I don’t know what the hell is going on this month, and I think I am going to chalk it up to this being August, but all around me it looks like liberals are just losing their damned minds. Maybe it is because Congress is not in session, and the President isn’t signing bad and bloated bills, so by comparison, the liberals are just up to their usual nonsense and I am simply reminded of what turns me off about Democrats. This month, liberals have just been heaping nonsense upon nonsense, and this offering from TChris at Talk Left is just another example:
The right wing built its power by embracing extremism, but surely those who still claim to be “compassionate conservatives” will publicly oppose this hate mongering:
Members of a church say God is punishing American soldiers for defending the United States, a country that harbors gays, and they brought their anti-gay message to the funerals Saturday of two Tennessee soldiers killed in Iraq. …
The Rev. Fred Phelps, founder of Westboro Baptist Church in, Topeka, Kan., contends that American soldiers are being killed in Iraq as vengeance from God for protecting a country that harbors gays. …
Hey- I am all in favor of bashing Fred ‘God hates Fags’ Phelps and his miscreant followers, but on this one, all I have to say to TChris is ‘Welcome to the party!’ The ‘right wing’ has loudly denounced Fred Phelps. Repeatedly.
I am not even going to bother linking to all of them, because there are so many of them. But I will bother to point out that this is just another feeble attempt to smear all ‘right wingers’ with the antics of a fringe lunatic, something that never gets old in some quarters.
I guess TChris would get pissy if I pointed out that Phelps is actually a Democrat.
Do I think Phelps embodies what it is to be a member of the modern Democratic party? No more than I think he embodies what it means to be a modern right winger, or, as TChris wants you to think, Republican. I might note that if all Fred Phelps was doing was going to these funerals and shouting from a megaphone that ‘George Bush Murdered YOUR SON!,’ TChris and most Democrats probably wouldn’t have a problem with him. After all, then all Phelps would be doing is bringing up the cost of BUSH’S ILLEGAL AND IMMORAL WAR OF CHOICE FOR OIL.
So, for my sake, could you lefties I normally link to and normally think of as sane, could you please cut the crap?
More here.
Don Surber
Lemme get this straight: The complaint is Fred Phelps does not represent all conserves. OK. So since when does TChris represent all libs?
Jeff G
Who cares if TChris gets pissy. POINT IT OUT, JOHN!
Otto Man
Yeah, TChris is way off base here.
I don’t know anyone — left, right, or center — who wants to claim Phelps as part of their side. Hell, there are probably people in his family who distance themselves from that nutcase.
There’s a big difference here between Phelps and someone like Pat Robertson. Phelps isn’t, wasn’t, and never will be a political player in either party, much unlike Robertson. While Robertson’s comments needed to be (and were) denounced by more responsible people on the right, no one needs to apologize for Fred Phelps except the twisted parents who raised that freak.
John Cole
Fred Phelps thinks Pat Robertson is going to hell for being a gay-lover.
Otto Man
True. But can you blame him? Robertson’s real first name is Marion, after all. It’s as plain as the hallucinations in front of Phelps’ face.
Defense Guy
Fred Phelps probably is gay, the self-loathing sort of course. It would be a struggle not to try to kick his ass, should I ever be so unfortunate as to encounter him. Which is exactly what he wants, free publicity to peddle his hate.
BumperStickerist
this should be promoted to the front page –
somebody tell Armando! :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and, fwiw – Hunter over at dKos channeled Jeff G. with regard to identity politics.
So, perhaps the two of you are making inroads.
KC
I’ll go with Defense Guy on Fred Phelps. Oh, did anyone notice the SacBee story about the protests at Walter Reed? When John posted that story a few days ago, someone in comments mentioned how insignificant and little those protests were. I guess they’re a little more significant now.
Blue Neponset
I agree with your post in general. Fred Phelps is a non-partisan issue, everyone thinks he is a sick bastard.
This, however, caught my eye:
The Dems don’t have a monopoly, by any means, on this tactic. If this kind of thing turns you off I would think you would be registered as an independent.
Marcus Wellby
I always though Fred Phelps was some sort of guerilla comic. Perhaps Andy Kaufman?
Rick
If Phelps gets it in his head that Casey Sheehan was gay, things could get even uglier.
Cordially…
Joey
That’s precisely what I was thinking Blue. This isn’t a Dem thing; This is a stupidity thing. Stupidity runs rampant among all people, regardless of political beliefs. So, if Dem stupidity is making you stay Republican, then why isn’t the Republican stupidity (And, not to try to provoke anybody, but the Republican stupidity is having a far greater impact on this country right now)driving you more towards the Democrats? I would just say screw it, and say that you are independent. To be honest, even though I consider myself a Dem, the independents always garner more respect from me. As Jon Stewart has said, “Let’s be reasonable!”
neil
Now why would those evil Lie-berals try to link a man who believes that homosexuality is the most serious crisis facing the world today with the Republican party? Gee, I just can’t figure it out.
Narvy
From the SacBee story:
So they demonstrate at a hospital to get their message across.
jobiuspublius
Liberals are out of power, bullies. Let’s see something about bigger prey. Try Limbaugh on for size.
DougJ
So now we have Democrats falsely accusing Republicans of not condemning extremists whom they have in fact condemned. It’s enough to make your head spin.
james richardson
It’s just politics John. The left (ok, the far Left) are getting points where they can get it. Bringing light to Phelps and trying to force the GOP to denounce him publicly, and (the left hopes) bringing to the surface certain negative views many on the right have of homosexuals.
It’s not as if the right misses any chance to portray any gaff, mistake or bad choice of words the left makes as an example of the “lunacy of the left”, with the willing help of Fox News and right-wing blogosphere. Why get so upset when the left does the same thing?
Joe Albanese
John Cole:
Yep.. those damn liberals losing their minds… like calling for the assasination of democratically elected foreign leaders….. oh.. that was a big time Republican.. wait…
oh.. ok…. how about teaching Creationsm in schools as science…..? oppps….. Republicans again.. big ones.. Bush, Frisk, McCain….
wait.. there is some liberal insanity around here somewhere, running over the crosses of dead soldiers in Crawford? Nope.
calling Cindy Sheehan that “bitch in a ditch” ? nope
saying all New Yorker would be cowards in the face of a terror attack? nope
calling Senator Durbin a traitor because he words were in Al Jezera? nope….
saying Cindy Sheehan is a fake like the forged documents Rather was talking about? nope….
calling Cindy Sheehan a nazi? nope that was jonah…..
damn… all these moderate right wing things are just getting in the way
salvage
Whenever anyone makes the “Blah blah you don’t condemn hideous thing X therefore you must agree with / support hideous thing X” argument I go to Google News punch in the word “baby” and something along the lines of this:
An investigation is underway in Ukraine into alleged theft of newborn babies after mothers complained they had not seen their babies or their bodies.
always pops up. (nice world huh?)
I then email the story to the accusing hack and say “Why I didn’t see anything on your blog condemning this baby selling / beating / raping / eating story therefore you must agree with / support baby selling / beating / raping / eating. Have you no shame?
Phelps is like baby selling / beating / raping / eating he’s evil and sane people don’t need to say it anymore than point it out or condemn it; it’s a given.
Joe Albanese
You know what infuriates me about John Cole is that he doesn’t seem to see that stupidity, intolerant and over the top statements, manipulative rhetoric, and the like are in abundance on both sides of the aisle. When he says things like
I have to shake my head. Really John? And you don’t think there are an equal (if not more) things that I could point to that turn me off about Republicans? Are you smoking crack or what? As a liberal I have had to endure the Rush Limbaughs, Sean Hannitys, G. Gordon Liddy’s, and Mike Savages of the world making the most incredibly incendiary demonizing untruthful comments about liberals for years and years. But listening to you, one would think the Republicans take the high road and are just the poor victims of liberal insanity. Please give me a break with this shit, its getting really tiresome.
Now before you get all snarky, I know that you put in your blogs Republican Supidity, but regardless of that, YOUR commentary always seems to infer that the left does it more often, or is more insane, or is more unreasonable, blah blah blah.. And quite frankly John that is just pure bull shit and even you have to know that.
ppGaz
All public politics is theater.
There is something off-putting about people who live by selling tickets to the theater, crying “I’m shocked — shocked! — that there are theatrics going on here!”
The GOP wants to sail smoothly along on a phony “values” agenda, when in fact, “values” is a code word for “fucking over people you don’t like.”
Phelps is an icon in that theater of action.
Of course he is going to be highlighted.
What the hell did you expect?
I’d run a tv ad showing Phelps superimposed with George Bush, if I had the dough. And I’d be right to do so, because Bush happily takes votes from people who silently approve of Phelps, or who may cluck their tongues, but harbor the same bigotries. There is no other excuse of rationale for the dishonest, bigot-baiting “defense of marriage” bullshit.
Maybe once a quarter, we could declare a “call a spade a spade” day in the blogosphere? You know, just for a change.
John Cole
You know what I don’t get about Joe Albanese? That he doesn’t recognize it when I attack the stupidity on my side of the aisle, yet defends the Democrats when I attack their stupidity. Let’s go down the list:
Yep. Denounced that.
Yep, denounced that, but I don’t remember McCain supporint it.
Yep, denounced that, but I have no idea if the person is aliberal or a conservative.
Yep, denounced that, as did the FREEPERS who ATTACKED HIM.
Never heard of that.
Yep. Defended Durbing repeatedly.
Never heard of that.
never called her a Nazi, and neither did Jonah or anyone else. Did note that assholes have been adopting her insanse rhetoric.
Damn. Joe Albanese reads some other website or doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.
Otto Man
That would be Ann Coulter. You can see her comment and repetition of it at:
Media Matters
That would be Rush. See http://mediamatters.org/items/200508160009
(For some reason, it’s only letting me embed one link a post. Sorry.)
Not saying you needed to rush to the blog to denounce these idiots too, but in case you were curious.
Blue Neponset
John,
Other commentors made the same basic point about the, “I am simply reminded of what turns me off about Democrats” sentence that Joe Albanese did, we just didn’t attack you personally when we did it.
Why did you only respond to his comment? It seems pushing your buttons is the best way to get a response from you and Joe Albanese seems to have figured this out.
It takes two to start a flame war maybe you could avoid them more often if you stopped taking the bait?
Joe Albanese
John Cole:
How convenient that you left off what else I said,
John Cole:
Me:
John Cole:
John Cole:
.John Cole:
Damn John Cole doesn’t read some other websites or doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.
John Cole
Blue-
I don’t think I do suggest that Democrats do it more often. But ideologically, I have more in common with Republicans, which is why I remain one. When I see Democrats doing stuff like this, I it reminds me, among other reasons why I don’t leave the GOP.
As for Joe, he thinks he is reading dKOS, or something. And I refuse to react to anything Ann Coulter says.
As for McCain, he has been one bright spot regarding science in the party, and the comments I see don;t mean he thinks ID should be taught alongside evolution. I think his comments make it seem more like he thinks it shuld be taught in religion or philosophy.
And Cindy’s comments have rallied neo-Nazi’s, as well as David Duke. That doesn’t mean she is one, or she is intentionally serving as fodder. for those bigots. But she is, nonetheless, it would appear.
And Joe. Go look up infer.
Tim F
It makes perfect sense to me. John’s blogging niche (post-Schiavo anyway) is outraged ranting against partisan extremism. When he needs a Dem or lib or whatever to balance the rightwing nutbags, sure he can wait for somebody who matters to do something outrageous like call for an assassination, or blame Boston for priest molestations, or demand that kids be taught Creation. Good luck. Dick Durbin happens only so often.
When people who matter can’t deliver, a guy can always turn to people who don’t. It’s a ten-cent cinch to troll around the left-wing blogosphere until you find somebody saying something stupid. Sure nobody who matters gives 10% of a rat’s ass what these people think, but they’re Democrats. And stupid Democrats mean that Democrats are stupid. Voila, instant balance.
John Cole
Lol. Or, it could be that I read Talk Left and respect them, went to their site today, and saw that at the top of the site, and said “WTF?” And this is after reading Armando at DKos playing his race-baiting games. And numerous other behaviors from the left, in which it seems like they have lost their damned minds this month.
Tim F
Please. You read enough right-wing blogs, and blogs about dogs and baseball and Harry Potter, to know that blogging selects for people who often speak first and think later. It occasionally happens to bloggers otherwise known for their balanced judiciousness and rapier wit. Cough.
If you want to cherry-pick the stupid left-wing blog posts that you find, bully for you. God knows metablogging has been around as long as blogging and probably longer.
But please, spare us this idea that your cherry-picked examples represent some capitalized Group that pays dues and holds weekly meetings.
Joe Albanese
I think Tim F got it exactly right. There are nut cases on both sides as I think everyone can agree. I happen to belive however that there are more nutjobs on the right that are perceived as mainstream. Pat Robertson comes to mind. As does Rick Santorum. And just about every right wing talk show host on radio or cable TV. I dont’ see an equivilency on the left. I really don’t. Maybe my partisan leanings are blinding me but is an Al Franken the same as Rush Limbaugh? Does Franken distort the truth as often and as glibly as Rush? Is Alan Colmes as equally partisan and knee jerk predictable as Sean Hannity? Is there a left wing Bill O’reilly? A Mike Savage? An Ann Coulter? Bernie Goldberg can write a book about people destroying the country like Barbara Streisand and Phil Donoghue. Really?
These guys do their stick on a daily basis. The attack on liberals being anti-american, traitors, unsupportive of our military etc etc go on every single fucking day. But according to John Cole, its the insanity on the left that drives him to his beloved Republican party.
John says he pays no mind to Ann Coulter. How convenient.How about the rest John? What are your feelings on: Rush, Sean, G Gordon, O’reilly, Goldberg, Savage et al?
John Cole
How the hell is this cherry-picked? I go to Jeralynn’s site. I read the top post. It is this nonsense. I have seen lots of nonsense like it this month. I write:
And you think I am unfairly tarring all Democrats? Please. I simply fail to see how claiming that the only reason Democrats look bad is because the Republicans have shut up and temporarily stopped looking worse is the sort of full-throated attack on Democrats you seem to perceive it to be.
And I still don’t understand how this is ‘cherry-picked.’
Rick
And ALL CONTROLLED BY KARL ROVE!!!
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
Cordially…
John Cole
Yes. Although they aren’t driving me to the Republican party. They simply keep me from leaving. What is the point? Same bullshit.
And I don’t really care for Limbaugh, I have a pathological hatred for O’Reilly (no exaggeration), I am not fond of Hannity in the least, and I think Savage is a straight-up bigot.
I generally ignore Coulter, but I confess I really like the fact that she infuriates you so much. I might have to start quoting her for your benefit.
And I find it odd that you think being called anti-American is somehow more offensive than being called a Chickenhawk, a facist, a war-mongerer, a murderer, racist, etc.
At any rate, I love how the actual topic of this thread has now shifted from the stupid comments by TChris to what I choose to write about. I guess that is as much of a defense as is possible.
Joe Albanese
JC:
Again, I’m not saying its more offensive, its just that the people saying those horrible things on the left are not of the same power and stature as those on the right making equally repulsive attacks.
Speaking of right wing nut jobs I left one out:
oh, wait, maybe he is not so nuts after all.
Tim F
Ohhhh. That makes more sense; as I said earlier speaking-before-thinking disease runs pandemic in the blogosphere. I shudder to imagine the day that you respect Little Green Footballs or Powerline enough to get mad when they pick a particularly pungent post out of their nasal cavity.
You can maybe understand my misunderstanding when I read a sentence fragment like this,
…and unconsciously insert the word ‘all’ between ‘about’ and ‘Democrats.’ It sounds intended.
Tim F
TChris is half right. There are people in America that the Movement Conservatives must never, ever criticize lest they meet the same fate as John Dilulio. However, it’s safe to say that Fred Phelps is not one of them. I call it 1 for 2.
John Cole
You can’t make me read Powerline. Not even at gunpoint.
Really, though. I check LGF about once every 3 weeks, and the ONLY time I will read Powerline is if I need an updated talking points.
Joe Albanese
JC:
You might have a harder time finding her quotes:
.
Joe Albanese
Wonder what some of the comments were on TChris’s post?
.
Mike
“Joe Albanese Says:
I think Tim F got it exactly right. There are nut cases on both sides as I think everyone can agree. I happen to belive however that there are more nutjobs on the right that are perceived as mainstream. Pat Robertson comes to mind. As does Rick Santorum. And just about every right wing talk show host on radio or cable TV. I dont’ see an equivilency on the left. I really don’t. Maybe my partisan leanings are blinding me but is an Al Franken the same as Rush Limbaugh? Does Franken distort the truth as often and as glibly as Rush? Is Alan Colmes as equally partisan and knee jerk predictable as Sean Hannity? Is there a left wing Bill O’reilly? A Mike Savage? An Ann Coulter? Bernie Goldberg can write a book about people destroying the country like Barbara Streisand and Phil Donoghue. Really?
These guys do their stick on a daily basis. The attack on liberals being anti-american, traitors, unsupportive of our military etc etc go on every single fucking day. But according to John Cole, its the insanity on the left that drives him to his beloved Republican party.
John says he pays no mind to Ann Coulter. How convenient.How about the rest John? What are your feelings on: Rush, Sean, G Gordon, O’reilly, Goldberg, Savage et al?”
The only reason there are no equivalents such as Franken versus Rush is that no one wants to listen to the moonbats. Doesn’t mean they’re not just as wacko, it’s just that since no one listens to them, they don’t have as much influence.
John S.
As I’ve noted many times before, John Cole has a classic case of brand loyalty.
I don’t really fault him for it, and I’m sure not even he is aware of where it comes from exactly.
What he can tell you is how much better Coke is than Pepsi while pointing out the myriad of atrocious things about Pepsi that keep him from drinking Coke. And even though Coke has had some pretty shitty products in the past, it just tastes better damn it!
Boronx
Fred Phelps is the Right’s Ward Churchill on steroids.
Squatch
Dean Esmay: http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/1125244916
“The biggest problem: the clearly psychotic Reverend Phelps is walking the streets, a danger to himself and others. Our mental health agencies are, for the 1,236,457th + time, demonstrating ignorance and incompetence that borders on the criminal.”
Evil Conservative: http://www.evilconservativeblog.com/2005/08/26/supporting-the-troops/
“This shameless show of hatred toward our military is pretty much as low as it gets, only beat by the Westboro Baptist Church protesting at funerals of soldiers.”
Ace of Spades: http://ace.mu.nu/archives/099918.php
“Fred Phelps is a vicious idiot, but it looks less and less plausible to say he’s one of our vicious idiots.”
Arthur Chrenkoff: http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/2005/06/sickening-idiots-of-day.html
“All things considered, the three or however few members the “church” has probably deserve a punch on the head from American servicemen – better still gay servicemen – but our soldiers are better than that. Plus, getting exposed through your own words in the court of public opinion as a complete moron is a punishment enough.”
Squatch
Michelle Malkin: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/002742.htm
“If you live in Idaho, please consider showing up to counter the hate and support Spc. Carrie French, whose death is being exploited by so-called Christians.”
Daily Pundit: http://www.dailypundit.com/newarchives/002380.php
“I don’t know if I’d be quite as concerned about right-wing religious nut-job and full-time hater Fred Phelps and his band of lunatics’ rights. If anything ever qualified as fighting words, this would be it.”
Blackfive: http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/08/the_intent_of_f.html
“What the Tennessee Editorial misses is that the intent of the hateful, ignorant Fred Phelps and his “church” is to get funds from filing law suits against anyone who assaults him or his followers.”
Alarming News: http://www.alarmingnews.com/archives/003257.html
“I have never been happier to find out someone is not a Republican.”
Squatch
Etc, etc.
Yeah, we right-wingers just LOVE us some Phelps.
15 minutes to find the above links. Try Google, lefties.
Stormy70
The lefties have their own set of facts in their Reality-based world. Just like on TV, reality-based means there are writers (Kos) helping with the script. Phelps is a Democrat who happened to be invited to both Clinton inaugerations, but that condradicts the reality-based script. He is just a fringy nutball who runs a cult of followers. Just scum.
John S.
From the authority on such things…
SeesThroughIt
I agree with this. He’s so deplorable that he seems aploitical; no political party could (or would want to) lay claim to such a savagely stupid waste of oxygen. Not even the Female Circumcision Party from that SNL skit.
Bruce Moomaw
The trouble with this is that, so far, I HAVEN’T heard any denunciation of Phelps from Falwell or Pat “Giggles” Robertson, or even from James Dobson. When they do denounce him, they’re off my S-list in this particular matter. As long as they don’t, well… And they, like it or not, are very prominent righties in this country. (Let me add that I feel the same way about the refusal of most prominent Dems to denounce Greasy Al Sharpton.)
Mike
Calling Fred Phelps a lefty is like calling Reagan a lefty, or Arianna Huffington a righty. They all obviously left their respective parties at some point.
The fact is, while Phelps is drawn to what can only be called an issue of the right, based on the right’s own rhetoric (politicization of homosexuality as a “wedge issue,” etc.) it can also be said his insanity over the issue represents miniscule numbers on the right, and certainly none on the left.
However, if I were Pat Robertson, James Dobson, or anyone else who preaches religion as politics and has been given a place of honor at the Republican political table, I would want to quickly distance myself from this freak, and reassure my “followers” that Phelps did not represent my religion or my beliefs.
Instead we hear only the chirping of crickets. To their credit, some of the blogs on the right have spoken up in their leaders’ moral absence.