Bob Woodward has become a full-on Trump stooge:
The Washington Post’s Bob Woodward warned on Wednesday that there are people from the Obama administration who could be facing criminal charges for unmasking the names of Trump transition team members from surveillance of foreign officials.
[…]“But the idea that there was intelligence value here is really thin,” Woodward said. “It’s, again, down the middle, it is not what Trump said, but this could be criminal on the part of people who decided, oh, let’s name these people.”
(He said all of this on O’Reilly)
And here he is being called out by Mika Brzezinski of all people:
Brzezinski asked him to clarify his suggestion that Obama might have wiretapped Trump Tower due to the large number of visitors.
“It almost seems fantastical,” she said. “I understand you want to have an open mind, but what’s your advice on covering this in the days and weeks to come? Let it go, because the president won’t let it go?”
Woodward said reporters should continue to cover the president’s backpedaling, which he said was just “part of the dance” that “just goes on forever and ever.”
“Wiretapping the president meant surveillance — okay,” Woodward said, as Brzezinski cocked her head in bafflement. “Hypothetically, suppose you are the Russians and you want to find out what’s going on in Trump Tower. You’ve got all these people coming in, as you’ve said. I think it would have been possible for anyone to monitor who these people were, what was going on.”
Brzezinski cringed before finally cutting him off.
XTPD
You better act like CeCe, Robert, and keep fucking that chicken.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
said it before, I’ll say it again, he’s the Norma Desmond of Punditry, the internet was his talkies that killed off his business model of source stroking and publishing “behind the scene” blockbusters
“I am still big, Mika, it is the scandals that have gotten small”
The Moar You Know
Rare to see a guy as committed to zeroing out his karma balance as Woodward, Republican Stooge™.
WereBear
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: LOL!
He’s been heading down this road for quite a while now.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Great analogy!
hueyplong
Keeping in mind the seemingly no-exceptions rule that anyone who clings to Trump is destroyed, it gives me great pleasure to see Woodward board the SS Shitgibbon.
oldster
Breaking news: Democrats to filibuster Gorsuch.
I just called both of my Dem Sens to thank them. The staffers said that they are happy too.
I’m not sure about all of the eleven-dimension chess.
But there’s always value in saying, “You stole it, now own up to stealing it.”
PaulW
As for Woodward, he’s always been more about “access” to people than in investigating their potential screw-ups.
schrodingers_cat
Bob Woodward represents T’s core constituency, he is a middle aged white man who is resting on his past laurels.
debit
Oh, Bob. Just baby step until irrelevance.
MattF
Woodward, in his prime, was all about access and stroking, then writing a fat book that made his sources look good. Doing that with Trump doesn’t work, and, incidentally, gives you a pre-assigned slot in one of the less popular Circles of Hell.
hovercraft
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Ha ! Good one!
@oldster:
Yay !
I missed it yesterday, but even effin Tweety is calling for them to filibuster him.
As for Bob, when Twitler’s lost even Brokaw…..
Tom Brokaw Declares Trump White House ‘Full Of Burning Fuses’
perhaps it’s time to hang em up.
Another Scott
@oldster: Good, good.
https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/844915278463074305
Cheers,
Scott.
Barbara
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Great analogy. Even the make up is similar.
Roger Moore
I think he’s more worried that someone else will get credit for bringing down a president. That’s his shtick, dammit, and he isn’t going to share.
Mnemosyne
Given all of the other “coincidental” connections to Russia in this election, can we look into Woodward’s connections? It would be genuinely irresponsible not to.
Elizabelle
I don’t mind a bit if Trump takes out a good part of the corrupted media culture. Good riddance.
If Woodward wants to be an “own goal”, not my problem. Didn’t read the clip, but quite ironic to be propping up someone who coordinated with Russia, when Nixon’s sins were less, IMHO. Nixon was not a nihilist.
muddy
This is the text of an email I sent a front pager here LAST APRIL:
I brought it up in comments too, but no one was really interested. Brought it up at LGM and someone scolded me because I said that Troutmouth Bob really put on the lipstick for this slobber job. Woodward was saying that Trump was “the new George W!!!!” and then they put up a flattering pic of W in the interview.
Corner Stone
Woodward has seemed to me to be deeply stupid for as long as I have been aware of him.
Corner Stone
I don’t want to go all “Peak Wingnut” or anything…but I am starting to think we may actually see indictments issued in the short term future.
zach
Maybe he sees there’s not much time left and that he needs to get on Trump’s good side ASAP if he wants to write the biography he’s written about every first term since HW Bush.
artem1s
@oldster: Thank goodness. Politico was reporting last night that there was a block of Dem Senators negotiating to pass Gorsuch to save the filibuster. I called Sherrod Brown’s office and stated flat out that as a lifelong Dem voter, if they weren’t willing to use the filibuster to block Gorsuch, what possible use would it be to save it? And I would make it my life’s mission to destroy the party if they didn’t stop confirming high level positions while the GOP and Russia was under investigation for election tampering. I would consider it an indication that the DNC is just fine with my vote in 2016 being stolen does not believe my future votes are worth protecting,
debit
@Corner Stone: But he’s so dreamy!
…wait, that was Robert Redford.
MattF
@MattF: This was based on a vague recollection of a long-ago reading of Dante. Here are some more details, and a quote:
zach
@Corner Stone:
It’s hard to see how we avoid at least Stone, Manafort and Flynn under oath before the Senate. Democrats should demand it as a condition for lifting a Gorsuch filibuster.
Baud
@oldster: Wow. I’m impressed. Didn’t think they would do it.
Duke's Archives
I still maintain that the only reason anybody liked Woodward was because Robert Redford played him in All The President’s Men.
artem1s
@Corner Stone:
He also seems to think he is actually Robert Redford and doesn’t seem to get that most people wouldn’t know who the fuck he is if Redford hadn’t played him in the film.
dr. bloor
@Mnemosyne: Meh. Putin might have fancied Bobby to be an asset thirty years ago. Now, not so much.
Omnes Omnibus
@zach:
No.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@schrodingers_cat:
Bob is 73; he’s a bit beyond middle aged I would argue.
I think he believes he’s the one who should be consulted about what is or is not corruption. He just can’t relinquish the spot light. Norma Desmond, indeed.
Another Scott
@artem1s: Yup. There does come a point when one needs to stand up for one’s baseline principles and step out of the “comity” box.
The Democrats can’t destroy the filibuster/cloture system. Only the majority can do that, and right now the GOP is the majority. We need to make them accept the responsibility for their actions and own their policies.
If McConnell and the rest want to blow up the Senate, they can do it. They have the votes. But we’ll remember when they’re in the minority, and them destroying the Senate will hasten their demise…
Cheers,
Scott.
A Ghost To Most
@oldster: Sent a message to Micheal Bennet this morning, telling him to stand strong on ACA, and to filibuster Gorsuch, or face the wrath of the left in his next election.
zach
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s a no-lose promise. You don’t agree to lift the filibuster until after the hearings and all of the three will either refuse to answer, commit obvious perjury, or reveal sufficiently damning evidence to justify reneging and further stalling confirmation.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zach: McCain and Graham should live up to their reputations and freeze all Senate business, including Gorusch, until an independent commission is appointed and in place, by vote of the two houses and Trump’s signature. And yes, I would rather bet on the Powerball.
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
Woodward and Bernstein seem not to have had anything positive to say about either the Clinton or Obama administrations, and they both seemed to hate Hillary so I generally don’t pat attention to anything either one of them says.
schrodingers_cat
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
Point conceded. He is old.
Immanentize
@Corner Stone: there is no peak wingnut, more like “A bear went over a mountain.”
randy khan
@zach:
[Never mind – I misread your comment.]
Corner Stone
@schrodingers_cat: ***GASPS***
zach
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
For how much their war-mongering on Russia-related issues has scared the crap out of me over the years it’s always seemed about as genuinely felt as anything in politics and at least now it’s aligned with common sense… very worried about what happens with an emboldened anti-Russia bloc if Trump quits, though.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@West of the Rockies (been a while): I would’ve thought he was was older. A few years ago, in Obama’s second term, he launched the idea that the problem with politics was that Obama wouldn’t socialize with Mitch McConnell. He cited Newt Gingrich as an authority on the importance of civility and social relationships in politics. He was not laughed off the set (of IIRC Morning Joseph), but set off a round of somber nods of agreement and concurring finger wags at Obama.
muddy
Just watch him: https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/bob-woodward-discusses-his-very-unusual-trump-interview/2016/04/02/da07feb8-f92b-11e5-958d-d038dac6e718_video.html
Omnes Omnibus
@zach: Gorsuch doesn’t pass the Garland test. He should not be confirmed.
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: Are you okay?
Corner Stone
@hovercraft: Woodward has always been an R knob slobberer, IMO. But I agree, the level of vitriol Bernstein displayed against HRC was off the charts and really surprised me. He had previously seemed critical of some reasonable things but that was some batshit crazy levels of nastiness.
PPCLI
Woodward has been long gone for a long time. Witness his Iran-Contra obfuscating “deathbed admission” of culpability by William Casey. Conveniently, the buck stopped with dead guy.
zach
@randy khan:
Of course not… I just mean a bipartisan committee (50/50 split) with subpoena authority… which would obviously subpoena those three to testify.
randy khan
Something happened to Woodward during the Bush II Administration. I don’t know what it was, but maybe it was that he was thrilled that Republicans would talk to him again.
The Moar You Know
@zach: It’s a no-lose promise for the GOP. It’s a no-win proposition for Dems. We either force his withdrawal or make McConnell break the filibuster. Nothing else is remotely acceptable. It’s a stolen seat. A Republican president has no right to make that appointment, end of story.
Corner Stone
@schrodingers_cat:
/whispers
i..i can’t believe you said…the “o” word…
Immanentize
i think Bernstein was better than Woody. But I really haven’t given two poots about either since Carter was elected.
Woodrowfan
@PPCLI: which was utter bullshit. Casey was unable to speak and under heavy guard.
muddy
@randy khan: Because he was always one himself, and it made him sad to be out of the club due to his previous work.
Major Major Major Major
@oldster: good.
I was literally just chewing out two lefty friends on Facebook for piling on democrats as worthless collaborators based on that thinly-sources “Dems might make a deal” POS article from neighborhood gossip rag Politico.
kindness
Mika will never be able to atone for all the assistance Morning Joe gave Trump in getting elected. Sorry but….
Corner Stone
I personally do not want to tie anything to the SCOTUS confirmations. Let the justice system move forward and see what happens next. Filibuster Gorsuch.
Fin.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: They’ll just move on to the next litmus test and betrayal.
Immanentize
@PPCLI: I still am suspicious regarding the death of Casey. Sudden brain tumor, quick death, no one sees the body? Calling Msr. Poirot!
Timurid
@schrodingers_cat:
Age is a hell of a drug.
I am middle aged, and I live in fear of the day when an invisible switch flips inside my head and I turn into a bitter old fuck.
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: BTW I tried the new Indian restaurant in the next town over, and they make the most amazing goat curry and I am not even a big fan of goat. They have a great weekend buffet too.
SatanicPanic
@Major Major Major Major: I got into with some over the “Hillary might run again article”, like, guys it’s Politico. Sheesh. At least it wasn’t RT that time.
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
Exactly, there were several times as I was watching him ,I thought to myself that something must have happened with her, his hatred almost pulsed off the screen.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
BTW, this pertains to the downstairs thread, but what is ZEGS?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver. Charlie Pierce’s name for Paul Ryan.
germy
I remember when Bob wrote his biography of John Belushi.
And everyone who knew and worked with Belushi said Bob had gotten every single detail wrong. Completely missed the point of every anecdote.
Timurid
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver
ArchTeryx
@hovercraft: (reposted from dead thread downstairs) I think it comes down to understanding something about human nature and the realization that immiseration doesn’t produce liberal outcomes – it produces extreme right-wing ones. Even if you don’t go Godwin, look what happened to the Bolsheviks! Look what nearly happened to us before FDR stepped in! We easily could have thrown in with the Nazis in WWII and quite a few of our moneyed class wanted to do just that.
“Heighten the contradictions” is the rallying cry of those too privileged to think it can happen to them. It almost never works out, and is that tiny bit of odds in your favour worth the death of millions?
Baud
@Timurid:
That’s most of Balloon Juice. The fear should be turning wingnut.
SamR
Woodward Republican pattern, post-Nixon:
First 6.5 years- defend, defend, defend
Last 1.5 years- write “here’s where it all went wrong” pieces/book.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone:
This.
Certified Mutant Enemy
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
Zombie Eyed Granny Starver?
bystander
@Corner Stone:
Ah, go on. We all want to about now.
Speaking of crap journalism, the Joe panelists were aghast that Schiff had rebutted Nunes. Both sides do it will never die.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: good christ, I’d forgotten all about that.
JCJ
@Immanentize:
Curse you! Now I have that playing in my head. When I was a kid my parents got me a record of Bozo the Clown and that song was on there. I am surprised my parents never strangled me as I used to love that song on that record.
Hmmm. Maybe that is why I find clowns so disturbing now.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: You are quite lovable! Jackals are ornery on the outside and soft on the inside, like the jackfruit.
hovercraft
@kindness:
Mika and Joe, accomplished their goal. Now they can rail against him and “prove” that they weren’t cheerleaders at all, see they’re critical now, they are too real journalists!! See now no one can call them enablers.
zhena gogolia
@Corner Stone:
To say “he is old” is not offensive; to say “he is an old” is offensive. Got that?
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: one of them literally just had his big political awakening like a year ago. I used to really not like him, then when that happened I figured hey look he’s finally coming around… nope, now he’s still a self-important asshole, but about something else.
@zhena gogolia: I said “the olders” as a noun yesterday, is that ok?
schrodingers_cat
@Timurid: Its not a necessary condition of advanced age and there are quite a few bitter not so old people too.
gvg
he did 4 or 5 books on Bush and I found them informative even though he came across as clueless in them. I don’t think he could have realized how lacking in judgement he was revealing himself to be. He wrote what he saw, and at first he fluffed Bush though his descriptions were detailed enough that I could see how stupid the Bush administrations plans were and predict how it would turn out, he clearly thought it was going to go well. As time passed and incompetence was revealed even to the unwilling, it was even amusing. As Bush passed into Iraq and the high casualty phase, it wasn’t funny anymore and I stopped reading, even though he was fairly scathing. Then Obama was elected and he got pretty insulting. I haven’t bothered with him since.
He may later on be a useful observer even if he tries to fluff. I am not so sure though that he hasn’t become a bit senile based on what I have seen in passing the last several years.
germy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Since he botched a celebrity biography…
I’m sort of skeptical of everything he writes.
All he had to do was listen to Belushi’s friends and associates, and write down their recollections. But he misunderstood everything.
Maybe that’s why repubs feel safe talking to him?
amk
Other than a few of his bw cronies, who gives a shit about what this hasbeen has to say.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Well, he did excellent work bin helping bring down Nixon. I don’t know, maybe it’s like old Piston Isaiah Thomas or Pat Riley shambling into the locker room. The guys will listen to what they have to say, but their best years were two or three decades ago.
Immanentize
@bystander: I am sure someone else thought of this, but is it possible the person in the intercepts was Nunes himself? He was on Trump’s transition team and has business with Russia. Even if the intercepts were de-identified, he would know exactly what to look for. Like when I was a kid and went to a new town, first thing I would look for would be my name in the phone book.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Major Major Major Major: Dave Weigel suggested this morning that the time for “the left” to get excited about the Supreme Court was last year, specifically during the election. He’s getting a lot “Oh yeah, like Hillary’s pick would’ve been any better”. I don’t remember the left, broadly speaking, getting excited about the Supreme Court since ’92
Corner Stone
@schrodingers_cat: That’s great news! I’ll fly right over.
I am actually quite bummed about a decline in quality and service at my local take out place. It had previously been consistently very good and I worked with them to get the heat level to what I was looking for. Then at some point it seemed like every unemployed cousin came to work there, they had to cut costs or something, and now every dish is Lucifer levels of heat with none of the same spice or flavors. Just lethal hot. I tried three or four different dishes thinking it was maybe just me, but all of them had noticeably declined in quality and flavor. Even the naan! How do you screw up naan bread?
And I make the crack about “unemployed cousins” because the last few times I go to pick up, five or six youngish males of (I believe) Indian heritage are all sitting at a table by the counter arguing about something. I walk in and they all stop talking and start glaring at me. And I mean *glaring* like I was the health inspector or mob guy there to shake them down. The last time it was latent hostility to the point of making me wonder if I should not come back there.
Mnemosyne
@hovercraft:
For some reason, Hillary reminds a lot of insecure men of their ex-wife. And Bernstein’s ex-wife was Nora Ephron, who wrote a bestselling novel about how he cheated on her while she was pregnant with their second child (Heartburn).
schrodingers_cat
@amk: He still has cred because of Watergate among regular peeps and the media.
Immanentize
@JCJ:
There are so many other reasons to fear clowns….
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
From real people? That sounds like a 4chan simulation of an emoprog.
hovercraft
@zhena gogolia:
But I like the “olds” they are who I aspire to one day become. Just Older or old is not hip, the “olds” in my mind is Sophia from Golden Girls.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: You only say that because we’ve never met.
WereBear
@germy: That was when I realized what a stupid ass-kisser he was. He knows what he thinks and everything is jammed into place.
And Bernstein, whatever else, was the brains and actual reporter in that outfit.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Timurid:
Ah, roger that. Thanks.
cmorenc
@zach:
Why in HELL should the dems give ANY linkage between the two? The FBI will be digging aplenty into those three, irrespective of what any GOP-led congressional committee does with them – and especially wrt Flynn, the GOP chair would probably hold the hearings behind closed doors under “classified” wraps. And so you wouldn’t get the public airing you seek with your leverage proposal anyway.
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: May be the take out place changed hands? We had a great Schezwan (sp?) place over here, now everything is bathing in MSG and extra sodium.
I would steer clear of the cousins, if I were you.
GregB
Poor Bob Woodward, he doesn’t realize that he has reached the Randy “Ram” Robinson character played by Mickey Rourke in The Wrestler moment in his journalistic career.
cmorenc
@zach:
Why in HELL should the dems permit ANY linkage between the two, especially for bargaining purposes? The FBI will be digging aplenty into those three, irrespective of what any GOP-led congressional committee does with them – and especially wrt Flynn, the GOP chair would probably hold the hearings behind closed doors under “classified” wraps. And so you wouldn’t get the public exposure you seek with your leverage proposal – you’d be selling out giving Gorsuch a pass for mere worthless trinkets.
Corner Stone
@zhena gogolia: Fine. Now can we get back to talking about boobs?
Mike in DC
At least Bernstein shunned taking the courtier to power route.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Don’t get me started on the left’s sneering dismissal of Garland based on one (1) Guantanamo decision. It’s still a major sore spot for me.
WereBear
A lot of men are freaked out by women who want to be treated like they are people. They should get over it, but never will.
It does serve as a handy jerk indicator, though.
Major Major Major Major
@GregB: at least Robinson could still throw an elbow.
Baud
@Corner Stone: Why did we ever stop?
germy
@Mnemosyne:
And I suspect she reminded some of the dumber R-voters about a teacher they’d had in high school. Maybe some of our friends on the far left also had unpleasant high school teacher memories?
Oatler.
@germy: They definitely feel safe on MSNBC, where weary disgraced Rs can rest their heads while getting pleasured by the network’s eager A-team.
hovercraft
OT, did I miss a discussion of Twitler’s TIME interview?
The 7 Wildest Moments From Trump’s Fact-Free Time Magazine Interview via TPM, which links to WaPost.
President Donald Trump sat down with Time Magazine on Wednesday for an interview centered on the idea of “truth,” which prompted the President to fiercely defend some of the most baseless and bizarre claims he has made both on the campaign trail and while serving in office.
Trump repeatedly insisted throughout the interview that he has great instincts and that his political predictions tend to come true, while brushing off questions about whether he knew there was any truth to his statements at the time he actually made them.
Below are the wildest moments from Trump’s interview with Time.
1- “A wiretapping is, you know today it is different than wire tapping”
2- Anthony Weiner “had it, all of Hillary’s email on his thing”
3- “I’m not saying” GCHQ wiretapped me, “I’m quoting highly respected people” who said so
4- “Name what’s wrong!”
Asked if he was worried about his credibility should any of his anonymously-sourced claims were later proven wrong, Trump challenged Scherer, “Name what’s wrong! I mean, honestly.”
5- “I talked about Sweden” and “two days later, they had a massive riot”
6- “I have people say it was more than” 3 million votes that were illegally cast in 2016
7-“I’m president, and you’re not”
Asked once more at the end of the interview about his credibility, Trump told Scherer: “Hey look, in the mean time, I guess, I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh man, Nancy Pelosi trolling Ryan so damn hard. I didn’t catch everything, but she definitely said “Rookie mistake”, and her demeanor was so clearly showing delight at stumble bum Paulie flailing away.
Trying not to get too optimistic, fall in line is still their default, but maybe ex-Repubilcan Josh Barro is right
Marblehead Jim Jordan has drawn this line in the sand, but sand shifts.
zhena gogolia
@Corner Stone:
Did you check out Miriam Margolyes?
Kay
Oh, he’s right. It’s “down the middle” and no one will ever know the truth, because the truth is unknowable and purely a matter of interpretation. Trump isn’t like a LIAR liar.
These people have been doing this WAY too long. The pundit circuit needs some turnover.
How much does he make for this commentary, I wonder? A zillion dollars? I feel like all these people make a ton of money and I don’t know why. It’s some kind of weird cartel or something, cable news.
bystander
@Immanentize: I thought Nunes had that “oh s##t” look at the press conference and the flailing and incoherence only made him look more suspect. Then I thought I was having a peak wingnut moment. Anyway, I do hope he’s caught up in it.
Yarrow
@Corner Stone:
Yes. This. With the Russian investigations moving quickly, who knows where we’ll be in a week. At some point the argument that Trump and the Republicans in Congress, who won their elections with Russian help, shouldn’t be allowed to appoint a Supreme Court Justice will begin to get a lot more coverage.
Speaking of the Russian investigation, I’d missed the news that Manafort has hired a crisis communications team. That’s a sign he knows he’s in trouble.
Edited–forgot to add this:
Yep. Manafort’s going down.
The Moar You Know
@ArchTeryx: Fun fact: in 1947, Joe McCarthy and the Congressional GOP got the sentences of every single Nazi in US custody overturned, alleging they’d been tortured by the Army into confessing.
The Republicans have always loved the Nazi party.
JPL
@muddy: No thanks! After you description, it’s not necessary.
Major Major Major Major
@germy: ‘maybe’? We had people (trolls?) here saying it.
Baud
@The Moar You Know: I never knew that.
germy
@zhena gogolia:
wikipedia
Epicurus
Funny how Karl Rove and “Scooter” Libby divulging the name of a covert CIA agent didn’t cause Woodward to call for their prosecution. Sorry, Bob, Watergate was a long time ago. What have you done for us lately?
bystander
@zhena gogolia:
And “he is uh old” is the offensivest of all.
MomSense
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m growing fenugreek leaves in a pot on my windowsill. I harvest them when they are small and super tasty because my friend craves dosas with baby fenugreek leaves.
I can’t believe how easy it is to grow them indoors.
Iowa Old Lady
OT, but Kos is quoting “Health Insurance Wonk,” David Anderson.
germy
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Did you know that Prescott Bush was a war profiteer who made money from the Nazi machine?
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: I had heard that story, although not the details.
The Moar You Know
@Baud: I didn’t either until last night. It’s in one of the final chapters of “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” (William Shirer) as a footnote.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Bernie Sanders on my TeeVee. I’ve got it muted, but maybe he’s at long last sending out that call for mill-youngs and mill-youngs of young people to show up outside Mitch McConnell’s window
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: How sad is it that the country would be far, far better off if that family were back in charge of things?
Iowa Old Lady
I’m catching up with that Time article in which Trump says he’s not doing so badly because “I’m president and you’re not.”
To which I say, and you’re under FBI investigation and I’m not.
Corner Stone
@zhena gogolia: She did seem to meet the definition of well endowed.
Gelfling 545
It is becoming apparent that Woodward actually had no real understanding of what was up with the whole Watergate deal. To think he was once considered an Icon of US journalism. Sad.
Kay
I love the breezy casualness of the commentary and how none of them ever mention VOTERS.
The Russian government interfered in an election and not just a Presidential election but Congressional elections as well. They did that because they wanted Republicans elected. Voters did not know this at the time and sure as shit it will happen again in the next election because they were wildly successful.
Shouldn’t voters have been told this was going on and shouldn’t they now be told what it is Russia wants from Republicans? Because they want something. Seems like voters should know what that is before they go out and vote for Republicans again. At least give them a fighting chance on an informed vote.
This really isn’t all about Donald Trump- his hopes, his dreams, his successes and failures. It’s bigger than that.
jonas
@Elizabelle:
Maybe not with regard to the Russians, but he did stoop so low as to purposefully prolong the Vietnam War for his own political gain. That’s pretty fucking cynical, if not nihilistic.
Immanentize
@Baud: @Major Major Major Major: @The Moar You Know: I had heard that years back (but no details). We used to joke that was why HW flew in the pacific, otherwise old Prescott might feel conflicted.
Corner Stone
@germy: I think it’s great. People like Graydon should all start making just wild ass claims against and about Trump, using unattributed sources. A full stream firehose of bullshit coming back Trump’s way, the same way he spews his lying nonsense with no evidence allowed.
jonas
Bob Fucking Woodward? How is he even on television still, what with his jaw still being so sore from having Bush and Cheney’s junk crammed in it for so long back in the aughts?
Major Major Major Major
@jonas: Well, it’s certainly treasonous, and he should have hanged for it.
Elizabelle
@Kay: Yup.
I want fresh elections. Tainted fruit of a tainted election.
OR: seat the popular vote winner. Although the screaming would not subside for a century.
If all this pain takes the Republican crazies and wingnut media out, it’s still too much pain, but something has to give. The country is becoming ungovernable, on purpose, because of rightwingers and their media squishes.
muddy
@JPL: Well thanks for the acknowledgement anyway. I feel I’ve become invisible here.
randy khan
@hovercraft:
The mental picture for item 2 is a bit much for me, in a Carlos Danger kind of way.
Corner Stone
@Iowa Old Lady:
I smell a Cage Match!!!
Ladies and Gentlemen, in this corner you have the Wonk’s Wonk! A Policy Wonk extraordinaire! A legislator known far and wide for thinking deeply about policy and caring about poverty and the poor with all his wonky might! Fightin’ Policy Paulie Blue Eyes!
And here’s our challenger! An up and coming young wonk looking to stake his claim in the Health Care Policy Arena! BJ Dick MayhewAnderson!
germy
Baud
@muddy: I see you!
Kay
@Elizabelle:
Let’s go back to the beginning and ask normal questions.
1. Why do Donald Trump and his associates have so many connections to various Russian kleptocrats and such?
2. Is it purely coincidental that Donald Trump and his associates have so many connections to Russian kleptocrats and such AND Russia interfered in the election and backed Trump and not just “backed Trump” but worked as hard as they could to give Trump a GOP Congress?
These are normal questions. Voters might be interested in some answers sometime prior to the next election, where Russia will interfere again.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Paula
I hope that while Woodward is yapping on TV journalists are busily doing the work that will bring down this atrocity of an administration. THEY are this generation’s heroes.
hovercraft
@ArchTeryx:
Reply on the old thread.
MomSense
@Corner Stone:
Health policy too wonkalicious for ya babe.
zhena gogolia
@Corner Stone:
You asked if there were any buxom women in The Age of Innocence, and Michelle Pfeiffer and Winona Ryder don’t fit that bill. Margolyes is a great actress and funny as hell — look what she does to Matthew Perry in this clip. I’m addicted to her Graham Norton appearances.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
Voting is a choice between candidates. With better information voters might have made a different choice. But no one gave them this information and they still don’t have it, and that matters because Donald Trump’s election was not the final US election, forever. Voters could make a different choice and back someone other than the favored candidates of Russian plutocrats but to do that they’ll have to know which candidates ARE backed by Russia.
It seems like that should be the focus. Not what does this mean for Donald Trump but what does it mean for US voters?
Baud
@Kay:
You haven’t been listening to our pessimists.
zach
@cmorenc:
That’s already Sen. Warren’s main rhetoric and I think it’s a lot more solid than complaining about Garland. I get the “just say no” strategy without making a demand that seems reasonable to most (demanding a vote on Garland seems reasonable to me… but oh well). It worked really well for the GOP. I prefer Warren’s strategy of linking it to corruption because I think the end is the same: GOP goes for nuclear option instead of agreeing to public testimony from Trump campaign staff.
My way you end up in the same place, practically (no more filibuster or withdrawing Gorsuch) and show GOP is participating in the Trumpster fire cover up at the same time.
But I also loudly predicted Trump would drop out before the election even if he somehow managed to win the nomination so I don’t trust my instincts on this stuff anymore.
hovercraft
@germy:
So a woman who is not anyone’s “ex” gets tagged as just that stereotype, and as the harsh schoolteacher? No misogyny here folks, move along, she just gives certain men those feelings, maybe if she was hot or something this wouldn’t be an issue. All that smarty pants stuff she did and said just wasn’t helpful.
zhena gogolia
@bystander:
Right!
muddy
@Baud: I raise!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m assuming reporters are asking this question because they have some leak that Nunes got the information he “briefed” trumpy on from the Executive branch.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m amused they finally saw some political risk in Donald Trump lying all the time.
They don’t care that he lies. They care that a majority of people may realize he lies all the time. I saw polling that 60% think he’s dishonest. He is dishonest so let’s hope that first impression sticks.
muddy
@zhena gogolia: I know, she frightens the young men with her sexuality. So funny.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@zhena gogolia: She had a pretty funny role in the first Blackadder series, she played Infanta Maria Escalosa of Spain. Jim Broadbent was her translator.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@hovercraft: Tweety, who the internet suggests has been married once and is somehow not divorced, was big on the “reminds guys of their first wives” thing.
Baud
@muddy: You sunk my battleship!
Oh wait, that’s not right…
muddy
@hovercraft: My sister, a proud liberal, says she doesn’t like Warren because she sounds like she’s scolding people. ???
I said they need scolding!!!
SFAW
@zach:
Still no. You seem to be imputing something close to honest behavior, or perhaps integrity, to Turtle and his minions. [For example: Stone or Manafort provide “sufficiently damaging evidence … further stalling confirmation.” And that would happen in THIS Congress?]
I suggest you reconsider your assumptions.
Mnemosyne
@hovercraft:
There are few worse things that can happen than a narcissistic sociopath feeling like they won. They then decide that they are invincible and can do anything they want in the future.
MomSense
@Kay:
He’s the worst. Even breaks the only rule for scoundrels. If you can’t be good, be good at it.
He can’t even be good at being bad.
Total wanker. SAD!
hovercraft
@Iowa Old Lady:
Notice he’s still harping about “illegal votes”, he won the popular vote dammit, he did! Why won’t you believe it!!
@randy khan:
Good God, did you have to go there? I can’t unsee that, thanks!
Kay
@Baud:
I think about it. I think about it because I read Donald Trump’s gushing over how much he adores Putin.
Trump admires authoritarians. Fact.
rikyrah
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA
rikyrah
Woodward is a bytch that is mad that there were no scandals during 44’s term. And, that 44 ran a tight ship and nobody was blabbing to him.
Corner Stone
Somebody’s trying make shit get real:
SFAW
@muddy:
Yeah, all those smart, strong wimmins are such bitches, amirite???
Not sure how liberal your sister really is.
zach
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I honestly think all of the sketchy Trump stuff that doesn’t seem to come from anywhere (e.g. not on Fox News that morning) comes from like the 5 FBI dudes in New York who leak all the stuff to Giuliani and think they know everything but really don’t and are frequently wrong… same people Spicer was pushing to Nunes a month ago – https://www.axios.com/exclusive-spicer-arranged-sat-in-on-cia-gop-intelligence-push-back-2288082248.html … I think Comey not-so-discretely was talking about this faction when he was talking about where leaks come from in his testimony, and he’s also pissed at them for (in his opinion) forcing his hand on the Clinton and Weiner announcements.
JPL
It appears that the free market approach has some problems. NYTimes link
Kay
Thanks, Obama. The most popular part of Obamacare is the most liberal part of Obamacare. Republican governors love Medicaid now.
When we have a Democratic President back they should do “Medicaid for all”. Conservatives can screw around with it and run their failing experiments at the state level but the basic national frame could go in.
JPL
@SFAW: uhoh.. I love when Warren talks about specific bills, and why she supports or opposes them, but in general, she’s not my favorite.
zach
@SFAW:
Note that I proposed that Dems lift the filibuster only AFTER testimony and are free to renege are their side of the deal if it’s justified… only lose if testimony proves without a doubt Trump campaign’s hands are clean.
Edit: Agree it’s totally impractical and would never be agreed to; it’s an empty offer that sounds reasonable and puts GOP on defense more than complaining about Garland.
Elizabelle
@Kay: Great points, Kay.
SFAW
@germy:
If Carter really wanted to twist the knife, he should have included something like “.. and he would have grabbed them, but someone — either Steve Bannon or Prime Minister Abe — pointed out that his hands were too small to do an adequate job of grabbing.”
hovercraft
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Number eleventy million of all the reasons Tweety should be ignored, once in a while like a blind squirrel he finds a nut, but for the most part a total waste of airtime. Given the line up on MSNBC* these days though he’s not worse than the others. Actually the fat that he’s considered a democrat makes him worse, as least the others are obviously Fox-lite. he gives liberals a bad name.
* Does not count primetime or Joy.
@muddy:
Perhaps you should inform her that yes she is scolding people, republicans who are trying to destroy peoples lives.
@Mnemosyne:
I think that’s the problem ,he thinks he won, but the numbers show he won on a technicality. He wants/wanted a clean win and didn’t get one and now he’s trying to get us all to believe him not our lying eyes. I love that it’s eating away at him.
SFAW
@zach:
Still no.
Make Turtle kill the filibuster without helping him in any way. And Turtle has already done worse to the Constitution, so I doubt he’ll lose any sleep over it.
MJS
@Corner Stone: Why, so one or two of those stories can be proven wrong, and Trump’s claims of “media dishonesty” can get legs? Or so CNNs, MSNBC, etc. has an excuse to spend their time debunking false negative stories about Trump, instead of covering real negative stories about Trump?
pamelabrown53
@Kay: #131.
The Russians want 2 things, one is monetary and one isn’t. 1) They want sanctions lifted and 2) they want to destabilize Western liberal democracies. On second thought, the reason they want to destabilize Western liberal democracies by exposing them as hypocrites is to foster the takeover by Russian oligarchs/mafia. So, scratch my first sentence. It’s all about money and Russian supremacy as the Supreme Oligarchic/Mafia via right wing ethno-nationalism is the vehicle.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Challenge accepted.
@MomSense: Fenugreek is awesome and easy to grow. Much more flavorful than spinach. Sometimes, I can get fenugreek bunches at the Turkish grocery store in my neighborhood. I will saute the leaves with onions and a few spices, add some tiny shrimp and lemon juice. Delicious!
SFAW
@JPL:
Whatever. She probably has some e-mails on a private server somewhere, too.
If only … her voice weren’t so … unpleasant. And if only … she didn’t get in the face of those moderate Republicans and non-lefty Dems. And if only she didn’t speak like a law professor. And if only …. etc.
muddy
@SFAW: Indeed. One day when I was saying how much of the school budget went to special ed (I found it disproportionate per students served), she started yelling and nearly crying because she has a big house and a lot of property and has to pay a lot of property tax – but yet she thought the local school sucks so she had to pay for private school for her kids, so she got fucked twice!
I’m sitting there wondering how someone can have big nice property, kids went to private schools, and after all that is still wealthy, really got fucked? I’m poor and she had just given me $100, so I kept it buttoned and figured I just got $100 to keep my mouth shut. Would have liked to make that deal in advance instead of after the fact, but beggars etc. It’s possible giving me the $ was what made her feel oppressed in the first place, but I hadn’t asked for it, it was offered. But yeah, she thinks she is very very liberal. She gives a lot to charity etc, but the attitude… but she knows just how it is to be poor, because she was poor in graduate school. 50 years ago.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I just… I mean… how the fuck are we losing to these people
Corner Stone
@MJS: They would be impossible to be “proven” wrong. And the fucking media spent days reporting on Podesta’s risotto recipe. They aren’t exactly doing their job as is.
Anything that beclowns Trump is a net positive.
Look at what Trump just made Nunes pull out of his shine box in an attempt to be “vindicated” for the completely false lie that Trump is tripling and quadrupling down on.
Mnemosyne
@hovercraft:
And the problem with a narcissist is that, as far as he’s concerned, he really did get that clean win, and any evidence to the contrary is just more proof of how everyone is against him and how he’s been right the whole time.
There is no way to win against a narcissist. None. The only way to win is to refuse to play the game. They will destroy everything and everyone around them before they will admit to a fault or mistake.
muddy
@Baud: I will play all the games with you, dude.
MomSense
@schrodingers_cat:
I just soak the seeds overnight in enough water to cover and then plant them in some potting mix the next day.
Elizabelle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Does he not get to touch or love anyone with breasts?
Would he deny his daughters good medical care? What a buffoon. Of course he’s from Kansas.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: Fenugreek, you say. Hmmmm.
schrodingers_cat
@muddy: I agree with your sister. Perez makes the same points without wagging his finger at you.
bemused
@muddy:
Just curious. Has she ever said that about a male Dem? Harry Reid is first to come to my mind but I know I have heard a lot of scolding from Dem guys over the years and decades.
MJS
@Corner Stone: Let’s leave the lying to Trump, lest we find all of his lies washed away in a tidal wave of “both sides do it.” And while I agree the media isn’t much of a help, some elements of it are starting to sit up and take notice. Don’t give them an excuse to revert to form.
schrodingers_cat
@bemused: Well he is not a Dem, but St Sanders of Vt, has the same malady in a much more severe form than Warren. Plus, he is shouty.
Barbara
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He does know that men can get breast cancer, doesn’t he? Not in numbers that would make an annual mammogram sensible, but in numbers that do result in men being referred for mammograms because a lump has been detected.
bemused
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Oh wow. What an ass. I’d bet he doesn’t even know men get breast cancer too. Not that I’d actually hope he got breast cancer but I sure would like him to have a scare and undergo having his man boobs crunched flat in a vise.
catclub
@hovercraft:
If they lose today in the House, he will probably harp on about illegal votes.
Corner Stone
@MJS: That horse you’re riding has a spot of dirt on it. Otherwise.
hovercraft
@catclub:
TPM livewire
Quinnipiac Poll: Majority Of Voters Oppose GOP Health Care Bill
American voters oppose the GOP health care bill by a three-to-one margin, according to a Quinnipiac poll released Thursday.
The poll found that 56 percent of respondents opposed the American Health Care Act, compared to only 17 percent who supported the bill. Twenty-six percent did not know or had no answer.
Released the same day that the House is expected to vote on the bill, the poll showed voters’ unease about efforts to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act.
The poll also found that respondents disapproved of President Donald Trump’s handling of health care as an issue: 61 percent disapproved, compared to 29 percent who approved and 10 percent who did not know or had no answer.
Yes, yes I know, FAKE POLL !!!!
Major Major Major Major
@muddy: @schrodingers_cat: I mostly just don’t find her to be an engaging speaker. Saint Bernard though, he’s definitely a scold.
bemused
@schrodingers_cat:
Yes he could be called a scold but he doesn’t.
I’m sure I could find fresh fenugreek in Mpls/St Paul area but I live almost four hours north. Couldn’t find any in Duluth, MN so I was thinking of growing from seed but haven’t located a seed company sells the seeds.
burnspbesq
@The Moar You Know:
You must not listen to “Morning Edition” on NPR. Steve Inskeep is Quisling No. 1.
muddy
@bemused: No. She has bad things to say, but never that they are scoldy. I was actually surprised, it wasn’t like “Warren is great, but I don’t like her speaking style” it was “I don’t like her, she’s always scolding.”
muddy
@muddy: Couldn’t edit for some reason. Anyway, she has never liked Bernie, altho as a Vermonter has voted for him for ages. She doesn’t say he’s scoldy, or grumpy or shouty, just that he wants a lot of programs that can’t/shouldn’t be paid for so he is a silly person.
burnspbesq
@Yarrow:
Who he hires will give a clue to his strategy. If he hires Williams & Connoly or Jones Day, it means he’s planning to fight. Any of the big NY or LA firms (all of which have DC offices), he’s likely to deal.
schrodingers_cat
@bemused: I have had luck with the fenugreek seeds sold in Indian grocery stores.
Immanentize
@SFAW: will all republicans vote to get rid of the filibuster? Probably, but maybe not.
Major Major Major Major
@Immanentize: Honestly, my money is on ‘probably not’.
Immanentize
@burnspbesq: ah, Mr. Cokie Roberts. Of course he is.
bemused
@muddy:
Kind of scratching my head. Then again, I had a few scolding authoritarian female teachers decades ago I’ve never forgotten but they were just bitches that lived to nastily order kids around. There’s a difference in my mind.
MomSense
@bemused: @schrodingers_cat:
I use the seeds from the Indian grocery store. They look a bit like pea gravel.
bemused
@schrodingers_cat:
Guess I’ll skip the idea this year because doubt I’ll get to the cities in the next few months from the boonies. Mpls/St Paul is very diverse and has many different ethnic grocery stores. Makes me wish, just on food and restaurants alone, that we had more immigrant population here.
bemused
@MomSense:
Hmm, maybe I will look a little more online for the seeds.
muddy
@bemused: She’s a professor too, maybe she was jealous Warren got a better score on RateMyProfessor. ;-)
Bitter Scribe
Woodward apparently has always been an asshole.
Years ago, a reporter from the Chicago Tribune spotted him in a restaurant. She went up to him and asked for an interview. He went ballistic, ranting that she was “eavesdropping” on him and threatening to get her fired, even calling her up afterward to yell at her.
Bitter Scribe
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: We’re losing to them because they’re against ni-clangs. That’s it. No other reason.
schrodingers_cat
@bemused: You can order online too, from Walmart no less.
SFAW
@Immanentize:
I usually lose sports bets, so no predictions. But I’m hoping Major x4 (comment right after yours) is correct.
NR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, you’re finally asking the right questions, at least.
NR
@Bitter Scribe: And yet, these same people hated ni-clangs just as much back when Democrats were winning. With a black guy at the top of the ticket, no less.
Hmm.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NR: O, Dummy. Tell me again how Senate votes don’t really matter in legislation
shouldn’t Bernie have fixed things by now? He feeeeels things! Loudly! He really wants real reform! He has all the young people!
NR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Tell me again how votes are cast in stone and can never be changed. Tell me again how Democrats refusing to vote for what’s best for the country, instead of what’s best for their corporate donors, is something we should just meekly accept.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NR: You’re right. Blanche Lincoln would have totally voted for single payer if they had tried again. Maybe Bernie! could have yelled at her!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Is Bernie! gonna tell Mitch to look out his window? Then we’ll get Chomsky on the Supreme Court!
NR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You’re right. We should all be like you: good little sheep who meekly accept Democrats selling out the country for corporate cash. After all, that approach has worked so well that Republicans control all three branches of the federal government and two-thirds of state legislatures! Who can possibly argue with those results?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
thanks to you, Bernie, Cornel, Susan Sarandon and Jill Stein
Nice work! Stay pure, Li’l Comrade.
joel hanes
@The Moar You Know:
I didn’t either until last night.
We all know about General Smedley Butler and The 1933 Business Plot against FDR, right ?
The Republican sense of being the sole legitimate rulers of the United States has a very long history.
NR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Thanks to the Democratic establishment which has turned losing into an art form.
For all that you whine about “purity,” your “impure” candidates haven’t exactly been tearing it up at the polls, bro.
Chris T.
@Mnemosyne: Yeah, the problem is that Hilary is smart and competent, and—worst of all—lets it show.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NR: “Democratic Establishment”? Are you referring to the two term Democratic President, Barack Obama, Electoral vote winner Hillary Clinton (President but for Berniecrats stupid enough for Jill Stein), or Russ Feingold, currently the Bernie Sanders Professor of Self-Indulgent Sanctimony at University of Wisconsin-Backwater?
NR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Funny, I must have missed when she won the electoral vote.
And it was her own mistakes, along with those of the Democratic party establishment, that kept her out of the White House, not Berniecrats and Jill Stein. The fact that you’re trying to shift the blame from where it belongs is really sad.
But like I said, at least you’re asking the right questions now. That’s progress. Maybe you’ll figure out the answers someday. You’re behind a lot of other people on that, though.
DissidentFish
@bemused: If you have the “man boobs” you should examine them the same way women do. If there’s a lump, go to the doctor. Mammogram is not fun but not as bad for men as for women (fewer nerve endings) and male breast cancer kills more than it should — because men don’t self-examine.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NR: yeah, the answers you children have figured out is that we need a shouty, socialist atheist who vows (loudly!) to raise everyone’s taxes for their own good. That’ll put KS and WI back in the Dems’ column.
Still waiting for you to (try to) explain how and why Russ Feingold lost to Johnson and underperformed Establishment monster Hillary Clinton when what The People really want is Bernie!ism