Clinton Parables
More relevant than ever:
I will say this one more time. All the times over the past few years when the Republicans would repeat their mantra that the “Democrats are worse,” they were not talking about the Democrats, they were talking about the Clinton family.
And they were probably right.
Consider this an open thread.
*** Update ***
Now that I have calmed down, that probably was a little over the top.
*** Update #2 ***
Crazy person. Point and laugh:
Desperate to get attention for her cause to seat Florida and Michigan delegates, Hillary Clinton compared the plight of Zimbabweans in their recent fraudulent election to the uncounted votes of Michigan and Florida voters saying it is wrong when “people go through the motions of an election only to have them discarded and disregarded.”“We’re seeing that right now in Zimbabwe,” Clinton explained. “Tragically, an election was held, the president lost, they refused to abide by the will of the people,” Clinton told the crowd of senior citizens at a retirement community in south Florida.
I think it is time to stop taking her seriously. Let’s run a contest to see who can come up with the stupidest comment from any member of a Clinton campaign between now and June 3rd. Winner gets a 25 dollar gift certificate to Amazon or a $25 donation to their charity of choice.
And no, you can not use crazy statements from Hill-bloggers.
Just Some Fuckhead
FIRST! WOOHOO!! NOTHING TO SAY EXCEPT FIRST
!
Zifnab
Haha. I love these.
PK
Nah! However bad the Clintons are they cannot hold a candle to the republicans. She is power hungry greedy and unprincipled. Republcans are evil in a criminal way. Bush, Cheney and the republicans would, if they could reduce the US to a Zimbabwe like state. Deep down they are fascists. Hillary is small potatoes by comparison
Conservatively Liberal
I think Hillary and Bill missed their true calling. They should have been opera singers. I can just hear them warming up before the show:
me me me meeeeeeee
Just Some Fuckhead
JC, is it me or does it seem like those fuckers at GOS are trying to crash you at least once a day now?
John Cole
What in the last four months leads you to still believe that?
And what in the behavior of the last four months leads you to believe that her administration would be an ABSOLUTE nightmare. Bunker mentality from day one. It would be like Bush, but with different priorities. A disaster.
Not to mention, her campaign has been such a disaster I am convinced it would be equally as incompetent as Bush.
John Cole
We are moving to a new platform at the end of July with a site re-design. It will just have to suck until then.
zzyzx
Hey Clinton? How can we understand the clear intent of the voters if OBAMA WASN’T ON THE BALLOT
?
?! Sheesh.
flavortext
At least Republicans were elected through legitimate elections. Clinton wants to ride two sham elections, including one where she was unopposed, to the the oval office.
Disgusting.
Just Some Fuckhead
I’ll throw some money in the tip jar. It’s the least I can do. :)
Z
As I said in the last thread, perhaps as a consolation prize for losing the Democratic nomination, we could give the Clinton team the gold medal and world record for shark jumping. I do believe they have earned it.
Just Some Fuckhead
I’m going to a large family reunion in Southeast West Virginia this weekend. Just to keep things interesting, I’m wearing my Obama T-shirt!
johninpt
Now She-berman is comparing the Florida situation to the election in Zimbabwe. Class act.
nightjar
That’s why I haven’t made a serious comment today on the HRC wingnuttery. There’s only so many ways you can say she’s a lying, cheating, self-serving %$%. And for the misogyny police that was possibly sexist, now prove it.
nightjar
I tried to stop the comment. The blockquote should be
Dennis - SGMM
She seems to have made the choice between a graceful exit and a bitter, scorched-earth fight to the finish.
Hillary Clinton: She’d rather have her party die for her. She’ll finish up by campaigning for McCain and then bray “Sexism!” when the Dems strip her of her committee assginments.
Conservatively Liberal
Fixed.
rawshark
Can Pittsburgh beat Detroit? I hope they can but Detroit just looks too tough this year. No one is getting quality shots on goal against them.
Tim C.
“And they were probably right.”
No they weren’t. Not even close. The Clintons with all their baggage understand 1.453(10^200) times more about morality, power and and the theory of constitutional government than the current GOP ever will. Bill and Hillary Clinton might be deeply flawed in some ways, but Bill Clinton didn’t get 4000 Americans, and god knows how many Iraqis killed. Bill didn’t double down in Somalia, he saw the situation was not in the US interest and was willing to take the political lumps at home over it. Hillary care might have been far from adequate and ineptly presented, but it would have enormously better than what we have today. Even Hillary’s current actions have directly killed no one. Her actions today and for what I hope is the next two weeks should inspire feelings of pity, not scorn. We should be talking her supporters down off the ledge, not heaping more pain on them. Yeah it feels good to flame, but let’s hold back and let her either hang herself on her own or come down quietly.
I should really have more paragraphs.
Genine
You could call her a lying, cheating, self-serving SCUMBAG. “Scumbag” is gender-neutral. So, it should keep the misogyny police at bay.
Though, until recently, I thought “periodically” was gender-neutral… so what the hell do I know?
Ted Kennedy
John Cole:
And they were probably right.
No, they weren’t.
Worse than George Bush? Worse than the rest of the Republicans?
Just remember, John, no matter how much the Clintons annoy you, they would appoint competent people to the Executive branch – as they did in Bill’s term – rather than the incompetent cronies Bush and the Republicans specialize in.
.
johninpt
“Bill didn’t double down in Somalia, he saw the situation was not in the US interest and was willing to take the political lumps at home over it.”
Sorry, Bill’s dropping Somalia like a hot potato was no act of political courage, it was the opposite. Then he used Somalia as an excuse to sit on his hands while the genocide in Rwanda raged. May he burn in hell.
John Cole
Like the competent people who ran her campaign?
Like the competent people who devised the 27 state straegy and blew through millions before February 5th?
Like the people ripping the party in half?
Like the people spreading this mendacious, divisive bullshit?
Those “competent” people?
El Doh
“scumbag” is an olde word for condom. So it is, no doubt, incredibly sexist and insulting.
After all, isn’t everything when it’s said about Hillary?
Rick Taylor
Cue Clinton supporter saying, well no one forced him to take his name off the ballot.
El Doh
We just had that in the other thread. It was “boneheaded,” apparently.
Jeff
“Like the people ripping the party in half?
Like the people spreading this mendacious, divisive bullshit?
Those “competent” people?”
Hey, so you admit they’re good at something. =)
I have no idea what I’ll do now if she somehow manages to pull a fast one… I’m so absolutely disgusted, but I’m worried about the Supreme Court. I’d probably stab a fork into my eye while I did it, but John McCain isn’t really an option.
PeterJ
A McCain administration will be shit, a Clinton adminstration might be less shit, but in the end it’s still shit.
Helena Montana
Clinton clearly can’t decide whether it pays better for her to be The Strong Woman or The Professional Victim. As far as I’m concerned she’s equally fake and repellent in either role. I’ve been a woman for 57 years and it really pisses me off that so many other women are letting her make us all look stupid.
On the plus side, the really good thing about being a woman at this point in history is that I can say, loud and proud, I HATE that mendacious strident whiny bitch, and nobody can call me sexist.
eastriver
JC, I don’t really think that you actually believe that the Clintons are worst than Bush. I think you’re just saying that because you always get a huge response from such stupid, purposefully inflammatory statements.
But, for the sake of sophistry, let’s pretend that you actually mean that the Clintons are worse than Bush. Please name anything either Clinton as ever done that rised anywhere near the level of the pointless, voluntary, illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq.
Go ahead.
Can’t do it, can you?
No, I didn’t think you actually meant it.
(HRC disclaimer; I didn’t vote for her, I don’t support her, and I’ve never given her money.)
dj spellchecka
ot a little, but i wanted to mention the right wings latest outrage is that the media didn’t mention that a local rock band, the decemberists, played before obama’s rally in portland, and they had a major effect on the crowd sise being 70,000. the decemberists!! i love them, but please.
t jasper parnell
Apparently, John Cole has it backwards.
dj spellchecka
also ot, but my fave story of the day. FBI LOOKING FOR INFORMANTS TO INFLILTRATE VEGAN POTLUCKS.
this happened up in minneapolis where the fbi is sure that terrorists hellbent on disrupting the republican convention are lurking at the local vegan potluck.
i swear i’m not making this up.
http://search.yahoo.com/search.....8;ei=UTF-8
Tiparillo
The stupidity at NRO, it burns
Just Some Fuckhead
It was Bill Clinton that signed the Republican Iraqi Liberation Act in ‘98 that laid the groundwork for this mess. Following up on that, Hillary Clinton voted for the AUMF which everyone knew George Bush was going to use to invade.
Thanks for playing.
Ted Kennedy
John Cole:
No, not those incompetents. Bill had asshole consultants, too – remember Dick Morris?
Competent people like Robert Rubin (at the time), Robert Reich, and James Witt, et. al.
None of these people were perfect (well, maybe Witt) but they knew how to do their jobs.
.
Dreggas
Clinton clearly can’t decide whether it pays better for her to be The Strong Woman or The Professional Victim. As far as I’m concerned she’s equally fake and repellent in either role. I’ve been a woman for 57 years and it really pisses me off that so many other women are letting her make us all look stupid.
On the plus side, the really good thing about being a woman at this point in history is that I can say, loud and proud, I HATE that mendacious strident whiny bitch, and nobody can call me sexist.
Nope you’re just self-hating. :P
El Doh
I think I lost IQ points by reading that article.
rawshark
Sorry, Bill’s dropping Somalia like a hot potato was no act of political courage, it was the opposite.
Bill didn’t drop Somalia. It was the republicans in congress who said get the fuck out now. Clinton wanted to wait.
eastriver
JUST SOME FUCKHEAD, if you believe that BC signing the RILA act in ‘98 is equal to invasion and occupation, YOU ARE A MORON. And if you think Hillary, or any other Senator, voting against the AUMF was going to stop Dubya, YOU ARE SMOKING CRACK.
Thank YOU for playing.
JGabriel
Dammit. I’m still posting as TK from a lame joke earlier this afternoon.
Hopefully this post will fix that.
Ted
Huh. Does this apply to the weather as well? If it rains more often after Obama wins, does that mean the weather doesn’t like him?
Methinks Kudlow is back on the powder.
El Doh
I’ve seen plenty of women called deluded patriarch supporting misogynists during this primary, unfortunately.
Apparently, those born female are TRAITORS if they vote for a male when a female is running.
I don’t know if you’re required to turn in your membership card, or just grow a penis. I tried asking, but apparently that too was chauvinist.
I believe the underlying problem that us guys as well as the poor deluded non-Hillary-supporting women don’t get is that actually running a competent campaign against Hillary was the ultimate act of sexism.
Tiparillo
I think I lost IQ points by reading that article.
Did Kudlow miss oil going over $134 and the Fed lowering its growth forecast for the U.S.?
nightjar
And now word has it Big Brother has a LIST of names of possible dissidents in case of a “National Emergency”. Anybody asks me, I never heard of Balloon Juice or that Cole character.
Just Some Fuckhead
Dumbass, you are trying to pretend that George Bush just up and invaded Iraq one day in a surprise attack between an hour of peg board puzzling and his “let some gas out” walk around the Rose Garden.
But that’s not actually what happened. Wingnuts have been trying to invade Iraq and take out Saddam since the first gulf war. By signing the Iraqi Liberation Act, Bill Clinton enabled these jokers, elevated their cause and put us on the road to war.
When HRC signed the AUMF, she knew George Bush was going to go to war with her vote. She said it. Neither of them – the highest profile Democrats in the Democratic party – DID ONE SINGLE THING TO STOP THE MARCH TO WAR. Nope, in fact, through their actions they helped it right along.
This is the mindset we are trying to change by supporting Obama. You can make excuses for it, I’m going to defeat it.
Raenelle
No they weren’t. And no they weren’t.
Just talking about the Clintons. And probably right.
I’d even spot you the point (out of some liberal-minded knee-jerk inclination to compromise) that the Republicans had an extra special dread of the Clintons that transcended the normal partisan divide. But on what planet, in what universe, in what era or eon, where in fucking hell were the Clintons worse than Bush or the crowd he rode in on.
Dennis - SGMM
Bush may have gone ahead without the AUMF although it’s difficult to see how he could have managed it. Nonetheless, if the vote was meaningless why not come down on the right side of the issue rather than the Bush side of it? And why later say that you were misled by Bush or that you didn’t really think that he’d invade. If she was misled by Bush then she is too gullible to be president. If she didn’t believe that Bush would invade then she’s too stupid to be president.
Notorious P.A.T.
Well yeah! It was hers, she had it coming. She had earned it, after all, by. . . well. . . by doing something.
rawshark
A couple of wingy friends of mine have recently mentioned that, according to where they get news there is an unlimited supply of oil on the planet. I said it was BS and the BS is put out by oil companies trying to head off a movement to alternative fuels, fuels they aren’t in the business of selling. I try to tell them to apply some of that skepticism they have in ample supply when a democrat is saying things and direct it towards a republican once in a while. Of course this was a waste of time but I was wondering if anyone else had heard of the unlimited supply of oil theory?
PeterJ
God has given us enough oil so that it will last until the Rapture™, so I guess it’s unlimited for those that won’t be Left Behind™.
I find it more likely that the end of oil will bring us Armageddon™.
rawshark
Have you ever gotten one to admit that? I was a wingnut in the 90’s and I’m well aware of the fact that as soon as we got a republican in the White House Saddam was toast. But it seems current wingnuts won’t admit this now. They act like PNAC isn’t real. Or maybe this just don’t acknowledge it around whoever isn’t a branded cult member.
eastriver
JUST SOME FUCKHEAD, please, god, use some sense. Even if you believe that BC signing something “put us on the road”, surely you understand that there is A HUGE DIFFERENCE between that, and actually invading and occupying another country?
Don’t you see the difference? If you don’t, you need to step back and try to figure out why. Seriously.
You might HRC think is a detestable piece of shit, and I’m not here to defend her, but she has never done anything in her life that comes a country mile within INVADING AND OCCUPYING ANOTHER COUNTRY.
Her vote might be despicable and politically motivated, but it’s not a war crime.
Please cut the hyperbolic bullshit.
HRC doesn’t equal GWB, as much as you wish it were true.
John Cole
You are right.
That being said, I have seen nothing out of her the past few months that tells me they can’t be just as bad.
BTW- I bet co-opting the civil rights era in an attempt to steal a nomination from the black guy is part of the Clinton camps plan to win in November. Sure thatwill go over really well.
Regardless, now that I have calmed down, all of you are right.
Dennis - SGMM
eastriver,
protip: Extensive use of caps is the sign of a spittle-flecked post.
John S.
Don’t sweat it. After all, the tag for the post is:
I Can No Longer Rationally Discuss The Clinton Campaign
I’ ve been coming here for years mainly because you are honest.
Just Some Fuckhead
Don’t you see the difference? If you don’t, you need to step back and try to figure out why. Seriously.
Dumbass, HRC
DIDinvade Iraq. Just as much as George Bush did, for all the same reasons, and with all the same intelligence. She doesn’t get a pass because she’s a fucking Democrat. If being a Democrat gets her anything, it’s being held to a higher standard.Imagine a world where the Clintons fought against the invasion of Iraq as hard as they’ve fought Obama. But they didn’t do that. No, instead, they helped it right along.
Just Some Fuckhead
oops.. forgot about the weird strikeout behavior with dashes.
John S.
Absolutely.
One is murder. The other is accomplice to murder.
Point taken.
Dennis - SGMM
Imagine a world where president Hillary Clinton chose to obliterate Iran.
1jpb
Very early on last year I assumed that I’d vote for HRC. But, as I looked into things I decided that HRC had been playing it safe in the Senate. There was no evidence that she had learned how to build coalitions and pass dificult legislation that affects the whole country or the world (e.g. being the lead D on gov. spending accountablility online and expanding international arms control, or one of two lead Ds on the biggest ethics reform in 25 years.)
Since I’ve decided to support BHO I’ve learned that HRC is even more bluster than I originally thought. Thankfully she’s finally stopped claiming credit for SCHIP in her stump speech (since she was only recruited by Congressional leaders as they worked to convince WJC to approve SCHIP, but more importantly Congressional leaders changed the funding source, which was WJC’s objection.) And, I don’t hear her talking about being “instrumental” to peace in Ireland, nevermind that none of the books written about the process name her in any way. And, she’s backed away from the Tuzla and FMLA claims. She’s apparently hidden away Penn (although he’s still closer than Morris—another sleazy pollster who HRC had approved of and depended on.) She seems to have stopped creating ever changing and empty slogans (e.g. Changemaker, Yes She Will, Doer, Resultser, Solutionser, Fighter.)
But, now my concerns about her leadership style have been confirmed. The reason I’ve felt she’s not fit for the presidency is now clear for all to see. We are seeing the removal of the facade of HRC as the get-along-Senator. We see that in a pinch HRC is exactly the same as she was when she played dictator while pushing her health care reform. Nothing’s changed.
My guess is that the more we see of the real HRC, the less successful she will be.
Genine
Clinton clearly can’t decide whether it pays better for her to be The Strong Woman or The Professional Victim. As far as I’m concerned she’s equally fake and repellent in either role. I’ve been a woman for 57 years and it really pisses me off that so many other women are letting her make us all look stupid.
On the plus side, the really good thing about being a woman at this point in history is that I can say, loud and proud, I HATE that mendacious strident whiny bitch, and nobody can call me sexist.
Oh, Helena. Never underestimate your “sisters”.
Of course they can call you sexist AND misogynistic even though you’re a woman. Hell, and voting for Obama? They’ll have you wanting to repeal Roe V. Wade and the 19th amendment before the end of the year.
protected static
Yup. There is a school of thought that argues for the abiotic (non-fossil) origin of hydrocarbon fuels, pointing to Titan and to bubbles containing C-13 coming from deep ocean vents. (I’d heard about it before, but only now googled the details...) This then gets distorted to something along the lines of “well, since it isn’t dependent upon a limited supply of fossilized organics, it must be endless.”
flavortext
Yeah. It’s bull.
Julie
ot a little, but i wanted to mention the right wings latest outrage is that the media didn’t mention that a local rock band, the decemberists, played before obama’s rally in portland, and they had a major effect on the crowd sise being 70,000. the decemberists!!
Okay, yeah. They sold out Edgefield last summer, but that was with the help of Menomena and McMenamins’s seemlingly endless supply of cheap booze.
75,000 people? I don’t think so. Half the people at the Edgefield concert wandered off to play pitch-and-putt as soon as Menomena finished their set.
PK
Look I am not denying that the Clintons are bad, but f I still think there is a fundamental difference between artheir level badness (so to speak) and the republicans. Bill Clinton was a very competent and able guy and Hillary is a smart knowledgable woman. I think she wants the presidency so bad that she has completely lost it. She will not make a good president, she is far too divisive, but Bush and the republicans are a different league altogether.
Hillary may be incompetent, but she is not stupid. Bush on the other hand is both.
He played right into Osama Bin Laden’s hand. Bush has created more terrorists and more enemies for the US than Bin laden ever could. He has fought a useless war. He has increased the debt. He has shredded the Geneva convention.
Domestically he has placed incompetents in every agency. The EPA is anti environment, the FDA is useless, FEMA anyone? Nothing has been done for global warming, nothing has been done to reduce oil dependence. The list is too long.
Hillary does not even come close.
Justin
That would be Obama’s campaign and his supporters, including ex-Republicans such as yourself, John.
AlphaFactor
You know… I was watching Olbermann. I was surprised to learn some things. Turns out, that a number of presidents served only limited time in elected offices before becoming president. FDR=6years combined as gov & state sen; T.Roosevelt=2.5years combined as gov & v.prez. Same with Woodrow Wilson.
How this little insight might relate to the candidacies of Clinton, Obama, and McCain… Mmm. Open question.
John Cole
Ex-Republican and current Democrat, thank you.
And could you please explain what rules I have violated, broken, etc., to help lead to this crisis. All I did was campaign, raise money for my candidate, and vote, and support him as he followed the rules as laid out by the DNC.
So divisive, hunh?
flavortext
Ha, this will be good. How exactly is this the fault of Obama, his campaign, and his supporters?
Dennis - SGMM
Actually, they played two weeks before Obama’s speech. Guess everyone just hung out in the parking lot afterwards. Sadly, No! debunked this one already.
Adam
There’s a diary at the GOS from a Florida Democrat that is worth reading:
And the simple answer to that simple question is: You can’t.
You knew. But now, as our party struggles with internecine warfare and bitter partisans from both sides take increasingly strident tones, hurling invective like orangutans flinging poo, now you decide that you are owed a voice in this contest, a contest in which you gave up your involvement the day you allowed the Florida Democratic Party to say that they had to “prioritize what they work on to achieve the best they can for Floridians”, a beautiful piece of doublespeak which essentially says that Democratic state senators and representatives had better things to do than to make sure we followed DNC rules.
t jasper parnell
If there is an endless supply of oil wouldn’t that mean that the turtles are floating on it? And wouldn’t that mean that as we use it the turtles move lower? And wouldn’t that mean that the earth will fall out of its place at the center of the solar system? From which it follows: Global cooling. On the other hand, maybe the oil fuels the Earth’s internal furnace, it which case: Global cooling. Either way for the sake of the children, we must stop using oil to stop global cooling.
Jack H.
What’s three past jumping the shark? Surfing the whale? Hillary just got there.
Dennis - SGMM
Ha, this will be good. How exactly is this the fault of Obama, his campaign, and his supporters?
Had we not selfishly and recklessly derailed Hillary’s coronation none of this would be happening.
John Cole
Does it make me uncool that I have no clue who the Decembrists are?
Just Some Fuckhead
Still tho, the Obama campaign deserves mad props for reaching out to the utes with concerts, as they did in other places.
I’m sure McCain and Company is already trying to line up Lee Greenwood and Connie Stevens to duplicate this success.
Genine
I have to agree with that. She’s not stupid. They are in different leagues.
Anyway, I don’t like to think ill of her. She is a Democrat and as such, is held to some standards. I think there are some things she won’t do.
AlphaFactor
Does it make me uncool that I have no clue who the Decembrists are?
No.
Kevin
So divisive, hunh?
You stood in the way of Hillary Clinton’s coronation as the Sun Queen, duh.
Ghost Poet
No – IMO The Decembrists are an awful whiny wannabe They Might Be Giants, it’s cooler that you don’t know who they are.
nightjar
Like the people ripping the party in half?
That would be Obama’s campaign and his supporters, including ex-Republicans such as yourself, John.
BAW HA HA HA BWWAA HA HA, HEE HEE HEE. That’s a good one Justin the self spoofer.
myiq2xu
Read it again Dennis. The Decemberists did play the rally.
The SN post shows that two weeks before they played a small venue holding less than 1000 people, which undercuts the idea that the band was the real reason for the size of the 5/18 rally.
t jasper parnell
Via TPM the rules committee make up for FL/MI
The 30 members of the committee can ask questions at any time. They’ll meet again in the afternoon to thrash out a solution, and that could generate fireworks. About a dozen of the committee members have endorsed Sen. Hillary Clinton; eight have endorsed Sen. Barack Obama. Two members work for the Clinton campaign, including strategist Harold Ickes. The two chairmen—Alexis Herman and James Roosevelt Jr.–are neutral, but Herman served in the Clinton White House.
flavortext
“This is just like Germany after the Reichstag fire in 1933,” Clinton explained. “Tragically, an election was held, but the Nazis refused to count the KPD in the election.”
Hey, you never know when this primary’s going to get Godwin’d!
myiq2xu
No, that’s not the reason.
Dennis - SGMM
They were a group of Russian army officers who, in December of 1825 led 3000 troops in protest of Nicholas I’s ascension to the throne of Russia. Why anyone would would want to see a bunch of long dead Russians in concert is beyond me. Kids.
eastriver
One is murder. The other is accomplice to murder.
Point taken.
So you think HRC should be in jail? Because she helped murder somebody?
Putz.
Just Some Fuckhead
Hey, you never know when this primary’s going to get Godwin’d!
LMAO
nightjar
Goodness gracious, is Myiq2 defending the MUP, strange turnings of teh worm indeed.
myiq2xu
My guess why they thought it would count would be that their state government and state party told them it was official and would count.
Adam
I think that’s a pretty serious oversimplification of the situation in Iraq in the 90s. Everyone knew that the sanctions were a disaster, but there was no consensus on what to do about it within or between the parties. I did an enormous amount of research on the topic and all I could ever get out of it was that it was a clusterfuck that no one knew how to fix.
(Ironically, the post-2001 trajectory was actually a serious improvement—we finally got some leverage after 9/11 to get inspectors back in, which could have opened the door to lifting the sanctions, which everyone knew were really only hurting the Iraqi people anyway, while Hussein was getting rich off oil smuggling and blaming everything wrong in the country on the big evil UN and their sanctions… but of course we’ve since fucked that up pretty royally)
For example—you may recall that the GOP was hardcore isolationist and anti-interventionist until 2001. Remember W saying in the debate with Gore that he would never eva eva get involved in nation-building? Remember the GOP Congress losing their fucking minds when Clinton launched cruise missiles and calling it a wag the dog strategy? Or the insane anti-imperialism froth they went into over Kosovo? (That last one was the weirdest, IMO, when compared to Iraq today.)
The neocons in PNAC were only one small voice in that cacophony of insanity, but it was their vaguely-guilt-motivated American-power trip that had the most resonance after 9/11, so that was what took hold. But it wasn’t even close to a foregone conclusion before then.
myiq2xu
Don’t blaspheme
Dennis - SGMM
I stand corrected. Again.
Adam
ROFL
Welcome back, I understand that it may take you a while to get back into true trolling form—take your time
Kevin
How ‘bout that Hagee guy saying that God sent Hitler to push the Jews to Israel?
nightjar
And to boot, they sometimes open their concerts with a stirring rendition of the Soviet National Anthem. Though I think they didn’t at Portland Obama event.
Just Some Fuckhead
I think God sent Hagee to punish us all, dear heart.
NR
Sorry John, but this is not funny.
It’s looking more and more like Hillary is going to declare Obama’s primary win illegitimate and cause us to lose in November, and we’ll have to suffer through another four years of insane GOP policies so she can run again in 2012.
I’m not laughing. I’m pissed.
TR
Not really, but you might like them. Sixteen Military Wives has a nice video that somehow combines “Rushmore” and a mockery of Bush-era foreign relations.
Dennis - SGMM
Aha! Obama had a bunch of commie-lovers open for him. I get the picture. Now I have to thumb back through the memes to the time when Obama was obviously a communist.
Adam
Also, not knowing who the Decembrists are doesn’t make a person uncool, it makes them lucky and blessed that they’ve never had to hear Colin Meloy’s fucking nails-on-a-scratchboard voice. If they were headlining an Obama rally, that’s one of a very few things that would probably convince me to stay home.
Just Some Fuckhead
I think Ryan Lizza is slowly morphing into Les Nessman… need to start a bowtie watch.
wasabi gasp
Its a black thing.
Mary
John, meet The Decemberists:
The Mariner’s Revenge Song (YouTube amateur video to the CD track, runs 8:48)
The Wiki summary if you can’t sit through the whole thing.
Yeah, they’re twee, but the theme of monomania and revenge seems to fit.
TR
You watch for bowties, I’ll watch for plummeting turkeys.
Ted
“Think of when Chancellor Palpatine dissolved the Senate of the Galactic Republic,” Clinton implored the gathered reporters. “The people of almost every race had democratic representation, and then it was ripped away from them! And ah don’t want the same thing to happen to the residents of Florida and Michigan,” she declared.
Fwiffo
Lanny Davis on Fox News I think ranks in your contest.
Julie
Stephen Colbert vs. The Decemberists
myiq2xu
With God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!
Just Some Fuckhead
Hahaha.
Just Some Fuckhead
Oh you all are killing me. (wiping tears)
AkaDad
Some people are saying, that when Obama puts forth his first budget, there will be a 666 billion dollar reparations package, funded by a surcharge on whitey.
Krista
Yeowch. That was succinctly put.
Just Some Fuckhead
If you mean making Hee Haw pay-per-view, it’s no longer on the air. But it was an excellent plan otherwise.
w vincentz
AkaDad,
I hope Haggie doesn’t read this thread. You know what he’ll say about the 666 reference.
Warren Terra
Surely if you have to ask whether you’re cool, you’re not?
And I think that I have the, ah, clinical distance from ‘coolness’ required to legitimately opine on this question …
Delia
Oh, golly gee, I never thought of it that way. I mean, it sounds like we better give Hillary those delegates after all, or the Jedi Knights will be destroyed. Better yet, send her off to be Queen of Naboo and let her bother someone else. Make sure she takes that idiot Lisa Caputo with her. She’s as bad as Dana Perino.
Warren Terra
Delia, I dunno. It seems to me that if we’re not really, really careful in how we respond to the situation you describe, we could wind up having our own Senator Jar Jar Binks …
James Gary
“Think of when Chancellor Palpatine dissolved the Senate of the Galactic Republic,” Clinton implored the gathered reporters. “The people of almost every race had democratic representation, and then it was ripped away from them! And ah don’t want the same thing to happen to the residents of Florida and Michigan,” she declared.
Important note: Palpatine didn’t actually dissolve the Senate until he’d been Emperor for some time—in fact, it occurred chronologically near the beginning of “Star Wars,” since Vader tells the Death Star staff that the Senate’s been dissolved in the famous “I find your lack of faith disturbing” scene.
binzinerator
Aye, there’s the rub.
Oops. That undoubtedly makes that comment sexist.
Cain
At no time was there any advertisement on who was playing. Essentially it was supposed to be a surprise or some such like that. None of the volunteers knew who was going to be playing either, there was no announcement made or anything. We were told that there will be some musical entertainment. The flyers we gave out when we went door-to-door I do not remember mentioning who was playing.
cain
Cain
Can somebody kick Lieberman in the head and tell him to sit down and STFU? We need a majority so we can strip this guy of whatever responsibility he has and demote him to McCain asshole licker. It’s an important job because McCain talks out of his ass all the time and it gets dirty all the time.
cain
zzyzx
I actually like the Decemberists but I’m from the Pac NW so it’s the law to do so.
Bob In Pacifica
I’m sorry, did the Zimbabweans move their primary to before Super Tuesday? Just asking.
KRK
Especially when those people are given five months’ notice that the election won’t count for anything. And regardless of what the politicians might have said, the not-counting was kind of covered in the local press.
So Ausman is the challenger for FL? He also was part of the FL delegation that spoke to the DNC committee last August trying to get them to forgo sanctions. His remarks conceded that Florida had broken the DNC rules, but argued that the DNC should be merciful rather than fair:
Delia
The crack investigators at No Quarter used their extra special secret source,Newsbusters, (which I won’t bother to link to, because it’s all such bullshit and because cain’s a better secret source) to uncover this thrilling story of why so many people turned out in Portland to hear Obama speak.
Agent Flowbee is still waiting for his secret sources to come up with the incriminating Michelle Obama tape.
Just Some Fuckhead
A mercy killing would be a good compromise.
binzinerator
I sincerly hope Obama doesn’t give Hillary jack shit. He’s going to be the Dem nominee. Any one who wasn’t a fool knew that several months ago. But what she’s been doing—the GOP-patterned attacks—has made me go from being a Dem proud to have her as a candidate to dismayed to horrified to angry.
Fuck Hillary. I really hope Obama doesn’t give her jack as a concilatory gesture, certainly not the VP.
She’s done everything—fucking everything—to make this nomination process as toxic and divisive as possible. Because she really is thinking about 2012 now. She’s not in it for 2008. She’s mining the field to hamper Obama, if not to fail against McCain, then as a last-ditch effort to run against him in 2012.
If Obama foolishly co-opts the hardcore Clinton people into his administration, I am certain that these people will be a never ending source of leaks, undercutting, and knee-capping. They will try to Carter-ize him.
The core of Hillary supporters is determined to “win it for Hillary” and damn everyone else. What is good for the nation and everyone in it is of secondary importance to getting Hillary into the White House on her own terms.
Although I don’t yet agree that Hillary would be as bad as Bush (God help us as a nation if we get 3 terms of Bush-style goverment) JC is right about a lot of things about Hillary in particluar (and the Clintons in general).
This nomination contest has shown that for Hillary it is about Hillary. And for the hard core Hillary supporters—the stupid feminists who make me ashamed I had categorically supported feminism (I still do, but no longer without question, but perhaps that is a good thing, for any movement), the boomers who knee-jerk vote for “one of their own”, and the uneducated whites who gullibly think she has represented their best interests—I’d say there is little likelihood to change willful stupidity and stubbornness and blindness.
Let them believe as they want to. But beware of relying on them. President Obama may welcome them, but they will ultimately serve Hillary.
Kyle E. Moore
Does it have to be a member of the campaign staff? I have one that trumps anything anyone could ever say, EVER!
cleek
it’s like not knowing who the U2 is, or who The Rolling Stones are, or who Led Zeppelin is, or not knowing any of the rest of the small handful of bands who could draw a crowd of 75,000. how could you not know the premier rock band of our age ?
as far as Hillary… i’ll just post this again:
my prediction is: she’ll stay in the race, fighting as she has been, losing overall, but staying close. but, along the way, a so-far-unknown legal avenue will open up for her, which she will exploit, sending the party into disarray, but eventually giving her the nomination.
Conservatively Liberal
I would really like to see her try to run in 2012. She has burned so many bridges in the progressive community that if Obama wins the primary and loses the general, people are going be waiting to get back at her when she announces her run for 2012.
She now knows that to win the primary she needs to do a heck of a lot more than her ‘16 States of America Grand Illusion Tour’, like visiting all of the states to secure the primary.
I will bet that the people in the states that her, her campaign and her supporters have dumped on in this primary will be primed and ready to hand her ass to her in their primary, and then kick her out of the state. Hillary dislike is visceral now, and people are not going to easily forget it as time passes.
If anything, a Hillary campaign in 2012 will look like that scene in ‘Airplane’ where people line up to beat the crap out of the screaming woman.
But the line to thump Hillary will be miles and miles long.
eastriver
binzinerator, you are an angry and bitter Betty.
Cheer up, little Buttercup.
Turn that frown upsidedown.
OR nobody will want to play with you. Everyone will want to laugh at you.
Just Some Fuckhead
Line starts here!
Called it.
eastriver
Called it.
Wow. Physical violence against women. Classy.
So very, very classy.
(These commenters must make you so proud, JC.)
BFR
That’s not going to happen.
Just Some Fuckhead
I’m willing to start with you if it’ll make you feel better.
Conservatively Liberal
Here is an interesting statistic to note:
Out of the total remaining pledged and super delegates on May 19th, Hillary needed three delegates to every one Obama got to beat him in the primary.
Then she ‘kicked his ass’ yesterday, May 20th.
Today, May 21st, out of the total remaining pledged and super delegates she now need four delegates for every Obama gets to beat him in the primary.
Way to go! Keep up the great work Hillary!
John Cole
So very, very classy.
(These commenters must make you so proud, JC.)
Once again, rhetorical devices scare Hillary supporters.
The original quote:
If anything, a Hillary campaign in 2012 will look like that scene in ‘Airplane’ where people line up to beat the crap out of the screaming woman.
But the line to thump Hillary will be miles and miles long.
Pretty clearly, they were talking about voting her down. Like the “thumping” that Hillary gave Obama in WV and Kentucky (OMG! Hillary supporters are talking about racial violence because Obama got “thumped” and had his “ass kicked!”). See how dumb you look now?
Christ, some of you people are stupid. No one is talking about physical violence, you troll.
Conservatively Liberal
Only a Clintonista of the highest caliber would take what I said and misconstrue it into physical violence.
You should be proud of yourself. Go ahead, break your arm patting yourself on the back. You have earned it!
John Cole
They are like wingnuts who, instead of being infatuated with warmongering, are instead struck with a true love of identity politics and victimization.
I really think that is Hillary’s ploy now- become such the victim that we just have to give her the nomination- BECAUSE OF SOCIETY’S GRIEVOUS INSULT TO WOMEN!
BethanyAnne
You know. I just have to say. I get so angry at the idiocy at TalkHillary (time for me to stop visiting, the stoopid is beginning to burn), then I come here, and I feel better. I see that I’m not the only one wanting to shout “She fucking lost! Get the fuck over it!”
/happysigh
Bethany
NR
She’s got half the party behind her. And even though she’ll lose some of them if she sabotages Obama, she’s betting on being able to get them back over the next four years. It’s the only way her actions make any sense – it’s all about 2012 now.
Just Some Fuckhead
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. That is exactly what her current plea is: overturn the results of the primary contests, superdelegates, because I have been victimized.
Conservatively Liberal
On target with that assessment John. Victim politics really makes a candidate look strong. Not.
It makes her look whiny and petty, and it is not helping her case IMO.
They are behind her now, but many of them are Democrats who will still vote for the party candidate. If they perceive that Hillary blew it for the party (not just Obama) this election, many of them may not vote for her in 2012. Plus the netroots will be building bunkers and loading their armories to get ready for her in 2012, and they will be taking potshots at her the whole time.
While there is a chance she could recover, if there is a credible candidate other than her then she really doesn’t stand a chance.
Regardless, people will be waiting for her, and she will not be able to start her campaign like she has this time. The tone will be set in advance, and that will not bode well for her.
Just my opinion.
BFR
I liked it when they had the article about the popular vote with the tagline – Hillary’s still winning.
The hyperlink went to RCP which showed 6 scenarios, two of which showed Clinton winning, 4 showed Obama winning.
JGabriel
Jack H.:
That’s one past jumping the shark.
Two past is: dancing with the squids.
Three past is: sucking down archeobacteria from volcanic vents at the bottom Mariana Trench.
.
Chuck Butcher
A 2012 run for the Senate alone may be difficult. There are problems now, any more of her crap and the problems multiply.
The Presidential nominee very much takes over the DNC which is already Dean oriented. Think about the machine being pissed along with a large piece of the Democrats. That machinery will still exist 4 years from now.
You could postulate that the only survival method available to Hillary is the control of the DNC through the nomination, an all or nothing strategy. I am uncomfortable with such theorizing, it assumes a lot including a type of thinking really un-political.
Delia
If Hillary blows it for the party this year, she will become a pariah, and she’ll be lucky to keep her Senate seat, let alone worry about a future Presidential bid. Remember, that the goopers have everything against them this year, and furthermore, it’s not just her further career that’s at stake, it’s Bill’s legacy, which has already been severely damaged by these campaign shenanigans.
I’m sure her head is way too far out in Cloud Cuckoo Land to realize that this is happening. She appears to be one of these arrogant people who has a rather fragile grasp on how others view her. But if she manages to shatter the Dem party this year, she’s going take a lot of downticket candidates with her, and there is no way in hell that the party will forgive her.
And another thing: we are looking this year at the possibilities of making real, long term Democratic gains in the Mountain West and the Midwest. The people in those regions are getting fed up with the goopers and with the right strategy are ready to go back to the Dems. But they’re not ready to go to Hillary. She doesn’t care about these things. She’s just happy to do her little racially coded messages to the good folks of Kentucky who will probably vote repug in November anyhow and to hell with the West.
Well, all I can say is, I hope the high party mucky mucks lay some things on the line for her highness when she gets to those meetings at the end of the month.
Pelikan
This idea of rewarding work instead of wealth is just insane.
From the NRO article mentioned earlier. Just a quick check, is there anyone who wouls support this statement? Christ, I thought only people who’d never actually gotten real jobs thought this way.
Maybe this is all a unique historical chance to throw all of the crazy people out of one of the parties and move ahead….
KRK
This is an argument for keeping the traditional primary schedule very much intact in 2012. With her popular vote count that excludes IA (and others) and her tantrums about MI and FL, Clinton has said a very loud and clear FU to Iowa and NH, whose loyalty pledge she embraced last fall and whose voters she courted so assiduously in January. Those are experienced, informed primary voters and they’re not going to forget or give her a pass, even 4 years from now.
Michele
Oh, me three, me THREE! Can we start a club for “Women who have been feminists for decades and now really HATE Hillary, ‘cuz we spent years defending her and it turns out she really IS that arrogant and conniving and power-mad and delusional?”
Probably need a shorter name, I know -
NR
That’s just it, though. If Obama wins in November, he becomes the leader of the Democratic party, but if he loses, he won’t be able to claim that mantle and it will return to the Clintons by default. Pelosi and Reid aren’t strong enough to challenge them, and there aren’t any particularly compelling rising stars I can think of who could either.
Without an obvious, strong challenger for the 2012 nomination, Hillary probably figures that she can get enough of the party behind her to take it. The odds may not be great, but it’s the only chance now that she’ll ever have to be president, since she’s not going to get the nomination this time around. And if Obama wins, she wouldn’t be able to run until 2016, when she’ll be 68 and Obama’s VP (which isn’t likely to be her) will have a leg up for the nomination.
Between 2012 or never, Hillary’s picking 2012, the party and the country be damned.
Conservatively Liberal
And we will be waiting for her if that is the case.
El Doh
Excellent diary from GOS about how it was almost entirely Clinton people who voted to strip FL and MI of all their delegates last August.
I find this a particularly interesting angle, because Clinton supporters are the ones who blame the DNC for the current chaotic situation, rather than the “Sun Goddess.”
Conservatively Liberal
I read that diary, and it is damning. I bet they all thought that once Hillary had the lead, she would be their savior by kindly bringing them in from the cold and include them in the party for the sake of unity. This allowed her to pander to the first primary races and still be able to eat her cake later on.
They had to create a Plan B once they realized that things were not going according to Plan A.
But the important thing to note is that her people voted to ‘disenfranchise’ FL and they did it unanimously, except for one Obama supporter from Florida who voted ‘no’.
But Hillary supporters have excuses to cover for her, so the facts are just an ‘inconvenient truth’.
NR
That’s all well and good, but it doesn’t help us through the next four years of McCain’s disastrous foreign and economic policies.
And the Clintons will likely have the Democratic machine behind them even more firmly in 2012. Their first move after the election will be to oust Dean as DNC chair and replace him with Harold Ford or some other Clinton loyalist; they’ll have a good chance of succeeding with all their entrenched party support and an electoral disaster just behind us (which the party chair always catches some of the blame for, regardless of who or what was actually at fault).
Conservatively Liberal
I was a Democrat until ‘92, when I became an independent, same with my wife. We registered as Democrats last month so we could vote for Obama in the Oregon primary. If Obama loses, we quit the party and write in Obama, then sit back and watch the fireworks.
If Hillary runs in 2012, and Obama loses this year, you can bet that there are going to be plenty of people pissed at her. Plus, we can always count on the media to fan the flames for us since they love internal Democratic party brawling.
You can believe your scenario, and I will believe mine. All we can do is sit back and watch it unfold since we have little to no say in the matters anyway.
Chuck Butcher
Not going to happen. The Chair is elected by the State Parties and they’re pretty “Dean infected” now. It might be a more narrow thing, but he wasn’t the Clinton candidate to begin with. Terry McAuliff is their guy, remember? If Hillary screws this up she’s dead, the Senate alone will see to that.
bernarda
So now we are supposed to accept Rethuglican opinion as a credible criticism of Clinton. I thought I had heard everything. Here is a Monty Python sketch from “The Holy Grail” on witches.
The crowd in it reminds me strongly of Obama supporters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU
blicamms
Any idiot who votes McCain instead of the Democratic candidate for any reason that begins or ends with “the Clintons are worse than [fill in the blank] Republican/Libertarian/Green Party/Whoevever” is a complete and total MORON who,honestly, deserves to clean up the vomit, shit, and other bodily fluids emanating from the prisoners kept by this REPUBLICAN administration in Guantanomo Bay and all the other black sites.
Your freakin’ vote has a MAJOR impact on the lives of individuals out there people! How dare you vote in another torturer just because you’re pissed off that Clinton didn’t do this or that???
Anyone who does that is just as bad as those idiot Nader-voters in 2000…remind me again, Naderites, how similar Gore was to Bush and how his election would lead to the same results the next four years?
Conservatively Liberal
I don’t need a sketch by a comedy troupe to show what I think Clinton and her supporters are acting like.
This says it all.
If you want the full effect, first turn yours speakers up to full blast and then run it in an endless loop for a few months.
jake
This is a joke, right? Please say this is a joke.
I admit the idea of committing random acts of violence against the citizens of Florida did cross my mind in ‘00. However, I don’t recall any actual slaughter taking place in that state then or now so comparing Florida to Zimbabwe is the sort of disgusting hysterical bullshit that I’ve come to expect from people who’ve fucked this country up enough.
Where’s the guy with the god damned hook?
Conservatively Liberal
I am happy to say that our county in Oregon (Curry) went for Obama 52% to 48% for Clinton, and that is no small feat. Our county is loaded with retirees, rural people and small conservative towns with small businesses and blue collar workers who are mostly white, the kind of demographics that are supposed to favor Clinton.
Kinda shoots a hole in the KY/WV ‘electability with white folks meme’.
Dreggas
Here’s a fun quote:
Bill Clinton on the race card:
Thomas
I just re-ran the Pennsylvania primary in my office—Obama won, 7 votes to none. If the DNC refuses to seat all PA delegates for Obama, it’s nothing short of Auschwitz!
I know this doesn’t conform to Party rules, but since when has that mattered?
Tax Analyst
We are moving to a new platform at the end of July with a site re-design. It will just have to suck until then.
I’ll throw some money in the tip jar. It’s the least I can do.
That’s not a bad idea for a Fuckhead. If I toss in a little of my money maybe it will get together with your money and somehow reproduce.
And if not, well, at least two modest amounts will have been tendered.
There are worse things to spend it on, after all, and having a reasonably sane place to vent and compare notes and perceptions has probably saved many of us from paying the hourly toll to a shrink.
Not that I could ever possibly need help in that regard. My ability to cope with bullshit might possibly match Gandhi’s – if he weren’t dead – and my thought processes and logic are as sound as the dollar.
OK, so now I’ll just STFU and get out my credit card.
DAMN! This is going to be on my next billing statement…but if I put it off I’ll probably forget to do it.
TenguPhule
Being fought off by the woman screaming “I can Fly! I can Fly! I can Fly Damn you Reality!”
The Populist
She will start saying the following in the next few weeks:
After the last primaries:
“If I do not get this nomination, it will result in another lost election for our party. Senator Obama just can’t win it.”
Heading up to the convention:
“If I don’t get the nomination, I may consider running as an independent. I owe it to my supporters who have stuck by me and given me their time and energy. Senator Obama will not win the major states in the general election the way I can.”
I will also call my shot here by saying that Obama may actually consider Chuck Hagel as a VP. It’s interesting how involved Hagel has been with Obama. For Obama, this could be the ultimate in shutting up the GOP when they question his talk of uniting people.
binzinerator
Got news for you, dearheart, everyone who lives in the real world is laughing at Professional Victim Hillary.
I’m laughing, too, at what an ass you’ve made of yourself within the space of a single thread.
Who’s got the frownsies, spittlefleck? And if you’re not here to defend her, why are you defending her? Hint: Did you notice how you contradicted yourself in just one sentence? Now that was funny!
And that was even more funny!
I not particularly concerned if people here don’t want to play with me. I do however hope people here want to keep playing with you. I enjoy a good laugh.