The Dow is down 380, S&P down even more, and GM shares are at a 60 year low and team McCain, in their infinite wisdom, are focusing on smears about Bill Ayers. Obama is hammering McCain on health care and the economy.
Keep listening to the NRO freaks, McCain.
*** Update ***
Down 678. Christ. How many retirements got wiped out today? How many people aren’t going to be able to retire when they want to?
But, but, but…. BILL AYERS!
Wankers.
Dennis - SGMM
In his column this morning, George Will mentioned that Obama is going to be advantaged by a mass mailing for which he didn’t pay a cent: the third-quarter 401K statements. I’m confident that the McCain campaign will reply with a Photoshopped picture of Obama shaking hands with Osama bin Laden.
johhny rotten
Here’s the commercial i want to see: Clips from the debates and campain stops with:
John mccain and that batshit crazy bitch palin: obama – obama- obama hussain (etc.) ending with the "that one"
Obama/Biden: you, american people, middle class, working families, fellow citizens, etc.
The voice at the end says, Who’s thinking about you?
DragonScholar
The Republican model, sadly, is all about salesmanship. He’s still trying to sell us something – not what we need, not what we want, but what HE wants.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
-650 as I write this. Wheeeee!!!!!!!!!!
mark
Dow Down 650 now
brutal brutal brutal day.
are we going to stay above 8500?
Walker
A week ago, I would have said 8500 is the bottom. But Roubini is now on record as saying that the bottom is probably around 7000.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
6 minutes later we’re at -482, it’s a comeback!
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Martin D. Weiss of Weiss Research is calling for 7300. That’s what I’m going with.
w vincentz
-600… YIKES!
GM as low as 1951.
Ahhh..capitalism.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Whoops, wouldn’t let me edit the last post.
Weiss said 7200 (I thought I read 7300, my bad).
Nylund
Deep Thought of the day: Had Ayers and the anti-war left been successful at stopping the Vietnam war in 67, McCain might never have had to spend 5 years in a POW camp.
Note: The above thought does not condone use of violence by the Weathermen. Its just a realization that Ayers (with questionable motivations, and terrible tactics) was trying to end the same war that caused John McCain to lose 5 years of his life in a POW camp.
MattF
Not to get all librul/fuzzy/sympathetic or anything, but every McCain ‘policy’ position on economics has been a disaster. It’s a tough situation– what’s an ex-POW to do?
Comrade Jake
This HAS to be Obama’s fault, what with his Arab bloodlines and all. AMIRITE?
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
-668, isn’t this fun?
cleek
currently below 8600?
ok. the ride was fun. now how do we get back to the top of the hill?
Punchy
380? No, try 659.
This reeks of total capitulation. I predicted 8000 by Election Day. We may see it by next week.
I’d never thought I’d bring myself to say this, but I’m beginning to get really fucking scared.
ComradeJ. Michael Neal
I predicted a bottom between 8000 and 8500 on the Dow. (Actually, I do all my thinking in terms of the S&P 500, but the Dow is what everyone else knows.) I’m sticking with that, and starting to go long, in small increments, for the first time in 18 months.
Comrade Jake
I would recommend buying on the dip, but I think I’m just going to give to the Obama campaign instead. That seems like a better investment at this point.
mantis
Turn the page! Turn the fucking page, goddammit!!
Comrade Dreggas
I predicted 8k by the end of this week. I’m not far off either. As far as where the "bottom" is. Just when you think it couldn’t go any lower….
Comrade Dreggas
Finished down 678.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
No! Make me.
greynoldsct00
down 679 as of now…
Perry Como
678! Do I hear 700? And Pantload is spewing teh stupid again:
Well, gosh durn it, I just don’t know ifin there’s any merit to the ideas of mouth breathers, donchyaknow?
Ryan S.
I’m going with about 4000 is the floor.
Edit: Btw the Dow is down 1400+ points just this week, and there’s still friday.
Comrade Jake
At least CNN is getting some mileage out of all their stockbroker/facepalm pics.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
OUCH!
NonyNony
I believe that Roubini has also bandied a number around somewhere in the 7200 range.
I think that 7200 number is related to the low that the Dow hit post-9/11 – that that might be the actual floor for the market. I guess we may see.
mapaghimagsik
I can’t imagine being 60 years old and seeing all that retirement going away. Poof.
Of course, I can’t wait for the "personal responsibility" crowd to start with the "poor life choices" drumbeat.
w vincentz
I predict the bottom will be around 6800.
We’ll see how tomorrow goes when the Asian markets react and we find out in the AM.
Sadly, every magic trick has been played by the planet’s government/financials. The bleeding will continue.
Insolvancy isn’t limited to Iceland.
Perry Como
I really wished we had privatized Social Security. Obama should hang that around McCain’s neck like a flaming tire.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
Whoops!
Comrade Dreggas
Words Fail. This was from her appearance on the show today.
Punchy
Always the optimist. Looks like someone has stock in digital cameras.
mellowjohn
mapaghimagsik:
i can’t either. i’m 62.
Josh Huaco
But, but Obama took like $25 from some Fannie Mae employees! That’s much much worse! Ayers!
zzyzx
Hey, remember that "my fellow prisoners" video from yesterday? Watch it again and look at the stock ticker. The dow lost 1000 points since that moment.
Laura W
I have a really lame question, but it’s a sincere one…
What are the primary benefits to paying down debt at an accelerated pace right now? Aside from raising FICO which would make it easier to get loans if needed (I really need to get a car. Really. Waited a few months too long to look into financing, clearly.)
And aside from possibly missing payments if your job was gone and suffering big leaps in interest rates on credit cards, repossession, foreclosure, etc.
Is it probable that credit card companies will raise interest rates on existing accounts to a horrific level all of a sudden, even though I think I’ve locked in a 0% balance transfer deal for the next year? Is that one of the motivators for those of you who have stated you were going to pay down debt as fast as possible?
chopper
now remember what 5 bucks bought back then.
Ryan S.
This is my worst case scenario. I give it about a 40% chance of actually happening but it wouldn’t surprise me though. Dow about 3k ( only because they suspend trading for about 3-4 months). State Governments that rely on commercial loans to stay afloat (ie California) will also shut down resulting in massive gov’t sector layoffs. A few riots and revenge mobs, some mild killing in the streets. Many other counties however will be dramatically destabilized. After the period of inflation (think Dollar = to Yen) passes – a quite a bit of deflation will take place not as bad as great depression though. This roughly taking about 10-15 years to get back to what it was like in the 80’s. Of course I could be completely wrong, but I don’t feel like I am.
w vincentz
The US will have to go the way of Israel and India…
nationalize the banks (which is what has already partially been done).
D. Mason
Why does it seem like some of you are rooting for it to keep dropping?
jake 4 that 1
Gee air lifting several pallets of cash to Wall Street really worked out well, dinnit? Now we all get to ride on The Economic Death Spiral, wheeee!
Punchy
The sweet stench of a ridiculous strawman. Nicely done.
Beej
Totally OT, but on another thread, someone wrote about a ’60’s radical who made an anti-American radio broadcast from Hanoi while McCain was a POW there. I have forgotten which thread that was. Can someone enlighten me or tell me the name of the ’60’s radical?
Josh Huaco
My 457 plan dropped like 40% so far this year. Fuck off.
reid
Chris Matthews is on fire, talking about how the Republican party always de-Americanizes the Democratic candidate. Pat "Exuberant Oaf" Buchanan fought back, claiming in the end that they can wage whatever campaign they want and the people will judge. Matthews then pointed out that bad information can deceive people and lead to wars. Whee!
reid
By the way, this Smerconish guy comes across as one of the few reasonable conservative talk show hosts.
kgb
I don’t think anyone is really rooting, per se. It’s just a form of gallows humor.
D. Mason
Let me make my case then.
Do I need to post more? This shit is really pathetic. Wanting Obama to win is great, I want Obama to win, but I don’t want to see shit like this when people are losing their whole life savings.
Atanarjuat
D. Mason said:
Because the Ayers-loving left want to see America FAIL. There’s simply no other rational explanation.
It’s shameful, isn’t it?
Country First.
Clor
Because it’s a great excuse for keeping the vodka out on the kitchen counter. Ready access and all.
jakester
You know, it just occurred to me that Ayers is almost certainly a CIA asset. I mean, think about it. Son of the oligarchy, helped fracture the anti-war movement, never seriously pursued by the authorities, currently living well thanks to a government job… And now happily blogging away while being used to undermine a great candidate!
Look, it would be irresponsible not to speculate.
The Populist
Laura W. – Look at it this way…paying the debt with savings may not be a bad idea from the perspective of A) Not having to worry about this should it get worse and B) Allowing you some borrowing flexibility down the line.
If you are paying for high interest loans and can afford to dip into savings PAY THE LOANS. Reason is pretty simple…if you are secure for now in your job why pay 20%+ to the banks?
You can always save again once the debts are paid.
Keep in mind if you want to buy a car now, your FICO would need to be about 700 BUT you will need a down payment.
NonyNony
Because when you see your retirement account make a spectacular flameout, you either have to laugh or cry? Human beings have an amazing capacity for gallows humor when disaster looms.
I’m just glad I’ve got another 30 (maybe 40 at this rate) years to rebuild.
The Populist
Actually from what I can see, Atanarjuat, the right don’t give two shits about this country and never have.
Punchy
Your concern has been noted. Tro….move along.
D. Mason
I hate to break it to you, but clearly you haven’t been paying attention, so I will. The only reason Obama is gaining traction from this shit is because the Republicans trashed the economy(edit: and everyone knows McCain can’t fix it and wouldn’t if he could). So for any cheering that happens on "the left" whatever the fuck that is, there was Republican action that brought this about. Also, as sickening as some of these comments are, BJ is a blog, not "the left". Grow up.
Geeno
I believe Atanarjuat is a parody troll.
John Cole
If anyone here is actively rooting for the DOW to drop, I will personally kick them in the junk. My retired parents, who worked their entire god damned lives and raised four kids on teachers salaries are having to come out of retirement and teach in the spring their retirement got hammered so bad.
No one is fucking rooting for further pain. What we are is gobsmacked that these douchebag Republicans are only concerned about some neutered scumbag from the 60’s who sat on the board of a charity with Obama. We are in a world of hurt right now, and these morons are chanting terrorist.
I have been to three different meetings this week for work where I had no clue who the other people were. Because of these scumbag Republicans and their bullshit guilt by association, every meeting I sat and wondered- “Will I ever have to answer questions about my association with these people, who I met while trying to do good things?”
So stop with the fucking concern trolling, please.
The Moar You Know
Ahhh, the "Obama’s only polling well because the economy’s going down the toilet" meme. Shit, D.Mason, I probably lost the equivalent of your annual salary today.
Nobody wants it to keep dropping. But we’re not near the bottom yet, my little friend.
CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII
D Mason:
1. We need to find the bottom, nothing is going to get better until we do
2. Each point lower that the markets drop is one step further away from an electorial win for the Republicans
Do you understand now?
I am not celebrating the fact that people are losing their livelihood, but the fact is, it will happen no matter what I say about it.
The Moar You Know
I think I love you.
jake 4 that 1
Yeah guys, show some respect for your 401Ks. I played Taps for mine when Bush signed the bailout bill.
We also need more hand-wringing and wailing over the fact we are so screwed our asses have threads. None of this "Humor to get you through tough times," silliness. Move along. Move along.
Ryan S.
Is it just me or do concern troll posses no sense of irony( ohh yeah thats their purpose). The quote from my comment is only an expression of my gut feeling as to how low the Dow might go. There’s no judgment ( good or bad ) in that just as for the 1400+ part its simply a statement of fact also containing no judgment.
What do you think would happen when the idiots who have spent every breath denouncing sound regulation gain power, and let the big corps set up ponzi scheme on top of ponzi scheme ( with peoples life savings) finally fall. After I’ve been railing against it ever since I old enough to be aware of such things (10+ yrs).
Ur gonna get some "I told U So"s thats what.
btw I think im gonna change my name to (parenthetical love).
(Parenthetical Love)
I like it.
D. Mason
I show a lot more respect for my mothers, actually, than mine. I’m not even 30 yet and don’t have much savings but she is 59. Watching your mom cry because her savings is evaporating before her eyes and she can’t stop it is sickening. You can call me a concern troll all you want but I’ll be damned if I shut up about people being excited about this drop because it helps Obama.
John Cole
What you are doing now is not merely constructing strawmen, but fucking murdering them. Everyone here has just told you they are not rooting for the DOW to drop, and in fact are sickened by it, and you come back and… say once again we are excited about the drop.
Stop. And re-read what I wrote ten minutes ago.
mellowjohn
d. mason:
please see comment at 35. yeah, i’m rooting like hell for a meltdown.
The Moar You Know
Point me to one post here that shows anyone being excited about the stock market drop "because it helps Obama". You can’t. You are pulling it out of your ass.
Ergo, you are a concern troll. And I’ll call you what you are.
(Parenthetical Love)
Where did I say that.
Also your mother should have gotten herself mostly out of the stock based funds of her 401k. Having not done that you will have to make a HUGE decision, transfer whats left now or wait (and hope) the market may rebound in a bit. I Will NOT tell you what it might do in the future ( no one knows). I FEEL like it will most likely continue to slide but I don’t know for sure. My parents a few years older than your mother and are facing sort of the same problem, but I advised them that they need to get mostly out of stocks.
The Moar You Know
And seemingly writing a really bad made-for-TV movie in the process:
Soap opera city. My mother is threatening armed insurrection.
D. Mason
@The Moar You Know:
I read that as wishing for more people to lose their savings so it hurts McCain even more. It was a stand alone comment so there’s no room to say I took it out of context and of course the author can say he meant whatever he wants to say. What can I do except take a statement like that at face value?
The Moar You Know
Wow. You call this "interpretation" of that comment "taking it at face value"?
Fast and loose with the truth doesn’t even begin to describe what you are.
Comrade Kevin
Your reading comprehension skills are sorely lacking.
Rick Taylor
Let me spell it out in really simple terms. Thinking something will happen and wanting it to happen are two different things. They don’t necessarily have anything to do with one another. Got it?
And if I’m impatient, it’s because I’ve endured years of right wingers taking it as a given that just because those of us on the left thought invading Iraq would be a disaster, that meant we were traitors who wanted it to be a disaster. I am so god damn sick of the Tinkerbell argument.
Perry Como
You read it wrong. If I wanted to troll it would have been much better than that.
Perry Como
And if anyone wants a place to direct their rage at the market taking a nosedive, go harass the asshat wingers that are saying the market is tanking because Obama is winning in the polls.
jake 4 that 1
Shut up you pigs! You’re making D. Mason’s mom cry!
An-and if your mom’s not crying then she’s an insensitive cow.
Christ, I think we’ve found our Darrell replacement.
Laura W
Hey Populist,
Thanks for responding.
I have no savings, and just moved almost all of my (moderate) credit card debt over to the 0% for 12 months WAMU account. (what timing I have, huh?) I guess I’m OK in that sense for now.
I did the foreclosure/BK dance back in 2002-2003 before they were all the rage, so (I can’t believe I’m saying this), I guess I’m lucky. I gots nothing to lose, really, and have been rebuilding credit ever since. And Campbell’s Harvest Select (MSG free!) line of soups is on sale for like $1/can at my local Food Lion, coupled with using the $1.50 off coupon if you buy 10. Which I did today. Again.
ppppppppffffffffffftttttttttttttttttt
lovethebomb
Note to troll : first sentence meant as sarcastic/ironic. no one actually wishes SS had been privatized. I, for instance, wish Fla and Ohio hadn’t been stolen. That is an example of a non-ironnic wish. Take notes.
uila
D.Mason:
You feeling alright?
I’m not feeling too good myself…
frankdawg81
I’m 57, the large co I used to work for ate my pension under rules put in place under St. Ronnie – 20 years of service netted me $18,000 that they keep until I’m 65 drawing the prime lending rate – about 3% over the last few years.
My 401k is primarily in index funds because, adjusted for load & fees, they do better. I expanded a few years back in include foreign indices’s to spread the risk more. In total I have lost more than 1/3 in the last few months & I seriously doubt that I will ever make that back plus the necessary increase to actually ever retire.
fucked from every angle. And I am not alone, there are going to be a ton of angry boomers.
(Parenthetical love)
Sorry, Laura I missed your post. If you read the fine print on ALL (all I’ve ever seen) credit card offers you will find that they always reserve the right to change your terms at will with little or no forewarning. There is no such thing as a locked in rate with credit cards. For instance even with a 0% rate if you miss or are late with a payment just once you will lose your zero rate.
w vincentz
Lately I’ve been feelin’ all the compassion from the "compassionate conservatives".
Laura W
(Parenthetical love):
Yep, thanks, I am aware of this for sure (and obsessively track all of my due dates in two places so as not to miss a due date). What I was trying to ask more specifically is if this sudden increase in interest rate with no "warning" or cause was probable and likely, and not just possible. I’ve not heard it mentioned directly, nor have I heard of it happening to anyone I know, but I do know it is possible. I was wondering if it’s an underlying concern for many who are paying off debt more rapidly right now, since I honestly don’t know why the rush to pay down debt is so important for individuals in the current atmosphere, unless, of course, you have atrociously high rates, in which case you should have been doing this before the recent events.
Just wondering what we credit card wielding consumers might see as the ugly spreads and multiplies and if part of the "I’ve got to pay them down NOW" fever is tied to something very very frightening that I am unaware of.
Comrade grumpy realist
Actually, right now is not the time to run for the hills–everyone’s panicking, selling, and heading for gov’t bonds. Yeah, you’ll lock in what you have, but you’ll miss out on any regains.
I’m taking the long view about this–yeah, the market was overvalued, it needed to have some air let out of it, but it will recover.
The mess right now looks like total capitulation. Which is, in some ways, good.
cain
D.Mason:
This was the wrong blog to post that on. You might recall a similar statement was made couple of months ago (can’t recall when) the reaction was pretty much the same.
I realize you’re probably sensitive due to your family issues, but nobody here is going to apologize for the gallows humor they are displaying. All of us are have relatives and close ones (if not ourselves) who has lost a shitload of money. Rather than gnash our teeth and wail, we’re expressing ourselves through humor and through collective snark. Believe me, nobody is hoping that the Dow is tanking.
Replace s/Dow tanking/terrorist attack/ and you’ll understand.. I think that was what was said earlier.
cain
(Parenthetical love)
Incidentally as you might be surprised to know that habitually paying off a credit card often results in your rates going up as well. I tend to operate under the assumption that the less debt you have the better, but I’ve never liked juggling balances to other cards for the best rate.
I don’t know as soon as I invent my time machine I’ll let you know. /facetious
It depends on how bad the economy gets and how much it effects the credit card companies / banks. At least I haven’t heard of credit card companies recalling balances yet.
Everyone Loves Fuckhead
Looks like I missed a fun thread. :(