Re: John’s post below.
Rebranding the other party sounds silly until you think about how the media works. Last Sunday the popular news chat shows featured Dick Cheney, John McCain and Newt Gingrich. Although I don’t remember which, another recent show discussing Sonia Sotomayor invited…three Republicans. When Republicans control the government, major news shows skew Republican. When Democrats control the government the shows still lean right. Judging by the people in charge of scheduling these things, Americans really, really want to know what Republicans, who they hate, think about everything.
Let me explain how this will work. FOX News will work in the silly name at the margins, through crazy people like Glenn Beck and in the guise of ‘talking about it’ (a lot). Each Sunday Newt and John Boehner and (hey, why not) Tom DeLay will use the Nazified name as if they never used anything else. The host might quibble, at first, but how often do they want to talk about the same thing? Hosts mostly don’t challenge obvious lies or intentional goofs like using ‘Democrat’ as an adjective so it isn’t clear how many would even object.
After a while Roger Cohen and people like him will correct themselves to account for this new reality. “Democratic Party or Democrat Socialist Party? Opinions differ.”
Why not? The same trick already worked once.
DougJ
I don’t this kind of idiocy works any more. Yeah, they’ll get Richard Cohen and Chris Matthews to go along with it, but that doesn’t mean the population buys it.
Cat Lady
@DougJ:
In the credit where credit is due department, Chris Matthews called out Darrell Issa on Hardball one time about saying Democrat Party. I don’t think he’d play along.
bago
Lindsey: “The Army Field Manual was never designed to defend the nation from high value targets.”
He actually said this.
Now he’s arguing for indefinite detention as long as a judge is involved. “They’re looking at different options”. “Because this is a war without end”.
We will always be at war with Eastasia.
The Grand Panjandrum
I am sure this attempt at rebranding will attract the new voters they need to win elections. Young voters are waiting for just the right moment to jump in the pure distilled wingnut waters.
This picture has been around for a while but it’s worth a reprise.
DougJ
Exactly. What people don’t get is that today’s politics isn’t about riling up Chris Matthews’ cranky, chronically unemployed uncle (or mine, or that matter), it’s about Republicans not getting slaughtered too badly among younger voters and Latinos.
linda
tom delay’s an occasional guest on hardball, where tweety ‘loves the way (he) hates’…
funny how the tweetster never mentions hottub tom’s ongoing legal woes.
SpotWeld
The dems will have to focus on the rebranding itself, rather than the result.
i.e. “The GOP isn’t running a political party, it’s running a Madison Ave. Advertising outfit” (Which would be rather hypocrical, but that’s never stopped them).
The GOP wants to go back to a “Mad Men” type of world where a man could just throw up his hands and walk away from his past.
etc etc etc…
Total media noise, but it would subvert the GOP effort.
El Cid
And maybe the Republicans will succeed in having the American people resoundingly elect politicians whom Republicans say are Soci@alists, thus legitimizing Soci@lism in the USA in the eyes of the voters. Awesome Show! Great Job!
jenniebee
I don’t care if they put Obama in a dress and call him Loretta, he still can’t have babies (so what’s the point of drafting a resolution in support of him having babies if he still can’t have babies? Unless it’s to recognize his right to have babies, even though he can’t have babies which is nobody’s fault, not even the Romans)
Labeling can influence reality, but reality also influences labeling. Republicans are in at least as much danger of making socialism palatable as Democrats are of being mistaken for the political arm of the Swedish Bikini Team.
bago
Seriously, did anyone catch the post hearing coverage being streamed on the web? Lindsey Grahm literally said “This is a war without end.” As in he has just abrogated the entire constitution with an undeclared war that permits anything as long as the administration can find a judge to agree with them. I don’t think the founders ever quite foresaw the congress advocating for complete irrelevance when doing the whole separation of powers bit.
SpotWeld
… in order for this to work, right right message boards and email lists are going to have to open themsevles up for of ci@lis spam.
Good!
Notorious P.A.T.
Step 1: Rebrand the Democratic Party as the “Democrat Socialist Party”.
Step 2: ? ? ? ? ?
Step 3: Victory!
AhabTRuler
Put me down for believing this one won’t work. Too many people are worried about where they’ll be in a month, much less a year. The Dems could name themselves the Defeat-O-Crats and people would still know which party has any ideas. It’s obvious that the Republicans are floundering right now.
AhabTRuler
Ummm, for them, it isn’t spam.
Notorious P.A.T.
@The Grand Panjandrum:
Haha ) The first time I saw that picture, I didn’t notice it said “clearance” on top. Thanks for reposting it.
Notorious P.A.T.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/27/national/main1753947.shtml
sparky
@AhabTRuler: true, but i think you are underestimating them, in a sense. the horizon is 2010 or 2012, and if they keep repeating this crap it may take hold. the american public has (maybe) the attention of a grasshopper.
jenniebee
seriously, the ci@lis screening, if you let ‘ci@lis’ through but screen out ‘ ci@lis’ and ‘ci@lis ‘ so that you’re letting it through if it falls in the middle of another word, you will be saving yourself a lot of grief.
sparky
@Notorious P.A.T.:
step 2 = victory
step 3 = profit.
let’s keep our priorities in order, shall we? aka who cares what step 1 is.
note: the above applies only to the Party. the Owners are already at step 3.
Maude
OT – Obama is blocking the torture photos.
Concern about US troops in Iraq and Afganistan.
I hope the Obama administration loses in court.
The people in Iraq and Afganistan know about the torture.
It won’t help to cover this up.
It seems a lot of people think torture is some mild form of questioning. The photos would disprove that.
Anyone upset about this?
AhabTRuler
@Notorious P.A.T.: QED.
SpotWeld
Which would rather be called… the part of Soci@ists.. or the part of ci@lis? (Intert Bob Dole + Vi@gr@ joke here)
Zifnab
First Amendment!
ImJohnGalt
A dream I have:
Chris Matthews: Tonight we have John Boehner joining us to talk about the Republican response to the 2010 budget just submitted for Congressional approval by the Obama Administration. Mr. Boehner, thanks for coming tonight.
Boehner: Thanks Chris, glad to be here.
Matthews: The Obama Administration has proposed modest cuts to military spending in this new budget, specifically to programs that have been pinpointed as ineffective. In addition, they’re increasing funding for the VA, in light of the increased casualties among our troops. What’s the reaction among your colleagues to these proposals?
Boehner: Well Chris, the Democrat Socialist Party has long been about distributing the wea..
Matthews: Stop.
Boehner: What?
Matthews: Get off my show. Now. Just go.
Boehner: But..
Matthews: No. You are clearly an unserious person, and are just wasting everyone’s time by being here. Tell your colleagues that when they’re ready to behave like adults with an important responsibility, we’ll book them. Until then, you’re all dead to me.
Seriously, I’d pay good money to see that.
Zifnab
Meanwhile, the economy and health care and our two-front Asian land war and taxes and education and natural disasters and a vast assortment of other major issues will continue to come up whether the GOP wants them to or not.
Calling the Democrats names isn’t going to rally / kill the DJIA. No one is going to solve unemployment with an epithet. And screaming “Socailist! Socailist! Socailist!” on the floor of the Capital building or in the Meet the Press studio room won’t sway too many hearts and minds on the various bills that come to the floor or the judges / cabinet members up for nomination.
It’s going to be something the GOP plays up on the margins, but its not the sort of thing that wins votes all by its lonesome. The GOP needs a plan – like HMOs in ’94 or popular tax cuts like in ’80 and ’00 or national security like in ’02 and ’04 – that they can run that is popular, such that when Dems oppose it they can say, “Oh well you’re just a bunch of Socailists”. But all the media exposure in the world isn’t going to actually sell the smear if it doesn’t have some policy at its back. Otherwise, what are you voting on besides nametags?
AhabTRuler
@sparky: 1 of 2 things happens:
1. the American public laughs this crap off as the joke that it is.
2. the American people accept the renaming and as such the term Democrat Soçiầlist will cease to have any real threat anymore.
Either way, one day the Democrats will screw up enough, and the Republicans will pull their heads out of their asses and get a clue. But I bet that the latter will be more important than the former for a long time to come.
Notorious P.A.T.
Me.
c u n d gulag
OK, we start calling them The Whig Party! It is their root party. And it sounds white and old. Perfect!!!
AhabTRuler
@sparky: 1 of 2 things happens:
1. the American public laughs this crap off as the joke that it is.
2. the American people accept the renaming and as such the term Democrat Soçiầlist will cease to have any real threat anymore.
Either way, one day the Democrats will screw up enough, and the Republicans will pull their heads out of their asses and get a clue. But I bet that the latter will be more important than the former for a long time to come.
Edit: Motherfucking shớệs! This soçiầlism crap is killing me, it’s one of my favorite words!
jrg
@El Cid:
Dollars to doughnuts, this is exactly what will happen. Fifteen years ago, this would have really freaked me out, but I have been screwed over so many times by so-called “capitalists”, I no longer give a fuck.
If “soci@lism” means that everyone outside of Wall St or a corporate boardroom will be treated as more than a dreg of society, I welcome the change.
Joshua Norton
The New American Republicker Fascist Party.
“They don’t call us stupid for nothing.”
JGabriel
jenniebee:
The Swedish Bikini Team has a political arm? Can I vote for them?
.
Notorious P.A.T.
Dang Ahab, where did you find that a with 2 accent marks above it?
DanSmoot'sGhost
Let them call us whatever they want. “Arrogant Elitist Asshole Party” for example. For one thing, it’s more accurate than Democrat Socialist, and it’s more descriptive too.
It doesn’t matter what they call us. If name calling were the secret to them getting ahead, they’d have 65 senate seats and President McCain right now.
This is silly nonsense mainly because outside of their little clique, nobody gives a shit what they do.
DanSmoot'sGhost
Duplicate comment:
Let them call us whatever they want. “Arrogant Elitist Asshole Party” for example. For one thing, it’s more accurate than Democrat Socialist, and it’s more descriptive too.
It doesn’t matter what they call us. If name calling were the secret to them getting ahead, they’d have 65 senate seats and President McCain right now.
This is silly nonsense mainly because outside of their little clique, nobody gives a shit what they do.
AhabTRuler
@Notorious P.A.T.:Your friend & mine! :-)
Notorious P.A.T.
I stopped believing in capitalism when I realized the people who preached it did not believe in it. You can holler about “free market this” and “laissez-faire that”, but if you go to the government begging for a bailout when your company goes under, it’s obvious where you really stand.
CalD
I really think this sort of thing plays best, when anyone (who isn’t already hearing voices):
a) has the faintest idea what you’re raving about and/or
b) still believes a word that you say.
Until such time as the Radical Right Wing is able to rebuild even the thinnest shred of credibility among the saner segments of the voting population, I’m thinking the crazier they talk the less attention anyone but political junkies will be paying them. You might try just ignoring them — for now, at least.
DanSmoot'sGhost
Can’t you guys fix this crummy website? A political blog that can’t handle the word “soci@list?”
Give me a fucking break.
Again I will try this goddam post:
Duplicate comment:
Let them call us whatever they want. “Arrogant Elitist Asshole Party” for example. For one thing, it’s more accurate than Democrat Soci@list, and it’s more descriptive too.
It doesn’t matter what they call us. If name calling were the secret to them getting ahead, they’d have 65 senate seats and President McCain right now.
This is silly nonsense mainly because outside of their little clique, nobody gives a shit what they do.
bago
charmap.exe is your friend.
TenguPhule
Of course not, we require a regular upkeep in Soros checks and slightly used virgins.
Notorious P.A.T.
Of course. Wikipedia should always be my first guess.
TenguPhule
Water that’s gone through that many kidneys has got to be pure.
(Shamelessly mimed from Terry Prachett)
Ash Can
@Maude: I agree, and I too hope he loses in court. However, I can’t say that I’m upset about it, because I recognize the political value of this move. And Obama, for better and for worse, is a politician, and a big-league one to boot. Whether or not he’s sincere about the protect-the-troops excuse, it’s nevertheless a reasonable one, and gives his admin political cover with the wide middle ground. The Bush admin, on the other hand, would never have gotten any political capital out of such an excuse, since it would be seen by everyone but the 28% dead-enders as a lame attempt at CYA. Moreover, I’m curious about whether Obama made this decision after viewing the photos himself. It makes me wonder if he saw the photos, decided that they would be a substantial impetus toward prosecution (or, at least, public support of prosecution), and wanted to pre-emptively position himself as not necessarily in favor of prosecution, but having no choice but to go along with it. Political posturing, granted, but in light of the lasting psychological impact of the Clinton impeachment probably the best (if not only) way to play the game nowadays.
Having said that, I reiterate that I too hope he’s overruled, and that the photos are made public. I also emphasize that I do not believe myself that political posturing should ever be, under any circumstances, preferable to the rule of law. What I’m saying is that I’m willing to acknowledge that (unfortunately) extenuating circumstances may be coming into play here, and that my fondest hope is that Obama is playing some political chess here and that the worst that will result from his decision is that any prosecution that may ultimately take place will merely be slightly delayed.
flounder
People under the age of 40 already lack a working definition for Socialism, so calling a bunch of wishy-washy, do-nothings like Harry Reid and DiFi “Socialists” will probably just make things all that more confusing.
CalD
PS: Thanks a lot, RNC. Now I can’t shake the image of Jeff Bridges running around raving about Nihilists in The Big Lebowski.
harlana pepper
Amazingly, I saw Chris Matthews burn some repube congressman (can’t remember who) one night about the whole “Democrat party” thing, which was the first time I’d EVER heard anybody say anything about it, lo these many years.
harlana pepper
@flounder: heh
Senyordave
Boehner: Well Chris, the Democrat Socialist Party has long been about distributing the wea..
Matthews: Stop.
Boehner: What?
Matthews: Get off my show. Now. Just go.
Boehner: But..
Matthews: No. You are clearly an unserious person, and are just wasting everyone’s time by being here. Tell your colleagues that when they’re ready to behave like adults with an important responsibility, we’ll book them. Until then, you’re all dead to me.
ImJohnGalt,
A variation could be that suddenly the giant Monty Python foot squashes him, and Matthews could just go, “Next”.
Blue Raven
@CalD:
“Say what you like about the tenets of National Soci@lism…”
Perfect. The GOP is self-Godwinning.
harlana pepper
@Cat Lady: Thank you, Cat Lady, I could not remember who it was and it makes me happy to now remember it was Issa.
Maude
@Ash Can: Thanks so much for your post. I don’t ever want to see the photos. Do you think that they will be held for a court proceeding?
Also, would the release just incite the wingnuts to foam at the mouth and divert attention from the main issue?
My concern is that those who think that torture is just dandy, will win the public relations game.
What a hell the Bush administration has left us in.
NonWonderDog
People, it’s very, very easy to get around the “cialis” filter. You don’t have to use the character map, you don’t need to use the @ character, all you need is the soft hyphen. Instead of typing “socialist,” type “social­ist.”
The soft hyphen character (­) is completely invisible except at the end of a justified line, where it signifies where to place the break in the word. Theoretically, that is; most browsers ignore the soft hyphen altogether, and its only purpose is to get around word filters.
Mark S.
Geez, this makes the “budget” the Republicans proposed with all the nice bubbles seem like the work of a Machiavellian genius. This is the stupidest thing any political party has ever done, and it will only be topped by whatever they do next week.
An “extraordinary special” session in order to call their opponents poopyheads and “to urge Republican lawmakers to reject earmarks and to commend them for opposing ‘bailouts and reckless spending bills'”? This requires an “extraordinary special meeting”, when they were scheduled to meet in two months anyway?
kay
@Maude:
The detainee photos were used as evidence in administrative hearings on detainee abuse.
The cases are concluded (which is why it was even imaginable to release evidence).
Because these cases were reviewed at an administrative hearing, the results of those hearings were not and will not be made public.
Ash Can
@Maude: I have no idea what will become of the photos, whether they’ll end up involved in any court proceedings, or anything. I was just speculating in my post, and indulging in no small amount of wishful thinking. Regarding inciting the wingnuts, I’m not convinced that there are enough sufficiently sane ones to create an effective diversion from the main issue, but once again I’m just guessing.
I have in the past, through studies and internships, seen firsthand how the wheels of power grind in DC. Ironically but not surprisingly, one of the main things I learned from this experience is that unless you have access to the meetings that take place behind closed doors, it’s generally impossible to know what will happen in federal politics until after the fact, and even then who knows when, or if, all of the facts will ever be revealed. That leaves the rest of us the role of Monday morning quarterbacking. I find it fun, to be sure, but I can’t avoid the fact that my analysis of Obama’s thought processes plus a buck and a quarter won’t get anyone anything more than a decent cup of joe.
ETA: Case in point: Kay was able to furnish far more substance than I just now on the subject of the use of the photos in legal proceedings. Thanks, kay.
sparky
@AhabTRuler: fair enough. but i think you are underestimating how powerful repetitive destruction of the language can be. namecalling isn’t going to get you into the majority by itself, but every little bit helps. and they certainly destroyed the term liberal.
Mark S.
Wow, you can read the resolution in all of its breathtaking stupidity here.
I love how they start off by quoting the American Heritage Dictionary like it’s a high school civics paper.
CWD
This:
Reminds me of this:
I can feel the desperate crazy.
Maude
@kay: So what does this mean as far as pursuing torture cases?
The ACLU won the case to release to the public those photos that proved that the “abuse” was used in other military detention centers. Had Obama not blocked this, the pix would be out by May 28th.
This is an international law as well.
The photos are evidence.
I don’t understand about the administrative hearing. Are you talking about the civil federal process?
I’m afraid that we are going to be stuck with the reputation of torture.
This will make US citizens less safe when they travel outside of the US.
Slappy Stevens
I’d suggest that the origin of this thing goes back at least to 1993, I think, when Newt wrote his infamous memo. Republicans who sling mud make for better ratings than Democrats who don’t, and as far as the media is concerned it makes more sense financially to provide entertainment than information. Leaning right has nothing to do with it. (With the exception of Faux news, of course)
Gus
@Maude: I for one am fucking livid.
flukebucket
I am so pissed off that I intend to vote for Gary Sinise in 2012.
asiangrrlMN
@Maude: Count me in the pissed off, I hope he gets overruled camp as well.
@bago: And he is supposed to be one of the ‘moderates’. Stupid idiot. Citing an article that says torture works that has been debunked. Doubly-stupid.
The name Democratic Soc i a list Party might catch on, it might not. I am with jennibee in that right now, Obama and the Dems are popular enough to make soc i a list look good. It won’t matter what the GOP call the Dems as long as the GOP keeps shooting blanks.
kay
@Maude:
First, I don’t think you can conflate detainee abuse with torture. While all torture is detainee abuse, not all detainee abuse is torture.
It is my understanding that these photos were used in DOD administrative hearings on detainee issues. They didn’t reach criminal charges.
The way I personally was hoping the photos would be used was to petition for a retrial or appeal on those soldiers who were convicted on detainee abuse criminal charges. The argument would be that they were not “bad apples” and instead were following orders, as evidenced by how widespread the abuse was. That’s why I personally wanted the photos.
I haven’t decided how I feel about the release of the photos for other reasons.
kay
@kay:
I read what I wrote and I don’t want to leave the impression that I am somehow diminishing detainee abuse. I feel quite strongly that prisoners who are in custody should never, ever be brutalized or treated harshly in any way.
In custody means the custodian is responsible for the prisoners. We put them there. They’re ours, as long as we have made them defenseless, and prisoners are defenseless. They’re us.
Its a basic tenet of civil society that you don’t hit people who can’t hit back, just because you can. In my personal opinion, detainee abuse indicates a complete breakdown of the most basic human values . It’s akin to child abuse.
It’s not always torture though. Torture is torture. We have a definition.
kay
I also think it is all but inevitable that there will be a domestic torture issue, there is case law, it’s happened before, where the state has tortured prisoners to garner information (Mississippi and Texas).
I have no freaking idea how the state distinguishes between the torture that is prosecuted and the torture that is condoned.
It’s a sad joke. They’ve succeeded in making a mockery of the whole idea of bringing in some deputy sheriff on torture allegations.
Comrade Stuck
I try to leave, and they just keep pulling me back in.
JenJen
So, I’ve noticed this new meme popping up with real-life conservatives, maybe it was on Rush or something? Anyhow, it goes something like this:
“If you approve of President Obama’s continuation of President Bush’s Predator Drone Attacks Program, then how can you have a problem with waterboarding? So it’s OK with you to blow up hundreds of people, but it’s not OK with you to splash water on some terrorist’s face?”
What is that about? I really don’t even know how/where to begin with this. Anyone have any fun tips? It’s an f’d-up diversion to be sure, but it seemed to come out of nowhere, and now every little wingnut I know seems “armed” with this “argument.”
JWW
Tim,
Never needed an answer yesterday have you? I have never lead this country, nor have you. I have needed an answer(as in right now) too save lives.
If the day comes when you need an answer now(to save your life or somebody you love)! Just forgive yourself.
I will…
Randy Paul
That’s Richard, not Roger Cohen. Roger isn’t always on target, but he has about a million times the brainpower of Richard Cohen
Mike D.
Roger Cohen? Do you mean Richard Cohen?