I’ve had the suspicion for some time that even though the FBI may not be able to prove that Trump colluded with Russia himself, there’s an awful lot of evidence piling up that Page, Manafort, and Stone did. For example, Roger Stone has admitted to talking with Guccifer 2.0 (I know that I’m a McCarthyite red-baiter for stating these facts, of course). So I guess the plan will be to say that the people currently running Trump’s White House — Preibus, Bannon, Kushner etc. — had nothing do with it, and it was all the fault of a few marginal bad apple rogues:
“You had Sam Clovis, God bless him, who tried to put together an advisory group of people,” the official said. “Then you have the whole Manafort-Ukraine thing and Roger Stone running around doing whatever Roger Stone is doing.” He added, “This campaign, early on, had a lot of marginalia associated with it. Guys like Carter Page, Roger Stone. I have no earthly idea what those guys have been up to, right?”
[….]The White House official’s attempt to separate Trump from the “marginal” figures who once ran Trump’s campaign isn’t likely to work. Later in the day, Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary, echoed this spin publicly when he claimed that Manafort played a “limited role for a very limited amount of time” in the campaign. In fact, Manafort worked for Trump for six months last year, from March to August, the crucial period in which Trump secured the Republican nomination and fended off potential challenges at the G.O.P. Convention.
But the larger takeaway from the White House’s spin is that the top people around Trump may have no idea how much exposure the President has on the issue of Russian collusion.
I have no idea how much it will hurt Trump if it can be proved that Stone or Manafort or Page had some quid pro quo with the Ruskies. Chris Christie isn’t in jail for Bridgegate. But his approval rating sure is low.
Keith P.
Oh, man, that’s a winning headline.
socraticsilence
If he’s interested in what Manafort’s up to he could always ask his trophy wife to go down a few floors and knock on Paul’s door.
Even Manafort’s own children think he was still heavily involved.
Hunter Gathers
The Low-T Spark of the High Heeled Cucks
Patricia Kayden
I doubt any proven Trump-Russian links will damage Trump’s support among his hardcore followers. But this would be another indication that those of us who voted against him were right. He was the Manchurian Candidate and unfortunately is now in charge of our country for at least four years. I don’t see Republicans ever turning against him.
lollipopguild
@Hunter Gathers: Love your song title reference!
lollipopguild
Cue Glenn Campbell singing ” Rhinestone Cowboy”.
Mike J
@lollipopguild: I always preferred By the Time I Get to Minsk.
Roger Moore
There are two big questions that would determine how much damage those guys could do to Trump: are they willing to roll on him, and do they have documentary evidence.
Karmus
… Riding on Putin’s horse in a derp-spangled rodeo…
germy
Pierce is watching the Gorsuch hearings
Mike in DC
We don’t need his supporters to turn on him. We need our base fired up, the fence sitters off the fence, and the apathetic and complacent spurred to action. That wins elections.
SiubhanDuinne
@Keith P.:
Yeah, what Keith P. said. The post title is full of win and awesome.
***
Believe it or not, I had managed to forget the very existence of Reince Priebus over the past few weeks. Never hear or see him mentioned. I guess he’s keeping his head down; can’t believe he actually has much influence in the Trump White House, but given the ongoing crazy, maybe that’s a good thing (for him).
Mnemosyne
I’m feeling a little better with this cold today, but I’m blowing my nose so much that I can feel little bubbles coming up from the inner corner of my eye. Eeewwwww.
And that’s WITH taking the forbidden decongestant you have to show your driver’s license to get.
pk
If Stone is in any kind of jeopardy I can’t imagine that he’d not take everyone down with him. In fact I doubt if anyone is loyal to Trump. I expect them all to turn on each other.
Doug R
Manafort was hired BECAUSE of his Russian connections.
Mnemosyne
@Mike in DC:
It would be an extra bonus if his supporters stayed home and sulked in 2018. But, yes, this.
rikyrah
the title of this post was quite funny :)
rikyrah
Stone doesn’t believe in honor among thieves. NO WAY he falls on a sword for this crew.
Mnemosyne
@pk:
It may depend on what kind of defense lawyers the Mercers and Kochs are willing to hire for Trump’s administration figures.
Doug!
@Hunter Gathers:
I like it.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: Ginger tea is what you need. Add a black cardamom or two to increase its potency.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
I should have some ginger tea here at work. No cardamom, though.
Yarrow
Trump’s in with the Russians up to his eyeballs. He is going down. He will throw everyone under the bus before he goes because to be thrown out of office means losing and he can’t handle it. First pass will be to blame Manafort, Stone, Page, and anyone else he can. It won’t stop there.
Trump’s been in with the Russians since 1987. There’s plenty of evidence for those who look. And they’re looking now.
oldster
Doug, you’ve written some amazing headlines over the years, but this goes in the all-star hall of fame.
So about the Buffalo Buyout, Tammany Haul or whatever you want to call it:
I take this as evidence that our phone-calling and town-halling is working. These are Republican house members who went to the leadership and threatened to vote “no” unless they got very significant sweeteners.
Of course, my own local plague, Tom Reed, is so committed to Trump that he did not need bribing.
I called his office anyhow, to point out that this bone-headed gimmick is going to raise our NY State taxes, and slash Medicaid anyhow. If he really wanted to help Upstate, he would vote ‘no’ on the bill!
Did it do any good? Most days, I think it did not. But when I hear about other Upstate Republicans squealing like this, it gives me hope that they are feeling the pressure.
Jeffro
@germy: I’m watching the hearings too and Ted Cruz is still a douche
TenguPhule
@pk: Stone has an appointment with a cup of tea if he rolls. And he knows it. Putin has all the weasels by the short and curlies and when one has your testicles in hand, hearts and minds soon follow.
Doug!
@oldster:
I wonder if this was about getting Katko and Tenney on board or keeping Reed and Faso and others from jumping ship.
I’m impressed with Katko so far.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: Is that herbal tea. Or real black tea leaves infused with fresh ginger?
Immanentize
@Mike J: “I am a Bagman for the Commies“
? Martin
Remember that Manafort and Stone are long partners. They were both partners at Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly (BMSK), which was a lobbying firm dating back to when Reagan came into office. Lee Atwater later became a partner. They worked for any number of dictators back during the cold war. They were always a ‘win at all costs’ group with no particular loyalties to anyone other than who was signing their checks.
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
Yes, but I’m afraid he will set fire to half of the Republic is the process and the other half will start killing each other in Civil War II as the fascists and sane people figure out who will be in control afterwards.
We’re sliding down a path of no return because the Republicans have become complete traitors across the board at the national level. They would rather die then surrender power and face justice.
janeform
Anyone remember Johnny Carson decked out in a cowboy outfit, sitting on a white horse, singing Rhinestone Cowboy on the Tonight Show? It struck me as hilarious at the time.
TenguPhule
@Jeffro: Enema bag. Douches are the assholes on the good side.
liberal
@germy:
But this is the problem. After what they did to Garland, the Democrats still can’t mount real opposition? Fuck that.
encephalopath
It’s ALL about the money boys.
I suspect the FBI is carefully investigating Trump’s finances now including the last decade of tax returns with an eye to following Russian money and the tortuous path it has taken through island banks and Trump held properties.
Even if that money doesn’t prove to be directly connected to election shenanigans, Trump’s international business dealings with the Russians will turn out to be criminal in some way or other.
Yarrow
@TenguPhule:
I hope he just takes down half the Republicans instead. I don’t think civil war is inevitable. We’ll see, though.
Mike J
@Doug R:
Makes you wonder about Devine.
Yarrow
@encephalopath:
They certainly will.
tobie
@germy: Democratic Senators need to be reminded by their constituents to vote no on Gorsuch. They are weak-kneed and will filibuster only if there’s a big public outcry for that. I just called Cardin and Van Hollen and didn’t have the sense that either were being flooded with calls by irate Democrats wanting the party to show some spine.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@liberal: Please explain what they would do exactly given they don’t have the votes. I mean I get that we don’t want this motherfucker on the Court, but how does that happen. If the Dems filibuster, McConnell will nuke it and he’ll be on the court. The time to worry about this was last year during the election, but Hillary was too corrupt or something.
lollipopguild
@Immanentize: “Searching in the sun for another bag of dough”
TenguPhule
@Yarrow: When you have one side of the political divide demonstrate that nothing is out of bounds, not even honest to gods treason, democracy stops working. Its not even a matter of if, but when, unless somehow a bunch of Republicans find their souls now and work to have hearings, trials and executions of their own party members. We’re at the point where Cleek’s law reaches its natural conclusion and we’re not going to have disagreements, we’re going to have blood feuds.
Major Major Major Major
@liberal: they don’t want to filibuster him. It’s not fecklessness. They have insufficient interest.
LurkerNoLonger
@Doug!: I called Faso’s office today and said I wanted him to vote NO on AHCA. I’m not sure how much difference it made, but hopefully the realization that more than 90,000 of his constituents could lose their health care if it goes through does.
TenguPhule
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
Let him blow it up then. A stand needs to be made.
Yarrow
Example of Congressmembers being involved with the Russians is Nunes who owns a winery that has a Russian distributor that’s close to Putin. No wonder he’s so scared of what’s happening that he can’t remember what he’s said before:
germy
@LurkerNoLonger: Faso wrote an editorial a few years ago (during the W admin.) advocating for the privatization of Social Security. His logic? It’d be a good thing for Wall Street.
catclub
@Mike J:
pronounced Phoe-Minsk?
zhena gogolia
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
Thank you for giving the answer, I was too tired to type it.
ETA: Oh, and fuck Pierce.
Chet Murthy
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Two responses:
(1) when in recent memory has the filibuster actually helped the Dems? We’re always keepin’ our powder dry …..for -what-? The next SC nom they put up?
(2) The Rs are consistently the ones who break norms — and always to their advantage. We KNOW this norm (filibuster allowed for SC nom) is going to be broken. And in-between now and then, the Rs will use the filibuster (or threat) to stymie Dems. Why should we allow that?
We KNOW they wouldn’t hesitate to take down the filibuster, if there were a plug nickel in it for them. We should do it FIRST. If for no other reason, than to ensure that the Rs get the point: “no, we won’t roll over, you bastards”.
And yea, per @Major Major Major Major I’m quite convinced our lawmakers just don’t give enough of a shit.
ETA: I’m convinced by Scott Lemieux, who argues that the filibuster almost-invariably benefits slave-power sens and conservatives. There’s no good reason for liberals to support it. So sure, if we can filibuster Gorsuckthis, yeah, great. If we blow up the filibuster, that’s gravy.
janeform
@TenguPhule: Agree 100%. Dems need to filibuster because 1) they have to make it clear that the Rethugs stole the seat, that it was unprecedented and erodes our democracy; and 2) they look weak if they don’t, and nobody likes that. Sure, Gorsuch will get on the court. Dems have to make a stink anyway. Their strategy has been wrong from the start, when Schumer didn’t come out day 1 and say we will not vote yes on a Rethug nominee unless it is Merrick Garland, period.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: Bernie bro says what?
randy khan
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
If McConnell is going to nuke the filibuster, he’s going to do it the first time he needs to do it to get someone through. If the Dems roll on Gorsuch, they won’t get any credit that will prevent McConnell from doing it the next time. So there’s really not much to lose here by standing firm.
The Moar You Know
@liberal: The Democratic response to McConnell’s blocking of the Garland nomination is the most shameful thing I’ve ever seen a political party do in my lifetime. They threw up their hands and assumed Hillary would save the day.
Nothing to be done now, because they surrendered (not lost, surrendered) last year.
ETA: however, a filibuster must be done. No question.
@Mike J: I don’t wonder at all. The answer is as clear as a branding iron to the face.
germy
@schrodingers_cat: Pierce gave a sort of endorsement, in the end:
Turgidson
@tobie:
I have a feeling that the public’s anger and attention is focused on health care and Russia, to the at least partial exclusion of the Gorsuch hearings. Heck, I’m an attorney and pretty up to date on SCOTUS affairs and I nearly forgot the hearings were starting yesterday.
If I had to pick, gun to my head, which fiasco I’d prefer to stop, I’d probably prefer to stop TrumpCare to avert the almost immediate immiseration of tens of millions of people. But Gorsuch voting for Heritage Foundation and Kochtopus atrocities for the next 30 years may eventually catch up in the needless suffering Olympics if liberals don’t claim a majority on that court any time soon.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: Lukewarm at best.
rikyrah
Republicans can’t defend their health care bill on the merits
03/21/17 03:39 PM—UPDATED 03/21/17 03:52 PM
By Steve Benen
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) issued a warning to his Republican colleagues today, arguing that GOP lawmakers must support the party’s health care plan because Republicans made a “commitment” to voters to repeal the Affordable Care Act.
He didn’t talk about the bill’s merits, or what he believes it would do to help Americans, but rather, McConnell’s focus was on the political calculus. It’s a classic example of a logical fallacy:
1. We have to do something.
2. This bill is something.
3. We therefore have to pass this bill.
Similarly, Donald Trump was in Louisville last night, headlining a campaign-style rally, where he touted his party’s health care bill, again without actually describing any of its effects of purported benefits. Politico reported that the president is “increasingly talking about health care like the vegetables of his agenda – the thing he must begrudgingly finish in order to get to what he really wants: tax cuts, trade deals and infrastructure.”
NBC News reported that Trump took a similar message to congressional Republicans this morning on Capitol Hill.
I suppose this is an antiquated, perhaps even naive, way of looking at legislation, but Republicans have effectively abandoned the pretense that the merits of their ideas are important. Note that GOP leaders aren’t even bothering to say anything like, “We have to pass this bill because of the wonderful results it will produce for American families.”
Instead the arguments are explicitly political/electoral: Republicans have to pass this so that they can pass tax cuts; they have to pass this to avoid looking bad; they have to pass this to save face; they have to pass this to honor amorphous “commitments” made on the campaign trail.
It is, in other words, a post-policy posture, treating the substance of an idea as an afterthought, falling short of GOP leaders’ list of priorities.
Immanentize
@lollipopguild: nice!
schrodingers_cat
@The Moar You Know: Garland was not liberal enough for the purity pony contingent IIRC.
cranky
Look at Kansas. What do you see? A populace that is invested in believing its fairy tale, at all costs. When do they give up? It’s Monty Python, still a flesh wound.
There is a long, long way, and a lot of suffering that people will endure, to hold onto their beliefs. They have been fed a diet of red meat for decades … Mexicans, NAFTA, Mooslems, welfare queens, brown people, death panels, evil government.
They know who will save them. They believe. And they will keep trying it till the shit is beat out of them, and it gets to soup lines. And there is a lot of slack in the system, before we come to soup lines.
And only soup lines will force a recheck of their beliefs. And that also is a maybe, because there is the long list of enemies that can be blamed for soup lines too – blacks, browns, Jews, bankers, China, ISIS, free trade…
It will get a lot, lot worse before it gets better. Next election, many elections, will test the mettle of liberals beliefs and convictions. Will you keep going on and on, or try to save yourself?
The billionaires have been at it for decades to get here, because a bunch of assholes with lot of dough can indulge in their fantasies. The question for Americans is – why cant Russia get rid of it’s oligarchs, and what will you do different to avoid that fate?
rikyrah
Why are Republicans Spending Time Defending Michael Flynn?
by Martin Longman March 20, 2017 12:29 PM
……………………………….
So, I just want to provide a bit of a casual observation right now. The Republicans are keen to distract from the Russian angle to this investigation by complaining that Michael Flynn’s name was divulged to the public as someone who was in contact with the Russian ambassador. The way they are arguing this is that the identity of U.S. citizens who are incidentally captured by electronic surveillance on foreign targets is supposed to be masked or protected from dissemination.
There’s no doubt that the fact that Flynn was in contact with the Russian ambassador was widely disseminated within the Obama administration and that it leaked fairly quickly to the press. Both could be crimes, it’s true. But this is predicated on two things. The first is that Flynn was not the target of surveillance. That is not assured since he clearly was a subject of a counterintelligence investigation that began in the early summer of 2016. The second assumption is that the fact the incoming National Security Advisor was colluding with the Soviet ambassador to undercut current U.S. national security policy was not something of the utmost concern to our intelligence agencies and policy makers.
Under the circumstances, and given Flynn’s subsequent firing and the disclosure that he was richly compensated by Russian entities for relatively little work, and the fact he was working at the time as an agent of a foreign power (Turkey) and did not disclose that, it’s curious that the Republicans want to put so much focus on defending him.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
Herbal tea. I’m at work, I can’t get fresh ginger right now.
germy
@schrodingers_cat: I agree, it was lukewarm.
What happens in 2020? The cheeto event has to be a wakeup call to all the fence sitters. They can’t fold their arms and complain that the porridge isn’t just so anymore.
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah: Putin has the goods on them too.
Turgidson
@germy:
Pierce was relatively fair to HRC, and if I remember correctly Bernie came in for some derision later in the campaign, when he was in denial about having lost and throwing all the mud he could get his hands on in HRC’s direction hoping for a miracle. Pierce never banged the “corrupt!GoldmanSachs!NoOnTPP!” drums in BernieBro fashion – he pointed out his annoyance that HRC made those speeches in the first place, and he is not a fan of TPP, taking his cues from Liz Warren, but he didn’t go into unhinged blowhard mode about it. HRC obviously wasn’t his first choice for a nominee, but he wasn’t a douche about it.
geg6
@Mike J:
I’ve never wondered about that. I was convinced from the first time I read about the guy back during the primaries that he served exactly the same purpose on Wilmer’s campaign as Manafort did on Dolt 45’s.
Nothing I have seen since has convinced me that I was wrong. Quite the contrary.
germy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/new-documents-say-trump-aide-hid-payments-from-pro-moscow-ukraine-party/2017/03/21/92ec85f2-0e11-11e7-9d5a-a83e627dc120_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_manafort-545a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.90c2dc84e12b
schrodingers_cat
@germy: I think some of them at heart are as racist as T supporters. However that does not compute with their own mental image. Hence the cognitive dissonance of never finding Democratic policies that are good enough.
Brachiator
@Doug!: Great headline title
If you haven’t used it already, I give you “Tea for the Tillerson” for future use.
Major Major Major Major
@Turgidson:
Not if that excerpt (which squares with what I remember from him) is any indication. “So, in the end, I guess I’m with her” is the most lackluster Hillary endorsement I’ve heard since the one Bernie himself gave.
Unrelated: My CNN alert app tells me that the market indeces went kerplunk and closed down over 1% today, the biggest drop of the “Trump era”, which I guess is what we’re in.
geg6
By the way, Doug, title is brilliant. In your top ten, at least.
Turgidson
@germy:
Plenty of them can and will. But hopefully enough of them grow the fuck up and vote for the Democrat even if his or her shit doesn’t smell like wildflowers.
The Moar You Know
@germy: You’ve got to be kidding me. This is when they are happiest; on the losing end.
germy
@Major Major Major Major:
Back in the 1920s “Abbie’s Irish Rose” was a Broadway play everyone loved to hate, even though it seemed to never close. Theater critic Robert Benchley wrote capsule reviews until he ran out of insults, and then invited various celebrities to weigh in. Harpo Marx gave his endorsement: “No worse than a bad cold.”
geg6
@Major Major Major Major:
He was a big Wilmer fan for pretty much the entire primary (and for months before they even began). I had to quit reading him for a while because he pissed me off so much. It was all he could do to type up that lackluster “endorsement.”
germy
@The Moar You Know:
“I Can’t Stand Up For Falling Down”
Turgidson
@Major Major Major Major:
He wasn’t a cheerleader or surrogate. But he didn’t deal in the hyped up bullshit about the Foundation, the emails, or any of the other bullshit the BernieBros and then the GOP were vomiting up and the MSM was dutifully reporting as “casting shadows” or creating “dark clouds for her campaign.” And he was clear throughout that she was the only sane choice against a GOP gone mad. Not a ringing endorsement, no. But certainly not the demented dipshittery we were getting from all angles during that wretched campaign.
schrodingers_cat
@Turgidson: What about DWS and DNC, did he accuse them of keeping the one true savior from winning?
Major Major Major Major
@Turgidson: “certainly not demented dipshittery” is about as much an endorsement of Pierce’s HRC coverage as “I guess” is an endorsement of HRC.
zhena gogolia
Yes, the post title is truly brilliant. Can’t stop laughing.
Turgidson
@schrodingers_cat:
Not that I recall. He has criticized DWS for being a bungler plenty of times, but that seems like fair game even if you’re not a BernieWasRobbed conspiracy theorist.
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
But unfortunately now I have that tune in my head.
les
@Turgidson:
Multitasking. It’s a thing.
tobie
@germy: Support for Garland was so tepid it hardly moved the thermometer. Democratic Senators may have failed to fight for his nomination but the party, as in its voters, didn’t fight for it at all, and the lions of the left from VT and MA treated his nomination with a big, fat “Meh.” So much blame to go around here. Pierce bears some, too.
Roger Moore
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
At the very least, they should refuse to roll over. There’s no point in keeping the filibuster in place if they’re always going to chicken out an refuse to use it when push comes to shove. Instead, force McConnell to nuke it, take whatever bad press there is for doing so, and not have to worry about it the next time a Democratic president appoints a Supreme Court justice with fewer than 60 Democratic Senators.
zhena gogolia
@tobie:
Right. The Dem congresspeople took their cue from the voters. The voters were waiting around for Hillary to win, so they did too. I remember wondering, “why isn’t everyone running around with their hair on fire over this outrage?”
zhena gogolia
@tobie:
And remember that the first thing Hillary was supposed to do was throw Garland under the bus and nominate someone more lefty?
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Those same people are spreading a message of doom and gloom now.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: They like losing.
Yarrow
@Mnemosyne: Just be careful and don’t overdo. Some of the viruses going around right now are pretty virulent. Everyone I know who has been sick has ended up with it settling in their chest and some have even had bronchitis.
It’s worth getting the fresh ginger if you can. It has great anti-inflammatory properties. It’s easy to put ginger and garlic in chicken soup for a triple whammy of good stuff when you have a cold.
jl
Trump refloated his sketchy real estate business after one (of his many) bankruptcies that almost wiped him out on dirty Russian and former Soviet Union money. He’s been swimming a sea of sketchy financial operators for years.
As for news today, the very idea of a hearing on the vicious nutcase Drumpf nominated to the Supreme Court disgusts me. I might have to take a break from live, or recorded clips of, audiovisual news and read about it later. I’m glad DiFi is coming out strong against this guy. She finally paid attention to one of my friendly and helpful constituent communications. I’ll send her thanks and friendly encouragement. Something along the lines of ‘listen you old crook, if you talk tough and then wimp out like you usually do, I’m going to…” OK, I’ll have to work on the wording a little.
Edit: My instructions to DiFi were to do everything possible to block that punk, and insist on a more centrist candidate. And I sent them as constituent instructions, a G-damn order or I was gong on a holy war against her whole wing of the Democratic Party.
danielx
@Yarrow:
Hey, Page and Stone are common names. Could be total coincidence.
LurkerNoLonger
@germy: Dick. (Him. Not you.)
rikyrah
Why the Intelligence Community Was Focused on Michael Flynn
by Martin Longman March 20, 2017 4:17 PM
Back in November, when President-elect Trump announced his intention to make Michael Flynn his national security adviser, I called it a catastrophic pick and, citing a May/June article by Michael Crowley in Politico Magazine, I noted that a senior Obama administration had said about Flynn that “It’s not usually to America’s benefit when our intelligence officers—current or former—seek refuge in Moscow.” In the same article, Crowley referred to Flynn’s attendance at the December 10, 2015 10-year anniversary gala for RT, the Russians’ state-propaganda news network (and his subsequent employment at RT), as “perhaps the most intriguing example of how the Russians have gone about recruiting disaffected members of that establishment…”
The idea that Michael Flynn, who had recently served as the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, may have been “recruited” by the Russians was certainly of keen interest to the intelligence community. This was clear from anonymous quotes that came out at the time: “He was that close to a despot, an enemy to the U.S., at an event for the Russian government’s propaganda arm,” a senior U.S. intelligence official said at the time about Flynn’s attendance at the RT celebration.” Even what Michael Flynn was doing in the open was considered a potential crime, due to Flynn’s security clearances and his responsibilities as a retired officer of the U.S. military.
Goku
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Simple. Murder Gorsuch.
What? It’s an option.
Brachiator
@tobie:
The Republicans had the numbers to keep the Garland nomination blocked.
Not seeing the point in spreading blame around.
Patricia Kayden
@Yarrow: Hope you’re right that the right people with power are looking into Trump’s ties to Russia and that charges will be filed. That would be such a blessing.
? Martin
@Turgidson:
I will take a very unpopular, longer term view: The shock doctrine works both ways. Yes, it has lately been used to push through hostile legislation in the wake of 9/11, etc. but post-WWII it was used to cement single-payer healthcare across Europe, broad social safety nets, democracy in some places, and so on. I don’t want people to suffer, but if people vote for suffering, then I would argue that instead of duct taping the house together, let it fall apart and argue to build a new house. The public has been unwilling to take on radical change even if what they have is of minimal utility. Even for things like mandatory maternity leave, which costs zero dollars externally and would lower productivity (thereby generating some demand for jobs), we are afraid. Clearly things need to get worse before the public is willing to show up in town halls and vote in midterms. Let it get worse. Let the public get a full Trump presidency. It’s the only way they’re going to demand a real change.
Yarrow
@tobie:
Yep. If Democratic voters had burned up the phone lines and had protests in support of Garland then Dem Senators and President Obama would have made a much bigger deal of it. Didn’t happen and gave the Republicans all the room they needed to pretend that no one could vote on a Supreme Court nominee in the last year of a president’s term.
Chet Murthy
@Turgidson: I gotta agree with the General on this. I was reading Charlie religiously during the campaign(s), and sure, he was pro-Bernie, until Bernie conceded. And never ventured into the fever swamps. And he was quite clear that it was our patriotic duty to elect Hillary.
Which should have been enough, b/c y’know, we’re all supposed to be patriotic Americans, not just crybaby purity ponies.
I’m good with Charlie and his history.
Turgidson
@Major Major Major Major:
My point was that his criticism of her and apprehensiveness of her candidacy was generally reality-based and understandable. I don’t think he can be accused of being one of the instigators of the Never Hillary stupidity. He certainly was/is not her biggest fan, but that doesn’t make him a Bernie or Bust hack either.
Chet Murthy
@tobie: Uh …
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a43463/supreme-court-nomination-solution/
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a47579/senate-republicans-garland-trump/
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a43072/merrick-garland-supreme-court/
Major Major Major Major
@? Martin:
We’re not afraid, we’re assholes.
Like Vonnegut said: The good earth–we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap and lazy.
@Turgidson: Yeah, he was mostly grounded in reality and the long and short of it is I didn’t care for his opinion on that, and makes me question his judgment on other things.
gene108
@liberal:
Democrats can filibuster…
And then Republicans nuke the filibuster for SCOTUS appointments…
Trump nominates Gorsuck again…
And scene…
Republicans are in a strong position for the next two years, but we have to make sure it remains only two years.
bystander
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: I felt that way when I read the quote from Pierce. What do people think they’re going to do? Scream and cry? They are doing what they can. They’re putting Gorsuch on record and they’re tainting his tenure.
Pierce turned me off during the election and I haven’t really needed to look back.
Steeplejack (tablet)
Why isn’t Chris Christie in jail? Or at least on trial. Can somebody tell me the current status of Bridgegate? Or has it been forgotten in the wake of all the succeeding scandals? Because apparently we can handle only one thing at a time.
Chet Murthy
@gene108:
Yes, that’s the goal! To make them nuke it, so that they can never use it again! That’s the -point-! Make them break that norm, and get NOTHING for it! B/c it’s not like keeping that norm will get US anything!
bystander
@Goku: You should meet TengUPhule. He gets a lot more detailed than you.
@Brachiator: Yep. Just like now. Schumer is not going to throw himself on the floor and start kicking and screaming. He would if he thought he’d get his way (and it were covered on the major networks).
hovercraft
@Steeplejack (tablet):
Judge Rules Bridgegate Complaint Against Gov. Christie Can Proceed
February 16, 2017 6:19 PM
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/02/16/bridgegate-civilian-complaint-ruling/
NEWARK, N.J. (CBSNewYork/AP) — A New Jersey judge has ruled that a criminal complaint against Gov. Chris Christie over the Bridgegate scandal can go forward.
Applause erupted in the courtroom when Municipal Court Judge Roy McGeady announced his ruling Thursday. McGeady ruled that there was probable cause to believe Christie knew the lane closures on the George Washington Bridge in September 2013 were not for a routine traffic study.
As CBS2’s Hazel Sanchez reported, Christie from day one has denied any wrongdoing in the 2013 Bridgegate scandal. Nevertheless, McGeady ruled that the case should go forward.
Christie spokesman Brian Murray said McGeady violated the governor’s constitutional rights and ignored an earlier decision that finding probable cause was flawed.
In October, McGeady ruled there was probable cause for retired Teaneck firefighter William Brennan’s misconduct complaint against Christie to proceed, but a higher court judge disagreed and sent it back to be reconsidered.
Last month, Bergen County prosecutors announced they would not be pressing charges against the governor.
“The judge is violating the law, pure and simple,” Murray said. “This concocted claim was investigated for three months by the Bergen County Prosecutor’s Office, which summarily dismissed it, after concluding that the very same evidence relied upon again by this judge was utter nonsense. That is exactly what it is. The law requires this judge to have done the same. This is a complete non-event.”
William Brennan legal victory. NJ citizen brought case ..judge rules @GovChristie probable cause of misconduct in #bridgegate #1010wins pic.twitter.com/OozyA82ujM
— glenn schuck (@glennschuck) February 16, 2017
Brennan snapped back at Murray’s remarks.
“A non-event?” Brennan said. “The summons was issued for the governor of the State of New Jersey because a judge found the probable cause existed to believe he committed a second-degree crime.”
Brennan, who is a Democratic candidate for New Jersey governor, claimed in his civilian complaint that Christie knew about, but did nothing to stop the politically-motivated effort to cause gridlock on the George Washington Bridge. The alleged purpose of the lane closures was an act of political retribution against Fort Lee Mayor Mark Sokolich, who didn’t endorse Christie’s re-election bid.
Redshift
@Yarrow:
Sorry, that seems like complete bullshit to me. No one gave Republicans “room”; it’s not like they waited to see the response before they started with the BS excuses for not having a vote, they did it immediately. And a perfectly normal Supreme Court nomination isn’t something that anyone would expect voters to “burn up the phone lines” about, precisely because ignoring the nomination was unprecedented in American history.
gene108
@? Martin:
When things are really bad, unless you have a super charismatic candidate like Obama, in 2008, people will usually sit on their asses and not vote.
“Why bother to vote, because my vote won’t make things better”, when times are good and you really think that mindset is going to be improved, when things are bad?
I don’t.
sukabi
@cranky: soup lines? There ain’t gonna be no soup lines. No meals on wheels, no school lunch programs, no help of any kind.
A Ghost to Most
“There’s a smell of treason in the air”
– Douglas Brinkley
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack (tablet):
He’s busy dumping on the National Weather Service and comparing them to political pollsters unfavorably.
Goku
@bystander: I’m aware. It’s just one possibility. Not one I’d try first. Is TenguPhule the new Villago Delenda Est?
Steeplejack (tablet)
@hovercraft, @zhena gogolia:
Thanks. And ugh.
marcopolo
This is for the Missouri folks: I just spoke with McCaskill’s office, and she has not yet taken a position on the SCOTUS vote. I told the person on the other end of the phone that while I understood that Gorsuch would be confirmed one way or another that it was important to me that all the D’s take a stand for Garland and the lack of respect that the R’s gave Obama; that they should force the R’s to nuke the filibuster since there is no point in pretending it serves any kind of purpose if in reality it does not.
Please call her local or DC office now and make your voice heard.
And yes, she does line up with my positions on the AHCA (no vote) and requiring a special prosecutor/ select committee on the Russian involvement in the election.
Yarrow
@Redshift: Sure, it was unprecedented, but lack of opposition gave them plenty of room to keep going about it. Had there been significant push back against what they were doing, they might have at least thought about doing their fucking jobs.
Just like the strong protests at town halls and busy phone lines in offices are getting Republican MoC to at least pay attention to the fact that constituents will be hurt by the healthcare bill, a similar sort of response to their nonsense about Garland might have helped.
Republicans break rules and norms all the time. The Democrats are not united in pushing back, nor do they seem to have a consistent message. Garland’s nomination was stymied by Dems feeling confident that Hillary would win so why fight that battle, plus people on the leftier side thinking she would nominate someone less centrist. Letting the Republicans get away with their “no votes during last year of president’s term” crap was a mistake. The push back should have been forceful and persistent. Instead many Dems seemed to think, “Oh well. Once Hillary is elected we’ll get someone even better.”
Lesson: Never give the Republicans an inch. They’ll shit all over everything for the next seven hundred miles.
Gravenstone
@Mnemosyne: It’s a synthetic building block for home brewing meth.
Mike in DC
@gene108:
Nuking the scotus filibuster gives Dems a basis for nuking the legislative filibuster when they regain control of the Senate.
JPL
@Yarrow: No shit.
? Martin
@gene108: I’m not saying it happens organically, I’m saying that you need to seize that moment when it comes. Clearly the Dems are bad at doing so, but if the Dems want real change, that’s what they need to do. And a charismatic leader isn’t necessary, but I agree it does help a lot. Mostly it needs to be a clear, thought out plan, and not something cobbled together on the fly and/or sold by a leader that is unable to convey the benefits to users. More than anything, it needs to feel empowering. Democrats are good at that for minority interests, but terrible at it for majority interests.
MCA1
@bystander: I don’t disagree. I do, however, think that a symbolic show would be worthwhile, despite the fact that they can’t do anything to stop Gorsuch from being confirmed.
Some in the public are just now waking up to the depth of party over country in the GOP. Pointing back to L’Affaire Garland helps with spreading that truth, plus taints him and the Republicans going forward. On the other hand, anything looking at all like grudging acceptance normalizes the quiet Constitutional crisis McConnell fomented, and got away with because no one could be bothered to pay attention even to that outrageous a thing, when there was a crazed, bepelted oompa loompa running loose on the campaign trail.
I want Franken or someone to say “I have just two questions, and assuming you answer each of them in the negative, I’ll yield the remainder of my time after shaming you for the professional discourtesy you’ve shown in so greedily accepting stolen goods, and noting that under no circumstances will I do anything but filibuster your nomination going forward. Is your name Merrick Garland? Do you intend to hire Merrick Garland as your chief clerk and allow him to make all decisions on your behalf while sitting as a Justice of the Supreme Court?” And then have 34 other Democratic Senators get up after him and ask the same two questions. Then the rest of them can make wisecracks at McConnell’s expense using his quotes about the last year of a presidency being no time to be considering Supreme Court nominations.
efgoldman
@Mike J:
Given how he fucked over the Democratic party, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings at all
Mnemosyne
@Yarrow:
Thanks, I’m trying to be careful, both with not overdoing it and not infecting my coworkers. My desk smells like Happy Hour because I’m putting on hand sanitizer every time I blow my nose.
Major Major Major Major
@Gravenstone: Of course, real cookers just use the blue stuff.
@efgoldman: Wasn’t he Gore 2000 and Kerry 2004? Not exactly an out-of-nowhere hiring decision.
sherparick
@cranky: I do think that we only have to shift 5% to 7% of the electorate. Just having better turn outs of our voters at mid-terms and presidential elections would help. There was a a 58% turn out 2008 and 54.9 and 55.3% in 2012 and 2016 respectively. That 3% could have made the difference in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. The Republican Party and its Donor Class (I would guess a group of about 1,000 to 2,000 super rich people, headed by the Koch brothers) will do ever thing necessary to defend Trump to get their tax cuts and through and destruction of the Affordable Care Act, Medicare, and the Non-Defense, Non-Law Enforcement side of the budget de-funded. Then they will get a couple of Federalist Society judges onto the Supreme Court like Gorsuch to put the Government back to 1859 if they can. Treason, misery for millions, destruction of culture and society, the threat of war, or nothing if these greedheads can get their tax cuts. The only thing stopping them is their own incompetence and the vanity of some of the morons have breathed to much of the BS they are constantly selling.
Baud
@MCA1:
I tend to agree. I suppose there is a case to be made that the Dems should make the GOP blow up the filibuster first with respect to an unpopular piece of legislation rather than with Gorsuch. But I’m having trouble seeing how that is more likely to be of benefit.
efgoldman
@TenguPhule:
Nobody’s going to get executed for financial crimes ir fraud. Do try to keep your blood lust in check, sport. It’s not funny, it’s not realistic, and it sidetracks us from the real issues. Maybe you can find a nice snuff DVD or the outtakes from Halloween 1074.
Yarrow
@Mnemosyne: That’s nice of you! If you have any shared things–phones, filing cabinet handles, whatever–wipe them with alcohol swabs if you have any. Those things can be big germ vectors.
Baud
@? Martin:
I really don’t know how we appeal to “majority interests” without throwing someone under bus.
Matt McIrvin
@Mike in DC: Don’t worry, I’m already seeing the liberal base getting fired up to attack the Democratic Party.
Mnemosyne
@Gravenstone:
Yes, I know that. And it doesn’t do all that much for my congestion, either, but it’s better than nothing.
TenguPhule
@efgoldman: high treason and espionage are death penalty eligible.
And if the GOP are running a pedophile ring, most of their states have the death penalty for serious sex crimes.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin: Saw an article about Cenk yesterday that was about that thing exactly.
sukabi
Schumer says no vote on Ghoulash until they get answers on Russia
MCA1
@Yarrow: Nothing any Democrat said or did would have been enough to overcome the calculus of the GOP, who knew that they would not be punished for this no matter what, and no matter how strong a show Democrats put up about it. There have been no electorally negative ramifications to a good goddamned thing they’ve done in the last 15 years, and this was no different.
That doesn’t mean just putting up with it was a good option. And there was pushback – there was a lot of talk about exactly the phrase you used: “Do your job.” No one was listening, though, so I tend to think a tantrum was in order. Documenting this atrocity a little better would have been nice. I wish President Obama, with his approval ratings starting to soar, had basically stopped doing anything except demanding that Garland be installed. No bills signed, no regulations approved, no funding for anything until his Supreme Court nominee got a hearing and a vote. Daily press conferences about his SC nominee and unprecedented Republican obstruction. Even that wouldn’t have stopped McConnell and Co., since they knew that there wouldn’t be enough anger in the electorate over something like that to swing all the centrist state seats they were trying to hold, and they could always have retreated and just voted no if the pressure got too intense. But that sort of gesture, however futile, would have cut through the focus on Drumpf and shone a clear light on Republican shenanigans for everyone to file away for future reference.
prob50
@Major Major Major Major:
Thru the Looking Glass...
HAH!
Just checking my yahoo email account and I find this headline:
From the article*…
Shorter Spicer: Well… it depends on whether the boss stays on his meds and we can keep him away from his Twitter machine…
I recall Trump saying something a couple of weeks ago about ‘some very interesting items’ coming out soon…
is this not siilar to his comments about Obama’s birth certificate?
I’d love to play poker w/ this twit… he’d be going in bigly on every hand, no matter what he held… and he’d never drop out of a pot… no matter how badly he was clearly beaten….
*link goes to Yahoo…
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Oh Cenk. So useless.
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
Well yes, that is the nature of the Democratic Party. Its not organized. Its a loose coalition of various interest groups nominally interested in a common cause but in complete disagreement over which strategy to use to get there.
Which is why the nation could stand to exterminate the Republican Party, we’d still have a 2 party system of Democrats vs Democrats.
Goku
@efgoldman: Playing Devil’s Advocates, they don’t necessarily have to be executed legally by government authorities…
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Useless would be an upgrade. I wouldn’t be surprised to find some rubles in his pocket.
Gravenstone
@Major Major Major Major: Blue stuff? Sildenafil? I don’t see a simple route (or even a complex one) to meth from there.
TenguPhule
Also screw Gorsuch for refusing to be honest on Roe vs. Wade.
The vile fcker isn’t even pretending to honor precedent.
TenguPhule
@efgoldman:
So Polly Anna, explain to me again how our Republic is supposed to work with a corrupt party controlling all three branches of government, no moral qualms about fixing elections or killing American citizens and in servitude to Russia?
sukabi
@TenguPhule: actually he is following the lead of Drumpf cabinet confirmation hearings as 99% of them lied their asses off and still got confirmed.
Chet Murthy
@sukabi: Ghoulash? Uhn-unh. Gorsuckthis.
Good on Schumer!
efgoldman
@tobie:
There was, unfortunately, no way in hell under the senate rules to force Yertle McTurtle to hold hearings nor send the nomination to the floor.
And I really doubt the Dems, even if Harry Reid hammered it every day, could have shamed or otherwise “persuaded” red state senators to force Yertle to take action.
The assumption that HRC was going to coast to victory, and bring the senate with her, didn’t help
Ruviana
@Gravenstone: Blue stuff is a reference to a recent television series.
prob50
@Brachiator:
The Dems were remiss in failing to roll out The Magical Unicorn. If properly employed it surely would have saved the day
Major Major Major Major
@Gravenstone: Somebody’s behind on their prestige television.
No Drought No More
Roughly the same number of years separate the (republican party) Teapot Dome scandal and the (republican party) Watergate scandal, as now separates Watergate and the (republican party) Trump-Russia scandal. The sordid impeachment of Bill Clinton was the result of a republican party plot, too, and the Iran-Contra scandal could have resulted in the impeachment of an entire republican administration. Finally, the infamous and successful 2003 Bush-Cheney plot to war warranted impeachment proceedings against that republican administration, too.
And yet today, the godless Russians(!) own the republican party’s collective ass. And democrats are bound by oath (if not by instinct) to get to the bottom of the story. Congressman Schiff spoke good and sensible words yesterday, too, both at the hearing and afterwards.
Is this a great country, or what?
efgoldman
@TenguPhule:
Nobody’s ever been prosecuted for treason in this country. It’s not going to start now. You need to maybe read what Adam and some of the lawyers have written here, and take care of your hard on a different way.
You have even a hint of a cite for that?
Go back to your violence p0rn. You’re not going to shoot anyone, there isn’t going to be a civil war or armed insurrection, you are full of shit and living in your fantasies. I doubt that you’re older than 16. Go the fuck away and let the grownups talk.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: I know the thread is dead but I have to say it. “Fuck Pierce”.
Another Scott
@Chet Murthy: I don’t know if “protecting” the filibuster for SCOTUS nominees is worth it or not.
But we should think about the timing. Supposedly (IIRC) McConnell didn’t nuke it at the start of the term because he wants the Democrats to have a chance to use it to save Obamacare (so that the Democrats can be blamed for not killing it). If they kill it for Gorsuch, then maybe it won’t be around to save them then. (But surely they can put in exceptions when they kill it…)
I dunno.
Holding up his confirmation by refusing Unanimous Consent and going through the various delays seems fine to me. It will hold up other business even if they can’t sustain it.
The thing we have to remember is if the Republicans burn their bridges, it will make it easier for the Democrats to expand the court in the future.
We should do what’s right. Delay his confirmation and vote no in Committee and on the floor. If they majority wants to kill the filibuster, it’s within their power and on them. They must own it, and we shouldn’t cower from using every tool available because of what they might or might not do.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Goku
@efgoldman: Don’t know about the Pedophile ring, but never say never. Trump got elected didn’t he?
EBT
@TenguPhule: Now is not the time to kill people. That time is when we next have a Dem president and they get to name the replacements.
3am
Probably like 90% here I dropped immediately to the bottom to comment “all time great post title”. Now back to the top to read it. Top notch, DougJ, I’m so glad you’re back.
columbusqueen
@efgoldman: It isn’t just Devine–Bernie’s refusal to release tax returns makes me wonder if there was more to hide than Jane’s ill-gotten gains from Burlington College. Private planes & Lake Champlain real estate don’t come cheap, after all.
Bill Arnold
@germy:
Saw that too. Wondering whether Manafort is in more or less danger if he turns. Stuff like this:
Magnitsky Family Lawyer ‘Thrown From Building’ (and this and etc) surely must worry him.
Just forwarding; haven’t done a dig on this; however unless unequivocally not true, it is the sort of thing that might worry Manafort. That and the other stories about dead Russians associated with the Trump/Russia connections graph.
DougJ
@3am:
Thanks!
westyny
@Major Major Major Major: Oh, certain quarters find him very useful . . .