Terrific speech so far, although I am watching it on CNN online, so it’s choppy. I love listening to the crowd as they cheer “Yes, We Can!”
…in English. No doubt, if there’s a German version of Patrick Ruffini, he’s having a conniption and blogging up a storm.
smiley
Good speech but I didn’t think it was his best (which is fine). As the gasbags on MSNBC are saying, it’s all about the visuals. True, and they were awesome. The sight of 100,000+ Germans (mostly) cheering a potential American president are going to be hard for McCain to beat.
zzyzx
I can’t believe I flaked on this.
Alex
It’s nice that they all had little American flags up in front, too. I bet Obama’s team gave them out, but they were being waved most enthusiastically.
“Abortions for some…miniature American flags for others!”
Tom
I read somewhere that a German paper was printing American flag cut-outs for the rally.
4tehlulz
ZOMG IT WASNT A MILLION WUT A FAILURE
/media
Shouting at the Rain
Nice speech, well delivered.
“So history reminds us, that walls can be torn down, but the task is never easy. True partnership and true progress requires constant work and sustained sacrifice. They require sharing the burdens of development and diplomacy, of peace and progress. They require allies who will listen to each other, learn from each other and most of all, trust each other.”
Yeah. That’s the ticket. This speech was all about the broad themes.
TR
Hell of a speech.
And yes, nice to see foreign crowds waving our flag rather than burning it.
I’m not sure how that will be made into a bad thing, but I’m sure the McCain-Mad Media will find a way to make it so.
The Grand Panjandrum
So when the crowd was chanting “Obama, Obama, Obama …” was that in English or German? Very confusing with all those foreigners there.
The visuals were pretty good and Der Spiegel has some excellent photos.
As long as he doesn’t do the shoulder rub thing with Merkel ala the Former Cheerleader he is probably good to go.
NR
I can’t wait for the headlines about it. They’ll probably go something like: “Obama Whips Germans Into Anti-American Frenzy.”
Jake
“Is Obama in danger of becoming TOO popular?”
-MSM
MattF
I was taken aback this morning to see that even David Broder was saying positive things about ‘Obama in Berlin’. I think that if, right about now, McCain does anything notably stupid that attracts any attention, it’s over.
TR
Any crowd estimates yet? That’s the media’s favorite shorthand.
L. Ron Obama
One hundred thousand estimated.
4tehlulz
His campaign is being run by retarded monkeys. That’s the only explanation.
Joshua Norton
Oh, I dunno. Mrs. Greenspan sort of poo-poo’d it. Said McCain could have made the same speech. Then she said in her best bitchtastic dismissiness,that it was presumptuous for someone who was merely a candidate to give such a speech.
David Hunt
“Obama loves America even less than Germans. He refused to wave a flag when even German crowd members were doing so.”
God, I’ve been hearing teh Crazy from the Right Wing for too long. That was way too easy.
Michael D.
German dead-ender
Gregory
Obama referenced JFK (look to Berlin), Reagan (tearing down walls) and FDR’s Four Freedoms. Nicely done.
Doug
“…in English. No doubt, if there’s a German version of Patrick Ruffini, he’s having a conniption and blogging up a storm.”
Es gibt Amerikaner in Berlin?!?! Was soll das??
The Berliner Morgenpost has estimated 215,000. We’re in ur street, cheerin our d00d.
Ricky
Great speech, crowds, visulas, yada, yada said your jaded commenter. However, my highlight was:
NBC’s ANDREA MITCHELL INTERRUPTING HER ATTEMPT TO POUR COLD WATER ON THE EVENT BY ASKING CHUCK TODD A QUESTION. WHEN CHUCK REFUSED TO PLAY BALL AND BEGAN TO COMPARE THE SCENE TO SOMETHING OUT OF REAGAN’S VISIT, SHE CUT HIM OFF TO DO A LIVE PROMO COMMERCIAL FOR THE NIGHTLY NEWS BECAUSE THE CAMERA HAD OBAMA WALKING BESIDE NBC ANCHOR BRIAN WILLIAMS.
American Broadcast Media: Incompetents feeding stool softener to the incontinent.
Then they resumed the hunt for the missing toddler in Florida.
w vincentz
Cain asked me why I said “wow” in a different thread.
Here’s why:
“What has always united us – what has always driven our people; what drew my father to America’s shores – is a set of ideals that speak to aspirations shared by all people: that we can live free from fear and free from want; that we can speak our minds and assemble with whomever we choose and worship as we please.
These are the aspirations that joined the fates of all nations in this city. These aspirations are bigger than anything that drives us apart. It is because of these aspirations that the airlift began. It is because of these aspirations that all free people – everywhere – became citizens of Berlin. It is in pursuit of these aspirations that a new generation – our generation – must make our mark on the world.
People of Berlin – and people of the world – the scale of our challenge is great. The road ahead will be long. But I come before you to say that we are heirs to a struggle for freedom. We are a people of improbable hope. With an eye toward the future, with resolve in our hearts, let us remember this history, and answer our destiny, and remake the world once again.”
Barack Obama has taken the global stage. He has been applauded.
The USA will again be seen for something better that the Bushies presented.
It’s about time. It’s about hope.
Shouting at the Rain
The Berliner Morgenpost has estimated 215,000. We’re in ur street, cheerin our d00d.
That’s some “focus group”.
Jake
So is that an insult to Obama or McCain?
I’m sure McCain could have READ the same speech. But he certainly couldn’t have WRITTEN it, and he certainly wouldn’t have had 100k+ Germans show up for it.
The Moar You Know
The Keyboard Commandos™ will be leaping into action with the inevitable:
“The last guy who got Germans yelling for him in large numbers wuz Hitler!”
“It was eerily reminiscent of the Nuremberg rallies.”
“Like his mentor, Adolf Hitler, Barack Hussein Obama is also in favor of abortion.”
Ignoring JFK, and Reagan’s bused-in crowds, cause that’s how you roll when you’re a Keyboard Commando™.
Jake
Woe is me. I’m John McCain, and WOE IS ME DAMNIT!!!
Mike P
Yep, thought he did a good job…hit the big historical themes and the importance of the transatlantic alliance, but didn’t make it soar (in an effort to be somewhat mindful of the fact that he is still just a senator and not a head of state). Atrios has a bit up about how the McCain campaign is hitting Obama for being overseas while Americans are hurting…what a bunch of asshats…first, your campaign tells Obama to go overseas, he does so and he rains (jumpers) on McCain’s parade, and now, with his thunder stolen away, McCain decides to whine about Obama neglecting Americans. Oh wait, McCain made the same style of trip shortly after he became the presumptive nominee, plus he’s been to Canada and Columbia (the later coming at the beginning of this month) and yet Obama leaves for one week and shit’s gone all to hell! These guys are a total and complete joke.
smiley
What I found great were the looks on the faces of the crowd as he shook hands after the speech. Genuine smiles and excitement not unlike what we see at his events here in the USA.
Ricky
More ala Moar from our Keyboard Commando’s, Geoffrey Div.
“I thought you needed a birth certificate to get a passport for overseaqs travel.”
“It’s easy to salute tearing down a wall over there when you won’t vote to build one over here.”
“A lot more concerned about disease and strife in Africa than the current Russian threat to Czechoslovakia.”
zzyzx
You thought you were joking, right?:
Kevin
That McCain statement is bizarre.
jnfr
I was moved to see the flags waving. It would be so good to once again become a respected leader in the world, and not despised as we have been.
Catpain Haddock
Or:
Obama’s charisma, good news for McCain?
cyntax
Also not unlike what we see when he visits US troops abroad.
Punchy
The sad thing is….this is EXACTLY what the media will focus on.
The Moar You Know
I LOLed, hard. Reminds me of a book I read where one of the characters not only beats the shit out of a guy, but then kicks him repeatedly in the face when he’s down, so everytime the guy looks in a mirror, he can never forget that he got his ass kicked – and who did it.
I’m already seeing plenty of Republicans in California who are afraid to put their party affiliation on their fliers – and in some cases even on their websites. And this may be a bad character trait, but I can’t get enough of their shame.
Joshua Norton
They just CAN’T stop themselves from saying brain farts like this out loud.
gbear
That chant in German means ‘Go away, brown person’.
The Moar You Know
The House GOP is committed to helping their party in the 2008 elections any way they can.
I’m sure some enterprising Dem candidate can get some material for a TV spot or two from this.
Ricky
MSM—Many German tribal leaders we spoke to on the street were unaware of the inaccuracy of Der Spiegel’s translation.
w vincentz
Oh the contrast…
Barack in front of cheering 200,000 Germans waving flags.
McCain wandering a grocery aisle with a mother and her two kiddies, putting cornflakes in a shopping cart.
Punchy
He gave a speech about women?
Joshua Norton
Can’t be much of a threat, since Czechoslovakia disappeared around 1993.
Of course, any part of the world beyond their favorite Walmart’s parking lot is pretty much unknown to them.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
I’ve already heard Republicans attacking Obama for this trip. Something about it being treasonable for a US Senator to go overseas and meet with foreign heads of state and give speeches to foreigners. Somehow, this usurps the President’s control over US foreign policy.
Those poor bastards are really grasping at straws. If it weren’t for the 500,000 dead Iraqis and the Bill of Rights in flames, I’d almost feel sorry for them.
Apsaras
Some of the bloom came off of the proverbial rose with the whole FISA debacle (though unlike some, I never had enough faith to believe that Obama could change the vote with his mind-control powers), but what’s done is done. He’s the best choice we have for president.
Here’s a scary thought exercise. Imagine McCain wins following a squeaker of an election with all the stories of voting irreularties that usually accompany close elections. How fucked would we be? A little? Or a lot? Watching how the crowd reacts to Obama, and imagining how so much of the world would similarly react if we elected another champion of the Crusade in Iraq? I’m guessing “a lot.”
PaulW
The last guy who got Germans all whipped up into a frenzy was David Hasslehoff!!!
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
That’s just what they want the Russians to think! They were so afraid of them, hiding their country’s existence was the only way to keep it safe! And now McCain’s blown their cover!
Shadow-Czechoslovakia is doomed!
Joshua
This is awesome stuff. Obama might be “young” and “inexperienced”, but is there any doubt he has the chops to do this stuff as President? He didn’t talk down to people, he didn’t demand respect and admiration, he didn’t give reporters stupid nicknames, he spoke eloquently and intelligently, he didn’t give foreign leaders backrubs… jeez it was a breath of fresh air.
p.s. I thought the right wing was horrified and shocked by the mere fact that anyone would dare compare our current political leaders to Hitler? “Beyond the pale” and all that? Now it’s no biggie?
germ78
The problem with translating “yes we can” into German, is that it needs to be known what it is that we ‘can’ be doing. This is due to the fact that German modals (can, may, should, etc…) replace the verb in the sentence, while placing the verb at the end of the sentence.
Though informally I think it would simply translate as ,,Ja, wir können!”
Can anyone with fresher German skillz correct this?
gbear
You know, these Obama moments remind me of an old British sci-fi movie where children born in different parts of the world turn out to be children from the future sent to warn us to get our act together. They all gather in a church and, standing on the front steps, deliver their message of hope to a shocked and frightened world. There is a minute of tense silence as the world takes the message in, then someone drops a screwdriver onto a control panel signalling the military units gathered around the church to attack the building and the ‘aliens’. The attack ends with a shot of the church steeple falling out of a searchlight as the building collapses into rubble with our dead future underneath.
I’ve been thinking of this movie a lot during Obama’s speeches. I hope nobody drops a screwdriver…
RSA
Pretty funny. “We’re not going to make any plans for a transition to the White House until we win the election. We didn’t make any plans before invading Iraq, either, and that turned out fine, didn’t it?”
Atlliberal
“Here’s a scary thought exercise. Imagine McCain wins following a squeaker of an election with all the stories of voting irreularties that usually accompany close elections. How fucked would we be? A little? Or a lot?”
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice…..
Not This Time!
I will personally start the revolution if they try to steal it again.
( by the way I want Glenn Greenwald to be my lawer should I disappear)
daphne
Cappy Ed is confused. He can’t get the idea that part of Obama’s trip was an official congressional fact finding thingy and the other part is being paid for by his campaign.
Dork
EXACTLY. It’s a DAMN good thing McCant’s never gone to Iraq and met with Al-Maliki.
Wait….uh…nevermind.
Notorious P.A.T.
I’ve already heard Republicans attacking Obama for this trip.
That’s rich, since *he went on this trip because they pressured him into doing it*.
Idiots. They probably thought the rest of the world, which hates them and Decider Guy, would hate Obama even more. Nobody could have predicted etc. etc. etc.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
That’s different, because he’s a Republican. Therefore, he’s merely an emissary of the President, not a treasonous usurper trying to effect a coup through some underhanded Constitutional measure called, euphemistically enough, an “election.”
A conspiracy is at play here, and tens of millions of treasonous Democrats are involved. Every single one of them is a threat to national security.
Dork
Hannity says it translates to “Heil Hitler!”. Verbatim
LarryB
John,
Yer intertubes musta’ been clogged. I watched the same feed and it was smooth as glass, although CNN made me download a viewer plugin for Firefox before it would work.
Dreggas
Dude some, if not a majority of those german chicks were hot.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
We have to lose the election to him over there, so we don’t lose it to him over here.
AnneLaurie
His campaign is being run by retarded monkeys. That’s the only explanation.
McCain’s “advisors” are secretly being paid by Sasha Baron Cohen, who plans to use Old John McLame’s campaign footage for the Borat sequel.
phobos
At one point Obama said something about America not being perfect all the time, yet he still loved his country.
We’re going to need smelling salts and comfy pillows for the wingnuts–stat.
Zifnab
It’s really hard to steal an election when the guys who you normally rely on to do the stealing are voting Democrat. I’m just saying, the GOP brand is looking so incredibly dead that I question whether they can find the manpower necessary to actually go ahead with election theft.
If McCain manages to pull of an election year coup, he might as well change his name to Robert Mugabehe, cause that’s about his only path to victory with the direction he’s headed.
NonyNony
Here’s a scarier thought – imagine the scenario reversed with Obama winning in a squeaker of an election with all the stories of voting irregularities that accompany close elections. How fucked would we be then?
A lot. I’m already expecting a resurgence of the right-wing militia movement from the 90s with a “liberal black man” taking office – if it’s a squeaker and there’s any excuse for those folks to declare the election to be “stolen” it could be a really fucking ugly four to eight years. (Incentive to work to turn it into a blow-out win for Obama, I suppose, no matter how little enthusiasm I actually have for him as a pol, I have less enthusiasm to see the country go down that path or for McCain to hold the office..)
stickler
Germ78:
One of the pictures I saw had a person holding a sign — near the front of the crowd — with “Wir Schaffen’s!” on it. That’s probably the best translation (“Wir schaffen es” would be about like “we will do it” or something).
Shouting at the Rain
phobos wrote: “At one point Obama said something about America not being perfect all the time, yet he still loved his country.”
This will be the Great Intentional Misquote of this speech:
People of Berlin – people of the world – this is our moment. This is our time.
I know my country has not perfected itself. At times, we’ve struggled to keep the promise of liberty and equality for all of our people. We’ve made our share of mistakes, and there are times when our actions around the world have not lived up to our best intentions.
But I also know how much I love America. I know that for more than two centuries, we have strived – at great cost and great sacrifice – to form a more perfect union; to seek, with other nations, a more hopeful world.
Notorious P.A.T.
Can anyone with fresher German skillz correct this?
I don’t speak German, but look at these buttons people were wearing:
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-33614-18.html
“Ich Kahn Zuhoren!”
jake
So. Even the fReichtards agree that Nazis are evil (unless they’re debating the fine points of Death Camps vs. Labor Camps) and Obama’s speech to Germans today is somehow the same as Hitler’s speech to Germans (because apparently German = Nazi) then…
Why aren’t the fReichtards calling for us to bomb the evil Germans?
Why do they hate Poland?!
Notorious P.A.T.
I’m already expecting a resurgence of the right-wing militia movement from the 90s with a “liberal black man” taking office
It’s well-known that membership in militias, hate groups, etc. rises when Democrats are in power, since they don’t feel welcome in mainstream society at such times.
Anastasius
Not only did Obama visit Germany, the usual talking points came right with him. It looks like all the German “America Experts” got briefed with WaPo and Drudge this morning.
Apart from the non-stop Superstar, Superstar, Rockstar, Superstar meme, we also had the “He is just so inexperienced”, and the “Everyone is watching if he makes mistakes on this trip and amazingly he had no gaffes so far! Unbelievable!”
Also great: Obamam picked Berlin for his speech cause Germans are so grounded and salt of the earth, with the Bratwurst and Sauerkraut and all. Imagine if he had picked Paris. Oh my God, the elitism.
And my absolute favorite of the day: The good weather and masses of people are actually bad for Obama cause when the economically depressed Americans see the cheering crowd and the sunshine they will get bitter.
That is absolutely correct, including punctuation.
Clutch414
I’ve only been able to read the text of the speech and look at some of the pictures from Der Spiegel because they “poo poo” streaming media here at work. The one thing that I take away from this is the genuine look of hope and excitement on the faces of the Germans who showed up to the speech.
It seems like it was sooooo long ago that people from other countries were excited about hosting an American leader. Wouldn’t it be great to have president we could be proud of represent us on the world stage rather than the current president who basically is an international punchline.
I’m 30 years old (almost 31) and I have NEVER been THIS excited about an election.
dslak
That’s funny, because the Germans don’t see it that way. Hitler is known to have even questioned whether Berlin was truly a German city.
Zifnab
I just thought that’s where all the Regent University graduates went when they couldn’t get jobs in the Justice Department anymore.
Dug Jay
Obama in his speech: “But in the darkest hours, the people of Berlin kept the flame of hope burning. The people of Berlin refused to give up. ….” – in reference to the Berlin airlift period.
Why did the people of Berlin keep the flame of hope burning? They did because they believed that America would not abandon them despite the hardship and risk associated with the flights, that’s why.
This from a man who was desperate to abandon Iraqis at the very moment that they were in their darkest hours. If Iraq is any indication, he would have abandoned Berlin.
He has some chutzpah to even mention the benefits of fortitude in a speech.
Catpain Haddock
While this speach was OK, it does not hold a candle to Bush’s “Drunk Economy” masterwork. Sorry for bursting your bubbles.
croatoan
The Washington Post says over 200,000 people were there. Meanwhile, the senior senator from Arizona visited a German restaurant in German Village, Ohio.
Hint: when you’re going to invite a comparison with your opponent, make sure it’s a favorable one.
dorkboy
Thanks for blowing the end of that movie for me…I was going to watch it this weekend!
jake
More Fail from The McWreck Campaign. German Village is rapidly filling up with Lieberuls and teh ghey.
The food at the Sausage Haus is excellent, tho’.
RSA
My German is a bit rusty, but I’d guess it might be a little bit more idiomatic to say, “Ja, das können wir.” The schaffen construction works, too.
phobos
Geez Dug Jay. I remember when you were at the top of the spoof food chain.
Now you’re just phoning it in. When’s the book coming out?
gopher2b
Haven’t seen the speech BUT….
…this seems like something that could really backfire. Why? This doesn’t attract many new voters to him. Most people who understand that its helpful and a good thing when the entire world doesn’t hate us are already voting for him anyway. There will be a lot of people who are on the fence who will hate this line “People of Berlin — people of the world — this is our moment. This is our time” (and yes, I pullled it from the Drudge) and don’t really care for Obama travelling around Europe when we have so many problems here.
I know people hear can’t stand any ideas that don’t support their existing belief, but I do think this speech could have waited until after he was elected.
John S.
Join the club – on all points!
4tehlulz
teh ghey…Sausage Haus…
John S.
That hasn’t stopped Johnny McSaint from travelling abroad, now has it? But your point is taken…
Concern troll is CONCERNED!
TenguPhule
First you assholes were complaining that Obama didn’t have what it takes to get along with other leaders.
Now you assholes are complaining that he’s too good with other leaders and should stay at home.
Make up your minds.
Jess
Yes, and as we all know, the good people of Iraq are BEGGING us to stay for 100 years, since we’ve done such good things for their country’s infrastructure and stability.
Wilfred
Just a bunch of hot air. Somebody better curb Obama before he goes a speech too far and starts to become a caricature of himself.
For example, Germans are much more open-minded about Palestine than thoroughly propagandized Homelanders could ever be. Obama wanking on about:
is complete bullshit. When the euphoria of this drivel wears off the Germans will realize that nothing that concerns them, in regard to Palestine, Iran, etc. is going to change one bit.
There actually is a left in Europe and I doubt that their critical thinking skills have deteriorated to the point they aren’t going to ask exactly what all of this means in practice.
The Briscoe Kid
In other news… John McCain was in the dairy aisle of a local Food Town eating all the free samples of the Fiber One yogurt because he can’t taste the fiber.
nightjar
Yea, me too. They’ve been described as Xenophobes, American Exceptionalists, Neocons, Imperialists, and lately, your garden variety Hilbot concern troll looking for any reason to slam Obama. Personally, I prefer the simple but elegant “Wingnut”
The Moar You Know
Gosh, gopher, thanks for your concern.
The Moar You Know
Heard your last 9000 posts. I think we get it.
Plz to find another topic, because frankly, no one else here gives a fuck.
Brachiator
Huh? I just have to ask, did you feel the same about this?
The Grand Panjandrum
I finally watched the entire speech and I will have to agree with Daniel Larison:
As Larison also points out the Obama campaign’s explanation for why the couldn’t go to Landstuhl and visit an American military base is inexplicable. Good speech but I’m already a supporter and don’t need to be swayed. The “citizen of the world” drivel was meaningless at best.
Sure McCain is doing his very best Buddhist monk imitation with the self-immolation over the past couple of weeks but I don’t see this part of Obama’s trip as all win either. It probably won’t hurt him but I rather doubt it is going to make much difference.
Montysano
So: an African American man, despite his race, despite a sinister name, may well become president. He gives a soaring speech in Berlin, calling for international cooperation and brotherhood. Thousands of people are waving American flags instead of burning them. Thousands celebrate his presence instead of protesting it.
And when I get off work and get back in the news cycle, what do I hear? The HateFest is well underway.
I got no snark. Got no wisecrack. I just don’t understand the venom. It truly dismays my bleeding liberal heart.
I think tequila is called for.
Wilfred
Yeah, I know that: Arabs are the only niggers it’s still ok to kill. When someone mentions it – ANTI-SEMITE – ANTI-SEMITE.
This site has become a circle jerk bore. BTW, You can go back to fucking your mother.
Thanks for all the pixels, Cole.
Kevin
Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.
The Moar You Know
My, so touchy. All I did was explain that we’ve all heard enough of your one-note symphony, and you come unglued and swear you’re leaving our little house of sanity forever.
You must be an absolute ball to work with. I can see it now:
“He’s a nice enough guy, but damn, don’t mention the Jews around him cause he’ll just start going off. He won’t shut up for hours.”
numbskull
Montysano, I totally agree. ABC and Chuckie Gibson and Jake Tapper are PATHETIC. They really are to the point where, if Obama said he was for apple pie and mom, they’d find SOMEbody SOMEwhere who killed their mother AND prefers cherry.
Geeze, world peace and cooperation, whodda thunk the two are so evil?
daphne
As Larison also points out the Obama campaign’s explanation for why the couldn’t go to Landstuhl and visit an American military base is inexplicable.
Yes, Larison is following Cappy Ed in that regard.
If you don’t understand, then just follow. Larison is a contrarian. He’s not on your side. Just follow him.
AkaDad
If you analyzed his body language during the speech, he was basically saying, “Hitler was right.”
jaime
The new wingnut attack is now:
ZOMG!!!! There was a free concert and the MSM is ignoring it.
The acts were Patrice and Reamonn. Yes. the 200K were there to see THEM and not Obama.
gopher2b
Careful Grand Panjandrum. Some people around here don’t like thoughts that challenge their pre-existing world view (“whatever Cole told them to say”).
If McCain wasn’t running one of the worst campaigns in, well since Kerry’s, then he might be able to exploit this unnecessarily risky move.
Delia
I am also concerned. Also jealous. When I went to Berlin nobody gave me a parade, although a friend did take me on a nice walking tour of the city one night. But I still would like a parade. It just isn’t fair. Maybe I’ll find John McCain at the Sausage Haus, have some drinks and be bitter.
phobos
I’m beginning to think that Daniel Larison has just enough brain damage to make him entertaining.
For fuck’s sake, it’s like some of these people have never personally witnessed a political campaign before.
jaime
Because McCain threatened to not host barbeques for the press if he didn’t get any love from them.
Whenever the press is challenged, like when Hillary and SNL chided them, they consider taking stock of their coverage as providing “balance” even when there is none.
If Obama said the world was round, and McCain cried that no one’s paying attention to him, we’d get a whole bunch of stories titled…”The world is round?”
jake
See that’s your problem right there.
Delia
Ah, now I know why I’m concerned. The very exact same thing happened at the huge Obama rally last spring in Portland, where a mere 75,000 people turned out. It seems the Decembrists, who claim to live in Portland, were playing in the park, and the humungous crowd had all come to see them and not Obama. I am very concerned that the nefarious Obama is inviting rock bands along to his rallies. No wonder no one ever gave me a parade.
Digital Amish
Didn’t hear the speech. According to the Batshit Crazy Radio that I sampled on the way home (some Barrett guy sitting in for Hugh Hewitt), Obama made the biggest gaff of the campaign by declaring himself “a proud citizen of the United States and a fellow citizen of the world.” That statement is going to turn the election to McCain.
I used to find Batshit Crazy Radio somewhat entertaining on what is routinely a long commute but am finding it less so as they approach complete derangement.
daphne
Well, Cole seems to go to Larison often to comment, so I think you are mixed up.
nightjar
Maybe, but it will drive the wingnuts crazier than they already are, and that gives it entertainment value. I don’t know what effect this trip and speech will have on the electorate, but there is a majority of voters who are uneasy, to put it mildly, that America has lost respect around the world and the optics of Obama changing that perception is a win, IMHO. It also provides a platform for Obama to look Presidential, which all POTUS candidates crave. As for the ditching the Landstuhl visit, I will wait to get more details, though he did visit the Hospital in the Green Zone.
Of course the gopher2b concern trolls of the world are concerned it was a risk and it was, and apparently one he has overcome. I seem to remember the knock on Kerry as being too cautious while not taking enough risks.
Oh, and gopher, Hillary lost, get over it.
w vincentz
I can’t wait until McInsane shows up at my local supermarket so he can add some oatmeal to my shopping cart.
Maybe he’ll pick out a nice cheese.
Then, trust me, I’ll whip it out and piss all over his legs.
Johnnie, you ol’ fool, Barack is pissing on you too!
AnneLaurie
Shorter McLame:
John S.
Hmmm. Same meaningless drivel. Same weak snark. Same penchant for numerical monikers.
Is gopher2b really just myiq2xu?
Maybe – maybe not. Either way, to come in here and sling some gloriously bullshit concern trolling and then respond as thus is pretty asinine. The truth is that the American people don’t give a rat’s ass what Obama said in Berlin. Half are likely not aware he is even in Berlin. It’s not a risky move. It’s not much of anything as far as the public here is concerned.
They saved all the concern for you.
gbear
Sorry Dorkboy. Given that the movie is about 50 years old, I didn’t think it was much of a secret. I owe you a box of Raisinettes.
Jake
Sorry, but that take is about as tone-deaf as it gets.
w vincentz
@ John S.,
I’ll consult my magic 8-ball and get back to you with the answers later.
Notorious P.A.T.
“Oh no! I said something dumb, and people didn’t agree with me! That must mean they are closed-minded fools. It’s the only explanation!”
L. Ron Obama
Half of those don’t know where Berlin is (it’s been too long since we bombed it)
bago
Ok, anyone who has a problem with the citizen of the world spiel.
This is all we are. Every war, every fight, every love and every loss amounts to a couple of fucking pixels in this entire universe. People fighting over which colors fly over which pixels on this tiny little dot is a short sighted imbecile. As far as we know we are the most intelligent bit of self replicating molecules throughout all of the observable space and time in the history of the universe. Any moron willing to kill over wether they butter the topside or bottom side of a peice of bread is a short sighted fool. They should be treated with utter derision and contempt.
gopher2b
You guys are really sensitive.
For the record:
(1) I have no idea who m1x46 or whatever is.
(2) I voted Bush twice (do you seriously think I would admit that instead of admitting to being a Hillary supporter)
(3) I had no idea what a “concern troll” was until I googled it 30 minutes ago. Sorry, I have a job and don’t live on message boards.
Anyhoo, you fellas are really just proving my point. I post one innocuous item – that going to Europe and proclaiming yourself a citizen of the world is politcally stupid given that he gains nothing and risks a lot (like, for example, the states of PA and OH) and you guys go crazy with conspiracy theories and name calling and whatever else insecure people do. Regardless, it was dumb and arrogant and he may regret it (yes, I’m hedging)
BUT, if you think (1) the same rules apply (fairly or not) to McCain, or (2) you don’t think the GOP PR machine can turn this into a coup, then you haven’t been watching (or you’re dumb…I vote for the latter). Now, go back to your lives boys (i.e. Warcraft) and see what happens when you hand a dying animal their last chance to eat.
John Cole
Two quick comments as I scanned the comments:
1.) I understand what Larison is saying, but think that the folks he is describing are already going to vote against Obama. Note I said vote against Obama, and not for McCain. I think there is a very fixed portion of the population that will vote Republican no matter what- 40+%). Larison’s remarks make sense, if you consider that portion of the electorate will never vote for Obama no matter what. Others, however, independents disgusted with our international standing, who are already more cosmopolitan, will not see the message the same way Larison predicts.
2.) I tend to agree to some extent with Wilfred. There does seem to be a reflexive need to parrot pro-Israel rhetoric here and everywhere else, even if unintentionally. While wilfred seems to go overboard at times, in my opinion, what he is reacting to is entirely natural. The problem is the framework in which we discuss all issues Middle East and Israel- it is always from a reflexively pro-Israel paradigm. While I understand why that is the case, particularly in the course of an election year, it does not necessarily translate into a healthy foreign policy. The paradigm needs to shift from Israel and support for Israel wagging the US Dog to the other way around.
Wilfred just isn’t so polished at discussing that, although I understand why. It is acceptable to discuss many Muslims and Islamic societies as if they are not people, and that infuriates him. I got pissed a few weeks ago when Obama seemed to be avoiding American Muslims.
The shit has to stop, but there is a fine dance. No one can toss Israel to the wolves, but we need to stop looking at all of the Middle East like wolves. If that makes sense.
And Wilfred, please stay. I like your voice.
Genine
I am not insulting you, but anyone who would be offended or not vote for Obama because he said he’s a citizen of the world (as we all are) wouldn’t vote for him in the first place, so I don’t think he lost anything.
Also, I was born and raised in Pennsylvania (albeit Philadelphia, but still) and I think saying voters in PA and Ohio would get their panties in a bunch over “citizen of the world” is kind of insulting. Sure, there are idiots in those states just as idiots in other places, but that’s like calling the all the citizens of those states idiots.
That’s not fair.
w vincentz
gopher2b,
Fuck you. I’m not sensitive, so don’t assume, asshole.
Now, rather than block quote your stupidity, I’ll just pick out some of your OWN phrases…
“voted for Bush twice”.
“no idea”.
“dumb and arrogant”.
“dying animal…last chance to eat.” (ROFLAO!)
and you don’t know what a “concern troll is”….
YIKES!
Montysano
Yeah, me too.
Yeah, me too.
Tonight’s offering during my short commute? BO’s call to “tear down the walls between Christian and Muslim and Jew” was ZOMG! a call for a unitary world religion! Revelations! The Antichrist
I’m so not kidding.
nightjar
Ok. So you think Obama screwed the pooch on this trip and the GOP is going to make him pay. With what? A candidate who can’t keep his foot out of his mouth and appears to be a few weeks away from leaving reality completely behind. Or maybe the spectacular policy achievements the GOP has wrought the past seven years.
So you say your not a concern troll for Hillary or otherwise. But your concerned Obama made a mistake. This must mean you support Obama and plan to vote for him and your criticism is only meant as constructive. Is this true? and if not then you are in fact a “concern troll” of one sort or another. Nothing in your comments have indicated you want Obama to become prez. Prove me wrong.
nightjar
Same here Wilfred. I’ve never taken your comments as patently anti-semite but more as pro palestinian in nature, and IMO, that is a valid perspective. I don’t always agree with what you say, but I always read it and often do agree. Obama is a prez candidate, and like all the others before him gives sloppy wet kisses to Israel. But I think his policies when prez will not be all Israel all the time. If you were to ask, I bet many, if not most Israeli’s want a more balanced approach to the ME problem coming from an American prez.
Conservatively Liberal
During his overseas trip, if Obama screwed up even once the wingnuts and Hillaristas would be slapping high-fives all over the place. That and the right would be congratulating themselves for ‘goading’ Obama into making the trip.
Instead, he is carrying himself well and he is scoring points one after the other (sometimes literally), so all they can do is bitch and moan about how he is pretending to be the president.
Never mind that he stated that he was in Berlin as a “citizen”.
I don’t know about you, but it has been a long time since I have seen people of other nations flocking to hear one American speak, and waving our flag while doing so. I happen to like that picture. President Chimpy has fucked things up royally, which is his specialty. He has been an abject failure and this is what makes the contrast between him and Obama so striking. People are making the comparisons, and it is pissing the right off. They know they look like shit, and Obama just clarifies it beyond doubt.
All I have to say to the right is: “Suck on it bitches!”
gopher2b
I hope I didn’t insult you; I didn’t intend to. I lived in Philly for two years and loved it. (Reading terminal – best sandwiches in the country). I also think Pittsburgh is one of the coolest small cities in the country.
Anyway, I think there will be voters all over the country getting their panties in a bunch over his comments but they don’t matter because they live in Texas or Oklahoma (which will go Republican no matter what) or New York and California (democrat) (and yes, “these people” do live in New York and California too). In a way, I agree with Cole in that 40% will go Dem no matter what and 40% will go Repub no matter what (heck, we know 20% will go Repub NO MATTER WHAT!!!). But I think its a mistake to just assume that the remaining 20% won’t care about this. I don’t think they are “idiots” but I think that a lot of them are busy with jobs and family (i.e. can’t sit down and watch a 28 minutes speech), don’t care for the U.N. (still), voted for Reagan and don’t like people acting like the President when they aren’t yet. Rush and Hannity are going to use this. It will take a few days but they will find a narrative and that narrative will turn a lot of people who were close to Obama away from him and back to the familiar. This affects all kinds of people; it’s just that the Ohioans and Pennsylvanians who will may be influenced by this matter, and the Texans don’t.
One last point – Obama is becoming a caricature of himself. Comedians are desperately trying to figure this out and if SNL creates this cartoon of someone who breaks into speeches everywhere he goes and acts like he’s running for World President, it will matter. One word: “Lockbox”
PS I don’t regret voting for Bush over Kerry. Had Kerry won, we wouldn’t have Obama and its worth it (the damage was already done). I do regret not voting for Gore.
gopher2b
I’m David Axelrod (KIDDING!!)
I don’t know what to tell you. I live in Chicago so it won’t matter one way or another. I’m a lawyer (I know, now you guys really hate me) and I can tell you that I have a lot of friends who took classes from him at U of C. They said he was absolutely brilliant and fair and really cared about other people’s point of view (some have said he was brilliant and fair and dismissive but they are in the minority).
I would hate to see this country lose it over a trip to Berlin (I thought going to the mideast was a good idea) or a clever SNL script. Especially when he could do all this type of stuff once he is President and it would have the same effect.
Jake
Kennedy used “citizen of the world” in his inaugural address.
Reagan used it as well. People who view this as an Obama mistake are off their fucking rocker.
RSA
If I were a Democratic electioneer, I’d arrange for a photo of Bush visiting Germany to be shown side-by-side with one of the current photos of Obama’s visit. It’s just a visual, but it brings into sharp focus the choice we face.
Montysano
Exactly.
The chest-thumpers where I work, who 7 years ago were strutting and crowing about their boy Dubya, are now deflated and sullen. The lizard-brain does not do subtlety or self-awareness. “Wow, I was wrong” is not available to them. All they know is “ATTACK!”
Genine
You’re actually making my point. People who listen to Rush aren’t going to vote for Obama. Someone who thinks “citizen of the world” is somehow unamerican, will not vote for Obama. If they don’t think its anything nefarious and Sean Hannity can convince them it is, they aren’t going to vote for Obama anyway. So, really, its no loss.
Also, Obama wasn’t acting like President. He went on an overseas trip, *just like McCain did*. Just like many politicians do. Its the press that’s making a big deal of the trip because he’s a historic candidate. He didn’t talk policy or make deals or anything. And, since people are busy with their lives, as you point out, they’re not even paying attention to the fact that he’s in Berlin anyway. They don’t care.
Jake
Andrea Mitchell reported this evening that the Pentagon asked Obama not to go to Landstuhl. Not so inexplicable after all.
TenguPhule
If Wilfred could argue without resorting to ‘fuck you and your mother too’ and fallacies galore, then he might be worth listening to.
As it is, his current incarnation is ‘The only good Israeli is a dead one.’
nightjar
There is a healthy population of lawyers on this blog. So unless you guys hate each other, or yourselves then it’s cool. I like the phrase “everybody hates lawyers till they need one”.
My experience here is that although most currently do support Obama, the primary theme is talking direct about what you think and believe. Whining and ambiguity usually get met with some scorn. and I’m not saying you were doing either, but your last comment is well taken, at least by me.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
‘Tis sad but true. It will take a truly epic meltdown to get McCain below about 45% in this election, IMHO.
I don’t know what the corresponding percent of dead-ender Democrats is – intuitively I would guess the percentage is much lower, perhaps 20% or so of the electorate who would vote J.Stalin (D-Gulag), but who knows.
Either way, it seems like our elections are normally decided by only about 10-20% of the electorate in the middle, and most of them aren’t paying attention.
John S.
Cole just likes him some crazies.
He pretty much had the same routine with Darrell back in the day. I’m just waiting for him to tell us all that Wilfred argues in good faith…
Brachiator
You might be right. But you seem to be unaware of your political double standard here. Here is a fun little note from andrew sullivan’s site:
I note again that I cannot find a single major pundit or blogger who suggested that McCain’s trip to Mexico and Colombia — just a few weeks ago — was ill-advised or indicated that it indicated that he did not care about domestic problems. Even though McCain stubbornly insisted that Bush Administration policy that helps those countries to the detriment of Americans were a good thing (McCain on his trip to Mexico, Columbia):
Now I readily admit that it takes a lot of balls on McCain’s part to go to PA or OH and tell workers who are being laid off in droves that there should not be any federal unemployment programs. And it takes a lot of something for voters in PA and OH to say that they desperately want McCain and the Republicans to fuck them over.
Here, we simply have a disagreement, and one that does not require name-calling. If Obama sat on his ass and stayed here, the GOP would attack him. But he went to the Middle East and Europe anyway, and the GOP is attacking him. McCain insisted that Obama go to Iraq, and then attacked him because he did not take McCain with him to hold his hand and whisper sweet military nothings in his ear.
So, since it doesn’t matter what he does, there is absolutely no reason for Obama to wage a no-risk campaign or to worry about the GOP, even if Republican true believers ignore McCain’s increasingly comical, desperate and inexplicably loony reaction to Obama’s travels.
gopher2b
Perhaps. I do think a lot more “open-minded” people listen to Rush than you may think but probably not Hannity.
I can just see this narrative forming before my eyes. Obama can give speeches but nothing else, he’s a meglomaniac-JFK wanna be with delusions of being World President. This type of shit usually starts with Rush and trickles out from there. Once that is formed then it oozes into the media and pop culture and he is defined.
I must say that I agree it probably won’t matter in the end. But that has more to do with McCain’s campaign team thinking an oil rig is a good place for a Republican photo op and their other astonishingly bad ideas.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
gopher2b,
I echo what nightjar just said. Please stick around, you’ll do well once you get the hang of the place. Having the stones to admit publically that you pulled a bad lever for Bush and now regret it puts you in some pretty good company – kind of like an AA meeting.
I’m a relative noob to commenting here but have lurked since 2006. IMHO this place is bipolar with regard to sincerity/authenticity. Either wear your heart on your sleeve and stand up in the thick of the food fight for what you believe in, or go all the way the opposide with snark and spoof. Either way, you’ll do well.
It’s the concern trolls that get ripped to shreds in these parts. If you don’t agree with a viewpoint, don’t defend it.
Genine
I don’t know about the first part, but for the second, I see what you’re saying but the media narratives but if this election has shown anything; media narratives are having less effect on people.
gopher2b
Actually, I thought I acknowledged the double-standard.
You’re right, though, I shouldn’t name call. But someone else started it :)
Genine
There’s so much grammatically wrong with that sentence, I can’t even begin to count the ways.
But you get what I mean.(I hope!) :) lol
Brachiator
I was partly asking whether you knew that McCain had visited Mexico and Latin America. But now I wonder whether you are so stuck on the theme of the double-standard that you don’t realize how quickly it dribbles off into absurdity:
“Obama should not have left the country to give a speech.”
“But McCain left the country to give a speech.”
“I hate Obama anyway.”
This doesn’t appear to be the case in the Los Angeles area. The most fervent Rush adherents regularly call the other hosts on the station that carries Rush’s show and are shocked to find that no one is interested in hewing to a conservative party line.
As Genine has noted, the GOP doesn’t understand the degree to which their attempts to define Obama only works for the true believers, and some undecideds.
But thanks for playing.
zuzu's petals
I don’t know if he said the Pentagon asked him not to go, but I did read that they cancelled because the Pentagon said it was considered a campaign event, which the Obama campaign thought would be inappropriate.
AP
The fact is that the trip through Europe was a campaign trip paid for with campaign funds. The trips to Afghanistan and Iraq were as part of a congressional delegation, not campaign trips.
Guardian
Xenos
Joe Scarborough declared this morning that “Obama refused to visit the injured troops” would be a major Republican talking point this fall. So nice of him to admit the party is run by professional liars. Lets see if he calls them on it when they do it.