Joe Klein finds the fund-raising letter that motivated that “soft-spoken” winger to ask his Congressman his gentle question.
Everyone should read the entirety of the James Fallows piece John linked to, especially for this:
“Out of context” and “false” are useful caveats. But why is the story about Ezekiel Emanuel being on the hot seat in the first place — and not about the campaign of flat lies by McCaughey, Bachman, Palin, and LaRouche? Why are real newspapers quoting what they say any more? (Interestingly, LaRouche’s claims rarely get NYT coverage. In in this case, he is apparently “legitimized” by … McCaughey.) If I start a campaign of lies against somebody and get Soupy Sales plus Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme to agree with me, can I expect them to be regularly publicized in the mainstream press?
And Steve Pearlstein lights into Michael Steele:
After reading his broadside, one is left wondering exactly what health reform plan Steele thought he was attacking. At one point, Steele claims that Democrats would prevent Americans from keeping their doctors or an insurance plan they like. Later, he warns that government will soon be setting caps on how many heart surgeries could be performed in the United States each year. Where is he getting this stuff? Has the chairman of the Republican Party somehow gotten hold of a top-secret plan for a government takeover of the health-care system that GOP operatives snatched during a break-in at Democratic National Committee headquarters?
If all that sounds like a spurious and unsubstantiated allegation, it is. And it fits right in with the cynical lies, distortions and political scare tactics that Steele and other Republicans have used to poison the national debate over health reform.
Have you no shame, sir, have you no shame?
It feels good to be able to cite three establishment media sources talking sense in a single day. Pearlstein and Klein will continue to wank — Klein, in particular will never kick the “yes, Republicans are completely insane, but Democrats aren’t perfect either, some of them like unions too much” habit.
But maybe there’s a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel for our sad sack establishment media. Maybe they’re starting to realize that (1) Republicans have no political power, (2) the teabaggers don’t buy or read their publications anyway, and (3) there might be some value in being honest sometimes. Feel free to ask me “who’s being naive, Doug?”
Gus
Who says the Republicans have no political power? From a weak position they’re managing to derail health care.
Ailuridae
Every time I catch a great Pearlstein column I have a very different reaction than most:
Why is the only show on MSNBC I have ever seen him on is “morning Joe”? And why, when he writes one of these “speaks truth to power” columns is he never on MJ the next day. Countdown and Maddow have both struggled mightily to articulate the need for health care reform and the case is being made consistently by Pearlstein. MSNBC and WaPo have an almost too comfortable relationship – so why no (or more accurately so little) Steve Pearlstein?
Also if you gave me 100 tries to spell his last name I think I would drop the ‘a’ every time.
Midnight Marauder
and (3) there might be some value in being honest sometimes.
I really think there might be something to this. It will definitely be something to watch as the pendulum swings back the other way, post-August recess.
And yes, I think the pendulum (being positive momentum and constructive progress on legitimate HCR) will swing back the other way in due time.
I’m guess I’m right next to you on The Naive Express, Doug.
Beeb
I love bedtime stories. Now tell us another fable, please and thank you.
Corner Stone
who’s being naive, Doug?
SiubhanDuinne
@ DougJ: I don’t think you’re being naïve. I also take (cautious) optimism from these three examples. Now how can we get more? I know! Let’s tell them, and their bosses, that we like honesty and sense and the commitment of journalism. Make sure they know that we’re actually paying attention to what they write, and we notice when they do things right (as well as when they’re tools), and we appreciate and applaud it.
Might not make a difference, but hey, it couldn’t hurt.
maye
All this could have been avoided if the White House had headed into August with a media strategy. That’s the real shame here. They need some fresh thinking over in that communications shop. Hey Gibbs – bring in some people off the bench.
arguingwithsignposts
I am amazed that I actually see the term “lies” being used here. Most village pundits will use “prevarications,” “distortions,” “fabrications,” or any other synonym, without coming out and saying they are lying. Maybe that’s a step in the right direction.
Martin
Doug, which do you think better pays the bills?
beltane
Maybe, just maybe, it is dawning on them that the GOP is getting their talking points from the Lyndon LaRouche cult, which means the Republican party no longer inhabits the media’s cozy center-right safety zone.
No one likes having actual crazy people at the cocktail party; they are likely to crap on the floor or molest the dog.
Anne Laurie
No, this really is good news, in a small way. A certain part of the Reliably Repugnant ‘MSM’ — people like Klein, David Frum and the Politico horserace touts — are less interested in actual positions than they are in backing winners. When these guys switch from ‘of course the Dems will never pass HCR’ to ‘gosh, the anti-HCR people are making themselves look like loons, and also, possibly not 100% truthful using certain metrics’, it’s like watching the remoras abandon the Great White for a new host. Of course we’d be better off without the remoras in the first place, but as arbiters of the health of their victims, parasites are not a bad indicator.
Ash Can
I’d like to think that the over-the-top insanity of the anti-HC-reformers is getting some traction in the press. Also, the fact that the GOP is tying itself into knots trying to demonize government involvement in health care funding while appearing supportive of Medicare has got to be making a few heads spin.
The antics of the GOP and the antis have given the media folks plenty to write about and talk about. How many of them are starting to lose patience with the nonsense remains to be seen, though. It would certainly be entertaining to watch the GOP scramble for a new narrative if substantial portions of the news media were to really start calling bullshit on them.
Fulcanelli
Don’t fetch the stick DougJ, this is an evil trick borderline and narcissistic personalities do. They set you up with the sensible warm fuzzy stuff to gain your confidence and let your guard down then slip in the long knife from the back, twixt your ribs.
You’ll be howling about how they’re sub-human, fascist child touchers within a few days. Don’t say I dint warn ya.
And Steele is nothing more than Stepin Fetchit in a $2500 suit and dome wax.
wasabi gasp
ruby slippers
cleek
too much. too little. too late.
the Dems lost. they’ll pass some half-assed piece of shit bill just to say they passed it. the country will be like “hey, WTF, we thought you were going make things better for us, not for Big Pharma/HMO”; the GOP base will shout “lying works! what’s next on Obama’s agenda? Bring. It. On. !” the media will be all like “Obama lost. we don’t know how it could have happened, do you know, Mr Kristol?”
this fucking country is fucking fucked,
DougJ
too much. too little. too late.
Can’t go wrong with classic soul lyrics.
Will
Don’t get your hopes up. These “centrist” f*ckers will shift the other way the minute they smell a winner on the Right.
JK
Who’s being naive, Doug?
“It feels good to be able to cite three establishment media sources talking sense in a single day.” Enjoy that feeling while it lasts, because the next time you’ll be able to do this will be when Hell freezes over.
Yes, congratulations are owed to Pearlstein, Fallows, and Klein, but in the world of 24 hour cable news, the intellectually dishonest Sunday shows, the he said / she said philosophy of 90% of the Washington Press Corps, the remarks of Pearlstein, Fallows, and Klein will be ignored by their colleagues in the MSM. The MSM contains the largest collection of bed wetters and nail biters ever assembled.
Svensker
And Steve Pearlstein lights into Michael Steele
Steele was on Fox this morning LYING about the “VA Death Book”. That it was an Obama program that was all about getting veterans to kill themselves.
Isn’t it strange and really fucked up when the HEAD of a major national political party goes on TV and flat out LIES about something? Not spinning, not deflecting, not bending the nuance, not insinuating, but just flat out lying?
My son lives in Canada and his friends refuse to believe him when he tells them some of the stuff the wingnuts do and say. He’s always asking me to send him links so he can prove to his pals in Canukistan that the Repukes really are that crazy.
Fulcanelli
“Can’t go wrong with classic soul lyrics.”
@DougJ: You mean like the Temptations, DougJ?
Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don’t tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof
I got yer back, dood…
asiangrrlMN
Ok. I know this is hard to believe, but I’m actually going to agree with DougJ that this represents itty-bitty-kitteh committee type of progress. A week ago, no one was calling the GOP on their bullshit. Now, people are, albeit tepidly, starting to murmur (by people, I mean the ‘liberal media’ of course).
Will it matter in the end? Don’t know. What I do know is that I will take any voices questioning the status quo because it might actually lead to real change (in a hundred years or so).
General Winfield Stuck
I have noticed some pushback lately from some of the media toward the RWNM. Of course,, it took talk of Death Panels, the presnit ain’t Murrikin, screaming teabaggers with assault rifles at dem pol meetings, to get their attention that maybe these folks are dangerous nutbugs, and don’t really have a positive vibe on the body politic.
But something I’ve said I think is true for a long time, is that there really are two standards for media treatment of dems and repubs. There are several reasons for this, but the main one to me is that since most bobbleheads are dems and various degrees liberal, they feel entitled to hold dems to a higher standard and feel more free to criticize for the smallest infraction of whatever. Things they wouldn’t bother to with repubs. It is kind of like a family always jabbing one another in ways they wouldn’t with strangers.
Fulcanelli
I would rather tell seven lies than make one explanation – Mark Twain
Norman Rogers
It has never made any sense to me as a former businessman to “derail” health care reform.
I would ask anyone who is against meaningful reform–have you never had to make payroll? Anyone who has grappled with the cost of doing business can tell you this–if you want to hang on to valuable employees, you have to pay them, you have to cover their health insurance, and you even have to treat them like human beings (involuntary shudder).
Want to see business really take off? Want to see some non-stimulus related growth in the economy? Reform health care, save small to mid-sized businessmen a ton of money, and watch this economy catch fire and start to grow.
How man robber barons are there nowadays? Do they all put on dirty shirts and go stand outside these events? Or are they paid by robber barons to do this?
Health care reform is a necessary adjustment and correction to our capitalist system–failure to make that clear to the howling hoi polloi means the playing field stays tilted and business growth is stifled. Now, about that deficit…
mcc
Actually I think LaRouche not being quoted in the papers is almost a problem, because they are quoting people who are parroting LaRouche without making the parentage of the quotes clear. Since the second-hand LaRouche quotes are coming from more than one person his creates the impression of the ideas coming not from a specific thinker but rather from the “grassroots”.
Martin
Actually, it took UPS pulling all advertising from Fox due to Glenn Beck, and Walmart (along with 2 dozen others) pulling their ads from his show.
Fox demonstrated that there might be consequences to all of this wingnuttery – clearly not in ratings, but in advertisers. Fox is willing to walk closer to that line than any of the other major names because of their audience, but I think you’re seeing the other players deciding to go nowhere near and are now backing away.
burnspbesq
@Norman Rogers:
Well said, sir. Health care reform is a competitiveness issue.
Why anyone would manufacture anything in the United States that can be manufactured in Canada is entirely beyond me. In Canuckistan you have an educated, skilled, English-speaking (well, sort of) work force, a lower corporate income tax rate, no customs duties on exports to the US, and no health insurance costs on your P&L. That’s a venti cup of win.
Norman Rogers
@mcc: Actually, that’s a tried and true “LaRouche” tactic, best personified by the clowns who stand at intersections and try to hand out literature. They mask and deny their affiliation, but anyone in the know can see the taint of it. I think the Moonies and the people who follow Phish operate the same way, if I’m not mistaken.
It may be hard to believe, but there was a time when people had to accept his money for ads and the like. Does anyone remember his TV spots from the ’80 campaign? The LaRouche people are still nutty after all of these years…
Fulcanelli
@Norman Rogers: I am currently a small businessman and I don’t understand it either. Between my $135 per week and my former employer’s contribution my health insurance at my last salaried job cost us both over $950 per month. That’s almost $11500 per year for a 2 adults and 2 kids. And I almost never used it. Think my health insurance provider made a few bucks off me? I can’t afford health insurance on my own for me and my wife.
My premiums went up and so did my co-pays and deductibles every single year. No one will ever convince me that the same organization that runs medicare for a fraction of the cost overhead my last health insurance provider gobbled out of my premiums as profit won’t be able to provide a decent health insurance financing system for less money. And not to mention that a public option will be insuring younger subscribers that file far fewer claims. And many small businesses will have the health coverage cost monkey off their back. Hello, growth? Profit? Tax revenue? Jobs?
I was in the automotive dealership business for 20 years. I watched foreign car companies build new assembly and other kinds of plants just over the line in Canada simply because of health care costs in the US. I talked with company executives about this personally. This cost the US thousands of jobs in addition to state and federal corporate and personal income tax revenue. Tell me again why the pro-business GOP fluffers aren’t in favor of health insurance reform? Because they haven’t been waterboarded yet.
Norman Rogers
@burnspbesq: You have it in Ireland as well. Ireland could sure use the business. If someone could get my fellow Irishmen to put down the bottle, they’d whip England’s ass.
I believe if there was a Republican out there who could give voice to the intelligence of marrying smart reform with a pro-business agenda, you could find common ground with even some of the purists on the liberal side. I cannot go as far as a public option, but I can go as far as doing whatever it takes to get everyone under some sort of umbrella. I’m nuts, of course, but I’m less nuts than Chuck Grassley. But, then again, who isn’t?
area man
@Norman Rogers:
This, +1, request for subscription to your newsletter, whatever the current euphemism is for recognizing the well and truly put.
The dampening effect of this utterly broken health care system on our economy, our ingenuity, our very domestic tranquility cannot be underestimated. That this simple point goes largely unremarked upon in favour of coverage of faux populi frothings about ‘gummint free medicare!’ and the maunderings of the very concerned and omnipresent Chuck Grassley (R-Boughtandpaidfor), well, that’s all the reason I need to drink heavily and despair.
Luckily for me, my neighbors will be there when my liver gives out. Coburn Care, bitchez!
Rosali
@Fulcanelli:
It’s over.
Too much, too little, too late to ever try again
Too much, too little, too late, let’s end it being friends
Norman Rogers
@Fulcanelli: If a Republican could get you health care reform, you’d consider voting Republican again. That no one is trying to help you or trying to win your vote or support–that’s a travesty. It’s a lost opportunity. You go out, you find Americans who need help, and you craft public policy to make their lives better. Yes, small government is better, but the smarter application of small government principles, while still helping Americans help themselves, is how you make that happen. I’m all for it. Makes me a pariah, but there it is.
I’ve said this in as many different ways as possible–Republicans should go moderate, consider supporting health care reform, come out and say, no more discrimination against gays and lesbians, no more “culture” war, and advocate for the legalization of small amounts of pot, and I do believe more than a few people might consider voting Republican again. Do you know what they call a Rockefeller Republican these days? They call him a DFH, and I wince at that.
Sadly, the idea of going to the left of the now “Blue Dog” dominanted Democrat Party isn’t a winner with my peeps.
ruemara
@cleek:
I am so fucking tired of that shit. This fails, it’s not the nuts, the GOP or Obama, it’s the weak ass whining, moaning and bitching from the the left. I used to be one until I got to witness how ‘the left’ acts when they have the barest modicum of power and someone even marginally on their side in the driver’s seat. I feel like I should apologize to Obama for voting for him. I knew the right would be lobbing fireballs, but I didn’t know the other side would be shooting him in the back all the way through. GWB had a cake walk from all comers compared to the nonsense Obama get’s hit with.
Brian J
Maybe I’m being too friendly to The Times, but I don’t see what is so bad about Rutenberg’s article. I thought it was pretty obvious that the point was the Dr. Emmanuel is a serious guy who has stepped into some difficult debates, only to find himself having to defend his work against morons and liars. I don’t see the equivalency in bringing them up, since they are the goons that are unfortunately making his life difficult. Aside from writing, “she’s a stupid, vile whore!” or something similar, what else do you want them to do?
Midnight Marauder
@Brian J:
I thought it was pretty obvious that the point was the Dr. Emmanuel is a serious guy who has
steppedbeen dragged repeatedly into some difficult debates, only to find himself having to defend his work against morons and liars and Sarah Palin.Fixed that for you.
I think the biggest issue a lot of people have with the article is the framing of it in the first place. The quote that Doug references from Fallows’ article in spot on:
But why is the story about Ezekiel Emanuel being on the hot seat in the first place—and not about the campaign of flat lies by McCaughey, Bachman, Palin, and LaRouche? Why are real newspapers quoting what they say any more?
Martin
What does bringing them up add to our understanding of the situation? The goons have no power to make his life difficult – only the media giving the goons credibility can do that. If they’re full of shit, why acknowledge them at all?
General Winfield Stuck
@ruemara:
I want to associate myself with your comment.
tc125231
@Norman Rogers: And people think DougJ is naive? Gee whiz.
I sure am glad nobody is putting the additives in MY food that you appear to be taking.
Ailuridae
@Fulcanelli:
My premiums went up and so did my co-pays and deductibles every single year. No one will ever convince me that the same organization that runs medicare for a fraction of the cost overhead my last health insurance provider gobbled out of my premiums as profit won’t be able to provide a decent health insurance financing system for less money. And not to mention that a public option will be insuring younger subscribers that file far fewer claims. And many small businesses will have the health coverage cost monkey off their back. Hello, growth? Profit? Tax revenue? Jobs?
This is unassailable reasoning and the right has no answer to it. Now why, exactly, isn’t the Democratic party pushing this line?
tc125231
@General Winfield Stuck: Not me. I am not a big fan of the left –they are whiny. However,, Obama’s flirtation with mediocrity is entirely of his own doing.
Sure he’s a hundred times better than bush –but that’s like saying a chihuahua is 100 times bigger than a flea.
Ailuridae
@Norman Rogers:
I’ve said this in as many different ways as possible—Republicans should go moderate, consider supporting health care reform, come out and say, no more discrimination against gays and lesbians, no more “culture” war, and advocate for the legalization of small amounts of pot, and I do believe more than a few people might consider voting Republican again. Do you know what they call a Rockefeller Republican these days? They call him a DFH, and I wince at that
Barack Obama is basically a Rockefeller Republican with the inevitable push of 40 years of progress mixed in. And basically you are arguing that the Republican Party become a center-right party rather than a party four klicks past the furthest right mainstream party in any other industrialized nation? We already have that center-right party in the Democrats. I would love to see the poles reset to center-right and center or center-left and center-right ideally but where does that leave the 22-24% of Americans (many of whom vote in higher numbers) that thing Armageddon will happen in any given year?
General Winfield Stuck
What does this nonsense even mean. Ruemara, I double down on my previous comment.
Ailuridae
@Brian J:
Did you read the Fallows piece on the Times article? He argues a lot more effectively what the problem is – the people who are critizing Zeke are demonstrably lying and the Times piece did a classic “he said, she said” instead of pointing out that one side was clearly incorrect. That’s not reporting, its taking fucking dictation.
Fulcanelli
@Norman Rogers: The GOP base is so heavily invested in the “culture war”, if you took it away it would be like cutting the tug of war rope they’ve had a death grip on since Dylan went electric. They would careen backwards off the earth into the sun and never be seen again. Hmmmm…
This is the result of the GOP’s willingness since Nixon to offer the Manson Family of America’s cultural malcontents a ride to the desert for a party to swell their ranks and win elections. Well, it did work, except now only the Family is left and the sane ones are dead, or just got the hell out of dodge.
And we’re supposed to act like they’re jes’ folks, while they boil our rabbit and walk around with assault rifles. Methinks your abandoning the culture war idea’s got no legs, my friend. But your other ideas are interesting…
flounder
I read somewhere, Firedoglake perhaps (too tired to look it up now), that the e-mail Joe Klein is mad about was sent out by that Michelle Benard lady that is on MSNBC like 4 times a day.
The FDL jist was Klein has compartmentalized the lying and all that into a phenomenon that is only a product of FOX, Drudge, Limbaugh. The fact that it goes over his head that just as much wankery comes from his buddies Joe Scar and CMatt just shows you he is and will always be wanking toughly.
He wrote a blog post the other day where he was absolutely amazed that some Swedish Paper was reporting on conspiracy theories about the IDL harvesting the organs of Palestinians–have they no shame? I wrote on his post (as Pafro, cuz I screwed up the Flounder name and can’t log into it over there) that there isn’t a lot different between the Swedish papers actions and his employer Time deciding that Sotomayor smear merchant Jeff Rosen was the best person to reward with an op/ed about Sotomayor.
Roger Moore
@Anne Laurie:
OB Nit: remoras are not parasites. They hitch rides from larger animals, but they don’t do any active damage, and there’s some indication that they provide benefits for the species that give them rides. You may be thinking of lamprey.
Mr Furious
@JK:
No, JK, the Democratic Senate Caucus takes that prize (per capita).
randiego
Ted Kennedy, RIP
Joshua Norton
OT – Ted Kennedy died.
The Other Steve
Senator Kennedy has passed away.
mai naem
Ted Kennedy – RIP.
I can’t believe he passes away at this time. How awfully ironic.
SiubhanDuinne
OT but just head that Senator Kennedy has died.
SHIT
And RIP.
Mr Furious
DougJ, since the example John mentioned earlier and Fallows mentions in his piece both concern front page New York Fucking Times stories that do nothing but either carry or further muddy water for the Right, I’m not sure what truth and pushback there is to be excited about.
Naive it is.
Mr Furious
RIP indeed. Perhaps some Dems will strap on a pair and get this shit done in tribute to The Lion
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
Ted Kennedy’s dead.
JK
While CNN and MSNBC are in breaking news mode at 1:30am EDT covering Ted Kennedy’s death, Fox News Channel was rebroadcasting airhead and Greta Van Susteren’s interview with the swine John McCain. They just switched to coverage of Ted Kennedy. I’d guess, MSNBC and CNN had Fox beat by about 5 or 6 minutes.
It must have broken the hearts of the execs of Fox to break away from asshole John McCain to cover Kennedy’s death.
General Winfield Stuck
OH man, so sad. A liberal lion legend is gone. I hate to say it, but will, cause it was this great mans life mission, but dem Senator’s do your duty, and if you can;t vote for health care reform because it’s needed and the right thing, do it for your colleague who has made so many lives better from a life well lived. RIP Teddy.
mai naem
@Mr Furious: Don’t mean to already sound political about it but Kent Conrad had already been assuming Kennedy was not going to be around when he said the Dems couldn’t come up with the 60 votes. This just strengthens the Brainless Blue Dogs’ hand.
SiubhanDuinne
@ mai naem
Yes, this is a bitter irony that he would pass right now in the midst of this epic health care debate. If all these GOP senators who claim such bipartisan love for him have an iota of decency in their souls, they will do the right thing in his memory and his honour.
Not that I expect that to happen. Stand by for a week or more of mealy-mouthed platitudes followed by the same lying and intransigence they’ve demonstrated all along.
So sad for the family. Two great losses in as many weeks. At least alone of his brothers he got to live a full life.
General Winfield Stuck
@mai naem:
What it means is the ability for dems to do this by regular order is no longer possible. Which it never was with Nelson and a few other Blue Dog turds. It will have to be with RP, or nothing. In a way it takes away a GOP talking point, and neuters the BD’s/ I sorta think.
JK
#1 message today from Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, O’Reilly, and Dobbs will be that the evil Democrats are going to exploit Ted Kennedy’s death to get a healthcare bill passed.
Wonk Hussein
@General Winfield Stuck:
I don’t think any Dems could get away with voting against a Health Care reform bill with Teddy’s name on it. And if they’re smart, the bill will have his name on it.
Anyone else agree?
Shit. I was in diapers for JKF, barely remember RFK, so Teddy was “my” Kennedy. This sucks.
Without Teddy’s endorsement, I don’t think we’d have a President Obama.
Mike P
@mai naem:
There is going to be a lot of awfully strong sentiment on the left to get this done now, though, as this was one of TK’s life missions. Also, let’s not forget how central Ted was to Obama’s campaign. If anything would stiffen up Obama, I’d would think it would have to be this.
mai naem
@General Winfield Stuck:
It may be so but I would be willing to bet that a good part of the senate knew he was very very ill so that if they could drag it out it was certain the Dems couldn’t do it with the 60 votes. The healthcare debate has me really demoralized about this country, the Dems and the Repubs. I think every single senator and congress critter should be forced to attend a RAM event. How can they live with themselves?
mai naem
@JK:
Not its not, today’s message is going to be Ted Kennedy, Chappaquidick and the woman who died at Chappaquidick.
General Winfield Stuck
@mai naem:
I don’t plan to get demoralized over the debate. That is energy wasted. There is plenty of time for that when there actually is a bill to debate, and things start to line up of going this way or that.
JK
@mai naem:
I think the wingnuts are skillful enough that they can pivot back and forth between the two narratives.
General Winfield Stuck
@JK:
You want to read some early nasty commenting, go to the WSJ story on Ted’s passing. Ugly to the core.
JK
@General Winfield Stuck:
There are enough gutless Democratic pussies in the House and Senate that I’ve lost my fath in the ability of these assholes to pass any meaningful health care legislation.
General Winfield Stuck
@JK:
Yes, yes, we know JK. and you might be right in the end. But you may also be wrong. Nobody knows right now.
JK
@General Winfield Stuck:
By the time the listeners of Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, and Rush Limbaugh start talking, the comments on the WSJ will look very tame.
SiubhanDuinne
@ mai naem
I expect you’re right, but I must say I was surprised — pleasantly so — in july when there was hardly a mention of Chappaquiddick at the time of the 40th anniversary. But there’s plenty of time to trash his memory AND throw a whole set of new political accusations at Obama, all before the funeral plans are announced.
General Winfield Stuck
@JK:
The Hyenas are hungry, ALL of them.
SiubhanDuinne
I should have said, plenty of time for the wingnuts to do both before the funeral plans are announcced. Damn no preview. Also damn being awake at 2:00 am. Also damn this watery stuff that keeps coming out of my eyes and keeping me from seeing the screen clearly.
Indylib
RIP Ted Kennedy
Seems like this might change the media narrative on HCR for at least a few days. Less teabagger ignorance coverage, more press for how healthcare was Teddy’s mission and some positive language used in conjunction with the dreaded “L word”.
JK
@General Winfield Stuck:
With each passing day, it feels as if Republicans hold majorities in both the Senate and House. The bed wetters and nail biters in the Washington Press Corps are so afraid of being called socialists that they’re uncritically reporting all the bullshit Republican talking points.
Despite Doug’s feelings about Pearlstein, Fallows, and Klein they’re vastly outnumbered by armies of gutless pussies who’ll always grovel at the feet of Republican politicians.
freelancer
@JK:
Jesus,
Shorter WSJ commenters:
Fulcanelli
This is sad. Such a life, lived so well. RIP Teddy.
It’s my understanding that Dem Mass. Governor Deval Patrick will have to pick a successor in a situation like this and his pick will have to be signed off on by the Senate (like that meal worm Roland Burris), no?
If the R’s fuck around with Ted Kennedy’s successors’ confirmation for 6 months to fuck up a health care vote I’m buying a sniper rifle.
/need sleep
Anne Laurie
@JK:
And so the Democrats better godsdamned well SHOULD, already.
I’m seriously thinking about stepping away from the political blogs for a few days, because I don’t wanna know how low the gleeful trolls are gonna sink in their haste to piss on his grave. We have the general outlines, of course, but whenever I think “That’s it, there’s no depravity or meanness of spirit that can surprise me now — bingo, some pussbag finds a way.
JK
@Indylib:
I want to believe you, but I can just hear Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, Dobbs, and O’Reilly warning their listeners that Democrats are going to tug at the nation’s heartstrings over Ted Kennedy’s death to pass a health care bill that is horrible for America.
freelancer
@Anne Laurie:
Anne,
What time zone are you in?
Also, please take a minute to expand that into a couple of graphs and please, front page that SOB.
General Winfield Stuck
Well, heading off to sand land. With any luck, I’ll wake up in Kate Beckinsdale’s bed on Planet Libtard.
Max
@Fulcanelli: No appointment in Mass. There will be a special election in like 5 months. No confirmation needed.
Which is why Ted Kennedy wrote the recent letter asking the state to grant the Gov special dispensation to appoint an interim Senator, who would not run in the special election.
Our vote count is off with his passing, but I think we can still do reconciliation. We’d still need 60 for a filibuster proof vote. I think we still have Snowe from Maine, but we’d need to keep all Dems in line.
Fulcanelli
I really do hope the assholes on right wing talk radio and FOX have a non-stop grand mal seizure 24/7 for the next month over Kennedy’s passing to demonstrate to the non-political public just how fucking depraved they really are.
Fire up the Wurlizer, Rush.
Then you hang these pricks around the GOP’s neck nonstop until 2011.
JK
@General Winfield Stuck: I’ll second that, although Nicole Kidman, Sienna Miller, Gwyneth Paltrow, or Angelina Jolie wouldn’t be bad either.
Indylib
@JK:
Oh, hell, I don’t mean the Faux News rodeo of retards and the rest of the wingnut posse. Hell, they’ll be dancing on Kennedy’s grave if given the least opportunity. I’m just hoping for the kind of coverage that happened when Kennedy endorsed Obama, from MSNBC and CNN and all those other “liberal media” types.
mcc
Observation:
When the right was in power, they wanted to drop bombs on foreign countries. The Republicans called this saving lives. The Democrats called this killing people.
When the left was in power, they wanted to give people health insurance. The Democrats called this saving lives. The Republicans called this killing people.
freelancer
Fuck.
My kingdom for an EDIT button, as a more mindful BJ-er told me. The SOB I was referring to was your post, please, go and run with that. I want to make absolutely clear that just because I’m kind of meh about Teddy, what with being opposed to nepotism and cheerleading for cheerleaders’ sake, that I was referring to him as an SOB.
For the Record, indifference and deference as a matter of respect is completely different than open disdain.
Kennedy was a champion of the 1964 Civil Rights Act whereas John McCain, 19 years after the passage of that legislation, voted against the commemoration and remembrance of Martin Luther King.
Linkmeister
From Boston.com five days ago, in a story about Kennedy’s letter to Governor Patrick and the state legislative leaders:
The 2004 law was put in place to keep Romney from appointing a Republican in Kerry’s seat if Kerry won the Presidential election that year.
Max
Tweety has a scheduled Kennedy Brothers documentary scheduled for Thursday. It’s even more poignant now.
Chris will be beside himself. His democratic alliances show when he talks about the Kennedy’s. I think its a large part of why he likes Obama so much.
JK
@Indylib:
This will be a huge contest to see who has the more powerful megaphone the wingnuts like Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh et al or what’s left of the rational, lucid MSM.
SiubhanDuinne
I second freelancer’s request. This has taken on a life of its own and deserves a FP and dedicated thread. Thanks in advance, Anne Laurie!
JK
@freelancer:
My kingdom for the NY Yankees getting eliminated in the 1st round of the playoffs.
“Kennedy was a champion of the 1964 Civil Rights Act whereas John McCain, 19 years after the passage of that legislation, voted against the commemoration and remembrance of Martin Luther King”
Funny coincidence seeing you reference John McCainiac. While MSNBC and CNN were in breaking news mode, Fox News was re-airing McNasty being interviewed by Sarah Palin’s BFF Greta the Scientologist Van Susteren.
Indylib
@JK:
If we can go 3 frikkin’ days without everybody on MSNBC, except Keith and Rachel, and everyone on CNN blathering on about “some say the Democrats are using Sen. Kennedy’s death to foist healthcare reform on America”, I’ll consider it a success. And three days coverage of “the Liberal Lion of the Senate” should break the coverage of the teabagger ignoramus extravaganza.
ruemara
@General Winfield Stuck:
Like all scoundrels and rumpusrowsers, I am free to associate with.
and regarding the mediocrity quote… I just can’t bang my head on my desk hard enough.
RIP Senator Kennedy. I will now write a most excellent business case for HR 676 and healthcare in general in your honor. Then I will shove it down my most Republican newspaper publisher’s throat with my size 11 heels. Because if Kennedy can fight like an irishman, I can fight like, an irish jamaican.
Max
Forgive the long post, but rereading the speech Ted Kennedy gave in Denver last August brought tears to my eyes.
It’s worth a reread. The last paragraph will get you. Talk about getting fired up and ready to go….
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Caroline.
My fellow Democrats, my fellow Americans, it is so wonderful to be here.
And nothing – nothing is going to keep me away from this special gathering tonight.
I have come here tonight to stand with you to change America, to restore its future, to rise to our best ideals, and to elect Barack Obama president of the United States.
As I look ahead, I am strengthened by family and friendship. So many of you have been with me in the happiest days and the hardest days. Together we have known success and seen setbacks, victory and defeat.
But we have never lost our belief that we are all called to a better country and a newer world. And I pledge to you – I pledge to you that I will be there next January on the floor of the United States Senate when we begin the great test.
Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.
For me this is a season of hope – new hope for a justice and fair prosperity for the many, and not just for the few – new hope.
And this is the cause of my life – new hope that we will break the old gridlock and guarantee that every American – north, south, east, west, young, old – will have decent, quality health care as a fundamental right and not a privilege.
We can meet these challenges with Barack Obama. Yes, we can, and finally, yes, we will.
Barack Obama will close the book on the old politics of race and gender and group against group and straight against gay.
And Barack Obama will be a commander in chief who understands that young Americans in uniform must never be committed to a mistake, but always for a mission worthy of their bravery.
We are told that Barack Obama believes too much in an America of high principle and bold endeavor, but when John Kennedy called of going to the moon, he didn’t say it’s too far to get there. We shouldn’t even try.
Our people answered his call and rose to the challenge, and today an American flag still marks the surface of the moon.
Yes, we are all Americans. This is what we do. We reach the moon. We scale the heights. I know it. I’ve seen it. I’ve lived it. And we can do it again.
There is a new wave of change all around us, and if we set our compass true, we will reach our destination — not merely victory for our party, but renewal for our nation.
And this November the torch will be passed again to a new generation of Americans, so with Barack Obama and for you and for me, our country will be committed to his cause. The work begins anew. The hope rises again. And the dream lives on.
freelancer
For posterity’s sake, I feel a really strong urge to bookmark my prediction:
and the
follow-up:
I have a strong inkling some on the wingnut roster will go with this tin-foil hat shit, and some will, as JK hinted, sidle up to the MSM conventional wisdom of Kennedy being a great statesman and the White House exploiting a man to hammer through some legislation, only to cave mere 3 news cycles later to the crazy tinfoil-hat Obama had ACORN do it bullshit.
BruinKid
That fundraising letter… is it real? It’s supposedly from Michelle Bernard of the Independent Women’s Forum. You know, the woman who has frequently appeared on Hardball and other MSNBC shows as a “political analyst”.
Can anyone say “conflict of interest” if they don’t identify her as fundraising AGAINST Obama’s health care reform?
Wonk Hussein
@Max:
I still haven’t watched “Teddy: In His Own Words” that I DVR’d from HBO in July. I put the Tweety documentary on the schedule after I saw him on Colbert last week.
What melancholy End of Summer this will be.
robertdsc
I hope one day when Kent Conrad is bloviating about co-ops is whining about, Barack Obama or Joe Biden gets in his face and says simply “Ted didn’t want co-ops. You think you know better than Ted did? Shut the fuck up and sit down. We’ve heard enough out of you.”
freelancer
@ruemara:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ncQ2_ipFyE
I was catching up on Psych yesterday and this made my night.
Ailuridae
@Max:
Those aren’t democratic alliances from Matthews. They’re Irish Catholic alliances.
Ailuridae
@Max:
If that brought tears to your eyes The Dream Will Never Die speech will leave you balling.
Here’s Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydHc-ExClqw
Ailuridae
@BruinKid:
Yeah, the letter is real. Time has it on their site and nobody from IWF or Bernard herself is denying it.
http://www.time.com/time/joeklein/more-american-women-are-going-to-die.txt
Michelle Bernard might be soft on the eyes and seem reasonable but she’s an absolute fucking monster across the board when it comes to policy.
DonkeyKong
And may it be said of us, both in dark passages and in bright days, in the words of Tennyson that my brothers quoted and loved, and that have special meaning for me now:
“I am a part of all that I have met
To [Tho] much is taken, much abides
That which we are, we are —
One equal temper of heroic hearts
Strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.”
For me, a few hours ago, this campaign came to an end.
For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die.
Edward Kennedy
-Síocháin shíorai duit-
Anne Laurie
@SiubhanDuinne: @Mr Furious: @Wonk Hussein:
On your heads be it. I was debating the merits of spoiling the early shifts’ breakfast with “bad biography and bitter rhyme”, but at least I saved my superiors the opprobrium.
People forget that “The good die young” originally meant that those who serve others always die before we can spare them. RIP, Senator Kennedy, and may you be memorialized in the best Irish tradition!
Sloth
Did you read the Fallows piece on the Times article? He argues a lot more effectively what the problem is – the people who are critizing Zeke are demonstrably lying and the Times piece did a classic “he said, she said” instead of pointing out that one side was clearly incorrect. That’s not reporting, its taking fucking dictation.
The problem here is the whole notion of being balanced. You can be balanced when both sides are sane. What the right has figured out is that they can simply make shit up and they will get about the same press. This results in Ezekiel Emanuel sharing the stage with Michelle Bachmann on health care, and her getting a “balanced” amount of credibility. Rinse, lather, repeat. Suddenly people believe this bullshit.
The MSM has got to start calling this crap out and stop being played by it.
They fucking this whole country over.
If nothing else, they should realize they are fucking themselves. They live or die on the public trust. And they are pissing away.
I have no issues with them being balanced per se, but when you have one side of an argument that is fruitier than a banana boat, balanced is off the table.
DougJ
I believe if there was a Republican out there who could give voice to the intelligence of marrying smart reform with a pro-business agenda, you could find common ground with even some of the purists on the liberal side.
You don’t live in the United States, right?
Brian J
I doubt anybody will read this, but I’ll try anyway.
At least in that article, what they were saying wasn’t really being treated on the same level as the thoughts of Dr. Emmanuel. It was more along the lines of “Dr. Emmanuel said this, while these guys peed themselves and starting to scream in his direction,” albeit in a more restrained way.
Even if you maintain that he was dragged into the debate, which is only true (and I don’t mean this as an insult or anything) for the last few years, since he was writing about this stuff for a long time before people like Palin and Bachman came on the scene, I don’t see how this changes the tone of the article. He’s a respected doctor and bioethicist whose perfectly sane, even if controversial, beliefs are being distorted by goons and morons. He’s certainly not a household name, but perhaps, unfortunately, once these idiots are done with him, he will be. Of course, at that point, his ability to shape the debate might be severely impaired, but through no fault of his own. So he has to make a decision to salvage his name, when he shouldn’t have to, or risk the chance of having no impact. It’s entirely unfair, and most of the things he can do to fight back only give these people more legitimacy when they deserve anything but. That sounds like a tough spot to me.
Brian J
I disagree. Jim Rutenberg, along with Jackie Calmes, was the author of a good piece a week or so ago that detailed how this death panel nonsense got started. He also described the claims these people were making as “false,” among other things, in the piece Fallows cites.
BC
There is a correlation between the lies being fomented against health care reform – and lies that will be fomented against any other liberal item on the agenda – and the lies that the fundamentalists have been using for decades against evolution. First, a lot of people begin believing the lies and no amount of factual information can shake that belief. Second, the lies are so ludicrous that unless the debunker is aware of where the lies are from they are just flabbergasted that they can even have credence anywhere. Third, debunking the lies takes about 15 minutes for every 1 minute of lying. Fourth, when one lie is debunked there is just another one springing up, sometimes even more wild-assed than the one before. I think this is one of the more felicitous (from a Republican standpoint, not from advancing the debate standpoint) things to emerge from the alliance of the fundamentalist Christian and the GOP.
Laura the Lurker
@Norman Rogers:
The reason I lurk so much is because by the time I get to a post, the discussion is usually mostly over, and everyone’s moved to the next thing. I hate that. But here I go anyway.
I’m right there with you. How did this happen? I’ve become pretty interested lately in what I call political semantics, for lack of a better term. A lot rides on the meaning of words. For example, if a poll says that X number of people say they’re “conservative” and Y say they’re “liberal”, what does that tell you? It depends on what “conservative” and “liberal” mean, and I don’t know what that is any more.
The policies and behaviors of Republicans and self-identified conservatives in the public sphere are are so far right now from anything I would have ever recognized as “conservative” back in the day, that it’s completely unrecognizable. The positions of many Democrats and self-identified liberals are often simply what I would have thought were part of our basic understanding as Americans (for example, that civilized countries don’t torture their prisoners.) Evidently I was wrong about the basic understanding part, and that makes me sad/angry/fearful. I feel like things have been turned on their heads somehow.
Anyway, I would love to see some polling or something that tries to clarify what is the common understanding of “conservative” and “liberal” (and for that matter “socialist.” Because, contrary to what I’ve always thought, it looks like I might be a liberal. No, a socialist. Which is quite surprising. Is this just me?
IndieTarheel
@Fulcanelli:
I’ll see your Temptations and raise you some O’Jays:
(What they do!)
(They smile in your face)
All the time they want to take your place
The back stabbers (back stabbers)
Laura the Lurker
@BC:
It’s especially your number 2 that causes me so many problems. I spend so much time going, “Where the hell did that come from?” that it’s hard to get any further than that.
I’ll add another one, too. Once you’ve got a lie established, it’s easy to get people to believe that there must be something to it. Maybe a lot of reasonable people don’t believe the lie itself, but once it’s out there, it’s not too hard to get those reasonable people to believe a weaker version of the lie. You know, maybe there aren’t literally death panels in the bill, but there are provisions that could easily lead to them. We need to be careful!
I’m being driven crazy here. If people want to oppose health care reform because they really don’t think it’s in the best interests of the country, I may think they’re wrong, but if they win they win. But if the reason they win is because shouting crazy lies is the most effective tactic, then that’s bad news for our whole democracy. That’s what has me worried right now. The actual reform is almost a secondary issue for me, even though I actually do think it’s an important thing.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
So why isn’t the good doctor suing for defamation? Seriously! There is a court process for this and she is daring him to use it. It has been a big problem that too many intellectual types don’t take the crazies seriously. They need to do more than ignore them, because they aren’t going away. They need to shut them down.
Norman Rogers
@Laura the Lurker: Laura, that’s the horror of singular thinking, epitomized by the polarization of “sides” during the Bush years. You have to give old man Cole here credit–on the other side of the Bush years, he’s consistently thinking with his head out of his ass and down below the clouds. The road is strewn with the bones of people who have traded their credibility for cheerleading failure.
I will criticize the left and the right equally for being incompetent or corrupt, and I will praise both for doing the right thing. No one on the right is leading, no one on the left wants to follow, nothing is getting done, and the American people are suffering like there’s no tomorrow.
Well, tomorrow is here, and if we don’t right the ship, the whole goddamned thing is going down, period, end of story, and the pure left and the puritanical right can take ideology and stuff it, because ideology paralyzes creative solutions to complex problems.
T. O'Hara
Why does Obama? Picking on a failed VP candidate’s facebook page? Whose fault is the media coverage? Didn’t he want it to be covered?
T. O'Hara
Costs won’t rise? Quality won’t fall? We can pay for it? It won’t lead to rationing? The government won’t take money from Medicare to cover it?
These concerns aren’t “lies”. Obama isn’t addressing them, or his claims are unbelievable. Who’s to blame for that?
General Winfield Stuck
@T. O’Hara:
Don’t worry Ohara. Soon all the talk will be history. When we wrap up a nice neat health reform bill and shove it down your pie hole. Try to swallow deeply, less pain and it will go down faster.
Pat
The danger of passing health care reform bills in the wake of Ted Kennedy’s death is that the American people will succumb to the same tricks of the bail out, the Iraq War after 9/11, and the emotional chicanery which makes it possible.
Level heads should be able to prevail, and measuring the impact of passing health care reforms while also evaluating the reasons for no COLA increases in Medicare might indicated more financial chicanery as well as emotional chicanery. Social Security watchers are already concerned about the methods and formulas which measure inflation to set the Cola standards to keep pace with the increase of goods and services purchased that is the reason for the Cola.
Nothing has been reviewed in that respect, or as explanation of why no SS increases will be forthcoming in the next two years.
Together with bailouts for banks, increased power for insurance companies, and decreased power of Medicare and SS to deal with these issues, it’s natural for Americans to be suspicious of using emotional chicanery in the form of Kennedy popularity to pass yet another inadequate and malformed piece of legislation to fix what it truly broken with something that is promoted as anything but defective and inadequate.
Not allowing emotional chicanery to pass for judgment is the best tribute to Ted Kennedy the man could have to honor his nearly 50 years of public service, however dedicated he was to health care issues.
IndieTarheel
@Indylib:
Everyone, OK, you may get that. But Candy Crowley is going to do the “some people say” line. It’s hardwired into what passes for her brain.
General Winfield Stuck
It’s because inflation has been essentially flat since gas and other fossil fuel prices have gone down. Now maybe we should not count the volatility of the energy market. But last year was a record COLA increase, largely because of very high fuel prices. As have been higher COLA for the past several years.
Gus
@General Winfield Stuck:
I really have no problem with that, because the things I’ll say when Cheney dies will make those things seem like tributes.