18
Jul
Waterloo, D-Day, etc.
It looks like Kristol’s 1993 advice is still being heeded:
“Senators and Congressmen will come back in September afraid to vote against the American people,” DeMint predicted, adding that “this health care issue Is D-Day for freedom in America.”
“If we’re able to stop Obama on this it will be his Waterloo. It will break him,” he said.
That’s really how these jack-asses see themselves, as war heros fighting for freedom. And it’s good to see them openly admit that this about breaking Obama, not defending some lofty principle or heeding some CBO report.
How long til these guys start talking about Obama’s march to the sea?
The Grand Panjandrum
Per Hilzoy’s final post at ObWi:
Good faith arguments. Sigh. I feel like I’m repeating myself.
Robertdsc-iphone
If only Barack would break out of smooth operator mode and give that bastard a shot in the mouth. If only just once, I would be happy.
And when I read the original ending sentence, my first thought was “Northern Aggression for the motherfucking win!”
b-psycho
They wouldn’t do that. Comparing him to Sherman would suggest he’s American…
Blue Raven
Well, if the media keeps talking to such fine, upstanding Republican elder statesmen as Dan Quayle about Obama’s administration, it is indeed only a matter of time. Though Danny Boy limited himself to claiming Obama needs to “tame” the left wing of the party. Why do they even BOTHER with these people?
Beeb
Much better to suggest Obama’s French. And short.
PeakVT
“this health care issue Is D-Day for freedom in America.”
The longer I think about this analogy, the less sense it makes.
Indylib
OT But the Wiernermobile attacks an innocent home in my neck of the woods.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....39187.html
El Cid
So, now Obama’s Kenyan, Muslim, Indonesian, Not-Real-America Hawaiian and French?
Beeb
@El Cid—Of course, he’s French. Dijon mustard. QED. It’s the short part that’s new.
arguingwithsignposts
@PeakVT:
The longer I think about this analogy, the less sense it makes.
Well, if you’re jim demented, it makes perfect sense.
Besides, these people have shown time and time again that they don’t give a rat’s ass about the “will of the people” who elected them. Witness Diane Feinstein, for instance, or joe lieberman, or any of the other blue dog dems who can’t seem to find it in their hearts to guarantee health care to the american public.
Common Sense
No one could have predicted that DeMint would be an obstructionist.
DougJ
I think he’s smart not to. He waits for beginnings, sentiment is left to chance.
b-psycho
On the topic of health care, all I want to know is this:
Does anyone that people pay attention to have any critiques of health policy that lean towards decentralizing? For example, has anyone proposed among other things, say, breaking up the insurance companies and/or letting people establish non-profit co-ops for coverage (not the kind that just buy from big insurers, mind you, but actual coverage pools)? Any advocacy for public options (note the plural) that are actually PUBLIC by the traditional definition of the term?
I’d just rather the debate not be limited to government-option+mandates vs the ineffective corporate-run status quo. Call it idealistic if you want.
steve s
The creationists love the Waterloo thing too.
“Dogmatic opponents of design have who demanded the center be shut down have met their Waterloo.”
—William Dembski, 2 days before getting fired
“Wisconsin may well be evolution’s Waterloo”
—same loser, six years later.
Linkmeister
@b-psycho: Kent Conrad suggested co-ops, but I think the original idea was one or more for each state. When it was pointed out that it seemed to take a pool of 500K people to make co-ops economically feasible, he backed off a little (his state barely has that many—633K).
Anton Sirius
@steve s:
I think the pattern is established enough to conclude that wingnuts are, by and large, ABBA fans.
freelancer
Non! Je Suis Napolean!
A Mom Anon
Sort of OT but:
Shouldn’t people who are in elected office have to have some working knowledge of stuff like,oh,The Constitution,American History,Civics,how a representative democracy works etc? I’m not saying they have to be experts,but dear god,is it really too much to ask that the people who hold elected office be reasonably smart?
Instead we have a snotty high school,only with more money. It’s really all about “getting the liberals”and that’s it. They have no new ideas,no ideas at all except fucking with people just because they can.
I hope Jim DeMint gets inoperable hemmoroids.
Dave C
@steve s:
LOL, we must read the same websites. I can’t hear the word “Waterloo” without immediately thinking of Dembski!
jwb
Except that if health care reform is defeated, the economy continues to stumble along AND the banking industry continues enjoying these huge profits, Obama will in fact be in deep political trouble. We can take a bit of solace in the fact that the centrist Democrats are the most vulnerable and so likely to go down if some sort of health care reform is not enacted. That’s the one reason I’m actually fairly optimistic that something will pass—though whether it will be a significant improvement remains an open question.
arguingwithsignposts
@A Mom Anon:
Sadly, no. apparently, they only need to know who to blow.
Jim DeMint is as bad as Bachmann as far as the civics goes.
kid bitzer
look, i think dement is right to fight this.
otherwise, he’d be neville chamberlain. in munich. with the umbrella.
joe from Lowell
Bill Kristol’s analysis was absolutely right in 1993. If universal health care goes through, it will send the Republicans into permanent minority status as surely as the New Deal.
“this health care issue Is D-Day for freedom in America.”
That only makes sense if you’re the Germans, Senator Demint. Here come the landing craft full of people who want universal health care. A-rat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat.
Beeb
@kid bitzer—I’d just like him to decide whether he’s Wellington or Eisenhower. And freelancer, you can’t fool me. That’s not Napoleon, it’s Marshal Ney.
kid bitzer
@beeb—i’m pretty sure he’s the little dutch boy standing athwart history shouting “i shall return!”
arguingwithsignposts
Waiting for the “Downfall” Hitler videos subtitled about healthcare.
steve s
Used to. I was an out of control tardaholic who spent years snorting the pure, uncut stuff at the creationist websites. But eventually I burned out hard on the tard, and had to give it up.
We hang out here and make fun of the occasional quote by Hannity, or Erickson, or Andy McCarthy, much like I used to hang out with science types and laugh at the idiocies of Dembski, Behe, Luskin. So coming here is like switching from heroin to methadone. But in the end, I’ll have to give up this too, and find something more productive to do with my time.
steve s
I think I might start reading a bunch of history, and maybe start another business. But these economic times are unbelievably horrible.
steve s
...how to put spaces after commas…..
b-psycho
@Linkmeister: When was that? If there was a study done on insurance co-ops is it public?
I tried a search & didn’t get much relevant.
Glen
jwb and joe are right. It doesn’t matter how health care reform is defeated. If it is, Obama is stuck with a tanking economy which in all probability will suffer another Wall St implosion (or worse yet a US dollar implosion) since the banks were propped up rather than fixed. And he’s got unemployment going up and a jobless recovery when recovery finally comes.
All of this spells disaster for the Dems and especially for the Blue Dogs in 2010 ans 2012. Some irony, the same fools that will sink Obama’s (and the country’s) boat will take it in the head in the next election cycle.
cleek
Obama should go on TV, with that quote, and tell America, “Look, I know you want health care reform, most of the Democrats know you want it, too. But the GOP sees this as a way to score partisan points, your health be damned. They really think this is a game. Did you elect me to play games, or did you elect me to work for you ? Let me know. Call your Senators and Congress-people, tell them what you want, and have them tell me. I’ll be right here.”
Turgidson
This is all a fucking game to twits like DeMint. God fucking damn it.
I’m a cynic about how responsive our government is to the people, so usually I just roll my eyes at crap like this and move on because I don’t expect anything better. For some reason, today I want to strangle all the self-interested knuckle-draggers in the Senate one by one.
Maybe it’s that all this Bar review has finally driven me insane. Wait, there’s no maybe about it.
joe from Lowell
The Constitution,American History,Civics,how a representative democracy works etc?
Speaking of which, the insurance company didn’t total Trusty the Wonder Civic, and I get him back Monday with a shiny new front end.
Just in case you were worried.
Dave C
@steve s:
wait a sec, you’re not “steve story” are you? If so, I’m a fellow Church Burnin’ Ebola Boy over at AtBC (I go by someotherguy over there)!
joe from Lowell
cleek,
Good idea. He can start off by reminding them of Rush Limbaugh wanting him to fail.
“...so now they want me to fail, want us to fail, to fix health care.”
Socraticsilence
Of course they’re totally right, I mean remember how Clinton left the White House in disgrace after being broken on Health Care- I mean Al Gore was President from 1994-2000 right?
General Winfield Stuck
Scarlett Demint
Gone With the Wingnuts
iluvsummr
@DougJ:
LOL. But does he have a sensitive heart?
DougJ
LOL. But does he have a sensitive heart?
His eyes are like angels but his heart is cold.
angulimala
The Democratic forces were entrenched on the cliffs above the beaches. Dug into concrete bunkers, they waited, ready to unleash a hail of invective against the brave republicans who were coming forward in wave after wave of SUVs.
Congressmen McNulty prayed silently as his Suburban approached the enemy defense. He was in the first wave. Casualties were expected to be high. Some said that, by the end of the day, 80%+ of the initial landing forces would have had their feelings hurt by the bitter insults that would come their way.
The Suburban screech to a halt. “Bail!” came the order from up front. McNulty threw open the left side door, hopped out, and took cover behind the door. It wasn’t much, but the armored body would give him at least some cover against the bitter insults that were already landing all around him.
“You don’t care about poor people”!! The attack whizzed by his ear, hitting someone behind him. He turned and saw Shultz, who had been right behind him out of the SUV, staggering and clutching his heart. He took 3 steps and fell into the sand with a muffled grunt.
“You COMMIE BASTARDS!” shouted McNulty. “We do too care! Free Market Principles help the poor
You’re the ones who don’t care about the people you addict to Government Handouts
“. The rage surged within him. He had been scared at first, but not anymore. Now he just wanted revenge.
Linkmeister
@b-psycho: Here’s a Time Magazine article from 3 weeks ago about Conrad’s attempts.
Linkmeister
@b-psycho: And here’s Robert Reich on co-ops. His argument is they’d be too small to really negotiate from a position of strength against Big PhRMA and the insurance companies.
Bubba
We would run a marathon to stop this Pyrrhic victory! Like Hannibal crossing the Alps, our freedom-loving forces will cross the Delaware and surprise Obama’s health care plan at Little Big Horn, beating it like Caesar beat the Gauls. Even though congressional Defeatocrats built a super-majority Spanish armada, we will trample their Maginot Line of Socialism with our blitzkrieg of jaguar warriors. While their special-interest allies may seem as numerous as Attila’s Huns or as powerful as the French at Agincourt, do not despair like Prescott at Breed’s Hill. As William Wallace so proudly proclaimed against that sinister Longshanks or King Leonidas shouted against the CGI Persian immortals, “Freedom!”
linda
@angulimala:
brilliant… lol. you seriously ought to consider working that up and submitting it to huffpo, attached to the demint quote.
jrosen
D-Day makes sense if you identify with the defense…the Nazis.
General Winfield Stuck
Shorter Dement -Those Liberal Fascists spoil all our fun..
ClownCarTrainWreck
“We cannot change the hearts of those people of the South, but we can make war so terrible . . . make them so sick of war that generations would pass away before they would again appeal to it.”
Texas Dem
There are two overall problems with any effort to reform our health care system. 1) Most people have health insurance and are reasonably satisfied with the coverage; they’re not rioting in the streets demanding health care reform, and that’s probably what it will take. 2) Any attempt to reform our current system and guarantee universal coverage without single payer will be complicated and, therefore, easy to pick apart. I may not like Demint’s tactics but he’s right about the political stakes. If Obama fails to get a health reform bill through Congress, he’s finished. His presidency will be effectively over, and we will be awaiting President Romney, President Huckabee, or God help us, President Palin.
steve s
In the flesh. :-)
Martian Buddy
I’m surprised he has that much trouble coming up with a good analogy for Republican efforts to defeat health care reform—Vietnam, Korea, and Somalia all spring readily to mind.
N M
I went ahead and emailed each of the six senators and plan to call them. If this is important to you, take 13 minutes (I clocked it) to do the same. Hell write one note and just change the name on it for one you send it to. It’s easy to google their senate web pages and find the ‘send email’ link.
These pussies get all scared when Rush has his army of dittoheads call or email in, let’s do the same thing.
/steps off soapbox, picks up latte, zooms away in Volvo
steve s
@Dave C:
I’ve been gone from AtBC for 6 months or so now. I miss it, but it was time to move on. I trust the ID folk are still the biggest nimrods on the planet?
Loo water mabye?
At Waterloo the once mighty French made a last desperate assault and lost. Methinks that sounds more like the GOP than Obama.
El Cid
@Bubba: Pure byooty.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Wow. You can’t even see the AHIP lobbyist’s lips move.
@angulimala: [Applause]
drillfork
Not at all convinced Obama’s goal isn’t to simply pass something for appearances sake (see, stimulus). Hope I’m wrong, but the next time I’m too cynical about these things will be the first…
Nellcote
@drillfork:
>Not at all convinced Obama’s goal isn’t to simply pass something for appearances sake (see, stimulus).
I know there are larger issues here but I’ll tell you that the StimBonus I was getting with my unemployment check made all the difference in the world.
Socraticsilence
“If Obama fails to get a health reform bill through Congress, he’s finished. His presidency will be effectively over, and we will be awaiting President Romney, President Huckabee, or God help us, President Palin.”
Remember the when President Dole took power after Clinton couldn’t deliver health care reform?
Thomas Levenson
@kommrade reproductive vigor: Yeah. I read the Demintia and thought immediately of Obama as Wellington. His Waterloo wasn’t too bad….
Texas Dem
If we’d had double digit unemployment in 1996, Dole would have been elected president. Obama might arguably be able to survive a health care fiasco if the economy is doing reasonably well in 2012, but current economic indicators strongly suggest this will be a “jobless recovery.” (See Paul Krugman, etc.). The combination of high unemployment and the failure to enact the most important parts of Obama’s legislative agenda (no health care; no cap and trade; foot dragging on repeal of DADT, etc.), will give us President Romney or something equally frightening.
rachel
@arguingwithsignposts: “Anybody who supports universal healthcare, leave the room.”
(Almost everybody, except a few top generals and their aides, leaves.)
bob h
In the Dogpatch of a state that he represents, there are undoubtedly a great many people suffering from lack of healthcare or being bankrupted by the present system. Why is it acceptable for these people to have a hallucinating baboon representing them in the Senate?
matoko_chan
Dougj, conservatives are doomed and they are starting to realize it.
A couple of tiny innocuous statistics….6% of scientists are republicans which means for the math enabled that 94% of scientists are NOT-republicans. Also, the portion of the electorate with postgraduate degrees is exiting the GOP stage left.
Not that the GOP thinks they actually need intellectual elites, but this represents a two-stage downstream problem for conservatives.
Thing 1: 99.9% of all university professors are either research scientists that teach, or people with post-graduate degrees. Given that the youth vote is painting itself blue at the rate of 2:1, this is not good.
Thing 2: The young conservatives, presumeably those with college educations that are able to successfully speak and write and articulate those [mythical] conservative memetics…. are becoming vanishingly rare.
I allus say a tribe without reps can’t survive…..but what is more true, is that a tribe that can’t articulate its memes is doomed in a meritocratic electoral republic.