I just watched F/X’s new show “Over There,” and it may have been one of the most wasted and unpleasant hours of my life. Well- there was that one time in undergrad when I drank a bottle of cheap tequila and vomited through my nose for 2 hours. But at least I was drunk enough to dull the pain.
I couldn’t even finish the show, and as I write this it is playing in the background, and I hear someone screaming in agony. I wasn’t aware the show was filmed in front of a live studio audience.
At any rate, it is a smorgasbord of stupid, replete with every cliche and every simplistic and cartoonish characterization of the military imaginable. We have the stupid officer/NCO conflict, ham-handedly portrayed (or shall I say over-played), the race angle, the cheesy swapping of nicknames that seems to be first nature for bad military movies, and so on.
While the combat inexplicably starts and stops to allow the characters to have time for idle banter, the pain from the crappy dialogue is never-ending. Then you have the real silliness that is bound to offend anyone who ever served in the military. Friendly mortar fire dropping in at a “danger close” range of 15-20 meters, soldiers firing never-ending magazines blindly over berms (made with hand shovels in the cover of darkness- don’t ask) at wild angles, the clear lack of order, explosions launching people through the air triggering memories of the A-Team, Army guys referencing ‘boot camp,’ the advance over the berm online ala Pickett’s Charge at Cemetary Ridge. Like I said, the pain never stops.
I don’t know what military they fashioned this show after, but if this is an accurate portrayal of the modern military since I left, we have bigger problems than recruiting shortages. I also hope this show was not meant to be a ‘salute to our troops,’ because I have a feeling the troops are sure to salute right back. Unfortunately, it will be of the one-fingered variety.
Since this is ostensibly a military show, perhaps the best description is one that even most non-military types will understand.
FUBAR.
*** Update ***
More here. “Not even close to ‘Over There.'”
Andrei
The reviews of the show say it gets better past the pilot. That the cookie-cutter stereotypes start to develop and the story deepens and such. I guess we’ll see.
I watched the pilot and thought it was “ok,” but I’m waiting to see if it develops as a show past the obvious set-ups given to use in the first episode. Otherwise, it’s back to Nip/Tuck and Rescue Me.
Scipio Africanus
I agree whole heartedly with your assessment. As a former military officer, I nearly split my side laughing at the rediculous combat scenes. The dialogue is canned, and as you say, completely bogus from the military, interpersonnel and common sense perspectives. This shows needs to go in the toilet.
The only pleasure I obtained was to watch, however illusionary, our cherry GI’s wasting 50 or so ragheads. It seems that 50 Mohameds firing AK’s simultaneously are unbale to hit a single GI, despite an entire squad standing upright and blazing their way at the enemy with a bayonet charge.
Now on to what this show should really be aiming at. The alleged war on terror is a war against Islam. Why? Because the Islamic dogs have declared war on Western civilization. We must remember the message the Romans taught us at the dawn of our civilization – barbarians must be destroyed by barbaric means to ensure the survival of society. 30+ years after Hannibal and his war elephants were driven off of the European continent, Scipio Africanus Minor lead Roman legions into Carthage and basically put the entire civilization to the sword. If we are to survive, we must take similar actions again the Muslims. There is no peaceful way to coexist with these barbaric prayerbots. In Saudi Arabia for examples, Jews cannot enter the country and Christianity is banned by the state. We cannot allow the Islamic dogs to get their hands on nuclear weapons. We must follow the example given us by Scipio and use our entire (nuclear) might against the Islamic hordes before they get their hands on nuclear weapons. God wills it!
Mr Furious
Won’t be watching. Just finally caught up on and finished “Into the West.” That’s enough horrible death and destruction for one summer.
An excellent, but emotionally draining, mini-series.
Steve
Fewer TV shows about unrealistic military scenarios, more TV shows about the necessity of nuking Mecca ASAP? Now, who couldn’t get behind that idea?
cac
OK, this is totally off the subject but speaking of really bad shows,since Andrei mentioned Rescue Me, that is my least favorite show on TV. Making a mean, vulgar drunk, who happens to be ugly and greasy,the main character is quite a novel idea. Scenes of him romancing his girlfriend or beating her up are equally revolting.
BoZ the Rider
Julius Caesar was getting ready to leave on a huge military expedition into the Middle East, but he had that incident with the Senate and had to cancel. It’s unfortunate that Roman civilization wasn’t brought to the Arabs. One thing that Caesar himself could never understand was why the barbarians were so against the Romans, when after the battles the Romans would build cities with clean water and sanitation, roads, increase trade, bring better agricultural techniques, and all that jazz that civilization tends to bring.
Things would have been a lot different than they are…
As for the show, yeah, I saw a commercial for it a while back and immediately decided to never watch FX again. It’s propaganda is what it is. It’s showing a false Iraq and an invincible American army fighting against random terrorists.
And the saddest part of it all is that it’s never going to end until the governments in the Middle East crack down on the extremist clerics… but of course they can’t do that or face a rebellion at home.
stickler
Um, OK.
Well, first of all, when’s the last time Hollywood got war “right?” Maybe “Band of Brothers,” but that was with 50 years of hindsight. During a hot war? Never. For teeth-grinding miscues, just watch a rerun of M*A*S*H sometime — anyone think red bathrobes were common uniforms in Korea in the 1950s? And they were at least pretending to deal with a previous war.
Second, I do sincerely hope that a couple of the above posts were exquisitely literate snark. Because otherwise they tend to drop jaws. Rome’s treatment of Carthage is not, I hope, something we wish to emulate. Unless we really want to liquidate all the Muslims on the planet. And I personally don’t want to pay the taxes that such a policy would require (moral considerations aside).
And Julius Caesar didn’t invade Mesopotamia, true, but not just because of Senate politics. He invaded Gaul because the Gauls were right over the Alps and had invaded Italy a few dozen times before. Mesopotamia was as far away for the Romans … well, as far away as it is for us. Metaphorically speaking.
Nikki
Tom Shales…is that you?!
Laugh out loud funny.
Nikki
I think you must’ve missed the point of the show.
Joe Albanese
other than that John, how did you like the show?
Otto Man
Yeah, I had the same reaction. Cliche after cliche. The so-how’d-you-get-your-nickname and here’s-my-backstory-in-30-seconds Q&A was just a little too easy.
Don Surber
I miss “Combat”
Zifnab
Responding to BoZ the Rider….
Well, no one likes being conquered, even if they do get nifty amenities after the defeat. If you had to pay for indoor plumbing with the life of your first-born son claimed by death in battle or slavery, you’d probably be a bit miffed at Caeser too. Of course, future generations in the same region went on to celebrate their Roman conquerors – the English, the French, the Germans, the Spanish all turned to venerating Roman culture through much of the Dark Ages and into the Renassiance. Hundreds of years after the death of the nation, you had Czars and Holy Roman Empires and a Roman Catholic Church all springing up in your wake.
People appreciated the Romans. It just took them a while to admit it.
capelza
Hollywood and war…lots of hokum to be sure. I have heard of this show, but haven’t been compelled to watch it. Now I feel even less. I miss “Combat”, too! Loved that show as a little tomboy kid.
Was talking about war movies with my husband and the 20 y/o kid awhile back. Said husband is a Vietnam Vet, MAG 15 and Task Force Delta. He was there during that most wonderous period of when the ground troops had been mostly pulled out and the lucky boys left in country were mostly trying to avoid being the last American to die in Vietnam. He was lucky, his best buddy wasn’t. Anyway, I asked him what movies he thought best represented that war.
He said it was a mix of three..”Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, and Platoon (with an honourable mentions to “Born on the Fourth of July” and a few others). It isn’t so much the accuracy, but the mood and the whole “clusterf*uck” aspect for him. It was a very weird time. A world where his military family (grandfather a Sgt. Major in the Marines and father a former Marine in WW2 who joined the Air Force and worked in intelligence) told him he should go to Canada when he got drafted. He joined the Marines instead…
So I don’t know what is “getting it right” in regards to war films. Except for a very dry retelling of events, war would seem to be one of the most subjective things for a storyteller to relate. Except, of course when cheesy platitudes and cliches are employed…
Another Jeff
The fact that almost all shows that try to show what a certain situation or occupation is “really like”, but then end up failing miserably, is what makes “The Wire” on HBO the best show on TV.
It’s creator is David Simon, who used to be a police reporter for the Baltimore Sun, and it’s one of the few shows that most people, most of those I know anyway, who happen to be in the jobs portrayed, such as homicide and narcotics detectives, actually look at and say it’s realistic, or as realistic as could be expected.
(Although, Season 3 did get a little bit “Jump the Shark-ish”)
W.B. Reeves
I think it was film director Sam Fuller (The Big Red One) who said the only way you could communicate the reality of combat to an audience is if you set off a bomb in the theater and then shot them in the shoulder.
KC
I wouldn’t waste my time watching this show. I can’t see it being that much better than the old Green Beret flick starring John Wayne. That was made during the Vietnam War. I’m told by father that it stinks today as much as it stunk then.
over it
The whole idea of having a soap opera about an ongoing war just pisses me off. I think that it belittles what is actually happening there. I think it somehow dilutes it and makes it seem not as real….look! it’s entertaining!
How many idiots are going to base their impression of the War on this soap opera? I guess that depends on how popular it ends up being.
I, for one, will avoid it like the plague. I think it is disgraceful and that our REAL soldiers will find it offensive.
Just my 2 cents(or less) worth.
TallDave
Check the milblogger reviews. They’ve been extremely harsh.
Stormy70
I love Nip/Tuck! When is the new season? ( I hope I don’t cause a coronary by liking the same show as Andrei. :) ). Paging Dr. Troy…stat.
On topic. Over There looked like a beating from the previews, which I saw at least 25,000 times while watching the Buffy runs on FX. I started to develop a great disliking for the show based on overexposure before the damn thing ever started.
John, sorry about the tequila story. I found my lost shaker of salt drinking cheap tequila margaritas in Mexico. I couldn’t drink margaritas for 3 years. I call it the dark ages of my life.
p.lukasiak
perhaps the show is actually a metaphor for had badly the war has been run up until this point?
mike famie
only read the second link, but wow, i really have to disagree with him. especially his take on the first scene, which is exactly what happens over there (no pun intended). it happened numerous occasions and it’s infuriating and frustrating. and not to sound too defensive or anything, but i never shot up or destroyed a mosque. we’re constantly asked to fight with one hand tied behind our backs.
all the “media” and “anti-war left” rhetoric sickened me. maybe i’m just in a terrible mood, but i’m tired, exhausted really, that seemingly intelligent people can’t seem to wrap their heads around the idea that because you don’t support the war, doesn’t mean you think any less of the troops. i won’t defend the media as vigorously, but i’ll stand shoulder to shoulder with the anti-war left. i’ve witnessed more compassion, understanding and support from evil liburls regarding this war than from anyone else, particularly the head-in-the-sand war supporters who actually make our job more difficult. the war is winnable and its objective is nobel, but the less honest we are about what we’re facing and what we need to finish the job, the longer the war will last, and soldiers will die needlessly. i have far more of a problem with that then i do with anything on the “left.”
sorry if this post comes off as hostile, i really am in a bad mood, but i wanted to kick in my 2 cents.
mike famie
i should probably say after all of the, that i didn’t actually like the show, i share much of the criticisms that john posted. it’s astoundingly cliche heavy.
refugee
All you folks missing Combat!: I’m watching the whole series on DVDs rented from Netflix, a fabulous resource for old shows, foreign films, anime, and other hard-to-find items.
I am not competent to discuss technical details, but there are a few things I noticed and applauded.
First and foremost, the show clearly demonstrates the awful costs and moral conflicts of war, yes. But rather than showing us how evil soldiers are, and arguing that the war should be stopped, these sacrifices are used to point up how crucial the war was, and how strong were the soldiers making those sacrifices.
Now if only they’d release Rat Patrol.
Bob
Bilko. Now there was a series. Phil Silvers was great.
Cavalry_Scout
As a current active duty military officer, I’m thankful that Scipio Africanus describes himself as a “former military officer.”
The day we also descend into barbarism is the day we become worse than our enemies– worse because we’ve tasted civilized society and will know what we have lost. My soldiers fight fiercely when they must, and show compassion when they can, but they always fight according to the laws of war.
James Stephenson
P.Lukasiak
How horribly this war has been run?
Are you kidding me? The war was over in less than 2 months. Less than a 1000 soldiers had died by the time our Armed Forces took Baghdad.
Has the occupation been spotless? Heck no, but it is running much quicker than say Japan or Germany. It was 4 or 5 years before they had elected a national government in those countries.
The Iraqis not even 3 years after the fall of Saddam is drafting a Constitution. They have already elected a National Assembly.
Are there still idiots causing trouble there. Yes. And there probably will be for a few more years, even after the Iraqi people are governed by the Iraqi people. There will still be foreigners, foreigners not Iraqi’s blowing up innocent Iraqi’s. Which I am sure you can use as ammunition to still talk about how badly the war is being run.
What a maroon.
mark
All that was missing was the Iraqi’s and US soldiers singing together, ala’ ‘Coprock’. How is it possible for a ‘can’t miss show’ to miss so badly?
Rambo II had better dialogue.
mark
Had to find some more on Coprock:
http://www.jumptheshark.com/c/coprock.htm
Insightful then, insightful now….
“This is probably the worst show on television. The creative genius who thought of this show should never be allowed to work again.”
“This show was so horrible that it was funny.”
“This is the WORST cop show ever. Compared to this insane piece of shit, both Dragnet and Five-O were Shakespearean. They should shoot anybody involved with this shit.”
“This thing never jumped the shark…it made a B line straight into it’s mouth at light speed.”
“Can anyone believe that the same guy who created this show is responsible for NYPD Blue and Hill Street Blues?!?!?! ”
“What were they thinking? Steven Bochco should be ashamed for this abortion of a concept! When and if I spawn children, I’ll refer to Cop Rock when I tell them about the evils of abusing drugs.”
still, check the link…there’s a lot more.
russ
I think John Cole in this case has nailed, “Over There” perfectly… Talk about a silly and opportunistic, this television series fills the bill…
BTW nuking or cratering both Mecca and Medina during the height of the haj seems like a real good idea…
Think of it as a Wahabi weiner roast…
Kevin Murphy
Too bad you missed the end where the Al Jazeera “reporter” was treated with the contempt deserved to someone embedded with terrorists, and the captured terrorist leader was spouting off clearly idiotic leftist cant as they shoved him into a Humvee.
I find that many folks who diss this show didn’t watch it.
Observer
More accurately, it’s a metaphor for how anti-military Hollywood seeks to portray US soldiers as idiots.
For Hollywood, all war = “Vietnam”
Lastly, if this war has “been run badly” which wars have been run better?
Putting things into proper context shatters the LLL ‘perfect war’ meme, which has never existed, and never will.
Lt. Jarred Fishman
I blogged about “Over There” as well at my site if you want further corroboration as to how bad this show was…
Bleepless
I gave up on it when an ad showed alleged American soldiers walking along a ridge line. Photogenic? Yes. Suicidal? Yes.
George Turner
You should offer a more constructive criticism of the show, or even suggest some plot ideas.
My latest suggestion is that they have a Green Beret colonel go nuts out past Fallujah. He claims he’s a prophet and starts cutting people’s heads off. So then they snatch another Green Beret major from vacation and send him on a PBR boat headed up the Euphrates to “terminate” the colonel “with extreme prejudice”. We can work that in as some sort of racial angle or something. Anyway, we have lots of B-52s, Hueys, and stuff getting blown up with The Doors playing background music (are they still together???). It’ll be great…
Maybe we can work in some Playboy bunnies and some French farmers.
Duke of the Discs
Wathcing right now…they are making a big deal about a kid and woman dying…..lets see the kid came between the fighting, thousands of bullets had just flown….back and forth…then the kid came in the middle and threw something at our men…it could have been a bomb….mom came out to yell at him to not do what the other adults were do…WHAT SHE SHOULD HAVE DONE WAS TURN IN ALL THE MEN WHO WERE HIDING…as should all the IRAQIs…the only way to get rid of insurgents (aka murderers)…this show is edited to look bad for our soldiers and of course our COMMANDER IN CHIEF…typical Hollywood liberalism at work….call it a drama about a current war but dont even GO TO IRAQ to see if your facts line up…..THEN THEY SHOW CNN or some other media run by libs….showing edits to be anti war in theme.
Great direction…and camera work….thats about it.
Jeb
Note that that it appears Bochco’s nepotistic urges have been satisfied with this series. There is at least 2 younger Bochcos involved. My guess is we are seeing the younger, stupider generation at work. I had the initial revulsion of the first episode, but then forced myself to watch 4-5 more to assess the overall scope, rather than knee jerk. Let’s just say my initial opinion has not changed much.
Jeb
OK, that’s it. Show’s over. Just watched the lead off in the episode where they shoot the little boy’s chess set. And the FRENCH woman is trying to save him and scolds the patrol. And instead of telling the kid to just open the box to they could see what’s in it, they threaten to shoot him and then make him set it on the ground. THEN, they shoot the box even though the kid and his frog savior are only a few yards away! All the while they are hiding behind their armored humvees.I have gone from disturbed, to nauseated to absolute anger. Bochco can expect ZERO patronage from me and mine. And HSB was one of my favorite all time shows…. This show is a slander of every military man and woman.