What with several wars and an economic meltdown and and unstable future for oil consumption, you would think there would be lots of things to worry about for our elected leaders and beltway insiders. You would be wrong. Apparently the first priority for the beltway boys is pissing off the nutroots. First, via the Jane Hamshers of the left, this from a staffer regarding the Lieberdrama:
Asked what it would mean if Lieberman kept his chairmanship, one Senate Democratic aide said bluntly: “The left has been foiled again. They can rant and rage but they still do not put the fear into folks to actually change their votes. Their influence would be in question.”
Next up, the WSJ argues that Obama, not Bush, should give Stephen Hadley the Medal of Freedom for “offering the option of victory in Iraq” (apparently we have won in Iraq again, which makes me wonder how many times we have to win the same damned war before we can end it and come home). At any rate, in their laughable sales pitch is the following:
Awarding Steve Hadley the Medal of Freedom would cost Mr. Obama nothing, save possibly a few howls from the Daily Kos. Surely it is not beyond a candidate who has already conceded that the surge has “succeeded beyond our wildest dreams” to bestow the Medal of Freedom on the public servant who made that success possible.
Greenwald noted earlier that there is a stiff and enthusiastic competition between Republicans and Democrats as to who can best get their hate on for “teh left,” and it is pretty clear that the consensus view in DC is that this is priority number one.
MattF
Left vs. Right is over, the new war is DFHs vs. Institutional Prerogatives. It’s not obvious where Obama stands, and that– I’m guessing here– is not an accident.
Balconesfault
I’m looking forward to hearing Mr. Dean’s thoughts on all of this, once he’s no longer committed to the job of telling people why they need to send money to the DNC.
WRT the President-elect … he can win over the roots by coming forward with a bold agenda from the start. If he plays at the margins while Congress trips over itself with timid incrementalism, there’s going to be a lot of mojo that was built up in the last couple years flushed down the toilets.
20-somethings who got involved in a big way are going to want to see results. There’s a window to convince them they made a difference, and it’ll be closed by summer.
jake 4 that 1
Offering the option? WTF is he some sort of waiter?
"Just a teeny tiny wafer thin mint."
Can we please dangle the doucheguzzler who wrote that piece over a vat of warm tar until he explains how one deserves a medal for offering a goddamned option.
Mr. Merle
Am I the only one surprised that Lieberman news has completely knocked this story out of pretty much any sort of blog coverage?
Zifnab
@MattF:
I have no idea where Obama stands and that’s half the reason I voted for him. At least with Obama there’s that hint of uncertainty. Everyone else was straight ticket douchebag.
Still, nice to know that no matter how things change, the US Senate remains the same pack of jackholes.
Punchy
Just watch their surprise when they stuggle to raise $150….dollars….in the next election.
That One - Cain
There sure is a lot of drama on daily kos. Kos is done with Reid. If I were Reid I’d watch out.. I expect Kos to make it his personal mission to fuck Reid over.
cain
smiley
Just heard Rush crowing about "the crackup" on the left. He even quoted the Jane Hamsher post you cited. He’s loving it.
Edmund Dantes
I’m hoping either TPM or GOS get to work sussing out the ones that voted to strip Lieberman so I can know which Senators deserve my Far Left money.
bootlegger
Now that the right wingnuts have painted Hussein Obama as a Dangerous Radical all he has to do is be a complete centrist to show them what’s up. That’ll show those wingnuts. Right? Right?
Doug H. (Comrade Fausto no more)
@Edmund Dantes: 43-12, so you don’t have to worry about sending it to too many Dems.
Notably in favor of Joe: Kerry, Durbin, and Tom Udall. Hmmm.
Doug H. (Comrade Fausto no more)
Meanwhile, all it takes is one ‘Senate Democratic aide’ to get the circular firing squad firing full-auto.
over_educated
Is it just me, or is this whole thing kind of a mountain out of a mole hill. I think reasonable people could disagree about whether it makes more sense to remove Lieberman from the chairmanship to punish him, or keep him there to ensure he caucuses with Democrats and supports a progressive agenda.
While I agree Lieberman is a D-bag, why all the histrionics? Theoretically if he acts too ridiculuous, couldn’t the Senate leadership remove him at any time? This incentizes him to fall in line.
Seriously, this kind of non-strategic thinking is what torpedoed the Republicans. I know we don’t like lieberman, but I would rather be 1 vote closer to a filibuster proof Senate majority than get revenge. We don’t need revenge, we won. We can affford to be magnanimous.
Napoleon
Amazing how the political and media elite make such a big deal about spurning the "left" while they ignore the rights support for, and actual institution of, torture and illegal surveillance.
By the way, I would be willing to bet anyone $1000 if there was some way to prove me right (and practically speaking there is not), that the "Senate Democratic aide" that is quoted in Cilia’s piece is in fact not technically a Democratic aide, but a Lieberman aide, Marshall Wittman.
EZSmirkzz
ceterum censeo Democratic Party esse delendam,
Jeff
@over_educated: I tend to agree. Every time Reid has a vote where Liebermann is wavering he just sends in someone to figuratively check the measurements of the chairman’s office for new furniture and drapes.
Tsulagi
Do the Party of Bushies have these guys trained or what!? It’s like they’ve got them trained to chase their own tail to bite it.
Just brilliant. Go ass up and fuck yourself because you’re balls-free then claim it’s to foil “the left” to show your toughness. May their personal battery operated buddies have pointy flag lapel pins on them.
Shit, it doesn’t matter whether it’s the Pubs or the Dems, I’m an evildoer.
4tehlulz
@Mr. Merle: Yes.
NR
@That One – Cain:
Is that snark? Kos has shown zero ability to fuck anyone over. See: The Connecticut Senate race, 2006.
Napoleon
@over_educated:
Not at all, if for no other reason to discourage others from doing the same thing in the future. That reason alone should have resulted in not a single person voting for Joe.
Combine that with the fact he not only did he campaign for McCain and smeared Obama in the process (and put that aside for a moment on the theory that on one individual candidate a member of the opposite side could feel that there is an overwhelming reason to break party ranks on that one candidate), Holy Joe actually campaigned for Republican Senate candidates. He was actively seeking to put the Dems in the minority or shrink their majority.
On top of all that keep in mind he was active in sticking it to Clinton during the Monica thing and has refused to properly act as chair of his committee and hold the administration to account. So what do they do, they reward him with one of the prime positions from which he could damage the incoming administration.
This is beyond incompetent.
eponymous coward
“The left has been foiled again. They can rant and rage but they still do not put the fear into folks to actually change their votes. Their influence would be in question.”
I will bet a large sum of money that the guy who said this is none other than The Bull(shit) Moose, aka Marshall Wittman (who’s gone on to be on Lieberman’s staff, and used to be on McCain’s staff).
He’s had a hardon againt the netroots for years (largely because they correctly identified his bullshit), and he’s a douchebag who loves to be quoted in the press and bashing liberals, so the MO fits.
Anyways, it’s funny how the netroots are ballistic about Reid (OMG MUST PRIMARY HIS ASS AND NOT ANOTHER DIME FOR SENATE DEMS!!11!!!! seems to sum up their train of thought right now, from Kos on down), and sort of ignoring that all indications are this is Saint Obama’s fault, and Reid & co. were simply following their President and party leader, similar to FISA.
I have a feeling this won’t be the only time the netroots will ignore the inconvenient truth that Obama’s not one of them, and will regularly disappoint them. I expect they will unleash hell on Reid, Pelosi, and so on- because we can’t dump on The One, can we?
low-tech cyclist
I don’t really give a flip that a bunch of centrist Dems want to piss off people like me. All I want them to do is fix the damn problems that our country has.
My problem with Lieberman is that it’s hard to see him NOT trying to throw multiple monkeywrenches in the works as Dems try to do just that. I’ll believe he’s reformed when he’s got a track record of working and playing well with Obama and the Dem caucus.
If he wants to thumb his nose at me while doing so, that’s fine, so long as he isn’t an obstacle to Democratic legislation.
Colonel Danite
The Left has not been foiled. Kos and Co need to relax and understand that having Lieberman as part of the caucus will make it easier to pass progessive legislation. Isn’t that the goal here? Joe has a 33% job approval rating and if he doesn’t become Obama’s best friend in the next 4 years, he’s gone.
eponymous coward
“The left has been foiled again. They can rant and rage but they still do not put the fear into folks to actually change their votes. Their influence would be in question.”
I will bet a large sum of money that the guy who said this is none other than The Bull(shit) Moose, aka Marshall Wittman (who’s gone on to be on Lieberman’s staff, and used to be on McCain’s staff).
He’s had a hardon againt the netroots for years (largely because they correctly identified his bullshit), and he’s a douchebag who loves to be quoted in the press, so the MO fits.
Anyways, it’s funny how the netroots are ballistic about Reid (OMG MUST PRIMARY HIS ASS AND NOT ANOTHER DIME FOR SENATE DEMS!!11!!!! seems to sum up their train of thought right now, from Kos on down), and sort of ignoring that all indications are this is Saint Obama’s fault, and Reid & co. were simply following their President and party leader, similar to FISA.
I have a feeling this won’t be the only time the netroots will ignore the inconvenient truth that Obama’s not one of them, and will regularly disappoint them. I expect they will unleash hell on Reid, Pelosi, and so on- because we can’t dump on The One, can we?
over_educated
@Napolean
:
Damn you face! Just for that you lose your nose!!!!!
brandon
Much as I’d like Lieberman to eat it, it’s pretty apparent that Obama doesn’t operate that way. Not that Obama won’t ever move against anybody ever, but he always gives his associates a chance to really go turncoat against him before he moves. Example – assuming it wasn’t a coordinated move – how Obama treated Jeremiah Wright during the campaign. First he stood with him, then Wright kept acting up, and then Obama cut him loose.
Of course, Lieberman’s already acted up about as much as possible, what with the campaigning for the other guy and all, but I guess Obama wants there to be a clean slate. Hope it works…
Napoleon
@NR:
I actually think this is a good example of Kos being able to do something, its just it will take 2 cycles for it to work. They knocked him out of the Dem ticket and based on how it has played out in the last 2 years it appears the electorate in Conn. has come to accept the lefts reasons for running him out. I think he is toast at re-election time. Plus even if you are looking at that race as another candidate who could be primaried, you are not going to think "Leiberman made it" but you are going to think "they came within a wisker of picking him off". Even Kos has said its not important to actually win all your races, just do good enough enough of the time to keep them looking over their shoulders.
In any event, Reid is not someone that is going to be as easy to pick off as Holy Joe, so that is a pipe dream.
Vincent
over_educated: it’s not about revenge. It’s about eliminating an obstacle to legislative reform. Now, it may be the case that caving into Lieberman accomplishes that. But what’s more likely is that the senator realizes the power he has and lords it over the rest of the caucus for having ‘the most important vote.’
Calouste
@That One – Cain:
Reid is up for reelection in 2010. He has just invited him a well funded primary challenger with a bunch of those Californians that were canvassing Nevada for Obama to work for him. Nevada is a low population state and the population is concentrated in only two cities, so they could have a lot of influence there. How far the real influence of the netroots reaches, we will only see in 2010.
Makes me think: Kos could run for Senate in California in 2010. I think he would have a decent chance.
Napoleon
First no-one of any importance was proposing that he get tossed from caucus.
Regardless, assuming he left on his own (which would effective end any chance of reelection he has) why would you think it would change his voting pattern on things? In order for you to believe that you have to believe that for no other reason but spite Holy Joe would change an entire carreer worth of voting for relatively progressive causes for the most part and become a right winger.
(PS – if he did prove to be that vindictive, that almost would prove the point on why it was wise to allow him to leave the caucus).
Geeno
To all those who think Lieberman’s our 60th vote to move progressive legislation forward, on what do you base that? He bent over backward in 2006 to show how progressive he could be, and flipped on every single campaign promise he made within 2 months of re-election. Obama campaigned for him in CT; you see how that played out. The man is a weasel with a grudge, now in charge of the single most powerful government oversight committee. In order to remove him a new forming resolution would have to pass the senate – do you think he’ll give the 60th vote for closure on that one? He is now free to order massive investigations into every lost paper clip if he wants.
gbear
Hmmm, why did Ralph Nader suddenly come to mind?
Politics is too local for Reid to loose his senate race over his mangement of the senate democrats.
Napoleon
It amazes me how the political pundit class is so completely illiterate on this point. Just yesterday on NPR some idiot like Ron Elbing (sp) said something like "if they don’t let Lieberman keep his chairmanship now he could cause the Dems to lose control of the Senate through the end of the term".
What a complete dumb f–k. Memo to pundit land – we don’t have the British Parliment and there is no such thing as motion of no confidence. For all practical purposes it is impossible to replace the leadership (including chairs) once voted in.
This was a potentially massive mistake on the part of the Dems.
Capelza Gradenko
Napoleon @ 14.
I agree here…the "Democratic aide" was likely a Lieberman aide.
Kos is being a dumbass on this. I agree completely with the sentiment, but then I’m on the outside looking in. The shrillness over there, and elsewhere is over the top.
Does Obama/Dem Senators have Lieberman by the balls now?
Who the hell knows, but the foaming at the mouth about it is making Rush Limbaugh and the other cretins very happy. This is bad.
Buck up, it was a report from AP, fucking AP….
I thought the election was long…January 20th seems like an eternity…stop the circular firing squad…
Rick Taylor
I didn’t want to see Lieberman loose his chairmanship because I have a grudge; I wanted him out because (1) he wasn’t doing a good job or running it and (2) it puts him in position to stab Democrats in the back. Now I hope senate Democrats are right and I’m wrong, but if I’m not, it’s not my back he’s going to be stabbing, so the thought that some Democrats think this is a good way to piss people like me off is a bit much.
4tehlulz
>>Kos is being a dumbass on this.
I would change that to purity troll myself.
HyperIon
Marshall Wittman is a jerk.
That is all.
Tymannosourus
Frankie says RELAX!
The Dems just put on a blowout of Cowboys vs. Bills proportions, and it was two weeks ago.
A lot of you need to work on your basking.
4tehlulz
@Tymannosourus: You just set off my n00b detector. Democrats don’t do basking….
Evinfuilt
Katrina Katrina Katrina
Anyone who voted to keep the scum who let those who failed in Katrina get away without even a single hearing. They failed the citizens of New Orleans as well.
I don’t care one bit about Holy Joe and Saint McCain. What I care about is that he completely neglected his job, and in return, he gets to keep it.
New Orleans, forgotten again.
Objective Scrutator
Are you guys rethinking the Republican proposition to have term limits for Senators yet?
Kos is a wiener, too. I borrowed his book from a friend, and all it is is shameless self-gloating and self-aggrandizing. He whines about ‘gatekeepers’ over and over again, yet isn’t he becoming one?
Tymannosourus
@4tehlulz:
I know, but this was a campaign of change, no?
At least everyone might want to smoke more weed in the meantime.
Chuck Butcher
If the 43/12 vote count is accurate, what exactly did you Reid bashers expect him to do about it? That’s about 14 votes to flip … in the Senate?
I don’t carry a brief for Reid one way or the other. I was disappointed that he didn’t make the (R) play out their filibusters on important issues. The excuse of getting business done doesn’t seem to fly in the face of what got done.
No, I don’t like Joe. At all.
Oh hell, I’m left – kick me some more, I’m used to it no matter who is in power.
That One - Cain
@NR:
More of an observation. I didn’t comment whether he would succeed or not. I’m just betting that Kos is going to go all out against Lieberman at some point.
cain
That One - Cain
Oops, I meant Reid, not Lieberman.
cain
C
He has no incentive to fall in line, because he HAS acted ridiculous, and they not only did not remove him, but actively ensured that he is back on the same committee.
The strategy is what’s torpedoing us RIGHT NOW.
He doesn’t deserve to be on that committee independent of the attacks. He’s not qualified or capable of making the right decisions.
And are you dumb? He has ACTIVELY stated that he is pro-fillibuster and will not provide that 60th vote.
Tsulagi
Well, according to Greenwald’s last update…
Just wonderful. I hope Dean was wrong about Obama calling the shots on this.
Vote Democratic! We keep our aged powder so fucking dry it sucks the moisture out of nearby rocks.
Scott H
Kossacks publish their positions and stick by them. So what? I enjoy their fear of Kos; it nourishes me. Feces flinging Congress monkeys entertain me.
What they need to fear, and they don’t even see it coming, is when Obama starts to crowdsource and flashmob. How many mobile addresses does he have in bank?
gbear
@Objective Scrutator:
No.
Ripley
Agreed that the lefty sites are coming unhinged over this. I consider myself part of the movement (ahem), but jebus, the degree to which Lieberman’s skating is being cast as a personal slight and indicative of how much the Dem establishment "hates us" is just too weird. It’s a particular narcissism, over a narcissist, and it empowers some dodgy elements: the wingnut loudmouths looking for a way to deflect attention from their own meltdown; the traditional media meme of the netroots as crazy, powerless children; and maybe worst of all, Joe Lieberman himself.
That said, yeah, Lieberman’s a douchebag, and willfully ineffectual as HS committee chair. Wish it’d gone differently; it didn’t. I trust the Obama administration beyond my own disappointment. I trust that the senate, ours now (again, finally) has better things in mind. Call it hope – remember that word?
Face
I hate being threatened with bodily harm, FWIW.
Nose
I’m the one who’s getting lost here.
That One - Cain
@Face:
**stab** **stab**
les
Question–’cause I really don’t know–is this vote just for the remainder of the current congress? Or is this for the next two years? I didn’t hear anything about competitions for leadership positions or anything, so I guess I thought positions for the coming session would be doled out when all the newbies arrive.
wingnuts to iraq
yeah, not wanting a guy who actively campaigned for Republicans whilst covering up for Bush as head of the Homeland Security sure is a purity test.
That One - Cain
Have I mentioned lately how awesome Marc Ambinder is? I just love his cool and even posts. No freak out there.
cain
Mnemosyne
I would not take that bet, because I strongly suspect you’re right. It’s the gloating about "foiling" the left that’s the tipoff.
Jesse
Anyone else see this as the next GOP ploy?
They’re trying to paint the Iraq situation as fixed before Obama takes office so that when the next set of bad news comes along they can point their collective finger at him as the one who screwed up.
tavella
I came pretty pre-disillusioned about Obama, so him pushing to kiss up to Lieberman doesn’t surprise me. He’s not a progressive; he’s center-right, and he likes to make that clear by chucking prominent left-wing interest groups under the bus to show that he’s not one of *those* Democrats. He did it to gays in the primaries by hiring a vicious homophobic preacher to MC fundraisers, which was a big reason why I didn’t vote for him in the primary. And then he had a shot at impressing me with the FISA vote, and he immediately caved on that. So I didn’t have any illusions that he was going do anything progressive.
I still voted for him and donated some money because center-right is better than foaming right wing, and more importantly he’s a competent center-right guy, and the government not being run by idiots will be a big improvement even if it’s still essentially conservative.
I’m somewhat darkly amused at DailyKos meeting reality, though. One of the reasons I stopped reading it in the primaries was because every thread turned into Clinton-bashing and Obama-worship.
Xenos
Marshall Wittman? No way it could be Dangerstein?
Either way, two first-class wankers. Just the sort of guys Lieberman surrounds himself with.
liberal
@les:
I thought it’s for the next congress, because Senators-elect voted.
JR
Is that snark? Kos has shown zero ability to fuck anyone over. See: The Connecticut Senate race, 2006.?
Kos was able to fuck Nader over, give him that. He is adept with the stiletto at midnight. Just yesterday he had two posts condemning Nader on his front page. He encourages it with talk like with this quote from yesterday: The Naderites have nothing to do with any Democratic majority. In fact, they are its enemy.
What an insult to people like myself who contribute, donate and vote for the "Good Cop" of this 2-party charade, to the concomitant benefit of DailyKos.com, and after having success–the host of the site calls down fire on fellow travelers.
I would say Kos is a question, judging by his instincts. He pulled this same kind of totalitarian crap at the end of the last election, jamming his site into primaries mode and slashing his blogroll and thereby cutting off the long tail of his "progressive" involvement. Maybe his actions look normal because we’re close to it, but stepping back the guy is indefensible. He is actively splintering the Progressives, and … why? I’m not doing a tinfoil thing, I just want to understand his motives and reasoning. It seems quite frankly counterproductive to the point of stupidity.
Whether it is meant or not, Kos is the voice of Lucy encouraging Charlie Brown to give the old Dems just one more chance. Right now the site’s most highly recommended diary is explaining the neeeeed to be pragmatic and give the Dems more time to build … and get elected … and have more power … even more… ever more… then they’ll do something, boy, that will be the good times then.
TheHatOnMyCat
We have already said this but this is another and pretty clear expression of the realities of the situation here.
With any luck, this would be the end of the topic, but around here, that requires a strong shotglass of optimism.
This story is over. Time to move on.
Comrade Jake
@TheHatOnMyCat:
Thanks for the link. I think the analysis is mostly right.
The thing that amazes me is that there are still people out there who haven’t caught on that Obama picks his battles. Lieberman wasn’t worth the effort. Full stop.
tavella
Except, of course, he chose this battle. It’s just that the battle he chose was to campaign for Lieberman to keep the chairmanship. If he had just shrugged and put no effort into it either way, it’d be a reasonable choice. But we have it straight from Dean that it was all Obama. So Lieberman *was* worth the effort to him. The effort to make sure that he got rewarded for backstabbing both Obama specifically and the Democrats generally.
rasscot
This bullshit is the reason people drift to fools like Nader.
Comrade Jake
@tavella:
Bullshit. I don’t define a battle as having to make a few phone calls. Obama barely needed to lift a finger to make this happen. He’s the guy who was most wronged by Lieberman, and he just let it go.
TheHatOnMyCat
I think the blog world attracts a disproportionate number of those people. The average guy on the street doesn’t give a damn about inside baseball stuff, he just wants the government to get something done and help him keep his life on track. My observation so far is that Obama gets this better than any politician I have seen up to now.
We have a legacy power structure that has a certain view of what power is and how it should be accrued and applied. I think Obama has a different view of that, and I think his approach is potentially kryptonite to the old style. Time will tell but so far he is doing exactly what I hoped he would do … just going around the old power structures and building new ones.
He’s the anti-Carter. And the anti-Rove.
Um, how many votes (about one half of one percent) did Nader just get, and WTF are you talking about?
A dog with a poodle cut could get that many votes.
Punchy
This aint Obama’s battle. Never was. It was Reid’s battle, and he capitulated. Gave up the power he himself possessed to chuck the dead weight and instead insisted on a "vote". Some leadership.
Chickenshit extraordinaire.
demimondian
@Comrade Jake: There’s a secondary decision that Obama made, and it’s "gosh, the left doesn’t have anywhere else to go." He Sister Souljah’d Kos — and Kos is PISSED.
Comrade Jake
@Punchy:
Normally I’d agree with you. But Howard Dean made it pretty clear today that this was Obama’s call. If it wasn’t, I’d be a little concerned actually.
Comrade Jake
@demimondian:
Oh, I realize that. Obama is going to continue to piss off the left in the coming days. Anyone who didn’t know this wasn’t paying attention during the election.
I’m fine with it, because I’m not interested in more of the usual BS, just with a different party in charge.
tavella
That’s fascinating logic. How is hating the left and trying to piss them off *not* "the same BS with a different party in charge"?
Comrade Jake
@tavella:
He doesn’t hate them, and he won’t be trying to piss them off. He’s just going to do some things that are going to really burn them, but aren’t that important in the big scheme of things. Lieberman’s treatment is a prime example.
There’ll be plenty of stuff he chooses to do the left will like. They definitely won’t be pleased, though, that he’ll choose to make compromises with the GOP from time to time along the way.
TheHatOnMyCat
Meh. I’m the left, and Obama isn’t pissing me off.
I’ve never been a lefty who thought that progressive policy depended on the left. I always thought it depended on selling progressive policy to the middle.
If there is one consistent theme in Obama’s worldview that comes through to me over and over again, it’s disdain for ideology as the basis for policy, and governance.
The desired coalition is us, the left, plus enough of the middle to make a majority. We don’t get that middle slice by making it think like we do. We get it by showing that we can better serve their interests than the other guys can.
If we were selling cars, the ideologues would be touting the one piece rod end caps used in the engine build. The Obamites would be touting job security and health security for families that are strapped trying to make ends meet.
That One - Cain
Dailykos has a nice transcript with a phone call with Dean. Dean’s being the adult and Jane Hamsher and others are being whiny kids. Jeezus. Get over it. I got over it, I would have stuck him under a bus and rolled over him a couple of times, but whatever.
As Dean said, we have much bigger battles to worry about and not chickenshit stuff like this. In the scheme of things I don’t really care what happens to Holy Joe. He’s better off laying low and doing his damn job. Barack owns his ass, and he knows it. Next election season, all the Pres has to do is endorse the person running against him and that is within his power.
Change also means the left needs to change too. And these battles are nothing more than distractions.. Kossacks should get over it and move on. (doh! where have I heard that before? :-) I’m interested in good healthcare and a better economy and getting government competent again.
cain
Comrade Jake
@TheHatOnMyCat:
I don’t mean to suggest he’ll piss off the entire left, just a good number of the type of folks who hang out over at the GOS.
I’ve always thought Obama’s goal has been to build a coalition of 60+ Senators. What will be interesting to me is to see if he tries to mix up the Republicans who are part of it from time to time.
Dennis - SGMM
I could give a flying fuck who gets appointed for what. Obama can appoint Zombie Ronald Reagan for Secretary of the Interior if he thinks that will get the job done. Obama is alternately pissing off the left and the right so he’s likely doing exactly what’s needed.
TheHatOnMyCat
Right, I got that. I was sort of talking about them.
Sorry for any confusion.
srv
At this rate, Obama’s honeymoon is going to end before he takes the oath.
Ed Marshall
Lieberman is a pathetic figure. The day after the election all I wanted to do was go scream at PUMA’s. Laugh at them, rub their noses in shit. It wasn’t satisfying. If Obama had that urge towards Joe that I indulged in, he’s an asshole like me and that’s not good anyway. Joe is nobody now. He’s Larry Johnson (who is right now trying to figure out a way to suck Obama dick and find some way into the SecState).
TheHatOnMyCat
Uh, what conversation are you having, and with whom do you think you are having it?
Give it up, crackhead.
Comrade Jake
@Ed Marshall:
NoQuarter is a fucking leper colony these days.
LiberalTarian
Dems are shooting themselves in the foot giving the "Jane Hamsher" left the finger.
Rahm Emanuel and crew like to give themselves a lot of credit, but the folks who actually get people fired up about the injustices from the right have been the DKos’s and Jane Hamshers.
If they take a lot of pleasure out of denying these folks, very active, inspired and motivated folks, of rewards for their service, the GOP isn’t going to be spending much time in the wilderness. The GOP base is famous for being stupid-as-fuck. The Dems in DC would be stupid-as-fuck to think they can just make promises to their dem base and have the dem base keep showing up.
If they don’t make a real show of not being Republican lite (which is essentially being just like Republicans but sneakier about it), why should we give them our donations and our time? And, why should we show up to vote? Are they really saying they don’t need us? Cuz if they don’t, well, all they have to do is what they’ve been doing. If our interest, time and $$$ don’t change things, we’re not the GOP base. We’ll learn from our mistakes.
And frankly, if Obama is dumb enough to think he doesn’t need the netroots on the left … well, can you say, "One term"?
gwangung
Question. Who are these "people" who get fired up? And how many "people" are they?
Because they certainly weren’t fired up enough to win an election in 2004 and they certainly weren’t numerous enough in 2004 to win an election. And it’s very problematic that these people were the key to an election in 2008.
pattonbt
The left, like Kos, need to learn to be adults and deal with periodic disappointment. They have a rightful place at the table, but Democrats are a herd of cats and there is no congealed left position to run from. They need to learn that they are right that the country isnt center right, but it sure as hell isnt left (in their definition).
Im left, right and center so no politician is ever going to cede to my each and every policy desire, nor pick the battles I would pick, nor be as progressive, conservative, libertarian, liberal as I can be on a diverse set of issues.
Personally, I would have pummeled Joe fetal, pissed on his face while he was down, taken photos to post on youtube and then invited everyone I know over to pile on his lumpy, listless body. But Im petty and vindictive. And I am ticked he seems to have escaped unscathed for what I see as abhorrent behaviour, but there are bigger fish to fry right now.
The more Obama shows he is calm, cool, adult, dispassionate, pragmatic and above the daily fray, the better. He’s shown to me that he’s got the long term on his brain and doesnt sweat the silly daily media cycle game. Winning that cycle sure worked wonders fo McCain and Clinton, didnt it.
gwangung
Hmp. They’re at the table. Win. They’re gonna win (nationally speaking) a bit more than they lose. Win.
Generally, that means you’re a political success in most senses of the term.
Conservatively Liberal
I knew the left would go into histrionics and start hyperventilating over stuff like this, and I am sure that Obama is aware that this was likely to happen. The far left, just like the far right, needs to learn that the world doesn’t revolve around them. There are more people in the center than there on the far left or right, and that is the way Obama intends to govern.
Do I agree with every Obama decision so far? Hell no. But I am no expert on what is right or wrong, I just have my opinions, Obama has his plans. He won the race, not me, I just helped him get there. He just ran a campaign that will go down as the greatest one in history, so I think he just might be worth trusting in his decision making. Results are what matter, and people are concerned with what road we take versus the one Obama has planned.
I will wait for results, whatever they are, to complain about or praise Obama. He knows that he has to work within the existing framework, and he is taking that into account. Hillary as Secretary of State? Well, since Obama will be her boss then I see nothing wrong with it.
Obama surrounds himself with people who can give him information, yet he is the one who decides what path to take. Wait until we see some real direction before you complain, right now any complaints are just jumping the gun. Obama will be leading this administration, and I have a feeling that he is strong enough to direct it.
Obama is not a radical, he is a calm, deliberative type of person. He thinks ahead and plans for his battles, and I bet he is leaps and bounds ahead of everyone out there who is second guessing him.
Patience, it’s a virtue. Let the man become President and lead for a bit before you judge him.
Comrade Stuck
@Conservatively Liberal:
Nicely put!
Thoroughly Pizzled
History shall remember this day as the day that democracy ended in America. One Senator was allowed to keep his chairmanship of a committee.
Xenos
As a lefty, sure I’m not entirely pleased with Lieberman, Clinton, and now Holder. But if people like me had the numbers and the influence we would have president-elect Kucinich or Edwards now. The Obama transcendancy shtick cuts against people like me, which is why I never was too hot about it.
At this point, given the last three months, to hell with purity. I will gladly take a centrist who at least shows up to work, puts smart people in power even if I don’t like them much, and fires anyone who screws up. Card check and open support for gay rights is such a fucking bonus that I am going to shut up and sit down and hope for the best.
kommrade reproductive vigor
I still haven’t figured out how Lieberman was Obama’s call. In other words, if anyone could point me to the rules for a president-elect directing Congress’ actions, I’d appreciate it. If there isn’t a rule I’d settle for precedent.
Pardon my ignorance, I just don’t know.
over_educated
1. I have to respectfully disagree, he has a lot more incentive to fall in line now (especially considering his precarious political position in his home state and the new makeup of the Congress and Presdiency) then he did before. Would he be more likely to fall in line if they stripped him of the chairmanship.
2. How will his chairmanship of the committee cause serious harm to a progressive agenda on economic, social and energy issues (the three most importnat issues facing the country right now, with the exception of the plethora of stupid foreign wars that even Bush had now accepted we need to get out of).
3. This isn’t a quesiton of what he "deserves." This is a quesiton of what makes the most sense in advancing the progressive agenda. Based on his actions now he will get what he deserves the next time he runs for office, and he knows it.
3. Yes I am dumb.
4. Please linky the statement by Lieberman where he stated he would support all filibusters and not be the 60th vote. I’m pretty sure that if you look at his voting record, he votes with the Democrats on every major issue EXCEPT national security/the war.
5. It’s politics, sometimes that means working with folks you disagree with to advance your agenda. There are serious problems this country faces, and Obama needs all the suport he can get going into his Presidency. There will be a time for payback, now is not that time.
Napoleon
@Xenos:
Is that Dan Gerstein? The quote sounds like him but I don’t think he is working for any Senator right now, but it clearly is one of those 2 guys.
Napoleon
@over_educated:
Easy, his committee is the one that would run investigations of the executive branch. Lieberman could easily sap any political goodwill of Obama through endless investigations like the Republicans ran in the 90s. The Dems didn’t just let Lieberman into the tent, they also armed him with the most dangerous weapon they have. Keep in mind Lieberman was one of the Dems who stabbed Clinton in the back during the Lewinsky thing, so he has a history of doing that to Dem Presidents.
Reid is a complete fool.
over_educated
But… With a Democratic majority in the Senate, are those investigations likely to occur? Does the Chairman have the ability to advance an that agenda regardless of what the majority of the committee decides? Even if so, what woudl Lieberman gain from this? WOuld it increase his influence/chance of mainatining his Senate seat in any way?
Napoleon
It really doesn’t matter. Game it out in your mind. Lieberman comes up with some bs thing to investigate. Members of the committee say its bs and they will not go along with it. Lieberman goes on the Sunday morning shows and ask what are the Dems trying to hide, why the cover up, what is wrong with looking into whatever he has cooked up. Enough Dems on the committee fold because they are scared of looking like an Obama stooge and vote for whatever cockamamie investigation that Lieberman and the Republicans have cooked up and we are off to the races. For the same reason once Lieberman is chair he will never be removed. If on day one he starts 50 investigations against Obama and the Dems (who have proven they don’t have the balls to do anything) determine he has overstepped the bounds you will have everyone from WaPo and Broder to Brokaw talking about how the Dems are running a coverup.
I don’t know, what did he gain from piling on Bill Clinton in the Lewinsky thing (although he ultimately voted against removing him from office). Lieberman already has a proven track record at this sort of thing.
Reid is truly an idiot.
over_educated
He gained a spot on the Democratic ticket by distancing himself from what, at the time, led to the impeachment of the sitting president. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I just do not think that Lieberman has any good motivation to go off the reservation right now, especially because he will be watched like a hawk. But I may be wrong, we will see.
grandpajohn
whats with all these Lieberman conspiracy rants here, do you people really think he could do these things on his own with out any backlash?
Lieberman has 2 years to redeem himself, there is a good chance that the dems will gain enough seats in 2010 to have the 60 majority without him in which case unless he has behaved himself they will show him the door.
And for God’s sake folks get a fucking grip. How many of you here don’t seem to have a grasp of the way Obama functions and what his agenda is , hell we have seen and heard it for 2 years. The man is first of all about conciliation and consensus building and doing so by all means possible in order to carry out his stated agenda. Revenge is not part of that agenda.
It seems to me that unlike the current occupant of the office, Obama truly lives up to principles Jesus taught like forgiveness, turning the other cheek, helping the poor, being your brothers keeper, the sermon on the mount, etc. I am certainly sure that he knows what he is doing and how to do it more so than I Know how, as personally I wouldn’t have a fucking clue as to how to start solving the problems we are facing, so I for sure an not going to be second guessing him