The Congressional Budget Office has been an obstacle to Republicans bent on stripping access to healthcare from tens of millions of Americans. Every time Zombie Trumpcare rises from the grave and totters toward the finish line, the CBO score provides one of the stakes that brings the monster down, albeit temporarily. It would be so much easier to shovel money from working people to plutocrats if Republicans could substitute figures pulled out of a Koch Brother’s ass for CBO estimates. Via The Hill:
Rep. Morgan Griffith (R-Va.), a member of the conservative House Freedom Caucus, plans on offering an amendment to spending legislation this week that would cut the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office’s staff by 89 people.
The proposed cuts come after a series of CBO reports predicted that tens of millions of people would become uninsured under various Republican plans to repeal and replace ObamaCare.
Freedom Caucus Chairman Mark Meadows (R-N.C.) said Monday that, instead of relying on the CBO’s expertise to assess how much congressional bills would cost, the office should aggregate estimates produced by various think tanks like the Brookings Institution and the Heritage Foundation.
The Republican president and his minions tell bald-faced lies at such an unprecedented clip that statements that would have triggered months-long scandals in a normal presidency pass with barely a ripple. The GOP has its own propaganda network in Fox News (and lesser imps and demons) to lie to the American people about the dangers we face and make rational discussion of political or cultural issues with its brainwashed viewers impossible. And now Republicans want to drown the federal agency that provides budget and economic information to lawmakers. Makes sense.
rikyrah
This is who they are. Period.
But, we’re supposed to not play ‘ gotcha’ with these people.
Uh huh
Uh huh
TenguPhule
As always, feature, not a bug with these people.
TenguPhule
The stupid in that statement is over 9000.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Jesus Christ. Please make it stop.
What possible pretext for cutting the CBO could they like up that doesn’t come across as blatant fascism?
rikyrah
It’s impossible to capture fully the insanity of GOP repeal push right now, but @JeffYoung comes awfully close here https://t.co/5lffweRTfF
— Jonathan Cohn (@CitizenCohn) July 24, 2017
rikyrah
Former GOP senator: Resist the bullying. Don’t vote for a mystery health care bill. https://t.co/DrTDlJBPC9 via @usatoday #VoteNo
— AARP Advocates (@AARPadvocates) July 24, 2017
“There will be no do-overs on this. Take it from me: a no vote this week is the only one that will be defensible in the years to come.”
— AARP Advocates (@AARPadvocates) July 24, 2017
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@TenguPhule:
2008 called. It wants its meme back :p
rikyrah
The life you save could belong to your favorite writer, a family member, your BFF, you. Make the calls! #savetheACA #stopmcconnell
— Gwenda Bond (@Gwenda) July 24, 2017
Does calling Dem senators help at all?
— Kelly Knox (@kelly_knox) July 24, 2017
Yes! Commend them on staying strong!
— Gwenda Bond (@Gwenda) July 24, 2017
rikyrah
Antiquated voting machines & software must be upgraded now to counter cyber threats to elections @HoustonChron https://t.co/2WoluJKFxt
— Brennan Center (@BrennanCenter) July 24, 2017
Gravenstone
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Even better (more ironic, at least) – the current head of the CBO was put forth by Turtle. So his own guy is the one shivving him with inconvenient facts.
rikyrah
GOP congressman blames health care struggle on ‘repugnant’ Republican ‘female senators’ https://t.co/AtHM6cVhKn pic.twitter.com/MQ3sI2Mw5o
— ThinkProgress (@thinkprogress) July 24, 2017
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: I was about to comment on that exact bit you highlighted. Why have nonpartisan professionals do something when we could just aggregate a bunch of partisan hacks?
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Well, as the czar’s own daughter tweeted a few years ago, if you don’t like the truth, change it. Or at least fire the people who point out what the truth is.
Gravenstone
@Major Major Major Major: Okay, this
is sheer poetry.
/applause
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Everything old is new again. This time the male Palin seized control.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
Its not even Calvinball with a facade of respectability. Its full on Deathmatch Calvinball now.
Yarrow
Rexit alert!
TaMara (HFG)
They are insane, backed into a corner and flailing. That makes them dangerous.
And anyone who watches Faux News,want so be lied to, so there’s that.
I’m buried deep in a red state at the moment and let me tell you these people are miserable – it’s like they got everything they wanted for Christmas, only to find out it’s all junk, or toxic and probably going to kill them.
No one smiles, NO ONE is talking politics. It’s weird. And very noticeable – I was just here last fall and it’s very different this trip.
Yarrow
@TaMara (HFG): The question is how much damage they can do before they’re kicked out.
chris
@TaMara (HFG): What, the leopard kitty grew up and ripped their faces off? Quelle surprise
smintheus
These Russian connections just keep popping up, for some reason I can’t quite explain.
Yes, that Alfa Bank.
Major Major Major Major
@Gravenstone: don’t look at me, I didn’t do it.
TenguPhule
@TaMara (HFG):
Have a viable exit strategy ready.
And don’t be afraid to run some of them over if you have to in order to escape.
I wish I was joking.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Yarrow:
Make it so, Number One!
Jeffro
@TenguPhule: I know, right? Republicans would just ‘flood the zone’ with 1-man “think tanks”. Think 400 Heritage Foundations (399 of which are individual RWNJs sitting on their beds at home) averaged with 1 Brookings Institution.
(and the 399 would probably produce fake estimates twice as far off the mark so that when they’re averaged against even a bunch of “Brookings”, they’d still come out ahead)
It’s still mind-boggling to me that we’re having to fight for objective. reality. here. Boy that big-donor “Dark Money”…it’s almost like dark matter isn’t it? The way it pulls on and distorts everything around it?? Jesus.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@smintheus:
Trump: It’s called the Criminal Division, right? What’s the problem?
Yarrow
@TaMara (HFG): The most consistent comment coming from Trump voters is that they want him to Stop Tweeting. They’re fine with what he’s doing. They just don’t want him to be so public about it.
Weaselone
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
I don’t know. What reason did Gingrich use when they killed the Science and Technology equivalent in the 90s?
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
The Brennan Center has been screaming into the wind about voter suppression since at least 2000. I need to send them some money so they can keep up the good work.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@TaMara (HFG):
Anecdotal evidence, and all. Hopefully that translates into them staying home next election and forevermore
Betty Cracker
@TaMara (HFG): Fascinating! I’ll be at a family event in Trump country soon and encountering many Trump voters whom I am unable to avoid completely since we are relatives. I hope to find them similarly dispirited — and to add to their dyspepsia! :)
Yarrow
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Doubt they could replace him quickly.
Spanky
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: How many Criminal Divisions does Trump have? (He asked, teeing a fat one up.)
rikyrah
@Yarrow:
He was ALWAYS
The Secretary of Exxon.
He was going to be there to see the sanctions lifted, and then he was GONE.
He was NEVER there for anything other than the sanctions.
Yarrow
@rikyrah: Speaking of sanctions, what’s the latest on the sanctions bill passed by both the House and Senate. Did Trump say anything about it or sign it?
Mnemosyne
@TaMara (HFG):
I’m medium convinced that one of my cousins avoided the annual family reunion so she and her Trumpster husband wouldn’t have to talk to the rest of us. I couldn’t be there myself because of scheduling issues, but I’m pretty sure our other cousin would have raked her over the coals because he’s a lifelong Republican who begged her to vote for Hillary, and she refused.
Ohio Mom
Every time it’s been announced that the latest version of Trumpcare would leave X number of people without insurance and would cut Y from Medicaid, I’ve thought about the anonymous CBO staff.
The last few months for them must be like a constant finals week for a student who hasn’t opened a book all semester. Every few weeks they have to gather and crunch huge amounts of data in a very short time frame.
And then, they know that whatever they come up with is going to be discounted and/or ignored.
rikyrah
@smintheus:
Yeah.
ok.
Whatever.
The Dems better say PHUCK NO to this nominee.
Yutsano
@rikyrah: Thinking is fine. Wake me when Rexxon actually does.
Patricia Kayden
@TenguPhule: So get good old boy “think tanks” to rubberstamp pretty much every dang thing Republicans do. Yeah. That’s the ticket.
smintheus
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: This is the part of the story that I find most reassuring:
So Benczkowski is playing the Kushner game of dribbling things out slowly; he disclosed this bombshell only 6 days before his Senate hearing, which is tomorrow.
NotMax
The new(ish) Republican credo: Distrust and never verify.
Patricia Kayden
@smintheus: Of course. Don’t you know that you must have ties to Russia to get a job in Trump’s regime? This isn’t even surprising anymore.
Major Major Major Major
@Ohio Mom: Ooh, I just had a dark thought, how long until people start doxxing them?
Patricia Kayden
@Ohio Mom:
Discounted and ignored by Republicans. Not so much by Democrats and sensible people who give a dang about healthcare.
Patricia Kayden
@TaMara (HFG): That’s what is so puzzling about Republicans. They have full control in Washington, D.C. but they sure don’t look like they’re having any fun. Contrast that with Obama’s presidency where he and his supporters had loads of fun. Republicans have been on the defense since Trump’s election and things will only go downhill from here as the shoes continue to drop in regard to the Russian interference scandal. I would almost feel sorry for them except their bigots who voted for a bigot so there’s that.
Ithink
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Oh Son Goku, my man, fascist AKA The American version of the National Front is what the Republican Party us from the bloodstream out. Most of the center-right intellectuals, pundits & rank-and file voters with a conscience picked up on this & jumped the inevotable Titanic well over two years ago and won’t be welcome back anytime soon.
A better question now is will a timely investigative report by Mueller save our once-great Republic from bottom down authoritarianism and the kakistocracy-in-charge or will a more Shondra Rimes-esque plot twist occur in real time?☺
Yarrow
@Patricia Kayden: Trump will only hire people who are compromised by their ties to Russia. That way he has leverage over them.
smintheus
@Patricia Kayden: The odd thing is, though, that Betsy DeVos doesn’t appear to working for Russia at least as far as we know. Maybe Vlad has no use for the Education Dept.
rikyrah
@Yarrow:
NOTHING about him signing it.
Ohio Mom
@Patricia Kayden: Well, yes, it’s ammunition for us. I hope the CBO staff takes some satisfaction in that, because otherwise the whole thing is pretty much a snipe hunt.
germy
@smintheus: her brother had some meetings.
Steeplejack
Jesus Christ, am I the only one aware that El Presidente spoke live at the White House on health care?! I’m a little behind on my MSNBC feed, but he started at 3:38.
And, OMG, he put his foot in it in his very first sentence: “For the past seventeen years Obamacare has wreaked havoc on the lives of innocent, hard-working Americans.”
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden:
Because their idea of fun involves our pain and suffering.
They haven’t been having much luck on that front. So far. But they’re working at it.
Yarrow
I wonder if Cole saw this:
You have to click through to see the image. They spelled it West Virginina.
TenguPhule
@Steeplejack:
Bush? There was never a Bush. Only Obama. Always Obama.
/Will no one rid us of these insane Republicans?
TenguPhule
@smintheus:
That’s because she’s working for China.
Ohio Mom
@smintheus: Whatever DeVos will accomplish will indirectly help, as her goals are making the oligarchs even wealthier, and dumbing down the next generation. It’s a longer game.
Major Major Major Major
@Patricia Kayden: Trump, and a lot of Republicans too, thought that they could get everybody’s respect by getting power. Trump himself is new-money outer borough striver trash, who tries to get respect through domination, and it isn’t working, which is why he’s always so mad. They aren’t having fun because they aren’t getting the respect they think they deserve.
rikyrah
@Yutsano:
Well, Dolt45 can either veto the sanctions or 10 days not do anything, and it’s a done deal.
If the sanctions aren’t reversed, can’t see the Secretary of Exxon hanging on.
Steeplejack
Mayhew and the pundits in general are going to have a field day with this Trump speech. Pure, unadulterated vitriol, and he’s in “every word is a lie, including and and the” territory. Holy shnikeys.
Yutsano
@rikyrah: As with all things regarding this administration, it depends on who you ask. Sanders said he would, Mooch says he’s undecided, Dolt45 has said almost nothing, so who freaking knows? If he vetoes he’s as much admitting guilt.
Brachiator
@TaMara (HFG):
This might be a good sign, a sign of a return to sanity.
smintheus
@germy: Well I stand corrected, Vlad did want control of the Education Dept. too. I guess that means he’s got everything.
Yarrow
@Steeplejack:
I knew he was going to talk on healthcare because CNN had the camera on the empty podium. They were billing it as a speech with “Obamacare victims.” Uh huh. As soon as the first person came out to stand behind the podium I turned it off. I can’t watch Trump. He makes me so ill and I’m hanging by a thread anyway. Don’t need the stress.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
No, no its not.
Quiet before the storm.
Yarrow
@Brachiator: No, it’s not. It just means, as Major Major Major Major said, they’re angry they and Trump aren’t getting the respect they think they deserve. “No one’s working with him. No one’s letting him do his job.” He promised them better everything plus kicking out all those brown people. They haven’t gotten all of that yet and it’s in no way Trump’s fault. Or theirs.
Major Major Major Major
@Yarrow: Same reason I use a browser extension that replaces many pictures of him with kittens.
Ruckus
The truth won’t set you free, it just gets in the fucking way of looting.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: Commended mine today and pressed them to demand that Congress fix the ACA. It’s horrifying to think that tomorrow the Senate could support Trump Care despite knowing how many Americans will suffer and possibly die because of their actions. Such cold blooded bastards.
TenguPhule
@Yarrow: And they’re going to start looking for targets to take out that anger on.
Yarrow
@germy: @smintheus: And don’t forget their connections with the Mercers. Who are also connected to the Russians. Oligarchs gonna oligarch.
Patricia Kayden
@Ruckus: Wish I could upvote this comment.
lgerard
I see that 9iu11ani got Mike Allen and the New York Post to float a story that he is being considered as a replacement for Sessions
try again
Steeplejack
Off topic, but screw it. I need something to counteract that vile Trump speech I just sat through.
I got back a few hours ago from my brother-in-law’s citizenship ceremony, where he joined 451 other people from 79 countries in pledging their oath of allegiance to the United States:
A little more bracing than the basic Pledge of Allegiance that we “native citizens” can barely remember.
The auditorium—Oakton High School (“Go Cougars!”) in Vienna, VA—was packed with friends and family. And of course it was a tremendously diverse gathering—all ages, all races. I saw several hijabs and at least one full burqa (neither of which is unknown in my corner of NoVA) among the candidates. Also a Sikh gentleman. One of the USCIS “emcees” asked the candidates to stand (and remain standing) as their country’s name was read, with the audience clapping and cheering, after which they all took the oath together.
Then all of us, new citizens and audience, recited the pledge of allegiance and sang the national anthem. More clapping and cheering.
U.S. Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-VA—the fightin’ 11th!) gave a mercifully short but affecting speech, in which he mentioned, without it sounding like a humblebrag, that his grandmother came to America as a poor young woman (had her meager money stolen on the ship coming over) and worked doing laundry and sewing to support herself and bring over her mother and two brothers.
Then came a “Greetings, new citizens” video featuring Homeland Security Director John Kelly (WTF?) that was much less Big Brother-ish than I feared, and finally the low point of the event, a video montage of “new Americans” over a labored, Bleeding Gums Murphy version of “America the Beautiful” by a female voice who unfortunately was not Ray Charles.
Significant detail: no mention of Trump anywhere. Will have to check with the BIL to see if there was anything in his information packet.
Big party at Sighthound Hall tonight. Yee-haw!
TenguPhule
@Steeplejack: Passports as soon as possible. Useful for just about any eventuality.
Yarrow
@Patricia Kayden: It’s going to destroy me.
@TenguPhule: They’re just as likely to turn that anger on themselves. Opioid abuse, for example.
Patricia Kayden
@Major Major Major Major: Me too. It’s bad enough he’s all over my t.v. Don’t need to see him all over my computer too. Kittens are so soothing.
chris
@smintheus:
That remains to be seen. Her brother is Erik Prince.
Patricia Kayden
@Steeplejack: President Obama is still on the welcome letter for newly sworn in citizens which in my opinion is just perfect.
Yarrow
@Steeplejack: Congrats to your BIL! How does that oath to the US work for people who are dual citizens? A lot of people seem to retain their passports from their country of birth, or whichever country they’re coming from. Many people say they’re dual citizens.
Betty Cracker
@Steeplejack: Congrats to your BIL!
Major Major Major Major
@Steeplejack: Trump should have to give that oath.
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
The problem with undirected anger is that it tends to go everywhere.
And addicts can be the worst kind of violent crazy.
JPL
Last week McCain said he wanted a bipartisan approach. haha McCain will never disappoint.
Yarrow
@Major Major Major Major: I just look away. I’ve been known to close tabs immediately if he shows up on some page. I’ve also put my hand up to cover the TV and muted it as fast as i can. I can’t even watch comedy Trumps. The one exception being Alec Baldwin on SNL, but by the time they return I may not even be able to do that.
rikyrah
‘We Have To Get It Together’: GOP Panics Over Imploding Agenda
By CAMERON JOSEPH
Published JULY 24, 2017 6:00 AM
With Obamacare repeal teetering on collapse, tax reform looking like an even heavier lift and the Trump White House spinning further into chaos, Republicans are increasingly worried that they may squander unified control of government and fail to score any big legislative achievements.
“It’s upside down, what do you want me to say?” Rep. Walter Jones (R-NC) told TPM when asked how things were going within his party.
“It’s been some of the most chaotic six, seven months I’ve ever spent here. I’ve been here 20 years, with a Democratic president just sworn in, a Republican president just sworn in, and this has been somewhat of a chaotic circus,” Jones continued. “It’s going to be very difficult to get any major legislation through Congress this year, and I think next year there’ll be even less of a chance.”
The libertarian-leaning Jones, a frequent critic of his party’s leaders, is no bellwether. But even top Republicans close to leadership who rarely sound their frustrations publicly aren’t happy about how things are going, and worry that if they don’t get on the same page soon they might miss the window of opportunity to pass any major legislation before scandal politics and the 2018 midterms put a halt to any chances of lawmaking on controversial issues.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
I would also say, they really thought that liberals, people of color, and LGBTQ people would roll over submissively after they one, and they’re pissed that we didn’t.
Patricia Kayden
@Major Major Major Major:
His father was supposedly wealthy so it’s interesting that Trump would still be considered “new money”. He should be entrenched within the world of the rich and famous given his background, education and wealth. Not sure how someone who is so wealthy has remained so crass. He has no shame or self-control. And unlike normal people like President Obama, he cannot take any criticism without throwing a temper tantrum.
I cannot imagine the epic meltdown that he’s going to display once Mueller’s investigation is publicized. Can’t wait.
ruemara
@Steeplejack: Congrats to the BIL! I hope he and all his fellow new citizens have a long and fruitful life in America.
@Patricia Kayden: He is so coarse, so tasteless and gauche, I could be old money before he is. And his spawn. They were despised before and are fully despised by all but the worst of the rich subset. The best thing is, they know it and it hurts their feelings.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Yarrow:
I know this sounds horrible, but would the Mercers getting killed actually solve anything? They aren’t the only ones pumping dark money into this system, I know but maybe others would get scared the same could happen to them?
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Sadly no.
You’d need a lot more to have an effect.
Mountains of Skulls. (Or a small hill’s worth at least)
TenguPhule
@JPL:
And we’re supposed to feel sorry for him and his cancer?
No. Just no.
A Ghost to Most
@Steeplejack:
Congratulations to your fellow American BIL.
We’re outside Taos, NM. Went to the Taos Pueblo this morning, then drove the Enchanted Loop, with a bit of offroading. ‘Hearts and Bones’ is playing in my head.
Trump who?
Patricia Kayden
@Mnemosyne: Those resistance protests which occurred around the world the day after Trump’s inauguration sent a clear message that we were not rolling over. And unlike those Rethug politicians who got together on the day President Obama was inaugurated to vow to obstruct him, we have valid reasons to resist Trump’s agenda. The damage he is already doing to this country is incalculable.
Aleta
Fortunately we have Rep. Lee’s leadership to help us and inspire us:
Rep. Barbara LeeVerified account @RepBarbaraLee 41m41 minutes ago
.@SpeakerRyan killed my bipartisan amdt to repeal 2001 #AUMF & debate our wars. …So I’m going to offer it again in the Rules Cmte. #Persist
Yarrow
@JPL: That is freaking insane. McCain gets out of his sickbed after brain cancer surgery and flies across the country to take healthcare away from millions.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden:
Just because the Republic’s corpse is about to go up in flames doesn’t mean we should eagerly anticipate the explosion.
Or did you think Trump’s explosion was going to be harmless?
ruemara
Hunh. turns out I may just be a citizen, since my mother naturalized before I was 18. My parents. Absolutely discombobulated to an extreme.
Patricia Kayden
@smintheus: I would assume, however, that her brother Erik Prince has connections to Russia though — either directly or indirectly.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
“We’re not sorry about sending million of Americans to an early and painful death, we’re just worried that we’ll have to wait until after the next election to get it done.”
rikyrah
@Steeplejack:
sounds fabulous!
Yarrow
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Not, it wouldn’t. It would be used as an excuse to crack down on ordinary citizens.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden: He’s in bed with China.
Patricia Kayden
@TenguPhule: He has mini meltdowns every day and he’s dangerous and harmful. When Mueller brings him down, he can have one big one and then get the hell out of the White House and our lives. The sooner this happens, the better it is for all of us.
Jeffro
@Patricia Kayden: I hope those protest become an annual event
catclub
@TenguPhule:
Palin had been elected to high office. Unlike Trump. Palin’s primary drawback was she was not a hereditary (male) member of the aristocracy.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden:
Presumes that:
A) Mueller can bring him down
B) Trump doesn’t do something stupid and/or violent
C) Trump actually leaves the White House
All of those rely on facts not in evidence.
Yarrow
@ruemara: Wow. What are the rules on that?
Major Major Major Major
@Patricia Kayden: They’re still considered ‘new money’ because they’re assholes who have done nothing to ingratiate themselves to anybody. IMO ‘new money’ is more of an attitude than a chronological thing.
They aren’t wealthy; they’re merely extremely rich. Being wealthy takes class.
rikyrah
@Mnemosyne:
This cannot be said enough.
Not only do we NOT show deference to Dolt45..
but, we make sure:
1) to bring receipts all the time
2) inform them that their vote for Dolt45 displays THEIR lack of character, and they will be treated accordingly.
woodrowfan
@Steeplejack: make sure they are all registered to vote!
Patricia Kayden
@smintheus: The only Cabinet person I can think of who probably has zero connections to Russia is Ben Carson. I also don’t believe that he’s a Billionaire or has connections to Goldmans Sachs.
JPL
@Yarrow:It’s who he is. Flip flop John. Say one thing on TV and vote the party way. Republicans first and forever.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: you seem big on china today.
Patricia Kayden
@TenguPhule: Well, we’ll all see what happens then. Someone has to be able to bring down Trump. He’s not god (even though he worships himself on the regular).
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
Start looking? An asshole decided to try and shoot up a children’s theater performance at a Unitarian Church in 2008 to get back at “liberals and Democrats.” Fortunately, hero Greg McKendry stood in front of the gunman and took the shotgun blast to give others time to tackle and hold the murderer. The gunman got life without parole for killing McKendry and one other churchgoer.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@rikyrah: The House and Senate bills are different, there’s nothing for Trump to sign.
Steeplejack
@Yarrow:
I’ll have to check with my BIL. My no doubt outdated memory from way back when is that the U.S. government frowns on that, because we’re the best, damn it!
Oddly enough, my brother has dual citizenship. He was born in England when we were stationed there in the late ’50s. (Dad was an Air Force doctor). As an adult Bro’ Man applied for and got British citizenship. He had some convoluted explanation revolving around the premise that if he had citizenship and got accredited to practice medicine in Britain (he’s an ophthalmologist) he would automatically be good to go in any of the E.U. countries. Of course, with Brexit that’s presumably blown out of the water. But I think at bottom he’s always had a bucket-list desire to live in England for at least a few years, and citizenship would ease the path for that. And, before the changes in the Obama years, same-sex marriage was also an issue (could get married over there, not here—or at least the legal status here was murky).
Redshift
@Steeplejack: Someone I follow on Twitter posted about how a recently naturalized relative of theirs was pleased that his congratulatory letter was the one signed by Obama. So there are some advantages to these clowns being unwilling to bother with the routine business of governing!
chris
@rikyrah: They may be panicking over their precious legislation but the beat goes on behind the scenes. The gutting of department after department is terrifying because the most powerful country in the world is flying blind. But then I don’t recall any mention of a State Department in the Handmaid’s Tale.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
Consult a good immigration lawyer to find out for sure, but if true — whoo-hoo! ?
Walker
@Yarrow:
When my wife became a citizen, the INS official described the rule as follows.
The US cannot take away your citizenship in another country. Only that country has the authority to do that. (There is also Afroyim v. Rusk).
However, if you acquire citizenship in another country after having US citizenship, then the US has the authority to revoke your citizenship. So if you are collecting multiple citizenships, you must get US citizenship last.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: Eric Prince got several stories on him detailing the Chinese connections several months ago. I would have thought they’d be remembered.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Yarrow:
You are supposed to renounce your previous citizenship at an embassy or counselate.
Yarrow
@Steeplejack: I’d be interested to find out. My understanding is sort of the same as yours, but I remember several years ago talking to an American who also had Israeli citizenship and he told me he was allowed dual citizenship. I also know a couple of people who still have their passports from their home country but also have US passports, and those countries are not Israel. And a friend of mine is married to a guy from France and she went to the French consulate and got French citizenship. But she’s still an American. it’s confusing.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
Yeah. Just wait till they actually get organized enough to become a lynch mob.
patrickII
@Yarrow: with the sanctions bill now looking passable tillerson has little reason to stay and try to make a deal with his good friend vlad.
Yarrow
@Walker: Thanks for that info. Very interesting. Maybe that’s how I know so many dual citizens. But now I wonder about my American friend who got French citizenship. They live in the US.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden:
That’s what I’m worried about. Its difficult to anticipate people who have no moral compass and follow none of the rules of civilization.
Aleta
@JPL: They’re indifferent to the health and life of a loyal party member because destroying the health and lives of millions is the prize.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Yarrow:
I know. I wish there were easy solutions
MisterForkbeard
@Mnemosyne: This. I know several republicans who are two things:
1) Super pissed that liberals haven’t fallen on our swords crying and apologizing that we were wrong all along that the Trumpistas are great.
2) Pissed at liberals (and congressional republicans) because they didn’t magically get all the unrealistic crap that Donald promised them during the campaign. It’s OUR fault, you see, that Republicans have been giving them a snowjob and don’t know how policy actually works.
ruemara
@Yarrow: Born outside the USA: check. Green card holder: check. Birth parent (and step parent) naturalized before child is 18: check.
Considering that I: did not know my stepfather wasn’t my father, or that I was not an American until I was 14 & 16 (because college), it kinda makes sense when my stepfather said, you know, you may be a citizen already, you should check. Thanks guys. Only took you 40 years.
brendan in NC
@ruemara: @Yarrow: I’d bet you probably are! My ex-wife took her naturalization test when her son was 17. That meant that he became a citizen when she did; and didn’t need to take the test himself. If those were the rules a few years ago in NC; I’d bet you were covered when your mom did it too.
Mnemosyne
@Yarrow:
IIRC, native-born US citizens can claim dual citizenship from another country if they’re eligible, but naturalized citizens have to renounce their previous citizenship. But I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
Steeplejack
@ruemara:
Yeah, I was surprised today to hear one of the USCIS officials telling the new citizens about which form(s) they needed to fill out to confirm that their (under 18, living with them) children are now also U.S. citizens. Cool. And makes sense.
khead
I’m not really sure why every one is upset about this. I, for one, am sure that we can count on right-leaning think tanks to provide fair estimates.
For example here’s BJ’s favorite health care hack, Avik Roy, and a nice gentleman from AEI explaining how 100 million people would lose their health insurance back in 2013.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Always keep this in mind.
Steeplejack
@woodrowfan:
The infrastructure was excellent! There was a big, well-staffed voter registration desk in the main lobby of the high school, and I think all the new citizens’ information packets included information and applications. The USCIS officials running the event mentioned it several times, and Rep. Connolly exhorted them in his speech to “never miss an election!”
And my niece (almost three years old) and nephew (15 months) were sporting their “Future Voter” stickers that they were given.
ruemara
@Steeplejack: YAY!
Steeplejack
@Yarrow:
Bro’ Man definitely has both British and U.S. passports. I think he has said that using the British one to fly to Britain and the U.S. one coming back avoids a lot of hassles, or maybe just simplifies things.
Aleta
@Steeplejack: A great time to take a music and dance break.
Aleta
@ruemara: This is good news. I hope the paperwork goes quickly.
ruemara
False alarm. They started the paperwork before I was 18 and didn’t finish until I was 30. Do you see why I’m crazy?
AnonPhenom
@Weaselone:
yes, you’re thinking of the Office of Technology Assessment any truths or facts that stand in opposition to their one true faith are a heresy that must be kept from the beautiful minds of their followers.
taxation is theft.
government is the problem.
knowledge is elitist.
greed is good
Reagan is the one true prophet .
Fuck their feelings.
Ohio Mom
@ruemara: That is a funny and very believable story.
Steeplejack
Thanks for everyone’s good wishes. Yay, citizenship! Yay, voting!
Now I’m off to the party at Sighthound Hall. Many Brazilians, so it will be yooge.
Honus
@germy: and she’s working to destroy American education and make the American populace stupider. Which is good for Russia.
Honus
@Yarrow: I’m a native and educated there. Spelling is hard
Honus
@TenguPhule: because those fuckers will always vote republican before they’ll vote for a woman, minority or a white male with education and sense.
Honus
@TenguPhule: yep. The maverick son of an admiral and married to a billionairess is getting off his deathbed to deny healthcare to working people.
Uncle Cosmo
@Walker: Interesting. But I think there’s a loophole for USAns who qualify for another country’s citizenship by jus sanguinis. As an example, I believe I still qualify* for Italian citizenship because my parents were considered Italian citizens even though they were born over here, by virtue of their parents having been born in Italy. In theory, to claim the rights of an Italian citizen (e.g., by requesting a passport from the Italian government), I would not have to apply for Italian citizenship itself, but only for Italy’s recognition that I’d been (so to speak) pre-qualified for citizenship due to the circumstances of my birth. (Of course they could & would require documentation to prove it, which is why I haven’t done it already.)
—–
* This was true the last time I looked it up, a couple of years back, not sure about today.
frosty fred
@Uncle Cosmo: A friend who’s an attorney was looking into this not long ago, so I think it still holds.
Uncle Cosmo
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Renouncing one’s citizenship in Country X matters to the US authorities. It may not matter to Country X. IIRC Italy still considered my maternal grandfather a citizen even after he “renounced” his citizenship-by-birth to become a US citizen.
@Mnemosyne: Sounds about right, see blatheration above.
Steeplejack (phone)
HeleninEire (Ireland?) should weigh in on this dual-citizenship thing.
Uncle Cosmo
@frosty fred: Grazie tanto! I may be in something of a peculiar situation re my maternal grandfather. If Italy did take him off the books once he renounced his Italian citizenship, then any child born subsequently would not qualify as an Italian citizen. The crucial question for me then becomes exactly when that renunciation took effect. Was it when he filed the application for US citizenship? Or when US citizenship was actually granted? Crucial because although he applied well before my mother was born, he was not granted US citizenship until shortly after her birth.
(NB this wouldn’t be a show-stopper but definitely a show-slower – I’d probably qualify through any of my other grandparents, but he’s the only one for whom we have copies of all the documents. Between misspellings & illiteracy & absence-of-evidence-is-not-evidence-of-absence, tracking things down for any of the others would be a frackin’ nightmare.)
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
D’oh! But does the fact that they eventually finished the paperwork bump you higher on the list for naturalization because your mother is a citizen? Again, contact a good immigration lawyer, but I think it’s supposed to.
Jeffro
All these clowns do, in their attempts to preserve their dwindling privilege, is destroy long-held traditions and norms. Redistricting every year/every opportunity instead of only right after each Census. Extreme gerrymandering. Making it acceptable to take unlimited ‘dark money’ donations. Suppressing the vote. Refusing to even allow hearings for, much less vote on, Supreme Court nominees unless they’re nominated by a Republican. Colluding with hostile foreign powers. All in the service of keeping (white, male) Republicans in power, to service the rich. In this, McConnell, Ryan, and Trump are exactly the same: whatever it takes to hold on, tradition, norms. democracy, history, Constitution be damned.
schrodingers_cat
@ruemara: If the child is below 18, then I don’t think any paperwork is necessary. That’s what the USCIS official at the naturalization ceremony said IIRC. You should definitely check with an immigration lawyer.
Steeplejack (phone)
@schrodingers_cat:
The official today said there is a form (N-600) that she recommended be filed to “confirm” the child’s new citizenship status.
Steeplejack (phone)
Also, BIL just confirmed to me that at no time in any of his classes or interviews did the subject of dual citizenship or renouncing his Brazilian citizenship ever come up.
Steeplejack (phone)
@ruemara:
I think you would have a straightforward case if your birth certificate shows that you were under 18 when your mother was naturalized. I would start by investigating whether you can file a retroactive form N-600 (to confirm your already legitimate but previously unknown citizenship).
schrodingers_cat
@Steeplejack (phone): US doesn’t care if naturalized citizens give up their citizenship. We only had to surrender our GCs not old passports.
Marguerite Hill
@TaMara (HFG): I am a resident of a red state. Right after November 8, 2016, there was an abundance of gleeful anticipation at the hell Tr*mp would rain down on PoC, LGBTQ, Democrats, and all ni€€er-lovers. The local GOP proudly announced their next meeting, making it soon like Carnivale, Mardi Gras, and Navy Week all rolled in one.
Well, well, well…Haven’t heard a peep from them since February.
The local politicians, GOP naturally, are on the down low and not to be trusted. They are still working to solidify their theft of the 2016 election by “consolidating” polling stations. Once a thief/cheater/liar, ALWAYS a thief/cheater/liar!
Marguerite Hill
@TaMara (HFG): I am a resident of a red state. Right after November 8, 2016, there was an abundance of gleeful anticipation at the hell Tr*mp would rain down on PoC, LGBTQ, Democrats, and all ni€€er-lovers. The local GOP proudly announced their next meeting, making it soon like Carnivale, Mardi Gras, and Navy Week all rolled in one.
Well, well, well…Haven’t heard a peep from them since February.
They are still working to solidify their theft of the 2016 election by “consolidating” polling stations. Once a thief/cheater/liar, ALWAYS a thief/cheater/liar!
SgrAstar
@catclub: Are you kidding? Palin’s main drawback was that she is irredeemably stupid and vicious. Wait…Palin’s two main drawbacks were that she is irredeemably stupid, vicious, and incompetent. Wait…Palin’s three main drawbacks were…..?