Things Change
Mitt Romney pens an op-ed calling for more tax cuts and closes with the following:
And finally, let’s exercise restraint in the size of the stimulus package. Last year, with the economy already faltering, I proposed a stimulus of $233 billion. The Washington Post said: “Romney’s plan is way too big.” So what critique will the media have for the size of the Obama package?
From January 18th, 2008, the Reuters coverage of Romney’s stimulus package of (SURPRISE!) tax cuts:
Weighing in on a debate about stimulating the slowing U.S. economy, Republican presidential contender Mitt Romney is calling for a package of tax breaks expected to cost $250 billion, an aide said on Friday.The former Massachusetts governor’s package centered on several permanent tax cuts, rather than temporary rebates and spending programs favored by others engaged in the stimulus discussion in Washington and on the campaign trail.
A comparison:
Unemployment Rate in January 2008- 4.9%
Dow Jones on January 18th, 2008- 12,159.94
Unemployment Rate in January 2009: 7.6%
Dow Jones on January 19th, 2009: 8,281.22
Since your stimulus package proposal, Mitt, the DOW has dropped 4k, unemployment has jumped almost three percent, numerous banks and financial institutions have crashed, trillions in market wealth have vaporized, several million people have lost their jobs, and on an on.
In other words, things change. This isn’t the “liberal” Washington Post out to get you.
tbogg
But Mitt! is still wearing the same magic underwear.
cleek
Mitt Romney: solving last year’s problems today!
Rick Taylor
It is unfathomable that not only was this man one of the main Republican contenders for the Presidency, but he was arguably one of their strongest candidates with respect to the economy.
Rick Taylor
Gosh! Leaving aside the whole question of tax cuts versus spending, what do you suppose could possibly have happened between then and now to explain why what was considered profligate might now be considered vitally necessary? Hmmmmmm. . . .
Wow. This person could have been President.
Suicidal Zebra
"So what critique will the media have for the size of the Obama package?"
"This is Huge!".
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist
OT, mostly.
9/11/01 changed everything.
1/20/09 changed it back.
That’s all you need to know about change!
norbizness
And that’s one day Mittens the Kitten won’t soon forget!
TenguPhule
Fixed.
TenguPhule
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
Binkyboy
I don’t quite understand JC’s commentary on the quotes, but I do understand this:
Plans that rely on tax cuts as the main stimulus hate puppies.
Perry Como
Vitter is on the senate floor railing about ACORN. Lulz!
Wisdom
@cleek:
Or attempting to solve this year’s problems last year, when it would have made a difference. That you advertise your ignorance of his forsight does not make you witty, it makes you witless.
greynoldsct00
Maybe an organized mailing of diapers to his office might shut him up a bit?
Comrade Kevin
@Wisdom:
Did you miss this part?
Quit pretending that Romney had anything approximating "forsight" (sic). What he was suggesting was bullshit then, and it’s bullshit now.
A pretty good rule of thumb: If someone chooses something like "Wisdom" for their handle, chances are they’re going to dispense something else.
lilly Von Schtupp
I think we should suggest Vitter wear the diapers on his head this time. Disclaimer: I don’t mean the little one.
cleek
foresight… ? please, show us all where Romney predicted the current situation.
i’d be surprised if you can show us a single time before October 08 where he spoke of the economy in anything but glowing terms. it would be violating a GOP commandment if he did…
Perry Como
Depends.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
@Perry Como: /thread
Binkyboy
Actually, who let Mitt Romney think he was relevant?
J.
I bet Mitt’s package wasn’t or isn’t nearly as stimulating as Eliot Spitzer’s. ; )
The Moar You Know
Reality has a liberal bias.
BDeevDad
I’ll say this for Mitt’s column: It’s shovel ready.
Wisdom
@Comrade Kevin: If tax cuts were "bullshit" then, why does Obama’s stimulus have so many of them now?
I know you liberals never have to maintain any kind of philosophical consistency, in fact it is a trademark of your kind to flip-flop, but we would respect you more if you at least demanded tax increases to pay for your grand social experiments.
magisterludi
I think it was Tengu who posted recently saying we don’t have parties, we have factions. Very true and very dangerous.
If we get out of this without MAJOR civil disturbances it will be a miracle. On the local news there are stories of apologizing robbers- " I’m sorry, but i need the money for my kids!" and food banks running out of supply.
My sister asked me what the stimulus would do for her (she’s a recovering republican). I said that, hopefully, we can stave off losing police protection and emergency services and general mass suffering until we find a new economy. She looked at me like I was crazy- that couldn’t happen HERE.
I’m afraid she’s in for a rude awakening.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
@Wisdom: We salute you for your efforts, noble wingnut. Without your strict adherence to the same blinkered ideology that got us into this mess, you and your ilk wouldn’t be literally careening into 28%.
WHARRGBBLL on, loyal soldier! WHARRGBBLL on!
Zifnab
What’s up with Republicans? Can’t they just keep their minds out of the gutter for a full Op-Ed piece? I mean, really.
Dave
@Wisdom:
Don’t try to be clever. You know damn well the type of cuts in Obama’s plan and what Senor Mittens was proposing are two different things.
You know what we’d like, Wisdom? For the fucktards who drove this country into a ditch the past eight years to get a clue and to shut up. We tried your way. It failed. Now let the reality-based party get to work.
cleek
looks like Wisdom just got herself a job at the pie factory.
who says the job market sucks ?!
Zifnab
@Comrade Kevin: Dude. Kevin. Romney’s plan would have worked. You know how I know? Cause it had tax cuts in it. Tax cuts always work. AL-WAYS.
If we’d cut $250 billion in corporate and capital gains taxes, we could have kept the bubble up for at least another month or two. And that would have taken us over the election season. At which point who gives a fuck? Permanent Majority! Hurray!
Reverend Dennis
Oh yes, I remember the series of plain-language speeches in which Romney pointed out the dangers of pig-in-a-poke investment vehicles, the precariousness of over-leveraging and the potential for disaster in the byzantine network of credit default swaps. Not! Romney only mentioned tax cuts because he’s just another wind-up doctrinaire Republican. He has about as much foresight as G.W. Bush blundering into Iraq.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
@cleek: In the pie filter already? I was going to wait for his pearls of wisdom about how we should replace the carrier fleet with more battleships and how we should have never replaced the vacuum tube.
Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist
A pretty good rule of thumb: If someone chooses something like "Wisdom" for their handle, chances are they’re going to dispense something else.
Yup.
Cf. "The Truth" that infests Sadly, No!
Wisdom
@cleek: You liberals are just amazing in your biases.
...
would permanently reduce the rate for the lowest income tax bracket to 7.5 percent from 10 percent, retroactive to 2007.
...
Romney said he would eliminate Social Security payroll taxes for workers over 65, a move he estimates would save elderly workers $10 billion and their employers $10 billion while encouraging older workers to stay in the workforce.
An elimination of capital gains and dividend taxes on households earning less than $200,000 a year would generate $32 billion in savings for taxpayers, he added.
Now back to our regularly scheduled leftist fingers-in-ear, "neener neener neener" screaming.
TenguPhule
Twas not I.
I think you’re thinking of someone else.
Zifnab
However, it’s worth noting that Romney hires illegal workers. So his plan wouldn’t have worked. Because the Guatamalans were working for him.
Also worth noting. Romney is a dirty tax cheat. Therefore, all his ideas are null and void.
Can you imagine that, folks? The Republicans would be up in arms if this guy got within 100 miles national policy. No one is going to take him seriously now.
TenguPhule
Some to attract Republican votes.
Some to actually target people who work and spend.
And some because some Democrats are no better then Republicans.
srv
Mitts plan actually cut lowest bracket 25%
TenguPhule
Wisdumb indeed.
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
The economy is thriving: TAX CUTS! Nothing but TAX CUTS!
The economy is tanking: TAX CUTS! Nothing but TAX CUTS!
When all your other policies have failed and TAX CUTS! Nothing but TAX CUTS! is the only tool left, everything looks like a nail. Or something like that.
Zifnab
@Wisdom:
Oh really? I wonder who would benefit most from that?
TenguPhule
So let’s think this through, you dumb shit.
CEO gets stock options totaling $50,000,000 that he can call during his career.
He gets a salary of say, $50,000.
Every year, he uses part of his options to make $149,999.99 in capital gains profit.
He pays no federal income taxes taxes.
He only pays SS and MC on $50,000.
See the problem yet?
cleek
@Doug H. (Fausto no more): "In the pie filter already? "
the management at Pie Inc. knows good talent when they see it.
Joshua Norton
Repugs say that no one buys them nice things. They haz a sad.
ppcli
Speaking of "things change", how about this little gem from Kyl on the executive pay cap:
Not a good thing in America to tell a company what it can pay its employees, eh? Where the f*ck were you when the Senate was holding a gun to the UAW’s head to cut Detroit autoworkers salaries? Oh, I remember: you were all for it!
.
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
Dave
@TenguPhule:
Wisdom and the GOP don’t see the problem. To them, it isn’t a problem at all.
cleek
anyone pushing a lower capital gains tax as stimulus should be required to list the chief ways people run into the CG tax and then explain how lowering the CG tax will have any substantial short-term effect.
(hint: the stock and real-estate markets aren’t exactly rocking these days)
jrg
I’ve got a good idea for a grand social experiment! Let’s spread "democracy" to the middle east. It should only cost a few trillion dollars.
Another good idea for a social experiment: let’s fund government groups to tell people not to have sex. Just because every ancestor of everyone on earth did at some point does not mean it’s part of human nature.
Every time a Republican is in office, we waste hundreds of billions (if not trillions) of dollars on moronic crap. Now you’re whining about spending that actually benefits taxpayers.
lutton
Last year…I proposed me for president. Whaa happen’d?
John PM
@Wisdom: #33
You left out these important points from the story:
A few questions:
1) How would Romney have implemented these tax cuts by the end of February 2008 since he was not yet president?
2) If he meant they should be implemented within 30 days of him taking office as president, then doesn’t this lend urgent support to President Obama’s plan?
3) Since Romney was only proposing $49 billion in tax cuts, and Obama is proposing $270 billion in tax cuts, doesn’t this mean that Obama’s plan is five times better than Romney’s plan?
4) IIRC, at the time Romney made this statement, weren’t we already in a recession, but the Republicans simply refused to acknowledge this fact?
5) How would $400 to every person have prevented the current financial crisis, especially considering the stimulus rebate check, which were more substantial, did nothing to stop the crisis?
6) Since we are now in a recession, and since Romney admitted one year ago that if we go into a recession the cost to government would be a lot larger, then doesn’t this lead to the inference that the cost of Obama’s plan is necessary to get us out of the recession?
7) Ahomosaywhat?
Thoughtcrime
Mitt Romney is seizing the opportunity to capitalize on his area of expertise – destroying jobs.
Reverend Dennis
Funny, I don’t recall any of the Republicans calling for the Big Three’s taxes to be lowered to make them more competitive either. Nor did they call for UHC in order to make American industry in general more competitive with the rest of the industrialized world either. That last because we know that UHC would keep us from choosing our own
doctorEmergency Room.Zifnab
@jrg:
Fix’d.
Fix’d.
And you forgot, "Let’s privatize Social Security to the tune of $2 trillion and roll the whole damn thing into the stock market so people can make all the sweet sweet investment returns that only Wall Street can bring." I mean, it didn’t get implemented, but sure as hell it wasn’t for lack of trying.
Also might not hurt to mention No Child Left Behind, The Dick Cheney Energy Task Force, Medicare Plan D, or the multi-billion dollar boondoggle Bridge to Nowhere GOP infrastructure plan.
But, you know, at least the Republicans had the dignity to raise our taxes to pay for it all. Anything else would have been really irresponsible.
Zifnab
@John PM:
Wait, what?
The Grand Panjandrum
@Zifnab:
Rats! I got here about 35 minutes late.
The only thing I want Mitt’s advice on is how to tie my dog to the roof of my truck.
TenguPhule
Corrected for accuracy.
gbear
Is that you, Tim Pawlenty?
Tpaw is still trying to fix MN’s $5 billion shortfall with tax cuts. That plus the money that MN will get if Obama’s stimulus package passes.
How he can keep his brain from blasting in two is beyond me. He’s got some kind of neocon xian duct tape holding it together.
Joshua Norton
Doubt it.
Tom65
What’s next, Carly Fiorina whining about pay caps?
Oh, wait…
Calouste
@Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist:
There is a talk radio station in Seattle that calls itself "The Truth". Needless to say it features Rush Limbaugh amongst others of that ilk.
Zifnab
FIX’D!
Tsulagi
@Wisdom:
That’s funny on several levels. First, learn how to spell foresight, wisdom. Second, foresight associated with Mitty?
Pretty safe bet good ole Multiple Choice Mitt has a full range of “solutions” for every problem, and for every audience. Like a lot of socons in private (see wetsuits and dildoes, diapers, etc.), Mitty in public is kind of a different strokes for different folks type of guy. Just depends on the day, who’s asking, and who’s listening.
Josh Hueco
Our cabrasexual troll friends need to chill out and learn to relax like their buddy Ted Haggard did.
Calouste
@Doug H. (Fausto no more):
When all your other policies have failed and TAX CUTS! Nothing but TAX CUTS! is the only tool left, everything looks like a nail. Or something like that.
Also relevant in this regard: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results as the definition of insanity.
eclecticbrotha
Poor, poor Mittens. Envy much?
Mitt, haven’t you heard the old saying? "Once you go Barack, you never go back?"
Ed Drone
I say, "If you drive the car into the ditch, we’re keeping your hands off the steering wheel from now on!"
Mmmkay?
Ed
Mike in NC
Facts have that Liberal Bias thing going against them.
Notorious P.A.T.
Because that seems to be the only way to get Republicans on board. What do I win?
Notorious P.A.T.
I wonder how many people remember that when W first moved into the White House he said "gorsh, our gubmint has too much money! We gots ta lower taxes to get rid of it and put it back in people’s hands!"
Now that the government has no money, it’s "we gots to lower them taxes so’s the gubmint can get more money!"
Notorious P.A.T.
I would think that the global economy going over a cliff would be the bad thing that happened because of Wall Street excesses. But I guess Mr Kyl has enough saved up to take care of himself.
Svensker
How does "Wisdom" think we got into this mess?
Not enough tax cuts?
Not enough defense spending?
Too many Democrats in power?
Too many negroes owning houses?
Oh, if ONLY we’d listened to Mittsters last March! This recession would never have happened…
El Cid
If there were no taxes whatsoever on the rich, our economy would be a million times better right now.
It would be a billion times better if we gave the rich a negative tax rate, where we paid them more and more the richer they got.
Conservatively Liberal
Corrected the correction for accuracy.
AnneLaurie
Because it cannot be said too often: The financial acumen of Willard "Mitt!" Romney, "multimillionaire former venture capitalist, who is projecting an image of executive-style leadership", consists of using the multi-million-dollar trust fund he inherited to attend all the Right Schools and network all the Right Contacts. Eventually, some of the other soulless sociopaths in his Harvard MBA program recognized Willard as the perfect figurehead to grip’n’grin the other Mormon "stakeholders" and siphon their mandatory religious taxes (tithes) into Wall Street’s ongoing project to destroy America by hollowing out its production/manufacturing base and selling its citizens into serfdom, which further multiplied Mitt’s fortunes. Willard was such an excellent puppet for the Gordon Geckos that he became convinced of his own entitlement to become America’s Figurehead-in-Chief, which would net him far more media attention while not requiring him to give up his favorite frentic "sports leisure pursuits" for some boring desk-bound policy-wonk drudgery.
The only real difference between Willard "Mitt" Romney and George W. Bush is that Romney has never had a substance-abuse problem… that we know of.
pattonbt
I try not to think about it too much because I just get angry and there is nothing I can do (except what I always do – support good candidates and causes) but the tax cut thing drives me insane.
As someone above pointed out everything for the Republicans is tax cuts. Need money, cut taxes. Need less money, cut taxes. Have a headache, cut taxes. Problems with the misses, cut taxes. Cant get it up, cut taxes. Iranians bothering you, start useless war with Uzbekistan.
My dad taught my brother and I that paying taxes was a good thing – it meant you were doing well and helping maintain the great society that was the US and our community. Sure there would be some waste and abuse, but that would happen no matter what and it was up to us to support good people and programs.
But with the Republicans, the hypocrisy was always infuriating. I want balance and I want to see all sides of an argument, but the Republicans bring nothing but nonsense and hate. The Republicans say they hate government, they want to make it as small as possible. The best way to do this is starve it of cash – reduce revenues. Of course if you cant reduce expenditures along with it you will end up with a problem, but I digress. But then the Republicans go Orwell and try and say tax cuts actually generate revenue (which on its face is plain wrong, but for now I digress). So Republicans supporting tax cuts shows they either do not publicly support their desire to reduce government (because tax cuts raise revenue and therefore increase government) or there are just plain asshole liars. Shouldnt Republicans support tax raises since that obviously generate revenue as much as tax cuts? And less revenue means less government? My brain, does not compute.
The problem is, the only Republicans left in the party are the hardcore idiots from hardcore districts, the lunatics are in charge of the asylum. There is no young crop of conservatives waiting in the wings to modernize, humanize and maturize (Im pretty sure I made that word up) the party and its ideas. So the current Republicans can just drive themselves off a cliff and unfortunately take a lot of us with them. And since the media only reports a fight and needs to prop up the weaker side, they turn to these awful people with their discredited ideas and dont blink or mock when obvious mistruths are said.
Very sad. Im going over to Wonkette to regenrate my snark tank.
lizzy
The only thing that keeps me going is remembering when ALL the TV-trons kept counting Obama down and out. They would predict he lost the debates. And then the polling numbers would start coming in and the knuckle heads would go bonkers trying to figure out what the hell just happened! (My favorite is Pat Buchanan, whatever he says, the opposite occurs). The villagers are clueless. Thank God, for you orange-fingered Cheeto-chow-hounds keeping the rest of us informed
handy
@pattonbt:
So this raises the question about them: why the hell does anybody take these hardcore idiots seriously, as if they actually weren’t?