This was sort of inevitable:
White House environmental adviser Van Jones resigned Saturday after weeks of controversy stemming from his past activism.
“On the eve of historic fights for health care and clean energy, opponents of reform have mounted a vicious smear campaign against me,” Jones, special adviser for green jobs at the White House Council on Environmental Quality, said in a statement announcing his resignation just after midnight Saturday. “They are using lies and distortions to distract and divide.”
Last week, I got a lot of heat for suggesting that if Jones had all those connections, he needed to go. Apparently, the White House either determined he did have those connections, or that it was too difficult to prove he didn’t, so he had to go. I don’t know if he was unfairly smeared or if the charges are legit, but it is clear the WH does not want the distraction.
It remains, however, completely acceptable in Washington to completely support and carry out torture. Hell, some people think it is worthy of a medal of freedom.
I’m with DougJ. We had a good run as a country.
wvng
I think seeing the new Beck book in DougJ’s post below was nearly my final straw. Combined with this irony and self-awareness free post from a RW acquaintance on Facebook: “Let’s stop pretending that the viral messages about healthcare are spontaneous. The machine has decided to step up the pressure and the flock have obeyed. Freedom, freedom, freedom…” He was writing about this kind of post: “No one should die because they cannot afford health care, and no one should go broke because they get sick. If you agree, please post this as your status for the rest of the day.”
We did have a good run as a country. I may join DougJ in his bomb shelter soon.
DougJ
This is also Glenn Beck’s first scalp. It solidifies his place in the Republican power hierarchy.
Aaron
As an emerging DFH, I find it odd that telling uncomfortable truths will get you fired, but lying your ass off to anyone who will listen is quite acceptable for everyone from Senators to cable news hosts.
Van Jones did have an activist past. He said some controversial stuff. While I haven;t followed everything he has ever written, I feel comfortable saying that most of his controversial statements are entirely factual
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist
I’m with DougJ. We had a good run as a country.
Sigh
This was about the last blog I expected to join the curl-up-and-die contingent. but even the stalwarts like TBogg seem to be going there these days.
Or is this just some sort of new punctuation this blog has adopted, sort of an “over and out” except it’s pronounced “we’re so fucked”?
DougJ
This was about the last blog I expected to join the curl-up-and-die contingent.
It’s not curl-up-and-die surrenderism, it’s already dead, the way of the samurai.
John Cole
@Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist: I’m just joking around. It is sort of an exasperated “WTF?”
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Yup, this is a feather in Beck’s cap. It’s sad to say but our country is nuttier than squirrel shit. The only reason we are a ‘world power’ now is our nukes, other than that we got nothing. If not for those nukes I think the rest of the world would have invaded us by now.
I know I sure as hell would have.
JoyceH
If the slightest whiff of Trutherism makes a person unacceptable for public office, why isn’t the same true for Birtherism? If ever Republican who ever expressed fellow-traveler support for the Birthers were forced to resign — who would be left?
SGEW
At this point, I’m sincerely hoping that Van Jones was an actual 9/11 truther back in 2004, and that he came clean to the Obama administration, and that they all agreed that his nutty beliefs were unacceptable.
However, if (as I suspect) Van Jones just signed a petition asking for a better, non-partisan investigation into the events of that day and the botched clean up attempts that followed, or negligently signed a petition without being familiar with what it said (i.e., did not subscribe to the “On Purpose” side of the organization) . . . well, then I’m pretty disappointed by the whole thing. God damn it.
In memory of Alex Van Jones, here’s the video clip of him calling Republicans “assholes” (skip to 0:33) and one where he calls George W. Bush a “crackhead.”
Leelee for Obama
@Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist: I don’t think we’re actually giving up, I just think the pure, undiluted horseshit that has been spinning in the Wurlitzer has everybody kinda down.
I wrote to the President this week, to two Members of Congress and I’m composing an LTE to my local paper. I have to mail it, because they only give you 200 or so characters online. It’s not much, admittedly, but it’s what I can do right now.
This has been a crappy week, filled with crappy days, and I don’t even care that yesterday was Mom’s 90th b-day, cause she really doesn’t remember that our little family celebrated it with her.
There’s lots to make a body tired, you betcha!
slag
This change looks awfully familiar.
JHF
I’m really with DougJ, especially at #5.
Anyone hanging out by the flagpole is in for a world o’ hurt when the walls come down. Won’t know which way is up, much less what’s really real. “Surrenderism” has nada to do with it…
mark robbins
For a guy as outspoken in his beliefs as Van Jones, as unafraid of controversy as Van Jones, why is it impossible to find ONE SINGLE DIRECT STATEMENT about anything remotely pertaining to 9/11 truthers and the like.
His name is on a piece of paper which has a bunch of stuff written on it that propounds 9/11 truther beliefs. I wouldn’t trust anything a truther organization said before Van Jones, and I won’t believe it now, especially considering the dearth of corroborating evidence.
The left are a bunch of pansies. They have no fight in them, and no sense of loyalty. If my employer showed me as little loyalty as Obama did for Van Jones, I’d quit my shitty government job too, and go back to making actual money in the private sector.
This is why people won’t serve for Democrats. Poor pay is part of it. But getting thrown under the bus at the first sign of controversy is the bigger problem. They call it ‘politics’, but the right has learned that if you appoint someone to a job, you fight for them. That makes them loyal, that makes the more productive, and it makes them more likely to be there when you need them in the future.
The left has a sick culture, and winning one presidental election isn’t going to change that. We’re doomed.
Sloth
Yes. It should be. Which is exactly why Jones had to go.
El Tiburon
Cole,
What I found disturbing about your position was how you seemed to be so willing to once again let the wingnuts frame the debate.
If they claim he had these connections, well, there you go. You don’t even take the time to consider what it meant EVEN if he did have these connections and in what context he had them.
Nope. You simply accept the framing of the debate. Once the wingnuts proclaimed him guilty, you fell right in line.
As an aside, just because someone has serious questions about 9-11 doesn’t make them a hysterical conspiracy theorist.
Brick Oven Bill
It pleases me that they aggressively tried to get Beck silenced, but in the end, lost one of their own. There is a lesson here about the power of sticking to your principles.
It was here on Balloon Juice where it was first declared that Beck had overtaken O’Reilly to become the FOX Alpha male. This was nearly a year ago. Beck has continued to aggregate power and has a real chance of being a national leader, perhaps in 2012.
PeakVT
We had a good run as a country.
I’m going to wait until I see the health care reform legislation before making that call.
myiq2xu
Glenn Beck is a human fuckstain
slag
@myiq2xu: Qoi?!? I call impostor!
John Cole
@El Tiburon: I don’t know if you checked the thread, but I linked to CJ at LGF, and then linked to him again in an update debunking a lot of the stuff. I know we all have our doubts about some of CJ’s stuff and past bugaboos, but he has been really good since the election at fairly (I think) looking at this stuff. He has had the balls to take on the birthers, the death panel lunatics, the teabaggers waving guns at events, and most recently, the shrieking nonsense over the President speaking at schools. Say what you want about him, he has played shit straight far more than anyone in the Republican party.
Rey
Van Jones resigned due to becoming a distraction, good for him and the administration. I don’t look at this as a victory for Beck, his advertisers are jumping ship so the real victor is Van Jones (Color of change). Jones can now concentrate on making the rest of Beck’s advertisers abandon him and that is a very good thing.
Have a happy Sunday!
GregB
Ah yes. The media helps in the pigpile on Van Jones. Now they have helped Glenn Beck get his first scalp.
Reading the posts on the video where he calls the Republicans assholes, the commenters state that this reveals Joneses character.
I mean how could they deal with someone who refers to people as assholes? What kind of a person refers to someone as an asshole in public?
Adam Clymer just kicked out a window.
-G
General Winfield Stuck
I’m about as big an optimist as has been on this blog, I think.
And what I see is one party, the gooper one, as the one who has surrendered. Or quit, took their ball and gone home, any way you want to describe it. You can’t fight political fights within bounds of the system, when the other side has whipped itself into full rebellion against the system we have.
We have a presnit who has bent over backwards, sideways and all manner of contortions to work with the GOP toward giving them some voice in the process. We saw it with the stimulus by including more large tax cuts, and the response was a big middle finger. And now with HC reform it has reached truly scorched earth tactics on a level not seen in my lifetime. The wingers have left but one choice for dems. Either do our bidding with via full wingnut governance by proxy, and we stop the seditious mother of all temper tantrums, and let the boy in the WH carry out our agenda, at least for a while.
The country under these circumstances cannot survive as it has the past 230 years, and will overturn into something else, Politics by other means is the only other option when one side refuses to be governed by elections and their consequences.
We are on a glide slope to anarchy, and I wish I could see any other possibility. It’s just not there, without a complete coup by de grace from Obama and dems to placate the frothing right wing mobs.
mark robbins
Trent Lott said this on national TV:
“I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over all these years, either,” Lott said at last week’s party.
The republicans defended him tooth and nail for two weeks, using any opening, making any excuse, no matter how pained. In other words, they stuck their neck out for a guy who worked hard for them, they’re loyal.
What do we do when we get attacked? A turtle impression.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@slag:
Naah, it just takes one to know one. Mikey is just confirming it for us.
Hey
myiq2xuGoatBoy, long time no see! Sure was nice while it lasted.Jim
John Cole doesn’t let wingnuts frame the debate. They’ve been doing it since before blogs existed. Personally, I think it was Russert who institutionalized The Rule Of Drudge. But recognizing the lay of the land doesn’t mean you’re giving in. As others have suggested, we should at least start by pointing out that this obscure WH staffer has had far less effect on poisoning the political debate than Chuck Grassley, Inhofe, Coburn, DeMint, Rick Perry and the dozen or so Congressional cockroaches who signed on as co-sponsors to birther bills.
Rey
@Bob
Beck is an idiot, hence the perfect contender for Obama in 2012. Try again in 2016.
Peace..
myiq2xu
@slag:
Call all the imposters you want, Beck is still a fuckstain.
myiq2xu
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
Still in to beastiality I see.
Max
WTF is wrong with you people? “We had a good run” Really?
So, you want the President to fight but you’re just going to lay down and die? Why do you think the crazies are on overdrive? Because we’re at the tipping point of getting our country back. Do you really think they’d have gone full tilt batshit lying wackjob if they were confident they were in a position of strength? Of course not. They are losing power and they know it.
42 members of the W Administration resigned due to some measure of controversy.
I expect the next post on this blog to be “If Only Hillary Were President, We’ve all Have Health Care and a Pony”.
Sad.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Ahh, just like the good ol’ dayze. Hey GoatBoy, meet BOB. You two ought to get along just great. You blow goats and BOB cooks them in his brick oven.
A match made in heaven.
smiley
So, now that he’s been emboldened, who will Beck go after next? I read somewhere (don’t remember where) that it might be Valerie Jarrett. Good luck with that one, Glen.
Jim
I expect the next post on this blog to be “If Only Hillary Were President, We’ve all Have Health Care and a Pony”.
Wrong blog. That’s MyDD, and the comments at Eschaton
Bill E Pilgrim
Rahm and Obama are playing by the rules that say you have to be bipartisan and work with both sides, in a world in which one side has gone completely batshit insane and extremist.
It’s like one of your fluffy house cats has been eaten by a dangerous python and you keep inviting the snake into bed with you because you’re in denial and still keep thinking that it’s just the cat.
Mr Furious
I watched the videos of Jones, and while they were amusing and refreshingly honest to me, they were over the edge for mainstream political speech. He was a liability politically.
Obama fucked up. If he was willing to live with Van Jones and that baggage, he should have stuck with him. If he wasn’t, he never should have chosen him.
Now Jones is diminished, and Obama looks like a patsy.
I don’t give a shit what goes on on the other side—Obama either protects his own or not.
He didn’t. He dragged Jones into the spotlight, and hung him out to dry.
Leelee for Obama
@mark robbins: Bush trashed Lott the next day, Lott had to give up the Leadership position. IIRC?
There’s nothing stopping others defending Jones-and he can still make Beck’s life hell-maybe better than before. He doesn’t have to pull punches.
smiley
@smiley: It was Dave Neiwert at C&L:
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/van-jones-resignation-glenn-beck-ge-0
SGEW
@General Winfield Stuck:
Hardly.
The U.S.A. has most definitely not “surviv[ed] as it has the past 230 years,” period. I point out the election of 1800, Jacksonian democracy, the Civil War (!), “Reconstruction,” the social upheavals of the 1890’s, the Great Depression, McCarthyism, the Civil Rights movement, and the assassinations of multiple presidents. This country has repeatedly gone through times of hardship and madness equal to or far greater than anything we are seeing now.
So, no, we are not any more “on a glide slope to anarchy” than we have been at any other point in our desperately volatile history. If you want to see other possibilities, take a deep breath, turn off the tv, read some more history, and try to get a little perspective.
[Mind you well: the Civil War, for example, was mind bogglingly awful and certainly qualifies as a worst case scenario that would justify a great deal of pessimism and apocalyptic apathy – but the nation survived, and we are not anywhere near any sort of national cataclysm on a similar scale.]
Mr Furious
This doesn’t mean jack shit for Beck’s power or boldness. He’s fucking insane, and will do whatever he wants anyway. He only has power if Obama knuckles under.
It’s not about Beck’s power, it’s Obama’s weakness.
—
BOB, Beck wouldn’t stand a chance in any race above dogcatcher. You’re high.
Bill E Pilgrim
I expect the next post on this blog to be “If Only Hillary Were President, We’ve all Have Health Care and a Pony”.
Nah, she wouldn’t have been any better, they’re all disappointingly “centrist” in an age when the center is set at around 169% to the right.
Being disappointed at caving to the Wingnut noise machine is natural, though, in fact it’s a sign of life.
General Winfield Stuck
@Max:
I think what we are saying is that it takes two to Tango in order to have a country to take back. In order to have a democratic country, the vast majority of citizens have to consent to be governed sometimes by those with whom they disagree, In this case, one half of the country seemingly has left that covenant, and taking back half a country is taking back no country at all.
slag
@Jim: So you’re the one who reads the comments at Eschaton. I knew there had to be somebody.
Also, @John Cole:
I have a confession to make. I once sat in a booth at a restaurant where three old hippies that I had just met tried to convince me that the feds may have blown up one of the towers. I have admitted my connection to 9/11 truthers. You must ban me now.
Jim
Now Jones is diminished, and Obama looks like a patsy.
Yes, he does. But not because of this. This is annoying and frustrating, but the only people who care are people who already hate Obama (al Foxeera– three to four million people), exasperated progressive blog readers (another three million?) and the forty-seven political junkies following these minutiae on Labor Day Weekend.
Brick Oven Bill
I hope that some got a chance to watch the Beck show after he got back from a week’s break, during which the boycott began. It was very powerful. The reason it was powerful is because this guy speaks from the heart, and people should respect this, regardless of political persuasion.
Beck stated that people could call him names, and take away his platform, but he didn’t care. He had lost it all before, and because of the power of his faith, that he would continue to speak his mind, and report his opinions. He would not say everything he thinks, but everything he says he would mean. He stated that his microphone could be taken away, but if it was, another one, in whatever form it took would emerge, and would be ten times louder.
Good for Glenn Beck.
As an aside, following a deployment to Greece, a group of us were going to open up a lounge called the ‘Velcro Glove’. Although I have never had sex with a goat, and have less sexual desire for goats than I have for Barney Frank, you have to admit that this is a catchy name for a lounge.
Jay B.
mark robbins is spot on. what a lame stand — the guy expressed an unassailable opinion, Republicans are assholes and signed a fucking petition four years ago. And this is “too much distraction”? Jeez, I wonder what’s distracting about it? Oh, right, because the rightwing will scream like assholes, the media will amplify it and the Democrats will rationalize why it’s good “politically” to let Jones dangle.
Meanwhile, the administration loses one of its last lefty voices, they still listlessly float toward health care defeat because they don’t want to upset the right, we won’t prosecute crimes of torture because we fear the right, the media expresses shock that liberals and gays would hate puff pieces in favor of anti-gay bigots and the Democratically-controlled Senate is quite possibly the most single inept institution of them all. And why? Because they are quite terrified of offending the right — or at least that’s the excuse, when the reality is they probably AGREE with the right.
I’m not giving up, of course, but I’m getting much less moderate in my thinking.
donovong
@myiq2xu: Calling Beck a fuckstain is, in my view, way too complimentary. It tends to imply that, at some point in his miserable existence, something (ostensibly) pleasant transpired.
Kirk Spencer
A couple of points.
First, on the Republican side we’re seeing the results of the zealots being in charge. Historically that’s always been a time of craziness. The wild minority makes everyone dance to their tune for a while.
Second, on the Democratic side we’re trying to muster will to resist. Personally, I think a major sticking point will be reached and either held or lost on Wednesday night. If Obama surrenders on health care – if he takes a Republican plan (mandates only), we’re all going to bunker down. If he puts up a fight for more, we’ll be inspired.
I’ve got a lot of split forecasts that literally depend on whether the Zealots of the Republican Party are resisted or not. This bit with Jones is a minor skirmish. In fact it’s possible he withdrew to armor that flank for the more serious battle – avoid the distraction ‘over there’ so more firepower can be devoted to the main fight. Or – and we don’t yet know – it’s an indicator of how the whole thing will go.
Before we talk of what was and will never be again, let’s see what the lines really are, shall we?
HyperIon
JC wrote: Apparently, the White House either determined he did have those connections, or that it was too difficult to prove he didn’t…
That’s where we are now, admitting that someone does not actually have to have done something wrong to get “thrown under the bus”. It merely has to be too hard to difficult he didn’t. Yeah, the old “prove you did not do this.”
If this goes on….
General Winfield Stuck
@SGEW:
The past few months, not that optomistic, I would agree.
I said we are on a glide slope to anarchy, not that we wouldn’t survive, just not as it has been. Something may happen that will bring us together again, for a while. and the glide slope will stop.
You act like the sentiment that started the Civil War was settled. It was not. And I would argue it has only simmered for the past 140 years, and what we are seeing is a bubbling up of the world view by about half our citizens that could hardly be different than the other half.
I don’t know what will happen and you may be right that the spiral down fizzles out and we all just have a big hug. But if you think the peace and stability in America is unshakable and meant to last forever, then you live in a fantasy world of apple pie.
LiberalTarian
Interesting. I am listening to a book talking about how Europe failed to realize Hitler wasn’t going to be satisfied with Belgium.
Obama fails to realize the GOP will be satisfied with Jones.
Is it over? Well, if the GOP is happy, well, looks like we’re heading toward the New Stone Age. Woo hoo. I’d expatriate, but really, no country seems immune to this BS, and if they were, we would surely bomb the crap out of them (i.e. Rome vs. the Cathars).
We do surely seem to be on the cusp of a new fascist movement, but it seems to me to be on the order of the Spanish movement of the 1930s, not Hitler’s movement in Germany. I’ve talked to the True Believers on the right–they are extremely dull tools–just the kind the GOP would cheerfully use in a bloody coup. Why not a coup d’état? It wouldn’t be satisfying enough for them. And why doesn’t Obama see this coming? Maybe he does–and hopes he can Ghandi our way out of it. I hope so, too, but showing courtesy to people who don’t comprehend manners seems like a weak strategy.
OK, I’m scaring myself. I have to stop reading the news.
HyperIon
EDIT function!
when?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
Yes, Obama’s a pussy because if he had ignored Beck or told him to STFU, the little pansy would’ve shriveled into irrelevance and we’d all have puppies and rainbows. Right.
What part of ‘No Drama Obama’ am I missing here?
Kirk Spencer
On Truthers, I’d like to point out something insidious.
If you wanted an investigation to find out where the ball was dropped, you are called a truther. You’re lumped with the people who say Bush was behind the attack.
If you point to the fact that Rice saw a report saying bin Laden was going to attack, and to the fact that Bush received a report saying terrorists were going to attack (to which he replied ‘you’ve covered your ass now’), you are called a truther. You are lumped with the group that says Cheney used Haliburton to fund the attackers.
It’s a nasty technique. ANY AND ALL question and criticism that isn’t in line with “we were surprised and we accept our administration was doing the best possible job” gets lumped in as ‘truthers’.
Just a point to consider.
Anya
@ Mr Furious, that is exactly how I feel. I don’t think Jones is diminished though, I think the environmental movement will support him and he will continue his advocate role. My support for Obama is diminishing though. He is not a fighter and at these crazy time we need a fighter.
Anya
@ Mr Furious, that is exactly how I feel. I don’t think Jones is diminished though, I think the environmental movement will support him and he will continue his advocate role. My support for Obama is diminishing though. He is not a fighter and at these crazy time we need a fighter.
Max
@General Winfield Stuck: I disagree that that demographic represents half of the country. It’s a vocal minority, who is able to devote 100% of their time to spewing bull$hit because they aren’t actually doing anything to fix what’s broken.
The GOP has lost hispanics, the young, the college educated, the unions, the middle class, a large portion of suburbia, etc.
All they’ve got left is the very very rich, poorly educated white people and southerners.
Sloth
Of course they won’t. That’s not why getting rid of him was necessary. It was necessary to prove that we do not have double standards. That is important, even if it will be largely lost on the Fox crowd.
The secondary issue is just one of picking your battles. There is no point in defending someone who is even slightly tainted with trutherism, not right now.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
If Obama had continued to ignore Beck or told him to STFU, would that have stopped the whining? They haven’t stopped and they’re not going to stop, presidential cajones or not.
And what part of ‘No Drama Obama’ am I missing here? A show of cajones is nice if you want Nooners swooning over flight suits, but we’re trying to run a government here.
HyperIon
Also Pence described him as saying coarse things.
I talked to one of my senator’s office staff last week and referred to a Big Pharma lobbying group as assholes (for running an ad and mailing flyers that imply the senator supports their position..which she does not…according to the staffer). The guy immediately interrupted with: please don’t swear. I almost told HIM to fuck off but just shook my head and hung up.
liberal
@slag:
LOL! Yeah.
liberal
@mark robbins:
The Democrats, a la Obama, are hardly “left.” They’re centrists.
Max
@Sloth: I agree.
I also think its entirely possible that Mr Jones felt he couldn’t defend himself as part of the administration as well as he could outside of it.
He’s now an activist with a seriously motivating mission. His Color of Change has already orchestrated like 30 advertisers boycott of Beck/Fox.
If I were Fox, I’d be worried.
General Winfield Stuck
@Max:
Yes, the teabagging screaming mobs are a minority, and it is true they are completely insane, but, if their influence was minor then we wouldn’t see clear majorities polled agreeing with them? and saying they were doing good./ Why do you think that is? It is because they WANT to believe it’s true, the death panels, and all the other nutty shit being dumped on the national dialogue. It is why the RW braintrust and leaders are going with the flow of these idjits. And whether it’s half or 40 percent or 30 is irrelevant. It is enough to reek havoc on the body politic if it continues, and all sign point to it will. And it is good that the long term demographics will serve to mitigate this, but that is long term and not now.
scarshapedstar
Well, I’m sure the right-wing lunatics will now shut up, join hands with Obama’s, and sing kumbaya! Absolutely pathetic.
John, their calculus had nothing whatsoever to do with the facts, which were that Jones didn’t knowingly accuse the Bush admin. of blowing up the towers. Their calculus was that if Obama just prostrates himself one millimeter closer to the ground, the snickering wingnuts will accept him with open arms.
Just like with DADT, health care, the school speech, Iraq, Afghanistan…
scarshapedstar
I think I’ve found a term to describe this phenomenon:
Cutting off your nose to spite the wingnuts’ faces.
SGEW
@General Winfield Stuck:
Hrm. You misunderstand me. I am saying that this nation has never been “together,” and that “peace and stability in America” includes periods of brutal division, irrational fear and anger, and physical and psychological hardship – this constitutes the American version of the steady state. There is no apple pie, and never has been.
Periods of outright madness and/or dischord (the Civil War, the “1800 Revolution,” the labor riots of the 1890’s, etc. etc.) are indeed “periodic.” They pass. Moreover, I have yet to see any convincing evidence for some new spasm of division that can rival much of what was seen during the 20th century (let alone the 19th!), or even the edge of the abyss we flirted with from 2001 to 2006.
But if you believe that we’re on a steady, downward slope from some perceived “stable” period in American history (the antebellum period?!) towards an inevitable state of “anarchy,” then . . . well . . . I don’t know what to tell you.
SiubhanDuinne
Only slightly O/T: I am in need of more Tunch and Lily pictures (that was a lovely one last night, thank you, John). Also a Bitsy ballot refresher. Would be very happy if RedKitten allowed you to share a couple of recent Samuel Kitten photos.
Only massive doses of BJ cute stand a chance of hauling me out of the depression and defeatism engendered by the last three or four threads.
Thanking you in advance for these courtesies, I remain, Yours etc.
Comrade Jake
Meh, I think it’s a credibility thing, as someone in a previous thread suggested. That and the storm was building heading into a week when the admin wants the focus to be on health reform. If they don’t do that, then some on the left this week are asking why Obama has allowed Van Jones to become a diversion from the health care debate.
This thing with Jones bugs me, but mostly because Team Obama didn’t have better kung fu to deal with it. I was more ticked off when Obama let Samantha Power go.
slag
@Sloth: But we do have double standards. When confessing my connection to truthers, I didn’t feel the need to say anything about the fact that over half of my family thinks Obama is a Muslim terrorist who wasn’t born in this country. That is the definition of a double standard.
And for the record, having connections doesn’t mean being in agreement. Not that those little details matter any more.
BR
We need to step it up against Beck. I had never written to his sponsors before today. Signing a petition isn’t enough. I just emailed his sponsors, as listed here. Everyone needs to do the same:
http://foxnewsboycott.com/botm/botm-september-2009/
And here:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909030040
Here’s a part of what I wrote to one: “I am writing to request that Jos. A. Bank withdraw its sponsorship of Glenn Beck’s Fox News program. Mr. Beck has repeatedly used highly offensive and unprofessional rhetoric. He has fanned unfounded speculation that the President was born in Kenya. Most recently, Mr. Beck called the President of the United States a “racist” who “hates white people.” His radio program featured “jokes” about the “Murdering Rampage of Savage Rapin’ Injuns”, “jewfish”, and so on. None of these offensive comments has any place in civil society.”
Sloth
I agree this will pass, that doesn’t make it any more fun to live through.
I think that what we are seeing here is a result of the middle class feeling disenfranchised. We’ve done what we were supposed to do for forty years now, productivity has skyrocketed, our wages have been flat, if that. The american dream isn’t just slipping away, we’re starting to realize it’s been pretty much actively gutted out from under our microfiber barcaloungers.
You have about half the country (erm – slightly more, yes?), after CHANGE and not happy because it’s not coming, like, tout suite! and the other half desperately searching for enough sand to bury their heads. And when that doesn’t work, they are off to find them some goddamn commies, since beating the commies worked last time dammit and it just has to be commies. And now the commies are not white!
What we have in common is we ALL know something is desperately, desperately wrong.
Bill E Pilgrim
So over at Sullivan’s blog, here’s a comment they highlight from a Wingnut who wrote in:
And the blogger (Patrick Appel) adds:
“That’s basically the tone of every Republican blog that I’ve read since the news broke”
So that’s the Wingnut stance. “You must remove this man for the good of the country, it’s the only responsible thing that he resign, it’s simply the reasonable thing to do”, and blah blah blah.
Then when he resigns it’s “Hey! He resigned! What a bunch of freakin losers! LOL! Failure! Just proves what a failed loser this President is….”
Yeah good move, that will silence the critics.
General Winfield Stuck
@SGEW:
Well, I will admit i was raised in the heart of what is now called the teabagging mentality, and know just how viral and potentially destructive this kind of craziness can be. So my view could be obscured toward the negative.
And what I am optimistic about still, and have been, is that some decent bill for HC reform will get passed. It may well have a trigger for a PO, and the acceptability for this would depend how hard it will be to get pulled.
The greater argument on this thread is the general health of the union, and I will re-iterate we are currently on a glide toward anarchy, and in fact are seeing it on a small scale right now. And ye,s we have experienced anarchy in the past, that I would characterize the Civil War as, and a fair amount during the GD. And we have survived, and of course, I didn’t say we wouldn’t this time.
I think you are arguing a straw man from something I didn’t say, and reading into cole’s and dougj’s half whimsical statements “that the country is fucked” or “it’s been a good run. Calm down please and have some likker.:-)
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Bill E Pilgrim: You’re assuming the motive was to appease the whining fringe.
Chris Dowd
Yes, nothing but complete and total acceptance of official 9/11 history is now a vetting point for all federal officials and state level ones that matter.
I mean to hold even a smidgeon of doubt regarding the official two party line on 9/11 is a death knell for any aspiring federal apparatchik. To be associated to any view even whiffing faintly of “trutherism” in DC would be like a Stalinist suspecting that Kirov’s death (which touched off the “Great Terror” that killed a million people) may have been orchestrated by Stalin himself and not done by evil Trotsky-ite terrorists.
I mean it isn’t like the Federal Government hasn’t acted strangely at all in regard to 9/11. I mean- yeah- ok- they have held the “Masterminds” for the attack for going on 8 years now- most of that time isolated from all outside contact- tortured, and abused . . . Ok- yeah they are putting these guys through a special trial that won’t be open to the public and that will be run by the military with rules of evidence approaching the Medieval. No- nothing to see here at all. Spending 11 million dollars to investigate 9/11 while spending 50 plus million on whitewater . . . Nothing suspicious about that whatsoever.
Of course- we would view any trial of suspects of a major terrorist event in Russia that was the springboard reason to invade oil rich countries to be valid if they held the suspects for 8 years in dungeons and tortured them- all that time with no criminal charges- and then- tried these men- in a secret military trial not open to the public. We would have no problem with that at all. How irrational it would be think anything untoward went on.
Woody
Van Jones’ sin was talking b(l)ack to White people.
Bill E Pilgrim
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
I’m assuming that the Glen Beck and the fringe is precisely why he resigned, yes.
Unless you actually think that without the daily drumbeat on this topic from extreme right, this guy would have been forced to resign anyway?
That who exactly, concerned Democrats? Would have dug out all of this truther stuff and “asshole” quotes and pushed it to where he had to resign?
WereBear
I accept that I am rowdier than President Obama.
It’s like when they fussed and fussed that he wasn’t wearing a flag pin… so he wore a flag pin. And they had to come up with something new.
It’s like the moment during one of the debates with McCain (one of my favorites, BTW,) when he held up his arm and said, “I have a bracelet…” and McCain couldn’t use his bracelet thing any more.
Van Jones can still advise and come up with things. He may have lost an official position, but that’s all. If he’s got good ideas, I think he can still have input.
I think Obama is not the “pick the hill you’re going to die on” kind of strategist. He never picks that hill.
And lives to fight another day.
This is the one who fought to the top of the pack in the primaries, and who actually won the election. I think he’s doing the best he can.
Carter kept picking hills to die on, and all we have left of his Good Intentions is “lust in my heart,” and the knowledge he was right about energy independence.
We’ll see what happens next.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Chris Dowd: Which version of Loose Change is this from? Fourth? Fifth?
If Bush had stopped the 9/11 attacks in their tracks, not only would he have been a Big Damn Hero, he still would’ve had his Big Damn War too. Add in bureaucrats who never saw a book deal they couldn’t pass up and Dick Cheney doing his best to upstage Colonel Jessup every Sunday, and I just don’t see how 9/11 was anything more than the usual Bush Administration fustercluck.
Davebo
I started to laugh out loud at this. Then I remembered Sarah Palin.
ominira
@LiberalTarian:
What we have here is an attempt at a coup d’etat by other means. If you get the 47 million people who did not vote for a presidential candidate to express their outrage vocally and to refuse in large and small ways to be governed by the winner, you’ve undermined his win. If things continue in this vein, I can honestly see Obama saying in ’12 that he won’t run again “for the good of the country.” Someone please tell me I’m wrong.
General Winfield Stuck
@WereBear:
LOL. Well put. And my sentiments on the Jones thing. Obama has the Himalaya’s to choose from, Jones was Farmers John’s molehill.
WereBear
I would roll on the ground like a happy doggie if they run Glenn Beck. Sure, they ran Sarah Palin.
And I think that was a large part of why they lost.
Davis X. Machina
This country’s been going to hell for so long that there are only three possibilities left.
a.) There is no hell at all.
b.) Hell is further away than originally thought.
c.) We arrived a long time time ago, and didn’t notice, proving hell ain’t that bad.
General Winfield Stuck
And now I’m going to take SGEW’s excellent advice and go galt.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Bill E Pilgrim: Yes, Jones resigned (for a varying degree of voluntary) because of the criticisms starting from Beck. That doesn’t mean he left to appease Beck. Nothing is going to appease the Stormfront fringe and you don’t become the first black President without having the brains enough to know that fact.
What he has done is taken one bullet away from Barney Fife’s gun the same week he’s trying to convince the indifferent middle to come out in favor of health care reform. One less distraction, one less segment on the nightly news to take away from what we all know is truly important. Twelve months from now, Van Jones will be a footnote. Health care reform and good governance won’t be.
parksideq
I’m of two minds on this. On the one hand, Van Jones’ bowing out will not placate the Obama admin’s detractors, simply because nothing ever will. On the other hand, if Jones’ presence really was that big of a threat to the admin’s goals, then we better get something good in return out of it.
I, for one, will gladly take Jones’ resignation (and the end of the faux-troversy) if that means it frees up more time and resources that can be devoted to advocating for the public option. It’s a pipedream, but I wouldn’t lose sleep over a trade-off like that.
debit
@WereBear: Yeah, but, they ran George Bush too. Remember how we all laughed because he was so stupid and said such stupid things?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@WereBear: Or, uh, what he said. Also.
licensed to kill time
Jeez, I hate to hear this. It’s like the wingers win again.
(and ellaesther, if you are around – thanks for the shout-out on your blog! I just left a comment there after seeing your posts looking for me a couple days ago.)
parksideq
Shorter parksideq: what The Sheriff’s A Ni- said.
FlipYrWhig
If they don’t do that, then some on the left this week are asking why Obama has allowed Van Jones to become a diversion from the health care debate.
@ Comrade Jake: Exactly. Look, we already went through this with Skip Gates. The media doesn’t like covering the arcana of health care policy but really, REALLY likes making black people answer for things other black people say. Obama–and the rest of us more-or-less sane people–can’t afford to let the media idly play with itself for another two weeks.
slag
@General Winfield Stuck: You think keeping Jones would have been the hill he was going to die on?
Personally, I think this decision was wrong from both a moral and a strategic standpoint. So, we disagree. Don’t tell anyone we’re connected through this blog. Otherwise, someone might ascribe your opinion to me, and then, I will have to disavow your opinion and every other opinion you’ve held that I might also disagree with.
AB
Gus
In my opinion, Van Jones is twice the man as Barack Obama. If their positions had been reversed I suspect Obama would still have his job.
AB
awww, blockquote doesnt work properly
Steeplejack
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
Cojones!
slag
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
Until tomorrow. When we find out that Valerie Jarrett once called a Republican an asshole.
SGEW
@General Winfield Stuck:
Hey, I see a windmill, I’m a gonna tilt at it! ;| I’m sorry if I overreacted, but I’ve been on a bit of a “Things Are Not As Crazy As the Internet Would Make Them Appear To Be!” kick recently.
And calming down is always excellent advice: as to th’ liquor, well . . . it’s a bit early in my time zone, but the recommendation is always appreciated.
SGEW + 0 (yet)
Polish the Guillotines
@Bill E Pilgrim:
No, they play by the rules that say you have to make the effort to be bipartisan.
The problem on the left flank is that this is seen as somehow capitulating or being Charlie Brown to the GOP’s Lucy. But that’s a serious mis-read of Obama’s intentions, in my opinion.
If there’s one thing that seems to survive in this country, it’s a sense of fair-play — even when things are DEFCON 4 in the crazy department. And that’s why the strategy has a shot at paying off: Most reasonable people (and that’s most people in this country) see Obama extending the olive branch while the Republicans continually swat it away.
So now, for example, you’ve got Gibbs telling the press directly that Republicans have walked away from the debate.
That’s clearly setting the table for a position that amounts to “We really made an effort to be bi-partisan, but the Republicans aren’t bargaining in good faith. So, we must go it alone if we’re going to get the job done.”
Side note: Obama may have been born in Hawaii, but he was raised by mid-westerners. Fairness and common courtesy are part of the package. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this guy’s Ike, not Kennedy or Carter.
HyperIon
@WereBear: And lives to fight another day.
I’m clear on the “lives” but am wondering when the “fight another day” part is going to happen.
Bill E Pilgrim
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
I’m not following the logic here. So anything the extremists can come up with, which we admit is pure nonsense not worthy of attention, then becomes worthy of attention as long as they shout it long and loud enough?
You say it’s “taking a bullet from Barney Fife’s gun” but how is that? My whole point here is that the extremists are utterly disingenuous about this notion “just get him to resign and we’ll say okay then, that’s good”. They do no such thing, they’re just crowing about it all the harder.
I mean if you think what they say is meaningless, that’s fine. But the fact that what they say just got someone fired pretty much proves, by the firing itself, that’s it not.
It’s meaningless drivel until the person it’s aimed at takes it seriously and acts on it. Then, it’s power.
someguy
There are some truths you just can’t say, and hold a public job. One apparently is that Bush could have prevented 9/11 and that he knew an attack was coming. Another is that white people are generally racist, and tend to ship their pollution into minority areas. Another is that Republicans are all assholes.
That Jones was fired doesn’t make these things untrue; it just means you aren’t allowed to speak them out loud.
I guess it’s another victory for truth, justice and the American Way. Or the American Way, anyhow.
AJStrata
JC,
I agree with you, Jones was probably a bit too far left to be an asset to the administration. They really don’t need a lot of easy lightening rods like him sullying their desired reputation to be working for all Americans. Jones is an idealistic fool, way too easy to get traction out of (rightfully so).
We don’t need to replace the free market America with some marxist/socialist version. As always, we need curbs on greed, criminal levels of fiduciary risk, corruption, criminal incompetence and predatory actions that can arise in any capitalistic approach (and any approach for that matter).
It is naive to think capitalism is the root of all these human shortcomings when they have been demonstrated in all forms of government. It is an insult to the intelligence of most people to lay these criminal acts on one ideology and pretend all others are immune.
Jones displayed this kind of arrogant ignorance openly. He was doomed by his own words.
WereBear
@HyperIon:
President Obama is no George Bush, that’s for certain. On the bad days, that’s enough for me.
On good days, I remember we are 8 months in, and he’s already averted another Great Depression. And passed the Lily Ledbetter act. Cash for Clunkers worked so well he got the right wing complaining about how well something was working!
That’s some heavy mojo. IMHO.
Mr Furious
Beck and the fringe are firing blanks, and they have an endless supply. Sacrificing Jones only creates a pause while they reload.
Lola
@Rey:
I’m with Rey. This was a response from the rightwingers and Glenn Beck. Sure they got Van Jones, but Glenn Beck is losing the war.
Ben Nelson coming out in support of the trigger public option is good news. Here is my prediction: health care passes out of the Senate with a trigger public option. It goes to reconciliation with the House where the WH and the House can reinstate a real public option. It goes back to the Senate and only needs 50 votes.
We are in a better position now with health care than we were a week ago.
Van Jones will do great work on the outside of the administration. Let the wingnuts celebrate their small victory. They are a clueless bunch. We don’t have to turn every small victory of Republicans into something much bigger than it really is. How many of us even thought of Van Jones before a week ago?
Lola
@AB:
Funny because when you think of it, we got Sarah Palin to resign.
Paul L.
Looks like Van Jones got “swiftboated”.
Funny that now all the progressives (Crooks and Liars) who condemned the birthers are now defending a truther.
El Tiburon
Cole,
On Sept. 4 you wrote:
If Van Jones is a truther, it is time for him to exit stage left.
How is this you NOT you letting the wingnuts frame the debate?
You continue:
I have a hard time determining what is fauxtrage and what is legit these days, the right is throwing so much nonsense, but it sure seems like there is evidence he was somehow involved in the movement. Apologies won’t cut it if that is the case.
Sorry, that is typical righwing-speak: An accuasation has been made, don’t know if it’s true, but looks like it. Nothing Jones can do about it – HE MUST GET QUIT!
Then finally:
And, as usual, it is looking like it is all nonsense
Sorry, you just got played. Again. So I’ll ask again: so what if the cat was mixed up in some ‘Truther’ stuff? How does that automatically prevent him from serving in BHO’s administration? Who says? The rightwing. That’s who.
Wasn’t too long ago a Presidential candidate would have been shot down for admitting to using cocaine or inhaling.
It’s so awesome that the only thing that can make a Republican quit is chasing underage boys. But for Democrats just the hint of being associated with the ‘Truthers” (EGADS!!!) is enough to give him the boot.
El Tiburon
Cole,
On Sept. 4 you wrote:
El Tiburon
Cole,
On Sept. 4 you wrote:
El Tiburon
Cole,
On Sept. 4 you wrote:
El Tiburon
Cole,
On Sept. 4 you wrote:
bedtimeforbonzo
“I expect the next post on this blog to be ‘If Only Hillary Were President, We’ve all Have Health Care and a Pony’.”
I supported Hillary in the primaries, but I am kind of glad she ended up where she did, arguably the second most high-profile spot in the government.
If she were President, it’s painfully clear that the right — and not just the wing nuts — would be taking her apart more viciously than they are doing to President Obama or they did to President Clinton. I lost whatever morsel of respect I had for Republicans.
—
I think President Obama has made two big mistakes. First, he should have kept the focus on improving the economy, and then the deficit, before tackling health care. Second, he should have realized playing the bipartisan pattycake game he thought he could was a fool’s errand.
—
BoB: I think you should step back and consider that Beck is nothing more than a showman, an astute one in that he has found a niche as to how to get rich. But, c’mon, he’s a real-life Howard Beal, only not as smart and nowhere near as populist.
bedtimeforbonzo
Adding to the Beal comparison, I ask: How many times does one have to watch Beck cry and spew bile to realize you are watching someone who is unhinged or certainly coming unhinged — i.e., more than just little unstable.
HyperIon
@WereBear: President Obama is no George Bush, that’s for certain. On the bad days, that’s enough for me.
“Obama is better than Bush” is not enough for me.
IMO John McCain is better than Bush.
Barely but that’s what comes from setting the bar so low.
Soylent Green
The only thing that can save us now is the Rapture.
jaquestraw
Why is Obama fronting like he don’t support Van Jones views when everyone knows he does.He aint fooling nobody anymore thanks to Glenn Beck we all have much better understanding of how he thinks and operates.I guess transparency is a liability.If you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao you aint gonna make it with anyone anyhow.
Midnight Marauder
@jaquestraw:
Why is Obama fronting like he don’t support Van Jones views when everyone knows he does.He aint fooling nobody anymore thanks to Glenn Beck we all have much better understanding of how he thinks and operates.I guess transparency is a liability.If you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao you aint gonna make it with anyone anyhow.
Weak troll is exceptionally weak today.
jaquestraw
@ Midnight Marauder
ouch a flakey troll comment
Hart Williams
Democrats and Republicans share only two salient features in common in my experience: they both fight Democrats all the time and would never make common cause with one.
Republicans defend war criminals.
Democrats only defend perfect and spotless Democrats, and not even then, generally.
These comments are the living proof of that:
The absurd notion that unless we are “perfect” in terms of our hypocrisy we can’t attack the worst hypocrites on the planet — the treasonous Rethuglikkkans — is offered as some idiotic excuse. Since WHEN has anybody ever been perfect, and since WHEN even IF they were, would that “win” the debate?
Never.
The Rethugs don’t let inconsistency bug them. Why Van Jones called the Republicans “assholes”! GASP!!!!
But Dick Cheney tells Pat Leahy to “go fuck yourself” on the floor of the US Senate and no one says a meaningful word. Oh, we “tch tch” but it bothered them not a gnat’s wingwind in their forward progress. There’s a goddam genius comment up there that I wish I’d come up with, from ‘General Winfield Stuck’ (if that IS his real name):
Hart Williams
hey mod, would you fix my blockquote? thx
jaquestraw
Yeah and what about Pelosi fronting like she was never briefed on waterboarding.
Hart Williams
Guess not. You used to be able to fix your posts, AND didn’t have all the bizarro world XHTML tags. Oh well.
Hunter Gathers
Jones got caught calling Republicans (White People) assholes while being black.
Black people cannot say anything detrimental about pretty much anyone without facing a shitstorm. The media grabs on to these ‘controversies’, never letting go. Remember the Gates incident?
It’s the way the culture is. Obama and Jones understand this. There is certain shit black people cannot do, even when the president is black himself. One of them is calling people assholes. Especially calling the GOP assholes. Last time I checked, the GOP is nothing BUT white people. He called white people assholes. And I agree. White people are assholes. We suck.
Joe Buck
Jones isn’t a truther as far as I can tell. He signed a truther petition back in 2004, and says it was a mistake.
He headed up Color Of Change, the organization that’s on track to make Glenn Beck go broke. That’s his real offense. Obama should have backed him up, and counterattacked, saying that Jones could resign if all the crazy Republicans in public life resign.