This is great. Mike Stark tracks down Republicans in DC and asks them about the birther issue:
The reason Republicans in DC are running from some guy on the street asking them whether or not Obama is an American citizen is because they have spent the last thirty years cultivating a base of insane crazy people, and while they may escape a reporter from FDL, they can’t escape the base.
DougJ
That is amazing. It’s worse than I thought.
r€nato
Mike Stark up and disappered for way too long. Glad he’s back and sticking his finger in the eye of wrong-wingers everywhere.
geg6
I saw that earlier today. That’s some truly crazy shit. Will someone tell me again why new media is infinitely inferior to old media? Something to with responsibility, journalistic values, and getting the facts right?
gnomedad
Liberal media bastard! Ambushing these public servants to, um, publicly ask them the question they’ve been publicly asking.
r€nato
That is an amazing video and proves how willing Republicans are to pandering to their base, no matter how nutty and insane.
(can anyone be surprised about this, after the Terry Schiavo fiasco?)
Trent Franks genuinely surprised me; I’ve followed him for some time (not like Mike Stark followed him…), and he’s a very far right-winger who has a single-minded obsession with abortion. I’m surprised he is not buying into the birther crap and that he issued a clear denial of its validity.
I’d still never vote for him in a million bazillion years and I’d love it if he lost his job. I wonder what his constituents would say if they knew he didn’t buy the birther theory…
General Winfield Stuck
Well , what we need now is, Obama and the Volcano. Only way to be sure.
Zifnab
Damn those US Citizens, daring to speak that way to our noble House Representatives! Scum of the earth, I tell you! Scum of the earth!
demkat620
@r€nato: Exactly. I could never vote for him but he shot that down.
Good for him. He gets a gold star for today.
GranFalloon
You know, George HW Bush was in the Phillipines immediately before W was born. Anyone questioning whether Bush was born in the US? Doubt it. The average Birfer would say “hell no, he was born deep in the heart of the great state of Texas” (it was actually New Haven).
Fact of the matter is, no matter what they say, the Birfer nonsense can only be perpetuated by the fact of his color. Black – potentially African. That’s the only toehold it has. No one questioned whether Bush, Ford, Nixon (or Carter or Clinton) were born in Scotland, England, or Wales, despite their suspiciously caucasian appearance.
geg6
The one that Stark says hid from him, Tim Murphy, is a former local teevee child psychologist who likes to pass himself off to his more affluent suburbanite constituents as a “moderate.”. If forced to answer, he will find himself in some trouble with that sector of his constituency who voted Obama and who made his race his tightest as an incumbent.
A Mom Anon
Price is my rep,I think I’ll call his office in the morning and ask the same question. I hate that smirky little shit.
Michael
They’re fucking insurrectionists inspiring violence. I am goddamned outraged that they would buy the lunatic rantings of a bunch of idiots.
They’re reacting exactly like they did on Schiavo, and we saw how that turned out – the crazies grabbed the locomotive throttle there, too.
BFR
If I were a GOP rep responding to this, I’d go with:
1) I’m not qualified to pass judgement
2) As a Republican, I believe in states’ rights, so the state of Hawaii is the authority in this matter
3) Hawaii says the certificate is legitimate
It doesn’t seem that difficult to me, so it seems like they’d rather try to leave this as an open ‘issue’ while avoiding any comment whatsoever.
demkat620
Have we all agreed today that Howard Fineman is a world class concern troll?
Well, he is. If this was something about Bush he’d be urging Rove to turn it up to eleven.
Rick Taylor
I’ve been hearing for years how the Democratic party was going to fail because it was in thrall to its nutty base (you know, organizations like Move On dot Org who held extremist positions, like impeaching the President over a blow job is excessive, or invading Iraq is a really bad idea). So I’m enjoying this and hope Republican congressmen get raked over the coals until they’re ready not to pander to nuts.
Incertus
@Michael: They’re reacting exactly like they did on Schiavo, and we saw how that turned out – the crazies grabbed the locomotive throttle there, too.
And they drove the Republican party straight into a ditch. Guess they’re looking for a ravine this time.
Zandar
The birthers themselves can’t lose. They are immune to reality.
The GOP members of Congress on the other hand…
MattF
@Rick Taylor
Problem is that ‘not pander to nuts’ means ‘not get Republican votes’. It’s a problem.
Brick Oven Bill
This is, of course, the vision of Scenario #2, where there is a certificate, and the goal is to score cheap political points.
Tell this to the family of the dead Museum guard. The President should come clean in either scenario. He is now the President of the United States, not a community organizer.
Warren Terra
Kudos to Trent Franks (R-AZ). I completely disagree with all of the positions that he stated, and I even disagree with his perception of what the facts are in these policy questions (I would counter his perception of the world we live in and argue that Obama isn’t really enthusiastic about abortion, isn’t a soc1al1st, and is doing more to reduce Islamist extremism than Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld did), but although his positions and his worldview are completely different from mine he and he alone came across as sane and (within his place on the ideological spectrum) responsible.
joes527
@Brick Oven Bill:
You know you might be a conspiracy theorist IF:
You have a “scenario 2.”
General Winfield Stuck
@Michael:
You know, I hate to say it, cause it sounds like conspiracy theory, but I don’t think for a minute this has anything to do with where Obama was born. It seems more and more that a slow motion process toward a last resort conclusion is taking place with these people. And it is obvious that it isn’t just a few wingers as evidenced by increasing numbers of their reps in congress stuttering on the question of whether their elected president is a real American citizen.
I mean, where does something like this go, when it appears to be growing by the day within the right wing. When you come to the conclusion that the CiC is a foreigner, and an apparently a un-documented alien is sitting in the Oval Office, where else is there to go but insurrection to restore the Constitution after making the decision it is true. I know if such a thing was really true, I might be thinking the same thing, and cleaning my guns.
jenniebee
Jeebus, you know, I remember when Hillary remarked that if the WH wanted to knock a story off the front page, all she had to do to make that happen was change her hairdo. The birthers just do not realize what a gift they’re creating for the White House – any time they want the subject changed, all they have to do is put the certificate up on a WH webpage (or revamp the web page, or move the link…) and the birthers will froth the news cycle. Whatever you might have thought about Obama, you’ll be reminded that his loudest opponents are certifiable.
The beauty of it all is that there’s never going to be a point at which the proof is enough (if there was, it would have been enough already), so this is the gift that keeps on giving.
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
Hey, Trent Franks and I are 180-degrees apart on the issues that actually mean fuck-all. But kudos to him for not drinking the Kook-Aid.
Rick Massimo
Therefore …
4) Obama is a native-born American citizen and is eligible to be president.
That’s the part they especially cannot bring themselves to say.
Also: I don’t know whether this is an effect produced by the way the video is edited, but don’t quite a few of those GOPers appear to be running from Stark and his video camera before they even known what he’s going to ask them? Smell the democracy!
jenniebee
@Brick Oven Bill:
BoB gives us a lesson in Birther Logic
Lowkey
That’s why I’m so happy to see Rep. Abercrombie’s resolution hit the floor! It seems that the GOP is just great at fracturing our coalitions over our nonsensical stuff (“abandon your primary campaign pledge of reform, Blue Dog, or we’ll tell everyone you’re a tax-and-spend homo-lover!”), but the Dems can’t or don’t ever knock some cracks into theirs. I’ve been wondering when some ambitious Democrat would finally take a risk and throw an elbow. If our side can turn the noise machine on itself, well, that’d be a heckuva a gift while we try and get some stuff done. Ann Freaking Coulter is calling the Birfers cranks. Let them screech at each other for a while.
Paul L.
Quoting Jane Hamsher.
Jane Hamsher knows all about running away from a question.
‘Epic Fail,’ Starring Jane Hamsher
Like when she was asked for proof that Fox News was financing the Tea Party protests.
Erik Vanderhoff
The President should come clean in either scenario.
Jeebus H. Keyrice on a stick with a side of jalapeno pickles, you are sixteen ounces of crazy in an eight-ounce generic tupperware without the snap-on lid.
Michael
They seem to be aiming for a military coup solution. I’d laugh, but I’m genuinely concerned over the current nutcase quotient in the Air Force, which has been the convenient, comfortable service for nutcases to gravitate to. They have a lot of cool toys, a lot of evangelical officers at the highest level with a huge sense of entitlement and none of the sort of humility that comes from the sort of work that the Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard do. The others have been able to purge their ranks sort-of adequately over the past couple of years, Gates has been helpful there, but there is a smouldering problem in the USAF.
I think that they are making a definite play for knocking him off ballots in Georgia and Texas via some weird birth certificate legislation that they can definitely cram through and get signed. It’ll be smacked down on a full faith and credit suit (saying that they do have to recognize Hawaii birth certificates), but it sets the stage for some sinister act of insurrection in 2012.
I’m thinking that is the moment of peak wingnut.
Warren Terra
Gee, Paul L links to the blog of a guy too racist to stay on at The Washington Times. I haven’t bothered to watch the video, but who the flip is dumb enough to ask whether Fox News was “funding” the teabaggers? The Teabaggers didn’t need funding, they needed publicity – and it would be absurd to deny that Fox News was deliberately pumping as much publicity into the Teabaggers as they possibly could.
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
22: That and he’s black. Also.
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
31@:
I think peak wingnut is a far, far way off.
geg6
Tweety was showing the Stark video. Funny shit.
The next-to-last samurai
Does anyone here know a birther face to face? Ie, off the Internets? I only know one and I live in a very red area; I wonder how many birthers there really are.
Jay in Oregon
A cynial part of me is convinced that the real reason the birther whackjobs want to see and hold the actual birth certificate is because when they have that absolute, undeniable proof in their hands… they’ll happily tear it to shreds, thinking “Aha! Now they’ll never be able to prove Obama is a real American!”
Like everything else when it comes to the rabid right, it has nothing to do with truth or integrity or principles. They champion the birther cause because they don’t want to deal with the fact that Blackazoid Malcolm X Osama is President of the United States, and anything they can do to de-legitimize him is justified.
SiubhanDuinne
I’m wondering how much overlap there is between birfers and PUMAs. I mean, I know supposedly PUMA = Disgruntled D and birfer = Ridiculous R, but seriously, is there enough crazy in the country to accommodate them all? Have you ever seen them in the same room together? I think they’re the same people.
Michael
I’m afraid to bring it up. I did have some fun with my barber today over Skip Gates. My comment was that any cop who would follow me into my home without a warrant or misconduct on my part would get lip.
His line of “yeah, but you wouldn’t cuss him out” was followed by mine:
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
The Birfer phenomenon intersects with the Betty Brown (R-TX) strain of ‘winger–that “orientals” should have ‘Murkin names. http://www.boingboing.net/2009/04/13/texas-lawmaker-chine.html
No one who doesn’t look like an us, and who has a funny name can be authentically American. And any proof to the contrary–like, say, an official state document–is just evidence of a deeper conspiracy. The Constitutional shit means nothing. Nothing means nothing. A kneegrow somehow got into the White House–by GETTING MORE VOTES FROM JIHAD-SYMPS AND SOCIALIST BED-WETTERS–and that’s just wrong.
It’s like they’re taking their marching orders from Dale Gribble.
D-Chance.
Contemptible conduct by Stark and Hamster. If it’s wrong for Bill O to send his goons out to stalk and entrap interviewees, then it’s wrong for Stark and his little Wingnut Welfare Wannabe Queen to do the same.
Michael
They’d happily do that for Sweet Baby Jesus and Freedom. Its the C Street mentality applied to their movement as a whole – the ends always justify the means.
Its why they abide torture, corruption, hypocrisy and greed.
gnomedad
@Warren Terra:
Arguably, this is a conspiracy to elevate mere sanity to the status of courage and statesmanship.
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
41@
Contemptible conduct by Stark and Hamster. If it’s wrong for Bill O to send his goons out to stalk and entrap interviewees, then it’s wrong for Stark and his little Wingnut Welfare Wannabe Queen to do the same. I’m a fucking concern troll douchebag.
Fixed.
General Winfield Stuck
@SiubhanDuinne:
There likely are PUMA’s who have jumped on the Birther Clown Car, but I think they are primarily right wingers of the rural south and some midwest. Until just recently, I thought they would remain just a mouthy fringe of the right, but the dark phenom seems to be growing. When you get redstate CC’s who are generally crazy but not insane (with a few exceptions) placating them and even joining them, it means there are more than a few, IMO.
geg6
BOB: The so-called “original” birth certificate you keep bleating about no longer exists as a physical piece of paper. The electronic record of it resides in Hawaii and not viewable by anyone other than the certifying official there. The one you make such a big deal about touching is the same as the one you claimed you were recently issued and the one I had to get a few years ago when I got a passport. It is called a Certificate of Live Birth in most states and I have heard you many times in this very place saying that a certificate of live birth is not sufficient. Besides which, why would anyone give strangers of any stripe access to their birth certificate? That’s how identity theft happens or terrorists might seek to undermine the legitimacy of our duly elected CiC.
General Winfield Stuck
@D-Chance.:
Congress persons are not civilians, they are elected reps, born to be entrapped and interviewed.
Warren Terra
I actually have a little sympathy for this, but not a lot. A big part of what O’Reilly does it to pick on the weak, people who expect no particular scrutiny of or interruption to their private lives and who have no authority over us, no power at all other than whatever ability they may have to convince people to adopt their opinions; while Stark is ambushing Congresspeople, who are public officials living public lives and who have tremendous power over us.
O’Reilly’s people also do a couple of other things that make his ambushes particularly disreputable: they frequently do not request any sort of interview before ambushing the people, although O’Reilly often lies about this on air (I suspect Stark may not have requested an interview either, but I do not know), and O’Reilly’s people have a pattern of following their targets for a long distance and waiting for them to be isolated and away from any convenient form of escape (home, workplace, their car, a friend’s home) before confronting them – rather than confronting them outside their home or workplace, as Stark did here.
gopher2b
In fairness to the Congressman shopping for pens, its not easy to decide whether to go with red, blue, or black. Sure, he could have picked one of each but I admire his frugality.
WingNutz
@gopher2b: its not easy to decide whether to go with red, blue, or black.
He was looking for white. Couldn’t imagine they didn’t carry it.
BTW, where the heck is that, the congressional office supply cupboard?
General Winfield Stuck
After I clear my cache, I have to make a comment to get the main BJ format to come up. Curious.
ughh. didn;t work that time.
matoko_chan
I can’t wait for the Daily Show today.
;)
Dr. Cole is correct….for years the GOP has been scamming the low information base with dogwhistle racebaiting and IQbaiting into voting for tax cuts for the rich and voting down programs they need like healthcare. Now the crazee fringe has become the center, and they got teh powah!
birfermadness!!
steve s
The way it’s used on this site, Concern Troll is as meaningless as Activist Judge. If you don’t agree with someone 100% you’re a Concern Troll.
Joshua Norton
So maybe the next step would be to deny that Hawaii is really a state. I know the natives would love that. They’ve been pissed off since Dole Pineapple and the missionaries started their little land grab and overthrew the monarchy 100 years ago.
joes527
As funny as folks hiding out shopping for pens and jogging up steps is, The whole ambush journalism shtick it a bit too O’Reiley for me.
If someone sticks a microphone and camera in your face as you are trying to walk down the street, then 5 will get you 10 that that person is trying to make you look stupid. (no need to adjust the odds for (D) or (R)) I do get the strong desire to no cooperate and end the encounter as quickly as possible.
Though a simple “fuck off, asshole” would be more honest than hiding out in the stationary.
Warren Terra
@ steve s #55:
I don’t pay enough attention to know how “concern troll” is used on the site, but D-Chance has been commenting here for a long, long time, and I suspect that Jim Bob’s previous experience of D-Chance’s comments may be involved in his assessment.
joes527
@Warren Terra:
It is the all purpose answer to folks who dare suggest that the republican party of the last 8 years is not a good model for how the democrat party (I ked, I ked! Democratic Party) should be behaving now.
Mike in NC
B.O.B. has been demanding he “come clean” on any number of issues, so the pressure just has to be enormous. The teleprompter, also.
Wingers might argue that Hawaii isn’t a REAL state because it isn’t physically attached to the “lower 48”, plus it has a lot of non-white natives. Unlike Alaska, of course…
Martin
If memory serves, Stark vanshed when he started law school – too busy and this isn’t the sort of thing that endears you to your 1st year profs.
Comrade Darkness
@joes527: Except as our representatives, this is their frakking job. In general, though, I would agree.
The Moar You Know
Hey, really – kudos to Trent Franks. I’m likely 100% ideologically opposed to him, but he gave a very clear and unambigous answer to the question and although I quake in terror at the kind of folks that would elect someone with his views, he’s at least not afraid to give an honest answer, and that makes him better than 99% of the politicians out there. Good for him. That’s opposition I can work with.
Zuzu's Petals
@joes527:
You know, I used to get frustrated that BOB would just keep throwing the same nutty in thread after thread despite repeatedly being corrected.
And then I saw his alter ego peep out one day to see if anyone was looking. Whew, talk about deep cover! So I stopped taking the bait … and now I can just appreciate the entertainment value there.
The Grand Panjandrum
This fucking wingnut agrees with one obvious fact and he deserves praise? Fuck him. He’s a filthy cocksucking nut job, and just because he isn’t a birther doesn’t mean he’s sane. Google that numb nuts then tell me he deserves praise for anything.
matoko_chan
cultivating a base of
insane crazy peoplelow information voters.the problem is, the base is so low information that the GOP leadership can’t explain why birfermadness is bad for the GOP, or the meaning of paperless archives.
I think there is prolly IS a paper archive……and O is just machiavellian enough to keep it hidden.
General Winfield Stuck
@matoko_chan:
I believe it was eight years ago Hawaii went paperless and original long form BC’s were destroyed. If Obama’s digital copy isn’t good enough to prove citizenship, then Hawaii, and other states, are full of furrin lollygaggers living on the lam.
Kilkee
@Joshua Norton: Indeed, the “Hawaii isn’t really a State” meme is all teed up:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/HAWAII/hawaii.html
steve s
“58
July 27th, 2009 at 7:25 pm Reply to this comment
Warren Terra
@ steve s #55:
I don’t pay enough attention to know how “concern troll” is used on the site, but D-Chance has been commenting here for a long, long time, and I suspect that Jim Bob’s previous experience of D-Chance’s comments may be involved in his assessment.
”
I wasn’t making a comment about any specific case, because I haven’t been here long enough to know the history of most people here. But the few months I have been here have been enough to see that Concern Troll is thrown around here like the conservatives throw around Activist Judge.
steve s
They really have painted themselves into a corner. How do you appeal to the expanding demographic of multi-racial, educated, technocratic, non-homophobic, secular youngsters while in any way keeping the anti-intellectual, anti-gay, anti-ethnic christianists on your side?
steve s
I think the most interesting question in politics at the moment is, How will the GOP reformulate? The Southern Strategy is a sinking ship, and over the long term parties care more about winning than ideology. So it’s inevitable that the GOP will somehow reformulate to a different coalition with a broader appeal. It’s just mysterious to me how that’ll happen.
gwangung
‘Course dey are. All dem islan’ boys and wahinis are too brown for dat.
parksideq
The only way that video could be better is if Ozzy’s “Crazy Train” was playing in the background. The fact that birfers are too nutty for Ann Coulter just makes these congressmen’s dodginess on the issue all the more shameful.
oh really
This video would be hilarious if it weren’t so pathetic…and frightening.
I especially loved the guy with the big piece of corrugated board that apparently proves that Obama was born in Kenya.
Just think, he can’t figure out anything better to do with his time. Now, that’s tragic.
I’m assuming it is the fault of Republicans that Obama is president. After all, it should have been a pretty simple matter to prove he isn’t a natural born citizen of the US and thus ineligible to be president. They could have done the research; released it to the American people during the campaign; eliminated Obama; and waltzed into the White House.
That they didn’t, proves they hate America and secretly want it to be a socialist dictatorship. Shocking.
amk
while they may escape a reporter from FDL, they can’t escape the base.
WORD
Phoenix Woman
Sow the crazy wind, reap the batshit-crazy whirlwind.
And now Neil Abercrombie Hobson’s Choiced them with the House Resolution: Either vote “nay” and deny that Barack Obama is our lawful president born on US soil, or vote “aye” and piss off the birthers.
Every single Republican who was on the House floor voted “aye”, thus effectively pissing off the birthers right before they’re going to meet them during the vacation fundraisers.
matoko_chan
I love this so much!
Cap’n Ed: What does it say about the Birther issue when Fox News covers its debunking while CNN continues to stoke the controversy?
It says, paybacks are hell, bitches. ;)
From the (335 and counting) comments.
The newspaper announcement was a fraud. Obama’s mom paid money for that announcement to be printed. 9/11 is also an inside job
equality on July 28, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Ed denigrates people who have questions about documents that aren’t acceptable for anyone else to use … again.
Sporty1946 on July 28, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Ed, I’m disappointed in you. u are willing to go chief wiggum on us and say “that’s all the evidence i need!” because someone told you so?!?!??!?!
/show the certif.
//and the apps., and the passports.
///as always, it’s the continued stonewalling that feeds the fire …
Buckaroo on July 28, 2009 at 11:43 AM
hahahaha!
am i going to go to hell for enjoying this so much?
SiubhanDuinne
@ A Mom Anon
Did you ever get hold of Tom Price? (ref your post yesterday at 5:42 pm).
This thread is pretty dead. I might go O/T on something more current and ask again — or pray for a nice shiny Open Thread (featuring, in the best of all possible worlds, pix of Tilly and Lunch).
Tongue of Groucho Marx
Franks only said what he said because he’s contemplating a serious Presidential run. And because Pence wore a suit for him.
I wish we could get Tancredo’s view on the birth certificate. Unfortunately, he’s a private citizen, so mankind will be deprived of a great moment in comedy.
Tongue of Groucho Marx
Damnit, that’s Stark, not Pence.