Under any other administration I’d call this an innocuous historical footnote; in the current context, my “benefit of the doubt” reserves are pretty well depleted. https://t.co/BHC5LRECbD
— Julian Sanchez (@normative) February 12, 2018
.
We’re gonna have to turn Snopes.com into a public utility, at this rate:
On 12 February 2018, Attorney General Jeff Sessions delivered a speech to the National Sheriff’s Association at their winter meeting, praising state and local law enforcement while advocating for reduced federal interference in their work. In remarks that diverged from the speech as presented on the Justice Department website, Sessions closed by invoking the “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement”…
The prepared remarks from which Sessions strayed included an omitted reference to tribal law enforcement, and they did not mention the purported Anglo-American heritage of the Sheriff’s office:
I want to close by reiterating my deep appreciation and profound thanks to all the women and men of law enforcement — federal, state, local, and tribal. I want to thank every sheriff in America.
Since our founding, the independently elected Sheriff has been seen as the people’s protector, who keeps law enforcement close to and amenable to the people. The Sheriff is a critical part of our legal heritage.
Critics have suggested that Session’s use of “Anglo-American” implies that law enforcement is inherently the purview of individuals of white European Christian decent — a perception helped along by the speech’s primary focus on the merits of removing so-called “illegal immigrants” to curb violent crime…
Sessions could have avoided a lot of trouble this morning by either:
— Saying “common law” instead of “Anglo-American”
— Not having a long record in public life as a racist
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) February 12, 2018
Translation: American law enforcement is derived from slave patrols and predicated on the furtherance of White male supremacy and apartheid, and the South is rising again thanks to today’s @GOP. https://t.co/kvW9Vecdfe
— Propane Jane™ (@docrocktex26) February 12, 2018
Confederate Attorney General Bilbo Biggot is just warming up the crowd before he finally says the 14 words. https://t.co/ZHUFihTEeq
— Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) February 12, 2018
Baud
Anglo bobbies don’t carry guns. Just saying.
danielx
Got the calendar….
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
are you fucking kidding me
NotMax
Lincoln’s birthday.
Coincidence? Not on your tintype.
JPL
@Baud: Where’s Robin Hood?
Mnemosyne
I knew there was a reason I spent the weekend reading romance novels and hanging out with friends rather than keeping up with the assholes.
Jiminy Christmas.
Baud
@JPL: Kevin Costner killed him.
Mary G
This is gonna leave a mark:
Mike J
ETA: Damn Mary G and her faster typing/cutting pasting fingers!
dexwood
I’m surprised he included tribal law enforcement officers such as my wife’s Pueblo Indian relatives who are definitely not “Anglo-Americans”. Must have been a mistake. Sorry to comment and run, responsibilities call.
Baud
@Mary G:
Ouch.
And good for them.
Major Major Major Major
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): literal fascism!
SFAW
“The 14 words”??? And those words are?
Yet another Internet tradition of which I am un-blissfully unaware.
Amaranthine RBG
It’s even dumber when you factor in the DOJ’s official justification:
Regardless of their origins, today Sheriffs are not a feature of “common law” or Anglo American law or whatever. Louisiana – which traces its legal history back through the Napoleonic Code instead of the English Common Law – has sheriffs.
Sheriff’s are bound by the Constitution (not a feature of the Common law) and legislatively enacted laws and statutes (also not a feature of the common law.)
Finally, the most commonly understood meaning of common law is precedent established by court decisions as opposed to statutory enactment. Sheriffs have jack shit to do with interpreting, shaping, or playing any role in the common law, other than, maybe, arresting people who violate it. But almost all laws are now by statute so I can’t even think of an instance where a sheriff would enforce the “common law” as opposed to a statute.
This is just dumb on so many levels. Not surprising, of course.
SFAW
@dexwood:
I think the poorly-written sentence in the article was saying that the tribal law comment was part of the speech as written, but the Malevolent KKKeebler Elf left it out.
Major Major Major Major
Work and writing both went really well today, so I’m feeling pretty good. And while somebody left a mean comment about today’s webcomic update on Reddit, he (I assume he) deleted it after I pointed out that it probably didn’t make sense to him because it’s a serial and there were several dozen strips preceding it. And I broke 100 subscribers last week without noticing apparently, yipee!
@SFAW: it’s some alt right Blood and soil Nazi meme shit
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Sounds like everything is coming up Milhouse.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: I can’t believe I got somebody who was being mean on the internet to go away!
Citizen Alan
@SFAW:
14 Words
SFAW
@Major Major Major Major:
@Citizen Alan:
@Steeplejack:
Got it, thanks.
ETA: And I have to apologize for my laziness. I did not think a phrase as (seemingly) innocuous as those would yield worthwhile Google hits. Obviously I was worng.
Amaranthine RBG
@SFAW:
Segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever?
Hmm…. only 6 words.
Steeplejack
@SFAW:
“We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.”
PPCLI
It isn’t just the “Anglo-American” that’s a problem, if I understand these things correctly. It’s also the reference to “Sheriffs”, a status that is worshipped by Bundy-clan type wackos who claim that all law enforcement above the Sheriff’s level is illegitimate. Or something like that. It’s hard to figure out exactly what is the precise flavour of lunacy they believe.
Steeplejack
@SFAW:
That was the interpretation I had: in the speech as written, omitted as delivered.
Adam L Silverman
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): There are a pair of these on either side of the Speaker’s podium in the House of Representatives.
https://gdb.voanews.com/76308295-950C-4E21-A6E9-C1242A1762E4_cx0_cy8_cw0_w1023_r1_s.jpg
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Cole should hire you to police this place.
Adam L Silverman
@Mary G: @Mike J: Here you go:
mai naem mobile
Jeffy Sessions, Sheriff of Nuttingham who steals from the poor to give to the rich.
Adam L Silverman
@SFAW: https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/14-words
Mary G
@Mike J: I never beat anyone with my arthritic hand with the two torn tendons! You made my day!
TenguPhule
@SFAW:
Yes, ewe were.
TenguPhule
@mai naem mobile:
Wrong one, that’s Manchin.
Sessions is the one trying to kill or imprison the colored folk.
Adam L Silverman
He may have gotten confused and thought he was speaking at Richard Mack’s Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association.
This was clearly a call out to the constitutional sheriff and posse comitatus fetishists that like to play footsie with the extreme right folks.
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
And those are some serious nutballs. As in backing Trump to the bitter end crazy.
Mary G
There is a reason that the Sheriff of Nottingham is the bad guy in Robin Hood, the Sharif in “Rock the Casbah” same, and that Bob Marley wanted to make it clear that though he did shoot the Sheriff, the deputy’s death is a bum rap.
Matt McIrvin
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): The fasces shows up in a lot of old American government iconography predating fascism as we know it. That said, this organization seems to have been founded in 1940, so, uhhhh…
Niles
Even Obama has used the term “Anglo-American” in referring to our legal heritage.
TenguPhule
@Niles:
Under any other administration I’d call this an innocuous historical footnote; in the current context, my “benefit of the doubt” reserves are pretty well depleted.
Because we know what and who you are, Niles.
Uncle Ebeneezer
Propane Jane is a damn National Treasure. And one of my go-to rebuttals for everyone who whines about how Twitter is so useless.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: Yep.
rikyrah
He is the muthaphuckin’ KKKeebler Elf
Frankensteinbeck
On the ‘common law’ part, one of the white supremacist creeds is that all of the good parts of modern law, everything we think of as ‘justice’, like juries, is from English common law. It’s part of their belief that white Anglo-Saxons are the only race that moves civilization forward.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Niles: You do know that this is exactly how Dog Whistling works, right? Wording is chosen because it has just enough plausible deniability that someone like you will rally to it’s defense and provide cover.
Frankensteinbeck
@Uncle Ebeneezer:
Do not feed the troll.
gkoutnik
Sorry to get meta, but is this in any way related to the probably origins of the 2nd Amendment: an assurance to the South that they could keep their armed militias so they could continue to protect themselves from slave uprisings? Anglo-American, indeed.
Mnemosyne
@Niles:
The quote is not “legal heritage.” It’s “law enforcement.”
Bring us a quote from Obama talking about the “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.” We’ll wait here while you locate that.
efgoldman
@JPL:
He’s being deported. We’ll have none of that “rob from the rich” bullshit ’round heyah.
Patricia Kayden
@Mary G: Smart parents. They must be so disappointed in him.
Mnemosyne
@Niles:
A lawyer who doesn’t understand the difference between our legal heritage and law enforcement?
You must be one crappy lawyer. Have you been disbarred yet for conflating police officers and judges?
Ohio Mom
@Mary G: Those poor parents, they must feel they have failed. I would.
efgoldman
@Amaranthine RBG:
How that fucking Evil Leprechaun sumbitch hasn’t been disbarred….
Amaranthine RBG
@Niles:
Not in reference to sheriffs, he didn’t.
Amir Khalid
@Patricia Kayden:
I read the story. His parents raised him as a Democrat, but his military service in Iraq made him a Republican; he was angered by Democrats’ failure to support the war.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Amir Khalid: in 2007– that’s some dedication to a lost cause.
Also he “chose to become a Christian”, sounds like at around the same time. Sounds like a quarter-life identity crisis
Major Major Major Major
Maybe somebody can put up a new thread, everything here is about pie.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Something for which many republicans are known ?
Gravenstone
Way o/t and much more uplifting. Robert Plant started a brief US tour last week. I just saw a couple videos from it (hello ubiquitous recording devices), and damn but he sounds good. Seriously debating grabbing tickets to the Chicago or Minneapolis shows next week.
zhena gogolia
I think Frasier’s brother should go back to Seattle.
Niles
@Mnemosyne:
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
Speaking of which (coming at this from a tangent….)
I had too much time on my hands, computerless over the weekend, so I binged lawnorder reruns.
They rebroadcast an early episode, maybe fifth season, in which the bad guys were an East coast version of the Bundy gang.
At the (inevitable) arraignment scene. the head wacko started bleating about the gold fringe on the courtroom flag.
Ahead of their time
Major Major Major Major
@zhena gogolia: he has a funeral to plan after all ?
Adam L Silverman
@gkoutnik: The modern constitutional sheriff and extreme, and quite unorthodox, understanding of the county sheriff and his or her role is actually partially rooted in one of the extreme strains within the Anti-Federalist movement at the 2nd founding in the 1790s. I refer to it as radical localism. I wrote about it here:
https://balloon-juice.com/2017/06/14/some-thoughts-on-todays-shootings/
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: His law license is in Alabama. Nuff said.
Steeplejack
Where is Corner Stone? I need to take a consult on a little bit of MSNBC Kremlinology. To wit, Olivia Nuzzi (Washington correspondent for New York magazine) resurfaced just now on Chris Hayes’s show. She was a regular guest on a lot of the MSNBC shows until October, when there was a little kerfuffle about her being a little too chummy with Breitbart creature and alt-right performance artist Milo Yiannopoulos. This is the first time I’ve seen her since then. I wonder what happened to rehabilitate her.
germy
raven
@Amir Khalid: Those pesky ROE didn’t let the kill every fuckng thing that moved. Most but not everything.
germy
@Steeplejack: I don’t trust her.
efgoldman
@germy: It was, but not in the way KKKeebler Leprechaun assumes.
There was the small matter of secession.
And the other small matter of attacking the Union
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: I remember that episode. Caught them all at a machine shop printing neo-NAZI flyers on mimeograph machines if I’m remembering correctly.
They did a pretty good job of showing just how annoyingly pedantic these folks are when dealing with actual, legal authorities. I have friends, and some former students, who are cops. They always say the same thing about knowing when they get calls for certain addresses or certain license plates came over the radio that they needed to call the sheriff’s department. Because the folks involved only recognize the authority of the sheriff. In a few places I’ve lived and taught, where the sheriff was only responsible for the jail and security at county facilities, it is a bit of a stretch for that department.
Adam L Silverman
@Steeplejack: FEMA reeducation camp in an abandoned Wal-Mart in Texas. Originally set up as part of jade helm. Never forget!
Gravenstone
@Niles: Thought you were leaving, Felecia? Bye!
Adam L Silverman
@germy: He’s more honest than Gen Kelly.
laura
@Gravenstone: Get. Those. Tickets !!!11!!!
He toured with Allison Krauss a few years back and just tore it up. Get on it.
raven
@Steeplejack: She’s been on a lot for the last few weeks.
B.B.A.
@Adam L Silverman: Connecticut has abolished sheriffs outright. If they move there they can do whatever they want.
raven
@laura: And John Paul Jones has worked with Gillian Welch and David Rawlings quite a bit. I got tickets for Jorma in a couple of week!
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
Different ones. This is the one started with the wackos robbing an armored car and killing a guard.
BTW, one of the cable nets started last week right from the beginning (1990). I was startled that every bartender in every bar scene lit up a cigarette. My daughter (b. 1981) even more surprised – no smoking in bars or restaurants, really, in her memory, in MA
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Was Briscoe in this one?
efgoldman
@B.B.A.:
Their whole function in MA is to maintain the county jails. Oh, and patronage – always patronage.
Adam L Silverman
@B.B.A.: Might be a good way to get all these folks in one place then wall them in.
Aleta
Sessions is just too too ugly inside.
I feel like this antidote.
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2018/02/adam-rippon-gay-olympic-athletes
guachi
@Mary G: Despite similarities in pronunciation, the words sheriff and sharif are not related in any way whatsoever.
As mentioned above, the word sheriff is derived entirely from Old English (unusually, considering how many government words are Norman or French) and sharif is derived from the verb sharafa – grace or honor (so sharif basically means honorable). Though mushrif is a word with similar in meaning to sheriff and is also derived from the same root as sharif. It basically means overseer.
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
Yup. One of his first(*). Logan was still his partner. Also appears that it was Van Buren’s first season
(*)Even though I had the original (off) Broadway cast album decades ago, I still can’t believe he was the kid who sang “Try to Remember” in The Fantasticks
encephalopath
The LGM people had a good go at the remarks this morning. Apparently there is some essay that all the sheriff offices are very fond of that tries to trace their history to English common law and Germanic this and that. It all sounds very Aryan to me. We can all just ignore the slave patrols and the Pinkertons as the origins of law enforcement in the US.
See this example from Oklahoma: http://creekcountysheriff.com/page.php?id=8
I can’t find a citation on any of the LEO websites for where this text originated, but Sessions appears to be pandering to his audience with the language he used in his speech.
schrodingers_cat
I want to wish everyone well till we meet again. Adieu.
Steeplejack
@raven:
Which shows? I typically watch only the evening block.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: They were bitching about the gold fringe on the flag in court?
B.B.A.
@Mary G: On the other hand, Blazing Saddles.
laura
@raven: The spouse is all about Jorma, but hates crowds, so I have gotten to see Hot Tuna electric the last 2 Hardly, Strictly Bluegrasses, and usually, Dave Rawlins Machine or GW plays.
Have a swell Jorma -I was secretly sad that when you were in Pasadena, that your brother’s band didn’t open for Todd Rundgren who played within days of your Rose Bowl. That was a show!
efgoldman
Time to eat brownies
No, not the Alice B Toklas recipe
TS
Never, have I heard common law referred to as anglo american law – for starters – common law is of UK origin, NEVER called anglo law and NEVER with american added – The UK has no constitution – their history of legalese – common law – determines all legal issues that aren’t included in legislation
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
Affirmative. It was just a passing moment which helped establish what assholes they were
SFAW
@TenguPhule:
I’m a little disappointed. I would think the appropriate response would have been:
“Yes, your wrong.”
raven
@laura: Jorma is playing a really small joint here, maybe 200 people tops. HI band actually played “The Rose” in Pasadena two days after we left. He gave me a really great sweatshirt from there.
raven
@Steeplejack: Those are the shows I’ve seen her on. She’s pretty striking so it’s easy to notice.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: I remember that episode.
Major Major Major Major
@efgoldman: but why not?
Mnemosyne
@Niles:
Oh, look, an unrelated Wikipedia article rather than your promised quote of President Obama referring to our “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.”
How quaint.
SFAW
@Major Major Major Major:
Because he remembers “The Trouble With Tribbles”?
WaterGirl
@Mnemosyne:
Are we allowed to say that now? I thought only Merry Christmas had been authorized.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: Conservative gay man running as a Republican. I will never understand that.
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: $$$$$$$$$
efgoldman
@SFAW:
I do! My granddaughter got introduced to it in the last month or so. Amused her a great deal
She’s also been introduced to Dark Vader and Ham Solo
SFAW
@WaterGirl:
Mnem was saying it in Norwegian or some such. (“Yumpin’ yiminy!!!”)
Gin & Tonic
@schrodingers_cat: Sorry to see you go.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: Pics or it didn’t happen!
dmsilev
@WaterGirl: I believe ‘Jiminy Holidays’ is allowed.
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: you want me to post… pictures of gay republicans having money?
ETA I see you responded to a different comment!
WaterGirl
@Steeplejack: Hey that’s different than the 14 words I found at one of the links above.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: @Gin & Tonic: likewise, best wishes s_c.
SFAW
@efgoldman:
I don’t know if you saw the Star Trek reboot with Cumberbatch, but a tribble had a key part near the end.
And, apropos of nothing in particular: in the first one of the reboot series, when all the cadets are getting assigned to starships, I coulda swore I heard the name “Vader” called out.
efgoldman
@WaterGirl:
Does the Log Cabin society still exist? I would have thought, between Sanctus Ronaldus’ response to AIDS, and Hair Newetnik’s speakership, they’d have been read out of the party a long time ago.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne:
You’ll take any opportunity to mention a Disney character, won’t you? //
NotMax
@dmsilev
Merry Crickets!
Villago Delenda Est
Propane Jane nailed it on the proverbial head.
Also, too, 2nd Amendment fetishism. The NRA’s loud silence in the wake of the murder of Philando Castile, about HIS right to keep and bear arms, is damning.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Gin & Tonic: @schrodingers_cat: Like G&T, I am saddened; I will miss you horribly.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Villago Delenda Est: and phony libertarians
Villago Delenda Est
@efgoldman: When you think about it, their love of their money seems to trump the love of their own lives. Which makes them GOP naturals.
SFAW
@Major Major Major Major:
Is her departure related to something specific? Or did she just get fed up? (I’m a day late and a dollar short, as usual.)
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@WaterGirl: Oh hell, I said Happy Christmas last year (as my British grandfather did when I was a tot).
Major Major Major Major
@efgoldman: I mean Peter Thiel spoke at the RNC.
WaterGirl
@schrodingers_cat: I can’t tell for sure whether you are just saying good night or if you are upset about something. Hoping it’s the former.
@Aleta: I read that from your link in an earlier thread today. A touching and well-written story. thanks again for the link.
Major Major Major Major
@SFAW: no idea, i’d guess something to do with the DACA thread, but obviously she can speak for herself.
efgoldman
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:
What’d I miss? Someone drive an old, reliable regular away? Shit.
WaterGirl
@efgoldman: I hope you brought enough brownies for everyone. Surely you’re teaching the 4-year-old that little rule? Best to lead by example. :-) She’s also old enough for one of my mom’s cardinal rules: If you’re the one that cuts the cake (or whatever), the other person gets the choice of which one they take.
Jay
@Niles:
Being able to hear “dogwhistling” means:
A) You are a racist,
B) You’ve been paying attention as far back as the Southern Strategy,
Using “dogwhistles” on the otherhand makes you just another Nazi.
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
Be well, take care. I hope you return, and soon.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: Now that you mention it, I’m not sure which is more of a rarity – a mean person on the internet that goes away or a gay republican who does not have money…
NotMax
@schrodingers_cat
‘Sari’ to read that, if it means what it seems to.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@SFAW:@NotMax: Let’s all hope it’s a brief break from online communities.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
In the latter case can we say they have extra deplorable income?
dmsilev
@schrodingers_cat: Sorry to hear that. Be well, and hopefully come back soon.
WaterGirl
@efgoldman: Damn you for making me google!
Jan 18, 2018 – President Trump congratulated the Log Cabin Republicans on their 40th anniversary in a letter this week. (SAD.)
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: mean person going away. Completely contrary to human nature.
WaterGirl
I am appreciating all the fun and clever variations in response to the Jiminy Christmas question. I would reply to all of you but FYWP would punish me horribly for having more than 3 links.
gene108
@Ohio Mom:
Seems like their kid had a moment that he reacted to what he perceived liberals were doing wrong (calling Bush,Jr’s invasion of Iraq, in 2007, a failure, after he served their) and jumped to the otherside.
He may have another come to Jesus moment, and go back to being a Democrat…who knows…
Or he’ll go all in – despite his upbringing, like Stephen Miller – and commit to the dark side, as his pathway to power.
Even if his candidacy fails, wingnut welfare will take good care of him, so they can have someone to trot out, who escaped the Liberal Plantation. And that will create an incentive to ignore things that might be bothering him deep down, even if he thought he might want to change.
Major Major Major Major
In case anybody was worried the news in general wasn’t enough like the sort of thing you see in the background at the beginning of the movie…
Just got a CNN news alert that says “eye worm leads to unique discovery.”
Johnnybuck
@schrodingers_cat: Say it aint so. A lot of people here respect your perspective. I’m mostly a lurker but I appreciate your commenting, and I hate to see you leave the field,
West of the Rockies (been a while)
This toxic, malevolent, racist/misogynistic/homophobic administration cannot collapse in infamy and disgrace soon enough.
Go Team Mueller!
Go Team Blue 2018!
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
And to think people complain about having an earworm.
;)
Anne Laurie
@WaterGirl:
Look at Roy Cohn — or Peter Thiel.
There’s a kind of Rich White Male who honestly believes (and sometimes even articulates) that his money outranks his gayness. As long as he’s properly “conservative” and doesn’t waste energy sympathizing with “those” gays… the limp-wristed, dark-complected, insufficiently-wealthy kind… *he* will be safe from the reeducation camps his dear companions keep “joking” about. And frequently it even works, for them individually! Just as long as they don’t get AIDS, or lose their fortune, or happen to be standing in the wrong place when “their party” decides a little public purge will be good politics…
Hell, you’d think folks who consider themselves Classists would remember the example of Socrates, and be more careful around would-be tyrants. One day you’re the toast of the agora; the next, you’re a death-deserving heretic who corrupts young men…
Mnemosyne
@gene108:
2007 is when it became obvious that Barack Obama was a rising star in the Democratic Party, and Hillary Clinton was widely thought to be a shoo-in as the Democratic nominee for president.
Just sayin’.
Jay
@WaterGirl:
Watergirl,
How’s your puppy doing?
WaterGirl
I went to a meet and greet for one of the 5 democratic candidates for IL-13 congressional district. The bad pizza and mediocre chicken wings were not surprising, but the candidate was. Not quite sure what to make of him. When he gave his little speech, everything he said was progressive, but when you see him and talk to him he gives off kind of a smarmy used car salesman, republican vibe. And I was appalled when he introduced his wife. If you’ve ever seen a little girl about 5 years old preening for her dad, turning from side to side showing off her new dress or new shoes, that was what his wife did.
At this point, anyone would be better than Rodney Davis, IL-13-Awful, so I will vote for this guy if that’s who wins the primary.
But here’s my question: is it wrong to judge him for coming off as glib and smarmy even if he’s saying the right things? I think the wife’s childish display and obvious submission was the part that turned me off the most. It’s like my ears say one thing but I am having trouble dismissing the other stuff.
MisterForkbeard
@schrodingers_cat: You’re going? I hope not for long.
Best of luck in the meantime.
WaterGirl
@Anne Laurie: You’re right. But anyone who thinks they hate THE OTHER GAY MEN, but not them, or that it’s okay that they hate all the other gay people, as long as they are personally treated okay… I think that person is a piece of shit.
Mnemosyne
@WaterGirl:
If he’s one of 5 candidates, hopefully he won’t win the primary. I think it’s a bad idea to ignore your instincts, though. John Edwards got pretty darn far despite his deep sleaziness because he said the right things.
WaterGirl
@Jay: Thanks for asking. 2 weeks until the surgery for his torn ACL, and he’s holding his own. Tomorrow the two 4-month old pups arrive for their 10-day visit, and I have no idea how I can possibly keep him quiet once they arrive. I’m sure I’ll figure it out!
I’ll be outnumbered, though. 24 paws vs. 2 hands. Pretty sure who’s gonna win this one.
I told SC that I would share photos once the extra pups are here, so she better come back for those! :-)
MisterForkbeard
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah. The title on that one kept me from reading it. Too weird.
Sm*t Cl*de
@SFAW:
Because he remembers “The Trouble With Tribbles”?
A local troupe stages a season of “Summer StarTrek” — their response to “Shakespeare in the Park” — re-enacting a different classic episode each year. This year it was “Trouble with Tribbles”.
They are not entirely straight-faced.
Jay
@WaterGirl:
Peanut butter Kongs
WaterGirl
@Mnemosyne: Thanks for the reminder that it’s never good to ignore instincts. Mine have served me pretty well over the years.
He gave his 5-year-old son the mic so he could tell a joke – and the kid did a pretty good job – but the kid felt like a prop to me, with the dad referencing his two sons about 10 times during his little speech.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: If the hair on the back of your neck is standing up or your bump of trouble has gone off, listen to them. It may turn out he’s just awkward and off putting in terms of personality, but a solid person. But it may be that your instincts telling you to create space and move to cover are correct.
Break
How’s your dog?
Steeplejack (phone)
@efgoldman:
Went low-profile as Log Closet Republicans.
Felanius Kootea
@schrodingers_cat: Just catching up on the immigration thread below (I’m almost always behind on threads and they’re pretty much dead by the time I write, so I hope you see this). I sincerely hope that your goodbye isn’t related to people’s responses to that issue. I find it frustrating as well that many juicers have no idea of the hoops that legal immigrants have to jump through, Republicans’ hostility to both legal and illegal immigration, especially for people of color, and the fact that this new Dreamer proposal is a trap in ways they don’t fully understand. As you pointed out, there are lasting effects from the last time Democrats signed on to Republican thinking on immigration in an effort to compromise. Many of the deportations of Green Card holders under the Trump administration (e.g., the Polish doctor brought to the US when he was 3 who was convicted of a crime as a teenager) we are lamenting today come from Bill Clinton’s 1996 bill, which expanded the categories of illegal immigrants and deportable offenses for legal immigrants, and no one, Democrat or Republican, bothered to fix that once it was written into law. On the Democratic side that is mostly because even when Dem lawmakers are sympathetic, they are not usually recent immigrants and without gaming out the actual impact on people’s lives, it is possible to sign on to something that has horrendous consequences for immigrant families well into the future.
My university has graduated doctors who are Dreamers. One of the things that we hope to do is get many of them into positions in Canada if there is no fix in sight for Dreamers. Canada is actually open to taking in accomplished Dreamers who are professionals and MDs definitely fall into that category. That fix doesn’t help everyone, of course. The current Republican proposal is mean-spirited and devious and will hurt Dreamers and non-Dreamers for years to come if the Democrats sign on.
WaterGirl
@Jay: Frozen! Of course, one of my dogs is allergic to peanut butter (and most things, easier to list what he isn’t allergic to) so treats around here are just dog food kibble and whipped cream. But maybe Tucker could get half-frozen whipped cream in a kong. Thanks for the idea.
Mike in NC
Watching a PBS program from earlier tonight on the militarization of our police, which no doubt will accelerate until Trump and Sessions.
Miss Bianca
@efgoldman: Only part of my life I ever had a serious smoking habit was when I was bar-tending back in the 80s. Because everyone around me was smoking, and I found that if I were smoking myself, it bothered me less.
Was shocked when I went back to the midwest several years back (St Louis) and discovered people smoking in bars/restaurants. Colorado had banished smoking from its public places several years prior to that.
Steeplejack (phone)
@WaterGirl:
Which link? What words? The only link I see is Citizen Alan’s, which goes to the same Wikipedia article.
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks for the reminder to trust my instincts.
Pup is okay, I bet you will have seen my comment at #155 before you see this.
Another Scott
@Gin & Tonic: Ditto. :-(
Cheers,
Scott.
Amir Khalid
@WaterGirl:
Something feels off about this candidate to you, so it’s entirely legitimate to learn more about him before you decide how to vote. For starters, I’d ask the organiser of the meet-&-greet and anyone else find who knows about him (to state the obvious).
Jay
@Felanius Kootea:
If you need any help getting Dreamers to Canada, ( political pressure, sponsorship, etc), let me know.
WaterGirl
@Steeplejack (phone): Third line of the wikipedia article linked by Citizen Alan. I had done a quick scan, ignoring all the blah blah blah, looking for the 14 words, and I missed the one you had quoted that was in the first line. :-)
Jay
@WaterGirl:
Good quality canned dog food, frozen.
WaterGirl
@Mike in NC: I like the way your sentence just trailed off; I was able to add “drop off the face of the earth”, which made me happy.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Apple butter?
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: I did see 155. Glad the dog is doing well. Speaking of which I need to go rub some doggie bellies in a few minutes or I’m going to be in real trouble.
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: Can you do anything for national security professionals with lab mixes who teach martial art and will have a Jewish mother in tow?
Asking for a friend.//
B.B.A.
News from South Africa: the ANC is calling on Jacob Zuma to resign the presidency. If he doesn’t step down now, parliament is likely to remove him in a couple of weeks.
WaterGirl
@NotMax: That might work! He is allergic to so many things, but apples and sugar aren’t on that very long list, so it could work.
Steeplejack (phone)
@WaterGirl:
Reading is fundamental!
That’s the first time I’ve seen the “white Aryan women” quote. It looks like an unsound Wikipedia edit to me. Trust me, when you’re down at the local klavern the 14 words you’ll get are the ones I quoted.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Good news for people who like bad news about bad people
Mike Turner is a gold-digging strumpet!
ETA: Turner is from Ohio. I wonder how all the retired machinists getting coffee down to the McDonald’s by the interstate feel about him trying to cash in on an eighteen month marriage.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Gives a whole new slant to your notices of exiting for belly rubs..
(double) //
WaterGirl
@Steeplejack (phone): Yeah, going to the klan hangout, that won’t be happening anytime soon. :-)
I think I did learn about the tattoo of “14” being a white supremacist on one of the cop shows. Must have fallen out of my ears while i slept. Speaking of sleeping, I am heading to bed. I’m thinking I need to cook a couple of meals before the pups arrive because I doubt I’ll have much time for cooking once the crazy starts.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
So I got my second jury summons in the last 2 years. I’ll have to start calling in to see if I’ll need to appear for about 2 weeks. I suspect I won’t have to appear like last time. Never even got called in.
frosty
@schrodingers_cat: Wait, what? You’re one of my favorite commenters. I hope this is temporary, but if not, best wishes to you.
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
I can ask around. ; )
NotMax
@Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito)
Oh no! The universe is now hopeless?
:)
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: How is he with blueberries? They’re very good for dogs. Mine like them frozen, which is easy to do because I freeze a lot of them as they go into my protein smoothies.
Brian Murphy
Sessions is undoubtedly a racist, but even a broken clock is non-racist twice a day. “Anglo-American law” is a commonly used term of art, not a dogwhistle. There is a distinct tradition of law shared by England and America, and using that term is an accurate reflection of that history.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: Nope, those are reserved for the lab mixes.
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: I will check the list! That would be easy to put in a kong-like thing to make him work at getting them out.
I am a blueberry girl myself.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@NotMax:
No, but that speech was a funi dubism anyway. (Not that those were always bad: “I do lots of sit-ups, push-ups, and I drink plenty of juice.” Vegeta to Cell when he asks how he became a super sayian).
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: You know how to reach me.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl:
I’ll update the file.
Brian Murphy
@TS:
Have you been to law school?
Maybe I heard the term “Anglo-American law” more because I went to school in Louisiana, so the distinction between French/civil law v. Anglo-American/common law was pretty important.
Also, it is of distinctly English as opposed to “UK” origin. The latter refers to the union of England and Scotland, and Scotland’s law is more civil than common.
Omnes Omnibus
@MisterForkbeard: FWIW, she is right on the immigration front.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brian Murphy: When I was in law school, the term we used was common law.
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
Yup, there’s lots of outsourcing these days, Private Companies, groups looking for researchers and advisors,
I’ll keep my eyes open and listen to my contacts.
MisterForkbeard
@Omnes Omnibus: She’s not wrong, but she’s also not necessarily righ in total. She’s right that the consequences for Dreamers and other immigrants are all really bad. We agree with her.
The thrust of the pushback I. the thread (from what I remember) was that she mischaracterized Betty’s position pretty badly and didn’t recognize that we don’t have a lot of power to fix it stop the bad stuff NOW, but we might in the future.
When it comes down to it, we’re all allies on this. So I hope SC comes back, as she has a lot of valuable insight even when I don’t entirely agree with her.
Brian Murphy
@Omnes Omnibus:
As I said earlier, I was exposed to more comparative law because I went to school in Louisiana, and the term “Anglo-American” was used interchangeably with the term “common law.” I imagine in other states there is not much need to dwell on the historic origins of law, but it is more important if you want to understand the weird hybrid of civil/common law operative in Louisiana.
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: Shoot me a test message. I’ll send you a CV.
Omnes Omnibus
@MisterForkbeard: I am saying that she is right that blowing up the system for the Dreamers is the wrong decision. Her method of argumentation is another thing – as is recognition and respect for her position as an immigrant and new citizen. She has a closer view of the process than many of us.
Mnemosyne
@Brian Murphy:
Except Sessions didn’t say “Anglo-American law.” He said, “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.”
IANAL, but I’m pretty sure that our system of laws and our law enforcement personnel are two completely different things.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brian Murphy: Then recognize your special place and don’t lecture everyone else about how common the term is.
BTW even when I have seen the term Anglo-American in this context, it has been as an adjective modifying the term “common law.”
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
Easier if I just text you openings, postings, contacts, corps.
I find CV’s and resume’s are rather limiting. Most people are much more, or less than that. I’ve read you for a long time and I get the “feeling” that you could do everything from teach at Royal Roads to run “Strategic Positioning” at BAE Canada.
When I see an opening, I’ll text you, and talk to my contacts.
Sadly, it’s all too often who you know, not what you know.
Brian Murphy
@Mnemosyne:
Sessions is a racist, but at this point you seem to be quibbling about details. Can one really dissect the distinctions between common law and common law institutions of “law enforcement” like the sheriff or the jury? Possibly, but it hardly seems a slam dunk. If the OP were a persuasive learned treatise on that distinction, I’d be knodding my head. But to people familiar with law (and especially comparative law), the OP fits the stereotype of the hyperventiating anti-racist liberal. Since I consider myself a reasonable anti-racist liberal (who despises Sessions in general as Attorney General), I thought I’d do a bit the police the excesses on my own side.
Brian Murphy
@Omnes Omnibus:
My suspicion is that the term was more common when Sessions went to law school, but is currently less prominent. Either way, Louisiana has enough problems (including lots of racism) without painting everyone using that term as a white supremicist.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brian Murphy: You are new and we often get hit by trolls. Trust levels get low. I am a lawyer so I will buy your LA explanation. Non-lawyers may not.
Brian Murphy
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thank you. I’ve been following BJ for 6 years, and have commented on occasion. However, this particular post struck a nerve with me because of my own experience going to law school in Louisiana, where the term “Anglo-American law” was used constantly. If one cannot disagree with one’s own allies, then we only fulfill Jonah’s Goldberg’s preposterous theory of “liberal fascism.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Brian Murphy: Keep commenting. You can build trust.
Mnemosyne
@Brian Murphy:
Details matter. Context matters. Sessions was not just making general remarks for a general audience. He was speaking to a national conference of sheriffs and told them in unplanned remarks that they are part of the “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.”
At the same time, he omitted a written line of the speech directed at American Indian tribal police.
You are exactly the kind of useful idiot the Republicans depend on to get their message across since you refuse to look at the full context of what Sessions said and did and focus solely on the part that seemed normal to you.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: This was not helpful. I hope you found it cathartic – because it did little otherwise.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
I found it pretty helpful. It put Murphy’s Law in his place.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Details and context matter. The problem is not that Sessions used the word “Anglo-American.” It’s the context and details of HOW and WHEN he used it that are the problem.
So, no, I didn’t find the hand-waving of “quibbling about details” to be either helpful or productive. At all.
Brian Murphy
@Mnemosyne:
Ommitting a line about tribal police seems appalling, given the federal government’s disrespect of tribal police in “Indian Country” (another term of art). See… it’s possible to say that a racist POS like Sessions was racist in one particular part of his speech without requiring the conclusion that everything he said was racist.
I don’t see the relevance of whether this term was planned or unplanned. You didn’t address the substance of my earlier post about the tenuous distinction between Anglo-American traditions of “law enforcement” and the “common law.” Speaking as someone with a passing familiarity with comparative law, I can definitely imagine them being intertwined. OTOH, I’m not dogmatic about the issue. If you think there’s an important distinction there, then argue your case.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: Okay. Kick him away. Well done you. I guess. The fact that his explanation actually is viable to someone who has been to law school doesn’t matter to you is totes cool.
I am going to bed. Shun who you want.
Mnemosyne
@Brian Murphy:
So you don’t find it curious — at all — that Sessions would remove a scripted line about tribal police and add an unscripted line about the “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.” Just a big co-inkydink that happened to occur in the same speech.
Again: you see no relevance to Sessions removing praise of American Indian tribal police and adding a phrase about “Anglo-American tradition of law enforcement” to the same speech. All just a coincidence, nothing to see here.
Again: context. Sessions was not speaking to lawyers. He was speaking to the American Sheriff’s Association. Do you really see no harm in telling sheriffs that they should regard themselves as equals to Anglo-American law itself?
Have we perhaps had some recent problems in the United States with street cops appointing themselves as judge, jury, and executioners of citizens accused of breaking the law that might make it a bad idea to encourage sheriffs to regard themselves as not just upholders of common law, but the same thing as common law?
eemom
What a delightful clusterfuck.
Here’s the deal, Brian Murphy — your explanation about Louisiana is fine, but the fact is that “Anglo-American law” is NOT a “commonly used term of art” in the other 49 states. Rather, as Omnes noted, the “commonly used term of art” is “common law.”
Also, Sessions is from Alabama, not Louisiana. So your “point” eludes me.
Mnemosyne
@Brian Murphy:
Here’s what Sessions was supposed to say, as provided to the press before the speech:
Here’s what he changed it to on the fly:
But I’m sure it was all a coincidence. Or an accident. He totally didn’t mean to do it.
Brian Murphy
@Mnemosyne:
The relevance of his omitting the reference to tribal police was that he was racist, and the relevance of his reference to Anglo-American law was that he was deploying an old school term for what is commonly called the “common law” today. Your question implies conspiratorial thinking… “if someone is a racist, then everything they say that can be plausibly construed as racist is necessarily racist.” However, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
In regards to his sheriff comment, he was getting at the fact that the chief law enforcement officer of a district is elected. As someone skeptical of election of law enforcement officers, DAs, and judges, I can see the downside. However, from a popular sovereignty perspective, it’s not absurd to argue that the popular election of such of such officials is a crucial part of our Anglo-American/common law heritage, alongside the jury system, due process, and other elements of the common law.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@Brian Murphy:
And sometimes it’s a big brown dick.
It’s a not a big leap to think that Sessions, whom you’ve acknowledged is a racist, said so knowing full well that it’s an obscure term of art that could be used as a dog whistle. I mean come on.
Brian Murphy
@eemom:
Perhaps I wasn’t being clear, but my impression is that “Anglo-American law” is a somewhat old school term because the current law school curriculum is more professionally (as opposed to historically) focused. I have zero doubts that Session was exposed to it when he went to law school. Unfortunately, current law students not going to Louisiana law schools are allowed to remain oblivious to legal history because there has been a shift to a “professional” curriculum. Sessions is a racist, but legal scholars should understand the heritage of the “common law” as it is rooted in English history, and complaining that Sessions used the term only paints you as a Know-nothing.
eemom
@Brian Murphy:
yep, you went to law school, all right.
Steeplejack
@Brian Murphy:
But why diverge from his prepared speech? That is at least part of the fishy smell here.
ETA: And, as others have pointed out, Sessions’s reference was not to “Anglo-American law” but to our “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.”
Gvg
@Brian Murphy: probably dead, but it’s a dog whistle not a cigar because he is talking about sherrif’s not all law enforcement. Because so many of the white supremist radicals are currently making a big deal about sherrif’s no responsible leader of any justice department would single them out for that specific praise. They could be praised in many genuine ways using different words. In many areas it’s not called a sherrif but has the same type of responsibility.
Now that I have written out this point, I think Session’s always meant to say this racist dog whistle and his staff who helped him write it knew it tho whoever added tribal may have hoped either to mitigate it or just help deny it.
A responsible AG would have said something nice about law enforcement, but nothing close to this.
The existence of the sovereign citizens and akin types makes this whole speech inflammatory. The guy is not just a racist, he is a bomb throwing frothing lunatic racist.
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: Tracking and sitting by. Thanks!
Mnemosyne
@Brian Murphy:
So why change the phrase from “legal heritage” to “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement”?
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
J R in WV
@Brian Murphy:
Sure the thread is dead, but want to add to the Anglo-American law/law enforcement issues.
Anglo-American common law is only the foundation of states’ law east of the Mississippi. In the area purchased from France by Jefferson, French Napoleonic is the foundation… remember parishes in Louisana? In the area stolen/purchased from Mexico, much of the common law is based upon Spanish law, which I learned about from a lawyer/engineer friend who worked for the Army Corp of Engineering out west long ago.
This is perhaps (I’s not really sure) more relevant to property rights, mineral rights, and mining law than to other parts of the law universe, as that’s what I was consulting him about specifically. We have a small camp in SE AZ that is in an area being minutely examined by Anglo-American Mining in hopes of them starting a hugely profitable mining operation in our front yard.
We suspect they hope molybdenum will be found in the deep underground. Core drilling this summer, have been flying sensors all around the last year or so. Out west you don’t own the underground parts of your property, ever. We do live just past an old silver mining ghost town, and they did find minerals in those mines that contain molybdenum, which is one of the most valuable metals you can mine this side of gold and platinum. Way better for the company than mere copper. Worse for everyone else.