Yes, hyperbole. The actual invoice will come in at something around $400m.
Retractable grass? Yes, it’s actually the cheaper of several solutions. FieldTurf ™ costs a fortune. A bigger retractable roof that would let in enough light for the grass field, much more costly than rolling the field outside. That’s because the field sits on the ground and needs no $75m supports to hold it 250 feet in the air. Even with the smaller roof opening, the “big lift” which raised the roof up onto the supports was the heaviest lift ever in North America, I think. It was a helluva operation.
You can’t have sports here without an indoor facility, if you want to make money in this market. July and August are just too hot. Even at night, temps can stay over 100 degrees after midnight. Even if you can keep the players alive, the fans won’t show up for the game unless you air condition them. So you gotta have a big building.
The ballpark formerly known as BOB (Bank One Ballpark) where the Diamondbacks, 2001 World Champs, play, was configured to be unfriendly to football and totally friendly to baseball. Air conditioned palace. Wonderful place to watch a baseball game.
Did I mention, 2001 Champs? Oh yeah, I did.
We allowed the Yankees 2 runs per game over seven games. Fourteen total runs.
Anyway, the new Cardinals stadium is going to be a jewel. Now if we only had a team ………
Retief
Look, I’ll happily accept John’s assesment that his friend Ben is not a racist (suspending disbelief on the killing Black babies is a good way to fight crime comment for a moment). But Jane is right that dismissing Mrs. King as a communist is a racist thing to say, typical of those who hated civil rights. How do we reconcile these seemingly contradictory ideas? Easily. Ben is simply to young and uninformed to realize that his reflexive attack on Mrs. King is one perpetuated by lovers of Jim Crow. He’s just repeating things he’s heard around the conservative frat house without thinking about why they’re said or what they mean.
Similarly Jonah Goldberg unthinkingly puts a dismissive construction like “deranged moonbats” into his LA Times column because talking like that is the way he gets laughs around the same Republican frat house. For those of us in the big middle, the use of the moonbat epithet is a cue that one’s interlocutor is a partisan hack to whom we should stop listening immediately. Jonah was simply too insulated in too recognize that this sort of language isn’t appropriate in that forum, even if he doesn’t mean to include “the good liberals” in it.
Bush made the same mistake in 2000 when he mocked death row inmate Karla Faye Tucker’s desire to not be killed. His imitations may get laughs in the Republican clubhouse and he was too uninformed to realize they might not be as funny to everyone else.
Sadly Ben can talk like a racist without intending to because of his youth and the company he keeps.
Andrei
From Tim:
Once again… this all started when John basically equated Jane Hamsher to Ann Coulter. He could have blasted Jane by not making such an over the top remark and drawing the ire of so many people. So let’s give credit where credit is due.
Also Tim, I find it funny and a bit sad that you condone through silence the fact that I’ve been banned on this site twice given the crowd make-up and the fact that what I say is largely ten times less inflammatory than so much other stuff written on these boards. Generally speaking and on the whole.
So, if this comment doesn’t make moderation, it’s a testament to just how childish John Cole can really be. If he let’s it fly, then maybe you guys can take a long hard look in the mirror and see that with the numbers in the audience you do get from being linked at places like RedState and The Dauou Report, you both might want to consider finding a way to actually matter with your voice instead of being the latest blog fad.
Krista
Glad to help. Although, to be frank, if I’m one of the voices of sanity here, this place is in worse trouble than I thought…
Besides, any opportunity to get a dig in at Rush cannot be wasted.
Slartibartfast
Hey, Rush rocks!
Krista
I didn’t mean the band, but now that you mention it, I’m not a fan of them either. So what I said still applies.
Geek, Esq.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/geekesque/arguing_internet.jpg
Pooh
As my absolute last thought on the matter, I’ll say this, in about 2 months, it will be standard BJ joke to say “the X of the Y did Z” where X, who is not of the Y didn’t say Z. And then we’ll all laugh, and continue our regularly scheduled insanity.
rilkefan
Slart, so cool.
DougJ
That’s what they said about the war in Iraq.
marky
Funny,
You continue to elide the racism question. You flatly assert that Ben is a racist, while offering no counter to the very specific arguments of Jane, Steve G., et. al.
Then, based on your unsupported contention that Ben is not a racist, you attack Jane as a careless bomb-thrower.
For shame—-isn’t that kind of intellectual dishonesty the purview of the Jane Hamshers of the left?
ImJohnGalt
And you call yourself Canadian. Traitor.
More cowbell!
rilkefan
Krista, I retract my “you’re a voice of sanity here” assertion above.
Krista
Eh..to each their own. I think I was turned off of Rush by a fellow I dated when I was 14, who insisted on playing Rush all the time…incessantly…and would refuse to play anything else. I grew tired of him and tired of Rush at about the same time.
Richard Bottoms
Precisely right. I am old enough to rememebr seeing the firehoses and snarling dogs on the news. It’s not some ancient history in a book for me.
Much of the conservative rhetoric comes from snot nose youngsters who have no idea why it is black folks would get all riled up at a little politcal hyperbole.
And another reason why I’d drink Drano before voting for a Republican anything. Ever.
blackfrancis
John,
as a regular reader and mostly non poster, let me give my $0.02.
you come off as a bit OCD.
I think it’s all of the hand-washing.
The Pirate
I suppose this is the price you pay for not ruthlessly supressing comments on an idealogical basis.
Alaskan_Pete
Nice one Cole. You cleared that mako by fifteen feet easy. And stuck the landing no less. Well done indeed sir.
Helena Montana
Right. Only conservatives are allowed to practice name-calling. John.
Kimmitt
You are so close . . . it’s the combination of their popularity, success, and tactics which we hate.
Anyways, speaking as someone who by and large likes your stuff, your post on this was crap. If you want to talk about the “Jane Does of the Left” doing something, you have to have an example of Jane Doe actually doing that thing.
The fact that you didn’t is, in my opinion, something of a tell. On the rare occasions when I have undermined my own argument using a stupid analogy like that, it has generally been because I was aware that my opinion was weak but still felt somehow compelled to hold it.
Finally, Domenech is an whiny, entitled, lying, stealing, untalented, racist childish hack who deserves to be a punchline for a long, long time — and not because he is different from the overall right blogosphere but because he is emblematic of it.
Kimmitt
I suppose I ought to be clear — I don’t really hold Cole to be in the “right blogosphere.” He’s a different sort of fellow, and I honestly just wish he’d stop self-identifying as a member of that sad group.
nyrev
WhThe sad group doesn’t want him anyway. Half of them think he murdered Terry Schiavo and the rest of them smile indulgently as they explain that it’s not John’s fault that he’s fallen in with a bad crowd.